Was Guénon a Muslim?

[Anonymous No.20236453]

Was searching the archives and I found a good post:

Was Guénon a Muslim? No.

"What also surprised me a great deal was the regret that I had no biographical information about myself; this is something I have always formally opposed, and above all for a reason of principle, because, according to traditional doctrine, individualities count for nothing and must disappear entirely ... But, in spite of this, I am obliged at least to rectify erroneous assertions when they occur; For example, I cannot let it be said that I am "converted to Islam", because this way of presenting things is completely false; anyone who is aware of the essential unity of traditions is by this very fact "unconvertible" to anything, he is even the only one who is; but he can "settle down", if it is permitted to express himself in this way, in this or that tradition according to circumstances, and especially for reasons of an initiatory nature. I would like to add in this regard that my links with Islamic esoteric organizations are not something more or less recent as some people seem to think; in fact, they are almost 40 years old...".o
- Letter from René Guénon to A. Daniélou, August 27, 1947, my translation - i'm french and my English is bad so sorry if there are mistakes

Retarded Muslims who try to grab his glory must get out. Guénon was Sufi at the end of his life, for purely practical reasons: he already had links with Sufi organizations and he wanted to leave France. The closest and most convenient was the Maghreb.

99.99% of the Muslims who try to seize Guénon's genius by saying "he converted to Islam lol" are refuted by the master himself in this letter and probably never read him, because they would make apostate any Muslim having 1/10th of Guénon's beliefs. Some points of his belief in brief:

1. that all religions are currently valid to lead to God and that Islam is only the most practical path of our time for a European
2. that deliverance (union with the Absolute, death of the ego, al-fana' ) is superior to salvation (entry into paradise), the latter being there for the masses when deliverance is the way of the elites
3. that the world is a part of God and that there is an Absolute superior to the personal God.
4. that it is desirable to achieve supra-individual states through intiation
5. that there is an esoteric path that transcends religious divisions

The Sufi Islam of Guénon is: yes.

The exoteric Islam of 99.99% of the Muslims on earth: it's no, it's shit, and it's probably the worst exotericism still alive.

>Hopefully, this will stop the retarded speculations with regards to Guénon that are brought up here time and time again, in relation to his "conversion" to Islam — and whatever that line of speculation may entail.

[Anonymous No.20236489]

>>20236453

>“The Exoteric Islam Doesn't Interest Me More Than Any Other Religion. But The Mysticism Interests Me. It's Like Hinduism.— [Frithjof Schuon: Messenger Of The Perennialist Philosophy DVD]”

>Hence for Schuon, Vedanta was something like a key unlocking the very same truths found at the heart of Ṣūfism, truths only obscured by the limitations of Islamic theology. On this point he elaborated, “we take our stand on Shankaracharya [the founder of Advaita Vedanta], not on an Ibn ʿArabī; the latter we accept only insofar as we find in him something of the Vedanta” (Lipton 2018: 138).

>In line with nineteenth cenutry Orientalist and German Romanticist understandings of language family and race, Schuon believed that Ṣūfism suffered from a Semitic “subjectivism,” and hence it lacked the objectivity to “consistently discern the transcendent formlessness of essential truth from religious particularism,” while holding that the “Aryan metaphysics of Vedanta and Platonism” retained this objectivity (Lipton 2018: 122). In his work Le Soufisme: voile et quintessence (1980) Schuon summarises his perspective on this issue describing Aryans (Indians, Persians, and Europeans) as “above all metaphysicians and therefore logicians,” while characterising Semites (Jews and Arabs) as “a priori mystics and moralists,” and “subjectivists” (Schuon 2006 [1980]: 21).

I guess it seems Unanimous. The Muslims who come into these /trad/ threads should try to form some sort of response.

[Anonymous No.20236514]

>>20236489
>I guess it seems Unanimous. The Muslims who come into these /trad/ threads should try to form some sort of response.
That is if they disagree with both Schuon and Guénon on these particular subjects that is that exoteric Islam is Not superior to this or that other tradition.

I should also add hacks like Charles-André Giliswith their books like "La profanation d’Israel selon le Droit sacré" "THE PROFANATION OF ISRAËL IN THE LIGHT OF SACRED LAW" and these other sorts of authors who subordinate other traditions to Islam are counter-/trad/ and not worth the slightest respect.

[Anonymous No.20236519]

>>20236453
>I guess it seems Unanimous. The Muslims who come into these /trad/ threads should try to form some sort of response.
That is if they disagree with both Schuon and Guénon on these particular subjects.

I should also add hacks like Charles-André Giliswith their books like "La profanation d’Israel selon le Droit sacré" "THE PROFANATION OF ISRAËL IN THE LIGHT OF SACRED LAW" and these other sorts of authors who subordinate other traditions to Islam are counter-/trad/ and not worth the slightest respect.

[Anonymous No.20236571]

>>20236453
Guénon did not follow Sufi Islam. There was never such a thing as an esoteric Sufism that left the fold of Islam through doctrines like those Guénon held to, Sufism has always, by and large, adheared to Islamic orthodoxy and exclusivism, including figures like Ibn Arabi. Not so long ago, after all, Sufism was orthodoxy, even Ibn Taymiyya was not necessarily opposed to all forms of Sufism when he was writing.

[Anonymous No.20236613]

>>20236571
>Sufism has always, by and large, adheared to Islamic orthodoxy and exclusivism.
So then Guénon wad not Muslim Sufi or whatever else, you would probably say he was just a larping occultist initiated into a sufi brotherhood fullstop, and you are declaring Perennialism a heresy/incompatible with islam correct? I don't see why Muslims still say "he converted to Islam lol" as it is said in the OP post, I just made this thread to clear confusion, because I see some people say
>Guénon was retarded he *converted to Islam!
>Guénon *converted to Islam! Because it is the superior tradition etc. And nonsense like this, when "anyone who is aware of the essential unity of traditions is by this very fact "unconvertible" to anything."

[Anonymous No.20236640]

>>20236571
Anyway this thread should be cleaned up by the jannies kinda pointless in retrospect

[Anonymous No.20236654]

>>20236613
Correct.

[Anonymous No.20238120]

>HE WANT MUSLIM NOOOOO
Absolute cope from christcucks
His last word was Allah . Yeah literally not god of islam

[Anonymous No.20238246]

>>20236571
even Ibn Taymiyya was not necessarily opposed to all forms of Sufism when he was writing.
Ibn Taymiyyah actually praises Sufi. There’s a lovely quote of his saying some of them are the best of people, some of them are bad people and some of them are average people. Just like anybody else. He says the people considered heretical aren’t truly Sufi and have simply attached themselves to the name without any merit. Bin Baz was asked about this quoted and said he agreed with it.

[Anonymous No.20238330]

>>20236453
I couldn't care any less. It's Guénon who attached himself to Islam, not the other way around. Henry Corbin though–he converted to Twelver Shi'a Islam.

[Anonymous No.20238345]

He was muslim as in wanted Islam to conquer the world

[Anonymous No.20238350]

>>20236453
Exoteric Christianity is marginally worse than exoteric Islam.

[Anonymous No.20238416]

>>20238330
>Henry Corbin though–he converted to Twelver Shi'a Islam.
source? I thought he remained a Catholic his whole life

[Anonymous No.20238501]

>>20236571
Guenon basically wanted to find a nondualist tradition within all other religions as their core, because nondualist mysticism was what he considered real metaphysics and real mysticism.

