/lit/ - Literature

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/clg/ - Classical Languages General Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:13:34 2022 No.20077087 [Reply] [Original]

/clg/ - Classical Languages General. Those dead, extinct, literary scholar-leaning, ancient, medieval, and pre-modern.

Specifically, Greek, Hebrew, Egyptian, Sumerian, Akkadian, Sanskrit, Pali, Avestan, Pahlavi, and Classical Chinese, as well as medieval languages. Feel free to talk about them and related tongues other than Latin here. We can also accommodate modern languages in moderation.

(((Barbari Latini))), quaeso, amabo, ad /lll/ vaditis: >>20076640
>/Containment Latinum Generale/, quod bella liberi

Questions: What do /lit/izens recommend for dictionaries and guides for such languages? What untranslated works would be worth getting into?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:15:31 2022 No.20077100 File: 176 KB, 800x450, Soomer_Banner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What's this crazy fun meme mean? Unprecedented levels of autism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:15:46 2022 No.20077101 semper ubi sub ubi

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:21:04 2022 No.20077122 Anyone heard of language stacking? I am doing this with ancient Greek and Assimil, which is written in French. I also make anki cards with French definitions/equivalents on the back

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:28:57 2022 No.20077155 >>20077087 Does anyone have a copypaste of the sumerian alphabet?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:29:31 2022 No.20077157 ša lišān akkadīti ilammadu baši?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:37:13 2022 No.20077194 Previous thread under prior format: >>20066519

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:38:14 2022 No.20077200 >>20077100 Seriously, what does this mean?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 20:57:08 2022 No.20077302 >>20077100 >friendship ziggurat evil? XX have sex feel wonderful ? ? >have sex gibberish? no idea with the last one >have sex

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 21:38:07 2022 No.20077478 >>20077087 What's there to read in Classical Chinese? Besides Tang poetry

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 23:08:07 2022 No.20077796 I saw an anon talking about learning Pali. Are there resources to even learn about it in English?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 23:28:28 2022 No.20077857 >>20077155 Uhmmm does a Gilgamesh-Enkidu fanfiction count?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 23:33:47 2022 No.20077866 File: 85 KB, 907x1360, 61htA5baKIL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is the Thebaid worth it? If so, what translations would you suggest? How does it compare to other classics?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 23:37:25 2022 No.20077880 >>20077478 Chinese Opera. Peony Pavillion has 55 scenes and can run for 22 hours.

Anonymous Wed Mar 16 23:43:10 2022 No.20077903

>>20077866
>Is the Thebaid worth it?
yes
>If so, what translations would you suggest?
in English? if so, can't help you
>How does it compare to other classics?
according to scholars, it was popular when it was published, canonized by the latter generations (which is why the medieval scribes were able to preserve it, lots of manuscripts), popular with the humanists but fell out of favor with the classicists since Statius didn't really obey Aristotelian principles in composition.
Nowadays, it is generally second or third to the Aeneid and Statius is looked upon favorably for his intricate style, flowery effects, and metal death scenes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 16 23:59:09 2022 No.20077964 >>20077880 Which Chinese Opera in particular? I'm familiar with the two most famous, Peony and Peach. Which are some of the best past that?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 01:36:05 2022 No.20078209 I have a bunch of Athenaze-related course material. This includes PowerPoints, worksheets, Word docs of Athenaze stories, a few answer keys, test and quizzes, etc. Is there any interest in this material?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 01:37:17 2022 No.20078212 >>20078209 I'd be interested in the worksheet and stories.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 01:38:36 2022 No.20078215 >>20078212 It'll be a while, but I think I'll eventually make a Mega for it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 01:56:40 2022 No.20078250 >>20077122 The term I've usually heard is 'language laddering'.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 01:57:53 2022 No.20078254 >>20077478 Ton of stuff. Philosophy and history, particularly, as well as some fiction. >>20077880 Isn't Chinese Opera mostly in (wenyan-influenced) vernacular?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:11:03 2022 No.20078277

>>20078254
The classics like Confucian classics, and neo-Confucians, and other political schools and their masters.

>>20078209
Does anyone know the particular differences between English and Italian Athenaze? I'm told the Italian version is better designed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:13:26 2022 No.20078281 >>20078277 From what I understand it's more LLPSI-like, though not completely so.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:14:28 2022 No.20078282

>>20078254
Accidentally sent too early.

The classics like Confucian and Zhou classics, and neo-Confucians, and other political schools and their masters. The Grand History, still untranslated. The 4-6 classic novels.

What are some of the other history and fiction works you mean?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:16:35 2022 No.20078291 >>20078282 Just go to ctext or kanripo and browse, honestly. You'll probably find something interesting. (Also I think the 4 classic novels are in Mandarin, albeit with significant influence/borrowings from Classical.)

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:19:06 2022 No.20078298

>>20078277
>Does anyone know the particular differences between English and Italian Athenaze?
Main differences
1) the Italian uses pictures and Greek synonyms/phrases to explain new vocab (in the beginning however they resort to Italian since the student obviously doesn't have a large vocabulary yet) whereas the UK one always uses English
2) the Italian has a lot, A LOT more Greek reading content compared to the UK one
3) the Italian makes sure to repeat new words often but the UK one seldom does

If you can't read Italian, use the English one for the grammar lessons since they match exactly chapter by chapter. Use the Italian for more INPOOT material.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:21:32 2022 No.20078303 >>20078298 I've seen an edition in Spanish (and it happens I speak Spanish but not Italian, though they have good bit of mutual intelligibility.) Is it more like the English edition or the Spanish one?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:25:42 2022 No.20078312 >>20078291 They're halfway and kind of annoying to read, due to a lack of grammar, much like classical.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:27:21 2022 No.20078317 >>20078312 What do you mean "lack of grammar", doesn't every language have a grammar?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:32:08 2022 No.20078331

>>20078303
It's based off the Italian one but it's like a weird abridged version. It only has the first five chapters from book 1 and zero grammar. Then in the middle there are exercises for each chapter. After that it's like passages from Aristotle with a Spanish translation next to it. Finally, paradigms are last.
This is based off the one on libgen. Idk if the real one is like this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:32:25 2022 No.20078332 >>20078317 In the way it was written, a lot of sentence structure is left to context, and difficult to parse now. A lot more nouns clustered together.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:36:51 2022 No.20078342 >>20078312 >>20078317 Pardon, I was referring to the four classics as far as mid levels of lack of grammar compared to modern goes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 02:58:24 2022 No.20078383 >>20077122 >>20078250 Is that when you learn another language via a 2nd/3rd language?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 03:21:50 2022 No.20078425 >>20078383 Basically, yeah.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:01:46 2022 No.20078508 >>20077157 does this mean 'can one learn akkadian?'

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:04:27 2022 No.20078517 >>20078508 "is there (someone here) who is learning akkadian?" although it shouldn't be in the construct state, since 'akkadītu' is an adjective. So >ša lišāni akkadīti ilammadu baši? I blame myself at 1 am

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:04:36 2022 No.20078519 >>20077155 >alphabet

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:12:32 2022 No.20078531 >>20078517 embarrasingly i couldn't figure that out... what form is bashu in? how does it follow from the relative marker? don't think i ever learned how to form questions

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:18:49 2022 No.20078547

>>20078531
in the stative 3rd person singular, but I'm not actually sure how to use the stative for bašû. It could just as well be ibašši, so present again.
As for questions, exactly the same as statements, just accented. In cuneiform texts, sometimes they indicate this with a lengthening of a final vowel, but that's very rare and probably confusing

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:22:38 2022 No.20078556 >>20078547 ah, i see now, thanks did you learn at university or was it a hobby? mine is pretty rusty because i've been away from it for a year almost

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:24:36 2022 No.20078561 >>20078556 Uni, third year now. but I always wanted it to be a hobby, I make my own tablets

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:34:45 2022 No.20078581 >>20077370 οὐχί, just some late night shitposting

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:36:45 2022 No.20078583 >>20078561 how about sumerian? do you learn that at a bachelor level in assyriology?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:37:59 2022 No.20078585 >>20078583 learning it now they fucked us over and we have 1 year of it instead of 2 though

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:48:00 2022 No.20078620 >>20078585 since you thought of it as a hobby, do you plan on doing a phd or not?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 04:51:57 2022 No.20078631 >>20078620 absolutely not, writing dissertations is a chore I'm not willing to sit through

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:05:33 2022 No.20078658 >>20078631 i've seen several people on /lit/ who have said that they plan on abusing their university systems to keep taking MA's in subjects that interest them if only one could be supplied with state-succour forever like that

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:33:34 2022 No.20078697 >>20078658 my uni system is pure torture and I want nothing to do with it, I'm learning what I can and getting the fuck out

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:36:23 2022 No.20078702 >>20078658 In what countries is that possible? In Northern Europe I presume where private universities do not exist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:38:08 2022 No.20078705 >>20078702 yeah, that option is pretty much limited to scandinavia but as >>20078697 implied academia isn't really worth it on the higher levels, it's better to absorb information while staying at an arm's length

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:40:35 2022 No.20078712
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>>20078705
I can reach the same levels of initiation by reading publications on the topics, I don't need to fight my way into the hermetic phd circlejerk. I just wanna shitpost on clay, man

