/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20119852]

I'm 3/4 through the first book and my God, this guy is a moron.
>muh honor
You can be honorable without being stupid. He had so many chances to strike first or just escape but noo, that wouldn't be honorable...

Also Sansa is very rapeable, although not as much as Arya or Myrcella.

[Anonymous No.20119881]

>>20119852
sansa is like 11 and arya is 8
OP i'm not sure i can pit much weight on your idea of what's "honorable" here

[Anonymous No.20119903]

>>20119881
>sansa is like 11 and arya is 8
And your point is?

[Anonymous No.20119960]

A Song of Ice and Fire is actually a polemic on how the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and especially the north of England are retards who deserve to have their interests be made subservient to those of the southern english who are themselves ruled by the norman conquerors

[Anonymous No.20120109]

>>20119960
Odd, usually the South is the worthless subhuman land dominated by the North. Italy for instance is like 2 different countries.

[Anonymous No.20120708]

>>20119852
asoiaf is just war of the roses in a fantasy setting

[Anonymous No.20121451]

>>20120708
I too remember an undead Scottish God arriving to fuck shit up

[Anonymous No.20121486]

>>20120109
Perhaps it's whichever region is more temperate. The South of england is neither that warm nor cold, the same can be said for the north of italy, however the north of england is colder than optimal and the south of italy is warmer than optimal.

[Anonymous No.20121512]

>>20119852
Isn't that the point? Eddard was an honorable, just ruler but ruling is all about power dynamics and playing politics well.

[Anonymous No.20121522]

>>20120708
>just war of the roses in a fantasy setting
And it somehow managed to be less interesting than the actual story.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Wars_of_the_Roses

[Anonymous No.20121524]

>>20119852
I think that’s the point. He never had any idea how to rule or play the politics game since he was pushed into power by the death of his older brother who had received training and conditioning to become a good ruler.

[Anonymous No.20122105]

>>20121522
Bros, what happened to hat culture? I mean, sure, we still have hats, but we rarely wear them and they're NOTHING compared to those glorious head ornaments in your pic. What the hell happened?

[Anonymous No.20122196]

>>20122105
We're living in an age of postmodern minimalism. Have you ever been in a Cotton On? Nightmare.

[Anonymous No.20122212]

>>20122105
>he doesn't wear hats

Be the change you want to see, friend.

[Anonymous No.20122219]

>>20119852
>You can be honorable without being stupid.
Correct. But sometimes it is impossible to remain honorable without taking risks or even outright sacrificing yourself.

[Anonymous No.20122244]

>>20119852
>A Song of Ice and Fire
Overrated series that will never be finished

[Anonymous No.20122499]

>>20122244
You need an abbriviation
>ywnbf

[Anonymous No.20122534]

>>20122105
Anti-Ottoman sentiment expelled the chaperon forever from european fashion

[Anonymous No.20122541]

>>20122499
Does this comment upset your wiener? Face it, asoiaf will not be finished.

[Anonymous No.20122548]

>>20122541
No doesn't bother me, although personally I'm holding out that fat fuck will eventually get em out. I was just saying your comment gets posted so much it needs its own acronym, like ywnbaw except 'you will never be finished' or something

[Anonymous No.20122574]

>>20122548
>GRRM is 73 years old
At this rate he'd rather retire and die. Besides, David Benioff and D.B. Weiss completely destroyed the series, so there's nothing to continue.

[Anonymous No.20122595]

>>20122574
Tell that to the millions of sweaty faggots like me who love the series and want a resolution

[Anonymous No.20123412]

>>20122574
What pisses me off is that fat fuck was saying he already had over 400 pages of the next book written ELEVEN YEAR AGO.

What the fuck did he do for the last 11 fucking years?? Even if you're writing an epic poem in rhyme, 11 years are too fucking long.

[Anonymous No.20123450]

>>20119852
Boromir was too proud not to be stupid though.

[Anonymous No.20123519]

>>20119852
i dunno why everyone always blames ned when catelyn is the one that prods him along to nearly every stupid decision he makes.
>tells him to go to king's landing even though he doesn't want to and he knows it's a hive of scum and villainy
>tells him to trust littlefinger, a guy who plainly has the hots for her, even though ned is clearly uncomfortable with this and doesn't trust him
>captures tyrion so ned has to save face by saying he commanded it to try and keep his family safe

the only stupid thing he did on his own was warn cersei, which was more him being consumed over his guilt about rhaegar's kids' deaths than actual political sense, which is admittedly stupid but understandable for his character.

