[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 62 KB, 342x468, SDG.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20056709 No.20056709 [Reply] [Original]

A substance in itself. What is the best literature about the grand master?

>> No.20056725

>>20056709
Musicam perscribere tanquam est saltare de litteris. Soli Deo Gloria

>> No.20056733

>>20056709
Godel Escher Bach lol

>> No.20056750

>>20056709
Substance is a category and categories don't apply to thing in itself

>> No.20056895

>>20056709
start with Forkel, and then move on to Spitta

>> No.20056910

>>20056733
Not as bad as you think. The way he explains Bach and the context his music is put into will probably give a better understanding of his music to the laymen than most books which attempt to put the theory into laymen terms. To the theory geek, it is lacking, but reading GEB for understanding of technical issues is just folly, not at all the purpose of the book.

>> No.20057143

For me its the BWV 1043 third movement

>> No.20057388

>>20057143
This and many more are better...for me
https://youtu.be/tOc6I7rxAO8

>> No.20057413

>>20057388
https://youtu.be/vMSwVf_69Hc

>> No.20057430

>>20057413
https://youtu.be/CpnfQntMisc

>> No.20057444

>>20057430
https://youtu.be/ZnIDTOR9EkM

>> No.20057452

>>20057143
For me, it's the Goldberg Variations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHxM

>> No.20058159

>>20056709
I have Gardiner's book on him. Has anyone here read it?

>> No.20058403
File: 54 KB, 436x600, wagner_von-lenbach.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20058403

>>20056709
>"Whoso would seize the wondrous individuality, the strength and meaning of the German spirit in one incomparably speaking image, let him cast a searching glance upon the else so puzzling, wellnigh unaccountable figure of Music's wonder-man Sebastian Bach. He is the history of the German spirit's inmost life throughout the gruesome century of the German Folk's complete extinction. See there that head, insanely muffled in the French full-bottomed wig; behold that master, a wretched organist and cantor, slinking from one Thuringian parish to another, puny places scarcely known to us by name; see him so unheeded, that it required a whole century to drag his works from oblivion; finding even Music pinioned in an art-form the very effigy of his age, dry, stiff, pedantic, like wig and pigtail set to notes: then see what a world the unfathomably great Sebastian built from out these elements! I merely point to that Creation; for it is impossible to denote its wealth, its sublimity, its all-embracing import, through any manner of comparison."
>Again, of Beethoven and Mozart Wagner said: “As far as fugues are concerned, these gentlemen can hide their heads before Bach. They played with the form, wanted to show they could do it too, but he showed us the soul of the fugue. He could not do otherwise than write in fugues.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXnRl6VHzjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y2IBBgGbZs

>> No.20058616

>>20056709
Christoph Wolff's book

>> No.20058682

>>20058403
I love richter so much bros. No one else compares except maybe gould if you want to spice things up

>> No.20058798

>>20058403
https://youtu.be/LfQmitWzuTM

>> No.20058817

>>20058403
https://youtu.be/hp53Jh6qO6Q

>> No.20058852

Bach achieved many good things his son's didn't, but his son's did achieve good things he didn't.

https://youtu.be/W8hKtn5ePI8


https://youtu.be/Ay2u_T4v_fg

>> No.20058880
File: 251 KB, 640x640, disgusted pepe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20058880

>>20058682
>>20058798
>Gould

>> No.20058890

>>20058880
>NOOOO you can't try to play in a different and unique way!!! You have to play it the exact same as the 10000000 other recordings!!!!

>> No.20058908

>>20058890
Richter and Fischer played in an extremely unique way which is frowned upon today. The problem isn't being unique, it's that Gould sucks.

>> No.20058938

>>20058908
>Gould sucks
Elaborate. Oh nevermind; you can't.

>> No.20059039

>>20058938
He has absolutely no sense for Bach's melodies, he plays with his own Asperger's rhythm and as such completely disfigures the emotion of Bach. He also stands much closer to the mathematical modern views of how Bach should be played than Richter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVNVDBWWedc

>> No.20059055

>>20058852
Living in their father's shadow really hurts them. I think they would be a lot better regarded today if they didn't bear the name "Bach".