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:46:52 2022 No.20078729
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>>20078712
𒌓 𒊑 𒀀 𒌓 𒋢 𒊏 𒊑 𒀀
𒄀 𒊑 𒀀 𒄀 𒁀 𒊏 𒊑 𒀀
𒈬 𒊑 𒀀 𒈬 𒋢 𒊏 𒊑 𒀀
𒌓 𒌌 𒊩𒌨 𒁺 𒂊 𒉺 𒀉 𒀀 𒁀
𒌓 𒌌 𒊩𒌨 𒁺 𒂊 𒈪 𒍣 𒂁 𒂵 𒀀 𒁀
𒌍 𒌦 𒈠 𒅗 𒃻 𒋗 𒀀 𒁀
𒅎 𒋗 𒆸 𒈾 𒌦 𒈠 𒅗 𒊩𒌨 𒋰 𒀝 𒀀 𒁀
𒀭 𒆠 𒋫 𒁀 𒁕 𒁀 𒊏 𒀀 𒁀
𒆠 𒀭 𒋫 𒁀 𒁕 𒋩 𒊏 𒀀 𒁀
𒈬 𒉆 𒇻 𒌋 𒇻 𒁀 𒀭 𒃻 𒊏 𒀀 𒁀

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:49:57 2022 No.20078738 File: 664 KB, 1348x1079, UD REAAAAAA.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20078729 he's also made a great adaptation of the lament for enkidu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd7qeP3R5vw

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 05:52:45 2022 No.20078746 File: 246 KB, 800x991, Sumerian_princess_of_the_time_of_Gudea_2150_BCE._Louvre_Museum_AO_295.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >actual assyriology students ITT holy shit, i'm not the only one?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:03:37 2022 No.20078767 File: 17 KB, 319x340, eyedol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20078746 finally, I've been lurking here for weeks, where've you been hiding what part of ANE history are you most interested in anon?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:08:13 2022 No.20078778

>>20078767
for me it's Lagash II to Old Babylonian, so specifically interested in Sumerian texts (mostly literature since that's what is most well preserved)
wrote my bachelor's thesis on the Sumerian Debate Poems
what about you? are you the akkadianon on /his/ with the comfy thread?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:10:13 2022 No.20078783 assyriology >so you studied how to read a language that has been dead for 3000 years? >Well call you back if we accept you >bins your application

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:12:54 2022 No.20078787

>>20078778
Yup, that's me. My archive grows ever larger
For me it's OB and some Kassites, though I don't frown on everything Assyria and Elam. Isin-Larsa period if we're talking Sumer, but I'm mostly invested in mastering the language rather than the history. How long have you been studying anon?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:16:28 2022 No.20078794 >>20078783 assyriologists were made for NEETdom

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:21:39 2022 No.20078806

>>20078787
>OB and Isin-Larsa
nice, not too knowledgeable on kassites though, although i know that they have some funky Sumerian texts
>How long have you been studying anon?
last semester of my bachelor, so 2½ years
taking some Middle Egyptian for fun now, since i'll have to wait with more Akkadian and Sumerian for next semester
how about Ugaritic? are there courses in that available where you are at? i've been wanting to study it but there are no scholars of it at my institution

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 06:55:14 2022 No.20078878
File: 706 KB, 1345x1600, Plötz-Carl-after-Christian-Gottlieb-Kratzenstein-Stub-Cabinet-miniature-of-Ossia-and-the-Son-of-Alphin-Listening-to-the-Spirit-of-Malvin-c1816-gouache-on-ivory-Nationalmuseum-Stockholm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Thàinig sinn gu talla an rìgh,
'Bha 'g éirigh 'an sith nan càrn;
Air an taobh bha ciar shruth nam frìth,
Seana chombara siubhail nan alld,
Daragan leathann fo choinnich mu'n cuairt
'Us na bethe a' gluasad fo ghaoith.
Leth-cheilte 'an coille nan cruach
Roscranna 'thog luaidh nan laoch.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:01:51 2022 No.20078892

>>20078806
There's an Ugaritic coursebook pdf, but you need to know hebrew, and that's on the next level of my course. Link here if you're interested though
https://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/Mega%20linguistics%20pack/Cuneiform/Ugaritic%20Language%2C%20A%20Grammar%20of%20the%20%28Sivan%29.pdf
Nobody here teaches it though. What's Egyptian like? Been wondering if I should give it a go, doing a mayan glyph course atm

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:24:21 2022 No.20078931

>>20078892
>What's Egyptian like?
very interesting, since it represents the only written tradition parallel to the mesopotamian one in almost all of the bronze age
>doing a mayan glyph course atm
damn, i've actually been thinking about that as well! is there much of anything to read beyond ceramic vessels, royal inscriptions and astronomical tables?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:25:54 2022 No.20078934 >>20078931 >uch of anything to read beyond ceramic vessels, royal inscriptions and astronomical tables? thats the same with every bronze age language

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:27:19 2022 No.20078940 >>20078934 except the (very) substantial corpus of actual literature in sumerian, akkadian, egyptian and ugaritic

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:28:15 2022 No.20078942

>>20078931
Not much to be honest, and the writing system has no way of marking final consonants reliably, so you get stuff like ka-bi for "kab". I don't really like the way it works, but I adore the look and feel, so I'm learning about it to merge it with cuneiform. If I take old sumerian pictographic signs and draw them real pretty and round in glyph blocks it looks amazing

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:31:00 2022 No.20078951

>>20078942
that sounds like a really cool project, for aesthetic reasons if nothing else. please post some of your creations on /his/ or /lit/ when that time comes!
>I adore the look and feel
yeah, they feel like they would prove the almost total lack of contact between mesoamerica and the old world only by their strange appearance

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:32:45 2022 No.20078954 >>20077087 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bu4PVbzDlg Thread theme

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:36:04 2022 No.20078960 >>20078940 >sumerian, akkadian, ugaritic So little in it that Medieval Irish has had more written in it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:37:25 2022 No.20078962 File: 55 KB, 1280x720, UD REA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF5cnu4JpN4 thread theme

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:38:46 2022 No.20078967

>>20078960
>So little in it that Medieval Irish has had more written in it.
oh, really? how many preserved compositions are there?
funny that you'd exclude egyptian (before coptic), since akkadian and sumerian have far more preserved literature than that language

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:42:32 2022 No.20078976 >>20078967 >since akkadian and sumerian have far more preserved literature than that language not really

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:47:15 2022 No.20078985

>>20078976
yes? there are only a few dozen preserved middle egyptian literary texts, whereas the sumerian literary production spanning from ca. 2100BC-1700BC has over 400, going by the *selection* presented at the etcsl. and in later periods, egyptian literature appears more well preserved, but still very fragmentary compared to the much better preserved akkadian corpus
why do you disagree?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:48:19 2022 No.20078989 File: 442 KB, 1318x375, shulgi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] this could be made into a /lit/ banner of some sort...

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 07:51:54 2022 No.20079001

>>20078985
>r 400,
nearly all of them are like this and fragmentary

[v.B2'] The knight, resident of the Sealand, Simbar-šihu, son of Eriba-Sin,

[v.B3'] soldier of the dynasty of Damiq-ilišu, was slain with the sword. He ruled for seventeen years.

[v.B4'] He was buried in the palace of Sargon.

[v.B5'] Ea-mukin-zeri, the usurper, son of Hašmar, ruled for three months.

[v.B6'] He was buried in the swamp of Bit-Hašmar.

[v.B7'] Kaššu-nadin-ahhe, son of SAPpaya, ruled for three years. In the palace of [...] he was buried.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 08:04:24 2022 No.20079036 >>20079001 >nearly all of them are like this no they are not besides, that's not what 'literary text' means >fragmentary what a surprise you're trolling, apparently https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/edition2/etcslbycat.php

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 08:15:42 2022 No.20079068 >>20079036 so fake its unreal

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 08:18:17 2022 No.20079078 File: 15 KB, 389x292, alens.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20079068

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 08:27:44 2022 No.20079107 File: 331 KB, 753x707, 1631988452695.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20079068

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 09:08:09 2022 No.20079235 >>20078787 Were you the one who made the soomer memes?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 09:19:42 2022 No.20079273 >>20079235 no, they were around before I even started learning

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 09:26:41 2022 No.20079297 >>20079273 I wonder if we'll ever meet such a powerful wizard, even if it's error laden. They posted 2 months into covid, and definitely influenced the quarantined language learners.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 09:29:35 2022 No.20079307 >>20079297 wait, really? they're from 2020? in that case I was already studying, thought they were older

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 09:32:14 2022 No.20079319 >>20079297 >>20079307 Yes, 2020. March it began, May first known postings

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 09:33:44 2022 No.20079322 File: 598 KB, 680x497, soomerre.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20079319 truly a god among men

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 10:03:59 2022 No.20079469 >>20077903 Thanks anon, much appreciated >Statius is looked upon favorably for his intricate style, flowery effects, and metal death scenes That's all I need to hear

