/lit/ - Literature

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/clg/ - Classical Languages General Anonymous Mon Mar 21 02:52:30 2022 No.20097197 [Reply] [Original]

𓅓𓌃𓂧𓅱𓂋𓏺𓈖 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖 edition

Feel free to share your experiences, resources, and sufferings from studying literary and old languages (except Latin) that nobody but autists bother with.
Latin studiers, Latin general is that-a-way -----> >>20090148

Previous: >>20077087

Greek/Latin Mega - https://mega dot nz/folder/9o4QEIIK#P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 02:55:14 2022 No.20097206 >>20097197 FUCK every language other than English.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 03:02:31 2022 No.20097220 If by fuck you mean ""hit" the books" for hours on end, that's the idea.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 04:44:20 2022 No.20097498 >>20097197 >𓅓𓌃𓂧𓅱𓂋𓏺𓈖 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖 >𓂋𓏺𓈖 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖 >r n kmt >language of Egypt What’s the whole translation?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:09:15 2022 No.20097556 How the hell do you learn where to put accents on verbs in greek? On nouns its easy but i cant figure out the verbs

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:23:29 2022 No.20097596 >>20097498 mdw r n km.t to speak/speaking the language of Egypt it's missing the determinative of a man with his hand to his mouth, though

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:26:07 2022 No.20097603 >>20097596 There’s no need of this determinative in “r”. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/r_n_kmt

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:27:54 2022 No.20097610 >>20097603 i'm talking about the infinitive of mdwj

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:29:09 2022 No.20097612 >>20097610 Oh, sorry. Am dumb.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:31:40 2022 No.20097621 File: 73 KB, 308x400, Papyrus_Ebers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What's your favourite non-literary text genre to read? I love reading Egyptian medical texts because they contain such interesting terminology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:39:34 2022 No.20097637 >>20097596 Wrong, it's just the noun form

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:40:32 2022 No.20097640 Here's how Egyptian determinatives work You use them to clear up a word that sounds like another word Meat (flesh) Meet (together) It is rather convuluted but that's just hieroglyphics

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:42:24 2022 No.20097644 >>20097637 what text? it could be both the noun form and the infinitive without context

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:43:31 2022 No.20097646 >>20097644 Its called a gerund

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:45:39 2022 No.20097653 No one can actually read hieroglyphs

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:46:06 2022 No.20097656 >>20097646 the gerund is technically the infinitive so the translation would be 'a speaking' instead of 'speech' which is the noun mdw >>20097640 mdw is also the word for 'staff', says Allen

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:46:12 2022 No.20097657 >>20097653 Why do you say that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:46:56 2022 No.20097661 >>20097197 How do I best learn greek grammar - Does any technique exist that helps one retain all that information?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:50:04 2022 No.20097666 >>20097661 Get the oxford greek grammar

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:53:34 2022 No.20097672
File: 10 KB, 273x246, thoth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>his concise dictionary isn't beautifully handwritten
>his concise dictionary doesn't contain weirdly specific terms that only appear a few times in one text
>his concise dictionary isn't just cobbled together notes from an eminent scholar
oh no no no

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:54:25 2022 No.20097675

>>20097661
>>20097666
Terrible advice. Oxford/Cambridge education material is seriously out of touch with the education concerns of ordinary people. We just have to wait for the LLPSI of Greek, though it has to use a different format, since LLPSI works differently since Latin and English are so similar, while Greek less than 5% so.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:56:11 2022 No.20097680 >>20097675 The oxford greek grammar is fine if you cant learn from it you cant learn greek >llspi Thats just terrible please go back to your containment thread

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:02:24 2022 No.20097689

>>20097666
>>20097675
>>20097680
I have a danish grammar that I've been told has a better system than the dated oxford one - It disagrees with oxford on intricacies in categorization about temporality - so I don't need a grammar: I need to know a better way to learn and retain grammar.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:04:04 2022 No.20097694 >>20097689 Ah right you're one of those people Peppa pig is in danish im sure so try that

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:04:38 2022 No.20097696 >>20097689 >I need to know a better way to learn and retain grammar. Keep reading primary texts. Bliv ved med at læse kildetekster. Keep reading primary texts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:10:53 2022 No.20097710 >>20097675 >We just have to wait for the LLPSI of Greek Check out LGPSI, but even still the Italian Athenaze is the best reader we have.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:13:41 2022 No.20097716 >>20097710 >LLPSI works differently since Latin and English are so similar, while Greek less than 5% so. Did you not read my post. LGPSI is such a step backwards it hurts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:14:50 2022 No.20097719 What are the most useful languages if I want to dive deep into christian mysticism? I guess the order should be Greek > Coptic > Latin.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:17:19 2022 No.20097726 >>20097716 It's the best you have if you are so afraid of grammar. This mythical textbook that will magically make you fluent in Greek doesn't and will not exist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:22:18 2022 No.20097733 >>20097719 >christian mysticism Pseudo-Dionysios is written in greek, and much of the desert fathers as well, plus the bible itself.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:34:30 2022 No.20097753

>>20097197
>>20097498
>>20097596
>>20097603
How do i learn ancient egyptian? My understanding is there was the seperate "heiroglyphic" script and a more normal script that wasnt used for writing in pyramids, and obviously these would have changed over the thousands of years.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:38:22 2022 No.20097758

>>20097726
I can understand the concerns of learning a new language. I've had them myself, but this urge I see on here to avoid grammar is pathetic and perplexing. People on /lit/ are supposed to be readers, and some are writers. It's true that learning a new language, at least in the traditional, non-LLPSI way, helps one's understanding of their own language. You'd think that /lit/izens would be interested in grammar. The turnover for Ranieri posters and input devotees must be incredible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:40:21 2022 No.20097760 #Question - What book on heiroglyphics show published inscriptions from and catalogues their source locations, preferably from the main locations? - How do we know how close reconstructed Egyptian pronunciation probably was?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:43:58 2022 No.20097769 >>20097758 >Ranieri Please kill yourself. Literally nobody fucking brings him up besides you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:53:04 2022 No.20097785 >>20097556 look up recessive accent

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:55:17 2022 No.20097791 >>20097661 Textbook + Smyth's Grammar Smyth's is a reference book and an excellent one For textbook I recommend Mastronarde Introduction to Attic

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 06:58:51 2022 No.20097793 >>20097689 read as much as you can. best way is through practice. If authentic texts with translations are too difficult scour every textbook you can find for sample sentences and passages. The Mega has a ton

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 07:16:53 2022 No.20097830 >>20097758 Input is the only way to actually get to a stage in which you're able to produce your target language correctly. Doesn't matter how many pages of grammar you read. You need to consume the language in context.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 07:22:38 2022 No.20097841 >>20097830 stay in the containment thread tranny

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 07:26:22 2022 No.20097847 >>20097830 go back to your thread holy fuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 07:41:03 2022 No.20097868 >>20097753 Google "ancient egyptian textbooks" lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 07:44:45 2022 No.20097876 >>20097868 lmfao this its so bizarre hearing questions like that

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 09:06:06 2022 No.20098074 I'm learning Lithuanian language. You just know

