/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20302790]

IT'S HAPPENING

>THE WINDS OF WINTER is going to be a big book. The way it is going, it could be bigger than A STORM OF STORMS or A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, the longest books in the series to date. I do usually cut and trim once I finish, but I need to finish first.

[Anonymous No.20302791]

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/04/29/random-bits-of-this-and-that/

[Anonymous No.20302829]

>>20302790
>oh yeah btw winds is gonna be big lol
I hate this fat fuck, but I hate myself more for actually getting exited when I read this absolute nothing statement.

[Anonymous No.20302873]

>>20302790
Eh. The ship already sailed. Nobody cares anymore. I'll just read a Dream of Spring just to know what went on

[Anonymous No.20302938]

>>20302873
>I'll just read a Dream of Spring
You won't, unless you jump into some parallel reality.

[Anonymous No.20302945]

>>20302873
I could see the release of WoW overshadowing the show, which may perhaps be why he waited so long to release it.

[Anonymous No.20302963]

>>20302790
>Book 7 will definitely come soon
>It is on it's way
>The book is coming! There'll be three--no, FIVE! FIVE major character deaths!
>But first, here's a 320,000 word novel about my dick

[Anonymous No.20303091]

>>20302963
>>20302790
More like The Winds of Wiener, amirite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wGeA_dHxBM

[Anonymous No.20303310]

>>20302963
I've always found this show classless. Never saw the appeal.

[Anonymous No.20303403]

>>20303310
That's all american humor

[Anonymous No.20303410]

>>20302790
Martin's characters have mono dimensional and random behavioral patterns, their actions are not prepared in the script, they delve into erratic petty politics and schemes to provoke and impress the reader in a world that dragons existed and exist and in a world that shadows kill people from afar and magical frost themed outsiders threaten the lands. How can that make sense? Why would you care about taxes and who your psychopath son will marry in his reign when there are priests who raise the dead and assassins who take whatever form they want in order to kill whomever they want, etc? This is an "art" that poses as pseudo realistic, but in truth is an undecided mix of high fantasy, medieval pseudo realism, porn, epic parody and Martin's personal complex about how cruel the world is. The problem with his art is, that it does not make sense and it does not have cohesion and a robust core like Tolkiens art did. He fails because he has not decided on what the core of his work is. Hell, he doesn't even have a main story. Oh, and by the way, he needs to lose the RR's from his middle name. It's embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.20303429]

>>20302790
So is ASOIAF also shit garbage that is just promoted because it appeals to subhumans, or is it actually good?

[Anonymous No.20303457]

>>20303310
South Park thinks that it's smart political commentary, and it's written by libertarians. Obviously it's going to be garbage.

[Anonymous No.20303481]

>>20303410
You've never read it.

[Anonymous No.20303511]

>>20303457
South Park is a lampoon of extremism.

[Anonymous No.20303568]

>>20303429
>or is it actually good?
It's Harry Potter for adults.

[Anonymous No.20303590]

>>20303310
>I've always found this show classless. Never saw the appeal.
>Never saw the appeal.
>found this show classless
> the appeal
> classless
There you go.

[Anonymous No.20303593]

>>20303511
Is it though? A lot of the time they "make fun of" fairly moderate positions like opposing climate change or opposing tobacco.

[Anonymous No.20303682]

I thought the books were mostly fine, except 4, which was shit. Who cares anymore? The show was garbage. Forget about it and find something else to read.

[Anonymous No.20303713]

>>20303682
Normie cringe

[Anonymous No.20303842]

>>20302790
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I'M-I'M-I'M GONNA FUCKIN REAAAAAAAD

[Anonymous No.20303857]

>>20302790
Two more years!

[Anonymous No.20303868]

>>20302790
>>20302791
Calm down, not seeing a release date here. I'm still expecting it to be released in about 2030, then GRRM will promptly die before the last book is done.

[Anonymous No.20303883]

> >THE WINDS OF WINTER is going to be a big book. The way it is going, it could be bigger than A STORM OF STORMS or A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, the longest books in the series to date. I do usually cut and trim once I finish, but I need to finish first.
This fat faggot literally just put this there to piss me off. ‘It’s gonna be long, I just gotta finish haha (sike!)’

[Anonymous No.20304040]

>>20303883
The fact that he knows it's going to be the biggest in the series implies that he wrote more pages than he did for the other books or he's about to. Either way, it implies he's close to finishing the book or at least the first draft before the trimming.

It's better news than "less is not none".

