/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.20205366]

LITERATURE edition

Previous: >>20202828

Mega: https://mega dot nz/folder/9o4QEIIK#P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

A general dedicated to classical languages and literature. Share your struggles and accomplishments before this gets deleted.

[Anonymous No.20205573]

>>20205366
Salvete pathici

[Anonymous No.20206146]

>>20205573
χαίρε, ὦ φίλος

[Anonymous No.20207445]

Good bread

[Anonymous No.20207477]

>>20205366
Where the FUCK have these threads been over the last couple of days? /lit/'s quality (which is shit on the best of days) goes to diarrhea without them desu senpai. The diamond in a massive pile of turds. Love you, bros. Keep up the great discussions.

[Anonymous No.20207490]

>>20207477
previous to last one reached bump limit, but nobody was making a new one until someone did, but fucked up the formatting, it's still up >>20202287 , I had made a properly formatted one afterwards but the janny deleted that instead of the latter, hopefully he doesn't delete this one as well (for free) and deletes the other

[Anonymous No.20207507]

>>20207490
The other thread seems fine. What's wrong with the formatting?

[Anonymous No.20207511]

>>20207507
he put the title of the general in the name field instead of the subject field, so it doesn't pop up in the catalog as /clg/ + /lll/ when searching

[Anonymous No.20207792]

>chapter 13 of llpsi
>the ranieri recording is 16 minutes long
guys... i'm not sure i can make it through this...

[Anonymous No.20207818]

familia romana is too slavy

[Anonymous No.20207855]

Repost since other thread was ruined from the start
An exercise for /clg/. Post translations and compare with others.
This is an excerpt from Cicero's Tusculan Disputations, Book 1, section 100. The main topic of the first book is whether death is evil and this passage encapsulates that theme quite well.
Cicero's daughter died before him and in his grief he retired to his villa to find consolation in writing. This work was written in that period and gives a good glimpse into the pain he was feeling and the steps he took to alleviate it.

[Anonymous No.20207866]

did you guys just brute force latin (read and look everything up)?
i was thinking of doing it but i'm burned out because of japanese

[Anonymous No.20207877]

>>20207792
holy fuck this is the most boring chapter so far kill me now

[Anonymous No.20208342]

>>20207877
Athenaze mogs this and I'm tired of pretending it doesn't

[Anonymous No.20209033]

>>20207477
Bored shitposters shitting up the board

[Anonymous No.20210328]

.

[Anonymous No.20211073]

>>20207792
>>20207877
Literally dropped Latin because this book is such a fucking slog. Moved on to other languages. Will come back to Latin some time in the future.

[Anonymous No.20211142]

Just read Livy's history of early Rome.
Feels like proto-marxism desu.
The whole thing was just "prolles/plebs want land; patricians/elites start a foreign war".

A lot of background is only related halfway through the book, which makes the significance of earlier parts easy to miss.
For instance the early Roman system of conscription isn't related early enough so someone with a background in late Roman history might easily misunderstand large parts of the book.
Similarly a background on early Roman tax structure is important to understand- if you just go in with pre-conceptions and modern views on say...income tax- you will (and I did) often miss the point.

Early on it's hard to separate the historical and mythical; this is just par for the course.
When the Romans refer rhetorically to Troy- at that point do they or do they not consider it to be history?
It's hard to know what people at the time believed.
Most of the religious change is also not mapped out despite frequently being referred to- so It's hard to know if religious events were normal and which were innovations or changes

I still believe the Aeneid is very accessible and would recommend reading it first because:
A. many later accounts will reference it implicitly, and it's important to know when it's being referenced
B. like the iliad it tainted later historical works- so you want to be suspicious where "history" seems to mirror it, often a later historian is just filling in blanks.

[Anonymous No.20211222]

>>20211073
As long as you understand key terminology to avoid projection you will be OK.
The biggest trap for new players is ascribing modern understanding to terms that have been translated into English.

You read "love" but that's a modern word- you need to know which word was originally used and what it meant.
A good translator walks a fine line between writing an inaccessible work half in Latin; and ascribing poorly fitting English words where no direct translation will fit.

This is why the first year of study is basically memorizing terminology

[Anonymous No.20211300]

>>20207792
>>20207877
>zoomer brain filtered by needing to concentrate for 16 minutes
Sad. To think the baby method is still not easy enough. Go watch TikToks for hours while Netflix plays in the background along with xQc

[Anonymous No.20211603]

>>20207877
It's on ok chapter I don't get the problem. Like 12 was nicer imo but it isn't that bad.

[Anonymous No.20211802]

>>20211142
I got only up to book III though I get what you're saying, but I still wouldn't go that far, at no point I felt the caste(not class even, let alone economic) of the patrician was questioned per se, more like a at times just struggle of the plebeians to get their just share in the booty and welfare of the state, I see it more as a pack of wolves where the big wolves do get to eat first but the other wolves don't just stand there timid and defeated but start growling when the big wolves bite too much.