This is easy enough with Vedanta, not least because Advaita Vedanta by Guenon's day had been reconstructed for over a century with reference to European platonist nondualism since the European colonizers took this to be the ultimate "pure" religion and Indian with education wanted to show that they had a "pure" religion too, and so they were a proud people alongside Europeans.

But it is harder to do with Sufism, the mystical dimensions of which were in particular decline by Guenon's time. Sufi orders were pretty degenerate. As with India, the modern Sufi revival owes a lot to Europeans studying Islam and saying "this is the pure form of Islam" or "look Islam has high level philosophy in it too," and then Muslims becoming proud and saying yes exactly so we are a great people too, equal to Europeans.

But Guenon was in Egypt before that had taken off. So he had to find the nondualist Platonism/Vedanta he wanted to find in a historically reconstructed Islam that nobody really practiced. He rebuked Schuon for not keeping up the exoteric externals of Islam but neither did he, since he would have denied that Muhammad's revelation from God was the unique and last revelation, and that the Quran is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Islam is primarily an exoteric faith and the exoteric elements are not "externals." It can have an internal aspect like any other revealed religion, you can do mysticism once you take the Torah or the Bible or the Quran as revelation, but mysticism it not necessary to be a Jew or Christian or Muslim, while taking the Torah/Bible/Quran as revelation is.

[Anonymous No.20238529]

>>20236453
White readers of Guenon:
>Very profound and unique insights, I will have to read some more of his books
Nonwhite readers of Guenon:
>PRAISE BE TO HOLY GUENON PEACE BE UPON HIM KRISHNA SPEAKS THROUGH THE ALMIGHTY WE ARE SAVED

[Anonymous No.20238555]

>>20238501
>This is easy enough with Vedanta, not least because Advaita Vedanta by Guenon's day had been reconstructed for over a century with reference to European platonist nondualism since the European colonizers took this to be the ultimate "pure" religion and Indian with education wanted to show that they had a "pure" religion too, and so they were a proud people alongside Europeans.
It was never "reconstructed" in India because it was never lost, Advaita is an continuous unbroken intellectual tradition, it was never a "lost" thing that had to be "reconstructed" by Indians under European help but in basically every single century since Shankara there were Advaitins composing texts in Sanskrit and referencing and citing the works of the previous generation of Advaitins.

[Anonymous No.20238578]

I find spending more than a few minutes on 4chan quickly undoes any higher state of consciousness I may have obtained. Although this may be a personal weakness, nevertheless the sort of rational-discursive thinking it usually entails is against the aims of spiritual practices.

[Anonymous No.20238765]

>>20238578
I relate to this

[Anonymous No.20238826]

>>20238555
wrong

[Anonymous No.20238862]

>>20238826
really well-made infographic
any idea where it's from?

[Anonymous No.20238877]

>>20238826
Nothing in that image (which is largely tenuous speculation) disproves the fact that Advaita is an unbroken continuous intellectual tradition from Shankara to today.

As far as before Shankara's time (which is what that image is concerned with, and which has nothing to do with between Shankara and right now) we don't know because very few prose writings from the pre-Christian era survive, but it's entirely possible. Shankara is the first major commentator on the Upanishads whose works survive to today, but he references earlier Advaitins like Gaudapada as well as even earlier ones like Dramidacarya etc.

[Anonymous No.20238932]

Why does Guenon say the kali yuga started around 6000 years ago and will end soon, and others pajeet wisemen say kali yuga is hundreds of thousands of years old and there will be mini golden ages in the kali yuga?

[Anonymous No.20238942]

>>20238862
It was made by the anti-guenonfag, real name P**** A******, he talks with a gay sounding lisp in real life and is balding. I know who he is but I won't expose him, even though he has stalked me for years.

[Anonymous No.20239013]

>>20238932
answer me you pajeets

[Anonymous No.20239053]

>>20238877
SPICY CURRY

[Anonymous No.20239105]

>>20238826
I don't get this image. Wasn't Guenon anti-buddhist and pro-advaita?

[Anonymous No.20239196]

>>20238877
You sound like Ivan

[Anonymous No.20239202]

>>20238416
>source? I thought he remained a Catholic his whole life

You're incredibly retarded and obviously never read a line of Corbin, no surprise from Guenonian zoom zooms.

>>20236571
Correct.

>>20236453
Guenon was a peak skim reader and used confirmation bias to claim that he saw crypto-Buddhism everywhere. It's really just unfalsifiable garbage. When the tradition outright refutes Shankaran Buddhism Guenon just says "No, Shankaran Buddhism is present just esoterically." It always has to be there, if it's not, it's just le esoteric and hidden.

The reality is Shankaran Buddhism is an incredibly overrated metaphysics that nobody really cares about. Guenon never set foot in India and acted like he knew everything about it. The same thing happened with Islam. When he arrived in Egypt he realized nobody cared about his ideas (he scolded them for being 'too westernized') and he didn't like the Sufi practices he found.

[Anonymous No.20239205]

>>20238578
Real.

[Anonymous No.20239211]

>>20239013
Dating and timeline of Kalyug can be a whole thread in itself. Go start one.

[Anonymous No.20239224]

>>20238932
Because he's a retard who syncretized a bunch of neo-Thomism conservatism with freemasonry and theosophism.

Guenon thought reincarnation wasn't real. He was nothing more than a vain and paranoid self-hating white man who held a very idealized vision of eastern religions. He hated academia for the sole reason that he failed to get into it and it would mean having to back up his claims with hard evidence, instead of waving away problems as "it's just esoteric, bro."

Guenonianism can only function if you disregard 90% of the tradition. His obsessive cult followers think this is a good thing,

[Anonymous No.20239230]

>>20238578
Guenonposter is on 4chan 24/7. Let that sink in. That's the fruit of Guenonian realization.

[Anonymous No.20239235]

>>20239211
You can't answer it because Guenon was talking about things he didn't understand.

[Anonymous No.20239239]

Not exactly on topic, but I was reading East and West, and in the second section about science, where Guenon talks about how the west uses the word science as an empty buzz word to hide behind...I had a sudden realization of how accurate it was. I kept hearing Anthony Fauci's voice in my head saying "trust the science". To this day we remain a nation of morons, easily controlled by anyone in power who would invoke the word science.

[Anonymous No.20239247]

>>20239230
All Guenon did was write about his philosophies too. Now get out dishonest person.

[Anonymous No.20239252]

>>20239196
>You sound like Ivan
Yes, because I have been arguing for Guenonian Traditionalism and the related promotion of Advaita all these years as part of a shadowy plot to advance the Putler Regime. Only reactionary mysticism can save zoomers from accepting atheistic wittgensteinian buddhistic trannyism. We have to stop globohomo here on the interwebs before it corrupts the last bastion of the white Christian race.

SLAVA ROSSIYA

[Anonymous No.20239256]

>>20239247
Guenonposter is on 4chan 24/7. Let that sink in, retard.

[Anonymous No.20239259]

>>20239252
>from accepting atheistic wittgensteinian buddhistic trannyism.

That's exactly Shankara though.

[Anonymous No.20239261]

>>20239256
>All Guenon did was write about his philosophies too. Now get out dishonest person.