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 11:48:46 2022 No.20079871 >>20078291 >>20078282 https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalchinese/ This is a compact community for CC. More focused for beginners than going through lit's archive's CC material.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:00:05 2022 No.20079905 >>20078291 >>20079871 Goddamn. That's about 10,000 works, of up to 100,000s of works before modern Mandarin. Only dozens have been translated. Didn't realize the Chinese catalog was so huge.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:08:09 2022 No.20079930

>>20079871
>>/lit/?search_op=op&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=new&search_del=dontcare&offset=0&search_subject=chinese%20literature&ghost=yes&search_res=post&task=search2&search_capcode=all
>>/lit/?task=search2&ghost=yes&search_text=&search_subject=chinese+language&search_username=&search_tripcode=&search_email=&search_filename=&search_datefrom=&search_dateto=&search_op=op&search_del=dontcare&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=new&search_capcode=all&search_res=post

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:26:40 2022 No.20080006

>>20078951
Regarding Pre-Colombian contact, some Venetian beads were found in Alaska that are at least decades older than Colombus. Obviously, this is down the line trade, but experts believe the beads must have been made in Venice, given the carbon dating.
I imagine you're familiar with the coke mummies, and people like to point to the non-cocaine containing African relative, some extinct species, or 19th century contamination, but what do you make of the massive amounts of nicotine (fatal amounts) that are said to be in mummies? Nicotine comes from New World plants and is found in the highest concentrations in tobacco, a very New World plant.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:31:09 2022 No.20080023

The CC-Latin document in the warosu links remind me,

Latin language Chinese Mass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmYQtkTq_34

I dare you delete this thread too, janny, like jannies target delete Christianity threads, due to lib bias. Fear and seethe at the reality of God and his judgment (and repent for your own well-being, for God still loves you).

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:32:27 2022 No.20080030 >>20080023 Janny deleted the previous clg shortly after Christian stuff was posted, very sus.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:42:19 2022 No.20080074

>>20080006
>what do you make of the massive amounts of nicotine (fatal amounts) that are said to be in mummies? Nicotine comes from New World plants and is found in the highest concentrations in tobacco, a very New World plant.
yeah, the transport of those goods seems like a likely explanation
i haven't looked much into it, though

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:51:35 2022 No.20080117 >>20080074 It's probably remnants of continental drift. I don't think there was trade that far.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:58:05 2022 No.20080154 >>20080117 is the amount of nicotine found feasibly explained by that? again i know very little about it

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 12:58:52 2022 No.20080158 File: 658 KB, 1404x980, μῆμ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] οἴμοι....οὐκ αὖθις...

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:02:39 2022 No.20080173 >>20080023 theyre trying to prevent ppl from getting godpilled because then all anyone would read is the Bible and lit would be a desert

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:09:17 2022 No.20080204 >>20080158 I'm trying to translate this. Help me out here. >Dear! Wife is to be listened to every day! >Yes, mistress

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:14:55 2022 No.20080225

>>20080204
be more literal, "honey/love, it's time for the daily listening!", hopefully it's somewhat correct Greek e.g it's time to = ὥρα ἐστίν + genitive, καθ' ἡμέραν used like an attributive adjective of the noun τὸ ἀκούειν
apparently I'm not the only one sort of hypnotized by that video

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:32:00 2022 No.20080289 What is the most similar modern language to latin? Would learning any romance languages then help with learning latin? If Im an english person who has learned spanish for example, will I find latin easier?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:32:02 2022 No.20080290

>>20080154
There are no properly nicotinic plants native to Europe. There are a few that contain small concentrations but none with anywhere close to what is found in tobacco (N. tabacum and N. rustica).
According to sciencing.com:
>The tobacco plant synthesizes nicotine in its roots and then stores it in its leaves. Nicotine constitutes 0.3% to 0.5% of the tobacco plant's dry weight.
>Vegetable plants that belong to the nightshade family contain low amounts of nicotine. These plants include potatoes (Solanum tuberosum), tomatoes (Lycopersicon esculentum) and eggplant (Solanum melongena). Eggplant contains one of the highest concentrations of nicotine: 100 nanograms, or 0.1 micrograms, of nicotine per gram of eggplant.
The article goes on to mention Atropa belladona, which is found in the Old World, and does contain nicotine. It's quite possible that this plant or a similar plant was used in Egyptian embalming. The plant and similar plants are highly associated with death. But the article says that it has very little nicotine. In fact, the plant's most concentrated alkaloids are almost the absolute opposite of nicotine. Regardless, none of these plants have anywhere close to the levels of nicotine to tobacco, and it was found in fatal levels in mummies.
If any autist wants to find what levels of nicotine are found in Atropa belladona or Datura, I'd be very interested.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:34:55 2022 No.20080303

>>20080289
Sardinian they say, followed by Italian. As a native Romance speaker, it definitely helps with the lexicon at some point, especially the more learned/intellectual lexicon, once you get over those basic root words that have disappeared it's easier to understand new words when they pop up. But I don't know if I'd recommend learning a Romance language just to then learn Latin, just learn Latin unless you already have a parallel interest in a modern Romance language.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:35:10 2022 No.20080305 File: 182 KB, 226x224, 1622057219273.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] ?שלום ניגגערס - האם כל אדם מדברת עברית בזה כלבה?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 13:42:35 2022 No.20080348 ?שלום ניגגערס - האם שום אדם מדברת עברית בזו כלבה

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 14:02:01 2022 No.20080431 >>20080290 Well we know for sure Madagascar was colonized by Borneo natives 7500 km away, and the distance from Morocco to North Brazil is even less that. Sounds possible.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 14:13:50 2022 No.20080468
File: 623 KB, 1081x1556, hmmyesverywise.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Any resources for learning Classical Chinese with a base of modern Mandarin? I've given up on reading the western canon in its originals because my precious life would be better spent not learning Greek and Roman to roleplay as a 19th century academic and most people throughout history read translations anyway.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 14:24:13 2022 No.20080501 >>20080348 >Hello, niggers -... Then, I get a bit lost. I'm rusty on my Hebrew/Aramaic, but there are some confusing things here. Is האם supposed to be the mother? Is שום a 3MS pe'al/qal perfect meaning "he put/established"?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 14:26:25 2022 No.20080512 >>20077122 I got you bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38xSulBq5KI

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 14:34:56 2022 No.20080554

>>20080501
I'm a beginner, so I probably messed up some tenses or genders. האם means "does", or, one form of the interrogative particle - the mother being האמא - and שום (as far as I know) can be used to mean "any", similar to the phrase כל אדם (I could be wrong). The sentence was intended to mean "Hello niggers, does anyone speak Hebrew in this bitch?" - would appreciate any speakers to help me out.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 14:56:39 2022 No.20080634 I’ve just discovered that a Dutch Protestant translated the Bible into Old Tupi centuries ago, but his work is lost somewhere or even doesn’t exist anymore. Brazilbros… we suffer… our classical language…

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:00:26 2022 No.20080657 Tips for translating Cicero?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:12:25 2022 No.20080714 >>20080657 read more

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:24:39 2022 No.20080754

>>20080554
Ok. I am confused on the form of האמ.
2 Letter is no help. "Mother" is אמ, and with a he tacked on, it would be האמ. Apologies for the formatting; it's the computer's fault. Anyways. I'd use כל for "any" in Hebrew. I'm not familiar with שומ and 2 Letter says its means "garlic" and some other things but not "any". מדברת does not mean "to speak". The mem on the beginning is the problem there. מדבר means desert, wilderness, or mouth. Mem is a noun maker, which is why "mouth" makes sense as a meaning of the word. Also, what conjugation were you going for with the tav on the end of that word? Finally, why did you choose כלבה for bitches?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:31:28 2022 No.20080781 File: 428 KB, 660x830, si.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Goddamn it, where the fuck can I learn how to read Akkadian and Sumerian?

>>	Luke Amadeus Ranieri, Polyglot(...) Thu Mar 17 15:36:40 2022 No.20080803 >>20080468 Classical Chinese Per Se Illustrata, with all the language laddering INPOOT to make it a stimulating and memorable learning experience. Make sure to subscribe to my Youtube too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:40:58 2022 No.20080828 >>20077087 how would i go about getting a quote or passage translated into ancient sumerian? looking to write stuff down onto clay cuneiform tablets

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:46:13 2022 No.20080853 >>20080781 home.zcu.cz/~ksaskova/Sign_List.html http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/nepsd-frame.html http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/akkadian/search.php check libgen.is for A Concise Dictionary of Akkadian and archive.org for Manuelle d'Epigraphie Akkadienne

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:51:01 2022 No.20080872

>>20080781
>>20080828
>>20080853
There was a thread for Akkadian and Sumerian yesterday, just look for it in warosu.com
If you learned it, I think you could charge at least $100 for each commission, and also generate more interest in the humanities.
There's probably only a few thousand people fluent in Sumerian today.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 15:59:51 2022 No.20080906 >>20080512 Is there any Latin language textbook/guide/student reader that teaches Greek?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:09:14 2022 No.20080955

