/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20122470]

Realistically what are the chances of me writing a successful novel? Should I turn my idea into a short film/cartoon first to gain a audience and then write a book based on the film/cartoon so I can be more likely to sell my book?

[Anonymous No.20122489]

Why do you assume making a successful movie is easier than making a successful novel?

[Anonymous No.20122491]

>>20122489
Well basically I planned on filming a short film for my college class and posting it online to gain a fan base before writing my novel. The film would take place in the same setting that I’m writing for my story. Or I was going to animate a short cartoon pilot and post it online, hopefully gain a following, and then either continue making the cartoon or continuing the cartoon in book form.

[Anonymous No.20122495]

>>20122470
>Get a day job
>Work on your passion projects on the side (for free)
>Get enough of an audience to start charging

[Anonymous No.20122501]

>>20122470
>>20122491
A successful movie is way tougher than a successful book. A successful book is just you, the words, an editor, and an audience. That's it. You can possibly, like I have, make a steady amount of money per month through libraries and universities copyright fees, which would make you successful. But a movie has so many factors. Writers, script-doctors, actors, producers, investors, editors, costume designers, casting directors, etc, etc. When I wrote film scripts, I felt so removed as a writer and creator with so many variables and collaborations happening in the film world.

[Anonymous No.20122505]

>>20122470
>>20122489
>>20122491
>>20122495
You're all retards not taking advantage of global capitalism
Work a real job, develop skill and proto project on the side
Save every single penny you have
Once you have enough, go to a country with cheap wages. Hire a small team, HIRE is the key word here, you are the boss. Make enough of a project that you can show to investors for further funding. Ask for less because wages and costs are less. Get investment, finish project
You are NOT some romantic individual genius creating his movie!
That doesn't exist anymore
You will NOT "start with a small audience and then scale up" The chances of this happening is miniscule to the point of absurdity. Majority of the planet will not waste time with subpar content when they have so many other options. You go all in first time or do nothing

[Anonymous No.20122512]

>>20122505
you are retarded

[Anonymous No.20122518]

>>20122512
No more need for copes, I already know boards like this are full of bitch faggot pussy pseuds trying to live out some fantasy, no actual grit or ambition, nor the mental fortitude needed to evaluate reality accurately. Go ahead, start off your novels on amazon or your movies on youtube, see where that gets you

[Anonymous No.20122526]

>>20122501
>>20122505
>>20122512
>>20122518
I legitimately think I have a good enough idea that has potential. Animation is a huge thing that people love on the internet, and I believe that if I make something really good, I could get a following and then continue my story through animation or novel form. What else am I supposed to do? Just write a book and hope it becomes popular? I really think slowly building up your audience is a much more efficient way to make something of yourself/your writing

[Anonymous No.20122532]

>>20122505
my uncle did something similar, had little amount of funds for a proposed business so he went to Chile and opened up the office there. 1/10th the salaries he would have to pay in the United States, and unless its using cutting edge and extremely complex skills, most of the world has the workforce needed to perform it

[Anonymous No.20122538]

>>20122518
Never said anything about doing novels or movies. I am not the OP. It's retarded to say that going to a third world shithole and "hiring a team" is the only realistic way to success.

>start off your novels on amazon

lol when do people need to hire a team of third worlders to write a novel?

I can't imagine how autistic you must be irl.

[Anonymous No.20122551]

>>20122538
>It's retarded to say that going to a third world shithole and "hiring a team" is the only realistic way to success
Yes its the only REALISTIC way to success when you have actual ambition without the financial backing needed to accomplish it. In this industry if you are looking to actually bring your ideas to life without grinding for 30+ years for somebody for the tiny chance of being in the position of being the head creator still bringing to light other people's ideas, you need to scrap about what you have and stay independent. No, that doesn't mean animating some shitty shorts and putting it on youtube hoping somebody notices.
And funny how you call it "third world shitholes"
Once again, dumbass pseud losers unable to comprehend global capitalism at the scale it is today and the workforce it contains. You are not hiring foreign workers to design a jet or build a bank.
>lol when do people need to hire a team of third worlders to write a novel?
Its the point of this "live and let live" small time "I'll be discovered!" nonsense you are peddling. And yeah, you can hire people working full time just to conjure up and market your nonsense persona until you are known enough to get some shitty book deal
>I can't imagine how autistic you must be irl.
You're a child