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 09:45:39 2022 No.20098187

>>20097661
People here are too beliigerent. You just need to practice a lot. Reference grammars like Smyth and Cambridge are useful but not for learning stuff about grammar initially, and they won't teach you vocabulary, which is at least equally important. I would just go for a textbook. Athenaze, JACT, Zuntz, these are all pretty good. Learn To Read Greek is OK I guess. I wouldn't use Mastronarde or H&Q alone because neither has that much Greek text in it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 09:48:36 2022 No.20098198 >>20097868 different anon, but any particular one you (or anyone else) would recommend?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 09:51:20 2022 No.20098208 >>20098198 Allen even though it's kind of autistic

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 10:28:29 2022 No.20098301 >>20097753 If you want material to study, look on /t/.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 11:10:27 2022 No.20098431 File: 89 KB, 1920x1080, 1558201141162.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Thinking of taking a Latin 101 class over the summer What am I in for? Never studied a foreign language before

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 12:05:58 2022 No.20098616

Can we talk about language education methods? I don't want Ranieri wars, but comprehensible input, vocabulary drilling, and hard grammar study, all seem highly prescribable methods to be used in combination, at least as our level of technology will allow. Vocabulary drilling is obviously still the most mind numbing of them.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 12:25:55 2022 No.20098695

>>20097753
I recommend Gardiner’s grammar, despite the fact that it is a little bit dated, but Allen’s is also good, though not very didactic. Wiktionary is also unironically helpful. There are some dictionaries you can easily find on-line, but here its is a link for one of them: https://archive.org/details/DictionaryOfMiddleEgyptian.. Strangely, learning Egyptian is like learning Japanese. If you want an Anki deck I’ve made on the ~32 uniliteral hieroglyphs, just tell me.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 12:29:30 2022 No.20098706

>>20097675
The Oxford classical grammar book is perfectly fine for referencing grammar principles. In fact, the self-learner/student should consult it frequently for support and review. I have found it an absolutely fantastic resource that summarizes the sometimes confusing lay-outs of intro text books.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 12:33:25 2022 No.20098727 >>20098706 Maybe, but they seriously need a more clear memorable and discerning format. Almost everything from Oxbridge I've used has seems to use intentionally clunky methods and refuses to fill helpful explanatory gaps on purpose.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 12:50:05 2022 No.20098791 >>20097410 Was that how they learned it? By copying it out? I've heard they'd also do what we'd recognize today as cloze-deletion tests.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:00:15 2022 No.20098831 >>20097470 How do I become a professor of classics in China

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:01:36 2022 No.20098834 >>20097197 >𓅓𓌃𓂧𓅱𓂋𓏺𓈖 𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖 That says mdw r n kmt/ⲙⲟⲩⲧⲣⲟⲛ̀ⲕⲏⲙⲓ right? (Coptic reflex might be wrong, I don't really speak Coptic.)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:03:08 2022 No.20098845 >>20097653 Lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:12:19 2022 No.20098883 >>20097680 There are plenty of intelligent people who don't know the sort of highly specialized terms in a book like that. Most Ancient Greeks spoke it fluently despite knowing nothing of them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:13:33 2022 No.20098887 >>20097675 >since Latin and English are so similar, while Greek less than 5% so Er... aren't they all three from different branches of IE? Or do you just mean English has more loans from Latin?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:16:57 2022 No.20098903 >>20097753 I have other languages I'm focusing on currently but I plan to do it like Perepelkin did- first learn Coptic, then learn to read Egyptian in Coptic reflexes. >>20097841 >>20097847 They're not wrong, though. The evidence supports them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:18:48 2022 No.20098909 >>20098431 At university they're likely to use backwards methods, I know mine does.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:22:02 2022 No.20098918 >>20098909 Could you elaborate?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:23:57 2022 No.20098924 >>20098918 They're likely to focus on grammar-translation and rote memorization of forms rather than comprehensible input despite all the evidence (which I can link if you like.)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:29:54 2022 No.20098951 >>20098924 Yeah that's be nice

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:38:22 2022 No.20098981

>>20098951
https://books.google.com/books?id=HrhkAwAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=Approaches%20and%20Methods%20in%20Language%20Teaching&hl=es&pg=PA6#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://eidolon.pub/teaching-latin-to-humans-4e6b489b4e17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_EQDtpYSNM
https://www.sk.com.br/sk-krash.html
http://blogicarian.blogspot.com/2019/03/argumentum-ad-ignorantiam.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWOjBulEyrs
https://magisterp.com/2018/07/02/studies-showing-the-ineffectiveness-grammar-instruction/
https://books.google.com/books?id=_udVA--sg4kC&lpg=PA251&dq=grammar-translation%20latin&pg=PA250#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://doi.org/10.1017/S2058631020000513

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 13:55:10 2022 No.20099042 >>20098431 Please go to LLL, linked in the OP.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 14:06:19 2022 No.20099088 >>20098909 >>20098924 shoo shoo Esperanto tranny You shit up the Latin thread and now shit up this one as well. For the record this troon knows neither Latin nor Greek yet will tell you all about how to learn them and how what you are doing is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 14:12:44 2022 No.20099120 Some Classical Chinese discussion at >>>/his/13034109

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 15:04:38 2022 No.20099336 >>20099088 Calling me names does not suspend the scientific facts about human brains.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 15:09:14 2022 No.20099352 >>20099088 Where'd he talk about Esperanto? I don't follow these threads. Also hi, what languages are you studying?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 15:09:16 2022 No.20099353 what's some nice easy medieval latin

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 15:11:06 2022 No.20099360 >>20099352 It's true- I do speak Esperanto. But that has nothing to do with whether I'm right or wrong.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:30:24 2022 No.20099789

#Questions

- What language education method overview books give the best information?

- What book on hieroglyphics show published inscriptions from and references their source locations, preferably from the major Egyptian monuments and locations?

- How do we know how close reconstructed Egyptian pronunciation probably was?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:33:25 2022 No.20099801 >>20099336 >>20099360 why not learn latin and greek if you are so adamant on frequenting these threads? do you just get off on everyone hating you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:41:34 2022 No.20099843 >>20099801 Eas linguas disco, sed mihi adhuc tamen sunt multa discenda.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:45:05 2022 No.20099859

Akkadichads, is Akkadian worth learning for some who knows Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic? I love the Epic of Gilgamesh, and I know that I will never be able to learn Akkadian in a classroom. I'm trying to be an independent scholar, but from what I understand, Assyriology is very oversaturated, and there are already tons of people like me in the field. Is there any benefit in me learning it for scholarly purposes, not just enjoyment? How linguistically helpful will it be for me? I'm looking at Ge'ez, Syriac, Old English, and Coptic in the near future, based on what's available to me and what I'm interested in, but I hope to learn Akkadian in 20 years.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:51:05 2022 No.20099890
File: 3.08 MB, 1596x1417, 1597038116115.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Ok language nerds.
This is supposedly the body and letters recovered from Apollo 20s mission near the big stone ship.
Just humour me and pretend it's real.

