Thus Spoke Zarathustra

[Anonymous No.20209154]

Who were the “higher men”? Especially the ugliest man?

[Anonymous No.20209225]

>>20209154
>ugliest man
sacRE blue

[Anonymous No.20209256]

>>20209154
I think he was the nihilist but I can't remember desu

[Anonymous No.20209866]

So as much as Nietzsche is “discussed”, he isn’t actually read here, is he?

[Anonymous No.20209869]

>>20209866
I’m about a third of the way through the book so if he wasn’t before he will be now.

[Anonymous No.20209905]

>>20209869
I’ve never read philosophy before but decided to give Nietzsche a whirl because I’ve heard so much about him but couldn’t make heads or tails of the analysis. I’ve only read this and Genealogy of Morality but I love him. I don’t agree with everything, but he’s entertaining and liberating. I really feel that Nietzsche would be a Buddhist today. I see a lot of parallels oddly

[Anonymous No.20209981]

>>20209154
the Ugliest Man is David Strauss. The Sorceror is Wagner, and the Shadow is Lord Bryon.

[Anonymous No.20210006]

>>20209866
I've read a few of his books
Birth of tragedy
Genealogy of morals
The antichrist
Twilight of the idols
Ecce homo
Will to power

I think that's it. Couldn't get into Zarsthustra or the Gay science. I read part of but not all of Beyond Good and Evil as well.

I dont really "get" Nietzsche. Everyone loves him so much but all his stuff to me kind of just feels like some guy speculating about psychology. It's entertaining sometimes and can be thought provoking but I don't understand why people consider him this titanic figure who changed everything.

[Anonymous No.20210036]

>>20210006
>some guy speculating about psychology.
that makes no sense
>It's entertaining sometimes and can be thought provoking but I don't understand why people consider him this titanic figure who changed everything.
No one thinks that, Nietzsche is just a fun read. The only people that see Nietzsche as admirable are depressed morons and teenagers.

[Anonymous No.20210046]

>>20210036
How does that not make sense? He is always going on about what he sees as hidden psychological motives.

And people definitely do view him like that. I have seen people state he "killed metaphysics". And many prominent 20th century philosophers appear to be obsessed with him.

[Anonymous No.20210051]

>>20209905
If you haven't read philosophy you shouldn't read Nietzsche. You might get a little from his aphorisms and such, but the vast majority of his work is only valuable in dialogue with the philosophical traditions he was reacting against.

[Anonymous No.20210123]

>>20210051
Idk. Like I said I’m not really into philosophy but the masochistic in me likes being called rabble and told to wake up. I actually like physically reading Nietzsche, whereas the other philosophers I’ve read (Plato, Kant and Foucault) have been very dry and tedious. I think prerequisites are waaaay overrated. If a philosopher can’t explain a concept without me reading thousands of pages of other people’s works, they probably aren’t clear and worth reading. From what I see, most philosophers will cite a previous philosopher and his thought on whatever topic, before elaborating himself and replying. That’s good enough for me. I’m not writing papers or anything. Nietzsche does fine personifying the higher men in Zarathustra, and even if I was unsure which philosophy was being countered in name, I got a good idea of the core concepts of that philosophy and how it fit into Nietzsche’s outlook

[Anonymous No.20210170]

>>20209905
Yeah man, you can always return to it when you’ve read some more as well, nothing’s stopping you. I’ve heard people go back and forth on starting with Zarathustra, but I think it’s actually been pretty newcomer friendly (newcomer to Nietzsche, probably not philosophy). It’s structured as an almost biblical narrative, there’s not really a lot of reference to other philosophers, it’s just his undistilled beliefs. And it’s actually fun to read, which is a rarity for philosophy.

[Anonymous No.20210185]

>>20210170
>It’s structured as an almost biblical narrative, there’s not really a lot of reference to other philosophers, it’s just his undistilled beliefs. And it’s actually fun to read, which is a rarity for philosophy.
This. I always thought of Zarathustra as a nihilistic bible lol

[Anonymous No.20210192]

>>20210185
You have to be a brainlet to identify Zarathustra with nihilism. Re-read the part with the fool on the olive mound.

[Anonymous No.20210212]

>>20210192
Zarathustra claims to be a void enjoyer. Yeah he fulfills his life with enjoying this suffering but implying there's a void is nihilism, mate.

[Anonymous No.20210233]

>>20210170
What other philosophy books are more on the fun side?

[Anonymous No.20210264]

Don't start with TSZ. You should read it last.
>>20210212
>oversimplifying this much

[Anonymous No.20210277]

>>20210233
The preSocratics are basically just schizo poems, very based. Some of Platos dialogues. Boethius. Augustine. Kierkegaard can be entertaining. The 20th century meme philosophers like Bataille and Deleuze are fun depending on your taste. Michelstaedter or whatever his name is, Persuasion and Rhetoric guy. Idk if Cioran even qualifies as a philosopher but his books are also very entertaining. Spengler appeals a lot to some people. Late wittgenstein. Anything to do with the occult/esoteric is usually amusing to me too

The least fun philosophers are Aristotle, Plotinus, Aquinas, Spinoza, Leibniz, Kant, Hegel, and Heidegger. If there is something seriously wrong with you then you may find Hegel or Heidegger fun though

[Anonymous No.20210309]

>>20210233
The other guy said the ones I was going to. In my very limited experience, Plato’s Socrates can pretty cheeky. I’ve only read Fear and Trembling from Kierkegaard but he writes like a man trying to save souls-maybe not “fun” but compelling.
Anons will say it’s pleb but Albert Camus is very readable (and my introduction into philosophy).

