/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20116840]

Is surrealism based? Why were they so adamant about supporting le communism?

[Anonymous No.20116849]

>>20116840
Salvador Dalí quite literally loved Hitler and supported Francisco Franco. Was expelled because of it. Communism was le new trendy thing so of course all these posers supported it, like NPCs who support Ukraine right now.

[Anonymous No.20116852]

>>20116840
anything is based if done in a based way

[Anonymous No.20116855]

Back then people understood what communism meant. That’s why over two thirds of the world supported it in one form or another.
Nowadays we’re just at the tail end of the unipolar neoliberal empire, so it has one last chance to succeed.

Surrealism is pretty based. Socialists have inspired a lot of art. It’s not all just brutalism and socialist-realism

[Anonymous No.20116856]

>>20116855
What's so good about communism?

[Anonymous No.20116864]

>>20116849
>Communism was le new trendy thing
That had been around over a hundred years at the time
>posers who support Ukraine
That’s a psyops. A massive advertising campaign to whitewash a fascist regime. Nothing comparable.

[Anonymous No.20116869]

>>20116856
Ever read William Morris?
Read News from Nowhere. A simple utopian, but this was the dream.

[Anonymous No.20116880]

>>20116856
When done in the right conditions, you can triple your GDP like Bolivia did

[Anonymous No.20116882]

>>20116864
>That had been around over a hundred years at the time
...a new thing doesnt mean the idea has to be new. Gurus are old but they were still a "new thing" to 1960s American collage students. same with a communist government actually being.

[Anonymous No.20116916]

>>20116840
Long story short: counter-initiation.
Surrealism is based on spiritual mediumship and automatic writing (see Andre Breton). It is a materialist art movement with materialist politics.
As a matter of fact, all abstract art is rooted in counter-initiatory doctrines and practices, staring with Theosophy (see Hilma Af Klint).
Here's a long Wikipedia article all about it:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy_and_visual_arts

[Anonymous No.20116932]

>>20116916
>Surrealism is based on spiritual mediumship and automatic writing
I always interpreted it as a way to realize the unconscious forces and individuate the personality. Didn’t Jung do something similar?

[Anonymous No.20117352]

>>20116840
It was unfortunately a bit of a failed outing. In the mid-to-late twenties they were big supporters of communism—because the surrealists sought total liberation, in the realms of reason and the (un)conscious, but also from bourgeois mores and material alienation, for which they saw a solution in marxism—most became party members, and so wanted surrealism to become *the* artistic/intellectual movement of communism. For this to succeed however, they would have to tow the party line, be more and more ideological, at the expense of what made surrealism surrealism. But for the official party, they were always too heterodox, superstructural, and it’s clear they didn’t want themselves and “proletarian culture” represented by surrealists—there was thus a great tension, at some internationalist congress in the 30s, from Moscow, and within the movement itself. So too one sees Breton lash out at Bataille for not being dialectical enough, while the communists thought the same thing about the surrealists in general. In 1935 they broke with the communist party though, and afterwards were more trotskyist and anarchist.

>>20116916
Many surrealists admired or were influenced by Guénon however: Daumal, Artaud, and even Breton: they all accepted his critique of the modern world and were interested in esotericism. But, you might say, in their own heterodox way (just like their communism), which opens the possibility for perversion, the pseudo- or counter- (as counter-initiation is closer to true initiation than to mere quantity, but errs, strays from tradition in some way).

[Anonymous No.20117363]

>>20116856

[Anonymous No.20117373]

>>20117363
wtf I'm a commie now

[Anonymous No.20117382]

>>20117363

[Anonymous No.20117384]

>>20117373
This is /lit/. If you're not a communist, you're not reading enough

[Anonymous No.20117924]

bump

[Anonymous No.20117986]

>>20117363
>>20117373
>>20117384
Lmao look at these utopianist retards shilling for something that will never work. I feel bad for you.

[Anonymous No.20118316]

>>20117384
The left can’t meme

[Anonymous No.20118333]

>>20118316
>He doesn’t get it.
>There’s too many words for him.

[Anonymous No.20118341]

>>20117384
embarrassing

[Anonymous No.20118360]

>>20116855

No, surrealism wasn't inspired in socialist ideas. The political choices of some of its members had nothing to do with it as a cause or inspiration.

[Anonymous No.20118368]

>>20118333
No, he's right.

[Anonymous No.20118372]

>>20116880

> When done in the right conditions

Let me guess, never done right so let's keep trying?

One could say the exact same thing about fascism.

[Anonymous No.20118398]

>>20117363

Smells like bullshit, commie scum.

[Anonymous No.20118437]

>>20118368
The red and black ball aren’t progressives (like in the byline of thatnbook)

>>20118360
It’s about dreams and such, but it came out of DaDa, which was always from an anti-war left

[Anonymous No.20118467]

>>20118372
he gave you an example right there you dolt

[Anonymous No.20118474]

>>20117986
>>20118316
>>20118398
Why don't you actually try refuting any (1) of those claims?

