/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20134382]

How exactly does Heaven solve the existential problems with living? Hell is easy to conceptualize, lmao fires demons endless rape and gore. But Heaven seems like an impossible concept, or at least a very dumb one. Upon getting in, it seems you're still suffering from boredom, nihilism, futility etc? Christcucks usually deflect by babbling about becoming One with G-d or some other equally vague shit, but if I transcend myself this is effectively the same as oblivion. This makes Hell a better option - I will suffer, but at least I will remain myself.

[Anonymous No.20134402]

>>20134382
Maybe God just sucks the faggotry straight out of your skull

[Anonymous No.20134442]

>>20134382
>Hell is easy to conceptualize, lmao fires demons endless rape and gore.
no, hell has the same problem, after thousands of years of endless torture you will turn masochistic and derive enjoyment from it

[Anonymous No.20134469]

>>20134382
Heaven is dumbed down nirvana.

[Anonymous No.20134476]

>>20134469
pseud moment

[Anonymous No.20134485]

>>20134382
Christians describe Heaven as a specific wish fulfillment where you keep your body, there is a literal gold kingdom, though marriage is nullified you enter among the Angels and are no longer concerened with Earthly things. It is a transformation from within but not completely unrecognizable from Earthly living. It is forms. It is not formless. There is a literal kingdom for 1000 years in Revelation. These wishes are not necessarily your own but they are the Biblical God's wish for creation in perfection away from the fallen world in a perfect world.

[Anonymous No.20134658]

The absence of description for these things in the bible only makes sense if you understand that Jesus was generally not talking about the afterlife, he was talking about a literal Kingdom of God on earth within the same century. Jesus was a Jew and Judaism had some vague belief in an afterlife but it was even less fleshed-out than Christianity's view and it was certainly not seen as "the meaning" of their religion, there's little indication that they took it seriously.

The Christian ideas of the afterlife only became the focal point after Jesus was dead a while and the original idea had become obsolete.

[Anonymous No.20134666]

>>20134442
Christians really don't have a good response to this, it's usually just "umm no??"

[Anonymous No.20134676]

>>20134485
> There is a literal kingdom for 1000 years in Revelation
you mean the one part of the bible that even christians openly don't believe

[Anonymous No.20134701]

>>20134666
the most common answer is: god is all-powerful he can make it that way, even if we are unable to understand how

[Anonymous No.20134723]

>>20134701
Yeah sure he could, but why? He didn't tell us he would. Plus, the whole point seems to be differing to the devil (who serves as an obvious example of someone who got used to hell, by the way).

[Anonymous No.20134754]

>>20134723
>differing
I meant *deferring

[Anonymous No.20134786]

>>20134723
Again I agree with you but they have a few points that work somewhat: God is the supreme being and does not have to inform us about details of his plan (if we would even be able to comprehend it) and regarding the devil, it is an open theological question if he is even in hell. In the old testament he is free to wander the earth (book of job for example) and even in Revelation he was only put into a prison, which could or could not be hell.

[Anonymous No.20134805]

>>20134382
>Upon getting in, it seems you're still suffering from boredom, nihilism, futility etc?
based on what

[Anonymous No.20134886]

>>20134786
You're sort of making the point for me: it's just a random thought that individual Christians threw out, there is no inherent reason to think it's true more than any other. At that point you're just picking the afterlife model that you like the idea of most, so why not pick a happier and more interesting one like Swedenborg's? He at least claims to have *seen* the afterlife so there is actually something to take faith in, if you choose (you can't sensibly take faith in something the claimant is openly spitballing).

[Anonymous No.20134894]

>>20134805
Well, why not? If we're applying human ideas of "fire hurts, so hell is bad", then we're accepting the premise that you basically operate like a human being in the afterlife. At that point it's pretty reasonable to assume that things like boredom would come into play, as these are normal parts of the human condition.

[Anonymous No.20135808]

The essence of Heaven is the Beatific Vision, the vision of God. It is a 'light of the intellect', 'vision' is a metaphor, it's not about looking at a giant dude etc. The idea is that God is the fulfilment of what you have always been longing for, but been unable to satisfy, so you won't get bored etc

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.20136178]

>>20134382
>How exactly does Heaven solve the existential problems with living?

