I studied the bible for 28 years

[Anonymous No.19999421]

ask me anything

[Anonymous No.19999425]

favorite verse?

[Anonymous No.19999430]

>>19999421
Can you prove God is real?

[Anonymous No.19999433]

>>19999425
Revelation 21:4 and Acts 24:15

Imagine the future blessings that we will enjoy if we listen to Jehovah !

You will have PERFECT health; NO ONE will be sick or infirm. There will be no bad people, and you will be able to trust everyone

There will be no pain, sorrow, or tears. No one will grow old and die

You will be surrounded by friends and family.

Life in Paradise will be a delight :D

There will be no fear. People will be truly happy !

[Anonymous No.19999440]

>>19999430
consider the principle of cause and effect.

Each effect is the result of some cause, and each cause is the effect of a prior cause

However that chain of causes cannot go on infinitely into the past, or else the chain would never actually start.

Logic demands something eternally existent and that is not itself the effect of anything else.

Our universe, clearly, is not eternal or uncaused

Logic points to God: the uncreated, eternal measure of all other things, the First Cause of our reality !

[Anonymous No.19999446]

How retarded do you feel knowing you wasted countless hours reading trash? Knowing you've devoted your time to become a voluntary slave for an imaginary Jewish creature?

[Anonymous No.19999451]

>>19999446
>>>r/atheism

[Anonymous No.19999452]

>>19999446
The more I stidy the Bible, the more I know more about our Creator. As I grow in knowledge of God, my faith will become stronger. Faith helps you to please God. (Hebrews 11:1, 6)

It moves me to repent and to make beneficial changes in your way of life.— Acts 3:19

[Anonymous No.19999456]

>>19999446
The more I stidy the Bible, the more I know more about our Creator. As I grow in knowledge of God, my faith will become stronger. Faith helps you to please God. (Hebrews 11:1, 6)

It moves me to repent and to make beneficial changes in my way of life.— Acts 3:19

[Anonymous No.19999457]

>>19999421
Tell me about Amos, fren

[Anonymous No.19999459]

>>19999421
How do you study the Bible for so long and end up as a JW? Cursory knowledge of early Christian exegesis should be enough to show it's false.

[Anonymous No.19999468]

>>19999459
I disagree

[Anonymous No.19999474]

>>19999421
Was Paul Antichrist?

[Anonymous No.19999475]

>>19999421
Why do I hev so an hard feeling in my pants at the morning?

[Anonymous No.19999480]

>>19999474
No. The antichrist is not merely one individual person or entity, for the Bible says that there are “many antichrists.” (1 John 2:18) Rather, the term “antichrist,” which comes from a Greek word meaning “against (or instead of) Christ,” refers to anyone who does the following:

Denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) or denies that he is the Son of God.—1 John 2:22.

Opposes the Christ, God’s Anointed One.—Psalm 2:1, 2; Luke 11:23.

Pretends to be the Christ.—Matthew 24:24.

Persecutes the followers of Christ, since Jesus views what is done to them as being done to him.—Acts 9:5.

Falsely claims to be a Christian while practicing lawlessness or deception.—Matthew 7:22, 23; 2 Corinthians 11:13.

Besides speaking of individuals who take such actions as being antichrists, the Bible also refers to them collectively as “the antichrist.” (2 John 7) The antichrist first appeared in the time of the apostles and has been active ever since. Bible prophecy foretold just such a development.—1 John 4:3.

[Anonymous No.19999483]

>>19999451
>NOOOO REDDDIT NOOOOOOO
>>19999456
You're in an awful delusion and one day you're going to wake up and realize
>holy shit, I threw my life reading and preaching complete bollocks
Hours, days, weeks, months, years
Gone
You will never get that time back
All gone just to make deluded

[Anonymous No.19999484]

>>19999483
nah

[Anonymous No.19999492]

>>19999483
cry more incel

[Anonymous No.19999497]

>>19999440
That's assuming infinite regress do not exist.
Even if we assume it, we could also pinpoint other events such as big bang as the starting point of all things.
God being the starting point also raises questions like where did God come from if he created universe. Did God already exist, and if he did exist then the starting point isn't the creation of universe, coz God did exist before the universe.

[Anonymous No.19999504]

>>19999421
Doesn't Bible claims that the universe is 6000 years old? Isn't that the proof itself that Bible is a hoax since it directly violates a universal law.
Or do u actually believe it?

[Anonymous No.19999509]

>>19999440
If he keeps staring at the sun like that he's gonna go blind

[Anonymous No.19999514]

>>19999484
>anime posting jw
If God existed he wouldn't allow something so cringeworthy and retarded like you to exist

[Anonymous No.19999517]

>>19999421
can you give me a bible?

[Anonymous No.19999520]

>>19999421
Who really were the jews,
where did they come from
are the ones who call themselves that now the same thing,
were all Israelites ''jewish'',
what ethnic groups are the closest genetically to the jews (slavs, khazars, east africans etc.?),
what role do jews play in the post messiah age if they do not recognize christ, are they still the chosen people, what does that mean in our current context?

[Anonymous No.19999533]

>>19999497
Moses wrote: “O Jehovah, . . . before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, from everlasting to everlasting, you are God.” (Psalm 90:1, 2) Likewise, the prophet Isaiah exclaimed: “Do you not know? Have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, is a God for all eternity” ! (Isaiah 40:28)

Similarly, the letter of Jude refers to God as existing “for all past eternity.”—Jude 25.