>>20080754
Well, mother is "אמא", but I'm assuming you're referencing a slang or popular form of the word, like "mom" for English "mother". The word "האם" does mean the interrogative "does/how come", inflection would probably determine what it means in context (without vowel diacritics). Google Translate agrees that שום could be used for "any", but you're right, כל probably should have been used. I'm not trying to say "to speak" (which would be לדבר, I believe), but to associate the "אדם" with the speaking (lit. person from [whom] speaks Hebrew) - I should have said "מדבר", perhaps, as the subject was "any man" singular masc. And "bitch" singular feminine is כלב with the feminine ה attached - "bitches" would be כלבות.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:12:27 2022 No.20080962 >>20078746 I'm not one, but I know a few on Discord, so they do exist apparently.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:13:52 2022 No.20080967 >>20078878 What's this from? I don't understand it, but it sounds pretty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:14:54 2022 No.20080971 >>20078931 I think it's wild how we have written vernacular coptic up until the 16th century when it apparently died out as a vernacular or nearly so. We literally have a 4,000-year written record of the evolution of Egyptian.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:17:06 2022 No.20080983 >>20080872 >There's probably only a few thousand people fluent in Sumerian today. it's much fewer most assyriologists only specialize in akkadian and only have knowledge of sumerian to serve that purpose

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:17:44 2022 No.20080985 >>20079905 There's more written in it that one person could ever read, pretty much. Though probably not all of it will be interesting to any given person.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:19:45 2022 No.20080994 >>20080023 >The CC-Latin document in the warosu links remind me, Eh? Which is that, I'm not seeing it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:21:41 2022 No.20081004 >>20080289 In my experience, knowing Spanish definitely helped, it's retained a lot of Latin's verbal morphology if almost none of the nominal. Knowing any language helps with learning a related one.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:22:56 2022 No.20081010 >>20080468 r/classicalchinese has some resources, as do Lexicity and Lexilogos (the latter mixed in with the general 'Chinese' resources.)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:24:17 2022 No.20081014 >>20080781 Look on Lexicity. I think Omniglot has some links to resources too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:27:11 2022 No.20081025 >>20080994 https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/dyqbum/literary_chinese_viewed_in_the_light_of_literary/ Sorry reddit

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:28:48 2022 No.20081034 >>20080803 I've actually started a project with some friends to make something like that, though we haven't gotten far yet. >>20081025 Ah hey, that's me that posted that link! It's a good essay.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:34:03 2022 No.20081053

>>20080225
I reached out to Zabaan about getting the reader, Silvio Zinstaag, to do the whole Iliad. He doesn't want to but Zabaan does and so do several community members. Email Zabaan and let them know that you'd support a full version. Maybe, Silvio will change his mind if he hears that there are hundreds of people who love his work, some of whom would pay.
learn@zabaan.com

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:34:42 2022 No.20081056 >>20081053 There must be a full Greek audiobook of the Iliad already, no? It's such a famous text.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:35:07 2022 No.20081059 >>20081034 Where is another hub for chatting about culture and Chinese? Is there a discord?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:36:36 2022 No.20081068 >>20080348 𐤊𐤕𐤁 𐤀𐤔𐤅𐤓𐤉? 𐤄𐤀𐤌𐤕, 𐤒𐤑𐤕 𐤒𐤓𐤉𐤍𐤂׳

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:38:40 2022 No.20081079

>>20081056
Modern Greek, maybe. Ancient? Nope. No one has done the whole thing. There are some portions done by this one guy, forget his name, and he uses the most up-to-date scholarly pronunciation, which isn't as nice as Erasmian. I am working towards being able to sing the Iliad, but I reckon I'll be good enough in 20 years.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:41:02 2022 No.20081088 >>20081059 I am actually on a Discord about East Asian classical languages. https://discord.gg/47bJFvc2Ed >>20081079 Do you mean the original text in modern pronunciation or a modern translation?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:41:03 2022 No.20081089 >>20081068 I am not going to try reading that right now, but are you calling that Phoenician or Paleo-Hebrew? That could be Punic, but again, I haven't even tried translating it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:42:12 2022 No.20081094
File: 133 KB, 1096x972, tindersoomer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20077302
ur-gin7 ki-nu2 nu-e-tuku
"Like a dog you have nowhere to sleep"

https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.6.1.05&display=Crit&charenc=gcirc&lineid=t6105.p111#t6105.p111

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:43:47 2022 No.20081101 >>20081089 I'm calling it Canaanite

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:44:02 2022 No.20081102 >>20081088 I'm not sure. I know very little about Greek scholarship on Ancient Greece. I don't even know if they have audiobooks over there. I bet they do. I just don't know. All I know is that there is no full Ancient Greek Iliad audiobook.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:48:00 2022 No.20081122

>>20081101
How did you type it? Do you have any tips on Semitic typing in general? I am concerned about Mandaic. It won't even render for me on Wikipedia. I think Ge'ez will be all right. That's just the Amharic keyboard, right? Syriac is a bitch for me right now, but if I wanted to use the CAL I could just type with the Hebrew keyboard, right?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:51:02 2022 No.20081131 File: 112 KB, 1006x990, soomerlugal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20081122 I typed it in hebrew and used this transliterator to convert https://suchaone.github.io/abjad_translit/

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 16:54:55 2022 No.20081150

>>20080955
Ok. I've got it now. Thank you. I haven't done much with Semitic languages in the past year, and I'm not very good on my feet. Good luck with Hebrew. It's a lot of fun, but believe me, Aramaic is way more fun. You'll be reading Aramaic right away, having learned Hebrew, and if you're in a class, it'll probably be smaller with more dedicated students.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:01:34 2022 No.20081179 File: 196 KB, 2121x1414, 82.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >finish new llpsi chapter >go dab in some bello gallico >see word you just learned in llpsi

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:07:36 2022 No.20081206 >>20081179 Starting to understand things in a language you're learning is a great feeling.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:20:40 2022 No.20081265 >>20080158 Αγε ευ· τοι γαρ καιρός εστι επιουσιης ακοης (ως γαρ εξερεω, το δε και τετελεσμενον εσται) Μάλιστα ανασσα

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:24:47 2022 No.20081281
File: 172 KB, 899x960, 1641267776564.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20081068
Which would be:
"?כתב אשורי
האמת קצת קרינג"
Translated:
"Assyrian writing? The truth, [is, it's] a little cringe."
Is that right?
הכתבים והספרים אשורים הם פתיון לישון - לא הספר גילגאמעשה - הוא היה אש
?האם יש לך את היכולת לכתב עתיק עברית או כנען

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:26:02 2022 No.20081286 >>20081265 𐤐𐤋𐤔𐤕𐤉! 𐤇𐤆𐤅𐤓 𐤋𐤊𐤓𐤕𐤉𐤌

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:28:33 2022 No.20081295 File: 1.83 MB, 1600x900, babylonians-btfo-heebs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20081281 >"Assyrian writing? The truth, [is, it's] a little cringe." The weak (and cultural newfags) should fear the strong.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:29:14 2022 No.20081300 >>20081286 I can't read this

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:30:21 2022 No.20081307 >>20081265 >>20081286 黙ってろアホ共

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:31:05 2022 No.20081311

>>20081150
Thanks for chatting! I'm a recent beginner, don't have a large vocabulary at all, or even basic things, so I appreciate your questions, they made me think more and do some more research. Thanks for your well wishes - I'm not sure what kind of classes in Sacred Languages I'll be able to get into, but it would be awesome to write/speak Hebrew/Aramaic (and perhaps Syriac), Arabic, Greek, and (at least have a basic grasp of) Ecclesiastical Latin. In what context were you learning?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:33:53 2022 No.20081320 A few questions Is there a Greek guide using Latin as its base language? Why is French so weird and redundant compared to other Romance languages?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:35:31 2022 No.20081325 File: 786 KB, 803x1342, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20080967 english translation and source not classical but pretty

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:37:41 2022 No.20081333 >>20081286 >>20081300 Can you translate

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:37:46 2022 No.20081334 >>20080971 >up until the 16th century *14th

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:42:05 2022 No.20081349 >>20081320 >Is there a Greek guide using Latin as its base language? Use archive.org to look for renaissance era ones because those used Latin to teach it

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:43:30 2022 No.20081355 >>20081286 Which is: פלשתי חזור לכרתימ Translated: "Philistine! Return to Crete" I d

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:44:25 2022 No.20081357 >>20081334 16th is what I'd heard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:44:48 2022 No.20081359 >>20081355 >Philistine just means wanderer but now a bad person

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:51:01 2022 No.20081389 >>20081349 What was the classic standard and measuring stick among them?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:53:47 2022 No.20081394
File: 1.24 MB, 740x948, lion who lives a life of compassion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20081359
Not sure where you're getting that etymology. If it's originally a Hebrew word, it comes from the root פלש which means "to invade". If it's Greek, perhaps a corruption of Πελασγοί (Islanders, Greeks)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:57:30 2022 No.20081414 Why does the Sumerian glyph for "woman" look like a sideways bagina ( 𒊩)? Is this a coincidence, or are other Sumerian glyphs actually pictographic representations of that which they symbolize?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:58:54 2022 No.20081418 >>20081394 this nigga is really thick

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 17:58:58 2022 No.20081419 >>20081414 Many of them have pictographic origins, yes.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:04:49 2022 No.20081442 >>20081419 What do you think of the hypothesis that Sumerian is not actually an isolate, but is actually of shared ancestry with PIE and/or Semitic (ie. Nostratic)?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:06:44 2022 No.20081446 >>20081442 points a gun at your mother prove it

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:09:25 2022 No.20081458 >>20081442 In the absence of any systematic sound correspondences, unlikely. If Sumerian is related to any other known language it's very distantly so.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:11:44 2022 No.20081466

>>20081311
I was going to write my life story as it relates to languages, but that is far too long. Here's the brief version. I'm a bit of a tard—got learning disabilities and was told I can't learn languages. Was good in high school German. Had a few false starts in college Latin. Took off with Hebrew and did really well. Then, I got into Latin, Greek, and Aramaic and have done really well, except for Greek, which has been B, B, C, and currently an A. Over the winter break, I was teaching myself Syriac. I am starting to get the hang of it.

