/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20189866]

Neither religion nor atheism appeal to me. Any books about a third position?
Pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.20189870]

Yes, Neo-Marxism. Truth likes neither in Science nor the Spiritual but in History and Language and its dialectical unfurling. See: Walter Benjamin and Theodor Adorno.

[Anonymous No.20189872]

>>20189866
>>20189870
Extremely gay

[Anonymous No.20189874]

>>20189870
Political ideology doesn't appeal to me
>>20189872
No you

[Anonymous No.20189881]

>>20189874
It's not political. Benjamin draws from Kabbalist tradition to present a unique philosophy of History. Adorno in turn draws from Benjamin re: the Spiritual aspect but supplements it with more rigorous dialectical argumentation.

[Anonymous No.20189885]

>>20189881
I don't feel a sense of inherent significance from history, which might be why abrahamic religions do nothing for me in the first place

[Anonymous No.20189894]

>>20189885
You don't think the passage of Time is inherently significant to discussions of Truth and Revelation? Sounds like you're retarded, and need to go back to basics before posting pics of Nietzsche kek.

[Anonymous No.20189899]

>>20189894
No because I don't believe in revelation. Stop seething just because I don't care for your worldview you child

[Anonymous No.20189904]

>>20189899
Any worldview you subscribe to is going to proffer some variant of revelation, religious or not. You're just too retarded to grasp the basic concepts guiding both religious and non-religious thought. Go back to 'Charlotte's Web'.

[Anonymous No.20189920]

>>20189866
Nietzche isn't exactly either of those so I don't see why he wouldn't be a good person to read.

[Anonymous No.20189922]

>>20189866
John Gray’s Seven Kinds of Atheism.
The thesis is that atheism is older and more varied than contemporary atheism, and that it isn’t necessarily the opposite of religion. It’s written for a popular audience, so no background needed.

[Anonymous No.20189930]

>>20189922
Types of Atheism, not Kinds of Atheism.
Excuse me.

[Anonymous No.20189940]

>>20189904
>my narrative applies to everything
Where have I seen this before

[Anonymous No.20189957]

>>20189866
What about Singularitarianism? A superintelligent AI would, for all intents and purposes, be a God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYbA1pt8LA

[Anonymous No.20189962]

>>20189922
Tl;dr on what types of atheism there are? How do you not believe in supernatural in multiple ways?

[Anonymous No.20189964]

>>20189866
Mitchell Heisman's suicide note

Here's the link to the text:
https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/suicide_note.pdf
(Read pp. 32 - 625)

TL;DR: https://www.scribd.com/document/198985140/Mitchell-Heisman-s-suicide-note-overview

Alternatively you can listen to it while gaming: https://youtu.be/BiMZi5P7WJA

Part 2:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkg6y0uFLHOyAX4BlU6tlnp1qW4l2aFEA

[Anonymous No.20189966]

>>20189940
Where did I say that? Peak retardation.

[Anonymous No.20189974]

>>20189866
Agnosticism?

maybe try David Hume's Skepticism or Cartesian Rationalism?

[Anonymous No.20189983]

>>20189866
That's what classical philosophy is for. Start with Celsus.

[Anonymous No.20189989]

>>20189966
>backpedaling
You have nothing of value to contribute, just fuck off

[Anonymous No.20189992]

Just become an egomaniac like me

[Anonymous No.20189998]

>>20189992
He already is one

[Anonymous No.20190006]

They sang the song that elevated humanity. Hundreds of thousands of inspired voices emerged from the global crisis and spoke powerful testimony about the value of life and the wonder of the universe. Their communications would touch the souls of billions and inspire incredible personal and social transformations. They would give birth to a generation of creatives that would outshine even them.
The name of this event would be known as "The Memetic Singularity."

[Anonymous No.20190007]

>>20189989
Ironic - can't back up an accusation. Has contributed nothing whatsoever. Stay mad, faggot.

[Anonymous No.20190014]

>>20189922
John Gray is dangerously based, I loved Straw Dogs. For an atheist he sure is unrelenting in his critique of certain utopian or quasi-religious trends in atheistic thought.

[Anonymous No.20190019]

secular koranism

[Anonymous No.20190077]

>>20190019
Based
Gaddafi did nothing wrong

[Anonymous No.20190176]

The "spiritual but not religious" crowd unironically have the right idea. They're just too retarded to see past their new age nonsense which is just rehashing religious thinking

[Anonymous No.20190263]

>>20190176
>The "spiritual but not religious" crowd unironically have the right idea.
What's the right idea?