[Anonymous No.20123766]

>>20123412
You are slow on the uptake. The saga will never be finished. Fat fuck doesn't have it in him. He is too tired, to old, and most importantly, too fat. Too lazy. It's over.
His universe expanded, and he is tiring each year. He is lost in the vastness of his own universe.
Maybe if he was 20 years younger, and had 50 years left, we would see the end.
It's over.

[Anonymous No.20124056]

>>20123766
Shut up Bobo. The books will come.

[Anonymous No.20124215]

>>20124056
When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then the books will come, and not before.

[Anonymous No.20125348]

>>20119852
Ned is pretty dumb, part of what makes him so endearing and sympathetic. On the second reading its kind of funny how oblivious he is but I still like him. The great thing about Martins writing is that Ned being a bit of a dumb dumb has profound consequences for the realm

[Anonymous No.20125437]

>>20121451
What part of fantasy setting don't you understand?

[Anonymous No.20125458]

>dude, were just a bunch of beetles being squished by a retard maaaaaaan
what a fucking hack writer

[Anonymous No.20125476]

>>20122541
why be deliberately antagonistic about it? kind of a dick move

[Anonymous No.20125490]

A Song of Ice and Fire is a pretty good example of how the most important parts of politics lies in the exception and not the rule. It really shows how ruling well or staying alive means you can't follow the rules.

[Anonymous No.20125812]

>>20122574
>, David Benioff and D.B. Weiss completely destroyed the series,
Maybe to you causal fans.

[Anonymous No.20125905]

>>20120109
….how is that true enough to be a trend in your mind? Rome is north of like half of italy and a good half of its empire. The center of china extended both north and south (Thou admittedly more south). Japans powerbase is mostly in the south. For most of its history, the HRE was dominated by the south in austria. Not saying there isnt ever northern domination like Prussia or post roman italy, but such localized north/south divide is hardly writen in stone.

Its completely relitive to the situation, I dont see how you mentally formed this retarded truism. Unless you are talking in the macro scale south of the equator/north of the equater type stuff, but at that point it doesnt really apply localy.

[Anonymous No.20125919]

>>20121524
This. Ned isn't smart either, he's a big dumb oaf who's always a good guy, always just did whatever his family said. He's a good soldier but not necessarily the right guy to make political decisions.

[Anonymous No.20125940]

>>20120109
>>20125905
Places where south>north:
Sweden, Norway, India, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Korea

[Anonymous No.20125943]

>>20125905
Northern Italy, like Padua, Milan, Venice, Verona, Florence, etc. was always the wealthier side of Italy. Rome was held by the Papal States. But southern Italy has largely (and still is) considered a shithole. There's actually a political movement in Italy to separate north and south again.

[Anonymous No.20125967]

>>20125940
North doesn't automatically mean good, you want to be in an ideal temperature, one that's difficult (cold) enough to force your people to overcome it, but not the point that it's a great expanse of nothingness and frozen land. There's a theory that that's why sub-Saharan Africa is under developed, and why dark, tall, thin, string bean bodies are well suited for the environment. With a hot tropical climate, where fruits are naturally growing, things like shelter and scalable agriculture aren't really a problem. And land is large and empty enough that managing people doesn't become nearly as much of an issue. My question for that is about the old civilizations of Latin America.

[Anonymous No.20125969]

>>20122105
Zoomers always wear Toques and beanies. Midwesterners always wear baseball caps

[Anonymous No.20125973]

>>20125943
…I didnt disagree about that. It dosnt effect the fact that its completely relitive. Rome is still south of gaul for example. Or that tokyo is south of Hokkaido.

If anything, id say temperate dominance is a thing rather than a strict north/south one. And even thats not absolute.

[Anonymous No.20125977]

>>20119852
That's the point. People going into A Song of Ice and Fire think it's stereotypical Fantasy, and Ned is a stereotypical fantasy hero. He's honorable, he's stoic, he cares about his family, his people, his friends, and he cares more about the truth than anything else. Hell he's even nice and respectful to the common folk.

We're supposed to think he's the protagonist and most people going in thinks he is. They root for him and everything and then he gets killed for being what the audience expects him to be. He sets the stage for how the book will play out and how no character - even the one you love - is safe from being killed.

[Anonymous No.20125989]

>>20125969
everyone wears baseball caps.
>>20125967
The tropics also have shitty disease and a lot of things that inhibit agriculture and livestock like bugs and shit. temperate areas kill off a lot of the competing biosphere while still being bountiful enough to develop.

[Anonymous No.20126099]

>>20125458
Based lackwit showfag

[Anonymous No.20126215]

>>20123519
But Catelyn's follies were all minor, justified by the situation. She had no way to predict that the situation would degenerate so catastrophically. I'd give her a 3/10 grade in stupidity.