[Anonymous No.20211865]

it's not worth it

[Anonymous No.20211869]

>>20211142
You make a very valid and interesting point. I'd like to point out nonetheless that if we are to trust the sources (which I believe is the case) we also have to remember that there's one key difference between standard Marxist dialectics and the history of Rome. The city, the state, its culture and ethos were completely, singlehandedly founded by the patricians as they were the very first inhabitants and initially shared, or so you could deduce, an equal condition within the community. In that respect you could closely compare it to, say, Sparta, with the key difference that Sparta does follow Hegelian/Marxist dialectics by subjugating the Messenians; this never happens in Rome as the plebeians are free citizens who just happened to join Rome later. Here's where Rome and Sparta part ways: if in Sparta the real dichotomy can be summarized as aristocrats and slaves (the Perioeci somehow elude the paradigm and seem to go about their business completely unaffected), it follows that the same should happen in Rome but the institutions and ethos of the latter make this completely meaningless, as plebs and aristocrats are all Roman citizens and all all share in the welfare of the community and the State (whereas the Perioeci, who as I was typing this I was almost inclined to compare to the bourgeoisie in Marxist terms, were not citizens of Sparta despite being free individuals). Roman slaves, per the usual classical norms, were not considered persons... so what we're getting at is, I believe, we can't talk of Marxist dialectics in Rome as it seems not to be true that there was an oppressed class. This unless, then again using Marxist jargon and ideas which I personally don't subscribe to at all, the real conclusion is that in modern societies being a citizen in the legal sense is not equivalent to actually being a full fledged citizen; this would imply that the mass of modern Perioeci are functionally serfs of the few Spartiatae, who are amongst themselves Homoioi, equals. Interesting.

[Anonymous No.20212020]

>>20211300
>Go watch TikToks for hours while Netflix plays in the background along with xQc

[Anonymous No.20212033]

languages with cases are a pain in the ass

[Anonymous No.20212045]

>>20212033
>anon tries to learn new languages
>learns that some of them have cases
>anon is angry
Many such cases

[Anonymous No.20212068]

>>20212045
i can read a lot of german
it doesn't change anything. it's still a pain in the ass

[Anonymous No.20212084]

>>20212033
for us western caselets especially, learning a case-heavy language from birth must be a great advantage e.g I think Slavs despite being further from us lexically from e.g Latin and Greek have an easier time mentally adapting to how they work, even after all these years I sometimes need to translate some Latin expression in my head in the equivalent preposition + noun

[Anonymous No.20212934]

Reading even someone like Livy makes me fear whether in ancient Greek one also encounters such hermetic, dry annalistic style, god dammit. Hope it's true that Greek should be milder in this regard.

[Anonymous No.20213157]

Does it make a difference if you start with Greek before Latin or vice versa?

[Anonymous No.20213202]

>>20213157
i started with greek and it was torture. learning latin after felt like stealing candy from a baby.

[Anonymous No.20214549]

>page 10 in 4 hours

[Anonymous No.20214760]

>>20214549
Why is the board so fast suddenly?

[Anonymous No.20215101]

>>20213157
I'm not sure, I learned Greek having never learned a language before. I'm not sure why Latin was always prescribed before Greek. It all depends on what you want to read, if you have no interest in Latin authors then I don't see how you'll be better off spending a year on a language you'll never use.

>>20212084
I thought the same thing but a Russian in a classics server I'm in says it's not really any easier, in fact he says that it's kind of worse since you know how much memorization you'll have to do

[Anonymous No.20215518]

>>20213202
is your native language a romance one?

[Anonymous No.20215765]

Is Lingua Latina a legitimate way to learn good latin? I am taking a 101 course at my university, but it feels lacking somehow, and I've just got Lingua Latina and it already feels like I'm learning the language after maybe 4 pages, compared to 4 very dull weeks in class. Of course it's worth it for the interaction, but the method in L.L. appears to be much more effective. The uni. class is using the oxford intro to latin.

Can someone speak to this? I want to be a good scholar here.

[Anonymous No.20215776]

>>20215765
Any book that helps you learn is a good way to learn. Go through both textbooks.

[Anonymous No.20215796]

>>20215765
isn't the oxford course another version of LLPSI. i may be confusing it with the cambridge one

[Anonymous No.20215812]

>>20211865
you're wrong son, it is worth it. It's all worth it

[Anonymous No.20216446]

Is there a site like realkana but for the Greek alphabet?

[Anonymous No.20216507]

>>20215765
There's a reason why your school is not using the LLPSI. It is not as effective as Wheelock and other Latin textbook mainstays. Learning Latin in a class room with emphasis on learning grammar is the best way to learn Latin. You can't be a good scholar if you can't describe what your talking about other than saying, "You know, the thing. The thingy that the thing." If reading the LLPSI helps you get goods grades and even get ahead, then you should definitely use it, but don't drop out because you are going to use le LLPSI instead.
Anything worth doing comes with a challenge. For me, I had to drill Latin and the other languages I learned for hours and hours. magnus, magni, magno.... sum, es, est... You learn to love the pain and the repetition, if you have what it takes anyway. There was a thread on this board last week about fountain pens. I highly recommend them for such practice. If not a fountain pen with nice paper, then a gel pen with any paper. I use a Pilot Metropolitan (entry level pen), Heart of Darkness ink, and Oxford BlacknRed notebooks. You can thank me later. Lots of repetition helps, and having as comfortable of an experience as possible makes it go along better. Sometimes, working in public helps, but don't be a weirdo with a fountain pen in public.

[Anonymous No.20216904]

>>20216507
>There's a reason why your school is not using the LLPSI.
no one has ever learned a language inside a school class

[Anonymous No.20216910]

>>20216507
>There's a reason why your school is not using the LLPSI.
no one has ever learned a language inside a classroom

[Anonymous No.20217116]

>>20205366
Duolingo now seems to put advertisements after every lesson. Fucking annoying.

[Anonymous No.20217261]

>>20215518
nope. not even an indo-european one

[Anonymous No.20217281]

>>20216910
true, aside from every latin scholar and priest, but who cares, ranieri is better than them anyway

[Anonymous No.20217422]

>>20217281
>ranieri
rent free
please kill yourself

[Anonymous No.20217516]

>>20216507
>You can't be a good scholar if...
stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.20217539]

>>20213202
I have to agree. I've been doing a lot of greek and now I'm doing some work on latin and it's way way easier.