[Anonymous No.20239268]

>>20239224
>Guenon thought reincarnation wasn't real
Because he correctly held that transmigration and not reincarnation was what the Hindu tradition actually teaches. I see through your deception, hylic

[Anonymous No.20239276]

>>20239259
>That's exactly Shankara though.
You have to be unimaginably stupid to think so. Use your brain for a moment, if that was true, would the Buddhists and skepticfags here seethe so much about Advaita? It's patently absurd.

[Anonymous No.20239287]

>>20239268
>Let me tell you about your culture: the white opium addict

[Anonymous No.20239289]

>>20239235
No I just want to see the same question answered.

[Anonymous No.20239292]

>>20239276
Buddhists don't think about Shankara. It's the other way around. Buddhism lives rent-free in Shankaran minds, as you can see with Guenon, who was refuted by Coomaraswamy and Marco Pallis on the question of Buddhism, and Guenon had to grudgingly make revisions to parts of his books, just like he did with parts of East and West after it was obvious he was writing about a land he had no idea about.

Don't trust a travel guide who's never been the country he's talking about.

[Anonymous No.20239297]

>>20238501
Damn, it sounds like Guenon was larping and didn't really know why or what he was actually doing.

[Anonymous No.20239299]

>>20236453
>Although both Guénon and Schuon believed that adherence to a religion’s exoteric morals and laws was a requirement to practice its esoteric path, and hence believed that genuine Ṣūfis should be committed Muslims, they tended to interpret Islamic thought through the lens of Hinduism’s Advaita Vedanta philosophy, which continued for them to be the hallmark of explicit metaphysical truth. Schuon in particular criticised conventional Islamic theology and devotion as overly moralistic in nature, in some cases inhibiting the realisation of pure metaphysics, and was comfortable integrating Christian and Indigenous religious symbols and practices into his order. However, both Guénon and Schuon held Ṣūfism and its Islamic form to be one of the most accessible means of Traditional initiation, and their writings on Ṣūfism and personal practice of Islam were paradigmatic for most Traditionalists who followed them, leading to the establishment of a Traditionalist Islam in Europe and North America.
>https://brill.com/view/book/9789004435544/BP000038.xml?
Wrong.

[Anonymous No.20239306]

>>20239202
>Guenon was a peak skim reader and used confirmation bias to claim that he saw crypto-Buddhism everywhere
This. He even framed Christ in Shankaran Buddhist / generic Hindu terms. He was just throwing exotic ideas together. Honestly, if he's supposed to be the best there ever was, this whole perennial mysticism just seems like a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.20239307]

>>20239297
He didn't. He spoke of Ibn Arabi as if he was identical to Shankara but Ibn Arabi refutes that position constantly.

Guenon would literally tell white Europeans to convert to Islam to become a Sufi like Ibn Arabi, but he had no idea what Ibn Arabi actually represented.

[Anonymous No.20239320]

>>20239292
>Guenon, who was refuted by Coomaraswamy and Marco Pallis on the question of Buddhism
Their """refutation""" consisted of pointing out that Buddha can be read as secretly agreeing with the Upanishads and Advaita in contrast to how the Buddhist tradition understands Buddha. In other words Coomaraswamy and Pallis pretended that Buddha was a crypto-Advaitin, and Guenon assented to this because in was in line with his reading of perennialism anyway. That doesn't really harm Guenon's thesis of perennial non-dualism but it just lumps another historical figure in as someone who can be subordinated to it.

[Anonymous No.20239331]

>>20239320
> Guenon was proven wrong about something he was adamant about, this isn't a bad thing

lol so he fucks up Ibn Arabi/Sufism and now he fucks up Buddhism but that's totally okay everything about him is sound and you should put your spiritual path in this man's hands

I think only covid karens are more retardedly dogmatic than you.

[Anonymous No.20239339]

>>20239320
Gueno was wrong, here's why it means Guenon is actually working

[Anonymous No.20239352]

>>20239331
>lol so he fucks up Ibn Arabi/Sufism and now he fucks up Buddhism but that's totally okay everything about him is sound and you should put your spiritual path in this man's hands
It's not really "fucking up", because the diluted spiritual paths are subordinated to Shankaran non-dualism, so telling people to become Sufis even when its sometimes a diluted approach (in some but not all cases) to the primordial metaphysical truth is better than having no tradition at all, just like joining the diluted/watered-down Vishishtadvaita is better than nothing at all and it still leads to the Brahmaloka where you can then reach moksha. Schuon noted that Shankara goes further than Ibn Arabi

>Hence for Schuon, Vedanta was something like a key unlocking the very same truths found at the heart of Ṣūfism, truths only obscured by the limitations of Islamic theology. On this point he elaborated, “we take our stand on Shankaracharya [the founder of Advaita Vedanta], not on an Ibn ʿArabī; the latter we accept only insofar as we find in him something of the Vedanta” (Lipton 2018: 138).
>In line with nineteenth cenutry Orientalist and German Romanticist understandings of language family and race, Schuon believed that Ṣūfism suffered from a Semitic “subjectivism,” and hence it lacked the objectivity to “consistently discern the transcendent formlessness of essential truth from religious particularism,” while holding that the “Aryan metaphysics of Vedanta and Platonism” retained this objectivity (Lipton 2018: 122). In his work Le Soufisme: voile et quintessence (1980) Schuon summarises his perspective on this issue describing Aryans (Indians, Persians, and Europeans) as “above all metaphysicians and therefore logicians,” while characterising Semites (Jews and Arabs) as “a priori mystics and moralists,” and “subjectivists” (Schuon 2006 [1980]: 21).

[Anonymous No.20239367]

>>20239287
Coomaraswamy was an Indian and he makes the exact same point about Guenon as them teaching transmigration and not reincarnation. AKC has a whole chapter on it in his book 'Perception of the Vedas'

[Anonymous No.20239375]

I love reading the Guenon sperging, I imagine you all as being seething indians or arabs.

[Anonymous No.20239381]

>>20239339
Truly, he was such a brilliant man, that even when he appears to be initially mistaken (Buddha was a hylic), it ends up actually confirming his original thesis (the primordial tradition is non-dualism, and it turns out Buddha was in on it too)

[Anonymous No.20239383]

>>20239224
post hand

[Anonymous No.20239393]

>>20236453
>it's shit,
Yes

>it's probably the worst exotericism still alive.
That's a stretch. Christianity is worse, pozzed garbage for feminine men and Guenon didn't like Christianity, or Buddhism for the most part. Christianity doesn't have any esoteric current within it, which he says himself. Hindus literally keep cows in their temples who shit all over the floor, they worship monkey/elephant gods and do all kinds of shit no european would ever accept to do or even believe. At least muslims keep their mosques clean. And taoism is inaccessible to us. So that leaves only finding within Islam a suitable sufi order.