Those scriptures show us that God is “the King of eternity,” as the apostle Paul describes him. (1 Timothy 1:17) This means that God has always existed, no matter how far back in time we cast our gaze. And he will always exist in the future. (Revelation 1:8)

Thus, his eternal existence is a fundamental attribute of the Almighty.

this idea is difficult to grasp because our limited life span gives us a completely different concept of time from that of Jehovah.

Because God is eternal, to him a thousand years are like a day. (2 Peter 3:8)

>>19999504
The bible has never said that the world is 6000 years old

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/days-of-creation-universe/

[Anonymous No.19999536]

>>19999517
Sure, I use this one

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/

If you want a physical copy, just ask a christian and he will give you one (for free of course)

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/contact/

>>19999520
Syria was home to Nortwestern Semitic tribes (called Amurru or Martu) who later invaded Sumer around 2050 BCE. Abraham was born in Ur from such Semites in 2018 BCE.

In 1943 BCE, Jehovah told him to leave Mesopotamia for Canaan, he thus crossed the Euphrates and settled in the land of Canaan and his descendants remained there until they moved to Egypt in 1728 BCE to reunite with Joseph who had become Prime Minister of the kingdom.

However, in 1600 BCE a new Pharaoh saw Hebrews as a threat and enslvade them for almost a century before the prophet Moses rescues them in 1513 BCE as they marched through the Sinai where he wrote the Torah.

In 1473 BCE, Joshuah leads the millions of Hebrews into Canaan, gradually conquering the promised land until king David finally takes Jerusalem from the Jebusites in 1069 BCE.

The Kingdom of Israel thrived under the Davidic royalty, whose line was promised to give birth to the Messiah.

But conflit arose, and in 997 BCE Israel is split between the kindgom of the south inhabited by descendants of Judah with its capital Jerusalem, and the kingdom of the North inhabited by the 10 other tribes with its capital Samaria.

Because of centuries of rebellion against Jehovah, notably adopting Canaanite deities, in 740 BCE, Assyria destroys Samaria. Then Babylon takes Judah captive in 618 BCE.

But Babylon falls to Cyrus the Persian in 539 BCE and the Jews are freed and return to Jerusalem.

For a while, Jews free themselves from Macedonian Greek domination but Romans invade them in 63 BCE, appointing king Herod as a puppet ruler.

Finally, in 2 BCE John the Baptist and his cousin Jesus the promised Messiah are born. But because they rejected the prophet, God allowed Romans to destroy Jerusalem in 70, and thus the Jewish system of things cale to an end.

[Anonymous No.19999545]

Stop shilling JW shit on this board, nigger. No one likes you people. Stop being a pussy and knock on some doors.

[Anonymous No.19999548]

Knock on my door so I can spit in your face

[Anonymous No.19999550]

>>19999514
sorry

[Anonymous No.19999563]

I live in texas and feel like i have been given a mission to travel to alaska, can you share your thoughts on this? i have no idea what i must do there, but i will try to live there for a bit at least.

[Anonymous No.19999565]

>>19999421
Is the antichrist really an literall dragon in union with a seven eyed lamb with a severe gambling problem?

[Anonymous No.19999569]

>>19999440
I don't understand how that lead to "don't eat shrimp". I mean even if the "something out nothing" is a valid point, it could just as well lead to aliens or random luck.

[Anonymous No.19999571]

>>19999536
How can you reconcile the fact that the people who founded your church made a bunch of retarded predictions that never came to be? How is that not a big red flag telling you that you've lumped yourself in with an apocalypse cult?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions

[Anonymous No.19999578]

>>19999421
Is the concept of a "trinity" explicitly contained in the Bible?

[Anonymous No.19999581]

A Jehovah's Witness gets away with a thread like this and I get a ban for starting a thread about what was actually a good/thoughtful review of Houellebecq's Serotonin by someone who happened to be an Anglican priest. Jannies and mods are fucking retards.

[Anonymous No.19999582]

>>19999421
what a waste of time lmao

[Anonymous No.19999584]

>>19999581
These preachers types really should just be banned outright
There's a good amount of them shilling on here, I've seen them post videos from random obscure preachers
Awful people

[Anonymous No.19999632]

>>19999563
I have no idea either my man

>>19999565
Antichrist means against or instead of Christ. The term applies to all who deny what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, all who oppose his Kingdom, and all who mistreat his followers.

It also includes individuals, organizations, and nations that falsely claim to represent Christ or that improperly ascribe to themselves the role of Messiah.

>>19999569
Leviticus chapter 11 lists the dietary restrictions God gave to the nation of Israel.

The dietary laws included prohibitions against eating pork, shrimp, shellfish and many types of seafood, most insects, scavenger birds, and various other animals.

The dietary rules were never intended to apply to anyone other than the Israelites. The purpose of the food laws was, among other reasons, to make the Israelites distinct from all other nations. After this purpose had ended, Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19).

Later, God gave the apostle Peter a vision that implied formerly unclean animals could be eaten: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean” (Acts 10:15).

When Jesus died on the stake, He fulfilled the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:15).

This includes the laws regarding clean and unclean foods.

>>19999571
We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified.

We do not try to hide these changes in our understanding of the Bible. In fact, we record and publish them: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.”

Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape gradually, God grants an understanding of divine truth progressively, in his due time. (1 Peter 1:10-12)

As the Bible foretold, he has accelerated this process during “the time of the end.”—Daniel 12:4.