[Anonymous No.20217604]

>>20217261
I'm guessing Semite. I was also guessing Turk, but it looks like that is inflected.

[Anonymous No.20217626]

Anons please be honest. How many of you can read in a Classical language at least semi comfortably? Is learning really worth the trouble when you have so many translations at hand?
I'm contemplating starting the LLPSI once I get my C1 in Italian.

[Anonymous No.20217631]

>>20217604
finno-ugric

[Anonymous No.20217714]

>>20217626
For latin you just need to learn the grammar and then grind anki decks of common words

[Anonymous No.20217722]

>>20217626
depends a lot on the author and the accumulated experience, as well as if you've already read the author once
e.g I can more or less read Caesar fluently and without translating in my head for 99% of it as well as e.g Latin wikipedia articles, but Livy is still another challenge, Tacitus even more

[Anonymous No.20217968]

>>20217631
Ahh. Forgot. That would have been a good guess too.

[Anonymous No.20218033]

Do you think there has ever been an anon in any of these threads who could read the metamorphoses?

[Anonymous No.20218075]

[Anonymous No.20218104]

>>20218075
yeah he's right

[Anonymous No.20218118]

>>20218104
this is the guy who posted that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oudgdh6tl00

he speaks arabic in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6EuVB-tg0I

[Anonymous No.20218121]

>>20218118
speaking isn't really relevant here not sure what your point is

[Anonymous No.20218123]

>>20218121
i wasn't trying to make a point. i just wanted to give some context

[Anonymous No.20218141]

>>20218033
there definitely were people like that last year

[Anonymous No.20218157]

>>20218123
nevermind i thought you posted those videos to invalidate his claim

[Anonymous No.20218737]

Why aren't you using sentence cards?

[Anonymous No.20218790]

>>20218737
Because I'm reading Cicero's letters

[Anonymous No.20218816]

>>20216507
The digression on fountain pens makes this seem like a bait post
Anyways good to see this thread is still 90% fags shitposting about elementary textbooks

[Anonymous No.20218822]

>>20218790
what stops you from making sentence cards from cicero's latters

[Anonymous No.20218863]

>>20218822
I prefer just re-reading the entire letter

[Anonymous No.20218899]

>>20218737
latin is a little bit easier when you're a brazilian who also happens to know some italian

lupus -> lobo (pt)
silva -> selva (pt)
cibum -> cibus -> cibo (it)

[Anonymous No.20218905]

>>20218790
What is your favorite of his letters so far?

[Anonymous No.20218978]

>>20218737
What are supposed to memorize from there?

[Anonymous No.20218990]

>>20218978
You're not supposed to memorize anything, you just try to read the sentence and if you know what it means you pass the card. If you don't know what it means you check the translation and try to figure out why you failed.

[Anonymous No.20218991]

>>20218816
>Anyways good to see this thread is still 90% fags shitposting about elementary textbooks
home

[Anonymous No.20218994]

>tfw going to start getting back into latin today
feels good bros

[Anonymous No.20218996]

>>20218978
not that dude but a high quality sentence card has only one word that you don't know

like this

front: Lupus in silva cibum quaerit
back: quaerere: look for, seek, ask (for)

[Anonymous No.20219024]

>>20218816
One has to start from somewhere fag

[Anonymous No.20219047]

>>20218899
It is even better when you know how to use correctly the declined pronouns in romance languages
Similar for verbs, except for the conditional mood, everything else is very similar, subjunctive too (Italian's passato remoto even gives you hints about the stem for perfect tenses quite often.)
>>20218990
Is it a deck for Anki? Does it include more stuff other than Familia Romana's sentences?

[Anonymous No.20219050]

>>20218905
I liked ad familiares 7.1 about Pompey's games. The Wheelock's reader arranges them chronologically with a sort of climax at the assassination of Julius Caesar and he sends a very short letter of approval to one of the conspirators that I also liked in the context of his longer letters: "tibi gratulor, mihi gaudeo; te amo, tua tueor; a te amari et, quid agas quidque agatur, certior fieri volo."

[Anonymous No.20219056]

>>20219024
and that apparently involves endless shitposting about the superiority of your selected textbook after reading 5-10 chapters

[Anonymous No.20219065]

>>20219047
It's a self-made Anki deck, there's not much point in using somebody else's sentences imo as you need to find those that fit exactly your level

[Anonymous No.20219088]

>>20218899
quaerere > querer
Not the same but it suggests the meaning

[Anonymous No.20219139]

>>20218978
I can say I find recalling ability to be higher with my custom Anki deck using example phrases with the word in context than with decks only showing an isolated word and their isolated translation.

[Anonymous No.20219274]

[tollit] saxa liquefacta

Can someone help? I don't understand their conjugation.

[Anonymous No.20219288]

>>20219274
O nevermind. The -facta is participle

So can I say liquified rocks?

[Anonymous No.20219365]

>>20219288
yeah that's the meaning, -factum builds all sorts of compound words for obvious reasons, literally the ancestor of -fied in english

[Anonymous No.20220304]

=

[Anonymous No.20221176]

Why is /lit/ fast now?

[Anonymous No.20221180]

>>20221176
It's actually dying, I make hundreds of rapid low investment posts to make it seem more lively like a bot server in a dead FPS

[Anonymous No.20221563]

Mega link doesn't work

[Anonymous No.20221606]

>>20221563
it does.

[Anonymous No.20221631]

>>20221606
Yeah my bad

[Anonymous No.20221646]

>>20221180
You should play Quake Live. I just came back after a couple years. It's more dead than when I left. Make Quake Great Again.