What language does the letters in pic related look like?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:53:18 2022 No.20099898 File: 22 KB, 453x312, 8e54a41665b8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20099890 Apologies the quality is terrible

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 16:58:31 2022 No.20099915
File: 117 KB, 600x683, 1647896309444.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20099890
It's impossible to discern because it's so blurry, but it looks like cuneiform or Syriac to me, but then again, it looks more scribbly than those scribble languages. It's obviously written with ink, but it has similar qualities to the script you see on clay tablets.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 17:03:16 2022 No.20099935 >>20099859 Try asking in the cuneiform thread on /his/ but it's almost reached the bump limit.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 17:57:42 2022 No.20100146

getting a bit confused/overwhelmed by indirect speech/optative, etc..., usually I try to self correct my own exercised but can any Hellasbro give a green light on this?(Athenaze chapter 25 exercise f)
I'm interest mostly on whether I'm using optative/infinitives correctly with the (past/historic) verbs, not so much precise translation
>Ὁ Κροῖσος ᾤετο αὐτὸς εἶναι ὀλβιώτερος ἀνθρώπων, ἀλλ' ὁ Σόλων εἶπε ὅτι ἄλλους ὀλβιωτέρους ἴδοι. Ἤρετο οὖν τὸν Σόλωνα διὰ τί κρίνοι ἄλλους ὀλβιωτέρους. Ὁ δὲ Σόλων ἀπεκρίνατο οὐδένα νομίζειν ὄλβιον πρὶν μάθοι καλῶς τελευτῆσαι τὸν βίον. Ὠργίσθη δὲ ὁ Κροῖσος Σόλωνι καὶ ἀπέπεμψεν αὐτόν, νομίσᾱς αὐτὸν ἀμαθῆ. Μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα πόλλα ἔπαθε κακὰ ὁ Κροῖσος καὶ ἔμαθε ὅτι ὁ Σόλων εὖ κρίνοι.
Original(translated from Italian):
>Croesus considered himself the happiest of men, but Solon said that he saw happier ones. He asked then Solon why did he judge others were happier. Solon then answered that he didn't judge anyone happy/blessed until he learned they experienced a good death. Croesus got angry at Solon and sent him away, considering him a fool. After these (events) Croesus suffered many bad things and realized Solon had spoken/judged correctly.

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 18:04:04 2022 No.20100167

>>20097206
Inconceivably based. Only language that will go to the stars. Pretty wild to think about planets at this moment beyond our humble ken that will be speaking a version of English in 12,000 years. But that just goes to show the flow of the Anglo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 18:06:39 2022 No.20100179 >>20100167 OK chud.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 18:57:24 2022 No.20100432 >>20099898 theres no way of telling what that is

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 19:00:39 2022 No.20100451 >be indo-euros >gang bang our way across europe to india >have bastard children languages all along the way based

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 19:12:07 2022 No.20100517 >>20100451 >our

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 19:12:22 2022 No.20100520 >>20100167 But modern English is not organic. It was intentionally influenced to take stuff from Latin and Greek.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 19:18:14 2022 No.20100545 File: 94 KB, 498x468, chudjak-poljak.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >NOOOOO YOU CAN'T HECKIN POINT OUT ENGLISH IS A MUTT LANGUAGE OR THAT CHUDS VICARIOUSLY LIVE THROUGH ANCESTORS WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN DISGUSTED WITH THEM

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 19:23:46 2022 No.20100569 >it's another episode of an irrelevant ESL shitting up the thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 21:11:39 2022 No.20100983 >>20100517 Yea, "our" makes sense because green text is used for quotations. Anon started it out with "be indo-euros"

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 21:37:42 2022 No.20101104 File: 28 KB, 661x323, 86525738d45d3f6106317237b8ccbff2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20100451 Which child was the prettiest? which one the smartest?

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 21:38:08 2022 No.20101108

>>20097841
>>20097847
Hello midiwts. How many languages can you speak?
Pretty sure I'm more qualified to speak about language learning as I've learned both dead languages and modern, living languages to varying degrees.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a Grammar textbook alongside comprehensible input. I'm not a proponent for completely avoiding Grammar, but you shouldn't be spending majority of your time drilling conjugations and declinations, complete waste of time. And that's coming from someone who's spent probably 500 hours or more with my face glued to a Grammar textbook.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 21:41:00 2022 No.20101123 >>20101108 Damn looks like I'll never learn Akkadian. It lacks CI :(

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 21:44:42 2022 No.20101143 >>20101123 No, you won't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 21:49:47 2022 No.20101168 >>20101143 I should ask my Akkadian professor how he learned it

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 01:00:50 2022 No.20101894
File: 602 KB, 1280x1731, 2553 - a9d59823ccc4ea87ec07ad78cabf9d95.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

> TUTEMET carnem canis edito
> TUTEMET consuetudinem basiandi aquilam accipito
> TUTEMET pueros tuos cinaedam in disciplinam pediconum ascribito
> TUTEMET sedem et domicilium in insula habitato
> TUTEMET ad nostrorum deorum cultum eruditor
> TUTEMET maribus in balneas solis ito
> TUTEMET nobis vectigalia tributaque pendito
> TUTEMET maiestatem imperatorculi subito (non quidem est rex quia . . . modo non est, bene!?)
> TUTEMET auxilia capessito
> TUTEMET togam sumito
> nihil diripto
> laetus estoque

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 01:08:14 2022 No.20101907 >>20099935 I can't find it in the archive. Can you link it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 03:05:43 2022 No.20102164 >>20101104 >Oscan-Umbrian What could've been :(

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 04:08:57 2022 No.20102296 These threads are struggling to stay afloat. If lit was 10x less active, we'd be able to garrison to keep it from page 10 during our sleep cycle. If we exhaust clg without Latin, it's fine. We had a good series of threads.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 04:11:33 2022 No.20102301 >>20102296 The split was honestly a bad idea. The solution was not to ban Latin, but rather to just not engage with Bld Mn bait.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 04:17:07 2022 No.20102310

>>20102301
Let's give it a few years, and maybe the Latin learners will branch to Greek/Sanskrit/Classical Chinese, since those have the biggest catalogs to read in, and we'll have enough enthusiasts to make clg sans Latin threads work.

Guys, it will have been all right. We put in an effort, but artificially supporting these threads will exhaust good intentions.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 04:33:59 2022 No.20102343

>>20101907
hi anon, I'm the op of that bread. It has since died
>>>/his/13006431
It's not very linguistically helpful, since Akkadian is the only known eastern semitic language (its closest relative was Eblaite). You'd have to get a basic understanding of Sumerian at least, and learn all the various graphies of cuneiform in order to have access to all cuneiform texts.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 04:44:27 2022 No.20102366

>>20102310
Please no, at least not until my questions have been answered.

I was able to complete the last wave of questions, including the one in /lll/, now I have these four

#Questions

- What language education method overview books give the best information?

- What Greek textbook using Latin as its base language is recommended?

- What book on hieroglyphics show published inscriptions from and references their source locations, preferably from the major Egyptian monuments and locations?

- How do we know how close reconstructed Egyptian pronunciation probably was?