[GuènonRapPoster No.20239408]

I got you stuck off the realness, we be the gnosis
You heard of us, official non-dual murderers
The Trads comes equipped for memetic warfare, beware
Of my autodidact family who got nuff tomes to share
For all of those, who wanna profile and pose
Retroactively refute your favorite philosopher, make you give on your role as their expositor
You all alone in these threads, hylic
Every man for they self on this board we be postin
And keep them shook pseuds running, like they supposed to
They spam pastas but they never come close to realization
I can see it inside your face, you're in the wrong thread and finna get an education
Buddhists like you just get they religion laced up
With retroactive refutations and such
Speak the wrong words man and you will get debunked
You can put your whole Guenonfag screencap collection against my team and
I guarantee you I'll be the very last one postin
Your modernist assumptions just don't move me, you're minor, we're major
You're all up in the debate and don't deserve to be a poster
Don't make me have to call your maya-based delusions out
Your theory is refuted, my Guenon (pbuh) quotes make you hesitate
I'm only eternal and unborn but my mind is old
And when the things get for real Brahman dawns in my heart removing the cold
Another Process philosopher destroyed, another story gets told
It ain't nothing really, hey, yo dun spark the opium
So I can get my mind off these duplicitous materialists
Why they still posting I don't know, go figure
Meanwhile back on the Guenonian discord the realness and foundation
If I attain fanāʾ I couldn't choose a better location
When Shankarcharya's arguments penetrate Buddhists feel a burning sensation
Getting closer to Allah (swt) in a tight situation
Now, take these words hylic and think it through
Or the next rhyme I write might be about you

[Anonymous No.20239410]

>>20239393
>Hindus literally keep cows in their temples who shit all over the floor, they worship monkey/elephant gods and do all kinds of shit no european would ever accept to do or even believe
They would never do it because so many of them have been turned into souless mammon-worshipping golems. When you are in touch with the divine, you behave like a saint towards nature, like Francis of Assisi

read Savitri Devi

[Anonymous No.20239411]

>>20239393
>Hindus literally keep cows in their temples who shit all over the floor
Based
>us
I would question whether or not you are white. Muslims today are for the most part retarded inbred peasants, worse than medieval times. Even the supposed upper castes molest little boys and put things in their asses. Or just look at the slums in Europe, these people are totally inferior. I have no interest in their plebian semitic cult. If you are a Westerner study the Hermetic-alchemical Tradition and search for a master, or get into an eastern thing I guess.

[Anonymous No.20239415]

>>20239408
>profaning Guenon with nigger shit
puke

[Anonymous No.20239433]

>>20239410
>read Savitri Devi
>hitler-worshipping schizo who married a pajeet
no thank you sir, you can keep your plebian semitic cult Saints as well

[Anonymous No.20239434]

>>20236453
>Was Guénon a Muslim?
Yes.
/thread

[Anonymous No.20239456]

>>20239433
>>hitler-worshipping schizo who married a pajeet
What she says in her books is often still largely on-point though, at least when she's not talking about esoteric Hitlerism

[Anonymous No.20239461]

>>20239410
>Francis of Assisi
How is talking about a dead Jew from the Levant to birds acting like a saint? It's more of a projection of one's narcissism and savior complex. Birds don't need Jewsus to be free.

[Anonymous No.20239481]

>>20239461
Okay, maybe he wasn't the best example and you can find better ones, but the original point still stands; there are countless saints, mystics, holy men etc who were known to care for animals or who advocated not harming animals and the environment or reducing the amount of unnecessary harm to them. Only someone who has been turned into a soulness mammon-worshipping NPC would react with revulsion at the notion of perceiving the divine as being expressed or reflected in nature and treating it accordingly.

[Anonymous No.20239485]

>>20236453
Post the link to Guenon's letter and we'll be the judge of that.

[Anonymous No.20239488]

>>20239481
*soulless

[Anonymous No.20239502]

>>20239252
>wittgensteinian buddhistic
Based. Throwing "atheism" and "trannyism" to make it seem degenerate is a retard tactic.

>white Christian race
Worshipping a Jew and regarding Jewish scriptures/stories as divine and true seems non-white, idk how old the brainwashing is.

[Anonymous No.20239503]

>>20239352
>It's a fuck up, that means it's working

get your booster

[Anonymous No.20239504]

>>20239502
*idc

[Anonymous No.20239512]

>>20239481
What about wanting to harm people?

[Anonymous No.20239518]

>>20239503
I'm anti-vax, but I have a fake pass thats indistinguishable from the real ones, because it came from a real pharmacy

[Anonymous No.20239523]

>>20239352
>It's not really "fucking up", because the diluted spiritual paths are subordinated to Shankaran non-dualism

They're not. This only exists in your brainlet cope mind. You'll never get to Shankara from Ibn Arabi because Ibn Arabi explicitly places Shankaran Buddhism as a lower form of gnosis. Cope this with as much wall of text as you like. Guenon fucked up badly.

[Anonymous No.20239533]

>>20239523
>You'll never get to Shankara from Ibn Arabi because Ibn Arabi explicitly places Shankaran Buddhism as a lower form of gnosis
You can do this quite easily. Ibn Arabi simply doesn't understand the full truth, and his teachings amount to meditating on the conditioned Brahman, which leads to the Brahmaloka when you die, same with Ramanuja. I don't know why you sperg out about this particular topic so often, are you okay?

[Anonymous No.20239541]

>>20239533
>I don't know why you sperg out about this particular topic so often, are you okay?

Because Guenon literally told Europeans to pack up their bags and move to the middle east for something he didn't understand and you know grudgingly admit wasn't the "full truth."

Guenon was a hack.

[Anonymous No.20239547]

>>20239533
You're dishonest too because you REALLY wanted Ibn Arabi to be Shankara and couldn't accept that they weren't the same.

[Anonymous No.20239554]

>>20239502
>Based.
Being agnostic/skeptic about the possibility of attaining spiritual knowledge of the Absolute (and for dumb reasons at that) amounts to cucking oneself out of the glory and wonder of actually attaining it

[Anonymous No.20239561]

>Pack up your bags and go live with sandniggers for a half-truth

So this is the power of Guenonian theosophy.

[Anonymous No.20239569]

>>20239561
And sandniggers packed up their bags to live with snow niggers being programmers, helping pave the way for the Fourth Industrial Revolution. I literally wrote programs for embedded sensors that will take away peoples' autonomy and privacy more.
Snow niggers are worse than regressive and backwards sand niggers.

[Anonymous No.20239586]

>>20239541
>Because Guenon literally told Europeans to pack up their bags and move to the middle east for something he didn't understand
So? lol. He never claimed to be their guru, they wanted initiation into a tradition and he told them they could find it in Islam, he never promised anyone in any letter that whatever Sufi order they joined would be a 1:1 copy of Advaita. Each Sufi order has different teachings and even different branches within those orders. In many cases, especially when people are leaving Protestant countries and backgrounds to do so, they are moving from a more or less atheistic culture into a deeply religious one and participating in a (diluted but still valuable) form of esoterism, so they are still arguably benefitting by doing so, at least from Guenon's perspective.

>>20239547
I don't really care about him one way or another, I've read some Sufi poetry that I liked but Islamic literature in general is not something I'm really invested in or devote much time to thinking about. I don't have any problem with it though. That I never post about Ibn Arabi until you start sperging out about him in Guenon threads should be a hint that I don't think about him at all.

[Anonymous No.20239587]

>>20239569
I don't care. The point is Guenon was advocating major life changes on the basis of a fundamentally flawed understanding of the Eastern traditions (Sufism in this case) and was doing it while denigrating European traditions. He had no clue what he was talking about and should be approached with extreme scepticism.

[Anonymous No.20239606]

>>20239587
>European traditions.
That's because European Christian tradition is trash outside of labeled heretics like Meister Eckhart.

