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/lit/ - Literature

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20076048 No.20076048 [Reply] [Original]

So what work did Kojima plagiarise to write the patriot's monologue at the end? If you guys can't name one we will have to assume he genuinely predicted post-truth politics and the rise of information/data control a decade in advance.

>> No.20076062

Doesn't this belong on /v/

>> No.20076076

>>20076048
>If you guys can't name one we will have to assume he genuinely predicted post-truth politics and the rise of information/data control a decade in advance.
Uhh, no
It probably wasn't even Kojima that wrote that sequence

>> No.20076108

>>20076076
>has to change the goalpost
Well that settles it, nice thread.

>> No.20076126

>>20076076
OP here, i'll give you that, I believe it was actually Fukushima. But I still want to know what literary work those ideas came from.

>> No.20076134

>>20076048
>predicted post-truth politics and the rise of information/data control
that's not exactly a cutting edge idea

>> No.20076155

What you retards don't remember is that the internet and forums already existed in 2001, and were popular in japan. All about lily chou chou is a japanese film from the same year and is about modern high schoolers using forums to escape from bullying.
MGS2 is good art and very relevant, but Kojima didn't "predict" anything.

>> No.20076165

>>20076048
"Influence" is a false idol, any time some suggests one literary work or author "influenced" another it means that they noticed an analogy but can't historically substantiate it.

in reality ideas like this were universally in the air for decades, see the postmodernism debates of the 80s and 90s. applying them to military intelligence is just a matter of genre selection.

>> No.20076182

He probably watched a bunch of Adam Curtis documentaties

>> No.20076201
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20076201

French modern philosophers (Debord, Foucault, Baudrillard, Derrida, Delouze, etc), Hegel, Richard Dawkins.

>> No.20076204

>>20076165
this, kojimas work is just a natural part of discourse. neither plagiarized nor predicted out of thin air

>> No.20076221

post-truth politics and the rise of information/data control werent anything groundbreaking. serial experiments lain went into much more detail about it.

>> No.20076495

>>20076221
Lain didn't go into detail about anything except endless shots of power lines. The show is empty, and tricks you into thinking it's profound whilst saying nothing. One of the few examples of media where the analysis is actually deeper and more interesting than the media itself.

>> No.20076509
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20076509

>> No.20076664
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20076664

>> No.20076868

>>20076509

>dude I don't buy your Big Story of history question everything bro
>also dude I know absolutely nothing about the sciences let me name-drop a bunch of sciency stuff and vaguely predict that computers will be a big deal in the coming years like it's a revelatory prediction at the time I am writing

>> No.20076931

>>20076495
>show, don't tell
Lain is what introduced me to the concept of Jungian Shadow. Just because they don't lecture the viewer as if they're in a classroom, that doesn't mean the knowledge wasn't put into it.

>> No.20077017

>>20076495
Lain doesn't spoonfeed the viewer, but that doesn't mean it lacks depth. If anything it's a very dense work. You might find this interesting:
https://youtu.be/XIr6TPrqRds

>> No.20077098

>>20077017
>40 minute video narrated with a speech impediment
I'm sure he says a lot of wonderful things though

>> No.20077246
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20077246

>>20077098
Bro half the video are other people talking. But if you prefer something to read, then check out Douglass Rushkoff's book Cyberia. Its directly referenced in Lain, and it'll give you a good idea of some of the stuff the show was responding to

>> No.20077332

>>20076495
You are completely right. The fact that the show is meaningless goop is confirmed by its nonsensical monologues about ‘God’. Like many other Japanese cartoons, Lain liberally uses words like God because they are invested with symbolic power, without actually caring about how much their use of the words corresponds to the actual concept the words are supposed to signify. The Lain worship is one of the most bizarre phenomena I have ever come across. A real emperor has no clothes situation.

>> No.20077373

>>20077246
this is sitting on my desk right now below evangelion and lain posters
feeling like a stereotype of the worst kind right now

>> No.20077412
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20077412

>>20077373
It's not as relevant to Lain specifically, but regarding the topics that both Lain and Cyberia touch upon, I think Techgnosis is the most comprehensive book on the mystical aura that surrounded digital technology in the 90s (and to a lesser degree, still sounds technology). Would definitely recommend reading that, more than Cyberia

>> No.20077471

>>20077412
just downloaded it, im gonna check it out

>> No.20077527

>>20076155
>MGS2 is good art
lol

>> No.20078397

>>20077332
It's hard to criticize a work on its use of language when there is a translation barrier. IIRC the word "Kami" is generally translated as "God" for westerners even though they aren't exactly analogous.

>> No.20078625

>>20076126
Fukushima only wrote filler codec conversations, this meme has been debunked since forever

>> No.20078661
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20078661

>>20076155
>MGS2 is good
No it's not.

>> No.20079743

You should probably start by looking through the works mentioned in mentioned in these articles. Kobe Abe appears to be of particular significance.

>Kojima described Abe as one of the two novelists whose deaths affected him the most. The novel, The Box Man, was the source of the iconic cardboard box in the series. He further named The Woman in the Dunes and The Face of Another as other influences.

>Abe’s novels dealt with the nature truth, lies, modernity, perceptions of reality, and social isolation in Post-War Japan. Kojima himself said that Abe’s ordinary and lonely characters that confront the extraordinary appealed to him. The issue of national borders and militarism’s oppression against identity in the video games is reminiscent to Abe’s essay collection, The Frontier Within. MGS2:SOL incorporates similar avant-garde techniques as Abe’s stage plays.

https://medium.com/@Brett_Fujioka/the-literary-source-material-for-metal-gear-solid-5ae96314cf73
https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Media_influences_on_the_Metal_Gear_series#Pok.C3.A9mon

>> No.20080165

>>20078625
The patriots monologue was in a codec conversation, and regardless I don't believe them. The games with Fukushima involved (2, 3 and ghost babel) feel so much better written I don't buy that story.

>> No.20080419

>>20080165
stay retarded

>> No.20080724

>>20077017
This video ia fucking awesome. Thank you.
>>20077098
Who gives a shit about how the guy talks, get over it faggot.

>> No.20080917

>>20076048
>predicted
He wasn’t the only one who knew it was coming. It was planned ahead of time just like everything else.

>> No.20081155

>>20077017
>"le retrowave!!!" avatar
>nasally nerd voice
Ah, I see you're another loser who takes stock in the opinions of other losers.
>>20080724
>Who gives a shit about how the guy talks
>Who cares if someone scratches glass in your ear while you watch a 40 minute documentary
Kill. Yourself.

>> No.20081238

>>20081155
Nice edge my man. Careful doe.