Authors views

[Anonymous No.20099804]

With the exception of Mieville, LeGuin, Martin and Ligotti, why are left-wing authors incapable of separating their personal politics from their novels? What forces them to include it when there’s no need? This is something I’ve come to notice the more I read them. Why?

[Anonymous No.20099814]

>>20099804
>*looks up author's political affiliation before he reads a book*
Fucking Americans.

[Anonymous No.20099819]

Comfort in the fact that there is a whole institution devoted to praising them for it, and shaming those on the other side for doing the same

[Anonymous No.20099841]

>>20099804
stop thinking in terms of "us and them" and you'll be able to separate the aesthetic from its creator. if you see their work as "black or white" "male or female" "rich or poor" you'll get filtered

[Anonymous No.20099848]

>with the exception of LeGuin
Haven't actually read her so correct me if I'm wrong but isn't her writing commie as fuck?

[Anonymous No.20099855]

Direction??!! Direction anyone??
Can anyone please tell me a political compass direction of a thing!!! Please!!!!! The thing isn't heckin wrong direction, right?

[Anonymous No.20099902]

>>20099848
yea but it’s actually high brow so she gets a pass

[Anonymous No.20099959]

it's always weird to me when a left-winger writes heroric fantasy when it's inherently the most masculine, right-wing genre of fiction there is (aside from nautical fiction)

[Anonymous No.20099971]

>>20099814
>>20099841
>>20099855
>OP said he read books and found out that the leftist authors permeate their work with their political beliefs
>Ignore this to shit post.
I know /lit/ doesn't read, but for fuck sakes, try and make it less obvious.

[Anonymous No.20099973]

ligotti, leguin and mieville are wrote heavily political works that are influenced by their personal politics. try reading before making a thread.

[Anonymous No.20099987]

i read this one ursula leguin book and it was literally guy from communist planet goes to capitalist planet and is disgusted with it

it was a good book though and had some nuanced ideas and good characters

what makes her good isn't separating her personal politics from her novels, it's being prepared to interrogate and explore them

[Anonymous No.20100041]

>>20099804
Outside of Ligotti, Le Guin, Martin and Mieville, I have no idea who the left authors are. Am I in the clear? Anyways, Gene Wolfe beats all of them. Glad to know he's on the right side of history.

[Anonymous No.20100193]

>>20099987
>ursula leguin
Is she any good? Should I read her?

[Anonymous No.20100218]

>>20099804
Tell me lower center left, why does he wear the mask?

[Anonymous No.20100227]

>>20099848
>commie as fuck
Nah. Just read her stuff, she's a wonderful writer

[Anonymous No.20100275]

>>20099804
I don't typically check the author political affliction, I only drop books when they get blatantly political.

[Anonymous No.20100291]

>>20099804
Lovecraft was a big supporter of the New Deal. Bakker is a /pol/chud.

[Anonymous No.20100312]

>>20099814
Rent free at all times

[Anonymous No.20100326]

>>20100291
>Bakker is a /pol/chud.
He isn't. He's a leftist/progressive.

[Anonymous No.20100347]

>>20100291
lovecraft was a racist aristocrat socialist, a fascist anglo supremacist jack london type

[Anonymous No.20100856]

>>20100227
But she rarely gets mention in /sffg/

[Anonymous No.20100869]

>>20099804
Vox Day literally gobbles tranny cock, wing-ism is a mental disorder

[Anonymous No.20100988]

>>20100856
That shitty general is probably the worst place in all of 4chan

[Anonymous No.20101023]

>>20099814
rent free

[Anonymous No.20101036]

>>20099819
not all ideas are created equal

[Anonymous No.20101076]

>>20099959
Thinking of people on the right as more masculine is just your own prejudice.

[Anonymous No.20101091]

>>20100227
>>20099902
I didn't mean to sound so negative. I have been meaning to read Le Guin for a while now, Just haven't gotten round to it.

[Anonymous No.20101113]

>>20099804
Who are the other right wing authors other than Jordan, Howard, Tolkien, and Lovecraft?

[Anonymous No.20101145]

>>20099804
>putting Ligotti into a political ""wing""
His whole point is that all human activity is a grim farce, politics included. Maybe you could argue his desire for legalized euthansia is socially liberal, but even that's a stretch.

[Anonymous No.20101323]

>>20101113
legends.

[Anonymous No.20101358]

>>20101323
QRD?