[Anonymous No.20122560]

>>20122551
autism

>>20122526
I believe in you, OP. It's worth a shot, and you won't lose anything by trying. Just keep working hard at your craft and you'll get there. Just don't make it your only source of income.

[Anonymous No.20122563]

Just want to reiterate
If you are living in a wealthy country and not taking advantage of your relative currency, the internet, value of visa, and access to the top markets: YOU ARE A SMUCK
You are not born into wealth and influence. Stop playing by the bullshit rules in the bullshit game they made up to justify their nepotism. You will NOT BE "DISCOVERED". Do it yourself

[Anonymous No.20122565]

>>20122560
>Just don't make it your only source of income.
Don’t worry I know. This is just a side gig for me. So far I have over 50k saved up. I’m going to continue working/going to school while writing on the side.

[Anonymous No.20122569]

>>20122565
>I have over 50k saved up
That's 3 animators for a year, your living costs, paperwork, and equipment in Mexico

[Anonymous No.20122573]

>>20122569
It would only cost about 5-7k to hire a animator to animate a short pilot episode

[Anonymous No.20122619]

Don't think about success. Think about completion. NanoWriMo.

[Anonymous No.20122641]

>>20122470
Probably zero since you failed to give us any of the information required to answer you question.

[Anonymous No.20122832]

>>20122470
>Realistically what are the chances of me writing a successful novel?
On your first try? Very low. It sounds like you are confused about what medium you should use to tell your story. The other posters in this thread are right that films are going to be a lot more complex. It would be easier to write short stories or novels, but to some extent it depends on the stories you want to tell, and what kind of audience would be interested in them. To reach normie men and boys, you might be better off making a video game or a film unless your novel is in an engaging genre like fantasy or science fiction.

>>20122505
>>20122518
>>20122551
No way. Moving to another country entails so much disruption and risk, and this entire plan relies on your ability to somehow manifest the skills to manage people, manage projects, and attract investment (in an unfamiliar cultural environment I might add) - which is a completely different mindset to being an artist. Depending on the nature of the project, I would instead just follow this approach >>20122495 but include a third step: "invest in a remote workforce using your savings". This would be much safer than uprooting your life and using all of your savings to go recruit a team in another country to build your first brainfart.

Choosing to go to a cheap wage country is a long term commitment way beyond a side project. If you fuck it all up, you have to come to terms with the losses and opportunity costs, and potentially you will need to completely rebuild your life because you bet everything on this one thing. The whole point of investing in artistic skills and coding skills is that what you produce can scale to a global level and pay off asymmetrically compared to the time and effort you put in. Most of the time you will fail. So realistically the best approach is to be in a stable enough position to make a lot of attempts at different ideas, learning and developing along the way. You take a large quantity of small risks and persist despite suffering failure and humiliation until you see success. Taking a large do-or-die all-or-nothing risk is foolish, and it is potentially life-ruining advice.

>>20122569
>t. mexican landlord

[Anonymous No.20122869]