Meanwhile, Ned's decision to tell Cersei he knew Joff was an incest baby was PANTS ON HEAD RETARDED, honor or not. He knew that the bitch was willing to murder to protect that secret, he KNEW it because she had already murdered Arryn, and he still expected her to just meekly give up and run away, and chased by a furious Robert to boot. That stupidity deserves a 10/10.

[Anonymous No.20126216]

>>20124215
>When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child
But I will never be a woman!

[Anonymous No.20126220]

>>20125812
The last 2 seasons and a half were utter shit. Shit dialogue, shit plot, shit everything.
The show died when Arya was stabbed in the gut, thrown in a sewer, and an episode later was fine and dandy.

[Anonymous No.20127451]

>>20122534
This guy slaps your bitch in the ass. What do?

[Anonymous No.20127483]

Several characters have traveled down to Asshai to learn dark magic or whatever it's also mentioned that there are regular trade ship going to there. If westeros was contact with fake mordor how come fake china which is a massive kingdom sitting right above has zero connections with westeros?

[Anonymous No.20127535]

>>20125458
You never read the books

[Anonymous No.20127539]

>>20125940
>Places where south>north:
>Sweden
It's just danish people.
>>20125943
Northern Italy isn't only a powerful industrial territory, up in the mountains there are tons of old pastoral villages with traditions and languages

[Anonymous No.20127572]

>>20127535
most people who shit on it haven't read it, I wish I could have a decent conversation about it here without having to go to reddit.

[Anonymous No.20128152]

>>20124215
Yes this also made me think about GRRM not finishing his books. That's the real prophecy that was given to Daenerys.

[Anonymous No.20128340]

>>20119852
The chapter when Drago mounts Dany the first time had me hard as a rock.

[Anonymous No.20128526]

>>20127483
maybe people avoid it for whatever reason. skagos is right by eastwatch and karhold and people avoid it like the plague because of the stories about it.

[Anonymous No.20128884]

>>20119960
I hate having a northern accent. Everyone immediately assumes I'm a pleb. British society is extremely prejudiced about accents, even more so than race in many cases.

[Anonymous No.20129207]

>>20121486
Honesty it’s just germanic blood quit pretending it’s not

[Anonymous No.20129216]

>>20129207
Not everything is about race schizo.

[Anonymous No.20129223]

>>20129207
It couldn't be more obvious. Amazing the copes people come up with. France has the same thing.

[Anonymous No.20129269]

What horrible fate does GRRM have planned for these guys?
I'm thinking JonCon is gonna wind up infecting the kid with greyscale.

[Anonymous No.20129294]

>>20125977
Except Jon Snow, Daenarys and Tyrion. The real main characters of the story.

[Anonymous No.20129299]

>>20129207
>>20129223
Do you have any evidence that Germanic blood is more prevalent in the South?
The most likely explanation is that the first Celtic Britons emigrated from modern France and naturally settled in the Southern parts of England. These became the wealthiest and most developed regions, so the Romans put the most effort into developing them further. Then, the Normans likewise settled in the South.
It doesn't have to be about " Germanic blood" or any Nazi garbage like that.

[Anonymous No.20129324]

>>20129207
Except North England is where all the real Anglo Saxons live and it's the poor half.

[Anonymous No.20129337]

>>20119852
Arya gets less pretty the older she gets in the series.

[Anonymous No.20129343]

>>20129337
This is /lit/, not /tv/. In the books she's a loli semen demon.

[Anonymous No.20129350]

>>20129343
Oh... reallly, who's semen does she demon?

[Anonymous No.20129354]

>>20129350
Mine all over every page

[Anonymous No.20129367]

>I won’t, Arya thought stubbornly, but when Yoren laid the wood against the back of her bare thighs, the shriek burst out of her anyway. “Think that hurt?” he said. “Try this one.” The stick came whistling. Arya shrieked again, clutching the tree to keep from falling. “One more.” She held on tight, chewing her lip, flinching when she heard it coming. The stroke made her jump and howl. I won’t cry, she thought, I won’t do that. I’m a Stark of Winterfell, our sigil is the direwolf, direwolves don’t cry. She could feel a thin trickle of blood running down her left leg. Her thighs and cheeks were ablaze with pain.

[Anonymous No.20129844]

>>20129269
joncon is 100% gonna die. i dunno if he'll infect the kid, but he'll definitely infect somebody. maybe some of the golden company, maybe jorah like in the show.

personally i think he'll find out young griff is actually a blackfyre, realize he's been helping rhaegar's family's enemy instead of rhaegar's true son, and then die trying to kill faegon.