[Anonymous No.20221709]

>>20217714
>grind anki decks of common words
You brainlets would have never passed a Latin class for 10 year old boys in the middle ages.

[Anonymous No.20221716]

>>20221709
For reading any language all you need to know is the alphabet, the grammar and vocab. We're not in the Middle Ages and have no reason to write and speak Latin

[Anonymous No.20221738]

>>20221716
this

[Anonymous No.20221743]

>>20221709
any idea where i might find a medieval tutor for latin?

[Anonymous No.20222135]

I wanna get a head start before I start a Classics degree next year. What should I get for self-studying Latin before I no doubt get hammered with a bunch of grammar textbooks?

[Anonymous No.20222151]

>>20211300
I seriously doubt someone studying classical languages is your run of the mill tiktok zoomer.

[Anonymous No.20222162]

>>20222135
I'm sorta doing the same thing. I'm not going to take any Latin courses though. I'm just studying the language in my own time.

[Anonymous No.20222186]

>>20222135
https://app.memrise.com/course/30704/diederichs-latin-vocabulary/

[Anonymous No.20222346]

Anyone else kinda autistic about fonts? I got into them when I tried to improve my greek handwriting. Those Cambridge green and yellow editions use a really ugly modern font called "New Hellenic" which is such a strange choice to use for classics. Imagine reading Shakespeare with comic sans.

[Anonymous No.20222502]

>>20222346
>Imagine reading Shakespeare with comic sans.
A religious experience. You should try.

[Anonymous No.20222658]

>>20222186
This is good advice

[Anonymous No.20223116]

>>20221743
they left a couple of books for posterity

[Anonymous No.20223201]

>>20223116
10 year olds became fluent in latin in the middle ages by reading their books?

[Anonymous No.20223541]

>>20223201
yeah that's exactly what i meant

[Anonymous No.20223646]

>>20223541
Don't you feel that the same pedagogical methods that were used in universities and seminaries back then have disappeared and so also any fluent Latin speakers. The argument that people didn't use Anki in the middle ages is pretty retarded since you're unable to access that kind of education anymore. Even STEMcels were fluent in Latin up until the beginning of the 20th century, nowadays not even classics majors can conversate in Latin or Greek. Were people just that much better at acquiring languages back then?

[Anonymous No.20223687]

>>20222135
Grammar textbooks

For the love of God do not listen to the LLPSI morons, I know it's a meme but you are actually going to be expected to know things for real. Do LLPSI if you want but accompany it with serious study.

Start Greek as soon as you can.

If you just commit to studying every day, even mediocre studying, you could basically have a free 4.0 in a Classics major with infinite free time to study whatever else you want.

[Anonymous No.20223713]

>>20223646
>Were people just that much better at acquiring languages back then?
Porn was not that easily available.

[Anonymous No.20223746]

>>20223646
>Were people just that much better at acquiring languages back then?

Being conversational in Latin and Greek was useful. Now it isn't. That makes a big difference. Think of how many non-native speakers across the world become fluent in English. How many would bother just to read Shakespeare if English were of no professional use? Or without the cultural influence of the internet/tv/film industry.

[Anonymous No.20223772]

>>20223746
That's what I'm basically saying. To quote my previous post:
>you're unable to access that kind of education anymore

[Anonymous No.20223776]

>>20223646
Education as a whole has dropped off since then. Latin and Greek are just an obvious casualty

[Anonymous No.20223799]

>>20223646
>Don't you feel that the same pedagogical methods that were used in universities and seminaries back then have disappeared
To a certain extent, yes. The importance of memorizing texts/poems/prayers word for word is nowadays non-existent except in some religious communities.
>so also any fluent Latin speakers.
Yes. In the Medieval classroom both the teachers and students would exclusively use Latin. For the most part in modern universities, teaching is done in their native language with some exceptions such as the Polis Institute or that one school in Italy.
>didn't use Anki
Half way agree/disagree. Yes, as with Anki, memorization was extremely important but instead of confronting things piece by piece, the Medieval student had to memorize things as a whole. To be called Psalteratus, or someone who has memorized all 150 Psalms, meant to be literate. Besides the Psalms, student were expected to memorize poems about grammar rules as well, e.g. Villedieu's, a French grammarian, "Doctrinale" was extremely popular in all of Europe.
>Even STEMcels were fluent in Latin up
Kek yeah, I read somewhere how two WW1 enemy military commanders would talk about Vergil and recite things from memory during conversation. In addition, the 19/20th ce scientific/medical jargon was extracted from Ancient Greeks since they had a classical education.
>Were people just that much better at acquiring languages back then?
No, they were just more disciplined and had less distractions. Everyone, nowadays, has access to the internet and so they have endless resources to learning. Problem is that this wide selection causes people to become indecisive, trying to figure out the best method, having experienced this myself.

I recommend reading Black's "Humanism and Education in Medieval and Renaissance Italy: Tradition and Innovation in Latin Schools from the Twelfth to the Fifteenth Century" and Blackwell's "A Companion to Ancient Education" if you wish to apply their methods to your learning. Vale. (btw i jumped into the convo at >>20223116)

[Anonymous No.20223987]

>>20223713
You have to be a degenerate to draw out your masturbation sessions for hours each day so you can watch more porn. That's your problem, not society's. It's one thing if you take a long time to cum but it's another if you do that purposefully with any frequency.

[Anonymous No.20224584]

>>20218737
Because its retarded.

[Anonymous No.20225406]

>>20223687
Genuinely, please explain why LLPSI is a meme. I'm reading in accompaniment with oxford grammar & readings and I like it.