[Anonymous No.20118522]

>>20118474
Which claim? Shitalin was a retard that died while shittiing and pissing himself. Millions and millions of soviets died because of paranoia and incompetence. And reading more books doesn't make you a communist, but reading communist "literature" makes you a tranny. I always cringe whenever I see some marxoid portraying himself as a smartass because he reads a lot of communist propaganda. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous No.20118697]

>>20116932
No. Surrealist automatism is someone breaking down their natural barriers to demonic occult forces that overtake their "unconscious" and literally possess the person. All vulgar occultism does this. It also abounds in avant-garde art. See Artaud or Burroughs; Burroughs happens to check both boxes. People with clinical schizophrenia lack the barriers that the rest of us have that protect us from such an invasion. There are other conditions and states that have similar or same effects.

[Anonymous No.20118699]

>>20118522
>I’ve only read liberal propaganda to reinforce my xenophobia and general hatred of the masses

It is true that some college boys get a swelled head when they happen upon the truth of our age, and they might jump to some hasty conclusions as to how best to go about engineering positive changes, but they’re still smarter than you.
Get over your own self.

I like David Graeber.

[Anonymous No.20118732]

>>20118699
>my shitty cuckmunist """literature""" is like... so heckin' deep and hard bro
>I read big boy books, unlike you
>I smart you dumb
Lmao, this is so stupid.
>muh truth
Cope harder. Your dumb utopian fantasies will never work.

[Anonymous No.20118773]

>>20117384
>commies think that all the people criticising them are the most retarded form of liberal
I guess if you were retarded enough to be a communist you would have to pretend that your opponents are all from the one political group more retarded than you are.
Socialist Utopianism is based on a conception of human nature that was proven wrong by archeological evidence (along with fundamental aspects of biological science) decades ago. No utopians should be taken seriously, they are almost all just materialist/secular variants of religious zealots, the left attitude to Marxism is so comparable to the attitude of certain Christians, even down to falsely predicting the day of reckoning (whether that day is the revolution or the apocalypse) again and again because it’s a fundamentally life denying belief system, it cannot live in the world because it doesn’t seek to understand the world, it seeks an easy way out.

[Anonymous No.20118832]

>>20118697
Not the guy you're replying to but that is fascinating. Do you have a personal stance on invocation as an occult practice? Good/bad?

[Anonymous No.20118967]

>>20116840
>tfw socially right wing but economically left wing
There truly is no place for me. I will never support niggers and trannies.

[Anonymous No.20118985]

>>20116880
GDP doesn't really mean anything. You could have 0 GDP and be the most advanced society on Earth.

[Anonymous No.20119020]

>>20118967
>>tfw socially right wing but economically left wing
>There truly is no place for me.
Most (in-power) communist parties had outlooks like this, the USSR was far less tolerant of gays and promiscuity than the USA was in the latter half of the 20th century, most Russians miss the USSR and hate gays at the same time.

[Anonymous No.20119027]

>>20119020
>most Russians miss the USSR
https://youtu.be/h0HZP9p-mnE
comrades...

[Anonymous No.20119035]

>>20119020
What went so wrong with leftism? Where is this modern love of faggotry even coming from?

[Anonymous No.20119066]

>>20118985
This is a relatively common Marxist critique of GDP

[Anonymous No.20119113]

>>20119027
I’m not a communist, I had just heard they (and especially Putin) missed the USSR. My point was just that the “social conservative, economic leftist” perspective is only fringe among western “leftists” found at universities, who are really just liberals because they care a lot more about individuals being permitted to do what they like than they do about a community push for the good of the whole over the good of the individual
>>20119035
It’s pretty much always been this way in western leftist academia, certainly for the last century or so. They start out being liberals primarily interested in individual rights (usually rights like abortion and permissiveness for homosexuality) and kvetching about race/gender inequality; they have an instinct of tending toward rebellion against what they see as authority in the government they live under while doing this, thus they seek for alternative, and at the time when these movements were gaining steam the big opposition to capitalism/liberalism was communism, and so they patched into that, it’s kind of a form of contrarianism that particularly manifests in support of another peer group, another team to root for. This was compounded by communist countries inviting western academics to visit and putting on show tours of soviet life (which was all dressed up and truth obfuscated), they would pretend to be tolerant of homosexuality and similar abbormalities in order to get those western academics supporting communism with the goal of inspiring communist revolution in the west, of course if that revolution had happened, those progressive academics would mostly have been sent to work camps or killed because their social progressiveness would’ve been seen as subversive. Of course the USSR collapsed and the leftists academics who idolised communism are now owned by corporate interests and a fundamentally liberal mindset, the communist revolution isn’t going to happen, you don’t start a revolution by getting a bunch of dyel soys dykes and homos to support your group, you have to appeal to the common man and more importantly to the military, I have friends in the military for my country and they are pretty much all typically liberal ideologically, though edging on a more conservative side of liberal (with the exception of the marines who are all reactionaries), there is not an impending Marxist revolution, maybe China can turn that around but China seems more like it’s inclined to an aesthetically communist return to Han cultural supremacism and the conservatism that defined the 2000 years of their history prior to the fall of the Qing