[Anonymous No.20129875]

>>20129367
GRRM is so based. He snuck in so much coom fetish stuff, but got away with it because he can just say
>it was medieval times bro

[Anonymous No.20129994]

>>20122105
And robes for that matter, look at that shit it'd be so comfy and looks way better than a suit and tie.

[Anonymous No.20130115]

>>20129844
But he's almost literally raised fAegon his whole life, he's probably known him for longer than he knew Rhaegar. He certainly wouldn't like the truth and it would completely sour him on the whole Varys/Illyrio/GC gang but I don't think he'd turn against Young Griff, especially when they've also been brainwashing him from birth to think Rhaegar is legitimately his dad.

[Anonymous No.20130620]

>>20129269
>What horrible fate does GRRM have planned for these guys?
He said there's going to be a second dance with dragons.

[Anonymous No.20130629]

>>20120109
??? Rome is just south of dead center of Italy.

[Anonymous No.20130634]

>>20130620
A square dance.
A real hoedown with dragons.

[Anonymous No.20130639]

>>20122105
This, hats are fucking dope

[Anonymous No.20130657]

>>20126215
She had no way of predicting taking the Queen's brother prisoner would be interpreted as an act of war? And stir up her other brother, the notorious hothead? Taking Tyrion on nothing but Littlefinger's word was dumber than anything Ned did because it was so brazen. Plus, as a woman she had not place to make those decisions on behalf of Ned. Got him crippled.

[Anonymous No.20130675]

>>20129367
Yoren was bro

[Anonymous No.20131026]

>>20130657
>Taking Tyrion on nothing but Littlefinger's word
Well, there was also the fact that the Lannisters had just visited Winterfell and they were the only possible suspects.

>as a woman she had not place to make those decisions
Fully agree here. Femo*ds should never have any power or rights.

[Anonymous No.20131047]

>>20127572
>without having to go to reddit.

[Anonymous No.20131050]

>>20129207
It's the climate. Scientists have found a statistically significant correlation between warm climate and low intelligence/productivity.

[Anonymous No.20131057]

>>20129350
>who's semen
>who's
This is a literature board, for fuck's sake. It's "whomst'se".

[Anonymous No.20131066]

>>20129994
God, my balls would be SO breezy in a robe. But nooo, can't do that, the actual faggots in charge of fashion have decided that robes are gay.

Fuck this society, bros.

[Anonymous No.20131071]

>>20130629
Rome is considered middle Italy. The South starts with Campania. (Napolitans, calabrians and sicilians are what foreigners generally think of when they say "italians", which would be like judging all americans by Detroit's niggers.)

[Anonymous No.20131076]

I like how Arya thinks a brothel is just a tavern with women
I like how she always thinks about Syrio and how his words give her strength

[Anonymous No.20131077]

>>20130657
>dumber than anything Ned did
No. Very sorry, but going to the CONFIRMED MURDERER Cersei and telling her "I know that you cucked your king and that your kids are incest babies with no claim to the throne, which is something that will almost certainly get your entire family exterminated lol confess or I'll rat you out", and then expecting Cersei to NOT murder him to protect herself and her children, was probably the most retarded shit I've ever read in any series ever.

I mean, I get that GRRM needed the plot to move forward but this just destroys my suspension of disbelief.

[Anonymous No.20131081]

>>20131077
Which murder was confirmed as hers?

[Anonymous No.20131091]

>>20131076
>Syrio
He was really done dirty in the show. In the book when MERYN FUCKING TRANT goes to take Arya, Syrio murders 5 opponents armed with real swords in a few seconds with a wooden sword, and it's made clear that if Trant hadn't been in a full suit of armor he'd be dead too. It's cool af.

>>20131081
Jon Arryn. In the chat with Ned, she openly admits to fucking Jaime, brags about having had only his children and not Robert's, admits to pushing Bran down the tower and to killing Jon Arryn to protect her kids.
And Ned STILL gives her a chance to strike first.

[Anonymous No.20131092]

>>20131077
Taking a member of the queen's family into custody on a whim, on her own initiative without consulting anyone, is dumber.

[Anonymous No.20131096]

>>20131091
>MERYN FUCKING TRANT

[Anonymous No.20131111]

>>20131092
>dumber
No. Rash, dumb, but objectively NOT dumber than Ned's decision to let Cersei have the first mover advantage even though she openly tells him that she killed Arryn (and tried to kill Bran) to protect herself and her kids. It was fucking obvious that she'd react by accusing Ned of treason and throwing him in a dungeon or straight up executing him. Fucking obvious. Yet Ned still expected her to meekly give up all her power and her kids' prospects and run away to foreign lands, persecuted by Robert's wrath.