[Anonymous No.20225413]

>>20225406
He's a sperg who does nothing but cry about LLPSI all thread and he has never once given anybody real advice as to what to do. You will get no answers from him.

[Anonymous No.20225416]

Memoria habilitas est, et tunc apte exercitabatur

[Anonymous No.20225417]

>>20225406
Accompany*

[Anonymous No.20225425]

Memoria ars est, et tunc apte exercitabatur

[Anonymous No.20225568]

Cur lingua Latina tam difficilis discere est? Quia Romani toti mortui sunt! Ahaehaehae

[Anonymous No.20225575]

>>20225568
>linguam Latinam

[Anonymous No.20225629]

>>20225568
Roma urbs est, et etiam nunc stat, cum romanis suis vivis in ea.
Praeterea
>linguam Latinam tam difficilem

[Anonymous No.20225655]

I've been reading Descartes' "Regulae ad directionem ingenii" and it blows my mind how these fucks are so good in Latin that they can write about dense things in it. I'm ngmi.

[Anonymous No.20225658]

>>20225575
>>20225417

Videlicet, casus accusativus mihi valde difficilis est…

[Anonymous No.20225719]

>>20225568
>>20225575
Shouldn't the supine passive be used, like in
>Lingua latina difficilis dictu est
?
But since disco doesn't have a supine, would be ok to use the infinitive as the subject as they did?
>Cur linguam latinam tam difficile [in concordance with the infinitive] discere [subject] est?

[Anonymous No.20225745]

>>20225719
>difficile
This is probably correct, along the same lines as necesse est

[Anonymous No.20225751]

>>20225655
They used it constantly, probably they spent more time reading in Latin than in their native languages. Just think of all the ESL scholars who use English correctly.

[Anonymous No.20225760]

>>20225751
>Just think of all the ESL scholars who use English correctly.

I spent years editing scientific papers written by ESL researchers who wanted to publish in English journals. Based on this experience, I can only assume that medieval and early modern authors probably had godawful Latin.

[Anonymous No.20225767]

>>20225751
but English is dogshit easy.

[Anonymous No.20225789]

>>20225767
Its morphology it's easy, its syntax with its mandatory word order it's quite intricate.
Of course speaking broken English is easy, but that applies to any language imo.
t. ESL who can't write complex sentences

[Anonymous No.20225820]

>>20225789
dw amice, 98% of native English speakers can't either without creating a run on.
you do have a point however. i can instinctually know that "big red dog" is correct and not "red big dog" without even knowing the rule behind ordering adjectives. having said that, instinct can only take you so far before you commit a solecism, especially if you try to write in a lengthy, erudite manner, no matter the language.

[Anonymous No.20225864]

>>20225820
I believe (actually I hope kek) complex morphology makes syntax easier, and vice versa, a simpler morphology needs a more complex syntax.
Cases must have been more or less intuitive, too, just like word order is for you. For example, Romance speakers usually make a correct use of oblique pronouns, which still differentiate between accusative and dative.
The perceived difficulty of classical languages depends probably on the kind of texts that are usually read, too. I've tried reading some Shakespeare and I've been filtered out.

[Anonymous No.20225874]

>>20225864
>make a correct use
>a
This is wrong, isn't it

[Anonymous No.20225889]

In Latin, long vowels become short vowels in some positions
>monēō* --> moneō
>laudās but laudat
How is this phenomenon called? Is it systematic or predictable?

[Anonymous No.20225909]

>>20225889
pg 4 of wheelocks says:
if a vowel is normally long
1) but before another vowel, it is shortened
>>monēō* --> moneō
2) or before -m, -r, -t at the end of a word
>>>laudās but laudat

[Anonymous No.20225920]

>>20205573
Have, cinaede!

[Anonymous No.20225935]

>>20225909
Thanks fren.
I tried searching 'vowel reduction' but that's when some vowels becomes and i in the middle of a word (facio -> interficio)

[Anonymous No.20225985]

>>20225935
Np. Wheelocks never gave a term for this. Just stated it as a rule.

[Anonymous No.20226033]

>>20207855
May we also grasp (i.e. understand), so that we may think nothing to be evil which was given to all by nature, and may we understand, if death is evil itself, that evil is eternal. For death seems to be the end of miserable life; if death is miserable, there can be no end. But why do I commemorate Socrates and Theramanenes, men of outstanding virtue and with the glory of knowledge, when one Lacedaemonius, whose name is not in fact known well, hated death so greatly, that, when he was being led to it, having been sentenced by the Ephori, he was happy with a cheerful expression and his own enemy said to him: "do you look down on the laws of Lycurgus?" he responded: "I truly have the greatest regard for him, since he sentenced me to that punishment, which I could pay back without negotiation and without a loan." O Sparta of proper men! He was of so great a soul, that in fact an innocent man seems to me to have been sentenced. Our city has brought countless (of them).

I imagine this is better in context. Had to look up sempiternus, Theramenes, Ephori, versura.

[Anonymous No.20226044]

I took a look at ancient plays in the Syracuse theater and it looks totally overdone and cringe?

[Anonymous No.20226267]

>>20225874
Yes. Omit a

[Anonymous No.20226279]

>>20221716
Who said you had a reason to speak Latin? The post you are replying to was saying that Anki is unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.20226293]

>>20226279
unnecessary but helpful

[Anonymous No.20226416]

>>20226279
It's by far the most effective way to learn vocabulary for any language but you do you

[Anonymous No.20226814]

Good resources on Attic Greek accents? The section on them in Introduction to Attic Greek doesn't even try to make sense and just tells me to reread it over and over until I magically understand how the language works

[Anonymous No.20226888]

>>20226814
I found this explanation pretty spot on
http://atticgreek.org/accent/accentuation.html
especially the whole principle of contonation as the base for all of the rules basically

[Anonymous No.20226901]

>>20226888
https://youtu.be/P0WrVZWvvls
Yeah I watched this video and I'm kind of comfortable with the rules now. It's not too complicated

[Anonymous No.20227549]

are there any good Latin/Greek grammar primers that fairly concisely teach grammatical fundamentals so that you can then just move onto reading material and memorising vocab?