>>19999578
No

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/trinity/

[Anonymous No.19999670]

>>19999582
kek

[Anonymous No.19999725]

>>19999421
Yeah, why do you retards pretend to like some 2000 year old fairytale book that tells you a burning bush talked to a guy?

[Anonymous No.19999735]

>>19999725

[Anonymous No.19999771]

I've been reading the Bible; both in the KJV translation and in a Spanish (Catholic) translation that my grandparents owned, so as to get accounts from two distinct churches, and even in two distinct languages. Would you recommend any supplementary reading?
God bless you!

[Anonymous No.19999777]

>>19999771
¡Sí!

https://www.jw.org/es/biblioteca/revistas/atalaya-2020-numero2-mayo-jun/venga-tu-reino/

[Anonymous No.19999797]

>>19999735
The minimal fact argument is garbage, even according to christian historians who aren't die hard apologist.

[Anonymous No.19999805]

>>19999797
>it's garbage because i say so

Peace be upon you nonetheless

[Anonymous No.19999821]

>>19999805
It's not garbage because I say so, it's garbage for several reasons, for example the 500 witnesses thing isn't part of the minimal facts but it is used to refute the post-bereavement hallucinations hypothesis. Also, the 5 minimal facts are never actually agreed in exactly the way the proponents of the argument (like that habermas hack) use it in the argument. Also, jesus as a failed apocalyptic prophet explains all of that, even better.

[Anonymous No.19999825]

>>19999421
Fuck off JWschizo

[Anonymous No.19999829]

>>19999421
Mate why don't you talk about the whole overlapping generation thing?

[Anonymous No.19999854]

>>19999821
Paul wrote: “If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been raised up. But if Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and our faith is in vain. Moreover, we are also found false witnesses of God . . . Your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins. . . . Also, those who fell asleep in death in union with Christ perished.”—1 Corinthians 15:13-18.

Paul opened with a statement that can hardly be disputed: If the dead are not to be raised, then Christ, who died, could not have been raised to life.

Supposing that Christ had not been raised, what would follow ?

Then, preaching the good news would be in vain, a colossal HOAX

After all, the resurrection of Christ was a key element of the Christian faith, being inseparably linked to some of the Bible’s most basic teachings about God’s sovereignty, his name, his Kingdom, and our salvation.

If the resurrection had not occurred, the message that Paul and the other apostles proclaimed would have consisted of nothing but empty, worthless words.

Other consequences would follow. If Christ had not been raised from the dead, Christian faith would be in vain, empty, based on a lie.

Further, Paul and the others would have spoken falsely not only about the resurrection of Jesus but also about the one whom they said resurrected him, Jehovah God.

What's more, the assertion that Christ had “died for our sins” would also be untrue—for if the Savior himself had not been saved from death, he could not save others. (1 Corinthians 15:3)

That would mean that Christians who had died, in some cases as martyrs, had perished with a false hope that they would be resurrected.

[Anonymous No.19999948]

>>19999632
>We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified.
That's simply a retreat from the question being asked. It underscores the fact that the founders of your church were prideful and an ad hoc justification for such doesn't change that fact.
>In fact, we record and publish them: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174
Those aren't just corrections; they're assertions of the correctness of interpretations. For example (1886, “superior authorities”) isn't doesn't fall under "beliefs clarified." The interpretation presented doesn't even belong to Russell and isn't especially insightful or penetrating--it's the general reading of the relevant passages. Another red flag you should notice is lumping together truisms and generalities and attributing them to a founder figure. A detail I've noticed in this, when it comes to cults, is they like to list them as if they're adding up to something (in this case the idea that JW is the authority on Christianity). Red flag.
>Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.”
See, that's an overly general and somewhat vague interpretation of scripture. It isn't literally saying that Russell is allowed to be prideful and make unfounded prophecies. I could easily point out that Russell wasn't being righteous in his pride so darkness in his mind lead to pride which obfuscated true belief. Basically, you're conflating being wrong with growth in knowledge and then using scripture to excuse it post hoc--as if the point of the proverb had to do with knowledge and not righteousness. Another red flag.
>Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape gradually, God grants an understanding of divine truth progressively, in his due time.
God. Not your church and certainly not Russell.
>As the Bible foretold, he has accelerated this process during “the time of the end.”
What's more--you guys never learned your lesson. You're still a doomsday cult.

Don't think I'm trying to shake your faith in God. However, you're in a cult bud.

[Anonymous No.19999967]

Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult.

[Anonymous No.20000004]

>>19999725
Listen here, you cum-guzzling med-deficient no-grass-touching reddit-surfing pompous cringe atheist virgin faggot, I know you must be super convinced that you're right because you can beat your middle-aged mom in an argument, that you must love to mock people for their beliefs when you probably don't even believe in yourself, that you think watching anti-theist youtubers makes you more informed without having thought through any history or literature or academic arguments, and you're probably mad that atheists aren't taken as seriously online as they were back in 2008-2012, but I'm gonna point this out for you in a concise manner. The (KJV) Bible is arguably the cornerstone of the modern English language and the pinnacle of western literary influence. It's given us the perfect moral ideal in Jesus, which can never be replaced; it's given us the protestant work ethic which has built up the superior civilizations of today; it's the root of much of the philosophical thought behind most of the western canon, and you can't fully appreciate and understand most great writers like Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, Melville, Milton, or even famous scientists like Newton, Heisenberg, etc without the Bible; it's the founder of existentialism (Ecclesiastics) and existential philosophy (Kierkegaard); it's the popularizer/westernizer of the golden rule; it's the inventor of hundreds of different idioms and expressions we still use to this day; simply put, it's the book that has produced the lofty peaks of art, literature, philosophy, and overall expressions of human creativity and sublimity. If you read through Psalms and are unable to admire such literary beauty, or recognize the seeds of western moral fabric from Jesus' teachings, or comprehend the logical arguments from Aquinas and his successors, then you're a soulless npc reading from a pre-determined dialogue tree whenever confronted with such facts of life.