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 04:58:10 2022 No.20102392

>>20102366
Someone already answered #2 last thread for you. #1 is heavily debated. Look into the books and choose one, maybe two. #3 not sure. #4 It is impossible to know. Reconstructions of Egyptian are made using best guesses informed by Coptic, Semitic languages, and, in some cases, there are descriptions of the sounds made when pronouncing a letter(s). I don't know if the latter exists for Egyptian, but such guides appear in ancient sources for some languages.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 05:29:19 2022 No.20102454

>>20102392
1, I really just want a chapter or a few going over the major methods and their pros and cons. The least viable that I know are the G-T method which is mind numbing, and the Direct/Natural method, which only works if one is rich enough to have an expert teaching. Most of us can't work with either method.

2, I looked at a bunch, including the ones mentioned, but they're in poorly scanned and very old unreadable copies. Some people mentioned a standard medieval Greek textbook in Latin, but I haven't been able to find any.

3 is very niche. I can't find any, and it may be a while before somebody mentions a French diehard historian's work on it

I just got 4 answered. We will never know some missing vowels despite other gaps being filled, so I'm just going with MEP.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 05:52:10 2022 No.20102497

>>20102454
>1, I really just want a chapter or a few going over the major methods and their pros and cons. The least viable that I know are the G-T method which is mind numbing, and the Direct/Natural method, which only works if one is rich enough to have an expert teaching. Most of us can't work with either method.
Hilariously enough, modern textbooks rarely even cover Comprehensible Input, even though that's been around for a while. It's like language education is trying to subvert language learning.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 06:08:32 2022 No.20102525

>>20102343
I just read through it all. Very cool project. I hope to see you often in /clg/. I asked about Akkadian from a linguistic perspective because it is referenced with some frequency in Hebrew and Aramaic textbooks and dictionaries. Does shaphel sound like a familiar term to you, a causative verb type that begins with "sh"? I'm just looking for ways to justify me learning Akkadian down the road. Maybe, being an expert is unreasonable, but maybe, it can inform my other studies.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 06:17:52 2022 No.20102546

>>20102525
I personally have no knowledge of Hebrew or Aramaic, but there is a causative aspect in Akkadian, and it also uses sh/š. If in "shaphel" the sh marks the causative, I presume the root would be something like '-p-l. apālum is "to answer" in akkadian, and the causative infinitive šūpulum would be "to cause to/make answer".
How close?

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 06:51:22 2022 No.20102607

>>20102546
Yeah, that's it. Hebrew and Aramaic verb types are named based on what is added to them (prefix and vowels). For instance, haphel, the non-Akkadian Aramaic causative, is distinguished by its ה (h) prefix, "a" first vowel, and "e" second vowel. The only difference between the haphel and the shaphel is ש (sh) vs ה. There is no difference in meaning.
How many verb types are there in Akkadian, i.e. simple, intensive, causative? Akkadian must be really hard. If you had any interest in Hebrew, you could learn it easily, and from there, learning Aramaic would take you a day or two before you could read Daniel. Semitic languages are so much fun yet learning them is so discouraged by plebs.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 07:00:28 2022 No.20102628

>>20102454
>1, I really just want a chapter or a few going over the major methods and their pros and cons. The least viable that I know are the G-T method which is mind numbing, and the Direct/Natural method, which only works if one is rich enough to have an expert teaching. Most of us can't work with either method.
Don't know nothin bout no chapters splainin thangs. It seems to me that your big issue with self-study is that it doesn't work for you, like most people. Unfortunately, you're just stuck. You've just got to keep bashing your head against the wall if you want to learn the language. Simply put, just learn to code. Sorry.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 07:04:47 2022 No.20102639

>>20102607
There are 4 main themae in akkadian, numbered I-IV or marked G/D/Š/N after their German names and characteristic features.
I or G is the basic verb meaning, infinitive "parāsum"
II or D(oppelstamm) has a reduplicated second radical, infinitive "purrusum". Its meanings vary, but it's used as a causative aspect for state verbs.
III or Š is the causative, and IV/N is the passive, with the infinitive "naprusum".
Added to these are the iterative and reciprocal aspects marked by -tan- and -ta- infixes respectively, and an R thema in northern dialects I haven't been able to work out yet. So "šutaprusum" would mean "to divide each other/among themselves".
Towards the end of my second year I kinda realised akkadian is a very difficult language. I've never felt it personally, because it's fascinated me from the start and I threw myself at it with a vigour I hadn't even reserved for Tolkien's elvish. I might take a look at Aramaic soon, actually, since it would be very useful, and I've started to appreciate semitic languages more

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 07:28:44 2022 No.20102667 That reminds me, I think clg will be more sustainable if we allow limited modern language and conlang discussion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 07:42:29 2022 No.20102690 >>20102639 I am the dumb "to cause* to divide among themselves/each other"

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 08:12:31 2022 No.20102766 >>20102667 >limited modern language and conlang discussion No, one Esperanto tranny is already too much

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 08:16:50 2022 No.20102780

>>20102766
If anything we need more Esperantists. A lot of inaccessible works in dozens of minor languages have been unified under Esperanto translation.

Modern languages have works that still are literary and classical. French has lesser covered works that use dated French language, but honestly are a good fit for this thread.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 09:38:15 2022 No.20103008 Interslavic chads where we at

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 10:18:34 2022 No.20103161 File: 720 KB, 1944x2592, Augusto_di_pirma_porta,_inv._2290,_02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20101894 begone, nigger slave meme-poster.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 12:51:24 2022 No.20103728 >>20103008 Also interested in Interslavic. How good is it as a lingua franca vs Russian?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 14:33:08 2022 No.20104091 File: 283 KB, 1920x450, Contendings_of_Horus_and_Seth_(CBL_Pap_1.2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] For me it's the mythological tale where Horus' cum answers from inside the stomach of Seth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 14:35:40 2022 No.20104108 >>20102780 esperanto is literally nothing but latin roots what utter garbage i'd rather speak mexican

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:03:59 2022 No.20104237
File: 181 KB, 1187x768, EzNTOXhVUAkofdZ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Good evening.
I've just came about a lot of spare time recently and it should last for at least two years. I've always wanted to learn Greek and Latin and I suppose I'd rather start with Greek.

My questions are: For me to read and enjoy the epics, the lyric poets, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, the tragedians, the philosophers and anything else I want until the end of the Hellenistic age, how many different "Greek languages" would I have to learn?
Also: is two years of reasonable diligence - a few hours everyday - enough for me to get to a point where I can read a normal text with a good rhythm?

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:08:46 2022 No.20104262
File: 2.78 MB, 406x720, 1647968140367.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I know this thread isn’t about Latin, but, since I’m not a Ranierifag, I feel free to post here. I will start to handwrite every fucking word of LLPSI in a notebook. What do you think, chad/clg/bros? In fact I already know the three first declensions and some conjugations, but I feel like I am lost right now.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:19:29 2022 No.20104298

>>20104237
>two years of reasonable diligence - a few hours everyday - enough
Yes, most likely
>how many different "Greek languages" would I have to learn?
One. There are a few dialects but they aren't difficult once you understand the basics of the language and each dialect's quirks. Most learners begin with Attic then branch out into others. My first reading was Herodotus which is Ionic and it took all of a week or two to get the dialect down.

