/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20212322]

>There is a rollicking kindness that looks like malice.
What did Nietzsche mean by this? My interpretation is that he's talking about light bullying but I couldn't find the phrase in my copy of BG&E so I don't know the context.

[Anonymous No.20212444]

>>20212322
BG&E 184

[Anonymous No.20212461]

>>20212444
Thanks, I couldn't find the phrase on that page but if that is the context you're suggesting then I think I am correct. "Good natured and spiteful" is how I'd define many bullies as well but Nietzsche was talking about all Germans?
Would you say it is still true of Germans today?

[Anonymous No.20212518]

My translation cites it as the following:
>There is a haughtiness of kindness which has the appearance of wickedness."

Three passages above, BG&E 181:
>It is inhuman to bless where one is cursed.

I read them together as meaning the inverse. So the original quote is basically saying there are "blessings in disguise" (as curses/wickedness)

[Anonymous No.20212529]

>>20212518
I suppose I will never know German well enough (or in period context) to understand what he meant. But I was a bully and that was my mentality. I'd tease kids that were insecure, I would push them if they were weak. I was giving them an opportunity to prove me wrong. Because to me, a child, I saw that as a way of curing them of these weaknesses. But of course it was almost never interpreted that way. I wonder how many bullies thought the same way.

[Anonymous No.20213161]

>>20212322

233.

Against remorse and its purely psychical treatment.—To be unable to have done with an experience is already a sign of decadence. This reopening of old wounds, this wallowing in self-contempt and depression, is an additional form of disease; no "salvation of the soul" ever results from it, but only a new kind of spiritual illness....

These "conditions of salvation" of which the Christian is conscious are merely variations of the same diseased state—the interpretation of an attack of epilepsy by means of a particular formula which is provided, not by science, but by religious mania.

When a man is ill his very goodness is sickly.... By far the greatest portion of the psychical apparatus which Christianity has used, is now classed among the various forms of hysteria and epilepsy.

[Pg 191]The whole process of spiritual healing must be remodelled on a physiological basis: the "sting of conscience" as such is an obstacle in the way of recovery—as soon as possible the attempt must be made to counterbalance everything by means of new actions, so that there may be an escape from the morbidness of self-torture.... The purely psychical practices of the Church and of the various sects should be decried as dangerous to the health. No invalid is ever cured by prayers or by the exorcising of evil spirits: the states of "repose" which follow upon such methods of treatment, by no means inspire confidence, in the psychological sense....

A man is healthy when he can laugh at the seriousness and ardour with which he has allowed himself to be hypnotised to any extent by any detail in his life—when his remorse seems to him like the action of a dog biting a stone—when he is ashamed of his repentance.

The purely psychological and religious practices, which have existed hitherto, only led to an alteration in the symptoms: according to them a man had recovered when he bowed before the cross, and swore that in future he would be a good man.... But a criminal, who, with a certain gloomy seriousness cleaves to his fate and refuses to malign his deed once it is done, has more spiritual health.... The criminals with whom Dostoiewsky associated in prison, were all, without exception, unbroken natures,—are they not a hundred times more valuable than a "broken-spirited" Christian?

[Pg 192](For the treatment of pangs of conscience I recommend Mitchell's Treatment.[2])

[2]TRANSLATOR'S NOTE.—In The New Sydenham Society's Lexicon of Medicine and the Allied Sciences, the following description of Mitchell's treatment is to be found: "A method of treating cases of neurasthenia and hysteria ... by removal from home, rest in bed, massage twice a day, electrical excitation of the muscles, and excessive feeding, at first with milk."

[Anonymous No.20213170]

>>20213161
234.

A pang of conscience in a man is a sign that his character is not yet equal to his deed. There is such a thing as a pang of conscience after good deeds: in this case it is their unfamiliarity, their incompatibility with an old environment.

[Anonymous No.20213177]

>>20213170
235.

Against remorse.—I do not like this form of cowardice in regard to one's own actions, one must not leave one's self in the lurch under the pressure of sudden shame or distress. Extreme pride is much more fitting here. What is the good of it all in the end! No deed gets undone because it is regretted, no more than because it is "forgiven" or "expiated." A man must be a theologian in order to believe in a power that erases faults: we immoralists prefer to disbelieve in "faults." We believe that all deeds, of what kind soever, are identically the same at root; just as deeds which turn against us may [Pg 193]be useful from an economical point of view, and even generally desirable. In certain individual cases, we admit that we might well have been spared a given action; the circumstances alone predisposed us in its favour. Which of us, if favoured by circumstances, would not already have committed every possible crime?... That is why one should never say: "Thou shouldst never have done such and such a thing," but only: "How strange it is that I have not done such and such a thing hundreds of times already!"—As a matter of fact, only a very small number of acts are typical acts and real epitomes of a personality, and seeing what a small number of people really are personalities, a single act very rarely characterises a man. Acts are mostly dictated by circumstances; they are superficial or merely reflex movements performed in response to a stimulus, long before the depths of our beings are affected or consulted in the matter. A fit of temper, a gesture, a blow with a knife: how little of the individual resides in these acts!—A deed very often brings a sort of stupor or feeling of constraint in its wake: so that the agent feels almost spellbound at its recollection, or as though he belonged to it, and were not an independent creature. This mental disorder, which is a form of hypnotism, must be resisted at all costs: surely a single deed, whatever it be, when it is compared with all one has done, is nothing, and may be deducted from the sum without making the account wrong. The unfair interest which society manifests in controlling the whole of our lives [Pg 194]in one direction, as though the very purpose of its existence were to cultivate a certain individual act, should not infect the man of action: but unfortunately this happens almost continually. The reason of this is, that every deed, if followed by unexpected consequences, leads to a certain mental disturbance, no matter whether the consequences be good or bad. Behold a lover who has been given a promise, or a poet while he is receiving applause from an audience: as far as intellectual torpor is concerned, these men are in no way different from the anarchist who is suddenly confronted by a detective bearing a search warrant.