[Anonymous No.20304067]

>GRRM publishes WInds of Winter
>dies soon after
>Brandon Sanderson is hired to write Dream of Spring

Look in your heart. You know this will happen.

[Anonymous No.20304132]

>>20304067

I’ve heard opinions though that GoT has too much darkness in it for Sanderson; that he’d struggle to get into the characters in truly intense gruesome situations well enough. People had this criticism about his WoT books (I haven’t read them myself).

[Anonymous No.20304237]

>>20304132
Who knows, I have never read Sanderson, but the man can poop out books at a stupid rate and the publisher would probably just want to get the last book out as soon as possible.

[Anonymous No.20304455]

>>20304132
Sanderson said in a post on reddit that he won't finish the books and he doesn't think they'll ask him to.

[Anonymous No.20304472]

>>20302938
Just get interdimensional internet. Tons of cool stuff there.

[Anonymous No.20304486]

>>20302790
>but I need to finish first.
So in other words, nothing new to report.

>>20303429
>or is it actually good?
Not really. It's basically a pseudo-Medieval soap opera with a thin veneer of fantasy that goes in heavily on tits, violence and killing your favorite characters. Everyone plots and schemes and hurts others and fucks and has secrets, people die horribly, everyone's a bastard, people change allegiances and get stabbed in the back, there's blood magic and lots of revenge and people getting edgier, et cetera. If you're a genre lit fan into grittier books and don't expect anything more than to be moderately entertained then the first three or so books are worth checking out. The first four seasons of the HBO show are an exceptionally successful adaptation (mostly because of outstanding casting and production values) but then it stumbles for a bit before falling off of a cliff and expiring ungraciously at the bottom of said cliff after voiding its bowels all over itself.

[Anonymous No.20304513]

>>20303310
it's pretty funny because it just sort of goes after everything.

[Anonymous No.20304520]

>>20302938
He will die soon, a "suitable" amount of time will pass, and a ghost writer selected by his estate will finish the series, but >>20302873 is right, no one will care at that point

[Anonymous No.20304532]

This fat fuck is getting paid millions to write blog posts like this. Meanwhile I have a complete, finished novel, and I can't even get anyone to read it.

[Anonymous No.20304534]

>>20303429
It has its highs and lows. It's good as a drama where you can challenge yourself to read between the lines to figure out what's going to happen in the story. >>20304486 is kind of right, but the show stopped being good as soon as it stopped following the books as it caught up with them. The story has a good logic to it, where the shocking events aren't unbelievable, and some of them you should have seen coming a mile away. With almost 11 years since the last book was published, autists have more or less predicted what will happen in The Winds of Winter with what has since been set up.

>>20304067
>>20304237
>>20304455
This will never happen because one of the main points of ASOIAF is that religion is bad, and Sanderson is a pious mormon.

[Anonymous No.20304548]

>>20302790
ASOIAF books aren't even that long. 300,000 words is nothing when the reading level is middle school.

[Anonymous No.20304585]

George got a bunch of backlash for the "less is not none" blog so this is his way of assuring the fans that haven't given up on him that he's totally working on it guys, it's coming, he's gonna be done soon.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Anonymous No.20304627]

>>20302790
>I do usually cut and trim once I finish, but I need to finish first.
Editing and "trimming" is going to take over a year for Martin for a book like this and he hasn't even gotten to that stage. RIP ASOIAF

[Anonymous No.20304687]

>>20302790
Lost interest ten years ago

[Anonymous No.20305393]

>>20304040
He’s been saying it will be the biggest for years though. Just saying ‘btw guys, it will be big!’ is just more putting it off and saying that it won’t be done any time soon, or probably ever.

[Anonymous No.20305424]

>>20302790
>https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/04/29/random-bits-of-this-and-that/
Read some fucking Maurice Druon instead of supporting this harry poofter horseshit.

[Anonymous No.20305463]

>>20302790
I listened to all the audiobooks up to this point so I'll no doubt finish the rest if it ever comes out but I won't be happy about it. Plus he took so fucking long Dotrice died. Now they'll have some new cunt reading and it's gonna be worse and I'm gonna hate it.

The comfy grampa reads to you quality was half the enjoyment desu senpai.

[Anonymous No.20305469]

>>20303429
Go check it out from the library and see for yourself. Or don't. No one on earth really gives a shit.

[Anonymous No.20305482]

>>20304067
I mean I don't know how much a publisher could get away with but GRRM has said on more than one occasion that if he dies before the series is done he has left instructions to destroy all his notes and never, EVER let anyone write anything else set in his worlds.