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:27:13 2022 No.20104329

>>20103728
I've been using it to post on the ex-yugo general on /int/. It works great to get your point across, but understanding the other language still requires some legwork. Basically they knew everything I was saying, while I had to use google translate to understand them.
Tried it on a russian once and his only reply was "what", but I didn't explain beforehand and the post was rather short so he might've thought I was butchering ruskie

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:28:36 2022 No.20104339 Any good attic greek pronunciation guides for the alphabet on youtube? I'm a complete beginner and I don't know what to trust.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:28:56 2022 No.20104344 File: 24 KB, 440x534, 1617644783545.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20104262 >that webm

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:29:58 2022 No.20104350 >>20104262 Post in the Latin general you retard

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:31:51 2022 No.20104362

>>20104237
In 2 years, you can read Xenophon and Herodotus. It will take more time to read Thucydides. He and Aristotle are incredibly hard to read, iirc. It's perfectly fine to start with Greek first. Learning one will help with the other, and dare I say, learning Greek first is better than learning Latin first, at least when it comes to understanding grammar.
Here's what you need to know about reading YWNBATRWUAD (you will never be able to read without using a dictionary). That's just how it is. There are tons of words that are hard to remember, have unique usages and forms, and only show up once. Eventually, you'll be reading at a decent pace, and unique language things will fascinate you as if you were walking through museum. At least that's where I'm at now with Homer. Here is an excerpt that was highlighted in my homework. I just liked the simplicity of, he brought her there with her stuff and then sent her away without her stuff.
>τὴν ἐπεὶ ἂρ δεῦρ᾽ ἤγαγ᾽ ἅμ᾽ ἄλλοισι κτεάτεσσιν,
>ἂψ ὅ γε τὴν ἀπέλυσε λαβὼν ἀπερείσι᾽ ἄποινα

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:46:29 2022 No.20104438 >>20104362 >>20104298 thank you for your help

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:48:17 2022 No.20104456 >>20104339 Try to mimic this guy. He's a native Greek and his reconstructed classical pronunciation is excellent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am71Njxz0eI

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 15:49:30 2022 No.20104468 >>20100520 Hence why there is no need to learn backwards languages unless you are purposefully doing it to translate documents that haven't been translated to English yet.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 16:01:53 2022 No.20104517 >>20104350 Read the first sentence again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 16:26:05 2022 No.20104617 How should I endeavor to learn Sanskrit?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 16:31:03 2022 No.20104636 >>20104617 >low effort faggotry ngmi

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 16:40:22 2022 No.20104671 >>20104636 :(

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 16:52:03 2022 No.20104714 Be nice. Also yes where does one start with Sanskrit? Don't make me add it to my list of Questions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 18:43:30 2022 No.20105206 File: 19 KB, 524x439, 18342811_1430051137054171_6460587892953475452_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Sorry for the reddit

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 18:45:25 2022 No.20105215 >>20104714 Thank you for defending me

Anonymous Tue Mar 22 20:49:41 2022 No.20105773

#Questions

- What language education method overview books give the best information for each kind, including Comprehensible Input?

- Where can I find a list of the major Greek hapax legomenons?

- What Greek textbook using Latin as its base language is recommended?

- What book on hieroglyphics show published inscriptions from and references their source locations, preferably from the major Egyptian monuments and locations?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 23:31:50 2022 No.20106447 I've narrowed things down. >>20105773 #Question - What Greek textbook using Latin as its base language is recommended?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 22 23:56:03 2022 No.20106520 >>20097556 You just have to learn it, say it out loud with the pitch. Eventually you just remember it with enough practice

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 00:47:30 2022 No.20106688 >>20106520 Right. Comes naturally with their sentence flow. Just like how if you only know noun accents in English you eventually get almost everything else right.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 02:17:35 2022 No.20106945 >>20101104 Lmfao this list doesn't even have Celtic wtf

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 02:29:50 2022 No.20106968 >>20106447 #Question - Greek textbooks with Latin as base language: Which was the benchmark classic standard for the postclassical world? What are some other useful ones?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 02:38:25 2022 No.20106990 File: 96 KB, 568x548, 1628924521976.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20104671 Anon I think that you should pursue Sanskrit and Pali too! I have no advice though, because I know nothing about it. I wish you luck homie.

Anonymous Wed Mar 23 03:35:04 2022 No.20107134
File: 95 KB, 1101x972, gilgamess.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anons, in order to make firm my grasp of Akkadian, I am writing a fantasy memoir in cuneiform, heavily inspired by works like Anabasis, On the Gallic War, Gilgamesh and Enkidu in the Cedar Forest, and the Neo-Assyrian royal expeditions. Are there any other works I can read that have this structure? I'd like to find inspiration in indian or chinese literature too, but I don't know where to start there. Any advice in general is appreciated

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 03:36:07 2022 No.20107138 >>20107134 should be *travel memoir, just to be clear

Anonymous Wed Mar 23 06:35:20 2022 No.20107541

>>20097556
verbs are the easy ones. Except for some forms (infinitives, some participles, some imperatives) the accent goes as far back as possible according to the rules of vowel length and contraction. It's the nouns and adjectives you have to learn it for

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 06:49:48 2022 No.20107579 >>20101104 Pictish

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 06:52:36 2022 No.20107592 >>20105206 priorities

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 06:57:00 2022 No.20107605 >>20105206 Pictish for goose is gèadh and so is it in all Celtic

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 08:49:44 2022 No.20107958 >>20097672 faulkner's dictionary is so goddamn aesthetic

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 12:43:38 2022 No.20108739 #Questions I have no questions, I've cleared them all, anons.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:20:14 2022 No.20108859 >>20101123 Try to find some way to bootstrap it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:24:10 2022 No.20108881 >>20102454 Instead of using Egyptological pronunciation, you could learn Coptic first and read in Coptic reflexes. That's what Perepelkin did and he apparently read Egyptian fairly fluently.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:25:58 2022 No.20108889 >>20102780 Bazite. >>20104108 A good part of the vocabulary is Germanic and Slavic. But more to the point, a language is not just a bag of words; its grammar is pretty un-IE, being agglutinative.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:29:07 2022 No.20108902 >>20104262 Seems like a lot of toil for unclear benefit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:30:45 2022 No.20108909 >>20105206 I mean, it would work on me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:35:18 2022 No.20108929 In the old thread, the number sequence for bootstrapping Chinese characters made sense. But how would it bridge to other ideograms? CCPSI using this bootstrapping method would be one of the best things ever btw

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 13:37:38 2022 No.20108941 >>20108929 How would you learn pronunciation?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 14:21:03 2022 No.20109112 >>20098887 Yeah, English has more loans from latin. Also using the Latin script, so you're just learning 1 thing instead of 2.

Anonymous Wed Mar 23 14:34:12 2022 No.20109171

>>20108941
Very good question. How do the Chinese learn pronunciation from books? There are obviously easy illustrations and instructions for this, but for the needlessly difficult (but conceptually sufficient, as it may become required to relearn Chinese after an apocalypse, reducing technology to a medieval level) bootstrapping concept, one would have to teach mouth anatomy by Hanzi alone, and the anatomical procedures to produce sounds. After such bootstrapping in itself can be proved possible, I can be satisfied a potential loss future setting can rediscover Chinese, and I will settle for using illustrations the way LLPSI does.