[Anonymous No.20239611]

>>20239587
>The point is Guenon was advocating major life changes
He wasn't telling everyone to do it dummy, when seekers came to him who were already willing to uproot themselves and travel and make major life changes, THEN he told them that they could join esoterism in Islam. But he actually cautioned against the entire West turning Islamic in East and West or Crisis of the Modern World (1 of the 2 books I forget which) and said that it would be a less good option than the West reviving its own metaphysical tradition because it would possibly lead to civil tensions and conflict in Europe.

[Anonymous No.20239612]

>>20239586
You're being so dishonest in your cope as if Guenon never really took Sufism seriously at all, but only because you now realize that he fucked it up. No, "Treatise on Unity" isn't a text by Ibn Arabi and Ibn Arabi isn't the same as Shankara. Guenon tried very hard to claim this in Man and His Becoming, his book on Islam, and in his letters but he was downright wrong.

> they wanted initiation into a tradition and he told them they could find it in Islam

Nonsense gibberish. Guenon himself was "initiated" into Sufism by a drunkard Swede who was equally mistaken about Ibn Arabi. Guenonian initiation has no value. It's like thinking a secret Jewish handshake will make you a millionaire. This whole "oh but diluted is still good" is a pathetic cope of the fact that they are leaving European traditions for something that is a fucking dilution. The onus is on Guenon to prove the one is more diluted than the other, and so far Guenon's track record has been absolute shit when it comes to really judging the metaphysics and esoterism of Eastern traditions.

If all Guenon can offer is dilutions then it's fucking retarded and second-rate garbage.

[Anonymous No.20239620]

>>20239611
>He wasn't telling everyone to do it dummy,

Use your head, zoomer. Think hard for once in your life. Guenon in all of his books argued that people needed initiation and that it was no longer available in Europe.

He thought your "dilution" would somehow revive European tradition. In other words, a dilution reviving another dilution. You see how this is stupid? In reality, you have nothing other than Guenon's books.

[Anonymous No.20239635]

>>20239512
I don't think any genuinely enlightened person has ever had the desire to harm someone for the sake of harming them or for amusement or material benefit, but sometimes they have harmed people while protecting the innocent or while vanquishing the wicked or demonic to prevent them from causing further destruction.

[Anonymous No.20239681]

>>20239612
>You're being so dishonest in your cope as if Guenon never really took Sufism seriously at all.
I'm not being dishonest about anything, I haven't told any lies. I just don't think what you are sperging out over is a big deal. Deal with it! Nothing can shake my love for Guenon (PBUH)

>Guenon himself was "initiated" into Sufism by a drunkard Swede who was equally mistaken about Ibn Arabi
That was only his first initiation into the Shadhili order, specifically the ʿArabiyya branch of it. However, after Guenon moved to Egypt, he also received an authentic section initiation into the Hamdiyya branch of the Shadhili order from an Egyptian sheikh and participated in their gatherings.

>If all Guenon can offer is dilutions then it's fucking retarded and second-rate garbage.
No, that's actually fairly normal, because the direct path to the Absolute is too hard and demanding for most people. Most people who get into esoterism don't fully abandon their possessions, desires, attachments etc and they don't want to, so they practice an indirect path.

[Anonymous No.20239729]

>>20239620
>Use your head, zoomer. Think hard for once in your life. Guenon in all of his books argued that people needed initiation and that it was no longer available in Europe.
He didn't say that it had to come from Islam though, he was initiated into Taoism himself by a Frenchman who had joined a Taoist Triad in Vietnam. And there were plenty of westerners during his generation and afterwards who traveled to India and were initiated into various Shaivite and Vaishnava groups.

>He thought your "dilution" would somehow revive European tradition. In other words, a dilution reviving another dilution.
Again, it doesn't have to come from Sufism, or even from the Ibn Arabi branch of it. You can also have Europeans studying with Hindus or anyone else directly. In fact you have people like David Bentley Hart right now who are basically promoting a quasi-perennialist Vedantic-style reading of Eastern Orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.20239804]

>>20239554
>Being agnostic/skeptic about the possibility of attaining spiritual knowledge of the Absolute (and for dumb reasons at that) amounts to cucking oneself out of the glory and wonder of actually attaining it
see: Buddhist enlightenment

[Anonymous No.20239806]

>>20239554
>attaining spiritual knowledge of the Absolute
So how do you do that?

[Anonymous No.20239829]

>>20239804
>see: Buddhist enlightenment

Not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me... I don't think Buddhists who are skeptic/agnostic about the possibility of having spiritual knowledge of the Absolute are actually enlightened. I think Asanga, Dolpopa and Jinul were far closer to enlightenment than Nagarjuna, and that Buddha was probably much closer to the former 3 in his understanding than he was to Nagarjuna.

In fact Nagarjuna's "Tetralemma" is specifically given as an example of a response that a heretical teacher would say in the Samaññaphala Sutta of the Digha Nikaya. In that Sutta a list of 6 heretical teachers is given, and the 6th heretical teacher is Sañjaya Belaṭṭhaputta, who advocates skepticism and the abandoning of views and positions (a la the typical Madhyamaka reading of Nagarjuna). When asked if there is another world and other questions he replies with the tetralemma. The sutta says that all of this is heretical and not the Buddha's teaching.

[Anonymous No.20239848]

>>20239729
>he was initiated into Taoism himself by a Frenchman who had joined a Taoist Triad in Vietnam.

smoking opium isn't initiation nor is it spiritual and deep

look at a picture of Guenon's teeth late in life, he clearly never gave up the opium habit

[Anonymous No.20239854]

>>20239729
So you're cope is now "get initiated into Taoism" whatever the fuck that means and David Bentley Hart. This is pathetic.

[Anonymous No.20239864]

>>20239848
Guenon had all the tooth decay problems that are typical from opium use. His vain paranoia probably comes from the hashish. Pretty stupid that he had to rely on drugs for his spirituality and it makes you wonder whether what he believed was really just the sensations he physically felt from the opium. Satchinananda = opium high

[Anonymous No.20239983]

1. He was Muslim
2. Islam is both esoteric and exoteric.
3. There are 8 Schools of Islam which vary in interpretation.
4. Those interpretations vary in regards to metaphysics (esoteric) and sharia (exoteric).
5. Some schools are vedantic/platonic (Sufistic) others are more Aristotelian.
5. As long as you stick to proclamation of faith and belief in Muhammad and the messengers, that makes you a Muslim.

Islam is fundamentally an ancient primordial truth. Just because you are averse to various exotercisms and/or have formed a caricature of what a Muslim is, based on media or propaganda is not a sufficient judgement. Try confronting your biases instead of running with them because this is a reoccurring theme.

[Anonymous No.20239986]

>>20239806
>So how do you do that?
I don't consider myself enlightened, but studying the works of Adi Shankara has brought me to a level of spiritual knowledge that I am content with, and which brings me great happiness and which makes my days carefree; and I believe in accordance with Advaita that people who reach such a state of spiritual realization but without complete enlightenment then have the opportunity to attain final enlightenment and final liberation in the next stage of existence after their body dies, since they didn't become monks in this life which is the direct path to final enlightenment while one's body is still alive.

So, just going from my own experiences, I would recommend reading through all of Shankara's works, starting with his Upanishad commentaries. I can't hold your hand and walk you to spiritual knowledge over 4chan messages and so I'm not going to try to break it down for you step by step, but Shankara does break it down step by step throughout his works and explain a reasonable process of how one can acquire knowledge of the Absolute (hint: it's our own Self and you have to carefully distinguish its presence from the non-Self), and so if you do as I recommend, then I think you can reach happiness and peace too, and if you become a non-dualist monk you might even reach complete enlightenment in this life, otherwise that will have to wait until after your body dies, but reaching peace and a constant state of carefree happiness doesn't have to wait but if you are smart enough you can get that even from self-studying Shankara without a teacher.