>> No.20059092

>>20059039
>completely disfigures the emotion of Bach.
One can choose to play a piece more or less sentimentally. The point is Gould was making a conscious choice to play in the way he did; he could play as sentimentally as you please, as many others have, but he chose to focus instead on the unparalleled rhythm of Bach. Perhaps it is autistic, and that is why it is so viscerally pleasing, but it was a conscious choice. Can you really say there is no merit to that as a singular interpretation of a composer much interpreted?

>> No.20059297

>>20059039
https://youtu.be/FuoaorXbXVI

Gould was in an upper echelon of where geniusly knowing about music and loving music met geniusly being able to play it

I admit there are negative things about some of his recordings and performances and interpretations but I am only concerned with the plethora of positive

>> No.20059301

>>20058880
I beg you watch this
>>20059297

>> No.20059369

>>20059092
I think saying all Richter (and similar performers) did was play more sentimentally is a great reduction. Gould couldn't have played like him if he tried because it was a fundamentally creative artistry (he recognised this himself), following the romantic ideals of authenticity to a work. Whereas Richter had all the technical skill to play like Gould if he had wanted. While Gould WAS innovative and very skilful, modern students bereft of the same ability to innovate are led astray by thinking skill alone is what Bach is about.

>Perhaps it is autistic,
Gould literally had autism.

>>20059297
>Gould was in an upper echelon of where geniusly knowing about music and loving music met geniusly being able to play it
These are literally the same thing. You can't be a genius performer if you don't have some genius understanding of the work, otherwise you have the on the note skill which wins all the competitions today but is lacking all real artistry. I don't think Gould had a genius understanding of Bach.

>> No.20059452

>>20059369
Did you watch this linked video, I beg you I beg you please watch it
>>20059297

>> No.20059470

>>20059055
I havent listen to much of jcs, I do really like those solo keyboard pieces I linked, I think to no fault if his own he didn't have te infinite abundance of ideas of his father's, i remember really liking a handful of his keyboard concertos and now looking to find them I ran into others that are rather trite and uninspired; but this piece is a gorgeous masterpiece begining to end:
https://youtu.be/lLRL7fsQFT8

>> No.20059474

>>20059297
Gould's opinions are flashy pseudery that attracts people because of their controversiality ("Mozart died too late rather than too son" etc.) or his le quirky personality that people assume must make him a genius.

I don't dislike Gould, but he shouldn't have the reputation he does.

>> No.20059521

>>20059474
He struck out a few or many times but he hit many many many home runs

>> No.20059549

>>20059474
This first Scriabin piecd is some of the most orgasmic piano music I've ever encountered:
https://youtu.be/mhdJZyDhjHs

>> No.20059621

>>20059369
>saying all Richter (and similar performers) did was play more sentimentally is a great reduction
Not quite what I said
>following the romantic ideals of authenticity to a work.
Yes, and that's what I love about Richter, but that was not what Gould was trying to do.
>Richter had all the technical skill to play like Gould if he had wanted.
Playing "like" Gould isn't too hard once Gould has already played. The thing is that no one played like Gould before Gould, nor has anyone mastered his particular technique (which I think you are under-valuing) to this day.
I think the biggest reason why people dislike Gould is that they come to Gould looking for Bach. But you don't come to Gould for Bach; you come to Gould for "Gould on Bach".

>> No.20059636

>>20059549
>>20059474
>>20059369
This is the last Gould defense I will post in this thread, I can only recommend watching videos of his lectures on YouTube on Bach and Beethoven, and s many live performances as you can see thats where he really shined:

Thee first video is great introduction to Beethoven 15 eroica variations and fugue, I didn't link the variations but they are very worth hearing, the fugue is one of my favored piano pieces and noone in human history will come close to performing it as well as this video.