[Anonymous No.20000029]

>>19999829
Speaking of the generation in Matthew 24, Jesus evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.

That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicates that the tribulation must be near.

By maintaining our sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, we show that we are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37

>>19999948
These adjustments in our understanding should neither surprise nor disturb us. Ancient worshippers of God also had mistaken ideas and expectations and needed to adjust their viewpoint.

Moses offered himself as a deliverer for the nation of Israel 40 years ahead of God’s timetable.—Acts 7:23-25, 30, 35.

The apostles failed to understand the prophecy that foretold the Messiah’s death and resurrection.—Isaiah 53:8-12; Matthew 16:21-23.

Some early Christians had wrong ideas about the timing of “the day of Jehovah.”—2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2.

God later corrected their misunderstandings, and we pray that he will continue doing the same for us.—James 1:5.

[Anonymous No.20000258]

>>20000029
>These adjustments in our understanding should neither surprise nor disturb us
Again, not an adjustment. Evidence of charlatanism at best (satanic pride at worst).
>Ancient worshippers of God also had mistaken ideas and expectations and needed to adjust their viewpoint.
Again, hiding behind the idea that knowledge is iterative to deflect away from the point being made. Further, everything I said above about the nature of the list you presented and the flavor of the eschatology presented.
>Moses offered himself as a deliverer for the nation of Israel 40 years ahead of God’s timetable
Again, abusing scripture by twisting it to be about something more vague and general than what we're actually discussing.
>The apostles failed to understand the prophecy that foretold the Messiah’s death and resurrection.
The apostles. Again, not Russell.
>Some early Christians had wrong ideas about the timing of “the day of Jehovah.
You just keep going. See above.
>God later corrected their misunderstandings, and we pray that he will continue doing the same for us.
If you're coming from a place of pride you won't be able to hear his response.

You know, you actually do a lot of damage to religion and Christianity by proselytizing the way you do. People can only come to your church for the wrong reasons--intelligent people see through your bullshit, equate your behavior with actual Christianity, and become atheists. There's a solid chance that you do a lot more harm than good when it comes to enhancing spreading faith.

[Anonymous No.20000308]

>>20000258
I'm not sure what the problem is. You seem to think that we take Russell for a prophet like muslims do for Muhammad oe mormons for Joseph Smith. We don't.

We never said that he had understood perfectly the word of God. We don't pretend to know it perfectly today either.

Let me give you an example, up until 1926 the JWs celebrated Christmas, but that was until we understood that it is a pagan festivity that must not be celebrated by Christians.

So understanding the Bible is a process, we keep on improving on knowing what is good in the eyes of God !

Jehovah’s Witnesses as a whole strive to have the best understanding of the Bible.

To that end, we’ve updated our interpretations of parts of it. That means that some things I was taught from childhood have been discarded and updated to make better sense of the Bible and history.

I hope this process continues :)

[Anonymous No.20000332]

>>19999440
If "logic" says there has to be a beginning then why did you say every effect has a cause and that each cause is an effect? Clearly that premise was illogical. So you are talking nonsense from start to finish.

[Anonymous No.20000348]

>>19999735
>are you saying my cult is a conspiracy theory... that can't be right
The most gullible image in the world

[Anonymous No.20000364]

>>20000308
>I don't have to acknowledge the cultish aspects of my church
>because I can always retreat to the idea that we aren't all-knowing
>and I can state learning exists as if I'm saying something thoughtful
>that way I can mischaracterize your point while acting like I'm addressing it
>and I actually believe I am...even though I'm speaking in generalities
>and it's been pointed out that I'm twisting scripture to suit my purposes
>I refuse to doubt myself
>because I've internalized a set of beliefs
>and an attack on them is not only an attack on me but an attack on truth
>I can cling to that idea
>and remain blissfully unaware that I am actually unable to fathom a response to the specific issues you raised
You keep writing the same shit without actually engaging with the criticisms I've presented. You're brainwashed and hopeless. Read pic related and meditate on pride.

[Anonymous No.20000371]

>>20000332
I'm sorry if I didn't phrase it correctly, I will try again

the universe and all its components (space, matter, time) has a beginning

if it has a beginning then it has a cause

the cause must be spaceless, timeless and immaterial

the cause must also be personnal, because they made a choice to cause the universe

what is spaceless, timeless, immaterial and personnal ? God !

>>20000348
The Christians who wrote the New Testament had no reason to lie

[Anonymous No.20000412]

>>20000371
>everything has a beginning
>and that must be god
Ok, so not a proof, just doctrine dressed up. Stick to your fideism
>no reason to lie
Why were all the leaders of other religions liars then?

[Anonymous No.20000422]

>>20000364
There is a big difference between misguided and immature exegesis of prophecy or scripture and outright false prophecy. The later is an attempt to deceive by contradicting true prophecy and scripture.

One challenge offered to JWs is to admit that they made mistakes.