[Anonymous No.20240007]

>>20239848
>smoking opium isn't initiation nor is it spiritual and deep
Smoking opium was not the only thing he learned from the Taoist Frenchman, he also learned Taoist doctrines and practices as well.

>>20239854
>So you're cope is now "get initiated into Taoism"
or Sufism, or Sikhism, or Hinduism, or (the very few based kinds of) Buddhism, or just being a Christian who is deeply spiritual and who fervently studies and practices Christian metaphysical teachings, whatever works for you and what your heart tells you is right is what you should follow
>and David Bentley Hart.
Yes, he is based, got a problem?
>This is pathetic.
Okay lol, do you think I care?

[Anonymous No.20240050]

>>20239612
European traditions hahahahahahaha. You dont even know what is a tradition

[Anonymous No.20240103]

>>20240050
>nonwhite cope
Whites are better than you at everything, including your own esotericism. Hell they brought them to nonwhites in the first place. Europe has been plagued by the semitic virus since the dawn of AD, but even after that they still managed to spread across the globe, except this time it was poisoned by materialism and democracy.

[Anonymous No.20240119]

>>20239864
Slandering someone you've never known is not following your dharma, no matter how low your caste is, dirty black shudra. Lord Shiva would not be impressed.

[Anonymous No.20240154]

>>20240103
Take ur meds

[Anonymous No.20240163]

>>20239983
Even in Europe muslims create disgusting unsafe slums people can't walk in without getting raped or mugged. Supposedly enlightened sufis molest little boys and put things in their ass. This all goes on while they still have a deep connection to their religion, imagine them without it. Even the greatest Islamic empires were just basically tyrants ruling over masses of slaves. It has nothing compared to older and more noble (dare I say whiter?) forms of spirituality. Abrahamic religions are a scourge from the lower castes.

[Anonymous No.20240167]

>>20240154
post hand

[Anonymous No.20240168]

serious question, did Guenon fuck?

[Anonymous No.20240176]

>>20240168
>had 5 kids

[Anonymous No.20240179]

>>20240167
Plenty of Muslims have light skin. Doesn't mean they're white. I've posted my hand a couple time here and people thought it was white.
Stop being an arrogant fuckhead.

[Anonymous No.20240192]

>>20239393
>Guenon didn't like Christianity, or Buddhism for the most part.
Not surprising a muslim larper like him didn't like the objectively best religions on the planet

[Anonymous No.20240198]

>>20240176
Rene Chadon

[Anonymous No.20240227]

>>20239864
Damn, this is sad. I'm glad I didn't waste time on Guenon.

>>20240119
Shiva isn't real lmao

[Anonymous No.20240244]

>>20240179
Ya, the original Berbers were white. Pale-skinned, blue or green-eyed, red or blondish hair. The direct descendent of Mohamed (pbuh) is a pasty ginger, with the prophet himself also having red hair. I met an Iranian chick with dirty blonde hair and blue eyes. They used to be a lot more white, from the noble stock of the Aryan elite who founded their civilisations, specifically the Persians, so many Iranians are whiter than others in that region.

>>20240227
U BENCHOD BLODY BASTERD BICH I FUCK U ASS U LITLE SHITDICK BLODY BASTERD I AM UR DAD

[Anonymous No.20240248]

>>20240227
>Damn, this is sad. I'm glad I didn't waste time on Guenon.

There's no photo of Guenon where he doesn't look zonked out of his mind. Acquaintances spoke of how he had this blank robotic stare. These are photos from after the time he was supposed to have quit smoking weed and opium.

What do you expect, he was born with a name that literally means "Reborn Monkey."

[Anonymous No.20240256]

Around this time (according to indications reproduced by his biographer Paul Chacornac), it is possible that René Guénon became acquainted with Hinduism, specifically via the initiatic lineage of Shankarâchârya, and with Taoism, due to his friendship with Georges-Albert Puyou de Pouvourville, alias Matgioi. It is likely that Guénon learned to use opium from de Pouvourville, and Guénon later described the use of opium as an aid to meditation.

[Anonymous No.20240257]

>>20239829
Nagarjuna takes no positions because they are all based upon false views of inherent nature. He's not a nihilist or a total skeptic, as he is usually misportrayed by opponents. Madhyamaka advocates for the anatta of all dharmas, the most Buddhist of all teachings, and makes the connection with dependeng origination and emptiness. This is not considered as having a view by then, because it's taken to be the obvious truth that results from the analysis of experience. The "views" the keep rejecting are all other sophistries that result from rejecting the above truths.

[Anonymous No.20240258]

>>20240248
>he had this blank robotic stare.
Do you have any experience in spiritual practices whatsoever? do you know the first thing about them? Also, I will warn you even though you will not listen, slandering good men often results in misfortune and suffering. You are a fool.

[Anonymous No.20240260]

>>20240258
shut the fuck up zoomer faggot

[Anonymous No.20240261]

>>20236453
he got filtered by evola, sorry bro

[Anonymous No.20240262]

>>20240256
I thought drugs were more Evola's style. Left and path and all that. Crowley was infamously a fiend of course. Evola didn't use drugs except when he was quite young, I think.

[Anonymous No.20240263]

>>20239393
>Guenon didn't like Christianity
This is false. Your hate towards christianity is a neurosis.

[Anonymous No.20240268]

>>20240260
Maybe you are already suffering.

[Anonymous No.20240278]

>I think consistently highly of Guenon. Speaking of the desirability o f a return (for Europe) to Christianity, he remarks that “if this could be, the modern world would automatically disappear.”
AKC

>The homage rendered in this way to the new-born Christ by the authentic representatives of the primordial tradition in the three worlds which are their respective domains, is at the same time, we should clearly note, the assurance of the perfect orthodoxy of Christianity in this respect.
Guénon

[Anonymous No.20240280]

Here's your Taoist initiation bro. Literally just getting high off drugs.

[Anonymous No.20240289]

>>20240263
He didn't like Christianity though. He just thought he saw some aspects of Catholicism that were Shankaran Buddhism. He said outright in one of his books that he never took Christian history seriously.

[Anonymous No.20240294]

>>20240262
> I thought drugs were more Evola's style.
>Evola didn't use drugs except when he was quite young, I think.

Which is it retard zoomer?

[Anonymous No.20240297]

>>20240289
You are projecting your own dislike. See >>20240278

[Anonymous No.20240319]

>>20240297
You have no idea what you're talking about. You're so far gone coping about Guenon that you've lost all trail of the argument.

He didn't like Christianity and always felt a deep admiration for Islam, which he secretly practiced in a weird syncretism from 1910ish onwards until he went to Egypt and decided strict exoterism was better. The problem is he didn't know Islam beyond what he was told by dubious turn of the century theosophists. What's worse is that Guenon was too dishonest, or maybe just too cowardly, to admit it. He had to go around Paris telling people he was a Catholic. He attended mass with his first wife but never took communion.

Again, in one of his books (they're all forgettable) he says he never took seriously the claims of Christianity. Whatever he likes about Catholicism is because confirmation bias of seeing Shankaran Buddhism in it.