Objectively dumber. Ned straight up killed himself.

[Anonymous No.20131130]

>>20131092
Stop insisting when you're clearly wrong. Ned should've gone immediately to Robert with his evidence, before Cersei could've planned her counterattack. Anything else is mongoloid tier thinking.
Compared to that, seizing the chance to capture Tyrion to have him tried for fear that he might otherwise hide somewhere with the Lannister's gold and connections, is nothing worth mentioning. Catelyn was rash but not nearly as retarded as Ned.

[Anonymous No.20131159]

>>20131092
Catelyn had no way to know it would degenerate into a full blown war because Robert would die immediately after she kidnapped Tyrion.
Plus, the Lannisters would've struck anyway, even if she hadn't done anything, they wanted war and were only biding their time. Catelyn's actions didn't really make this huge difference. Starks and Lannisters were fated to clash.

Ned instead could've hit the Lannisters hard and deep if he had gone immediately to Robert with his evidence. Cersei and Jaime would've been imprisoned/executed and Tywin would've at a minimum lost his influence at court (at a minimum). Robert could've also taken Cersei's kids hostage to keep the Lannisters in check. But Ned decided to have an extra chromosome that day.

[Anonymous No.20131180]

>>20131092
>>20130657
>>20131159
>Catelyn's actions didn't really make this huge difference
Let's imagine Catelyn never kidnaps Tyrion. The Lannisters still accuse the Starks of treason thanks to Ned's atrocious stupidity. Ned still gets killed, Sansa still gets taken hostage, Arya still has to run away, Robb still has to gather an army and march against the Lannisters or just give up on his family.

Catelyn's actions didn't change anything. Ned's did. He could've put Robert against the Lannisters and thrown them off from their position of dominance. Instead we got Joffrey as king, Cersei as regent, Jaime as the Hand, Tywin as ward of the West. Complete Lannister control. All thanks to Ned's idiocy.

Catelyn's and Ned's retardations are not really comparable.

[Anonymous No.20131284]

>>20131091
Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn, Cersei didn't even know he knew until Ned told her.. Littlefinger got his wife Lysa Tully to do it.

[Anonymous No.20131302]

>>20131159
>Plus, the Lannisters would've struck anyway, even if she hadn't done anything, they wanted war and were only biding their time
Until that point they literally did not think about the Starks at all nor was attacking necessary, they were already primed to take over Westeros peacefully according to Tywin's master plan until Littlefinger convinces the Starks that the Lannisters are out to get them and shit gets out of hand.

[Anonymous No.20131313]

>>20131302
Be that as it may, the fact is that Catelyn never had the power to cause or stop the events from happening. Blaming her abduction of Tyrion is absurd.

[Anonymous No.20131785]

>>20131159
>>20131180
Why did he do it? Honour would have compelled him to go straight to Robert no? He really expected Cersei not to fuck him over?

[Anonymous No.20131794]

>>20131302
What did littlefinger gain from causing all the chaos? He married Sansa off to Ramsey for nothing and then he fucking died.

[Anonymous No.20132342]

>>20119852
Stannis is the rightful king.

[Anonymous No.20132356]

>>20131785
Because he thought if he went to Robert then Cersei and Jaime would be executed immediately and Joffrey, Marcella and Tommen would be brutally killed by Robert which is not something Eddard wanted especially not after having recently started ruminating over the horrible deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon

[Anonymous No.20132368]

>>20132356
Oh also he told her in the hopes that once the incest was revealed, Cersei and her children would be far away from King's Landing so it wouldn't happen
He was planning to go to Robert afterwards but IIRC his warning to Cersei had forced her hand resulting in Robert's accident
Eddard planned to tell Robert while Robert was dying but he didn't because he wanted to spare his friend the suffering that knowledge that his children weren't his
I think it was his compassion here that really ruined him

[Anonymous No.20133372]

>>20131794
that was the show, in which unfortunately baelish suffered a terminal case of retardation.

in the books, he whisks sansa off to the aerie where he's grooming her for political subterfuge and pulling keikaku shenanigans to position himself as ruler, potentially planning to marry sansa himself or pairing her off with another lord to eventually reveal her as the true heir to winterfell after the rest of the warring has died down, where she'll be his puppet.

basically he wants sansa as a proxy to catelyn who he's still salty over losing, and he's working on hoodwinking the lords of the aerie in various ways. the war of five kings was essentially a massive distraction so he could get rich, get his girl, and burn down house stark as a cherry on top because they wronged him as a boy.