/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:19:46 2022 No.19997838 [Reply] [Original]

>Translation from the 50s
>Modern language, great flow
>Same Book, Modern Translation
>Unnecessary (overdone) Archaisms, Hard to grasp, doesn't seem to understand nor express the point of the original
Why do they do this? Are young pretentious writers at fault? I've noticed it's the same things with movies, where the original dialogues are clear and realistic and the subtitles are extremly aged and theatrical.

As an example
>Right
Would be translated to
>As it ought to be

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:29:39 2022 No.19997866 Come on, discuss, I wanna hear your take on it even if you call me a moron.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:30:26 2022 No.19997868

The hegemony and hubris of 1950s academia, especially in the west twisted and biased most translations.
Translators nowadays are far more educated and nuanced in their translations and let the reader decide issues of contention.

There is no language that can get across the subtleties of an author's prose, and even in their own language the reader is responsible for their own interpretation.

Academics have different goals than they did in the 1950s and 1960s. It wasn't until the 70s that you start to get a more nuanced view of humanities.

The only advantage of older translations is that they are usually corrected in their latest printing or edition forward. If they are out of print, there is usually a reason.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:34:47 2022 No.19997878

Its actively ruining literature, I remember being completely frustrated as a youth with the likes of Plato, the Bible or the Iliad because I thought this pretentious, overly complicate language is just how philosophy/literature/theology is written. I also started to imitate it making my own essays terrible and teachers scold me for my shitty grammar, which further pushed me away from the whole topic.
Its only when I started reading proper translations as an adult that I saw literature isnt a hassle to read.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:35:46 2022 No.19997879

Usually older translators had readability in mind. In fact I'd guess that some of them saw it as their burden to improve the thing they were translating.
That attitude, improving the thing you're translating, is now seen as a great sin in the translation world. For better or worse.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:35:56 2022 No.19997880
File: 31 KB, 600x513, zoomersoy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19997868
>Academics have different goals than they did in the 1950s and 1960s. It wasn't until the 70s that you start to get a more nuanced view of humanities.
If you consider deconstructionist idiocy as a "nuance" then sure.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:40:08 2022 No.19997887

>>19997868
>Translators nowadays are far more educated and nuanced in their translations and let the reader decide issues of contention.
>Academics have different goals than they did in the 1950s and 1960s. It wasn't until the 70s that you start to get a more nuanced view of humanities.
Lmfao. Academia is far less nuanced nowadays (unless you're some retard who thinks academia until the 60s was a massive KKK meeting) and the average translator probably knows less languages than his counterpart ~70 years ago.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:41:58 2022 No.19997893

>>19997868
See, I come from the Eastern Europe, which is also why I now realise this thread is pointless as this might not be an issue in the West literature.

Also while I love to read diverse points of views; due to the language barrier it's not as easy for me to get my point across, thus I can't drive the discussion forward, again making it all completely pointless

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:42:36 2022 No.19997895

>>19997880

So you are okay with some rando making decisions for you about what someone else said because, why?
Oh yeah, because you are a conservative who plays by the rules others establish for you.

The thing about bullies is that they say "fight like a man" because they know they will get their ass kicked by a gang. Conservatives preserve, and so they disparage anything that challenges their hegemony.
Such as critical theory.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:44:03 2022 No.19997900 >>19997895 lol

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:45:53 2022 No.19997908
File: 102 KB, 1024x1024, leftsoycrazy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>So you are okay with some rando making decisions for you about what someone else said because, why?
Oh yeah, because you are a conservative who plays by the rules others establish for you.

>The thing about bullies is that they say "fight like a man" because they know they will get their ass kicked by a gang. Conservatives preserve, and so they disparage anything that challenges their hegemony.
Such as critical theory.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:46:40 2022 No.19997910 >>19997895 What are you even talking about

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:47:07 2022 No.19997912 >>19997895 Meds, now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:47:53 2022 No.19997914 Doesnt every one read multiple translations?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 17:59:21 2022 No.19997954 >>19997895 lolwut?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:02:26 2022 No.19997959 >>19997895 this is probably b8 but can libshits stop acting like they're not the current hegemony? >b-but this one boomer in some random southern state blah blah

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:11:12 2022 No.19997983
File: 138 KB, 752x524, ovid_metamorphoses_norton_critical_editions_translation.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19997838
I actually found that modern translations often dumb down the text considerably, like, read the Odyssey in Lattimore's translation then watch the precipitous drop in quality when you start to read Emily Wilson's. And Lattimore's isn't one to embellish like victorian translators of yore.

Or just look at pic related and shudder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:13:16 2022 No.19997993 File: 44 KB, 770x708, 1644939224617.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19997983 I'm confused too, the first thing that popped to my mind reading his post was picrel

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:14:08 2022 No.19997996 File: 171 KB, 774x598, ovid_metamorphoses_norton_critical_editions_translation_2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19997983

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:17:08 2022 No.19998001 File: 220 KB, 661x526, 1645030492424.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19997983 >>19997996 >it's real

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:22:51 2022 No.19998016

>>19998001
The funniest thing about it is that it's not just some bootleg translation but *the* translation of a norton critical edition, which are supposedly all about being geared towards professional use in universities. You'd think that alone would make them veer towards literal translations rather than the ebonicized fanfiction they ended up using.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 18:24:40 2022 No.19998020 File: 150 KB, 607x504, 1600719994714.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19997983 >Fuggedabout it Appollo Lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 21:45:35 2022 No.19998651 >>19997983 At some point Wilson starts using American slang like 'scalawag' or some nonsense. The shittiest Odyssey translation that I have ever seen, including kids versions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 03:08:38 2022 No.19999404 >>19997996 Bros kind of like the metre

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:01:13 2022 No.19999506

>>19997895
Different types of translations suite different needs. If you think the average reader needs or is benefitted by a translation filled with archaicisms, then you're a moron. The average reader merely wants to be informed and entertained. A colloquial, creative translation can facilitate that. Furthermore, such a translation will be more applicable to them and be more likely to penetrate their soul. Translations are meant to be understood, not be made into some mess that only vaguely alludes to the language you use on a daily basis.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:03:44 2022 No.19999513 >>19997880 brain damage, too many peterson youtube videos.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:46:30 2022 No.19999601 >>19997983 >>19997996 This can't be real. Please for the love of God tell me this isn't real

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:48:40 2022 No.19999607 >>19999601 This is a Norton Critical Edition, buddy.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:14:35 2022 No.19999677

>>19997983
>now imagine the rap musical version of this directed by Lin Manuel with the cast of Hamilton
>imagine the hordes of NPR-types praising it in The Atlantic
>imagine the OP-eds in the New Yorker
>imagine the bitter low-level academics praising it, thinking that it makes them somehow cool because it has rap in it

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:15:41 2022 No.19999679 >>19997993 >'cuz he wuz clappin' da cracka crib of Troy I don't even care, this line is unironically GOAT.

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