There is no cognitive dissonance about this. As one would expect from sincere Christians, this challenge is very easy to meet, as this one example shows:

The October 1, 1984 issue of The Watchtower on page 24, ‘Jehovah Has Dealt Rewardingly With Me,’ stated:

“Regarding his [Rutherford’s] misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he once confessed to us at Bethel, “I made an ass of myself.””

Another such admission is found in our faith-strengthening history book Jehovah’s Witnesses: Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom:

“Later on, during the years from 1935 through 1944, a review of the overall framework of Bible chronology revealed that a poor translation of Acts 13:19, 20 in the King James Version, along with certain other factors, had thrown off the chronology by over a century. This later led to the idea—sometimes stated as a possibility, sometimes more firmly—that since the seventh millennium of human history would begin in 1975, events associated with the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign might start to take place then. Did the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses on these matters prove to be correct? They certainly did not err in believing that God would without fail do what he had promised. But some of their time calculations and the expectations that they associated with these gave rise to serious disappointments.” (pages 632-633)

Thus, it was a breakthrough in deciphering Bible chronology and uprooting an inherited and cherished error from the 19th century that led to the sensational (and sometimes immaturely expressed) expectations for 1975

But this did not prevent JWs from continuing to study the Bible and improve our understanding of it !

>>20000412
>and that must be god

What else would it be ?

>Why were all the leaders of other religions liars then?

Either power, money or women. The apostles had none of these !

[Anonymous No.20001598]

>>19999421
>i wasted my 28 years of my life please give me copium

[Anonymous No.20002865]

>>19999421
Did you win enough good boy points to get into heaven?

[Anonymous No.20002876]

>>19999421
is satan/the devil actually a good guy? it seems like hes kinda god's right-hand angel and stuff

[Anonymous No.20002935]

>>19999421
Would you recommend me reading it, I mean, is it somewhat enjoyable literature? or is it just theology propaganda

[Anonymous No.20002938]

Why didn't Jesus fulfill the Messianic prophecies? Doesn't that mean he couldn't have been the Messiah?

[Anonymous No.20002963]

>>20000422
>The apostles had none of these !
If Roman sources are anything to go by, lots of women joined the cult and participated in its nocturnal rites. And people were encouraged to donate all their wealth to the leadership, or else they'd end up like Ananias and Safira.

[Anonymous No.20003981]

>>19999632
>We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified.
You know very well that if a prophet of the OT was 99% right he would be stoned to death. Your sect of heretical theology is disturbing and you my fair better being more critical of it.

[Anonymous No.20004179]

>>19999421
Favorite character from the old testament? Also, what version do you recommend for those who want to reconcile?

[Anonymous No.20004494]

Oh neat, my thread isn't archived :)

>>20002865
God selects a limited number of faithful Christians who, after their death, will be resurrected to life in heaven. (1 Peter 1:3, 4)

They will serve alongside Jesus as kings and priests for 1,000 years. (Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:6) They will form the “new heavens,” that will rule over the “new earth"

The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4)

God promises everlasting life on earth for most good people.—Psalm 37:11, 29, 34.

Jesus said: “No man has ascended into heaven.” (John 3:13) He thus showed that good people who died before him, such as Abraham, Moses, Job, and David, did not go to heaven. (Acts 2:29, 34) Instead, they had the hope of being resurrected to life on earth.—Job 14:13-15.

The resurrection to heavenly life is called “the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:6) This indicates that there will be another resurrection. It will be an earthly one.

>>20002876
Satan is the original cause of evil.

Though once a perfect angel, Satan developed feelings of self-importance and craved worship, and eventually challenged God's right to rule. Satan caused Adam and Eve to disobey God, and humanity subsequently became participants in a challenge involving the competing claims of Jehovah and Satan to universal sovereignty. Other angels who sided with Satan became demons.

God's subsequent tolerance of evil is explained in part by the value of free will. But this period of suffering is one of non-interference from God, which serves to demonstrate that Jehovah's right to rule is both correct and in the best interests of all intelligent beings, settling the issue of universal sovereignty. Further, it gives individual humans the opportunity to show their willingness to submit to God's rulership.

At some future time known to him, God will consider his right to universal sovereignty to have been settled for all time. The reconciliation of "faithful" humankind will have been accomplished through Christ, and nonconforming humans and demons will have been destroyed. Thereafter, evil (any failure to submit to God's rulership) will be summarily executed !

[Anonymous No.20004500]

>>20002935
Of course !

As those millions of readers more have learned, reading the Bible can help you to live a more enjoyable life. (Isaiah 48:17, 18)

Among other things, it can help you (1) make good decisions, (2) make real friends, (3) cope with stress, and (4) best of all, learn the truth about God.

The Bible’s advice comes from God, so you can never go wrong following it. God never gives bad advice :)

>>20002938
See: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/messianic-prophecies-jesus-messiah-meaning/

>>20002963
Never happened

>>20003981
You are right, JWs, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect.

However

Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’

Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’

The Watchtower has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425)

“Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306)
“it does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157)

“The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263)

“The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”—February 15, 1981, page 19.

[Anonymous No.20004505]

>>20004179
My favorite character is Paul !

[Anonymous No.20004521]

>>20000371
>>19999440
But this just proves there's an abstract "creator" not a Christian God or even an interventionist god

[Anonymous No.20004533]

>>20004521
So we've established that God exists, and if God exists then miracles exist, if miracles exist then Jesus' resurrection is possible, if it is possible then all of the evidence from eyewitneses prove it actually happened, and since Jesus preached about the God of the OT, both the OT and the NT, which is the entire bible, are true

[Anonymous No.20004540]

>>20004533
>if it is possible then all of the evidence from eyewitneses prove it actually happened
Well it sounds like you're genuinely retarded. Something being possible and having witnesses does not prove it existed.

