Is gender a social construct, as argued by Mr. Butler?

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Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:42:27 2022 No.19966171 [Reply] [Original]

Is gender a social construct, as argued by Mr. Butler?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:43:47 2022 No.19966179 >>19966171 A part of it is, and a part of of it isn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:44:35 2022 No.19966182 >>19966171 Yes. Our social lives have elements coded as feminine and masculine so of course.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:44:37 2022 No.19966183 Everything is social construct. People didn't discover anything, they created it

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:45:20 2022 No.19966185 >>19966183 Humanity did not create its biology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:46:40 2022 No.19966194 File: 166 KB, 1070x941, dworkin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966185 get off my board retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:48:24 2022 No.19966199 >>19966194 Dworkin -- the least ugly feminist

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:49:21 2022 No.19966201 File: 1.24 MB, 450x450, 1644370432509.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966171

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:50:15 2022 No.19966206 >>19966199 post a pic of yourself

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:51:28 2022 No.19966212 clears throat You will never be a woman.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:53:17 2022 No.19966221 >>19966171 Le Gender Trouble

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:54:43 2022 No.19966228 File: 310 KB, 1144x1799, me.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966206

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:57:18 2022 No.19966240 File: 497 KB, 1022x1740, Snapchat-1376254067~2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966206 I'm no beauty pageant winner

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 15:59:42 2022 No.19966253 >>19966171 No it's theological. Men have the voice of God in them and women don't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 16:12:34 2022 No.19966337 File: 701 KB, 1145x867, Williams J. - Women vs Feminism. Why We All Need Liberating from the Gender Wars (2017) (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966171

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 16:22:28 2022 No.19966396

>>19966171
It's a meaningless concept. Biology and encoded instinct, which is sexed, is determinative in human behavior and psychology: sex-determined instinct stands before all, it is either masculine or feminine and corresponds to the sex of the subject. Any deviations from so-called heteronormativity are themselves determined by developments pertaining to a basal biological sex determination (male or female) in conjunction, deviant or not, with the developing nature-nurture complex. If you're male homosexual, that is generated by frustrated male sexual, not the absence of it; ditto for m-to-f trans: also determined by male sexual instinct that was frustrated or psychologically reversed, but it is in any case a dialectic response to the underlying male sexual instinct ( mutatis mutandis for the female sexual instinct). Original biologically determined sexual instinct, reflecting genital-hormonal reality, is inescapable.

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:07:26 2022 No.19966602

>>19966171
Butler argues that gender is "performative". She actually challenges the commonly held belief that there is a biological gender and socially constructed sex (an idea that existed much earlier, as early as Simone de Beauvoir as far as I am aware). Her argument is actually quite interesting. Since you are making a thread on a literature board, you really should put at least a modicum of effort into reading a wikipedia article or something. If you just want to seethe about trans people, kindly redirect yourself to /pol/. A threadja00h about literature died for this..

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:25:47 2022 No.19966686

>>19966602
Eh, it's still just trash that divorces biological reality from the concept of man/woman
>gender is … instituted … through a stylized repetition of [habitual] acts(Butler 1999, 179)
Being a man isnt just about doing certain things, dumb tranny

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:44:10 2022 No.19966774 >>19966602 If gender was merely performative, why can't trannies pass?

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:48:15 2022 No.19966794
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Of course it's not. It's one of the few things out there (as far as humans are concerned) that is actually very clear-cut. As for Jewdith Butler, well, she just follows the subversive traditions of her people...

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:50:58 2022 No.19966805
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>>19966171
On the contrary it is heterosexuality which has been shown to be an unnatural social construct.the LGBT identity is fully based on science and evidence, not even heterosexuality is backed by as much Hard data. instead of relying on sexual repression and christian religious superstition you should catch up to the 21s century and embrace an identity based on objective scientific and psychiatric criteria.

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:52:50 2022 No.19966822

>>19966171
I am undoubtedly intrigued, i have already read lots of anti trans books so by this point id be more interested in reading pro trans literature. What could possibly justify this madness?what is some science or theory i can read which can help me check my privilege and learn more about the awful plight the diverse and vibrant culture of these warm body politically correct victimhood unit NPCs, this snivelling priesthood of pedophilic apparatchiks, cowardly hiding behind political correctness and victimhood in order to rape abuse and indoctrinate our children, purpose engineered biopolitical clientele for pharmaceuticals, the corporate monoculture and the democratic party, i mean these most noble and progressive these most pitiful and wretched of creatures?

Any lgbt/ gay/queer theory/ transgender/ cultural marxism books you would recommend to a straight white cis male who is trying to overcome his deepseated heteronormative prejudices, and be a better ally to our politically correct friends in the corporate social engineering and propaganda/child molestation community?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:53:17 2022 No.19966823 Lads a lad, birds a bird simple as

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 17:58:42 2022 No.19966849

>>19966171
>>19746147
>Perhaps one of the most disturbing attempts to undermine families can be seen in a slick video produced by LGBT in the City, a multi-media organization that produces talk shows and videos related to LGBT issues and is sponsored by such monster corporations as Telus and TD Bank. To say LGBT in the City has a hedonistic focus would be a grotesque understatement and it might be argued that at least one of their videos encourages the sexualization of children, specifically in the form of an eight year old boy mockingly named “Lactacia.”