He saw what happened to (Ring World?) after the author died, he doesn't want that happening to him.

Of course this was before the show.

[Anonymous No.20305483]

>>20305424
i have that same $40 bookshelf from walmart

i'm turning soi bros...

[Anonymous No.20305490]

>>20302790
As someone who unironically loves the books (get fucked) I could care less about anything he says until he says it's finished, edited, approved, and hitting shelves on <date>. Which I'm not expecting any time soon. In fact I'm not expecting it at all, much less for him to publish Spring before he has a massive heart attack.

[Anonymous No.20305524]

>>20305490
> As someone who unironically loves the books (get fucked)

[Anonymous No.20305655]

>>20305524

[Anonymous No.20305720]

>>20305463
Where can I find these audiobooks for free?

[Anonymous No.20305760]

>>20304532
Pay someone to edit it.

[Anonymous No.20305903]

>>20305463
i really liked dotrice, i just wish a director or someone taught him the fucking proper way to pronounce brienne and damphair.

harry lloyd would be great for TWoW. he did a great job for dunk and egg.

[Anonymous No.20306113]

>>20304067
>Arya struggles to contain her awesomeness

[Anonymous No.20306179]

>>20303410
You've never read it.

[Anonymous No.20306189]

>>20302790
>>20304040
This is the worst news possible short of him tragically passing or announcing flat-out that he's not going to finish.
Last time the book got too big he split it into more books. That's happened twice. There is no chance he will conclude the story in seven books.
His philosophy is to take the time he needs to make the story what it's supposed to be. He wants to finish in seven because it's a thematically appropriate number (he said this), but then he wanted to write a trilogy when he set out too. And he has now a decades-long history of failing to accurately estimate the scope of these novels.
The final book should be tentatively titled "A Dream of Conclusions" because at this point he's lying to himself and thinking magically if he believes A Dream of Spring will provide enough space for him to write everything he needs to.
He told us he won't sacrifice anything else he wants to do in order to finish the novels. He's actually said he feels sorry for people looking forward to them and expecting news. He has no attachment to it. He can justify to himself that the series had a conclusion in the form of the TV show, and now he's focusing on smaller projects he can assure himself he'll see through to the end. And he has no fear of the novels being concluded posthumously. So, everything is already concluded for him in a tidy manner. He will shuffle from this plane happy and with no regrets.
Either he can't admit it to himself and he's subliminally communicating that it's over, or he has developed a resentment for the fanbase after decades of (justified) complaints. Probably some of both, either way, it doesn't matter. It's over.

[Anonymous No.20306207]

>>20303429
It's kino.

[Anonymous No.20306629]

>>20306113
Arya isn't some badass unstoppable assassin in the books. Hell I don't even think she's a teenager yet.

[Anonymous No.20306672]

The decision to not include timeskip as was originally intended between Storm of swords and Feast/Dance killed both the latter books and series as a whole. It is blatantly clear that a lot of character (Bran, Arya, Dany, Sam,...) need time to complete their training/age up. Insted we need 4 chapters for minor character to travel from one place to another.
On the plus side show shat the bed so hard that whatever we get will look like masterpiece in comparison

[Anonymous No.20306818]

>>20305903
I liked how he pronounced Brienne and Petyr.

[Anonymous No.20307352]

>>20305424
instant panty dropper when you bring a girl into your flat for the first time.

[Anonymous No.20307404]

>>20302790
I give it another 2 years until it comes out

[Anonymous No.20307412]

>>20304472
Based and pink Kindle pilled

[Anonymous No.20307422]

>>20302790
>A STORM OF STORMS

[Anonymous No.20307424]

>>20303713
show me on the doll where he's wrong tho

[Anonymous No.20307458]

>>20303429
Depends on if you think like this >>20303410
guy, or if you understand the concept of a character drama.

[Anonymous No.20307470]

Well there goes my hopes that he had winds done and wasn't gunna release it until he had a good part of ADOS finished as well. At this rate neither will come out. Not to mention getting another dunk and egg novel

[Anonymous No.20307705]

Announcement next month it is done with a July or August release date. He did the same thing with Dance if I recall and it only took about three months for it to publish after announcing he was finished

[Anonymous No.20307748]

>>20303310
all adult cartoons are crass and childish

[Anonymous No.20308109]

>>20307470
Gurm has always been upfront about the fact that he won't write a single line for Dream until Winds is wrapped up and ready to be published, so why were you deluding yourself? Like the rest of us you should have been questioning whether he even still writes on Winds at all. God knows his repeated assurances haven't been worth a damn.