[Anonymous No.20004543]

>>20004540
explain why the christians preached that Jesus resurrected then

[Anonymous No.20004546]

>>20004543
Maybe they had hallucinations, maybe they were gullible, maybe they were liars, etc. Point is, it's not a proof and you're low IQ.

[Anonymous No.20004548]

>>20004546
all debunked in my drawing here >>19999735

find something else

[Anonymous No.20004554]

>>20004548
Not what debunking means. You just keep being more and more retarded.

[Anonymous No.20004564]

>>20004554
yare yare daze

[Anonymous No.20004567]

>>20004521
It proves nothing lmao

[Anonymous No.20004570]

>>20004567

[Anonymous No.20004572]

>>20004560
>>20004564
>goes full schizo
Great thread please don't post again

[Anonymous No.20004574]

>>20004554
Dude this guy is a well-known schizo on /his/ who keeps blabbering about his bullshit on and on and never argues in good faith. He is retarded and engaging with him is absolutely useless. Don't waste your time

[Anonymous No.20004592]

>>20004572
>>20004574
Either two things happened:

A) Jesus is killed. He does not resurrect. And people would realize he was a false prophet. The gospels are never written, and every Jew returns to his daily life.

B) Jesus is killed. But he resurrects only three days later. He meets with his followers who are ecstatic, they spread his resurrection to everyone, the gospels are written, their faith grows even more and they are ready to die because they believe something that have seen with their own eyes: that Jesus is the son of God and rose from the dead.

Which of these happened, A or B ?

[Anonymous No.20004594]

>>20004592
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Stop posting

[Anonymous No.20004602]

>>20004592
C: both you and Jesus are full of shit

[Anonymous No.20004603]

>>19999421
what do you think about the different versions? i read KJV because i am British, but the bible websites default to NIV which is quite different in many cases and too direct and simple imo, too simplified.

[Anonymous No.20004604]

>>20004603
See >>20004574. OP has probably never even read the bible cover to cover.

[Anonymous No.20004613]

>>20004594
How is it false ? If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, Christianity would have never started

It's logical

>>20004602
What makes you say that ?

>>20004603
I don't like the KJV

it says unicorns exist, it contains the Johannine comma is a well known forgery and most important of all it replaces the name of God (Jehovah) with the title 'Lord'

>>20004604
>ad hominem

many such cases !

[Anonymous No.20004624]

>>20004613
dumb faggot
go back to /his/ and stop shitting up this board with your nonsense

[Anonymous No.20004648]

>>20004624
If Jesus didn't resurrect, where is his body ? Why have no one found it ?

[Anonymous No.20004665]

>OP calls others out for using logical fallacies, while he actively uses false dilemmas and circular reasoning

[Anonymous No.20004669]

>>20004665
why wouldn't I trust eyewitnesses of the events ?

[Anonymous No.20004727]

>>20004500
>Never happened
Hmmm, well if the leaders of the disciples did not in fact have access to money and women then the episode in Acts with Ananias and Safira would indeed not make any sense. After all, why kill people over money if it isn't something you want? What else never happened in the Bible that made it in there regardless?

[Anonymous No.20004742]

>>20004727
Let’s analyze the facts. There are 3 main reasons why a group as small as 1st century Christians would want to propagate a plot of this magnitude.

Money. The women. The power.

We will see if they have benefited from any of these things.

1) money: Did the apostles become rich after having founded Christianity ?

Jesus' disciples followed this command: “You have received freely, give freely. ”(Matthew 10: 8).

Is there any evidence that the disciples were asking to be paid for their services ?

when the sorcerer Simon saw the miraculous powers possessed by the apostles Peter and John, he asked them to pass them on to him for a sum of money. But Peter rebuked him, saying: “May your money perish with you, because you have thought of making yourself master, by money, of the free gift of God. ”- Acts 8: 18-20.

The apostle Paul manifested a state of mind similar to that of Peter. He could have afforded to be in charge of his fellow Christians in Corinth. Yet he worked with his hands to provide for himself (Acts 18: 1-3).

Because of this, he could confidently say that he had preached the good news to the Corinthians “for free”. - 1 Corinthians 4:12; 9:18.

Evidence shows us that Christians voluntarily contributed financially to help brothers and sisters in need, and apostles and other reputable Christians distributed this money in all churches to help the poor and needy.

1 Corinthians 16: 2,3
Every first day of the week, each of you put something aside according to your means, so that no collections are made when I arrive. And when I am there, I will send to Jerusalem the men whom you recommend in your letters to bring your kindly gift there.

Conclusion: no, Christianity did not make its founders rich

[Anonymous No.20004760]

>>20004742
The christer community literally killed a couple in Acts for not handing over all their money. Also, as we know from the Roman sources, they would only meet at night, like other criminals, because the cover of darkness was used for illicit activity. Hmmmm.

[Anonymous No.20004771]

>>20004760
>The christer community literally killed a couple in Acts for not handing over all their money

No, God stroke them. Did you even read Acts ?

>Also, as we know from the Roman sources, they would only meet at night, like other criminals, because the cover of darkness was used for illicit activity

“All those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.”—2 TIM. 3:12.

