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/lit/ - Literature

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20222508 No.20222508 [Reply] [Original]

>Shakespeare is the center of the western canon
<only in the eighteenth century (french!) men of letters and scholars found works of Shakespeare a source of profit or reputation
ITT: intellectual frauds

>> No.20222529

>>20222508
you mean German men of letters, right?

>> No.20222536

>>20222529
It may be, I don't remember right now.

>> No.20222560

ESL cope is very funny to me. Stay jealous.

>> No.20222639

>>20222560
Jealous of being perfidious?

>> No.20222647

>>20222529
>men of letters
FALLACY!
A man is composed of bones, tissue, blood and so forth, not letters. If a man were to be composed of letters, indeed, he would BY DEFINITION, not be a man at all.
Hence, your preposterous assertion, "a man of letters", is a contradictio in adjectio, no different than the utterance "round square".

Another battle has been won on the intellectual field of battle. I am a rather formidable general of the argument, I must say - undefeated, to this day. I advance victorious and content in my heart, for my artillery is the syllogism, and much like Napoleon, I have mastered the craft of its use.

>> No.20222778

>>20222529
Yeah, it's Germans, 18th-19th century, who really spread him across Europe. The French had a distaste for him for a long time, due to the classicist norms that preferred Racine and Moliere.

>> No.20222784
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20222784

>the most well-known critic of western literature was a jew
books on how jews subsumed western civilisation and made it their own?

>> No.20222798

>>20222508
Something is great whether people appreciate it or not, anon. Shakespeare was pretty famous in his time and after in England. Other countries took some time to discover him.
People who claim Billy S. was a hack are either ESL or were forced to read the man in high school. It's cope no matter where you stand.

>> No.20222803

>>20222784
>>the most well-known critic of western literature
He's a complete non-entity outside of the anglosphere. Get a grip.

>> No.20222805

>>20222784
Samuel Johnson's not a jew

>> No.20222888

>>20222798
>Something is great whether people appreciate it or not, anon
Ignoratio elenchi. That's not the matter here, but whether Shakespeare is or is not the center of the western canon.

>> No.20222896

>>20222803
Yes, and anything beyond the anglosphere is also a non entity kek. ESL copers stay mad.

>> No.20222907

>>20222508
but he is, he's the anglophonic goat, has been for over half a millennia. and here we all are, typing in english

>> No.20222959

>>20222896
>>20222907
Once French was the lingua franca too, but then french culture and French herself declined and English took its place. If the critery for electing the center of the western canon is based on lingua franca, you have to accept that it changes with the lingua franca, but we cannot accept, for a center cannot change, by definition.

>> No.20223079

>>20222959
Normally true, except there was no Shakespeare equivalent when French was the lingua franca. That was the game changer, so even if English does (and I think it will) fade out, it will still remain a language of upmost cultural and civilizational importance merely because of the contributions of people like Shakespeare and Joyce. Literally no French equivalents to these two.

>> No.20223115

>>20222896
>literally built his work around Freud and European classics
>gained fame by complaining about the French theory dominating American universities
a Bloom thread is the last place where one could brag about *nglo superiority

>>20223079
Racine or Moliere (take your pick), and Proust

>> No.20223121

>>20223115
>Moliere
Trying to argue Moliere is anywhere near as influential and talented as Shakespeare is pure cope, I'm afraid. There's a reason Shakespeare was being adapted into various mediums all over Europe even before English was the lingua franca.

>> No.20223131

>>20223115
>"It was above all Shakespeare's drama, with its richness and its freedom, which, for the romantic writers, overshadowed contemporaneous German efforts, whose gravity was, in any case, alien to the practical theatre."

- Walter Benjamin on Baroque drama.

>> No.20223202

>>20223115
No way this faggot just compared Racine to Shakespeare LMFAO true ESL brainrot.

>> No.20223240

>>20222508
Why did Bloom never bother to learn any other languages other than English when he was supposed to be an authority on the Western canon?

>> No.20223279

>>20223240
Didn't he read the Bible in Hebrew?

>> No.20223290

>>20223279
He knew Hebrew and Yiddish growing up but didn't learn any other languages after English.

>> No.20223293

>>20223240
He knew Yiddish. That was his first language.