It's possible to teach sound rules to and from the various Chinese scripts used to transcribe this already, including the Mongolian script from the 13th C. commissioned by Kublai Khan. These can be included with the bootstrapping concept for convenience, and because they will be necessary for translating certain artifacts.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 15:22:24 2022 No.20109368 Are there any Chinese Hellenists? I would be interested to hear how the pronounce the pitch accents.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 16:03:38 2022 No.20109546 >>20108941 its has no pronunciation

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 16:10:06 2022 No.20109568 >>20109368 >e pronounce the pitch accents. no point

Anonymous Wed Mar 23 16:34:17 2022 No.20109674

>>20109368
I've seen some around. If we bump still, they might see. I imagine Chinese Hellenists experience extreme phonetic degradation, at least those without trilingual Western educations. Most of them literally can't hear the differences between new sounds. Not that they're incapable, but extra steps need to be taken to make it clear and conscious.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 17:30:45 2022 No.20109932 >>20108929 >>20109171 >>20109674 This has been done before. Gimme a while and I'll post the book

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 18:39:15 2022 No.20110213 >>20109171 Goddamn, are you German or something? Fucking system autist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 20:29:46 2022 No.20110587 Where are the Greek posters? What's a good Bible for linguistic notes for Hebrew, Greek, etc, used?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 20:32:40 2022 No.20110599 >>20110587 Or a book of linguistic notes about the Bible

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 21:51:58 2022 No.20110904 >>20110587 What do you mean by linguistic notes? What kind of information are you aiming to learn?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:16:49 2022 No.20111000 >>20109171 >How do the Chinese learn pronunciation from books? They learn the spoken language first and then their teachers show them the characters and tell them their pronunciations orally. Nowadays that process goes by way of pinyin.

Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:18:28 2022 No.20111005

>>20109368
I was watching a Great Courses video series about Ancient Greek and the instructor mentioned that he once had a student who was a native Chinese speaker and he could pronounce the pitch accents fine.
>>20109546
What are you talking about? Of course Chinese characters have pronunciation.
>>20109568
Couldn't you say the same for any phonemic distinction you find tricky, by that logic?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:21:35 2022 No.20111022 >>20111005 What about Chinese directly into Greek

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:22:54 2022 No.20111027 >>20111022 What do you mean?

Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:27:54 2022 No.20111053

>>20111027
How do they unclutter themselves from Chinese phonology and learn Greek? Especially book only. Is Chinese precise enough to convey the sound differences?

Honest questions, not to sound condescending. It's obviously much easier to unclutter oneself from English monoglotdom into Greek, as the writing system and phonology are much more similar.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:30:26 2022 No.20111063 File: 32 KB, 480x601, Hide-the-Pain-Harold.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 𓉐𓅱 𓉐𓅓

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 22:34:55 2022 No.20111080 >>20111053 I don't know, you could probably mostly explain the sounds the letters make.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 23 23:06:16 2022 No.20111203 I'm back with my specific questions mostly no one can answer. But this one should be easier. #Question - For Hellenic anons, which commentaries/guides on Sophocles and Aeschylus do you recommend?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 01:27:03 2022 No.20111696 >>20110587 Greek posters are too busy trooning out probably.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 06:51:31 2022 No.20112724 >>20111696 Midwit cope. The real reason we rarely post is because we are actually trying to learn the language.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 10:06:38 2022 No.20113301 File: 98 KB, 599x899, FAGGOT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] uh yeah ok then

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 10:31:43 2022 No.20113400 >>20112724 This

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 12:36:37 2022 No.20113941 any sanskrit chads here?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 12:48:30 2022 No.20113993 >>20113941 theres barely any greek cucks. there were 2 sanskrit students in an old thread, but havent heard from them in a while, and they might have just given up on it. native sanskrit learners in india wouldnt want to visit this hellhole

Anonymous Thu Mar 24 14:26:33 2022 No.20114343

How many gaps exist in knowledge of Ancient Chinese pronunciation, and how accurate the current research seem when compared with what we can't know yet? What are the chances there are more research-pushing pronunciation guides hiding in a cache somewhere?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 14:52:27 2022 No.20114458 File: 58 KB, 976x850, _91408619_55df76d5-2245-41c1-8031-07a4da3f313f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I cannot differentiate between a long consonant and glottal stop followed by a consonant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 14:53:35 2022 No.20114462 >>20114458 >between Just remove it ffs. >and from a

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 15:02:30 2022 No.20114498 >>20113941 I am still here, but it is fucking hard. Sanskrit is demanding.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 15:20:02 2022 No.20114560 >>20113993 We are called GREEK CHADS, and we still exist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 15:30:19 2022 No.20114610 File: 200 KB, 245x463, dom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20114560 AYO GIBS ME DAT GREEK TWINK

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 15:35:19 2022 No.20114637 >>20114560 Now that I think of it, we should do a language survey of this thread. I created a Straw Poll. I think we should add another one in the OP of the next thread. https://www.strawpoll.me/46004428

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 15:35:56 2022 No.20114639 >>20114610 why don't you go back to your Esperanto Duolingo

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:14:58 2022 No.20115075 >>20114610 Black Ranieri please no...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:17:59 2022 No.20115092 >>20114458 You do this naturally in English What (i)n Yes you are welcome

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:19:01 2022 No.20115096 >>20114343 >many gaps exist in knowledge of Ancient Chinese pronunciation 90% Its all guesswork with less evidence than proto-indo-european

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:28:01 2022 No.20115133 >>20104517 So? There's a Latin thread. Post in it you fucking retard. I don't care if you aren't a ranieri circle jerker. God damn you're stupid.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:41:51 2022 No.20115183 >>20115133 Be nice. Why so abusive?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:44:57 2022 No.20115194 >>20115133 What was even the point of separating Latin in to a different general? Especially seeing how it sucked all the life out of /clg/. Imagine not being able to talk about Ferrari in /f1/ or virginity in /KPOP/

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 17:58:19 2022 No.20115253 >>20115194 clgs recently been 99% llpsi meta shitposting ic u havent noticed retard

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:04:34 2022 No.20115694 >>20114343 Reconstructions for Old Chinese are pretty uncertain and varied. Middle Chinese is much less so, though- a friend who's familiar with it said the different reconstructions are on par with different accents of one language.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:05:59 2022 No.20115704 >>20114639 Hey, it's me, the Esperanto girl, I've tried Duolingo and it sucks. Don't associate me with that crap.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:09:49 2022 No.20115724 I'd rather spend my time learning Hittite than esperanto, specially since i know the kind of persons (((use)))) esperanto

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:14:23 2022 No.20115744 >>20115724 Shouldn't the triple parentheses be around "persons"? But I really haven't noticed all that many Jewish people in Esperantujo, in my experience, though there are a few.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:19:39 2022 No.20115764 >>20115704 >girl kek

Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:19:42 2022 No.20115766

>>20115704
How often do you dilate? Do you always make sure to do it? Many trannies seem to resent dilation, which is funny because it's just fucking your wound with a dildo, yet they are obsessed coomers. I'm curious on your perspective, as a brave transwoman.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:20:41 2022 No.20115771 >>20115764 Yes, I am a trans woman, which is a type of woman. >>20115766 Not planning on bottom surgery.

Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:27:18 2022 No.20115798

>>20115766
A better question is why he spends so much time on a website known for "transphobia" and seems to enjoy making his condition known and arguing about things he knows he has little experience in or support for. It's like he relishes in being attacked and belittled on whatever grounds he can find, whether it's his gender confusion or his strong opinions about ancient language instruction.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:30:22 2022 No.20115811 >>20115798 Hey, I didn't bring it up, they did- though they had knowing at the time. (Also please stop misgendering me. It's not hard to have basic civility.)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:32:00 2022 No.20115815 >>20115811 Please stop policing my language. You should instead endeavor to accept that gender is socially constructed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:34:29 2022 No.20115824 >>20115815 Race is socially constructed too, doesn't mean people won't be offended if you go around calling them racial slurs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:37:46 2022 No.20115829 >>20115824 First, "he" isn't a slur, and if a transracial white man who thinks he's asian gets offended because I call him a white man that's his problem.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:45:03 2022 No.20115850 >>20115829 Misgendering is offensive just like using slurs is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:51:49 2022 No.20115868 >>20115850 The compulsion to recognize trans identities as social fact is offensive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:53:48 2022 No.20115873 >>20115868 It is not offensive to say that you shouldn't call women men or men women.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:54:59 2022 No.20115875 Do you see? Esperantists are like him, that's why you should avoid that language. >>20115744 Yes, i'm retard

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:55:36 2022 No.20115877 >>20115875 Nah, only a tiny minority of Esperantists are trans, just like anywhere.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:56:52 2022 No.20115882 >>20115873 I agree. That's why it is offensive to compel people to call you a woman.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 20:58:34 2022 No.20115887 >>20115882 But I AM a woman. That's just a fact.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:03:37 2022 No.20115905 >>20115887 That statement is offensive to my deeply held cultural beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:04:42 2022 No.20115908 >>20115905 Well too bad because it's true.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:06:42 2022 No.20115912 >>20115908 Alternatively: you're a man, and if that offends you it's too bad because it's true.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:07:36 2022 No.20115914 >>20115877 Not only trans, but also freaks, hippies alike, dellusional middle aged...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:08:50 2022 No.20115919 >>20115912 If that were true, then sure. But it's not, because I'm a woman.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:13:54 2022 No.20115942 Just when I thought it couldn't get worse than /llllllllllllllllllllllll/...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:16:17 2022 No.20115953 >>20115919 Whatever you want to believe. I'm going to continue believing you're a man and referring to you as he/him in these threads.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:18:11 2022 No.20115961 >>20115953 Okay, but you're lying and insulting me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:21:11 2022 No.20115979 >>20115961 >you're lying Not according to my beliefs. >insulting me You insult me by demanding that I call you a woman. How about we just mutually deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:22:46 2022 No.20115986 >>20115979 How about you don't fucking misgender people. Transphobia kills.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:25:23 2022 No.20115998 there's nothing mentally ill people love more than having people take them seriously ignore these americanized zombies and stop shitting up the thread

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:27:39 2022 No.20116006 >>20115986 How about you don't fucking kill yourself and don't pretend like if you do it's the fault of people who didn't entertain your delusions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:29:48 2022 No.20116013 >>20115986 >How about you don't fucking misgender people. Transphobia kills. Okay, now I know, it's a man Not going to support conlangs for now. One tranny is already annoying enough

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:32:19 2022 No.20116023 imagine taking the bait

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:32:20 2022 No.20116024 >>20116006 I won't, but some people do, and I'm not going to pretend discrimination and hatred have nothing to do with it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:34:08 2022 No.20116031 >>20116023 You're right. He clearly loves abuse and this is just going to make him come back for more.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 21:41:24 2022 No.20116062 Why'd janny delete this clg/lang thread? It's completely on topic >>20066519

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 24 23:13:14 2022 No.20116408 >>20115194 LLPSI vs. Wheelock hyperwars, February-March 2022, nevar 4get

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 00:59:15 2022 No.20116743 Are there any textbooks being developed better than Athenaze?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 01:19:47 2022 No.20116804 >>20116408 They were at least from December onward. It's amazing the split didn't happen sooner.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 01:22:32 2022 No.20116813 >>20116743 I hate Athenaze so much, it's unreal. As far as I know, there are no better textbooks. I'm just happy I won't have to learn Greek ever again.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 08:06:10 2022 No.20117843 .

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 08:10:48 2022 No.20117858 Dido amore incensa Aeneam Carthagine mansurum speravit Why isnt it "mansurum esse"?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 09:04:31 2022 No.20118035 >>20117858 mansurus is a verbal adjective in the first place it also happens that you can form an infinitive as mansurus esse, but you don't need to, in your case, it's an adjective modifying Aeneam

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 09:30:30 2022 No.20118110 >>20116813 Why do you hate it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 09:49:14 2022 No.20118147 >>20118110 Because Greek is hard but honestly anyone who learns Greek from Athenaze and has the audacity to complain is a bitch.

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 10:54:50 2022 No.20118363

>>20118110
>>20118147
That's not the reason why. I like Wheelock a lot. It is my ideal textbook. Athenaze's stories suck. I'd much rather read single sentences about girls giving roses to sailors. The sentences in Athenaze help less than the ones in Wheelock. Athenaze's lessons are not done as well as Wheelock's. The format of the Athenaze is poor too. Basically, everything about Athenaze sucks compared to Wheelock. I've learned two other dead languages, and I've had no problems with the textbooks I used to learn them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 10:56:48 2022 No.20118375 >>20118147 >worse Is it that much harder than Latin? Morphology seems to be more complex (augments, sound changes, weird verb conjugation) but I've also read that it's easier to read than Latin (article, order more standardized)

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 11:09:28 2022 No.20118439 myself I love Athenaze, maybe it's because it's the often praised Italian version and I already have a good command of Latin, but the learning experience has been rather smooth and enjoyable, taking my time with it

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 11:14:15 2022 No.20118465

Italian Athenaze is super conveniently formatted. It's like learning to type with a keyboard than a typewriter. I pity Angloids who can't take the Latin-Italian-Greek route

What are the Oxbridge Greek courses like? How come no one ever recommends them?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 11:34:19 2022 No.20118565 Are English and Italian basically the same text and readings, but Italian has more supplemtnary material? Or are they very different texts?

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 17:45:18 2022 No.20120170
File: 23 KB, 132x168, 6ec.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20118375
I don't know Latin, but Greek grammar is tough but fair. By that I mean, there is a huge hump of rote memorization necessary to get over before reading with a dictionary is possible. Once the main verb forms and noun declensions are mastered it takes a huge mental load off everything. Many of the irregular forms are also trivially explained if you know some phonology and are aware of sound changes or what consonants tend to drop out where.