[Anonymous No.20101437]

>>20101145
people who don't care about politics aren't inherently conservative

[Anonymous No.20101441]

>>20101437
>aren't
are

[Anonymous No.20102031]

>>20101145
So, he's more of a centrist?

[Anonymous No.20102309]

>>20099804
On Moorcock, that's hardly fair, he may be a left lib but his novels are never about that.

[Anonymous No.20102375]

>>20099959
I'm a left wing non white tranny and I love nautical fiction

[Anonymous No.20102376]

>>20101076
more of a fact than a prejudice...

[Anonymous No.20102378]

Once she hit menopause, Leguin became a typical shrill, virtue signaling, wokescold, legbeard feminist harpy.
She probably was one all along. She just hid it better when she was younger

[Anonymous No.20102408]

>>20099804
Can someone do a full list of the authors on the right?

[Anonymous No.20102411]

Who cares?

[Anonymous No.20102430]

>>20102411
I bet you would think it's non political and centrist for someone to ask for recommendations for progressively aligned speculative fiction.

[Anonymous No.20102443]

>>20102430
It's pretty telling that you equate political independence with centrism... which, of course, has no bearing or meaning without the puerile left/right dichotomy from which the centrist—under your definition—ostensibly abstains. So, succinctly: no. You are wrong.

[Anonymous No.20102488]

>>20102443
Would you or would you not think it as being controversial if someone asked, whether in a real life space or a virtual one, about recommendations for speculative fiction authors with progressive views and subtexts?

My presupposition is that, while you claim political independence and non-conformity, you hold to 'non-political' beliefs like 'progress' and 'reason', are more sympathetic and understanding towards a certain aisle, and are setting yourself up above a 'lower' dichotomy when you have not critically looked within yourself to realize that you are still solidly within an non-traditional camp.

[Anonymous No.20102514]

>>20102488
>you hold to 'non-political' beliefs like 'progress'
First of all, stop shoving shit into my mouth if you want to actually hear what comes out of it. No, I don't hold to any ideal of progress unless a specific issue requires progress to improve.

My beliefs are non-denominational on a meta-level. I see the ingroup memberships and the tribalism by which you are, incidentally, trying to figure out what "camp" I'm in (presumably to start arguing against that camp from your position within your own self-identified camp), as the problem in-and-of-itself. It is this rigid adherence to the tribal membership which itself contributes to the near-total breakdown in communication which leads the West closer and closer to conflict and war. THAT is the dynamic above which I choose to hold myself. I will not allow dogmatic, extrinsic influence as much as I can manage it.

To answer your question, when I see people asking for recommendations pandering to their political ingroup membership, I just ignore it. If I'm feeling up for it (I rarely am, these days) I'll try to kickstart a discussion on the deleterious impact of neo-tribal membership and where it might lead us. But I've found that to most people, their chosen tribe is so tightly interwoven with their identity that they are unwilling to entertain even the possibility that it is the intensity by which the tribes interrelate which is the problem rather than the specifics of what any one tribe believes.

Now it's my turn to guess: you are precisely one of those people.

[Anonymous No.20102522]

>>20099804
>Tolkien, Wolfe, and Herbert on the right
My favorite authors. Based

[Anonymous No.20102603]

>>20101113
>>20101358
they are basic legends of fantasy come on mate educate yourself you should know them already

[Anonymous No.20102709]

>>20102488
chud is mad

[Anonymous No.20103821]

>>20102522
Same

[Anonymous No.20104405]

>>20102408
Why would you want one?

[Anonymous No.20104433]

>>20101113
Heinlein, Herbert, E. R. Eddison.

[Anonymous No.20104519]

>>20099814

[Anonymous No.20104681]

>>20099814
rent free!

[Anonymous No.20104689]

kim stanley robinson is another retarded lefty SF writer

[Anonymous No.20104852]

>>20099804
Le Guin is the only one worth reading on the left side.

[Anonymous No.20105062]

>>20099959
Most nautical fiction never seemed particularly right wing to me. Patrick O'Brian in particularl always comes across as oddly borderline "woke".

[Anonymous No.20105107]

>>20105062
>Patrick O'Brian in particularl always comes across as oddly borderline "woke".
Christ, if you think Patrick O'Brian is woke, then you're hopeless.