On the night before our Lord Jesus was put to death, he said that all who choose to be his disciples will be hated. (John 17:14)

Up until now, faithful Christian Witnesses of Jehovah have been persecuted by those who oppose true worship. (2 Tim. 3:12) That is why people hate us today still.

[Anonymous No.20004776]

>>20004771
>No, God stroke them. Did you even read Acts ?
What if I don't believe that because it is an obvious lie?
>Oh, uh, God killed them. Not me, uh, no it was the Lord. I am just the cult leader I don't dispatch anyone by my hand, it is only by the hand of God!
Are you actually this gullible or just trolling?

[Anonymous No.20004778]

>>20004776
He's genuinely retarded, I don't know why you still bother

[Anonymous No.20004794]

>>20004778
Evidence for third parties of the intellectual deficiencies of late christerism in western culture

[Anonymous No.20004797]

>>20004776
killing is forbidden by christians, christians have never killed so what you say makes 0 sense

[Anonymous No.20004799]

>>20004797
why does jesus' mother have fuck me eyes in your drawing

[Anonymous No.20004807]

>>20004799
it's not the idea i wanted to convey

[Anonymous No.20004811]

>>20004807
too late I'm stroking

[Anonymous No.20004812]

>>20004797
Literally in the Bible. You think "God" killed them and not the cult; I think that's obvious bullshit. Let's see some mobster use that excuse in real life and see how far it gets him

[Anonymous No.20004819]

>>20004812
do you have evidence for your claim or are you just going to accuse them without proof ?

[Anonymous No.20004862]

>>20004819
Yes the Bible is evidence that members of the cult were killed over money

[Εγώ No.20004875]

>>19999421
Are you the French Jehova's witness from /int that makes this thread every day?

[Anonymous No.20004879]

>>20004862
No ? God stroke them because at this early period of the Christian congregation, God was not going to allow something this serious happen and ruin everything like the fiasco that happened in the Sinai when the Israelites made the golden calf

>>20004875
yes :)

[Anonymous No.20004888]

>>20004879
suicide toi non ironiquement, taré

[Anonymous No.20004893]

>>20004879
>god killed them over a small sum of money
Wow he's just like us christbros, completely human

[Anonymous No.20004894]

>>20004893
they deliberately lied against the holy spirit

[Anonymous No.20004896]

>>20004894
Yahweh is just a minor demon. You're being misled

[Anonymous No.20004897]

>>20004894
>don't break the cult rules or you'll be murdered
I mean, when you put it that way I guess it must be God's will

[Anonymous No.20004908]

>>20004897
That was a one-time incident and God driectly judged it, it shows that we must take our role in the congregations seriously

>>20004896
no he's not

[Anonymous No.20004910]

>>20004908
>no he's not
He is and you're a demon worshiper who'll get recycled once the next cycle comes around
Good job, useful idiot

[Anonymous No.20004916]

>>20004908
>it shows that we must take our role in the congregations seriously
Cope. I'm right—money, power, women, were all indeed at stake in the early church and motivations. That is what the episode shows and your argument that not having this is what makes your religion true and the others lying and false, is itself a lie as evinced by your own scriptures

[Anonymous No.20004987]

>>20004910
proof ?

>>20004916
2) women: did the apostles constitute a harem of sexy women after having founded Christianity?

What do we have as proof of this? Any. In fact, some, if not all, of the apostles were already married. (Matthew 8:14; Mark 1: 29-31; 1 Corinthians 9: 5)

And the Christian scriptures clearly prohibit polygamy as well as adultery. (Matthew 5:27, 28; Luke 18: 18-20)

“The Creator in the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man will leave his father and his mother to be attached to his wife; and the two will be one flesh ”" (Matthew 19: 4, 5)

"Let every man have his own wife, and every wife have her own husband" (1 Corinthians 7: 2)

So a leader must be blameless, husband of one wife (1 timothy 3: 2)

Paul was not married either (1 Corinthians 7:37, 38; 9:23).

And then what is the relationship between proselytizing someone's resurrection and women? How would this message appeal to women?

If I wanted to create a harem I would have founded a religion where as a prophet I would get as many women as I wanted and I would allow polygamy

Logically, Christianity was not invented to obtain women.

[Anonymous No.20005009]

>>20004987
>proof ?
gnostic gospels

[Anonymous No.20005011]

>>20005009
the gnostic gospels are not canonical

[Anonymous No.20005021]

>>20005011
>the gospels that call out my "god" as being a demon aren't considered canonical by the people who worship said demon
You really are a retard you know that?

[Anonymous No.20005035]

>>20004987
>what is the relationship between proselytizing someone's resurrection and women? How would this message appeal to women?
We know the early church was female enough to have a reputation as a religion for women among the Romans. Maybe there is something feminine about wanting a charismatic man to save you from suffering

[Anonymous No.20005145]

>>20002938
>>20004500

The site you linked does not prove that Jesus fulfilled any messianic prophases....

There are so many claims, so I'm just going to pick a few that are obviously incorrect.


If we look at the claim from Isaiah 9:7 that the Messiah needs to be from the house of David, Jesus being born from a Virgin means that he cannot be from the Tribe of David.

Born of a virgin: This is a known mistranslation of Isaiah 7:14. The Hebrew word is "na'arah" which means young woman, "not betulah" which means virgin. Even the Bible on the site you linked fixes this error.

Betrayed by a trusted associate: Psalm 41 is begins with King David speaking in first person. I can't understand how you would think that someone speaking in first person about their life could be a prophesy about the Messiah. In Psalm 41:9, David is referring to the betrayal of his friend Ahitophel as seen in 2 Samuel 12.