[Anonymous No.20119184]

>>20118773
>t. pseud who has never read Marx
If you actually tried reading some books rather than regurgitating what you heard thirdhand about socialism from some talk show host, you'd know that Marx, Engels and co utterly loathed utopian socialists. Even just reading the Communist Manifesto would teach you that, but you've revealed you have not even taking that tiniest of steps. Brainless midwit.
They considered utopian socialism so wrong-headed that criticism of it merited inclusion in that overgrown pamphlet slapped together in two weeks aimed at being comprehensible by borderline illiterate workers and bourgeoisie participating in the liberal and nationalist revolts of 1848 known as the Communist Manifesto. That was when people self identifying as communists numbered maybe 1500 dissidents scattered across the Germanies, France and England who were hoping that liberal forces would triumph in 1848 and throwing out their manifesto in hopes people would seize onto them as common demands.
Stop posting, go read some actual Marx and Engels.

[Anonymous No.20119596]

>>20118832
Depends on a lot. Attempts at initiatic esoteric practice are centered around direct experience of nondual, i.e. transcendental states. Meditation and then energy work such as chi gung are the bedrock. Empty mind and free flowing energy.
Invocation/theurgy is extremely dangerous, damn near a spiritual death sentence and surviving traditions that have it do not allow for it to be done without a guru, at least until you can stand on your own.
The jury's out as to whether people like Crowley survived. Having read his notes I can say that at the very least he never lost sight of the unconditioned while he was alive, in spite of all else.

[Anonymous No.20119624]

>>20119596
This books a good primer
https://archive.org/details/B-001-014-064/mode/2up

[Anonymous No.20119714]

>>20118467

No, he didn't. The left has been a plague over Latin America for decades (much worse than the right), the Bolivian example is just bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20119751]

>>20116856
bankers get off sent to the gulag and management lives in perpetual fear

[Anonymous No.20119757]

>>20116916
hilma af klimt was retconned as a major figure recently

[Anonymous No.20119760]

>>20117986
>utopianist retards shilling for something that will never work
like capitalism?

[Anonymous No.20119782]

>>20119760
Capitalism clearly works anon, stop coping.

[Anonymous No.20119846]

>>20116856

You get to stay fit with your one meal per day. No fatties allowed.

[Anonymous No.20119865]

>>20119760
it has lasted over three centuries in britain, 2 and a half continuously in the united states
>muh civil war
which was won by the central liberal capitalist modernising power
It is fair to say that capitalism has tremendous issues, but "not working" on any kind of historical scale is not one of them, all systems rise decline and fall, but it took capitalism 200 years to begin it's decline in earnest whereas the USSR fell after less than a century, China shows growing success, but this is in large part from adopting aspects of capitalism in limited capacity whilst maintaining some of communisms more cultural control, and will likely long term represent something more akin to China's long history of centralised bureaucratic autocracy.

[Anonymous No.20119897]

>>20118372
Fascism was done right in Spain.

[Anonymous No.20119897,1]

>>20119782
>Hey, look pal! Of course capitalism works! We’re going to go extinct before the end of the century! All a part of the plan. Just chill with the antisemitic stuff.

[Anonymous No.20119897,2]

>>20119897
>Foreign mercenaries. International capitalism to fund it. Biden doing the exact same

[Anonymous No.20120018]

>>20117363
>> "hurr hurr hurr this will get the japanese to surrender
It did.

[Anonymous No.20120162]

>>20116840
Didn't Breton's commie autism ended up destroying the group because he alienated everyone but the most radical commies?

[Anonymous No.20120174]

>>20119035
>What went so wrong with leftism? Where is this modern love of faggotry even coming from?

It was there all along. IIRC Marx and Engels both loved Bachofen's Mutterrecht/ur-matriarchy shit and Engels believed that families should be destroyed because the husband's oppression of the wife is the ur-oppression from which all other forms of exploitation originate.

[Anonymous No.20120238]

>>20120162
>Threw out Bataille
>Threw out Artaud
>Dali ended up as a big fan of Franco
Breton alienated everyone that understood Surrealism better than him

[Anonymous No.20120269]

Unironically, this is the final word on Marx. This is a complete and total dismantling of everything he believed. If you are a Marxist in 2022 you are either hell bent on killing as many people as possible or your have your head so far up your own ass that they only moral thing we can do for you is severe it.

https://youtu.be/j_MXSE3wUT4

[Anonymous No.20120898]

bump

[Anonymous No.20121454]

>>20119897
Biden and the other neoliberals have studied their tactics.

[Anonymous No.20122378]

[Anonymous No.20123465]

>>20120269
>Jordan Peterson
Consume better sources, Anon.

[Anonymous No.20124097]

>>20123465
What did he get wrong? You can't name one thing.

[Anonymous No.20125058]

>>20124097
JP is an airhead. Without listening to it, I can assume he gets quite a bit wrong.