Here's the deal. You are never going to be speaking any of those languages, except for Arabic. You can read and pronounce them but not have a conversation with someone, unless you are really passionate and attend conferences for that sort of thing. It's a different part of your brain that is not taught in school. I imagine there aren't very many textbooks that teach it either. I've translated a few things into Latin and Greek, and when I've talked to people about it, they think I am weird af. For me, classes are very helpful for learning languages. I need something to keep me accountable.

I have some Hebrew/Aramaic resources for you. I can't discuss textbooks here, since I have investigated that very little. I do know a lot about dictionaries. I have resources for other languages, but let's keep this brief.
2-Letter Lookup (Good dictionary that runs off of Jastrow and Gesenius)
CAL (This is for Aramaic languages only. It has searchable dictionaries and texts. It's really good)
STEP (The best Bible reading site there is. You can have English, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and whatever other language all at the same time. You can click on a word and get its definition)
doitinhebrew (For Modern Hebrew but was helpful to me in the beginning)
Sefaria (Good for texts)
torahclass dot com (Go to resources and find Hebrew Audio Bible for a complete reading of the OT in Hebrew/Aramaic by a Sephardic reader)
Blue Letter Bible for Strong's (If you want to look at Strong's Concordance, Blue Letter Bible has the best version. I suggest searching Google with the number followed by "Blue Letter Bible")

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:11:55 2022 No.20081467
File: 372 KB, 3559x2636, NostraticLanguageTree.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20081446
>>20081458
I don't know enough about the linguistics to even make an argument for or against it, besides that Russian linguists are balls-deep in Nostratic. I'm just curiously reading this nigga John Allegro, who, although otherwise schizo and obsessed with penises, seems to think it's perfectly plausible that Sumerian and Hebrew/Greek are connected.

Have either of you guys looked at his Sacred Mushroom book (ignoring the theological mumbo-jumbo), and looked over his basic claims?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:13:15 2022 No.20081472 File: 352 KB, 1332x1124, karhu2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20081458 Even Finno-Ugric?

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:13:44 2022 No.20081475

>>20081389
I have no clue. I only know they exist on archive.org and other online databases like google books
Use the search term "grammatica graeca." Word of warning, the font for greek in old books is weird.
https://archive.org/details/grammaticagraeca00lash/page/n36/mode/1up

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:14:41 2022 No.20081481 >>20081467 >>20081472 Do they involve systematic sound correspondences in basic (non-borrowed) vocabulary and morphology?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:15:28 2022 No.20081485 >>20081467 >the celtic graph yikes

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:16:30 2022 No.20081491 >>20081442 That's an interesting idea, but it would still be an isolate. Language X \| PIE - Sumerian - Proto-Semitic P.S. Proto-Semitic should be abbreviated to PIS, since P.S. is already taken.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:17:15 2022 No.20081498 >>20081485 Why, what's wrong with it?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:18:29 2022 No.20081504 >>20081498 pictish is still alive and its not "Brythonic"

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:19:17 2022 No.20081509 >>20081355 How tf did you know I'm Cretan and also a wanderer Who are you

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:22:36 2022 No.20081519 >>20081504 What do you mean Pictish is still alive? Source?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:23:04 2022 No.20081522 >>20081519 scottish gaelic is pictish

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:23:19 2022 No.20081523

>>20081481
He argues that, from Sumerian to PIE, there was a disappearing of the medial /i/ between consonants - for example, Sumerian "bil" [fire] -> "bl" -> *bʰel -> *bʰl̥g-ro- -> (phlégō, flagrao, bhrája). If that doesn't sound retarded, I can find more examples.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:26:45 2022 No.20081534

>>20081466
It's cool to hear how you overcame your disabilities to be able to learn all those languages. Good job, mate. I'm fine with not being able to speak with people unless I go to their country or local market, the interest for me is more in sacred texts (although I do want a basic conversational ability - not sure how well knowledge in say, Koine, can be extrapolated to modern Greek, but I imagine it makes learning modern Greek way easier).

Thanks a ton for those resources, I already use a few (like Blue Letter Bible and Sefaria), but the rest will be super helpful. God bless you brother.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:31:14 2022 No.20081547 >>20081522 It is? Wikipedia says it was Brittonic. >>20081523 Okay, that's one sound change. That's not enough to establish a family relation.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:34:48 2022 No.20081560

I'm going to keep cycling my questions until I get answers, bear with me

-Is there a Latin and Greek roots book with chapters by thematic category? Like Green's, except the categories make it easier for reference

-Is there a Greek guide using Latin as its base language?

-Why is French so weird and redundant compared to other Romance languages?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:35:17 2022 No.20081561 >>20081547 Like I said, not at all educated on this topic, just want to learn more. How many reliable sound changes would be required to say that there might be a genetic relation (let's say, that Sumerian gave rise to either PIE or Proto-Semitic)?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:37:19 2022 No.20081568 >>20081560 this thread is slow as fuck you don't need to keep asking the same shit

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:37:51 2022 No.20081571

>>20081547
>Wikipedia says it was Brittonic
yes i remember when aristotle quoted wikipedia to prove his theories

theres no proof it was welsh and all the proof it is scottish gaelic
>>20081547
even if there is a relation its unproveable
a reconstruction of vulgar latin found it to be around 80-90% accurate overall so imagine trying to recontruct a language not 1500 years ago but 150,00 years ago or more.

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:43:15 2022 No.20081597

>>20081561
Generally, enough to predict Sumerian and PIE forms with relatively accuracy from a reconstruction. If you can create a model that generates both with only minor discrepancies you've demonstrated it.
>>20081571
So don't trust Wikipedia itself- look at the sources it cites.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 18:49:06 2022 No.20081629 >>20081568 That was just me cycling and adding an important question. I'm only going to ask a full list once per thread, and remove questions as they get answered

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:13:18 2022 No.20081736
File: 119 KB, 629x951, SumerianU.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So, if I'm getting this right, all of these glyphs made the sound "u" when used phonetically, but could also be used as logographs to refer to the thing which they depicted (eg. 𒈪 could refer to "night" when used as a logograph, and the sound "gi" when used as a phoneme) - and the actual word in spoken Sumerian for "night" would be "gi"?
If that's right, if a Sumerian said "u" to somebody in a sentence, how would they know which of the 50 meanings were intended?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:22:56 2022 No.20081798 >>20081736 >If that's right, if a Sumerian said "u" to somebody in a sentence, how would they know which of the 50 meanings were intended? welcome to sumerology enjoy your stay some people theorise it could have been a tonal language

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:27:06 2022 No.20081832 >>20081798 Isn't it also thought there might be some segmental phonemic distinctions we don't know about?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:30:17 2022 No.20081850 >>20081832 and that either akkadian or sumerian had "o" which would solve a lot of problems for us

Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:32:30 2022 No.20081862

Rewriting

#Questions

-Is there a Latin and Greek roots book with chapters by thematic category? Like Green's, except the categories make it easier for reference.

-Is there a Greek guidebook using Latin as its base language?

-Is there an Egyptian dictionary (in any language) that has usage, frequency, and source notes on time period and textual source?

-Why is French so weird and redundant compared to other Romance languages?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:36:01 2022 No.20081873 >>20081862 >-Why is French so weird and redundant compared to other Romance languages? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TWBBxwhbU Hope this helps!