[Anonymous No.20213214]

>>20212529
Well the translation isn't complicated. Sounds like you made this post wanting someone to confirm you were interpreting the epigram the way you personally took it but Nietzsche's writings can mean a million different things to a million different people. They're amorphous in the kinds of ways that allow you to project (which you clearly are)

Anyways if you want an effort post - bullying is based and you probably did nothing wrong. Not psychological bullying with malicious intent. If you want to hurt a person on a deeper level or make it personally then you're more or less a psycho or sociopath who wants to cause pain. What's actually based is reactive bullying when you see behavior that is out of place and unbecoming of young men. You're just reminding them the weak should fear the strong. Better sooner than later. High school is where you know where you truly belong on the social ladder. Wealth, career, super bullshit don't matter. It's like the animal kingdom, or at least it used to be.

Being bullied reminds someone of where they belong in the social hierarchy. It teaches them the consequences of being a faggot so they learn how to develop and show strength, or they're beyond saving. I got bullied a little bit freshman year of high school and it made me more self aware. By the time I graduated high school bullying sort of died out. Now everyone has to be accepted no matter what they do. I see all these limp-wristed femboy teens these days shamelessly trying to be influencers and I think to myself how they would've turned out if bullying was still acceptable and they got punched in the face for faggotry when they were younger. I don't think bullies do what they do with a benevolent purpose, it's just picking on the weak. And unless you're on friendly terms with the person and tease them the right way, they'll never interpret it as help. Neither will a third party. We're wired to sympathize with the weak, watch a lion eating a live gazelle or a little kid being smacked around by other kids and you won't enjoy their pain. But high school is the right time in someone's development to teach them those lessons. Your logic reeks of some of the 'tism but I agree with your basic point. As Nietzsche said "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" - you need stressors to keep you in check, just like your muscles will atrophy if you stay in bed for a week even if it's better than being sore after a long work out.

[Anonymous No.20213522]

>>20212322
The original aphorism reads:
>Es giebt einen Übermuth der Güte, welcher sich wie Bosheit ausnimmt

"Übermut" (Nietzsche uses an elder spelling, same with "giebt" btw.) means "recklessness", "exuberance".
"Übermut" connotes a kind of inappropriateness, a behavior which doesn't suit the situation, which is too undisciplined, simply "too much". But when you're "übermütig" you're also generally having fun with what you're doing, you're enjoing yourself and forget about the possible consequences of your acts and if you put yourself in danger by doing them. Therefore, "Übermut" is most of the times something children and young adults, or generally people with little life experience show.

>>20212518
>haughtiness
is simply a wrong translation

It's always hard and most of the times inappropriate to say an aphorism means exactly this and that and nothing else, because they can oftentimes be interpreted pretty widely. But I think he means, there are people who don't realize their kindness can get humiliating for other people - for example if you think someone is in a needy situation and give him money to help him while he wants to get out of the situation on his own behalf. Therefore, he can think your behaviour is humiliating because it implies he can't get it done on his own. And if you're doing that oftentimes he might come to think, you're doing it not out of kindness but to intentionally humiliate him and interpret your behaviour as malevolent.

That's also in line with 182.

[Anonymous No.20213538]

>>20212461
>Nietzsche was talking about all Germans?
There's no indication Nietzsche is talking specifically about Germans here.

[Anonymous No.20213714]

>>20212444
>>20212461

Pain and anger stirs action. Agitate, agony, action, the Greek agon, and the Hindu God Agni are all cognates

[Anonymous No.20214103]

>>20212322
original:
>Es giebt einen Übermuth der Güte, welcher sich wie Bosheit ausnimmt.
I'd translate it as "There is a degree of excessive/indulgent/well-meaning benevolence, which effectively consitutes malice". I interpret it as being related to e.g. the phenomenon of lenient single mothers who don't scold their children, thereby doing them a massive disservice, raising them into rude dickheads who'll always have problems interacting with others in a civilized manner.

[Anonymous No.20214174]

>>20214103
ausnehmen is not "constitutes"

[Anonymous No.20214662]

>>20214103
>>20214174
Yep. "Ausnehmen" doesn't mean "constitute". It's barely used in Nietzsche's sense in modern German, but it used to mean "to look like", "to appear as".
Nietzsche makes a difference between what something is (reckless kindness) and what it appears to be (malevolence). That's why OP's "bully interpretation" seems to be a little far-fetched: a bully's intention isn't good or altruistic at all.