>>20122832
>entails so much disruption and risk, and this entire plan relies on your ability to somehow manifest the skills to manage people, manage projects
Which you learn how to do by doing it
>attract investment (in an unfamiliar cultural environment I might add
No, you attract investment in the wealthy areas you come from once you are able to produce something of worth using the resources of the low wage area you are working in
>which is a completely different mindset to being an artist
You didn't get my posts. You don't have the privilege of being an "artist", in the sense of some wandering around flaneur contemplation blah blah blah
You use your artistry to make a master plan and oversea completetion. The director of a movie doesn't hold the cameras, he doesn't sow the costumes, or set up the lighting. He does as much as he can if he wants within his power, either writing, casting, storyboarding, and conveying the general vision in every process OTHERS carry out. Then he directs
There is your "artistry". Nobody is going to hand you a plate a cash for your deep thoughts to be created. You are not the son of a producer, you did not attend some feeder school, nobody will pass around your name. This trap has destroyed so many(many of which I know personally in many mediums).
YOU WILL NOT BE DISCOVERED
This is bullshit.
>remote workforce
This is a disaster waiting to happen. 99% of the stories people use to discourage dealing with foreigners for business is always about remote work
No you must be there every day and every hour, in person.
>Choosing to go to a cheap wage country is a long term commitment way beyond a side project. If you fuck it all up, you have......
The rest of this post is just bitching about not having the guts to take risks. Sorry to be blunt but its true. Like with being an artist, you don't have the privilege of "minimizing risk taking" or doing this half ass "slow build" for a billion reasons.
And "life ruining"? Really? Worse case scenario you lose money and gain experience, experience that will be 1000 times more valuable than this after work doodling risk aversion

[Anonymous No.20122872]

>>20122470
>Realistically what are the chances of me writing a successful novel?
are you at least two of these
>gay
>black
>a woman
if not then no

[Anonymous No.20122874]

>>20122872
What if I'm a straight man but I suck a lot of black dick?

[Anonymous No.20122882]

>>20122874
acceptable

[Anonymous No.20122890]

>>20122869
And I might add, what am I basing this on? People I have been surrounded with for the last 15 years. All "aspiring artists", none with connections. Many had some serious talent that would have paid off if they dedicated 100% and actually thought realistically about the world. Writers, painters, musicians, directors, ect.
Out of this horde you know the SINGLE one who managed to succeed?
The guy who worked a construction job 8 hours a day for 3 years while developing his 3d modeling skills. He lived with his mom and saved all of his money. Wrote up the entirety of a video game, went to an eastern European country, and hired 4 guys to help him bring it to life. They built something beyond some concept art sketches and delusional promises, an actual working and professional looking demo of the game.
This allowed to collect funding and eventually after release the game was a immediate success
Mind you, he knew zero of the local language, in fact, he never once stepped foot there before starting out.
And this experience is becoming more and more common with actual risk takers. This whole grind it out starving lone artist shit is just a cope for being a pussy. Skin in the game

[Anonymous No.20122894]

>>20122869
>And "life ruining"? Really? Worse case scenario you lose money and gain experience
I did not really follow the whole convo but committing to this stuff can definitely be life ruining.
I've done what many people in creative fields have done: had a close brush with death in my 20s and realized that I had to use the life I have left to do something I loved, and so I did. It's very easy to lose track of the years. One year goes down in failure, but you are an amateur, so you say 'one more year', then another year goes down in failure, but you still haven't matured, so you go 'one more year', and so on and so on, until you are finally 'competent' and you have something valid and you say 'one more year' and the 8th or 9th year goes in the trash and you realize that the world has changed too much and everything moved on, that you are old and out of touch, that perseverance doesn't really work as well as having connections and what is valid to you is not valid for the market. Now you have an 8, 9 year gap with occasional gigs in your resume that you cannot explain to an employer.

[Anonymous No.20122912]

>>20122890
what kind of videogame is it

[Anonymous No.20122982]

>>20122869
>>20122505
100% spot on, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. I think it stems from a "just world fallacy" or some kind of narcissism when people genuinely believe in this lofty 'artist mindset'
It's absolutely grueling, it's hard and ultimately never-ending. Not only are you responsible for your artistic creation being finished (whether that's your music, film, novel you wrote), you have to create a personal brand and advertise yourself to the entire world. That means a lot of planning in-advance; either learning many new skillsets shoddily, or getting help from a larger network of people. So not only are you trying to create the art, you are trying to advertise it, you are trying to sell it. You are trying to schedule around selling, planning events, working out the logistics of how the fuck you ever plan to launch it into the real world.