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 19:37:47 2022 No.20081883 >>20081873 Thank you. First question struck off from my slate, and it was probably the most basic. I am a difficult person, as the annoyed anon related. Bear with me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 20:30:00 2022 No.20082149 >>20081862 >Greek guidebook using Latin as its base https://books.google.com/books?id=LksyAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false Can't vouch for how helpful it is, since I haven't started on Greek yet.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 20:47:18 2022 No.20082240 File: 44 KB, 680x933, 1634834650851.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20081798 There's no way this can be true, how many tonal shifts on a single U can there be, these guys were psychopaths

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 20:59:48 2022 No.20082313 >>20082149 Was it an authoritative book? A standard from which others were compared.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 22:35:59 2022 No.20082708 Rwy'n meddwl Cymraeg yn iaith farw Irishbros, how do I say this in Irish?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 22:40:20 2022 No.20082721 >>20078962 BASED

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 22:58:07 2022 No.20082772 >>20082708 I mean how do I say "I think Irish is a dead language"

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 17 23:36:35 2022 No.20082926 >>20082772 Just "English has won" Enough said.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 00:04:03 2022 No.20083013 >>20082926 I want the Irish version. Fuck off, let them admit defeat on their own terms.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 00:29:53 2022 No.20083088 Question for Chinese speakers, is it possible to bootstrap understanding and fluency of Chinese characters, using only Chinese characters? To me this is an interesting idea. But how would one even start?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 00:30:57 2022 No.20083091 >>20083088 What do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 00:39:23 2022 No.20083112 >>20082708 >Cymraeg Is this pronounced cum rag? I was wondering about this word a couple weeks ago. If I plan on learning Old and Middle English, how worth it is Welsh and Gaelic?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 00:42:26 2022 No.20083124 >>20083112 Wiktionary says it's /kəmˈraːi̯ɡ/ in North Wales, and in South Wales /kəmˈrai̯ɡ/, or colloquially /kəmˈraːɡ/ or /kʊmˈraːɡ/

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 01:06:19 2022 No.20083182

>>20083091
Teaching Chinese characters self-referentially, using only Chinese characters. Without vocal teaching, pronunciation guides, illustrations, or other languages for context and information. Chinese characters only. Theoretically, it's possible to learn an entire Chinese dictionary this way through words and synonyms, but how would one start?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 01:35:46 2022 No.20083259 >>20083182 What's amazing is that I've seen Chinese demonstrated as teachable this way. But for intermediate level onward. The thing is, IDK how to start it off.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 01:48:07 2022 No.20083289 >>20081522 Kek. Pictish is Brythonic, we know from the names on their Ogham stones. Scottish Gaelic is not Pictish, it is descended from Middle Irish and still mutually intelligible with modern Irish, especially the Ulster/Donegal dialect

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 02:50:01 2022 No.20083415 >>20083182 I guess you could, but you wouldn't know how to pronounce them unless you already know the spoken Chinese words. Well, I guess if you joined them with anatomical diagrams of how to pronounce the words? But that seems overly complicated.

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 03:10:53 2022 No.20083454

>>20083182
1. "1" = 一
2. "=" = 也
3. 1一也
4. 一与二、是三也

You would need some diagrams after this to indicate the meaning of 是, I suppose. It would be a very long process.

LLPSI relies heavily on cognates between Latin and modern European languages in the early pages. "Roma in Italia est" is not comprehensible to a monolingual Chinese speaker either.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 03:16:59 2022 No.20083464 >>20083454 They'd at least recognize 'Roma' and 'Italia'.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 03:28:28 2022 No.20083490 >>20083464 Depending on their education level... Assuming they know pinyin well, it's still a reasonable jump from Yidali and Luoma. Not as big a jump as 北京在於中国 would be for a monolingual European, but still nontrivial.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 03:32:04 2022 No.20083492 >>20083490 "Běijīng zàiyú Zhōngguó" doesn't seem like as much of a leap though- through a few examples it wouldn't be so hard to figure out what "zàiyú" means.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 03:45:06 2022 No.20083517 >>20081522 >roleplay Pictish was a Brittonic-Celtic language. Scottish Gaelic comes from Ireland and is a Goedelic-Celtic langauge.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:08:27 2022 No.20083550 >>20083517 Thats wrong but okay

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:10:54 2022 No.20083553

>>20083289
Lol all our oghams stones are Gaelic you spastic and so are the names

detoddre - d et Oddre
ehteconmorr - ehte con morr
Modernly D' ait Odraibh, Aite Con Mor

lesmeqqnanammovvest - les meqq nan am movvest
Modernly Leas MicNan am Mobhaist

maqqoitalluorr - maqq oi talluorr
Modernly Mac O'Talluor

torc
aecbead
torc
ingne
no
its 'AecBead not AepBead
>detoddre - d et Oddre
ehteconmorr - ehte con morr
Modernly D' ait Odraibh, Aite Con Mor

lesmeqqnanammovvest - les meqq nan am movvest
Modernly Leas MicNan am Mobhaist

maqqoitalluorr - maqq oi talluorr
Modernly Mac O'Talluor

torc
aecbead
torc
ingne
no
its 'AecBead not AepBead

Fergus
Angus
Calgach
Kenneth
Alpin
Conall
Feradach
Ollamh
Finnshneachta
Fiacha Araidhe

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:11:55 2022 No.20083555 >>20083289 >mutually intelligible with modern Irish, especially the Ulster/Donegal dialect And? Anglo-Saxon was intelligible with Norse and they were separated for centuries.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:12:00 2022 No.20083556 >>20083550 I'd like to hear your evidence for that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:17:19 2022 No.20083566 >>20083556 See >>20083553 >>20083555

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:52:50 2022 No.20083637 >>20077087 How much Latin did Shakespeare actually know?

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:55:28 2022 No.20083639

>>20081736
>So, if I'm getting this right, all of these glyphs made the sound "u" when used phonetically
we don't know, but they seem to have the value 'u'
>but could also be used as logographs to refer to the thing which they depicted
yes
>gi
probably more like ŋi
>If that's right, if a Sumerian said "u" to somebody in a sentence, how would they know which of the 50 meanings were intended?
we don't know, as >>20081798 said some people think it might have been tonal
another (likely) possibility is that we misunderstand how cuneiform represents the sumerian language
>>20081832
yes, and scholars have generally begun to transcribe as much of the word as possible, only leaving the shortened form in imperfectives and if the next sign starts with the consonant that a given sign ends in

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:55:44 2022 No.20083642 >>20083637 I'm sure he could read the Vulgate, maybe some Cicero.

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 04:56:54 2022 No.20083645

>>20081862
>Is there an Egyptian dictionary (in any language) that has usage, frequency, and source notes on time period and textual source?
Faulkner's Concise Dictionary of Middle Egyptian has everything but source notes on time period, presumably because the time period that the dictionary covers is limited anyways.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 06:28:21 2022 No.20083826 >two hours later >still no rebuttal state

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 06:35:40 2022 No.20083851

>>20083642
He would definitely be capable of reading Cicero. Cicero was and is a major part of Latin education, which was the only type of education in Shakespeare's day. He, of course, knew Ovid well. I think Ben Jonson was just salty, and I mean that in the English sense, not the Latin sense.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 06:40:45 2022 No.20083860 >>20083637 he read the first few chapters of LLPSI

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 06:57:27 2022 No.20083890 >>20083851 >which was the only type of education in Shakespeare's day

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 13:17:38 2022 No.20085002 >>20082708 Is that Welsh?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 14:00:25 2022 No.20085150 >>20083890 Shakespeare was a well-educated genius. What more do you want me to say?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 14:39:20 2022 No.20085265 >>20082708 Is dóigh liom gur Béarla an teanga marbh é.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 15:31:06 2022 No.20085464 https://streamable.com/frdnc3 What's his problem?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 15:41:26 2022 No.20085495 >>20085464 Cur non laeta est Iulia? Non laeta est, quia Marcus plorat.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 15:43:23 2022 No.20085500 >>20085495 Iulia est puella proba!

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 15:54:43 2022 No.20085531 I am working through LLPSI, are any of the supplementary books worth looking at?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 16:00:37 2022 No.20085552 >>20085531 see >>20076640

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 18:07:59 2022 No.20086057 >>20085265 chaidh an eirieannis marbhaidh agus bu sin lochd aca

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 19:03:47 2022 No.20086349

I started reading and taking notes on Huehnergard's akkadian textbook. Might be fun, might not stick with it. I don't have a lot going on right now in my life

>>20077796
A. K. Warder introduction to Pali is pretty good, I haven;t used it cause im not really interested in Pali but it has very extensive reading sections

>>20082313
this is an extremely niche topic and you're going to have to go elsewhere than 4chan
just look for a book about learning ancient greek in the renaissance, there's definitely a few for italy. here's some random ones that i can find from searching, one of them might have your answer.
Cicollela & Silviano (2017)
Wilson (2017) From Byzantium to Italy

erasmus talked about how hard learning greek was. lots of italian intellectuals in the 15th and 16th century learned greek from byzantine immigrants: bruni, valla, poliziano, ficino, many others.

theodorus gaza wrote a classical greek grammar during the renaissance that probably also existed in latin translation. there might be more information on his work and others in Fabricius' Bibliotheca Graeca, which is on archive.org in many volulmes and I have found impossible to navigate. It is itself of course in Latin.

Anonymous Fri Mar 18 19:13:47 2022 No.20086395

>>20082313
>>20086349
OK you know what, I decided I would look a little more.