[Anonymous No.20227606]

Any of you have any experience learning another romance language after learning Latin?
I heard learning Latin really helps understanding grammar and vocabulary through etyomlogy and I'm interested in learning to read in French, Italian and Spanish. I feel like it's easier to fail with Latin due to the less materials and zero practice oportunities, so should I learn one of the other three frist and then Latin or the other way around?

[Anonymous No.20227627]

greekbros I need a quick reality check, couple questions
let's say I have this phrase
>Cyrus arrived to Sardis before Croesus understood what was going on
I translate it as
>Ὁ Κῦρος ἀφίκετο εἰς Σάρδεις πρὶν ἐπίστασθαι τὸν Κροῖσον τί γίγνοιτο.
couple questions:
is the use of the optative correct here? I understand the indirect speech with a main clause in the past typically requires the optative, even though in this case there's a double accusative use due to πρίν so I'm not 100% sure
also I understand I should be using the present because the phrase implies a continuative aspect(i.e still going on), but say the phrase was
>...before Croesus understood what had happened
in this case the perfective aspects would seem appropriate, but should I use the appropriate conjugation from γέγονα or γεγένημαι? e.g γεγόνοι vs γεγενημένον εἴη??

[Anonymous No.20227642]

>>20227606
There's no point learning a language for the sake of learning another language, only learn Latin if you'll actually use it

[Anonymous No.20227663]

>>20227642
If I get to learn it I will definitely use it, it's just a question of whether I should go first with it or leave it for last since it's more complicated and I'm guessing you have to be a lot more comitted to learn it.
Also, my motivation towards all those languages is reading, but since I would like to take official exams in the future I would go for the standard language learning method (at the very least with French).

[Anonymous No.20227697]

>>20227663
I mean all the romance languages make eachother easier to learn, I don't have a strong grasp of French but the studying I did of it in school made Latin easier to grasp. I'd say just learn the one you really want to know first and think about the others after. Unless you're planning on a long roadtrip across Europe you probably wouldn't be able to use every language in one holiday so just pick the language of the country you want to visit the most I guess. And if you're a big /lit/fag go for Latin, you don't even need to worry about pronunciation because you're highly unlikely to talk to anyone in it so that'll save a bunch of time

[Anonymous No.20227711]

>>20226044
Did you mean to ask a question? I saw only Agamemnon, since that's all that was available previously, done by the BBC in Greece to it's full authenticity (minus speaking Greek), and it was amazing. I think going all out to recreate a play is a good thing.
https://youtu.be/mdv3vkECqXA

[Anonymous No.20228801]

>>20227549
>I want everything for nothing

[Anonymous No.20228856]

>>20227711
That looks good
Im gonna be seeing the agamemnon in the Syracuse theater. I hope it's not too baroque and liberal an interpretation

[Anonymous No.20228919]

Yeah, fuck you too, Glagolic!

[Anonymous No.20229020]

>>20228801
no, I want maximum results for minimum effort, which is different.

[Anonymous No.20229109]

>>20229020
sorry to tell you but you're never going to make it

[Anonymous No.20229236]

>>20225655
Nice recc. I've been skimming over it and it seems that a few still apply today. For example, his first rule which states that one should learn from as many different areas as possible instead of specializing in one in order to expand one's scope and maximize the speed at which one acquires new things since knowing one area will inevitability help in another. In other words, shilling the effects of neuroplasticity 300 years before it was accepted by neurologists as a real thing.

[Anonymous No.20230366]

>>20228919
is that a spaceship and alienhead?

[Anonymous No.20230841]

Does Latin really rival French for "greatest literary language of all time"?

[Anonymous No.20230867]

>>20225655
Descartes had a Jesuit education in which the first four years were dedicated to acquiring Latin and Ancient Greek in both the passive and active sense. Teachers as well as the students could only speak in Latin. No French, in the oral and written form, was allowed.

[Anonymous No.20231691]

>>20230841
What do you mean by "literary language?" How elegant and beautiful it is? I'd argue that as far as literary traditions go (Ancient) Greece and Germany mog them. Also many Roman authors still wrote in Greek because they thought it was better.

[Anonymous No.20231918]

>>20230841
why on earth is French up there in your eyes? like 1 century at best vs a thousand years

[Anonymous No.20232128]

>>20230841
French isn't even up there. The greatest literary languages are Japanese (for your dick) and Latin (for your mind).

[Anonymous No.20232201]

>>20232128
and Greek (for your soul)

[Anonymous No.20232289]

>>20228919
Just started poking around Old Bulgarian (Old Church Slavonic if you don't want to trigger people) and it's quite literally CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES

[Anonymous No.20232591]

Much better chapter than the snoozefest that was 13 thank god

[Are Shanks and Co. secretly ev(...) No.20232688]

>>20230841

Molière, Camus, Dumas, Balzac, Hugo, Verne, Maupassant, and motherfucking Marcel Proust say "bonjour, et va te faire foutre!"

You monolingual midwit.