I'm not exaggerating either. If you have big goals, it's probably comparable to working two full-time jobs. There is no relaxation during that kind of process unless you are already at the top, and fully accomplished. Nobody is going to recognize your art - if you fail, that's also a rationalization on your part. It's very difficult to make a living off of your artwork, but there's no excuses around the hard work. There's no enjoyment now, you either do all the work and finish it or you don't. Whatever field you're in, none of this is easy or enjoyable in the jovial carefree sense

[Anonymous No.20123008]

>>20122982
>So not only are you trying to create the art, you are trying to advertise it, you are trying to sell it.
These activities are no longer separate. You do not make a thing and then find a way to market it: you start with the marketing. You have to make products that are already in demand, there is no such thing in 2022 as doing something you personally want to make.

[Anonymous No.20123026]

>>20122982
Anyway, adopting this sort of mindset might make it easier to anyone doubting themselves. It's reassuring because there are great writers, directors, musicians, visual artists who admit the same thing or allude to this more or less. (arguably it happens in every artist's creative process when they've distinguished their character/persona)

I've given up my social life mostly, since it's so difficult to juggle multiple plans and tasks at a time. Still though, I would rather see it thru to the end. I would be too disappointed, I would probably also kill myself if I gave up and decided my creative pursuits were meaningless

[Anonymous No.20123035]

>>20123026
you should not trust what famous people say, especially if the people you think are "great" are pop culture authors. they always say the same shit, "my literature professor told me I had no talent, but I KEPT GOING and I got my first book published in 1962", congrats, this won't get you anywhere in 2022.

[Anonymous No.20123089]

>>20122869
>Which you learn how to do by doing it
Not only are you suggesting that people with artistic ambitions take a massive risk by transplanting themselves to another country and essentially starting up an enterprise on their own dime, you are telling them not to bother with the type of work they actually enjoy (creative pursuits) because you think it will lead nowhere. Instead you recommend that they choose a different type of work (leadership, management, running a business or project) in which they may hold no interest, experience, or aptitude. Yes, you can learn to do it by doing it. But you can do that just as easily in a much lower stakes setting before you find yourself spending your life savings in exchange for a crash course in getting Paco to stop taking extra long coffee breaks or he's fired... trying to develop a viable product or business model out of your untested unproven idea with no plan B... and lets not forget such riveting topics as Mexican business, tax and labor laws.

>No, you attract investment in the wealthy areas you come from once you are able to produce something of worth using the resources of the low wage area you are working in
Sure, this is plausible. But again, this assumes that you can people manage and project manage in an unfamiliar cultural environment, that doing so ultimately produces something of worth, and that this ultimately attracts investment. That's not an impossible thing to do, but I reiterate- it is a completely different mindset to being an artist.

(1/3)

[Anonymous No.20123096]

>>20122869
>>20123089
>You didn't get my posts. You don't have the privilege of being an "artist", in the sense of some wandering around flaneur contemplation blah blah blah
No, you clearly did not get my post, because it didn't promote mindlessly embracing the Romantic era conception of artists as sensitive individual geniuses. It didn't suggest wandering around, or flaneur contemplation, or believing that you will be inevitably discovered and elevated to success for nebulous reasons.
>You use your artistry to make a master plan and oversea completetion. The director of a movie doesn't hold the cameras, he doesn't sow the costumes, or set up the lighting. He does as much as he can if he wants within his power, either writing, casting, storyboarding, and conveying the general vision in every process OTHERS carry out. Then he directs
>There is your "artistry". Nobody is going to hand you a plate a cash for your deep thoughts to be created. You are not the son of a producer, you did not attend some feeder school, nobody will pass around your name. This trap has destroyed so many(many of which I know personally in many mediums).
There is no doubt that creativity is important for film directors, but you seem to be aggressively promoting the idea that succeeding as an artist now requires reinterpreting artistry as entrepreneurship, learning leadership and management skills, and instead of doing the work yourself- you hire cheap labor to do it for you. You somehow have the gall to claim that remote work (a form of outsourcing) is notoriously bad and a disaster waiting to happen… when your entire idea is just a different form of outsourcing. The fact is, outsourcing in general is full of discouraging stories.