[Anonymous No.20240327]

>>20238120
Read the post cubecuck. He himself says he wasn't.
>but he said allah!!!
The word Allah is the Arabic word for God. Not exclusive to Islam

[Anonymous No.20240329]

>>20240294
Do you have anything to contribute at all, you massive fucking loser? I find it hilarious that worthless shitskin animals like you even bother with spirituality. Maybe you are just here for trolling and don't believe in any of it. That would be better.

[Anonymous No.20240334]

>>20240319
To be clear, he was secretly practicing some syncretic form of Islam while going around telling his wife's family and Maritain's circles that he was a Catholic. He wasn't in any honest sense, it's just Guenon doing pilpul.

"Oh, I like Christianity because I think there's Buddhism in it" isn't liking Christianity, it's like Buddhism. If Guenon was up front with his beliefs and terms everyone would lose interest quickly.

[Anonymous No.20240336]

>>20240319
>He didn't like Christianity though.
I have read 5 books or more by him and in none of them he expresses his dislike for christianity. On the contrary, he laments the fact europe's cosmovision distanced from it.

You are simply spreading lies because you feel insecure about not having read him.

[Anonymous No.20240341]

>>20240319
I would bet money on you being non-white, almost certainly a goatfucking inbred muslim. Go back to your 3rd world shithole, you are a layman who should be herding goats.

[Anonymous No.20240349]

>>20240341
>>20240329
no argument so the zoomer reverts to ad hominem attacks and can't figure out whether the person he's attacking hates Christianity or hates Islam

take your meds tranny

[Anonymous No.20240354]

>>20240334
Nobody cares, raghead. He was initiated into an elite order, founded Traditionalism, and was respected by countless wise men. You're some retarded faggot gossiping over the internet and you're probably a shitskin, which is the cherry on top.

[Anonymous No.20240355]

>>20240319
>>20240289
>He didn't like christianity

Provide quote or stay quiet. Stop spreading lies you deceitful being. This is condemnable in every religion.

>I think consistently highly of Guenon. Speaking of the desirability of a return (for Europe) to Christianity, he remarks that “if this could be, the modern world would automatically disappear.”
AKC

>The homage rendered in this way to the new-born Christ by the authentic representatives of the primordial tradition in the three worlds which are their respective domains, is at the same time, we should clearly note, the assurance of the perfect orthodoxy of Christianity in this respect.
Guénon

[Anonymous No.20240356]

>>20240341
>I would bet money on you being non-white, almost certainly a goatfucking inbred muslim.

So like Guenon's kids.

[Anonymous No.20240362]

>>20240349
>it thinks I want to argue with it
You are a subhuman retard, you deserve to be ruthlessly bullied of this site for bringing down the quality of these threads significantly. I would encourage others to join me, no matter their race or religion. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.20240366]

>>20240362
meds now

[Anonymous No.20240374]

>>20240356
They were half white and Traditionalist though, so they are ontologically superior to you. You are a worthless subhuman faggot, probably trans, with no redeeming qualities. In a normal society, you would be put down, like an animal that has no further use.

[Anonymous No.20240388]

>>20240366
Kill yourself tranny. Your parents are ashamed of you, you will always be a freak with no friends, nobody will ever feel comfortable around you, except for other mentally ill losers who simply want to get in your ruined asshole.

[Anonymous No.20240410]

>>20240257
>. The "views" the keep rejecting are all other sophistries that result from rejecting the above truths.
Richard Robinson shows how Nagarjuna uses faulty logic and sophistry himself when he tries to argue that everything else is wrong in his classic article "Did Nāgārjuna Really Refute All Philosophical Views?", so the claim that everything aside from what Nagarjuna accepts is sophistry is itself just a totally baseless and dogmatic claim that has been refuted already using modern analytic logic.

Also, Nagarjuna doesn't even lay out any argument attempting a refutation of the Upanishadic Supreme Self but he just attacks the Buddhist pudgalavadins.

[Anonymous No.20240434]

>>20240410
Nobody gives a shit about your infantile sophistry guenonfag. Be silent.>>20240410

[Anonymous No.20240445]

>>20240434
someone is in a bad mood, is it your time of the month?

[Anonymous No.20240465]

>>20240445
I think it's the anti-guénon evolian who likes Huineng, Gutei etc and dislikes christianity.

Wouldn't Nagarjuna fall into the second period of mere resemblance in the buddhist concept of three ages/mappo by the way?

[Anonymous No.20240489]

>>20240465
I have no idea, I'm more Evolian than Guenonian in terms of practice (Hermeticism) btw, I devote most of my time in esoteric reading to studying Rosicrucian Hermeticism/alchemy or ancient European religions for the most part.

[Anonymous No.20240516]

>>20240465
theres a few people in this thread that dislike christianity

[Anonymous No.20240530]

Both Evola and Guenon were trash thinkers.

[Anonymous No.20240533]

>>20240319
Pretty much. That's why Schuon was superior. He had all the insights of Guenon with none of the cringy "fuck you Mom!" reactionary bullshit against Christianity that Guenon did. Schuon also went the Islamic route but only because he felt he needed a proper spiritual guru to guide him, which he felt he couldn't get within Christianity.

[Anonymous No.20240534]

>>20240516
And they are all anti-traditional

[Anonymous No.20240542]

>>20240530
Which works have you read of Guénon?

[Anonymous No.20240558]

>>20240410
brahman-atman was already well refuted by the time nagarjuna was writing so no need to adress it

[Anonymous No.20240576]

>>20240319
You are most definitely a liar.

[Anonymous No.20240585]

What also surprised me a great deal was the regret that I had no biographical information about myself; this is something I have always formally opposed, and above all for a reason of principle, because, according to traditional doctrine, individualities count for nothing and must disappear entirely ... But, in spite of this, I am obliged at least to rectify erroneous assertions when they occur; For example, I cannot let it be said that I am "converted to Islam", because this way of presenting things is completely false; anyone who is aware of the essential unity of traditions is by this very fact "unconvertible" to anything, he is even the only one who is; but he can "settle down", if it is permitted to express himself in this way, in this or that tradition according to circumstances, and especially for reasons of an initiatory nature. I would like to add in this regard that my links with Islamic esoteric organizations are not something more or less recent as some people seem to think; in fact, they are almost 40 years old...".

[Anonymous No.20241527]

>>20240434
Not an argument
>>20240558
Incorrect, it was never refuted and never has been, you couldn't even refute it now if you wanted to

[Anonymous No.20241602]

>>20240585
>what I do is so syncretic and woo-woo that you shoudn't even consider it a conversion, it's pure LARP

Got it!