[Anonymous No.20210624]

>>20209154
According Nietzsche the "superior men" or "super men" were the aristocrats with the highest values without dogmas attached to them

[Anonymous No.20211423]

>>20209981
Thanks. Any idea of the others?

[Anonymous No.20211429]

>>20209154

[Anonymous No.20211430]

>>20209154
>the ugliest man
Pyotr Stepanovish
>Who were the “higher men”
Me

[Anonymous No.20211435]

>>20211429
Filtered desu

[Anonymous No.20211453]

>>20210212
>He has yet to overcome
YwnbaUbermensch

[Anonymous No.20211457]

>>20210277
>Tfw when Hegel is fun
I'm ngmi am I

[Anonymous No.20212337]

>>20211457
It’s ok anon, there’s academics who go their whole lives without understanding Hegel
I will be one of them.

[Anonymous No.20213048]

>>20212337
Don't worry, I'll be amongst the ones paying tuition for you

[Anonymous No.20213076]

Lo, this is the tarantula's den! Would'st thou see the tarantula itself? Here hangeth its web: touch this, so that it may tremble.

There cometh the tarantula willingly: Welcome, tarantula! Black on thy back is thy triangle and symbol; and I know also what is in thy soul.

Revenge is in thy soul: wherever thou bitest, there ariseth black scab; with revenge, thy poison maketh the soul giddy!

Thus do I speak unto you in parable, ye who make the soul giddy, ye preachers of equality! Tarantulas are ye unto me, and secretly revengeful ones!

But I will soon bring your hiding-places to the light: therefore do I laugh in your face my laughter of the height.

Therefore do I tear at your web, that your rage may lure you out of your den of lies, and that your revenge may leap forth from behind your word "justice."

Because, for man to be redeemed from revenge—that is for me the bridge to the highest hope, and a rainbow after long storms.

Otherwise, however, would the tarantulas have it. "Let it be very justice for the world to become full of the storms of our vengeance"—thus do they talk to one another.

"Vengeance will we use, and insult, against all who are not like us"—thus do the tarantula-hearts pledge themselves.

"And 'Will to Equality'—that itself shall henceforth be the name of virtue; and against all that hath power will we raise an outcry!"

Ye preachers of equality, the tyrant-frenzy of impotence crieth thus in you for "equality": your most secret tyrant-longings disguise themselves thus in virtue-words!

Fretted conceit and suppressed envy—perhaps your fathers' conceit and envy: in you break they forth as flame and frenzy of vengeance.

What the father hath hid cometh out in the son; and oft have I found in the son the father's revealed secret.

Inspired ones they resemble: but it is not the heart that inspireth them—but vengeance. And when they become subtle and cold, it is not spirit, but envy, that maketh them so.

Their jealousy leadeth them also into thinkers' paths; and this is the sign of their jealousy—they always go too far: so that their fatigue hath at last to go to sleep on the snow.

In all their lamentations soundeth vengeance, in all their eulogies is maleficence; and being judge seemeth to them bliss.

But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!

They are people of bad race and lineage; out of their countenances peer the hangman and the sleuth-hound.

Distrust all those who talk much of their justice! Verily, in their souls not only honey is lacking.

And when they call themselves "the good and just," forget not, that for them to be Pharisees, nothing is lacking but—power!

My friends, I will not be mixed up and confounded with others.

There are those who preach my doctrine of life, and are at the same time preachers of equality, and tarantulas.

[Anonymous No.20213078]

>>20213076
That they speak in favour of life, though they sit in their den, these poison-spiders, and withdrawn from life—is because they would thereby do injury.

To those would they thereby do injury who have power at present: for with those the preaching of death is still most at home.

Were it otherwise, then would the tarantulas teach otherwise: and they themselves were formerly the best world-maligners and heretic-burners.

With these preachers of equality will I not be mixed up and confounded. For thus speaketh justice unto me: "Men are not equal."

And neither shall they become so! What would be my love to the Superman, if I spake otherwise?

On a thousand bridges and piers shall they throng to the future, and always shall there be more war and inequality among them: thus doth my great love make me speak!

Inventors of figures and phantoms shall they be in their hostilities; and with those figures and phantoms shall they yet fight with each other the supreme fight!

Good and evil, and rich and poor, and high and low, and all names of values: weapons shall they be, and sounding signs, that life must again and again surpass itself!

Aloft will it build itself with columns and stairs—life itself into remote distances would it gaze, and out towards blissful beauties- therefore doth it require elevation!

And because it requireth elevation, therefore doth it require steps, and variance of steps and climbers! To rise striveth life, and in rising to surpass itself.

And just behold, my friends! Here where the tarantula's den is, riseth aloft an ancient temple's ruins—just behold it with enlightened eyes!

Verily, he who here towered aloft his thoughts in stone, knew as well as the wisest ones about the secret of life!

That there is struggle and inequality even in beauty, and war for power and supremacy: that doth he here teach us in the plainest parable.

How divinely do vault and arch here contrast in the struggle: how with light and shade they strive against each other, the divinely striving ones.—

Thus, steadfast and beautiful, let us also be enemies, my friends! Divinely will we strive against one another!—

Alas! There hath the tarantula bit me myself, mine old enemy! Divinely steadfast and beautiful, it hath bit me on the finger!

"Punishment must there be, and justice"—so thinketh it: "not gratuitously shall he here sing songs in honour of enmity!"

Yea, it hath revenged itself! And alas! now will it make my soul also dizzy with revenge!

That I may not turn dizzy, however, bind me fast, my friends, to this pillar! Rather will I be a pillar-saint than a whirl of vengeance!

Verily, no cyclone or whirlwind is Zarathustra: and if he be a dancer, he is not at all a tarantula-dancer!—

Thus spake Zarathustra.