(2/3)

[Anonymous No.20123103]

>>20122869
>>20123089
>>20123096
>The rest of this post is just bitching about not having the guts to take risks. Sorry to be blunt but its true. Like with being an artist, you don't have the privilege of "minimizing risk taking" or doing this half ass "slow build" for a billion reasons.
You clearly don't understand risk as much as you claim to... because you don't show any appreciation of the fact that most businesses and creative projects fail. The whole point of my post isn't that you should minimize risk taking, it is actually that you should maximize risk taking by minimizing the cost of failure. This allows you to try many ideas without spending months or years recovering from a failed one. It’s why you should absolutely choose the boring day job and spend most of the rest of your time on the side projects - testing the viability of ideas, projects, or businesses in the shortest possible timeframe and moving on to the next one.

You are actually the one advocating minimizing risk taking, because you want people to take 1 big risk, using their life savings on an unproven, untested idea in a foreign country where they have no network, no understanding of culture or law or business practices, and no backup plan if that idea fails.

(3/3)

[Anonymous No.20123121]

>>20123008
No, you are speaking in a technological, consumer-driven product sense. Yes, I would agree with that. If you are creating a soulless consumer product, for people to consume and then discard, yes absolutely correct.

In terms of creating art - a novel, a movie, a painting, musical arrangement - no. You don't necessarily need to start looking for 'in-demand' ideas.

Weren't we discussing personal creative endeavors? If you're writing a novel, or forming a band, directing a film, no. There is no 'starting with the demand' in a concrete sense.
One does not look at a market - has anyone created great art based on pop-culture's demand? Not really.
I mean, maybe in a slightly intellectual abstracted way. It's more intuition based and reflective though. If you think you have a good creative idea (artistically speaking), it's probably somewhat compatible with the current popular culture (hence why it's a good idea in your mind)
In fact, you'll probably create something soulless, devoid of any inspiration or authentic artistic expression. Nobody will ever follow thru with those half-baked ideas. At most they ask the other clueless retards around them 'hey is this a good idea' because they made the mistake of viewing their artform in the traditional capitalistic sense.
I'm not a postmodernist either by the way. I value the execution of the art and the intention to create something high quality. There is no market for most postmodern artworks. Or rather, the shitty low-quality 'abstract' postmodern art (where the artist usually puts no effort in whatsoever and has no idea of the traditions behind his field)
Those retards usually just fall back since they're completely inauthentic or stupid though

[Anonymous No.20123129]

>Realistically what are the chances of me writing a successful novel? Should I turn my idea into a short film/cartoon first to gain a audience and then write a book based on the film/cartoon so I can be more likely to sell my book?
Mate, you're a frogposter on 4chan. The chances of you ever writing a 'succesful' (in the aesthetic sense, I hope) are between zero and zero.

[Anonymous No.20123134]

>>20122505
>be a slave to the system and then leave your roots to slave away even more
And he's proud of it.