Syntheosis of polarities is immediate & constant in the Holy Spirit, therefore, everything in paradise/heaven/pleroma is perfect in its noble essentiality; all problems are resolved in the hot aether of divine flames.


>They ask, what burns in hell? Authorities [the Fathers] usually reply: “This is what happens to willfulness” [to individual will, self-interest]. But I say it is “Not” [it is the Nothing] that is burned out [that burns] in hell. For example: suppose a burning coal is placed in my hand. If I say the coal burns me I do it a great injustice. To say precisely what does the burning, it is the “Not”. The coal has something in it that my hand does not. Observe! It is just this “Not” that is burning me – for if my hand had in it what the coal has, and can do what the coal can do, it, too, would blaze with fire, in which case all the fire that ever burned might be spilled on this hand and I should not feel hurt.

— Meister Eckhart, Speech 5b, DW Ι

[Anonymous No.20136758]

>>20136178
>>20135808
>it just works okay???

[Anonymous No.20136785]

>>20136178
What is Eckhart saying here? That the true pain of hell is the absence of God?

[Anonymous No.20136909]

>>20134382
I think its hard for us to conceptualize because hell is the closest thing we know to a divine province. Its a shame that this place will be the closest thing to heaven many will experience.

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.20137128]

>>20136785


In a general, abstrect sense: yes, since mere absence of a thing does not necessarily preclude its potential for reception in an other thing; in a special, concrete sense, it is a problem of declension of beingness, which may vary between the macro, and the micro, ontological layers, as it does between nature – physis – matter, and mind – spirit – soul; hell constitutes even further declension, closer to the absolute darkness of the abyss.

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.20137131]

>>20136785


In a general, abstrect sense: yes, since mere absence of a thing does not necessarily preclude its potential for reception in an other thing; in a special, concrete sense, it is a problem of declension of beingness, which may vary between the macro, and the micro, ontological layers, as it does between nature – physis – matter, and mind – spirit – soul; hell constitutes even further declension, closer to the absolute darkness of the Abyss.

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.20137138]

>>20137131
>...[abstract]...

[Anonymous No.20137147]

You won't remain yourself anon, there won't be anything less except the screams of those around you, white noise and infinite pain
No thoughts

[Anonymous No.20137185]

>Why can't you describe the afterlife and the ineffable presence of the godhead to me in a one-paragraph 4chan post? Is it perhaps because I'm the only person in the millennia of monotheism's existence who thought about it at all?
The average quality of the posters in this place has gone down so drastically that I genuinely don't know what the proper response is without physically being there to beat you in the head with a blunt object.
You don't have to make threads like this. If every thought that whistles through your empty fucking skull is this retarded, you actually don't have to share any of them with anyone else. All you have to do is shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.20137189]

>>20137131
>absence of God
>use fancy words so they wont know im still at a logical contradiction with God being omnipresent

[Anonymous No.20137195]

>mfw fear mongering of hell is still the only reason why people follow the christian God

no matter how hard you deny it, it's an evolutionary response to fear of the unknown and the brain's poor escape and justification to the thought of death

>inb4 "yeah God designed us that way"

[Anonymous No.20137833]

>>20134382
There is no place of Heaven or Hell in the bible.

[Anonymous No.20137873]

>>20134382
It’s because these conceptions of hell and heaven were invented to respectively frighten and entice retards to join this growing religion, it’s very noticeable how Paradise and damnation are much more common in religions the more proselytising they are. Heaven is togetherness with God, perfectly rational virtuousness; hell is total separation from God, being ruled by passions and base desires contradicting one another, confusion.

[Anonymous No.20137891]

>I dont wanna go to paradise because I could be boooooored
Man imagine being this vain and privileged, I hope civilization falls and we all starve because then these concepts of "nihilism" "antinatalism" "egalitarianism" and whatever nonsense is floating around will fuck off and I can at least die without spoiled retards babbling about their imagined luxury problems.

[Anonymous No.20137897]

>>20137185
>I can't even, like seriously don't even @ me like hooooly how are you real like damn like kys
Thank you for your valuable contribution.

[Anonymous No.20137903]

>>20134382
Then live a good life... You really have to be a pretentious /lit/ veteran to unironically say Hell is better than Heaven. Fucking midwit, have you ever even applied for one job?