>In a slick video released on Facebook with over one million views so far, a hyper-feminized/sexualized 8 year old boy (who some have compared to a drag version of JonBenét Ramsey) is featured partying in a hypersexual adult LGBT environment and telling kids watching that if their parents or friends do not support their desire to be drag (or trans), they need to get new parents and friends. Professional quality video and editing made this call to young children to the queer lifestyle all the more appealing. As “Lactatia” speaks to his peers, while an all too happy host leers, bold text leaps out at the viewer saying “YOU NEED NEW PARENTS! YOU NEED NEW FRIENDS!” You too can be a drag queen or transgender superstar and perhaps head out on the town to party with the wild LGBT boys and “Lactatia.” If your parents won’t get on board, they can simply be replaced with a new “glitter family.”

Reminder, This is cultural marxism this is the future they want for our children. if you support "gay rights" or "trans rights" or "queer theory"this is what you are supporting.

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:00:50 2022 No.19966854

>>19966171
Synanon, the Brainwashing “Game” and Modern Transgender Activism: The Orwellian Implications of Transgender Politics.

https://transanityca.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/synanon-the-brainwashing-game-and-modern-transgender-activism-the-orwellian-implications-of-transgender-politics-by-jenn-smith/

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:02:16 2022 No.19966861

There's no way I could currently engage with the arguments she presents nor do I care enough to bother to try to learn
As a trans woman the question of whether gender is a social construct is completely irrelevant to my life
That said, I've heard that she argues that sex is a social construct too and a part of me wishes I could understand what her arguments were for that since it does sound kind of funny but I still can't be bothered
t. novel and poetry reader

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:08:30 2022 No.19966893

>>19966171
The common misinterpretation people make today when talking about gender fluidity is believing that leftists are the ones who are denouncing gender as a meaningless social construct. This is wrong. They are the social constructionists; they are the ones deeming gender a construct just so they can invent a spectrum of narcissistic identity labels which they bully the world to accept.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:14:13 2022 No.19966927 >>19966893 Why would the left try to distract from class struggle?

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:15:41 2022 No.19966931

>>19966171
>When Palestinian residents of the besieged West Bank town of Ramallah turned on their TVs over the weekend, what they encountered was neither news nor any of the usual Palestinian Authority programming; they encountered pornographic movie clips.

>Three of the four TV stations in Ramallah, headquarters of Yasser Arafat, had been occupied by Israeli troops. The town’s remaining TV station was meanwhile running a crawl at the bottom of the screen explaining that the porn clips were the work of the occupying forces. “We urge parents to take precautions,” it read.

>Israel is not below exposing families and children to pornography against their will. I mean, what did we expect? They’re not below murdering children outright, so exposing them to graphic sexual images is a step up as far as Zionist morality is concerned.

>Replacing Palestinian news and other programming with such material also increases the stress and frustration of the populace. Remember, Ramallah’s residents were unable to leave their homes, even to buy groceries. Their need for information was intense. Israeli forces had the option of taking the TV stations off the air entirely. Instead, they left them operating, but broadcasting “replacement” imagery. The pornography may well have been even more demoralizing than no programming at all.

>George Soros and his charitable organization, Open Society Foundations (OSF), in advocating for the full decriminalization of the sex trade industry. Research finds that OSF spends only a small amount of money on grass roots “sex worker” groups around the world advocating for full decriminalization, but the foundation awards larger amounts of funds to large human rights groups whose reports and policies have a wider reach.
https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1087&context=dignity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7rqkXXb98

>Leaked files expose Syria psyops veteran astroturfing BreadTube star to counter Covid restriction critics
>Valent Projects staffer Hamish Falconer has disclosed that the “exciting” Challenging Pseudoscience campaign has also received “generous support” from the Open Society Foundations of CIA-adjacent billionaire George Soros.
tranny breadtube star philosophytube collaborated with adam ruins everything. xe also did videos about normalizing ''sex work''. the reason leftist propaganda makes you feel like you are at the receiving end of a root canal, its george soros and prince charles trying to buckbreak you into a fierce, fetanyl affirming trans sex worker.

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/12/24/leaked-files-syria-psyops-astroturfing-breadtube-covid/

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:18:30 2022 No.19966944 >>19966927 Leftism is an aliance of the 1% the technocratic managerial class with the drecks of the mentally ill lumpenproletariat against decent normal working people

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:19:26 2022 No.19966948 >>19966171 >one chance for butlerian jihad >get the one that liberates us from gender >not the one that liberates us from computers and AI Worst timeline.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:19:50 2022 No.19966952 File: 151 KB, 1309x2048, 1644797892980.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966171 yes now suck my feminine penis or get cancelled bigot!