[Anonymous No.20123157]

>>20123121
>nooo I am talking about creating le art that you create for le yourself
you may as well not create anything since it won't reach anyone. If you are able to put the kind of obsessive effort of something who wants to impact the world into something that you create "for yourself" AKA A FUCKING HOBBY you get all my compliments
please tell me what it is that you are writing, if you are writing nothing then please shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.20123166]

>>20123103
Dude, are you fucking stupid or what? This isn't exactly rocket science we're talking about here. I'm sure that guy meant it as a general example.
i.e. It's easier to hire someone else than to learn it yourself, etc. Same goes for general management of project tasks

However you want to conceptualize it. There is no need to get caught up here on concepts like risk-taking and infrastructure. What needs to be considered is the work-oriented approach to artistry. There's too little time to waste, waiting around for people to 'recognize' or 'discover' your artistry. No, there are too many tasks and details which need to be completed. The artist does not live stress-free, floaty with all of his goals and ambitions, enjoying his youth. He is slaving away most of the time, either at his dead-end corporate job or at a desperate hope to get his artistic career off the ground. (or more tragically, no hope at all, when artists don't fully commit or see the end goal, the art becomes a hobby they ditch after awhile)

[Anonymous No.20123171]

>>20122505
>Majority of the planet will not waste time with subpar content when they have so many other options

And your solution to this is to hire a team of pajeets to make content for you. Good thinking. I am sure A Game of Poos and Harry Plopper will be very successful.

[Anonymous No.20123209]

>>20123157
Are you fucking stupid? I never said 'creating for yourself', I meant literally 'follow the original intuition and inspiration'. Is that so hard for you to understand? A composer gets his inspiration from other composers, or off-the-cuff randomly, from wherever - then he decides to create the arrangement based on what his fellow composers play.
I mean generally, a skilled artist works in a structuralist sense. A good artist will usually have the foresight to understand whether their idea works within the context of their society and social position. They will also understand the techniques of the artists before them, hopefully thru their own study and practice.

Anyway, at that level, an artist will usually know if it's a good idea. If he has the idea for an archetypal theme, he could deduce the cliches of that particular theme, or avoid the common pitfalls of an unskilled writer.

Let me put it this way, if you still have the reading comprehension to make it this far, here's my example. Take a fiction novel for instance. You have a favorite author. While considering one of their books, you have a new inspiration to create your own book. You then imagine the plot from thin-air (after the inspiration, whatever the fuck gives you an idea), then logically the characters follow, etc.
This is assuming you already know how to write a novel, with the basic literary techniques and tools you've chosen, and the regular story arc structuring.

Generally, in this example, it would be taken from there.
There is no need for a writer to look at the popular genres in our culture today. What benefit would the artist get, from comparing his original idea, to the modern market of fiction books in whatever genre? The writer generally would not consider doing that. He might do that when he gets a very odd idea, and conclude "well no on else has done it" - that doesn't make an idea good necessarily

And no, please try to read what I say, my posts are assuming you already know the basics of whatever art field you're entering. This isn't addressed to some pedestrian mouth breathing retard with no prior knowledge of his field of art. (I would not draw comparisons of a writer brainstorming ideas based off his favorite author if I were explaining this to some illiterate moron, etc)

[Anonymous No.20123220]

>>20123209
One more note, my point is that certain ideas can become timeless, or transcend the contextual boundaries of the culture surrounding it. It is a frivolous useless fucking task to look towards pop-culture to calculate whether your personal artwork will sell. There's no reason to demote yourself past that level and derive insincere inspiration & fake artistic intention that way
Yes, your idea should sell within the current market of ideas. Your idea will be dogshit if it has no effort behind it though. Your ideas will crumble to dogshit if you flake on cultivating the hard work and technical skill to execute them, similarly with how your eventual final artistic product will be marketed to society at large

[Anonymous No.20123271]

>>20123166
>UR DUMB
>I'm sure th-that guy meant it this way, he's totally not me btw
You are taking exactly the same retarded stance that people should not strive to be artists at all... but just embrace a completely different role as a manager of other people. There isn't even anything wrong with hiring professionals to do specialised work, but you are making strong claims that learning artistic skills and doing the actual task-based work (the work-oriented approach to artistry, you say) is somehow a losing strategy, whereas you seem to believe that hiring people from a poor country to fulfill your artistic ambitions is a better strategy. Which approach is better is really an empirical question, and it's not at all clear that the outsourcing approach is better. Outsourcing is actually just choosing to do a different job that involves less task-based work, and more people-based work and strategy-based work (that is, management and leadership). You should really look at the "best of the best" in the medium to see what works. For writing, I don't see them outsourcing the most commercially successful fiction writing to the third world. For film, sure, they might use cheap labor for certain things during production... but the real creative jobs won't be treated like this because they are prestigious and desirable jobs that a lot of people want to do for a living.