[Anonymous No.20232715]

>>20232688
seriously having a hard time wrapping my mind around this response

[Are Shanks and Co. secretly ev(...) No.20232947]

>>20232715

Disregard that, I suck lol

[Anonymous No.20233208]

>>20232289
Seems extremely interesting linguistically but is there anything written in it besides the Bible and lived of the saints or whatever

[Anonymous No.20234056]

>>20232591
Has anybody here managed to finish it?

[Anonymous No.20234066]

>>20227606
All I can tell is that knowing romance languages helps immensely to learn other romance languages.

[Anonymous No.20234628]

[Anonymous No.20234667]

>>20234628
>xpiotoc aveotn ek vekpwv,
>0avatw 0avatov ttatnoas,
>kai toic ev toic uvnuaoi,
>zwnv xapioauevos!
what the fuck does it mean

[Anonymous No.20234801]

>>20234667
This is from an Easter Orthodox hymn. It means "Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and to those in the tombs, granting life" Also if you want to transliterate it to the Latin script it would be Christos Anesti ek nekron, thanato thanaton patisas, kai tis en tis mnimasi zoin harisamenos.

[Anonymous No.20235635]

>>20234667
nigga pulls up to a classical languages thread and acts like he’s never seen greek before

[Anonymous No.20235717]

>>20233208
The majority of what survives is religious texts translated from Greek originals.
But we also have royal charters, some historical texts, some polemic texts, especially from the 9th century. Sadly, a lot has been destroyed during the centuries, but I think we have plenty of interesting things left.

[Anonymous No.20235820]

>>20234056
Nobody in this thread

[Anonymous No.20236062]

Some interesting and not that hard Latin texts here.
vatican.va/latin/latin_index.html

[Anonymous No.20236474]

>"If the Romans had been obliged to learn Latin, they would never have found time to conquer the world."
>Heinrich Heine, 19th Century German poet

[Anonymous No.20236551]

𒀀

[Anonymous No.20237125]

sursum

[Anonymous No.20237163]

>>20236474
That's thoroughly retarded. Latin is not that hard to learn.
t. a guy who has learning disabilities that, supposedly, make language acquisition difficult.

[Anonymous No.20237182]

>>20234667
οὐκ τῲ ἵξεις

[Anonymous No.20237220]

>>20211869
>>20211142
What leftist bullshit is this? There is no proto communism or marxism in ancient times. If you read that into the text you are hallucinating. The Spartans entire state is founded on having a broad slave population to work for them so they could maintain their standing army (the only non levy one on the planet at that time of history). Saying they were protocommunist because they preached their own men to disregard riches is like saying a cat must be a cow, because she has brown hair.

[Anonymous No.20237234]

>>20215765
Llpsi is great for learning words and stuff, but you need a second source to explain you the grammatical stuff. Them llpsi becomes really great, otherwise you will just be able to read, but not speak or write it well.

[Anonymous No.20237244]

>>20237234
>not speak or write it well.
why the fuck would i want to speak or write fucking latin

[Anonymous No.20237280]

>>20217626
I am still learning latin and the next one will be old greek.
You have some advantages learning them to proficiency as far as I could deduce:
- not everything is translated. Good luck reading what you are interested in if the only translated copy of an obscure writer now costs several hundred bucks while the original can be found for free on the internet.
- sometimes the translations suck. Some people dont get what they are translating and distort the meaning and some things are almost untranslatable.
-there is a growing group of assholes that write translations that distort the original to fit their politics. Just look at that asshole woman that made this horrible translation of the Illiad that suddenly had feminist and leftist undertones.
- writing your important notes in a dead language is a great cockblock for people trying to read your stuff. I hate it whenpeople glimpse on my notes. My plan is to write business plans or very personal stuff in old greek when I am good enough with it. I will never be so important that someone would employ one of the few translators of that field for my notes. And if I ever become so important after my death that people want to read it (which most likely will never happen) it is in a language that can be translated even thousand years in the future with no big problems.

[Anonymous No.20237285]

>>20237244
why not? it's fun to write things down in Latin and it deepens your understanding of the language

[Anonymous No.20237301]

>>20237244
Why not? It is actually a very thriving language for being... dead. There are conventions around the world where you only speak latin, more and more people want something translated into latin for tv shows and videogames, hell you can even earn a living as translator for the press, translating the stuff the pope and his people say, since they still speak clerical latin all the time.

[Anonymous No.20237379]

>>20237280
The last point could be achieved by simply developing some kind of cipher or even a new alphabet.

[Anonymous No.20237466]

>>20237220
>is like saying a cat must be a cow
Kek in which world do you live? It's already a crime to deny that a man becomes a woman after chopping of his dick.

[Anonymous No.20237524]

>>20237379
you dont know much about encoding, do you? Both your suggestions could be decoded within minutes, even wirhout a pc.

[Anonymous No.20237533]

>>20237466
>Kek in which world do you live?
In the world outside of Twitter.

[Anonymous No.20237623]

>>20237524
And so could the text if you use Latin or Greek.

[Anonymous No.20237870]

Kal našparī ša qê šunu Ummān-manda ša pagrīšunu uparraṣū

[Anonymous No.20238258]

>>20237533
There has been people fined just for "misgendering" in several countries. You can be judged for "hate speech". And Westoids still keep burying their heads in the sand. Holy fucking kek. You're finished.

[Anonymous No.20238754]

>>20236062
link doesnt work for me

[Anonymous No.20239565]

Learning to write and speak Latin is a waste of time, basically a LARP. You only need to learn to read it to access texts written when it was a common language. Contemporary Latin is just us following grammar rules and syntax, but we will never know what a native Latin speaker would deem correct or not. You could say that it’s okay for Latin to evolve, but then you couldn’t call it Latin anymore at that point, could you?

[Anonymous No.20240642]

>>20237623
please show me an ancient greek online translator.