Volume 7 of Fabricius' Bibliotheca Graeca
https://archive.org/details/b30532991_0007
page 26-34 has dionysius thrax' greek grammar, which i understand was something of a standard for a long time (maybe the same status as Donatus, i'm not sure). there's no translation provided here.

starting on page 34 he has a list of some greek grammars that had at that point been published (editi) and following that a number of works he knew to exist but which had not been published (inediti). This work was from like 300 years ago though so probably some of those latter group had been published. There's a number of names, but i've personally looked at both theodorus gaza and constantine lascaris and i know that both of them had been published in parallel greek/latin editions. very interesting for learning about greek grammatical terms.

i'm not an expert on this, but i feel confident speculating that these would have formed only a relatively small (but important) part of greek education. if it was anything like learning latin in the middle ages, they probably would have studies these grammars very closely, maybe even memorized them (as you would donatus), but you would presumably work and talk a lot with a tutor (who came, at least at first, from constantinople after 1453). i haven't looked at every single renaissance greek grammar but I would be shocked if any of them were suitable for learning from with no guidance or other resources, if that's what you're looking for.

i don't know anything about which one would have been "standard", i'm not even sure if research into that subject has been done, let alone published. I would be interested to see though, as you can tell this is one of my amateur interests.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 18 19:45:50 2022 No.20086501 I'm learning Chinese right now but is there a site with Anki Decks or some apps I can use on my phone to study Classical Chinese?

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 00:37:58 2022 No.20087500 [DELETED]

>>20086349
>this is an extremely niche topic and you're going to have to go elsewhere than 4chan
Are you kidding? 4chan ends manhunts faster than the FBI. 4chan will definitely be able to track down a Latin textbook for Greek. Obviously, there isn't a very good reason to learn with such a textbook, but one was likely published. I do know that there are some textbooks that do make mention of other languages when explaining concepts.

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 00:40:34 2022 No.20087510

>>20086349
>this is an extremely niche topic and you're going to have to go elsewhere than 4chan
Are you kidding? 4chan ends manhunts faster than the FBI. 4chan will definitely be able to track down a Latin textbook for Greek. Obviously, there isn't a very good reason to learn with such a textbook, but one was likely published. I do know that there are some textbooks that do make mention of other languages when explaining concepts.
And 10 minutes later, you proved that 4chan autists are actually pretty resourceful. >>20086395

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 01:09:48 2022 No.20087610

>>20081088
I was thinking about your comment today and decided to look. I found a website called open book dot gr for modern Greek books. They have a full Iliad on there, but apparently, there are technical issues that prevent me from downloading it. Which have been persistent for 6 hours. Downloading a Modern pronunciation audiobook of the Battle of Frogs and Mice (Homerish) Ancient Greek text was without trouble. I was watching some Modern Greek YT videos unrelated to classics or language learning, and I must say that woman was a pleasantly clear reader compared to the frantic and slurred tongue I heard earlier. It was also a Librivox recording. All Librivox recordings are in the public domain. You could look for it on the Librivox website.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 05:29:14 2022 No.20088146 θανών νῆμα

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 06:38:32 2022 No.20088253 >>20080348 אין אף אחד פה שמדבר בעברית המודרני- אם למדו עברית אז זה רק העברית של התנ״ך. הגוים הם כבשים

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 06:41:34 2022 No.20088261

>>20080501
ממש לא נכון
>>20080554
יותר רחוק אבל יו טרייד יור בסט, סטופיד גוי

You will never speak academic Hebrew like a Bochur who has learned the Mishnah every day of his life since 13 and got a hot 18 year old broodmare wife in a marriage arranged because he’s such a good student. Cope

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 07:59:22 2022 No.20088437
File: 1.44 MB, 1572x1150, 1647151381130.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Forgive my laziness for not just researching, but what evidence is there for Sumerian ⟨g̃⟩ being a VELAR nasal /ŋ/ specifically? Since it was phonemic syllable-initially and finally, it's weird that ⟨n⟩ does not turn into ⟨g̃⟩ before velar consonants in writing (e.g. never eg̃-ki instead of en-ki). It seems much more plausible for it to have been a palatal nasal /ɲ/ (like Spanish ñ) instead.
Alternatively, they might have actually said [en.ki] rather than [eŋ.ki], but that's quite weird
I'm probably missing something very obvious here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 08:04:53 2022 No.20088457 >>20088437 Can't answer your question, but Sumerian phonology is pretty much a crapshoot anyways, as far as I know.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 08:19:32 2022 No.20088502 Are there any good sign-lists or books for learning Hieratic? Also Demotic is good too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 08:20:34 2022 No.20088507 File: 265 KB, 954x400, Westcar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20088502 >Hieratic Most aesthetic script of all time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 09:23:10 2022 No.20088662 >>20088502 Hiecratic isn't a language its just cursive hieroglyphics

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 09:40:34 2022 No.20088714 you niggas lied, Plato is easier than Lysias or Xenophon

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 09:45:08 2022 No.20088729 >>20088662 ...your point being? I can't read Hieratic just because I can read the hieroglyphic script, since most of the signs aren't immediately identifiable.

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 10:04:08 2022 No.20088782

>>20088457
There's still a bit to salvage.
Looking back at the post: Those were probably consonant mutations that were too irrelevant to transcribe in a logo-syllabic script as cuneiform. That raises another question: was cuneiform at least more representative of the language's phonology earlier before(?) standardization?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 10:40:46 2022 No.20088896 >>20088729 Ah right a moany cunt Piss off

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 10:46:08 2022 No.20088915 >>20077087 Is there any way I can spin clay tablets as being hyperborian in my fantasy?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 11:26:02 2022 No.20089027 >>20087510 I didn't mean for the question "are there greek textbooks in Latin", i meant specifically the question "which one was most highly regarded at the time". I doubt that research has even been done yet. Sorry I wasn't clear.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 12:04:08 2022 No.20089145 Thinking about learning Egyptian and engraving monotheistic Islamic poems in the desert to confuse archaeologists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 13:53:21 2022 No.20089486 what's the best textbook for biblical hebrew?

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 14:31:05 2022 No.20089611

>>20088896
As an outside viewer, you're the whiny cunt. The other guy is trying to be constructive and make something of his life.
>>20088729
Syriac was hard for me, so I feel ya. I don't have answers for you, but you might want to look into books on Egyptian paleography.

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 16:14:04 2022 No.20090123

>>20089611
>I don't have answers for you, but you might want to look into books on Egyptian paleography.
Thans, going to try that. Found a PDF of the Hieratic text of the Shipwrecked Sailor together with a Hieratic sign list, but that is a bit of a limited use if I actually want to learn the complete script.

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 18:20:02 2022 No.20090663
File: 462 KB, 1500x892, maya 616_10_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So this is a pretty tangential question, but I figured i'd ask here:

I'm interested in learning spanish to have a greater access to sources on Mesoamerican history, but i'm concerned a general Spanish course or programs won't help much with the specific terminology used in academic research, or more to this thread's topic, 16th century Spanish documents with how much the language has changed in 500 years (especially since in some cases I may have to be looking at the original document/scripts, rather then it being transcribed in a more modern font)

How much of a concern is that, really? I figure the latter point especially will be, but even just the academic terms/language shift bit?

>>20078892
>>20078931
>>20078934
>>20078940
>>20078942
>>20078951
Mesoamerican history dumper from /his/, /v/, etc here

As has been said the vast majority of Maya inscriptions are dynastic/political, astronomic/astrological, or some combination of them with mythology. Sometimes you get stuff like construction dates for buildings and monuments or stuff like that, but it's really fundamentally mostly "On X date Y happened" sort of records.

It's possible there may have been inscribed poetry or poetry in manuscripts, the Maya script, despite being often talked about as hieroglyphs, had a complete syllabary with characteres representing spoken sounds that combined to make word glyphs in addition to the more famous logograms, but I'm personally not aware of any surviving Maya compilations of poetry or narrative style annals/chronicles that weren't compiled post-contact (like the Popol Vuh) and i'm similarly not aware of any reason we'd be sure any did exist (But Aztec and Teotihuacano stuff is more what i'm informed on so I could be missing something)

Anyways, if any of you are curioius about Mesoamerican stuff feel free to ask, i'll leave this thread open at least till it 404s, though be aware i'm most informed on things like urbanism and water mangement systems and architecture, much less so linguistics. You can see my set of resources, book/art mega, past dumps, etc here; https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/12600924/#12604922

Anonymous Sat Mar 19 18:54:58 2022 No.20090806

This thread has gotten pretty slow after the first couple days. I remember that, in the fall, /clg/'s would come and go more quickly and they also had more activity. I've bumped this thread a few times now, but should we refrain from trying to get to the bump limit and just let the thread die so we can make a new one with more activity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 18:56:14 2022 No.20090810 >>20090806 >This thread has gotten pretty slow after the first couple days. because that's when latin discussion was moved to a separate thread lol this general is simply dead without latin

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 18:59:39 2022 No.20090833 >>20090810 Latin only reached the bump limit a few hours ago. /clg/ is at 250+ posts. Plus, the discussion in this thread is so much more on-topic and rewarding. I say that as someone who has an interest in Latin, among other ancient languages.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 19:16:17 2022 No.20090892 >>20090806 going to make a proper thread when this hits the bump limit t: op of the first few /clg/ threads

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 21:05:13 2022 No.20091392 >>20077087 >Pahlavi I recently found a book called "The Book of a Thousand Judgments" on archive dot org and it's pretty interesting, I can recommend it to anyone who's curious about zoroastrian law and the law of preislamic persia.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 22:48:45 2022 No.20091765 File: 95 KB, 653x490, 1647732771173.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Is there really a benefit in learning Latin if I'll only be able to read a small collection of works?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 23:53:58 2022 No.20092048 >>20091765 Why do you need someone to convince you? If you don't think it's worth the time and effort, then don't learn Latin. If you think that it is worth it, then do it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 19 23:55:19 2022 No.20092053 >>20091765 ...small collection? There's more latin literature than you could ever read in your lifetime.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:12:07 2022 No.20092124 >>20091765 Doesn't seem that small to me.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:46:58 2022 No.20092262 >>20092053 >>20092124 Really? Is there a vast amount on topics as the same level of the Greeks and rennesiance, kind of a brainlet because I genuinely believed the bulk of it was poetry

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:48:44 2022 No.20092272 >>20092262 There's quite a lot, yes, especially if you count the stuff from after the Classical period (which is like 95% of surviving Latin), much of which has never been translated.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:50:27 2022 No.20092282 >>20092262 For about 1500 years almost everything in Western Europe was written in Latin. There are enough works in the Classical era alone to keep you occupied for most of your life and as >>20092272 says they are a small percentage of the total.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:52:04 2022 No.20092292 >>20092272 >>20092282 Thanks anons

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:54:10 2022 No.20092304

>>20092053
How much is of interest to a general reader?