[Anonymous No.20105140]

>>20105107
I do not actually think this, I am not insane, although I have seen people say things similar to that effect elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.20105267]

>>20105140
>although I have seen people say things similar to that effect elsewhere
Then they're hopeless.

[Anonymous No.20105584]

>>20102411
People, if someone made this thread.

[Anonymous No.20105623]

To be fair OP at least in Tolkien and Wolfe you can clearly tell that they're right-wingers if not only because they don't start kvetching whenever a social order outside of the liberal-democratic comes into the story. If a lefty wrote their works you would get
>Here's this 9 foot tall Exultant who eats corpses....that's ok....but....does he have a heckin' villa?? He's heckin' gene edited (is that racist?)....I'm going insane!
>Aragorn becomes the Prophesized King....but hopefully democracy is....LE SOON
t. rightoid

[Anonymous No.20105641]

>>20099804
Who's the guy with the hat on the right? I knew and forgot xD tell me plz

[Anonymous No.20105857]

>>20105641
Robert E Howard, the guy who wrote the Conan stories.

[Anonymous No.20105866]

>>20099804
Leftists think collectively. They lack individualist motivations by their nature.

[Anonymous No.20106043]

>>20104689
this. i hate that pretentious cunt

[Anonymous No.20106060]

>>20100856
/sffg/ is absolute cancer though, LeGuin is one of the absolute best speculative fiction writers but whenever you mention her in /sffg/ you get ten retards replying to you saying "I don't read women writers"
Her, along with Wolfe, Peake, and Crowley, are some of the best fantasy has to offer

[Anonymous No.20106553]

>>20106060
>LeGuin is one of the absolute best speculative fiction writers but whenever you mention her in /sffg/ you get ten retards replying to you saying "I don't read women writers"
It's literally one anon that does that. He makes /sffg/ his personal shitting grounds because he seethes whenever people discuss books and authors who aren't his literal who canadian author.

[Anonymous No.20107655]

>>20099959
It's really not since heroic fantasy is generally black and white enough that any antagonistic force can be equal parts left or right wing. See Sauron from Lord of the Rings, Chaos from Warhammer (Which I know isn't really Heroic fantasy), and most of the major villains in D&D.

Basically, it's very easy to make a allegory for Trump, or Obama, or whatever real life political figure you dislike.

[Anonymous No.20107670]

>>20105623
Tolkien is weird though insofar that he was also a massive cuck for nature preservation, which nowadays is peak left wing.

[Anonymous No.20107687]

>>20099804
> why are left-wing authors incapable of separating their personal politics from their novels?
Right wing authors are literally not a hair better, but the fact they support the status quo means it's generally done unthinkingly and you don't notice it as much.

[Anonymous No.20107707]

>>20099848
Commie in the anarchist sense.

[Anonymous No.20108307]

>>20107670
Stop talking. You don’t know anything.

[Anonymous No.20108573]

>>20107670
this is too stupid to not be b8

[Anonymous No.20108589]

>>20099804
Damn, Tolkien was a chad in his younger days.

[Anonymous No.20108977]

>>20099804
could you name the authors on the right? i knew just tolkien and lovecraft

[Anonymous No.20109088]

>>20108977
You being serious?

[Anonymous No.20109096]

>>20109088
Yeah, im being serious.
I'd like to check the other authors

[Anonymous No.20109104]

>>20109096
The guy with the white hate is Robert E. Howard. The old man with the glasses is Wolfe.
I suggest starting with either of those two.

[Anonymous No.20109173]

>>20109104
Thanks, I'll go over their work!

[Anonymous No.20109207]

>>20099959
They'll praise fiction where the heavy-handed strongman saves the day but call mowing your lawn fascism.

[Anonymous No.20109282]

>>20099804
Do you know what "speculative fiction" means?

[Anonymous No.20109331]

>>20099804
Because lefties think they're right about everything. That's it.
They think they're giving a grand gift to the world by showing everyone how right they are and of course it's their obligation to do so as the heroes of the world.

[Anonymous No.20109803]

>>20109173
Hope you enjoy them.

[Anonymous No.20110851]

>>20108589
>Tolkien was a chad in his younger days
He was a soldier

[Anonymous No.20110893]

>things I agree with : facts
>things I disagree with : propaganda and ideology fuelled

[Anonymous No.20111543]

>>20110893
Those aren't really arguments.