[Anonymous No.20240646]

>>20238258
Well, does not stop me from doing it. There is no push back if you dont push back.

[Anonymous No.20240654]

lišān Rūma imūt, libluṭ lišān Rūma!

[Anonymous No.20240942]

>>20238754
Sorry
https://www.vatican.va/latin/latin_index.html

[Anonymous No.20241084]

>>20211300

[Anonymous No.20241359]

>>20241084
transition going well I see. Pre-op?

[Anonymous No.20241383]

>>20237163
I have had a stroke and i'm learning Latin partly as mental exercise. Its not easy.

[Anonymous No.20242564]

Bumperino

[Anonymous No.20242960]

>>20222151
im a run of the mill tik tok zoomer

[Anonymous No.20243908]

βἀμπ

[Anonymous No.20243982]

Is it a stupid idea to print out conjugation charts for referencing? Would it be better to try to memorise them?

[Anonymous No.20244013]

>>20243982
I mean, is it worth the time trying to memorize them - it feels that it might make me lazy.

[Anonymous No.20244527]

>>20241383
I didn't have a stroke, but I do have a permanent issue with my brain, would rather not get into it lest I continue to dox myself. I was young, so I have neuroplasticity going for me, which probably isn't the case for you. Sorry to hear about your health issue, and I hope that learning Latin helps you out. Although I am now saying goodbye, I will instead say salve.

[Anonymous No.20244543]

>>20240642
Google Translate does Latin pretty well. There are other AI translators out there too. It's actually a big thing in Classics these days.

[Anonymous No.20245241]

>>20243982
Write them yourself. Works better for memorization

[Anonymous No.20246291]

>>20245241
why not anki

[Anonymous No.20246411]

>>20246291
You used Anki for conjugations? I didn't find it very effective.

[Anonymous No.20246420]

>>20246411
how many verbs do you write down?

[Anonymous No.20246491]

>>20246420
I don't count them but while I'm watching a movie or garbage on YouTube I take a page of squared paper and focus on mid. ind. aor. for example and write all the conjugations down until the paper full. Then repeat with a new form or continue with the old if I feel like I need to do more drills.

[Anonymous No.20246719]

>>20246291
Writing things down is better. Maybe it's the extra time it takes, maybe it has something to do with the physical act creating a connection.
Write your own conjugation cards and study them. once in a while rewrite conjugations from memory. You don't need to do so for every verb, just a few sample ones for each conjugation and variants and some of the irregulars. It will seal it in your mind much better than anki.

[Anonymous No.20246763]

>>20222151
>>20242960
I'm a zoomer by age, but I do not fit the typical characterization of zoomers. By that, I mean I am not a memer or Tik Toker. Obviously, there are other students in my Classics courses, and I have gotten to know them a bit. The Tik Tok zoomers are not the best in the class. Some of them have aspirations of graduate school, but they lack merit.
P.S. I think there is more to zoomers than the memes, but that is a discussion for another time.

[Anonymous No.20246997]

>>20205366
I want to get into med school. Is learning Latin just a meme or will it actually help me more than picking up another minor?

[Anonymous No.20247008]

>>20222151
I am a zoomer and I am learning Latin
I unironically love house music and think tiktok is funny.

[Anonymous No.20247017]

>>20247008
Based

[Anonymous No.20247263]

>>20246997
Honestly, I think it is a meme. I might be helpful for law when it comes to understanding terms AND phrasing things in the proper legalistic manner. In medicine, having a really high GPA, experience in the health field, and science majors help.
t. my brother failed once but got into a very good school the second time.

[Anonymous No.20247513]

>>20247263
I'm starting to think learning Latin isn't for me. I like how it pushes my cognitive abilities and memorization but I could easily just do math and science instead.

[Anonymous No.20247562]

https://archive.fo/yPcW9

[Anonymous No.20247683]

>>20247562
Delete this post. We call it The Ranieri-dowling method nowadays.

[Anonymous No.20247709]

>>20247562
im on the subjunctive passive. almost there bros...

[Anonymous No.20247749]

>>20247709
do you type it or write it down?

[Anonymous No.20247759]

>>20247749
each paradigm 100 times by hand

[Anonymous No.20247767]

>>20247759
gay
i'm not serious about learning latin so i'll just type them on anki

[Anonymous No.20247769]

>>20247562
Thank you for this article. I will read later.

[Anonymous No.20247898]

>>20247767
Different anon here. You'll be wasting your time. Don't bother with Anki. Just forget about learning Latin if you aren't serious. It's not like a modern language where you can take it easy and not worry about anything.

[Anonymous No.20247909]

>>20247898
maybe for an angloid

[Anonymous No.20249375]

ὁ αἴλουρος τρώγει

[Anonymous No.20249905]

>>20249375
I can't read that. It's in Greek

[Anonymous No.20250621]

>>20247008
>house music
Are we in 2010?

[Anonymous No.20250916]

>>20212045
underrated

[Anonymous No.20251258]

>>20249375
σοῦ ἑλληνιστί καλόν ἐστίν

[Anonymous No.20251494]

>>20247759
can you be more specific? do you sit down and then write it down 100 times or do you write it down 100 times on different days? if it's the former how many times do you do that?

[Anonymous No.20251526]

>>20247008
Zoomer speak is going to be the koine of the english language onn god fr no cap bruh.

[Anonymous No.20252167]

>>20251526
if zoomer speak is today's koine, then who is our Alexander?

[Anonymous No.20252196]

>>20252167
Princess Leonor de Borbón y Ortiz

[Anonymous No.20252231]

>>20252167
Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos.

[Anonymous No.20253288]

>>20252231
Kek