For the last link skip to 6 minutes in to hear a beyond perfectly played very rarely heard special piece of beethoven music:

https://youtu.be/vGMMhJOq5oU

https://youtu.be/EF3nKSoiQTI

https://youtu.be/uRj5UtuxfPs

>> No.20059726

>>20059470
>rather trite and uninspired
This may be true but it is worth remembering that JCS was one of the early pioneers of the style gallant and as a result a simple retrospective view of his music may be somewhat unfair in light of all the later developments and maturations of the style.

>> No.20059934

I never understood or cared for Bachs Chromatic fantasy until I heard this version, he unlocks all the cool potentials of it, all the playfullness and tastefulness swooning and puzzlic interlocking and bouncing balences and interactions crisply and fluidly, he is not stiff or stifled or terrified of the tune, or where he is stiff or stifled it's to for the purpose of the highest musical effect, you can call the opening arpeggios stiff or something, they are crisp and exacting, but they are beautiful that way and digitally harp like, and they interact with one another proportionately and set the entire time of the piece.


https://youtu.be/bHOdbCuBd5g

https://youtu.be/e3pizBY136E

>> No.20060032

>>20059934
Especially following 3:45,, the whole piece really is amazing, but that section culminating around 5:30 I think with the triumphant trill to resolution, is now some of my favorite piano music Bach wrote. I do wish he did a little something different with the ending however instead of just winding down. And i shudder to think of listening to another version, I have heard some and it has made me quit trying to hear another cold turkey. For fear of hearing a relation of two or so neihboring notes played to a degree of lesser brilliance and genius tasteful touchful spiritual quality would send me into a deranged panic resulting in the destroying of my immediate surroundings

>> No.20060084

Yet another one of Bachs greatest works:

https://youtu.be/98UjjwzJBFE

>> No.20060561

>>20060084

The opening music is obviously supreme and beyond excellent.

Then this part starts at:11:35
And as if was not timeless, transcendent, sublime enough, it moved into this idea at 13:30 that is just one if the most catchiest musical ideas I have heard.
La la la la
Down down down slide up to above the first down; down down down

And then echoed. So great, then around to 20 or so mark with the ?tenor+bass? Belting out that proud and triumphant tune, another one of the most compelling musical ideas I've heard, it cuts through everything, it is so true and pure of heart and soul, it is as if the voice of the spirit of mankind timelessy shouting this section from the tops of all mountains.

>> No.20060566

>>20058403
its just piano keys

>> No.20061431

https://youtu.be/EVqbl95Ezv4

>> No.20061454

>>20061431
Listen to this loudly (don't know if my speakers, likely and or, microphone recording settings, but it does buzz and fuzz out when loud volume unfortunately) try to really pay attention to the notes, patterns and ballences, and movements, steadyness, perfection of being played, the overarching momentum of the ideas and how each moment perfectly fits in with the next and the expressive relations of these patterns and speeds and subtle alterations of tempo and note length in sequential bundles and try not to get divine chills at multiple parts

>> No.20061702 [DELETED] 

>>20061431
https://youtu.be/sU9lrF4h52w

Was gonna suggest some highlights but thats too hard, I guess one of many parts that do stand out starts around 8:20. This is a true example of a masterpiece, it contains so much so perfectly organized, so spiritual and mechanical, such variety of emotions and moments, such flawless craftsmanship and artistry, so rare and singular a whole musical idea and story.

>> No.20061717

>>20061431 #
https://youtu.be/sU9lrF4h52w [Open]

Was gonna suggest some highlights but thats too hard, I guess one of many parts that do stand out starts around 8:20. This is a true example of a masterpiece, it contains so much so perfectly organized, so spiritual and mechanical, such variety of emotions and moments, such flawless craftsmanship and artistry, so rare and singular a whole musical idea and story. Also that pink dress is amazing. I can't say I would like the performance any less if she was wearing a different dress, but the dress adds to the performance and heights of beautiful effect

>> No.20062674

https://youtu.be/pTBooio3h9U