The hardest part about Greek is the vocabulary. They have multiple weird one off words for everything, or wordsmith compounds that have weird meanings. Poetry is especially bad for this, it's pretty much a whole new language you need to learn with all the poetic words that gets dug up

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 17:49:36 2022 No.20120185

>>20118565
Two main differences btw UK and Italian version
1) The Italian's reading section is far more expanded than the UK one (10 pages of Greek text vs 2 pages)
2) The Italian uses pictures and Greek synonyms/explanations for new vocab whereas the UK one just uses English glosses

Other than using a different language for grammar explanations and cultural stuff, they have the same structure, i.e. each chapter lines up w/ whatever grammar is being taught, so you can use the UK one for grammar explanations and the Italian one for more INPOOT

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 18:04:00 2022 No.20120241

>>20104362
>YWNBATRWUAD
>>20120170
>before reading with a dictionary is possible.

Okay, fans of learning dead languages, please explain this to me. Every normal person knows that the knowledge of a language consists of 4 main elements: listening (comprehension), speaking, writing and reading.
Now, you claim that you willingly do not want to learn anything for the first 3 out of 4 skills and only learn to read. So then you spend years "learning" the language and end up reading. WITH A DICTIONARY. And potentially with a grammar book.
What exactly have you learned then???

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 18:08:31 2022 No.20120264 >>20120241 >what exactly have you learned As much as I can.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 18:11:01 2022 No.20120281 >>20120241 How to read with a dictionary you dipshit. If you think somebody with no education can read with a dictionary, just try it, sir.

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 19:07:31 2022 No.20120543

>>20120241
Yeah I get what you're saying. It is a bit disheartening desu that I'll never be conversant in ancient Greek but I always have hope my Modern Greek will get there :)

I way underestimated how hard learning ancient Greek was when I started, but when I started to be able to read long passages of Plato and understand at a surface level what was being talked about it made it all worth it. Its also very useful if you want to go down the PIE hole and do comparitive linguistic autism for grammar and phonology

At the end of the day I don't think you'll understand Plato or the NT any better by reading them in Greek unless you're really good vs a translation by someone who lives and breathes every day.

The next language I'm going to learn is Russian and I am going to do it in a classroom and with a native speaker tutor if that tells you anything.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 19:51:14 2022 No.20120736 @everyone You will never be Egyptian/Greek/whatever

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 19:56:14 2022 No.20120759
File: 241 KB, 326x376, Screenshot 2022-03-26 at 01-55-40 luke ranieri – Google-haku.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

tired of this esl fella using #'s and @'s and trying to provoke discussion on his dying thread. banning ranieriposting was a mistake

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 20:07:07 2022 No.20120811

>>20120241
I mean, personally I'd like to be conversant in those languages, partly because I think it enables better reading comprehension to actually have a grasp of the spoken language. But I can understand why someone would want to focus mainly on writing since there aren't any native speakers around to communicate with anymore.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 20:26:06 2022 No.20120897 >>20120241 That's why I use the input method by Ranieri

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 21:02:14 2022 No.20121076 Just bought the Wheelock Latin. Did I gimp myself too early or will this get me started well?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 21:21:41 2022 No.20121174 >>20118363 Which other books and languages? >>20118465 Do you have to be really advanced in Italian to read it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 22:07:39 2022 No.20121345 >>20120759 That's not what I was doing retard. The #s were me trying to funnel as much value possible without contributing. I don't give a shit about the thread, faggot. The other @s aren't me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 22:23:31 2022 No.20121405 >>20121345 yeah i can recognize all your posts from >retard >faggot >dipshit >I don't give a shit about the thread, faggot then leave

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 25 22:37:15 2022 No.20121455 >>20121405 ITT the only one of those I posted most of is "faggot". I never posted "dipshit". >like dude stylometry is an accurate science! >then leave lmao

Anonymous Fri Mar 25 23:27:07 2022 No.20121656

>>20120759
You didn't read the thread, look for the greentext from below. I consider the split a good experiment, but if there's not enough of a population, it doesn't have to exist.
>Guys, it will have been all right. We put in an effort, but artificially supporting these threads will exhaust good intentions.
After I posted that, I think well meaning anons bumped the thread from page 10 at least 3 times regardless. Some conversation was had since my above greentext, but it's basic stuff which has been covered in previous /clg/s. We will see how things turn out for /clg/.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 00:26:09 2022 No.20121906 >>20121174 >Do you have to be really advanced in Italian to read it? Greek authors are quoted using Italian in some parts, so I'd say have at least a middle school level of Italian with a dictionary to make things convenient.

Anonymous Sat Mar 26 01:48:14 2022 No.20122179

>>20120759
>>20121345
>>20121405
I'm #Questions anon. The anon who replied to you isn't me. What is an @? I haven't visited /lll/ so if someone is using @Question or something, it isn't me. I'm not OP, and saving the thread from dying wasn't my intent, but I have bumped it for /clg/ anons because it's one of the only good generals on this board.

Anonymous Sat Mar 26 02:35:04 2022 No.20122305

>>20122179
>it's one of the only good generals on this board.
Hear, hear. If only we could get some discussion on literature instead of just language learning stuff. Regular users of this thread should be redirecting classics posters of /lit/ to post here. We should also try to attract anons who know other classical languages to come and comment. Furthermore, I think discussion related to degrees and jobs would be helpful.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 02:59:54 2022 No.20122354 I think it's funny non-Ranieri-tard Latin posters bumped the thread as goodwill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 03:10:18 2022 No.20122377 >>20121076 I found that it was helpful to do like 1/3 of Wheelock before jumping into LLPSI and I ran through the Orberg chapters a lot easier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 10:34:13 2022 No.20123407 >>20121906 So like C1?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 11:51:33 2022 No.20123717 >>20123407 Yes. So basically 2 years of Latin, then 2 years of Italian, then you can do Athenaze and Greek for 2 years.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 11:54:32 2022 No.20123727 So Erotemata is almost entirely in Greek. What Greek textbook like it has actual Latin instructions?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 11:54:40 2022 No.20123728 >>20123717 Imagine being an anglo

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 12:21:52 2022 No.20123838 >>20123717 Don't forget: 20 years of learning the medieval, early modern, and modern Italian dialects before getting to modern standard Italian.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 16:06:48 2022 No.20124700 File: 18 KB, 344x342, 1646184687351.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw Greek perfect just when I though I was out of the steep initial learning curve....they pull me back in

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 16:15:15 2022 No.20124735 >>20124700 you'll get it down in no time, don't worry

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 16:30:19 2022 No.20124806 What's the most cool latin word you know? Something like BAMBOOZLE in English, which SOUNDS.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 16:53:45 2022 No.20124892 File: 42 KB, 713x528, 918.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20123728 Imagine being a wog.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 17:08:46 2022 No.20124947 How should i name my classical literature and history blog?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 17:30:40 2022 No.20125061 >>20124947 Kalelegmena

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 17:51:15 2022 No.20125176 >>20124700 Just wait til you get to participles

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 17:52:11 2022 No.20125185 >>20125176 Pariticples have a total of 11 rules

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 18:00:24 2022 No.20125231 >>20125061 Too much characters. What about 'scriptura'? But it's probably too banal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 18:04:21 2022 No.20125250 >>20125185 yeah but the syntax is retarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 26 22:11:18 2022 No.20126331 >>20123838 wut that's a thing?

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