>> No.20223304

>>20223115
Not only is it impossible to find an entity in the french canon comparable to Shakespeare (uncontroversial, it's well known there is no equivalent of Dante for Italians, Shakespeare for the English, in the french canon) , you go along the even more disastrous route to propose Racine and Moliere as equals, as if the former's language is not infinitely superior to the latter's, who in any case, shouldn't be compared to Shakespeare on any basis. The french canon is unique in that it reached its heights only in the late 19th century, and in doing do does in fact play a much more important role in the development of the modern canon, than Shakespeare, but I'm afraid this phenomenon occurs not thanks to Racine's all too pure language or Moliere's irony, but through Baudelaire's genius, the only poet that can ever be considered comparable (but in this case far superior) to Shakespeare, or Dante, in France.

>> No.20223305

>>20223279
>>20223293
Yes, he knew Hebrew and Yiddish. However, most of the Western canon is in other languages, excluding the Old Testament.

>> No.20223351

>>20222784
I don't know the one in OP's pic, but don't you read excerpts from Benjamin, Bakhtin and Borges at school? I know Benjamin is a jew and I wouldn't be surprised if Bakhtin is too.

>> No.20223368

>>20223131
Any titles?

>> No.20223685

>>20222888
He is. His influence on the anglosphere is absolute. Nobody comes close. Shakespeare is everywhere. The fact that his work is so ubiquitous without people realizing it is proof enough.

>> No.20223721

>>20222784
Bloom is a non-entity, he's just a meme on /lit/ because of his funny faces, insulting Harry Potter, and "the school of resentment", and writing a bad sequel to A Voyage to Arcturus

>> No.20223782

>>20223721
He’s far from the most influential literary critic but to call him a non entity is delusional. Get a fucking grip.

>> No.20224484

>>20222639
No

>> No.20224496

>>20222508
When writing about Shakespeare, Bloom doesn't write criticism. He writes reverence. It's really quite ridiculous.

>> No.20224637

>>20223721
Look in the index of any college textbook on literary canon in any european country, and you will find his name. He has quite clearly left a long-lasting mark on his field.

>> No.20224650

>>20222508
>only in the eighteenth century (french!) men of letters and scholars found works of Shakespeare a source of profit or reputation
what? what are you talking about? genuinely what does this mean?

>> No.20224656

>>20222784
Bloom was one of the first critics to understand how idpol would lead to honorary-trophies by proxy, he's not a bad figure

>> No.20224667

>>20222508
He’s right. There’s no one else directly as influential as The Bard

>> No.20224673

>>20222508
the English no longer read

>> No.20224675

>>20224656
>Bloom was one of the first critics to understand how idpol would lead to honorary-trophies by proxy, he's not a bad figure
>implying everyone with a brain didn't understand this before the Civil Rights Act was even passed

>> No.20224680

>>20222803
not even true. i mean george steiner might have been more famous but bloom is quite often referenced worldwide. NO critic is THAT popular worldwide of course -- it's just not really that important of a job -- but bloom is still about as popular as they come. of course, this means nothing about whether he was good at the job

>> No.20224685

>>20222784
>Jews subsumed western civilisation and made it their own
Jews wrote the Bible. They literally made your 'western civilisation.'

>> No.20224698

>>20224685
Jews weren't even a thing until a hundred years after Christianity you fucking brainlet.

>> No.20224709

>>20224698
>>20224685
Western civ wasn't really a thing until centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire.

>> No.20224757

>>20224709
Except it predates Rome itself, you pedantic retard

>> No.20224760

>>20224757
No, it doesn't. Read Spengler.

>> No.20224783

>>20224760
absolute retard

>> No.20224785

>>20224783
Greco-Roman civilization is not Western civilization. And anything prior to that cannot be considered a civilization. Western civ was a posterior thing.

>> No.20224799

>>20224698
Kek

>> No.20224808

>>20224799
I meant that rabbinical shit. Obviously Hadrian and Titus were dabbing on those big nosed cunts back in the day.

>> No.20224824

>>20224650
The center of the canon cannot have appeared only a few years ago

>> No.20224831

>>20224785
No.

>> No.20224833

>>20224824
What? Is this another non-sequiter?

>> No.20224835

>>20223721
Almost all "school of resentment" members are either nogs or frogs. Really makes you think.

>> No.20225182

The basis for Western civilization are Greek and Latin, if you disagree you're coping hard

>> No.20225186

>>20224831
Yes

>> No.20225627

>>20224685
Israelites =/= Jew
Jews were only 1 tribe of Israel, it's like saying
Native Americans and Iroquois are the same thing