>>20092272
>all these untranslated works
I always her about this, but again, what sort of works? I have a hard time believing that there are tons of interesting works that no one bothered to translate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 00:58:15 2022 No.20092323 >>20092304 Well, for example I seem to recall there's a good deal of untranslated church writing if you're interested in that. Hell, I'm not sure if all the Latin works of authors like Hobbes who also wrote in vernacular have been translated!

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 02:25:19 2022 No.20092618

>>20092304
>what sort of works?
History, mythology, supernatural/spiritual stuff, poetry, science, mathematics, philosophy. Pretty much anything that you would write in any other language. Also if you are using the logic that a translation is just as good or better, then I don't understand why you would ever bother learning another language at all.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 06:27:03 2022 No.20093256 >>20077857 Is it a smut too? I knew there was some homoerotic subtexts in the EOG

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 09:18:54 2022 No.20093626 >>20092272 Is a lot of it on archive.org, do you think?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 09:26:00 2022 No.20093641 >>20092304 Write any Latin sentence, and I mean any, in Google books, and you'll find literally hundreds of untranslated works from the 18 and 19th centuries.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 10:25:02 2022 No.20093815 >>20093641 What are the best untranslated Latin works?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 11:01:07 2022 No.20093918 File: 10 KB, 250x250, E7tW2FbXEAAKXnd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] anyone watching f1 here?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 11:25:08 2022 No.20093992 >>20092282 Are these works untranslated because there is such a large amount and it's human impossible or is it because they're not worth it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 11:38:13 2022 No.20094048 >>20093815 >>20093992 Given the amount of works, those questions are impossible to answer.

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 11:57:30 2022 No.20094139

You guys seem skeptical about the untranslated books. Let me show you an example.
I wrote "stulte rogas" on Google books. A random Latin sentence out of my ass. What I got is mostly untranslated works.
Among them:
A treatise on swimming.
A drama based on the story of Judith.
A treatise on how Christians can defeat the Turks.
Other books on poetry and drama.
And a long, long et cetera.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22stulte+rogas%22
Now, are those good? I don't know, I haven't read them. It's up to you to find something good among the insane amount of options.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 12:48:23 2022 No.20094391 >>20093992 Leibniz and Baumgarten

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 13:56:06 2022 No.20094641 File: 34 KB, 573x624, EmpjHZ3W4AETBKQ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is by far the worst thing that the bald man has done https://youtu.be/Dt9z5Gvp3MM

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 15:25:33 2022 No.20094983 File: 348 KB, 1200x1246, 1200px-L'abbé_Ména_et_le_Christ_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20077087 I remember there were a few people on here studying Coptic a while back. Can anyone recommend some good beginner materials?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 15:31:22 2022 No.20094998 >>20077087 Does anyone have any good advice on learning grammar? I'm learning greek and i really can't retain any grammar tables in my head.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 15:33:52 2022 No.20095005 >>20094998 write them down over and over again. you probably waste your time watching useless shit on youtube and listening to podcasts like the rest of us so use that time to your advantage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 15:35:45 2022 No.20095009 >>20090663 Don't know spanish but isn't it just about learning spanish and then developing your vocabulary to fit the time?

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 15:53:14 2022 No.20095076

>>20095005
I've filled several pages with
λογος
λογον
λογου
λογῷ
λογοι
λογους
λογων
λογοις
νικη
νικην
νικης
νικῇ
νικαι
νικας
νικων
νικαις
ροδον
ροδον
ροδου
ροδῳ
ροδοα
ροδοα
ροδων
ροδοις
and it doesn't sit, I've cheated a bit now when writing this even.

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:05:21 2022 No.20095135

>>20095076
I wouldn't worry too much about nouns as you can usually get the meaning from the articles. Focus on conjugating verbs instead. I assume (from you writing only 1st and 2nd declensions) that you are in the early stages of learning Greek. The first few months are the toughest to get trough and you most like won't even notice how much your Greek will improve. So keep conjugating and READ a lot.

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:15:44 2022 No.20095170

It's not possible to learn a classical language. To take Greek as an example, instruction is based on the very texts that you're then asked to use your newfound Greek knowledge to interpret. Thus you learn in your textbook that λόγος has such and such a meaning in the Gospels, and then you read the Gospels and interpret λόγος according to what you read in your textbook. This is viciously circular.

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:23:03 2022 No.20095194

>>20095170
You are able to read more works in a classical language to learn about the nuances and connotations of a word. Even if originally you have to be told an English equivalent, by reading more works you can read the word in different contexts and have a better and more accurate understanding of its meaning.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:23:58 2022 No.20095195 >you cant learn a language because you learn what the words mean and then use that meaning when you read it

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:24:24 2022 No.20095196

>>20095135
I'm actually quite further on the course than my skill level... I feel so fucking embarrassed desu...

So that's why I'm asking, because things doesn't stick. I have aspersers, and it impacts my memory in a way that shit either sticks or it doesn't and right now my technique is wrong so it really doesn't.

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:33:55 2022 No.20095219

>>20095196
download some easy readers like the Italian Athenaze and Alexandros. grammar from your course will stick to your unconscious. when i finished my 6 month greek course i felt like i didn't know anything but when i picked up a dialogue by Plato i noticed that i hardly ever had to consult a grammar book.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 16:55:21 2022 No.20095303 >>20095219 I've been trying to focus on the tables and less on the text, maybe that's my problem...

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 18:44:00 2022 No.20095699 >>20094641 What's wrong with it? I'd honestly like to know.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 19:08:54 2022 No.20095795 What's better, sanskrit or greek?

Anonymous Sun Mar 20 19:15:41 2022 No.20095825

>>20095795
If you want to pass yourself off as an intellectual then I guess Greek. There's a lot of better philosophy written in German and French in my opinion if that's your interest. If you want some spiritual meaning in your life, then Sanskrit. Honestly if you think because of the Bible you can get the equivalent in Greek, I'd actually say you'd be better off learning Coptic or Syriac instead.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 20 20:57:12 2022 No.20096196 File: 60 KB, 340x528, 1641675056511.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Write 100 times all the variants of this declesion >write 100 times the conjugations of this verb Pretty good method lad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 00:34:42 2022 No.20096843 >>20090892 Paging /clg/ founder

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 02:53:26 2022 No.20097200 I guess I'll make a third thread. New bread: >>20097197 >>20097197 >>20097197

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 03:14:37 2022 No.20097249 >>20097200 why can't you wait for the bump limit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 03:24:09 2022 No.20097282 >>20097249 What's the bump limit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 03:58:23 2022 No.20097359 File: 12 KB, 275x275, 1531480777972.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20097282 dude you seriously need to lurk moar before making any more generals

Anonymous Mon Mar 21 04:11:39 2022 No.20097397

>>20097359
Just try and stop me. Also, I'd prefer not to, but I don't think the split would have happened without me, but I think the two thread deal can go on without me now.

I like original clg anon, but he's too rigid, and the Roman legions went brutal on him in the No Latin Edition thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 04:15:22 2022 No.20097410 >>20095005 >>20095076 Imagine drilling grammar using exactly the same method Chinese imperial exam students used to memorize information.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 04:32:30 2022 No.20097461 New: >>20097197 >>20097197 >>20097197

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 04:34:53 2022 No.20097470 File: 126 KB, 1406x524, Screenshot 2022-03-21 at 10.33.54.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20097410 >Chinese imperial exam students used to memorize information Yes, and?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 04:46:00 2022 No.20097507 >>20097470 You don't understand the damage rote does. Especially to creativity. Just learn German if you study like this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:11:20 2022 No.20097560 >>20097507 Inpootcels really like to exaggerate it's effects. It's meant to drill the grammar into the unconscious. I don't think about if something is a dative or a third person singular aorist when I read Greek. It comes naturally

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:14:21 2022 No.20097567 >>20097560 >Inpootcels really like to exaggerate it's effects. You misunderstand. This kind of wasteful rote is the kind of bad trend that C.I. was developed for to fix in education.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 21 05:44:31 2022 No.20097649 >>20097567 >C.I. Please elaborate

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