All theclaims in Isaiah 53: All the claims regarding the Messiah in Issiah 53 are wrong due to the simple, obvious fact that the servant is the nation of Israel not the Messiah. This is obvious if you read the chapters preceding53 for example Isaiah 44:21 and Isaiah 45:4 all call Jacob and Israel "my servant". Furthermore, the person who is being talked about in 53 is obvious if you read 52 first. Literally, the first line of 52 says "Awake! Awake! Clothe yourself with strength, O Zion!" showing that person being spoken t is Israel not the Messiah.

Raised from the dead in Psalm 16:10: Again with the Psalms misunderstanding. David is the one speaking here. He is talking about how Gd will not abandon him. Also, the statement "for you will not leave me" is incorrect. The word is not "me" but "nefesh" which means soul which is even corroborated by the site you provided where an asterisk provides the better translation of "abandons my soul to". This line would be better translated as "For you shall not forsakemy soul to the grave; you shall not allow your loyal one to see corruption."

See Part Two below.

[Anonymous No.20005149]

>>20002938
>>20004500
>>20005145


Those were some prophesies that you claim Jesus fulfilled, but my question wasn't just about that. It was also about the ones that he didn't fulfill that you didn't mention.

There is of course the famous Isaiah 2:4 where "they will beat their swords into plowshares". Last I looked at the news, there is still war. In fact, if you look at history, Christians waged many, many a war.

There is also Isaiah 11:6-8, "the world also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid..." which hasn't happened yet.

Isaiah 26:19 says: "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise". Tell me where the walking dead are, and I will believe.


In Isaiah 27:12-13, there is the talk about the regathering of all Israel, which still has not happened. In fact, after Jesus's death, Judea was destroyed and fewer Jews lived in Israel than in Jesus's time.


Looking at Isaiah 56:7 and Ezekiel 37:26-28, both talk about the Temple. Yet again, after Jesus's death, the Temple was destroyed. And if you go to where the Temple stood today, it is a massive Mosque that only allows Muslims to enter.
I don't like using the New Testament as a source for proving anything about Jesus, but I want to add this one in because I think it is strong. Jeremiah 22:28-30 says that the children ofJehoiakim"for none of his descendants will succeed in sitting on David's throne and ruling again in Judah". Now if we look at the very FIRST chapter of Matthew 1:12-13, we can see that Joseph's lineage includes "Josiah became father to Jeconiah and to his brothers at the time of the deportation to Babylon. After the deportation to Babylon, Jeconiah became father to Sheatiel..." which leads to Joseph. (Note that the different spellings are due to Hebrew vs Greek) Even though I can't understand how Joseph could be the father in a Virgin birth, the fact remains that if Joseph was the father based on Matthew, Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah.

[Anonymous No.20005314]

>>20004494

Your understanding of Satan is so wrong. Christians get this all wrong. I know because I was raised Catholic and am now a Deist/Theist. Please ffs if you really believe in God learn Hebrew. Once I learned a little Hebrew it became so obvious that Christian understanding was incorrect. Satan is not a being that can go against God. Angles, unlike human beings, have no free will. Disproving Satan is easy by just reading the beginning of Job.

We can see in the first chapter, that Job is called "Iyyov" while "Satan" is called "HaSatan". Note that there are no capital letters in Hebrew. Adding "Ha" to a Hebrew word is pretty much never done with proper names. "HaSatan" is much better translated as the Adversary. In Job 1:8, "Satan" has "Ha" while Job does not. You can also see this in Leviticus 1:8 "The sons of Aaron, the Priest, shall arrange the pieces, the head, and the fats, on the wood that is on the fire, that is on the Alter." The Hebrew for "sons of Aaron" is "be'nei aharon" while "the Priest" is "HaKohayn". Aaron is a name, while Priest is a title, so it gets the extra "Ha".

The first two chapters of Job show easily that "Satan" has no power except from God. In Job 1:11, "Satan" asks God to interfere with Job: "But send forth Your hand and touch everything that is his, [and see] if he does not blaspheme You to Your face!" Then God responds to "Satan" in Job 1:12 saying "Behold, everything that is his is hereby in your hand. But do not send forth your hand against his [person]!". "Satan" only gets the ability to interact with Job through God's permission. In addition, God forbids "Satan" to kill Job, which he obeys.

In Job chapters 2:4-6, we see again "Satan" asking God for permission to do something and only after getting that permission does he act with again the condition to not kill Job.

It is quite obvious that this is after the Garden of Eden too. In addition, in the Garden of Eden, the word is "Nachash" or "HaNachash" not "HaSatan". The root of "Nachash" is hissing, while the root of "Satan" is one who opposes.

[Anonymous No.20005374]

>>20005314
Meds.

[Anonymous No.20005433]

>>20005374
disprove or cope christoid

[Anonymous No.20005785]

>>19999421
Is the multimillenarian Sanhedrin strong in race?

[Anonymous No.20005796]

>>19999446
It still amazes me that we elected this guy for two terms.

[Anonymous No.20005915]

>>19999474
I often wonder about that, it sure seems like he hijacked the religion.

[Anonymous No.20005928]

>>19999421

Why is Logos sometimes translated as The Verb and other times as The Word?

[Anonymous No.20005936]

>>19999421
Do you wish to crawl into the cunt in Christ’s side and experience rapture?

If not why not?

[Anonymous No.20006436]

How long did it take you to realize the Bible contradicts itself?