[Anonymous No.20137918]

>>20137903
>>20134382
Like dude if you're not a Reddit atheist then you should know that you're allowed to LEAVE Heaven.

[Anonymous No.20137938]

>>20134666

Let's see Paull Allen's satanic trips

[Anonymous No.20137994]

>>20134382
>Upon getting in, it seems you're still suffering from boredom, nihilism, futility etc
I don't see how you could be a nihilist in heaven, when you see that god is present, the meaning and end of everything. Same with futility, in heaven you realize your purpose is to serve god, which you do ceaselessly. Boredom is only plausible, you live forever and everything begins to become boring, although that would take long time because of things I mentioned formerly, everything has purpose and is full of meaning.

[Anonymous No.20138283]

>>20134382
Personally I find the entire concept horrifying. If life is nothing but a test to see if you’re enough of a good believer to join God, then it’s nothing more than sick sadism. God’s effectively making you come on Earth, develop relationships and create a self, only to tell you to drop all that as it’s all part of the material illusion. Your possessions are ultimately on the same level as your interpersonal relationships. God’s telling you that if you’re a good little believer, you’ll earn eternity, and fuck your wife/husband, children, parents and whoever else. The best case I can look forward to in this life, if I don’t anger God, is that I’ll forget about the most important people in my life and join the collective consciousness or some bullcrap.

This entire notion is deeply insulting to me. Christianity is a religion built on submission, apathy and disconnect from what is real, with its ultimate goal being a vague sense of “ascension”. If it’s true, I want no part of it and whoever designed reality as is is nothing more than a psychopath. It horrifies me to see people trying to be good little guys to win the Magic Kike’s approval. You have to realise the entire thing is mental and more akin to torture than it is to a reward. The Christian God should be combated based entirely in principle as he’s antithetical to the entire notion of humanity and reality as is.

[Anonymous No.20138418]

There are no clocks in heaven. You are conceptualizing heaven like this world, with time still an issue. Eternity is a single moment, outside of time and suffering. Read Eckhart, Kant, and even Schopenhauer. Even Plato discussing becoming vs being would help.

[Anonymous No.20138430]

>>20137147
How do you figure?

[Anonymous No.20138433]

>>20137185
You can't explain it because it legitimately is not in the Bible, you have nothing to base any of this on.

[Anonymous No.20138440]

>>20137195
The nasty flip side of this is that 'sincere' christians who didn't need this incentive have to wrestle with this ugly idea that many of their friends and family are going to be tortured forever.

[Anonymous No.20138460]

>>20137891
You really can't understand the idea of being scared of boredom when you live forever in one place? If you have some way to dispel the concern then fine but saying it just isn't worth bringing up is retarded. Boredom is a real thing and it can become quite painful with enough time.

[Anonymous No.20138462]

>>20137903
Your writing style makes clear that you are actually triggered by this

[Anonymous No.20138476]

>>20137891
>these concepts of "nihilism" and "egalitarianism"
Do you even know what those are? They are basically opposites

[Anonymous No.20138495]

>>20134666
A post itself marked by the beast, fitting for such a heretical scrap of satanic rubbish. HOLY WATER! HOLY WATER! BEGONE FOUL DEMON, VILE SPWAN FROM THE DEPTHS OF SICKNESS, BEGONE!

[Anonymous No.20138502]

>>20138495
At least that was more engaging than "umm, no??"

[Anonymous No.20138522]

>>20134723
>Yeah sure he could, but why? He didn't tell us he would.
Yes, because every time I have to do something I have to tell people I'm doing it. A requirement of activity, if you will. Sorta like that one movie where the guy can't lie, I can't move without telling other people about it. So I'm glad you agree that God must have the same affliction (known directly by pure inspiration, I can certainly tell), because it confirms the divinity of (what I now consider) my gift. Thank you, sir! I am being sincere.

[Anonymous No.20138534]

>>20136178
>Syntheosis of polarities
Dang, thats like buddhism and how opposites are really the same? Fucking deep bro... Do you do parties?

[Anonymous No.20138542]

>>20138502
>more engaging
Yes, a pinch of sardonic wit, with a tablespoon of pure analytical INTJ intensity.

[Anonymous No.20138548]

>>20138283
… you ever thought maybe you missed something? or that YOU are the right one and everyone else is diluded.