>What needs to be considered is the work-oriented approach to artistry. There's too little time to waste, waiting around for people to 'recognize' or 'discover' your artistry. No, there are too many tasks and details which need to be completed.
You legitimately sound weird and autistic dude. No idea where this "waiting for recognition or discovery" meme is coming from because no one is recommending it.

While some mediums are easier to produce with a team, it is completely possible for one person to write a novel. Maybe you could hire a ghostwriter. But it's just not the case that hiring a team of poor ghostwriters will make you a better artist than developing and applying the skill yourself. You could hire professionals to help edit a text in various ways, beta-read it, illustrate cover art, review it, advertise it, and probably other things. But you would want someone with fluid native english for most of this work.

>The artist does not live stress-free, floaty with all of his goals and ambitions, enjoying his youth. He is slaving away most of the time, either at his dead-end corporate job or at a desperate hope to get his artistic career off the ground. (or more tragically, no hope at all, when artists don't fully commit or see the end goal, the art becomes a hobby they ditch after awhile)
Yes.

Being a professional creative is not a viable career choice for the vast majority of people, no matter how much they try or want it. Lifetimes have been spent in the attempt. That doesn't automatically mean outsourcing the work is more viable.

[Anonymous No.20123382]

>>20123271
>people should not strive to be artists at all
No? I disagree. We are both artists here, correct?
>but just embrace a completely different role as a manager
No, you've misunderstood. The "hiring other people" portion regards advertising your art in the real world. Selling your artistic creation, so on and so forth. To do that, you may need to hire other people to complete arbitrary tasks, like say a musician can pay someone to handle event/concert planning, an actor has their agent, etc.

>you seem to believe that hiring people from a poor country to fulfill your artistic ambitions is a better strategy
I am not the original poster who made the posts earlier up in the thread. And I would also disagree with this.
View it from a practical perspective, your own perspective. If you're an artist, probably working a full time job, you'd also have limited free-time, thus extremely limiting timeframes around your personal artistic projects - considering the study of techniques, workload, practice, so on.
From this perspective, what are you going to do? Sometimes, it is absolutely not possible to accomplish all of this yourself.
Imagine yourself as a solo writer without publishing, or a solo-musician without a band, or some random theater hobbyist who aspires to act. That's a tremendously huge workload to carry, especially if it's going to be successful. Imagine these characters trying to succeed alone by themselves without hiring anyone, or having any sort of support backing them to begin with
>No idea where this "waiting for recognition"
The original poster previously in the thread said this, thus I agreed with him. It's directed towards artists who lack the work-ethic or quality output toward their own work. It wasn't aimed towards anyone specifically, I don't think. I've just heard some awfully lazy excuses and rationalizations from aspiring artists IRL.
Certain people I've known introduced themselves as a creative-type, yet they avoid putting in effortful practice & study into their craft - making excuses, referencing the traditional cultural label of "artist", literally claiming it's not their job to market themselves and anyone who succeeds is just 'lucky'. I hate hearing this shit. Luck is hardly involved when you work hard enough. Talent is rarely involved either, you can literally force your will into learning anything new and perform it correctly.
>it's just not the case that hiring a team of poor ghostwriters will make you a better artist
I would agree, yeah. But if you were struggling on your own as a solo artist under time-constraints, in a shitty dead-end job and struggling to produce satisfactory artwork then you can see how perspectives might shift
>That doesn't automatically mean outsourcing the work is more viable.
Neither is learning everything by yourself
If you haven't noticed the pattern yet, this is what I do and it fucking sucks, because other artists are lazy