The main problem remains that he's too old and too rich and therefore has little incentive to make good on any of his promises instead of just enjoying his final years with booze and hookers. He keeps stringing his fans along because he enjoys having a fandom, but not enough to actually make an effort to give those fans what they desire.

[Anonymous No.20308176]

>>20303429
it's veritably middling and not really worth the time it takes to read
this website for some reason can only conceive of things as utter trash or pure kino, nothing in between

[Anonymous No.20308367]

>>20304534
>one of the main points of ASOIAF is that religion is bad
Untrue. To Martin's credit he's not an overt Fedora tipper in his writing. You might say one of the main assertions of ASOIAF is that religion is wrongheaded since the world he has created is implicitly atheist. Displays of (presumed) supernatural powers by religious people don't seem to have any actual connection to the divine, so it's all smoke and mirrors, and irreligious people can use supernatural powers just as well as priests. But this being the case Martin does not portray religion as bad per se. Religion is treated as more or less morally null one way or the other, as just another piece on the gameboard that has to be taken into consideration by the players at the top.

[Anonymous No.20309036]

>>20307422
worst title best book

[Anonymous No.20309049]

>>20308367
Ironically compared to today's fantasy asoiaf is fairly religious. Book 2 has almost a whole chapter dedicated to catelyn praying. Fantasy today won't even have their protagonists believe in any sort of religion despite religion existing.

[Anonymous No.20309173]

>>20302790
>A STORM OF STORMS or A DANCE WITH DRAGONS
If you had of said A DRAGON WITH DRAGONS, I would have kek'd.

[Anonymous No.20309200]

>>20302829
We're so battered and broken that simply having the author acknowledge that the book still exists and SOME work is being done on it is a momentous occasion.

[Anonymous No.20309217]

>>20308367
This. There are certainly prominent characters who are flippantly atheism in an almost immersion-breaking way (Tyrion is the big example), but there are also many that are sincerely and positively written as devout believers. It's also funny that there's been more than just a few times where an important character simply having genuine religious faith is enough to completely throw off multiple layers of machinations by far more pessimistic characters, like Cersei trying to bribe the High Sparrow, Jamie trying to get through to Lancel, etc.
Although actual divine revelation is not a necessary factor, it is Cat's praying in the sept in book 2 that allows her to understand their enemies and reframe her priorities. Although Melissandre does use some illusory tricks, she is still a genuine believer, not just an evil manipulator (as the show portrayed her), and at least some of her powers seem completely genuine. Same with Thoros, whose apparent blessing was the beginning of his genuine faith. Davos is one of the most likeable and down-to-earth characters, and he has been a devout believer from the very start of his POV. Many other examples.

[Anonymous No.20309349]

>>20304513
Not since they caved to the Muslims and agreed with CC to censor Mohammed. Haven’t respected them since. Fuck Matt and trey.

[Anonymous No.20309816]

>>20309349
They didn't agree to have him censored. The episode was literally making fun of it and they ran a literal shitpost of Osama and Bush shitting on the American flag to make fun of the idea of selective censorship. (He was also uncensored in an earlier episode).

[Anonymous No.20309969]

I understand why people keep making the Sanderson joke, but I just don't see it happening. What would he have to gain that he doesn't have now? He already has more money than he can spend, and is probably the fourth-most famous living American SFF writer today behind Martin, Meyer (*sigh*), and King. He's already sold twenty-million copies of his books.

If someone replaces Martin, which absolutely'll happen if he doesn't finish, it'll probably be Mark Rylance, or someone else who's been successful and reliable but hasn't reached Sanderson's stratospheric success.

I have to say though, unlike Patrick Rothfuss, Martin's at least verifiably written new series material since his last book came out. I can't abandon hope completely. Not even now.

[Anonymous No.20309988]

>>20303429
I read it around age 20 for the first time and found it kino.

Re-reading it currently and not finding it kino at all, but still quite entertaining.

[Anonymous No.20310047]

>>20303429
Great lore/world-building. Interesting overall plot. Middling (at best) characterization. Nothing interesting to speak of when it comes to tone/atmosphere. Extremely repetitive prose. It's long but it's an extremely quick read--there's no density to it at all.

There's a lot of mention of Martin's POV technique but it's complete bullshit; one character's chapter pretty much reads the same as any other (the actors brought a lot to the show but the books do the plot better). AFFC is interesting because Martin starts trying to build an idea of theme into his writing--but he isn't particularly good at it so I can't say it marks an improvement. Due to this, I have to agree with most people when they say there is a marked slip in quality after ASOS.