[Anonymous No.20112151]

>>20109282
a genre of fiction that encompasses works in which the setting is other than the real world, involving supernatural, futuristic, or other imagined elements.

[Anonymous No.20112194]

>>20099804
Right wing "politics" is more based in Apollonian individuality and individuation, therefore it is actually opposed to the idea of "politics" itself, left wing politics is Dionysian and requires principles, ie political ideas and ideologies, in order to demolish the naturally arisen Apollonian tendencies of humans in favor of a collective and undifferentiated mass (the man being subject to the idea, or more accurately the mass of men being subject to the individuated idea, is the basic instinct of leftism).

[Anonymous No.20112364]

>>20112194
Ain't none gonna take this nigga seriously

[Anonymous No.20112410]

>>20112364
Why?

[Anonymous No.20113101]

>>20112410
Because you use Dionysian and Apollonia

[Anonymous No.20113437]

>>20107670
on the contrary, it's the rightwing that lives in rural areas and wants to preserve that lifestyle, whereas the leftists typically live in big cities, just like the Orcs do, and who want to spread that lifestyle to everyone.

[Anonymous No.20113460]

>>20099804
where would Raymond E Feist, Robert Jordan, Melanie Rawn, David Eddings and Terry Brooks fall on this left/right list?

[Anonymous No.20113516]

>>20100218
It doesn't matter who he is. What matters is his political opinions, CIA.

[Anonymous No.20114275]

>>20113460
What are there political beliefs?

[Anonymous No.20114780]

>>20107655
>See Sauron from Lord of the Rings
Sauron's army is incredibly racially and ethnically diverse: orcs, uruk-hai (human/orc half-breeds), Dunlendings, brown and black Haradrim, Easterlings etc fighting against fair elves and white men. Really activates your almonds.

[Anonymous No.20115684]

>>20099804
can someone please name all of these people from left to right?

[Anonymous No.20116164]

>>20115684
With the exception of Martin and Le Guin, the authors on the left are best forgotten.

[Anonymous No.20116221]

>>20112194
>Imagine being a Nietzchean

[Anonymous No.20117186]

>>20099804
>why are left-wing authors incapable of separating their personal politics from their novels?
Does this hold true for literary authors as well.

[Anonymous No.20118155]

>>20117186
Yes

[Anonymous No.20118281]

>>20112194
You should have never read The Birth of Tragedy

[Anonymous No.20118315]

What makes Ligotti left? I don't understan

[Anonymous No.20118792]

>>20118315
he identifies as a socialist.

[Anonymous No.20119335]

>>20118792
That’s a shame.

[Anonymous No.20119708]

>>20116221
What's wrong with being Nietzchean

[Anonymous No.20119843]

>>20104405
They're the better authors anon

[Anonymous No.20120563]

>>20114780
It's because Mordor was a colonial power whereas the good guy countries were not

[Anonymous No.20120588]

>>20099804
Politics are an inseparable part of the human condition, and any comprehensive discussion on human nature must therefore include politic of some sort. That being said, the ability to appreciate the work of someone you politically disagree with is a sign of cognitive maturity. If being exposed to alternative politics makes you irate, then you are an intellectual infant.

[Anonymous No.20120618]

>>20120588
>That being said, the ability to appreciate the work of someone you politically disagree with is a sign of cognitive maturity. If being exposed to alternative politics makes you irate, then you are an intellectual infant.
If done with nuance like Le Guin, sure, I'm willing to give it a try. The problem is that most leftists authors on the charts, or in general, aren't Le Guin and hamfist their beliefs like Ayn Rand

[Anonymous No.20120675]

>>20120618
Who on that list is ham-fisted? GURM's work is pure nihilism, containing no moral messaging whatsoever. Erikson's work champions the common soldier, and his diagnoses of the flaws of all sorts of political systems from neoliberal capitalism to traditional societies are incisive and on point. Hell, I'm reading Abercrombie's First Law right now and he seems to be more critical of the decadent, mercantile Union than anyone else.

I haven't read Bakker nor do I mean to.

[Anonymous No.20120695]

>>20120675
Not him, but I do believe GURM’s a song of ice and fire is a bit heavy on the nihilism at times. Not helped by the author fiat that he shows. Yes, sure, there’s moments of hope and idealism, but when it’s swamped with Nihilism and Cynicism, it’s gets tiresome at times.