[Anonymous No.20190291]

>>20190263
That you can be non religious without falling for the physicalism meme, and that religions are just control structures, not the actual truth. Of course this is an extremely unpopular opinion on /lit/ because many people here are into fundamentalist christianity and guenonian traditionalism

[Anonymous No.20190302]

>>20190291
Don't worry anon it's very popular with teenage girls so you have your intellectual companions somewhere.

[Anonymous No.20190312]

>>20190302
Case in point.

[Anonymous No.20190321]

>>20189866
This thread sucks

[Anonymous No.20190329]

>>20190302
>>20190312
Notice how there are never any actual arguments against that point of view, just juvenile gotchas. It makes larpers seethe to no end.

[Anonymous No.20190344]

>>20190321
Taoism is a religion, chinks don't make the distinction between the philosophy and the surrounding folklore

[Anonymous No.20190370]

A "third position" implies there is a dichotomy between religion and atheism. Atheism itself is a religion so there certainly cannot be a third position.

[Anonymous No.20190384]

>>20190291
>>20190329
And what is the problem with “control”? How do you think discipline, focus, mastery are attained? How can a community, a State function without such a control?

[Anonymous No.20190386]

>>20190384
Control in a worldly sense. You don't need external institutions in order to have self-discipline. Especially when said institutions don't actually provide you with the truth.

[Anonymous No.20190395]

>>20189866
>a third position?
https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/myth-as-meth/
"Fantasy is zombie scripture, the place where our ancient assumptions lurch in the semblance of life. The fantasy writer is the voodoo magician, imbuing dead meaning with fictional presence. This resurrection can either facilitate our relation to the actual world, or it can pre-empt it. Science and technology are the problem here. The mastery of deep information environments enables ever greater degrees of shallow information capture. As our zombie natures are better understood, the more effectively our reward systems are tuned, the deeper our descent into this or that variety of fantasy becomes. This is the dystopic image of Akratic society, a civilization ever more divided between deep and shallow information consumers, between those managing the mechanisms, and those captured in some kind of semantic cheat space."

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/scratching-my-duck-quack/
"A ‘book,’ remember, is simply conceptual shorthand for families of related readings. Once you realize that the meaning is all in the audience’s collective head, then you can see the perils of using formal resemblances as your yardstick for grouping what belongs to what.
The crazy remarkable thing about fantasy literature is the way it utilizes the forms of premodern scripture to do something diametrically opposite. Where scripture is the truest of the true literature, fantasy is the falsest of the false. Similar forms, completely different sets of cognitive committments, and drastically different cultural roles. This is why I think fantasy is kind of canary in the cultural coalmine: nowhere do we see the socio-historical rupture of the Enlightenment with greater clarity. Use the kinds of anthropomorphic ontologies you find in preEnlightenment scriptures to structure your fictional settings and you find yourself writing the most fictional fiction."

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/truest-of-the-true-falsest-of-the-false/
"I see epic fantasy as a kind of ‘scripture otherwise.’ A large part of its appeal lies in its iteration of anthropocentric worlds, ontologies that serve our default understanding of the world. All fiction caters to the vagaries of human cognition, but none to such an extent. As such, epic fantasy possesses tremendous social and cultural significance, recording, at almost every turn, the antagonism between modernity and the human soul."

[Anonymous No.20190436]

>>20189866
History.

[Anonymous No.20190446]

>>20190370
>Atheism itself is a religion

[Anonymous No.20190463]

>>20190386
You do need controlling institutions to impose discipline, order and stability into any community if one wishes this community to attain autonomy. This is especially crucial when it comes to societies. It’s like you wanted to reach self discipline indulging in your lower and immediate impulses.

[Anonymous No.20190483]

>>20190463
And? This has nothing to do with spirituality.

[Anonymous No.20190489]

>Third position
I dont like my light switch being on or off, is there a third position ?

[Anonymous No.20190493]

>>20190483
I made the analogy to make it even clearer. But then tell me what is spirituality according to you.

[Anonymous No.20190514]

>>20190493
The connection to what transcends the worldly/material.

[Anonymous No.20190526]

>>20190514
How is this connection made? What are the means?