[Anonymous No.20241613]

>>20241602
that's not syncretism dummy

[Anonymous No.20241716]

>>20240530
Guenon (pbuh) is the best thinker of the 20th century

[Anonymous No.20242570]

>>20236453
OP here.
Thanks for engaging in the thread, Guénon was Not Religous, and Guénon was Unconvertible, the Traditionalist point of view is both Supra-religous and Infra-religous, truly Above and Below, all-encompassing awareness expanding, reconciling opposition, resolving contradiction, it cannot be honestly said that Mysticism is somehow "sentimental and moralistic" in the case of Christians but not in the case of Sufis, or even in the case of Hindu ascetics, I reject this "Sentimentalism" this "Moralism" I also reject the organised "beuracratic initiation" approach, nonetheless soon I will be receiving an esoteric Buddhism "initiation" into tantra, how this will leave behind a "spiritual influence" I await eagerly, still, the end result of Guénon is the elevation of the supra-rational over the rational, a shunnning of the intellectual in essence, to realise God at the center as the pupil in the iris, the eye which filters lights, what am I searching for, "siddhis?" "Ecstatic yrances?" "Mystical visions" insights into what exactly? God pure, purity, devotion what does it serve? According to Guénon praises rendered unto God are praises rendered unto the self. I cut out all the useless chatter the debates that I see and that i used to pointlessly engage in, inter-religous, the pagan nonsense, the jew nonsense, people who prattle on about God here and there, silence the 0 the unlimited sti when spoken limited, freedom of non-being, the differentiation of manifestation the limitation of beings, i determine myself my corporeal determination — manifestation these are also limitations the Unitary Being the One the determination first from the Zero, how can I pass from Being to Non-being other than through Silence, this is the natural conclusion, through self-knowledge and self-purification, "unitive ways" this is the how I may attain the Absolute Freeom, the Salvation, the Liberation, what do the rituals serve, what do I seek through the mandalas, the meditative practices, why do I devote myself to this, what is my intention here? Is it obsession, no I am dispassionate, I am detached, so what do I seek, "seek and ye shall find" seek what Liberation Individual Transcendence so to speak, return to the Source, names of this and names of that, defining something beyond being, names of what exactly? How did the traditions first enter the world, how did they find me, the soul itself that I am is an incarnation an avatara, this is ascertained through self-knowledge and this is supposedly the case for all people, this is pride how does it help me, all this stuff that I have filled my head with, it seems like Truism, realisation, how can I realise anything I don't already know, it's all there right?
I can't h*ACK it anymore.

What am I trying to seek exactly? Decode the secrets of the counter-initiation, of hyperborea of what "Green Dragon" practice tantra this and that, I have always felt detached, I can't figure anything out myself.

[Anonymous No.20242581]

>>20239105
Guenon was against Buddhism when he was younger, as he felt it lacked iniatory power, but Coomaraswamy showed him that Buddhism was a legitimate Tradition.

[Anonymous No.20242624]

>>20242570
"Meditation" as bastardised as the connotations are in the Modern day, is this really the only accesible practical implementation, contemplation so to speak, thinking about death, internalising the ontological, metaphysical implications of being is this all there is? Prostrating before icons and idols, chanting mantras which have profound meaning and have sacred design entwined with learned visualisations imparted by gurus who have had these teachings passed down to them, from some time ago before I became aware, as aware as I am now, making vows and oaths, claiming the title of initiate, is this what it was all about from the beginning, all of it, is it just symbol and ritual, self-manifestation, self-generation, creating, creating, destroying, negating, decaying, unmanifested formlessness,
Why is that all that I am able to conceive of? There must be more! Something more which, how can anything of which there must be "more" how can it be real, only that which is "most" can be real, what is more, is merely a gradation of most ftered by me afterall, I'm done! The druggies must've been right all along, the deeper I go the more I realise that this is just gradation!!!
Someone explain exactly what is different between contemplation and action!!! Isn't contemplation truly just non-action, I don't feel so good Guénonbros I don't know why i got involved in this stuff to begin with, I knew all this before from the beginning, just in parts at least then I had curiosity, what even is cuirousity?
It's too much for me /lit/ has tricked me into a hopeless wantless guénonfag.

[Anonymous No.20242642]

>>20240248
>Acquaintances spoke of how he had this blank robotic stare
Enlighten us with a source for this

[Anonymous No.20242656]

>>20240319
You very clearly have no idea what you speak of, provide no textual evidence for your claims, and each one of your posts emanates rage.
I hope you find peace.

[Anonymous No.20242669]

>>20240248
I am convinced that the end result of Guénonfagging is really just inducing trance and ecstasy,
Materialism is fake and gay right, but one should embrace all desire and transmute it into non-dual realisation, guénon was coping there is nothing beyond the sentimentalism of altered states of conciousness, beyond dream-states and visions, beyond feelings of joy, and feelings of bliss, and feelings of the deep and of the abyss, of center, this is what all religion is about, what is primordial about this? Man himself is primordial, his incarnation, the possibilities, metaphysical simplicities,
All this for what and for who?

[Anonymous No.20242677]

>>20242669
"Altered states of conciousness" if we deny the meaning here, in whatever vague way it is meant by other people, all I mean is the fundamental irreducibility of the being, induced through some sort of process, properly in time and space, if I stab myself and bleed this body will die, no amount of intellectual-coping will let me see truly any further than this, or am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.20242685]

>>20242677
"Further" is also a gradation there is no such thing it is illusory.

[Anonymous No.20242771]

>>20240248
Guénon has a fluoride stare, original NPC, metaphysical computer.

[Anonymous No.20242831]

I'm always amazed that the people in touch with a higher truth are even more spiteful and combative than the average 4chan user.

[Anonymous No.20243038]

>>20240260
Why are you so angry?

[Anonymous No.20243045]

>>20241527
There is nothing to refute since Advaita never proved anything in the first place. Hint: it's written in the Vedas is not a proof.

[Anonymous No.20243107]

>>20243045
> since Advaita never proved anything in the first place.
No philosophy ever was proven, people just go with what they find most compelling and/or logically consistent, even Buddhism makes loads of unfalsifiable metaphysical claims.

If you cant establish any logical contradiction in Advaita, in line with the consequentialist (prasangika) approach favored by Buddhism, then you should admit that you cannot refute Advaita and move on. Pretty much all Buddhist thinkers historically still tried to refute opposing philosophies despite those philosophies not themselves being proven, you trying to switch up that now and pretend this was never the case is just due to your inability to refute Advaita.

[Anonymous No.20243148]

>>20239256
Is the sink part of an esoteric tradition?

[Anonymous No.20243166]

>>20240516
>>20240534
Based. You have OPs seal of approval.
>>20243038
>>20242831
Lol I have no idea why they're so angry I made the thread and I knew it would degenerate into controversy and profane discussion, but it's always entertaining to watch demons manifest, hopefully it will lead them to a deep period of introspection.

[Anonymous No.20243171]

>>20236453
lmao. this is pure sophistry: i follow islam but i technically dont

[OP No.20243187]

>>20243171
Thanks for putting the letter in the original French, it's not pure sophistry, it's just a manifestation of the exoteric-esoteric hermeneutic, a Traditionalist as he puts it is "unconvertible" I would say guénons need to even make this comment denigrates Islam or at least his interpretation of the exoteric face of Islam, and it should be clear to anyone who really understands Guénons conception of religion, his concept of Tradition.

[Anonymous No.20243195]

guenonfag it's glad to see you're back in the swing of things

t. your loyal disciple

[OP No.20243201]

>>20243187
And that this is inconsistent with the sufi approach, which is really non-seperate from Exoteric Islam as pointed our by an earlier person in the thread, a sufi is an islamist, Guénon was Not a true Muslim in this sense.

[OP No.20243218]

>>20243201
Guénon was a Guénonian Sufi, there I believe a necessary distinction, his disciple Schuon echoed a similar sentiment as substantiated with the quotes in the second post of the thread, I guess we can call this an echo of the Guénonian disposition toward Islam perhaps.

[Anonymous No.20243285]

This thread was moved to >>>/his/13178827