Martin's talent is in world-building and lore. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well for him ever completing the series--especially given that his other major talent is stress eating. It's worth a read if you want to just fuck off into plotfaggery or you find lore interesting to read (like a lot of autists do). Just don't expect anything heavy--it's the literary equivalent of a popcorn movie.

[Anonymous No.20310072]

>>20309200
It's gaslighting on another level

[Anonymous No.20310150]

>>20302790
>could be
didn’t he say that both of the last books were gonna be like 1500 or 1800 manuscript pages or something ridiculous? after all the time he’s taken, i would expect them to have 500 pages bare minimum on storm of swords/dance with dragons, let alone “could be bigger.”

[Anonymous No.20310483]

>>20309349
actual brainlet here

[Anonymous No.20310747]

>>20304486
I'm trying to reset my sleeping patterns and I need something to occupy myself so that I don't pass out. Thus, I present a pointless, autistic and far too long response to the usual midwit G.R.R. Martin citicisms. I do not expect anyone to read this shit.

>tits, violence
Good start. There are a lot of tits and violence. The former is worse than the latter. It's impressive how Martin manages to make every sex scene more uncomfortable than a description of a man having his head punched into a bloody paste.

>killing your favorite characters
'Favorite characters' is too subjective for me to refute, but we can use main character deaths as as a rough metric for the series' supposedly extreme death toll. There are 24 characters who have so far provided the POV for at least one chapter. This does not count prologues and epilogues, since the prologue and epilogue characters dying is a kind of running theme. Of the 24, non-logue, POV characters, 4 have died so far (assuming that Jon is not going to stay dead). Of these 4 characters, 2 (Arys Oakheart and Quentyn Martell) are hardly main characters (with only 5 chapters combined). Quentyn's plotline is a clear tragedy; he is sent on a quest he doesn't want to go on and sees it through to its doomed end just to avoid disappointing his dad who, to twist the knife even further, would probably have wanted him to return home anyway. Oakheart, on the other hand, suicide charges into an axe because he can't reconcile his knightly vows of chastity with his isatiable lust for swarthy, mediterranean pussy. Both characters are minor side-stories and their deaths are an appropriate end to their character arcs.
The remaining 2 POV deaths are what most people are referring to when they talk about major character deaths. I'll even add Robb Stark to the list despite him not being a POV character, since the Red Wedding is the 'shocking twist' that everyone loves to talk about. This gives us 3 major character deaths: Ned Stark, Catelyn Stark, and Robb Stark. Of the 3, Ned Stark is the only death that I would consider a real 'twist'. He has the most chapters (15, compared to Catelyn in second place with 11) and is one of the most morally pure and heroic characters in the series. However, Ned's death is what sets the entire political plot into motion and is the catalyst for the character development of all his children as well as Catelyn, although to a lesser extent. Thus his death, whilst arguably a shocking twist, has an obvious and necessary purpose in the plot.

1/?

[Anonymous No.20310824]

>>20310747
The deaths of Catelyn and Rob, and the Red Wedding in general, are another clear tragedy. Robb's story is twofold. One, it is a deconstruction of the young hero archetype, in which his ability to win battles is undone by his inability to deal with politics. Two, a tragedy in the classical sense of the word, in which the young, noble hero is undone by a single, fatal flaw and the cruel whims of fate. Catelyn's character arc is arguably even more depressing; a woman desperately trying and failing to save her loved ones. In both cases, the amount of things that have to fall into place for the Red Wedding to happen is immense. On a second read, the foreshadowing and slowly escalating sense of dread is very noticeable, but I'll spare you the high-school level literary analysis. It's enough to say that the Red Wedding is an intentional tragedy and not done just for the edgy shock value. Also, I should mentioned that Catelyn is technically not dead, though what she is now is really a separate character arc.
So, in conclusion, out of 24 POV characters we have 4 deaths, 1 of which is necessary to set the main plot into motion, and 3 of which are clear tragedies. Not all that impressive for a series infamous for killing off characters.