[Anonymous No.20190537]

>>20190463
Hey zoomer christcuck. Europe thrived in spite of christianity, not because of it. Christianity today is mostly a religion of niggers and spics and is dying off in Europe — Deus vult

[Anonymous No.20190541]

>>20190526
Depends on the individual. I know where you're going with this, and I will not concede that your systems are necessary, no need to waste your time and mine

[Anonymous No.20190544]

>>20189866
>a third position?
http://rantswithintheundeadgod.blogspot.com/2012/10/darwinism-and-natures-undeadness.html

"Natural forces are neither alive nor dead, in the senses given by the old intuition. Nevertheless, those forces do the work of God, but without being God and indeed without being alive even in the modern scientific respect. These forces, then, are undead, as are their products such as you and me, which is to say that the zombie stands as the best symbol for our intuitions to latch onto as we come to grips with the philosophical implications of Darwinism.
What is it to be undead? The word “undead” means that the undead thing is technically dead but somehow reanimated so that the corpse doesn’t stay dead. Undeadness is like spacetime, in that an undead thing has some attributes of the living and of the nonliving, but isn’t the same as either, given the old, naive way of thinking about them. Just as the concept of spacetime undermines the Newtonian theory of the absolute (observer-independent) dimensions of space and time, the concept of undeadness undermines the theistic myth of the gulf between living spirit and dead matter."

"Indeed, this philosophical implication of Darwinism, that the ordinary notions of life and nonlife no longer make sense and that they need to be replaced by something like the idea of a baffling state of living death, amounts to an ironic, postmodern kind of pantheism. Darwinism not only zombifies but deifies all of nature, since the evolutionary process encompasses the cosmic preconditions of the emergence of life so that the whole universe is required to create life in a mindless, natural fashion. There is no personal God, but the universe as a whole in all of its interconnectedness does yield organisms as byproducts, as though the universe were a creator god. Nature as a whole isn’t personal, but social creatures like us will inevitably anthropomorphize evolutionary patterns. The divinity of nature is no majestic thing, since the cosmos is best understood as an undead monstrosity."

[Anonymous No.20190554]

>>20190541
Where am I going? I’m simply asking you questions but it seems you’re too insecure of your own beliefs. I already know they are retarded gnostic puritanism, anyway.

>>20190537
Cool, not a christian, though I think courtly and troubadour traditions were noble.

[Anonymous No.20190560]

>>20190537
>You do need controlling institutions to impose discipline
>>Hey zoomer christcuck

Not him, but:

https://aeon.co/essays/aztec-moral-philosophy-didnt-expect-anyone-to-be-a-saint
"This little episode illustrates two aspects of Aztec virtue ethics that distinguish it from ‘Western’ forms, such as Plato’s or Aristotle’s. The first is that I did not overcome my vice so much as manage it. The second is that I didn’t manage it on my own, but rather did so (almost entirely) with the help of another person.
While Plato and Aristotle were concerned with character-centred virtue ethics, the Aztec approach is perhaps better described as socially-centred virtue ethics. If the Aztecs were right, then ‘Western’ philosophers have been too focused on individuals, too reliant on assessments of character, and too optimistic about the individual’s ability to correct her own vices. Instead, according to the Aztecs, we should look around to our family and friends, as well as our ordinary rituals or routines, if we hope to lead a better, more worthwhile existence."

[Anonymous No.20190563]

>>20190554
>gnostic puritanism
lmao what the fuck? Thanks for confirming I shouldn't waste my time on you, disingenuous little faggot

[Anonymous No.20190564]

>>20189998
Projection

[Anonymous No.20190565]

>>20190554
>not a christian
>still whines about the "gnostic" boogeyman only christards give a fuck about
Sure thing buddy.

[Anonymous No.20190571]

>>20190384
That’s the point, the state is Baal mammon, you are a slave of Babylon

[Anonymous No.20190578]

>>20190489
Based

[Anonymous No.20190585]

>>20190489
>>20190578
Stop getting your light from a bulb, get it from the sun

[Anonymous No.20190599]

>>20190565
Christians are gnostic. Do you think Nietzsche was respectful of gnosticism?

>>20190563
Yeah sure the pure individual who can attain alone spiritual awakening without any taint of social, natural operation.

>>20190571
The state can be “Baal mammon” whatever the fuck you mean by this, when it is lax, idealistic, cherishing lower values. The State must serve the higher individual.

[Anonymous No.20190615]

>>20190007
Shut the fuck up fanatic. You believing in dumb shit doesn't make it real, believable, meaningful, or reasonable.

[Anonymous No.20190634]

>>20190291
Isn’t that just individualism?

[Anonymous No.20190638]

Psst kid... wanna try some panentheism? The first one is free.

