[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 1.90 MB, 1352x2058, 1031390660-oswald-spengler-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20093177 No.20093177 [Reply] [Original]

What are some good books that explore the theme of Western decline and the rise of Russia? I'm familiar with Spengler's remarks on the Russian soul, but I find that his understanding of the particulars was rather inadequate and his arguments were silly. So are there any other writers who discuss this in greater detail? (no memes like Dugin, please)

>> No.20093181

>>20093177
Dugin isn't meme

Read him or at least listen to him on YouTube

>> No.20093184

>>20093181
>Eurasianism
Yeah, just no.

>> No.20093297

>>20093184
Are you Russian? If you are not then it doesn't concern you. He just wants Russian empire to be Eurasian. Dugin has many other good takes

>> No.20093337

>>20093297
>Are you Russian?
Yes.
>He just wants Russian empire to be Eurasian. Dugin has many other good takes
I don't know, he just seems a bit too out there for my taste. He reminds of all those Slavonic Neo-Pagan groups.

>> No.20093570

>Western decline and the rise of Russia
>no memes [...], please
lol

>> No.20093757

>>20093570
/thread

>> No.20093837

>>20093177
Everyone reads "decline" wrong. It's not decline in the sense of a moral collapse but the "Fulfillment of Form", ie a organism aging and dying at the end of life span. "Decline Of The West" should really be more translated as "Fulfillment Of The West".

Read Gothe before Spengler for the fucking love of god.

>> No.20093841

Sex gifs

>> No.20093845

>>20093837
I've read Goethe but I don't see what a diary of a permavirgin who commits suicide has to do with "fulfillment of form".

>> No.20093854

>>20093845
Spengler based his whole thesis on Gothe's science of "Artforms in Nature"

>> No.20093863

>>20093837
Then why doesn't he just say that instead of using a word with a commonly accepted meaning and then completely redefining it? They are not reading 'decline' wrong; He wrote 'decline' wrong.

>> No.20093873

>>20093837
What books should I read from Goethe before reading Spengler?

>> No.20093884

>>20093854
>Gothe's science of "Artforms in Nature"
huh, I can't find a trace of that online, neither with these keywords in English or in German (Kunstformen im Natur?)

>> No.20093888

>>20093884
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goethean_science

>> No.20093893

I had the title wrong lol

>> No.20093898

>>20093863
>Your iq must be this high to post on this board
>You

>> No.20093914

>>20093893
>>20093888
tell me honestly, did you truly read Goethe's work on natural philosophy (and proceed to forget its title), or was it just some secondary literature about Spengler?

>> No.20093919

>>20093914
Umm sweetie Spengler makes frequent reference to Gothe's scientific methodology throughout Decline.

>> No.20093925

>>20093919
lmao, look at the backpedalling

>> No.20093927

>>20093898
Nice arguments.

>> No.20093933

>>20093177
>russia
russia is declining too, look further east

>> No.20094017

>>20093845
Spengler posits that the destinies of men are guided by Kulturen which are basically higher-dimensional mind-funguses that live in your brain. They determine how you conceive of spacetime. If you don't have one, you're basically an NPC and are unable to have any meaningful relationship with spacetime. A Kulturen enters the world, and finds some suitable host population. It then experiences a life-development, moving through stages. At the end, it fulfills it's life-development, and "ossifies". Once ossification is complete, men host to that Kulturen are incapable of creating anything new, they just recycle the existing forms and structures. These forms and structures are perfected, however, so it's not so much a stagnation as it is a completion. This is not cyclic history as these mind-funguses don't die and reproduce, they are totally disconnected from each other. They can totally "kill" each other by swallowing up each other's hosts, however.

>>20093863
Spengler originally wanted to name the book something like "An analysis of the historical development of cultures and the morphology of civilizations in light of advances in geology", but the publishers thought that was shit. The name of the book in German is "Der Untergang des Abendlandes" which is literally "the undergoing of the evelands". "Undergoing" here means a decrease in height, a decline in the sense of "going down a hill", as the West leaves the peak of its Kulturen and begins the process towards ossification. "Untergang" had no connotations of "a decrease in wealth, living standards, power, etc" at the time, so this was more easily understood.

Spengler had no hand in the English translation, the word "decline" is, as you point out, a bad translation.

>> No.20094481

>>20093845
>>20093873
He doesn't really have anything specific like a philosophical treatise. He wasn't a philosopher. What influenced Spengler was Goethe's personality that shone through his poetry. Take his poem "Found" for example. It's about Goethe finding a flower in the forest, plucking it and bringing it home to his garden to nurture and care for it. Obviously, he's not simply talking about a flower, he's talking about being the positive force that brings out the best in other people. A pretty classic example of the Goethean potentiality and actuality that features in Spengler.

>> No.20094521

>>20093181
He very much is.

>> No.20094580

>>20093181
>>20093184
Due to the war, Dugin's relevance has gone from meme-tier to executive of TV propaganda. His works are going to be worth reading one way or another

>> No.20094639 [DELETED] 

>>20093177
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/English/ebe.htm

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eurasianism

>> No.20094646

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z98moTOa7Y

http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/English/ebe.htm

>> No.20094683
File: 1.42 MB, 1242x1706, ddtygum-c296b9ac-5c3d-4646-a5a9-7bc068049644.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20094683

>>20094646
>Several researchers, such as Vadim Rossman,[3] John Klier,[4] Victor Yasmann,[5][6] Victor Schnirelmann,[7] and Mikhail Tripolsky describe Gumilyov's views as antisemitic.[8] According to these authors, Gumilyov did not extend this ethnological ecumenism to the medieval Jews, whom he regarded as a parasitic, international urban class that had dominated the Khazars and subjected the early East Slavs to the "Khazar Yoke". This last phrase he adapted from the traditional term "Tatar Yoke" for the Mongol domination of medieval Russia, a term Gumilyov rejected for he did not regard the Mongol conquest as a necessarily negative event. In particular, he asserted that the Radhanites had been instrumental in the exploitation of East Slavic people and had exerted undue influence on the sociopolitical and economic landscape of the early Middle Ages. Gumilyov maintained that the Jewish culture was by nature mercantile and existed outside and in opposition to its environment. According to this view, Jews share a specific way of thinking, and this is associated with the moral norms of Judaism. According to Gumilyov, the medieval Jews also did not bear arms themselves, but waged wars by proxies or mercenaries.[9][10][11]

>> No.20094730

>>20093570
pathetic cope

>> No.20094740

>rise of russia
If they even come out of this as one nation it’ll be as a Chinese slave state lol.

>> No.20094810

>>20094740
China does not want to enslave anyone,it does not make sense for marxist patriots to want to enslave other countries,this would be bad for their country

>> No.20094818

>>20093933
short-term economic decline != civilizational decline