Other than the reputation for killing all of his characters, Martin's supposed 'nihilism' or 'edginess' is the other major criticism. For 'edginess', you would have to define what you mean by 'edgy'. If you simply mean graphic violence, then ASOIAF is no worse than other works of fiction. Bashing a babies head against a wall and then raping its mother with the brains still on your hands is pretty spicy, but it is no worse than some of the stuff Cormac McCarthy has written (though, admittedly, McCarthy is pretty edgy). Accusations of 'nihilism' are more interesting, though no less fucking stupid. The usual argument is that all the good characters get fucked over, all the bad characters succeed, and thus Martin is a nihilist who hates all morality. The problem with this is that it just isn't true. Ned Stark dies and we are supposed to take this as a sign that his honor was stupid. Meanwhile, Tywn Lannister is a Machiavellian genius who we should all admire. However, the memory of Ned Stark is enough to get the remaining loyalist Northmen to join up with Stannis and march hundreds of miles through a blizzard to save a girl who they believe to be his daughter. Meanwhile, Tywin gets a crossbow bolt through the balls whilst taking a shit because he just couldn't stop abusing his own son who, ironically, was the most like him out of all of his children. Then, once he's dead, his dynasty starts to fall apart because his other two children are completely dysfunctional and ruling through fear only works as long as you're alive to maintain that fear.

2/?

[Anonymous No.20310895]

>>20310824
If you want, we can even check off all the other 'evil' characters. Gregor Clegane dies slowly and in immense pain whilst being experimented on and is eventually brought back as a zombie. Roose Bolton is stuck in a castle filled with people who hate him and are plotting against him. Littlefinger still hasn't gotten over the fact that Catelyn wouldn't fuck him and is now trying to fuck her daughter instead; I'm sure teaching all his manipulation techniques to someone who has a good reason to hate him won't backfire. Ramsey is in the same position as his father and has the additional disadvantage of being a complete fucking mental degenerate who can't help provoking people. Cersei's character arc has just been one long line of 'I am a genius... Oh no!' and Jaime, if we count him as a villian, is being lured into a trap by zombie Catelyn.
As for the point about 'revenge', the character most obsessed with revenge is the aforementioned resurrected Catelyn, who is a undead shell of her former self leading a gang of outlaws who are also a shell of their former selves. Maybe Martin is trying to make a point there. I don't know.

>>20303410
While I'm at it, I might as well respond to this post as well.

The accusation of random behavioral patterns is hard to argue without specific examples and the torture-porn point has been addressed in my previous two posts, so that leaves the 'How does politics work with magic?' argument. The magic has been gone for centuries and is just beginning to re-emerge. The ice zombies are an ancient legend not taken seriously by anyone who doesn't live in the bum-fuck middle of nowhere, the birth of the dragons is treated as a miracle, the dead-resurrecting preist is a alcoholic non-believer who develops his powers out of nowhere and then has a resurgance of faith, and Melisandre nearly kills herself every time she tries any kind of significant spell. The shapeshifting assassins are thusfar unexplained but I would assume they follow the same general theme.The magic is vaugely defined, heavily ritualistic and is always a double-edged sword; revive someone too many times and they lose their sense of self, try and view the future and you get it wrong because it's all hazy bullshit. As for the statement 'why would anyone care about politics?', that's the whole point. The magic is returning and the political squabbles are going to be nothing in the face of the apocalypse. Just compare the titles of the first books, 'A Game of Thrones' and 'A Clash of Kings', to the next one, 'The Winds of Winter'. I mean, come on, this isn't exactly subtle.

[Anonymous No.20310980]

>>20310895
I appreciate your post anon

[Anonymous No.20310989]

>>20310895
Now, if I was asked if I had any criticisms of ASOIAF, and I wasn't incapable of understanding basic themes, there are few things I might point out. Number one is the prose. Martin's prose is sometimes good, mostly decent, and often bad. The classic is 'The more she drank, the more she shat...' but there is far, far more. I think the average /lit/ poster could re-write the whole series and do a better a job in terms of pure use of language. If you're used to literary fiction then Martin's writing might be a slog to get through. Also, for some reason, Martin is great at describing food and complete shit at describing sex.
The second problem is his complete fucking inability to stop introducing new characters and plotlines. I will accept that some of it was foreshadowed, but I can't imagine ever re-reading A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons with skipping at least some chapters. Everything other problem, is either minor or subjective, or at least more subjective than everything I've already mentioned. I like some characters better than others. I think there are places where he could have done more or should have done less. He aims for realism but sometimes makes mistakes, like having a character tire out from the weight of plate armor. He might go a little heavy on the character suffering but I think he is a Romantic at heart. The final book is called 'A Dream of Spring', which, once again, is not very subtle with its theme.