Also, I dont think it ever said to abandon the self. Just that earthly concerns will no longer ail you. you will exist in the purely conceptual and spiritual form. thus you live in ideals rather than passions. If your connections are not solely passion based, you wont loose those things at all. If you commit yourself to chasing after something respectful and fundementally rather than circumstantially beautiful, that is a boon in your corner. If you just say fuck off too your wife with no higher ideal behind it, that is wrong. if you believe that something is of higher fundemental import than your family, than thats that. why do you value your family if not because you see some sort of ideal in that relationship of love? So subsequently if you believe strongly enough that a certain act speaks to a higher love that might circumstantially butt-up against a family relationship, it only follows that a true spirit would break would do it anyways. otherwise that is not true love. And even then, its not against filial piety diametrically, most of the time, the two will be in exact or near exact alignment.

You know, because its not like highly christian communities have strong family bond or anything. Please just ignore latin America and Amish and so on.

Your whole comment speaks of someone who has no idea of religion and seeks to find problems rather than seek to understand.

[Anonymous No.20138558]

>>20138522
Obviously what I was saying is the idea that he does that is purely a human conception and no one even claims otherwise. If he does it, it's simply a coincidence that you think he does it, as it was a random idea that you got separate from God's word.

You guys make it so fucking clear that your "faith" is not in God or his word but in your own ability to be right all the time.

[Anonymous No.20138567]

>>20138542
>trying to mock wittiness and analytical thinking
Gives us a pretty good idea of your level of intelligence

[Anonymous No.20138575]

>>20138522
So you think God can lie?

[Anonymous No.20138578]

>>20138548
ESL

[Anonymous No.20138585]

>>20134382
you are making a lot of assumptions here. like boredom and stuff. Most denominations that I am aware of has heaven as a purely spiritual place. There is no passions of bodily sensations. only spirit and ideals.
>>20134894
yah, cause hell tends to be the place where people who where judged for some inordinate worldly act of non spirituality go, so they exist in a realm of sensation.

[Anonymous No.20138600]

>>20138585
>you are making a lot of assumptions here. like boredom and stuff
I know this board's average IQ has plummeted lately but holy shit

[Anonymous No.20138621]

>>20138600
…yah. How can you be bored if you are a purely spiritual entity? Boredom is a facet of either
A: bodily particulars
B: Aesthetic flight (see Kierkegaard)

Tell me, logically what is boredom? A SENSATION perhaps? a feeling? IF you are on adderal for example, you can be completely captivated by a lint role, implying it being a bodily aspect. and as aesthetic flight, if you have a perfect ideal, you wont really being flighty, would you?

[Anonymous No.20138640]

>>20138621
All I was saying is that you write like a retard. I have a response to what you said but I'm going to save my energy for talking with people who at least have the sense to try to hide their retardation.

[Anonymous No.20138688]

>>20138640
COPE

[Anonymous No.20138694]

>>20138688
If you want to have a discussion, it is simply a matter of pretending to be a new person and making a point of not acting like a retard. This is an anonymous forum without IDs, after all.

[Anonymous No.20138695]

>>20138567
Indeed, for i see you've inferred my abnormally high level of iq, from the isolation my gift from the one and only king of heaven has furnished me with, and the self-hatred it has brought with it because of these unfortunate defects. Laughter is the best medicine, said a wise man, and it is the cure i need to pump myself with to alleviate the symptoms of my sickness, which is the inacceptance of the glorious, glorious gift of the mr. G. O. D. himself with gratitude.

[Anonymous No.20138697]

>>20138640
A non comment. I am sorry if my writing habits offend you, but I hardly think that is reason enough not to respond if I made an actual point. Seems like a cop out to me. I think the topic of boredom itself is pretty interesting and its ramifications on altered states of being.

[Anonymous No.20138699]

>>20138695
If this was meant as an impression of the arrogant INTJ meme, it was pretty good.

[Anonymous No.20138708]

>>20138697
>I think the topic of boredom itself is pretty interesting and its ramifications on altered states of being.
I agree, but some people are not worthy of holding an interesting discussion with.

[Anonymous No.20138712]

>>20138640
>All I was saying is that you write like a retard
What a compliment! The retarded write with an innocence and simplicity unequalled by those creatures of dissimulation who can only scratch out lies and mere dead abstractions. If only we could all be retarded...