[Anonymous No.20120705]

>>20120695
I agree 100%. But if you think that's leftist I guess we have very different definitions of it

[Anonymous No.20120718]

>>20120705
Not really leftist, more like the author’s personal beliefs tainting the story they’re writing

[Anonymous No.20120741]

>>20120695
>GURM’s a song of ice and fire is a bit heavy on the nihilism at times. Not helped by the author fiat that he shows.
This and
>>20120718
>more like the author’s personal beliefs tainting the story they’re writing
Are my biggest gripes in fantasy and science fiction. At times, it feels like the authors is simply writing to reaffirm some belief they have at the expense of any other. I've seen some of them handle it gracefully that I can tolerate it, but the majority, I can't.

[Anonymous No.20121469]

>>20120741
>>more like the author’s personal beliefs tainting the story they’re writing

Its another libertarian Scifi writer makes a story about a colony seceding from Earth due to taxes and tariffs episode.

[Anonymous No.20122176]

>>20121469
>libertarian Scifi writer makes a story about a colony seceding from Earth due to taxes and tariffs episode
How common is this?

[Anonymous No.20123235]

>>20120695
>>20120705
>>20120741
it's not nihilistic at all, some of you can't even read a lowbrow fantasy series properly

[Anonymous No.20123248]

>>20099804
Why do you think right-wing authors are exempt from this? It’s literally impossible to write a book that exists entirely outside of your ideological framework, authors inevitably impress parts of themselves into their works whether they want to or not.

[Anonymous No.20123270]

>>20099848
It is, but she only starts becoming preachy in the 80s/90s. Otherwise her books are excellent, despite how commie they are.

[Anonymous No.20123445]

>>20123235
I was going to make fun of you with some low effort post, but I'm trying to be better.

So please explain to us, Anon. What is the moral takeaway of ASOIAF.

[Anonymous No.20123468]

>>20117186
>implying Scifi/Fantasy authors aren’t literary

[Anonymous No.20123490]

>>20106060
>whenever you mention her in /sffg/ you get ten retards replying to you saying "I don't read women writers"

This is so cool lol

[Anonymous No.20123606]

>>20123468
Only Wolfe, Tolkien and Le Guin are literary

[Anonymous No.20123661]

>>20107687
>Right wing authors are literally not a hair better, but the fact they support the status quo
If you think the status quo is rightwing, you are officially going into the nut house.

[Anonymous No.20123687]

>>20107670
Environmentalism was mainly a conservative talking point. Industrialism and democratization were seen as related (which was the obvious impression one would get looking around them).

[Anonymous No.20123745]

>>20123661
Right wing (a typically traditional/conservative framework) is all about preserving the status quo, yes. This isn’t a problematic statement, what you see as the status quo is actually what is currently eroding the pre-existing traditions and instructions that right wingers value.

[Anonymous No.20124267]

>>20123687
>Environmentalism was mainly a conservative talking point.
It still is, don't be fooled.

[Anonymous No.20124360]

>>20123606
what does it take for a Scifi/fantasy novel to be literary?

[Anonymous No.20125655]

>>20124360
They got accepted into academia. Some fantasy authors would kill to get that.

[Anonymous No.20125675]

>>20125655
academia fucking sucks though.

[Anonymous No.20125679]

>>20099841
no

[Anonymous No.20125724]

>>20125675
Some authors seethe in their personal blogs being rejected by them.

[Anonymous No.20125754]

>>20125724
>authors seethe in their personal blogs
Bakker doesn't like to be rejected. He's incredibly petty.

[Anonymous No.20125790]

>>20125754
Christ, he’s actually pathetic.

[Anonymous No.20125873]

>>20125790
Being rejected does that to you. Same about him still seething about some ex-girlfriend's mother.

[Anonymous No.20126077]

>>20125655
What do you mean by "accepted into academia"? As a literary professor?

[Anonymous No.20126367]

>>20099804
combination of:

left-wing ideals (i.e. goo goo gaa gaa world peace no poverty love is love) is more palpable to the general audience so it doesn't have to be hidden

right-wing ideals are literally predicated in not caring about everything in the world, "not my king/class/family/country/race, not my problem". "everything is political" is a left-wing phrase, so the fiction world is more readily seen as an extension of the political arena by leftists

left-wing authors are just midwits and can't into subtlety

[Anonymous No.20127024]

>>20126367
>left-wing authors are just midwits and can't into subtlety
This has some basis of truth, sadly.