In conclusion, Martin's quality comes down to how much you give a shit about the characters and how much you can put up with his prose and constant introduction of new sub-plots. The edginess is overrated, the reputation for killing off characters is overated, and the accusations of nihilism are just people repeating the same old shit without understanding the themes, which are really not all that difficult to understand.

[Anonymous No.20311057]

>>20303410
Based and irrefutably true.

[Anonymous No.20311815]

>>20303410
All the magic is mostly gone from ASIOFs world and happens on the very fringes. People in it believe that things like Others are mostly myths like we believe Hydra and Minotaur is a myth.
Also tolkeins work has things like tom bombadil in it so its hardly more cohesive or coherent

[Anonymous No.20313385]

>>20308176
I mean, something is either worth your time, or it isn't. Come think of it, what would a truly mediocre book even be like? If it's something that one would read then clearly it would need to have some redeeming qualities.

[Anonymous No.20313594]

>>20313385
>Come think of it, what would a truly mediocre book even be like?

As you might expect I forget the name of the book, but I was reading a sci-fi novel off and on for about two weeks. Real back-of-the-toilet book. It was such a chore, but I kept grinding through because I started it and surely there is some twist or surprise or... Eventually I physically threw it away so I wouldn't keep forgetting how tedious the plot was and give it another go.

[Anonymous No.20314789]

>>20302873
I care.

[Anonymous No.20314843]

>>20303410
>Why would you care about taxes and who your psychopath son will marry in his reign
That's the most realistic part of the book, faggot. We could discover tomorrow that White Walkers are real in our world, and after an initial craziness people would settle back into their usual life.

[Anonymous No.20315163]

>>20304472
Okay, Reddit.

[Anonymous No.20315407]

>>20303429
middling but fun to read
page-turners have an intrinsic worth, having fun occasionally is good

[Anonymous No.20315780]

>>20305720
Do you know what a torrent is zoomzoom?
>>20305903
Damphair is a funny one because that's exactly how I would have pronounced it but no it's just damp hair. If GURM had written it as Damp-hair there wouldn't be any confusion.

[Anonymous No.20316584]

>>20313594
Yeah gene wolfe does that to most.

[Anonymous No.20316606]

>>20313594
That book just sounds just bad desu.

[Anonymous No.20316623]

>>20313385
>what would a truly mediocre book even be like?
Something that leaves you with absolutely NOTHING. Something that you just forget as soon as you've finished it.

Once I was reading a mediocre book, and I was halfway through before I realized that I had already read it a few years before. It was so worthless that I had forgotten virtually everything about it. (I only realized I had already read it because of the retarded plot twist.)

[Anonymous No.20316646]

>>20307470
>Retard thinks fat obese boomer who is now a millionaire will finish boring fantasy novel he wrote in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.20316650]

>>20302873
the second half of Winds will be DoS

[Anonymous No.20318084]

>>20308109
>Gurm has always been upfront
Lol said the scorpion. Lmao.

[Anonymous No.20318101]

>>20304520
He already told the story and how everything should go to a friend of his. Someone is already prepared to write both DoS and finish WoW if needed

[Anonymous No.20318109]

>>20307352
Maybe she has a exhibitionist kink but is too shy for the real deal

[Anonymous No.20318148]

>>20318084
If even the fat man, who has made countless false promises to his fans, just outright admits that he's not working on something, do you have any reason not to believe him?

[Anonymous No.20318894]

Reminder that this fucker has been sitting at the Citadel with Jaqen H'ghar since 2005 and that the maester conspiracy to eliminate magic from the world was introduced at the same time, yet we still know nothing about it.
Do we even know what the obsidian candles are supposed to do?

[Anonymous No.20318980]

>>20306629
She's somwhere around 12 i believe

[Anonymous No.20319034]

>>20310747
>Ned Stark is the only death that I would consider a real 'twist'.
I wouldn't call it a twist. The moment Robert dies his fate is sealed. It's only shocking because the typical reader can't fathom the good man main character being dishonoured and publicly executed.

[Anonymous No.20319097]

>>20310747
>reseting sleeping pattern
>autistic defence of usual midwit takes on GRRM
Holy shit are you me?

[Anonymous No.20319187]

>>20314843
Some people would undoubtedly try to collaborate to solve the problem too. Head in the sand shit is for peasants.

[Anonymous No.20319303]

>>20306629
Anon said "awesomeness" because that's a word Sanderson actually uses in one of his books to describe magical powers

[Anonymous No.20319616]

>>20306672
The timeskip would have forced martin into one book's worth of flashbacks. He chose the lesser of two evils

[Anonymous No.20320329]

>>20316606
Bad I'd remember. Terrible I'd have dropped instantly. I've read bad shit. No, this book was so painfully bland the only thing I remember about it is throwing it away in disgust because it was wasting my time.