[Anonymous No.20190640]

>>20190638
Acosmism is better

[Anonymous No.20190668]

True spirituality can only be attained through radical materialism (not the retarded material idealism, thinking substances, particles are real), but ye are not prepared to it.

[Anonymous No.20190690]

>>20190668
Tell me more

[Anonymous No.20190754]

>>20190585
Kill 'em.

[Anonymous No.20190813]

>>20190690
I’m afraid it is too esoteric to be posted here anon

[Anonymous No.20190830]

>>20190813
Do it anyway

[Anonymous No.20190886]

>>20189866
What a failure.
You don't explain why they don't appeal and no one asked.

[Anonymous No.20191039]

>>20189866
Idiot

[Anonymous No.20191111]

>>20191039
Seethe harder

[Anonymous No.20191129]

>>20189866
Checked. Christ is the truth and not a religion.

[Anonymous No.20191156]

>>20191129
Fuck off lmao

[Anonymous No.20191167]

>>20191156
No :). If we were to merge our consciousness we'd merge along the lines of the Gospels, which is being.

[christcuck !BRtcYR7eHM No.20191183]

>>20191156
Let's see how this goes

[Anonymous No.20191379]

>>20189881
Why not just go with Hegel, Bataille and Derrida?

[Anonymous No.20191959]

>>20191183
Please don't

[Anonymous No.20191977]

>>20190291
>t.

[Anonymous No.20192192]

>>20189870
>let's take the worst parts of religion and the worst parts of atheism and mix them together
Not exactly what OP had in mind I'm pretty sure

[Anonymous No.20192530]

>>20189870
Incredibly cringe

[Anonymous No.20192581]

>>20189870
>muh historical materialism
Ironically that is such a gay level of schizo it actually makes nietzche look virtuous

[Anonymous No.20192598]

>>20189922
>it isn’t necessarily the opposite of religion
That would be anti-thiesm which, if we actually respected the English language and it’s conjugations, we would know they are two different things. Atheism still respects metaphysics but anti-theism is just another form of nihilism.

[Anonymous No.20192610]

>>20189957
If AI could control the economy we would be benefited by it so much. If each super power has their own and then governments could coordinate based on the AI’s decisions. That would free up our thinking into the humanities and create a more just and humane world but in an ideal situation.

[Anonymous No.20192616]

>>20189992
We already are dingus

[Anonymous No.20192640]

>>20190291
Spirituality is a control structure, dingus. You are tapping into the ideas of the human soul to keep you from doing a bad thing and do a good thing instead. That’s control, just on the individual level. So what happens when 2 people have different spiritual frameworks? Will everyone be so tolerant to each other? And what if someone has a spiritual framework that other people really like and want to posses themselves? Is it possible to dissolve every group that conceives to develop and curate their spirituality?? You’re a retard and unfamiliar with the human condition.

[Anonymous No.20192654]

>>20190446
NTA but, don't you see all the people on Reddit treating atheism as a holy doctrine? After all atheism is just believing in one less God.

[Anonymous No.20192656]

>>20189866
Feud, Jung,
>>20189870
hahahahaha the opposite of this, get into science and spirituality. genealogists of morals and etymology is enlightening and worth the read but limited since history goes much further than words and language existed

[Anonymous No.20192670]

>>20192656
Bro you're at best 110 IQ points. Chill out.

[Anonymous No.20192702]

>>20192670
i'm sorry i thought this was a nietzsche thread, who the fuck could read GoM, Ecce Homo, Dawn and TotI and be interested in history of language and its dialectical unfurling? it's simply pedantic. the only language analysis after nietzsche that I thought was not a complete waste of time reading was maybe Wittgenstein, JL Austin and Derrida

[Anonymous No.20192806]

>>20189866
There is a spirituality of exploration, creativity, and discovery that can be found among people whose curiosity has been successfully nourished by their experiences and cultivated by their own search. A sense of divinity is found in The Unknown, in what lies beyond one's immediate understanding and interpretation of the world, and finds communion in experiences of awe and wonder with the world. What is unknown to anyone is truly infinite, and can be grasped by contemplating the cosmos and the natural world. The will to explore is an evolutionary impulse, an extension of the grasping of life towards potentiality.
These two videos and comic describes this spirituality from the perspective of a scientist, musician, and an artist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxVVm75k_8Q
https://youtu.be/rWnA4XLrMWA
http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park

[Anonymous No.20192987]

>>20192656
Jung was religious

[Anonymous No.20192997]

>>20192987
And a heretic

[Anonymous No.20193002]

>>20192997
Who gives a fuck nerd