[Anonymous No.20320335]

>>20318894
>Do we even know what the obsidian candles are supposed to do?

I believe they are highly suggested to be used for remote viewing, and it's a popular fan theory they allow physic communication, and it's possible they don't actually "do" anything but setting glass on fire is some kind of minor test of magical ability.

[Anonymous No.20320525]

>>20320335
Quaithe's dramatic line "the glass candles are burning" implies there's something more going on then long-distance communication. It sounds like they signify the awakening of an ancient power or something.

[Anonymous No.20321389]

>>20303457
>Libertarians
They turned into progressivists after becoming low-end Billionaires.

[Anonymous No.20321402]

>>20303429
It's entertaining and extremely palatable. I believe an overlooked contributor to its massive success are the short chapters and the pacing in general which seems almost algorithmically tailored to the average millenial's attention span.

[Anonymous No.20321550]

>>20321402
Gurm started writing ASOIAF after his stint in Hollywood and he's on record that he worked his experience writing for TV shows into his novels. That's how he learned how to get that pacing just right, those jews who taught him really do have it down to a science.

[Anonymous No.20321923]

>>20321402
most zoomers find it slow and boring

[Anonymous No.20321944]

>>20321402
the huge variety in POV characters also nearly guarantees that a reader will find at least one that they enjoy reading, even if they dislike some others.

[Anonymous No.20322293]

>>20310824
>undone by his inability to deal with politics.
He is undone by his honor, same as his father. He refuses to deflower Jayne and then abandon her, so he does the honorable thing, marries her, and this costs him everything.

[Anonymous No.20322300]

>>20310824
>Catelyn is technically not dead
Although everything that made her Catelyn Stark neé Tully is dead. Only the thirst for revenge remains.

[Anonymous No.20322314]

>>20310824
>Bashing a babies head against a wall and then raping its mother with the brains still on your hands is pretty spicy
The crucial point against the edginess critics here is that GURM never really describes the truly gruesome shit. We don't SEE it, we're simply told about it. They're almost always events narrated by some witness.

And even in the cases where we're right there and see it unfold, like in Robb's death, Martin is everything but edgy and bloody. All the opposite, sometimes his depictions are too vague. Robb's death is described simply as "and then Bolton thrust his longsword into his heart". That's it. No purple prose, no tearful last words, no descriptions of Robb's eyes finding his mother's in pain, etc. None of that shit.

So accusations of edginess and splatter are weird.

[Anonymous No.20322321]

>>20310895
>Littlefinger still hasn't gotten over the fact that Catelyn wouldn't fuck him
Stop right there. Littlefinger is actually convinced that he did deflower Catelyn, that night when he was an injured kid under the influence of the milk of the poppy, but it was actually Lysa that entered his bed and got deflowered.

[Anonymous No.20322364]

>>20310989
>for some reason, Martin is great at describing food and complete shit at describing sex.
"For some reason", kek. Are you serious? The guy hasn't been able to see his dick since the 70s, but he can find his mouth no problem.

[Anonymous No.20322375]

>>20320525
>>20320335
Yes, glass candles are implied to be used for surveillance. Marwyn knew Sam was coming thanks to them.

[Anonymous No.20322389]

>>20308109
>he won't write a single line for Dream until Winds is wrapped up
Why you gotta do me like this?

[Anonymous No.20322400]

>>20318894
>>20320335
>>20320525
>>20322375
There's a cool fan theory according to which many crucial events in the series were caused by some magic pratictioner using the glass candles' ability to not only communicate remotely, but to plant ideas into people's mind.

The most egregious example is Catelyn's decision to free Jaime, which is kinda out of character and forced, and happens soon after she looks at a glass candle.

[Anonymous No.20322404]

>>20322400
>happens soon after she looks at a glass candle.
Source?

[Anonymous No.20322409]

>>20322404
the book.

[Anonymous No.20322422]

>>20322409
funny funny man

[Anonymous No.20322449]

>>20322422
>>20322404
Ok, hold your cunts. I misremembered. I just checked the book (Clash) and Catelyn doesn't watch a glass candle, she watches the moon, appears to lose a lot of time (as if she was in a trance), and when she comes to her senses, she decides to free Jaime.

The theory is that Quaithe somehow influenced her actions, since the moon is often associated with her.