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:22:10 2022 No.19966962 >>19966927 See any leftist commentators they care way more about normalizing prostitution getting their corporate overlords to stamp out wrongthink and inflicting lgbt molestation on children than about the working class

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:24:07 2022 No.19966972
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>>19966927
Leftists and politically correct victimhood groups such as the lgbtsjwtfnpc community. effectively function as the attack dogs of the corporate establishment and its totalitarian globalist agendas.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:32:20 2022 No.19967002 File: 848 KB, 1280x720, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966240 Crazy to think it's the same nigga

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:35:40 2022 No.19967017 >>19966171 >>19966171 CIA POMO CAPATIALIST DIVERSION THEORY DO NOT READ OR REGARD

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:37:02 2022 No.19967021 >>19966944 Yeah, it's strange how much lefties hate the middle class, it's not a particularly privileged class of people

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:37:11 2022 No.19967022 >>19967017 >DO NOT READ Are lies really that persuasive?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 18:39:51 2022 No.19967030 >>19967022 LIES ARE WEAK? MAYBE. BUT ENOUGH WEAK KICKS CAN BREAK EVEN A HEALTHY SKULL AND THESE BOOKS ARE NOT SHORT

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 19:46:36 2022 No.19967311 >>19967002 Proof that celtoids and Iberians are one race

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 20:00:14 2022 No.19967370

>all of these social constructs are made by human and could therefore be changed to the better
Ok don't agree but nothing terrible here
>The current state 'patriarchy' is a repressing and hurtful system
Starting not to agree, what would be better?
>Gays get access to young children open the borders to infinity niggers white people need to disappear and that's a good thing. Drug use is not an issue and should be supported by the state.

Oh it was Jewish all along go figure

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 20:05:09 2022 No.19967391

>>19966686
just trying to clarify a bit since nobody in here seems to have actually read the book this thread is about, or even have the most simplistic understanding of its argument for that matter. it is a literature board, after all.

>>19966861
i don't blame you. the book is written with academics as the audience and assumes a high degree of literacy with theoretical texts. it was never intended to become as popular as it did. this is something she acknowledges in the preface regarding the usual criticisms that the book is too dense. despite what everyone in this thread seems to think it's not trans agitprop meant to brainwash liberals or whatever the argument is. as you stated, it's certainly not required reading to be transgender. the argument is very abstract- it's more philosophy than politics.

>>19966927
>>19966952
>>19966962
>>19966972
>>19967021
it's sad but not surprising to see the complete lack of nuance in this thread. paranoid about literal boogeymen that do not exist, complete strawmen. you are posting on a literature board yet this reads like the comment section of a tucker carlson youtube video. embarassing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:07:56 2022 No.19967624 >>19967391 >literal boogeymen I've witnessed more of these caricatures being described in this thread than actual left wing thinkers in my life time

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:08:45 2022 No.19967630

>>19966171
No. The "socially constructed" parts like women wearing dresses are still just a culture's approach to the real female biological functions. It's effectively impossible to really separate "socially constructed" "gender" roles from societal practicalities of biological sex.
You can compare how two different cultures engage with sex (among the Ubangis women go topless, in New York women wear lavish fur coats, this difference we can consider cultural), but beyond this analysis is meaningless.
>>19966194
Sorry Jack, you've got a board and but isn't it. Try searching "r/insufferabletranny" on google.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:11:27 2022 No.19967640 >>19967630 *board but this isn't fugg

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:12:42 2022 No.19967650

>>19966171
it is based off some truths, everything is a fucking construct anyways, you're not smart for thinking you've refuted something by claiming it as "made up" there are certain atitudes that men have that are entierly masculine, and these constructs are a way to control that and manage them, same for women, with that said when a modern man has become demoralized and effeminate we should not adjust these constructs to fit that change, it would double down on the conditions that made the change in the first place which tend to be awful, modernity, technology, lack of physical activity which everyone nowadays agree isn't very good for the mind

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:47:45 2022 No.19967820 >>19967391 how about you provide an explanation then as to why leftists consistently endorse the worst effects of capitalism -- family collapse, sexual deviancy, gender fluidity, atheism, etc

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:49:06 2022 No.19967826 >>19967311 I mean, didn't the Celts originate in Iberia? There are Celtic ruins in Spain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:50:54 2022 No.19967836 >>19967820 simple: those things arent actually manifestations of capitalism, and its their exact objective to make you think they are so that, when u decide to get mad, ur distracted/wasting time on those things.

Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:52:15 2022 No.19967840

Saying something is a social construct, itself, says nothing. That being said, the ROLES of the sexes -- or what might be called "gender roles" -- are what's socially constructed.

It would be best to say sex and sex roles, since gender has become some seemingly spiritual thing; which is ironic considering how so many materialists love to cling to it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:57:25 2022 No.19967863 >>19967391 >it's sad but not surprising to see the complete lack of nuance in this thread. their is no nuance the elites are unleashing sex perverts onto women and forcing them to be okay with it

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 21:58:15 2022 No.19967871 >>19966171 Everything is a social construct, up to each word you use. The question itself makes no sense.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 22:07:05 2022 No.19967900 >>19967630 Greeks and Romans might have had interesting biological functions. Really makes you think!

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 22:09:25 2022 No.19967909 >>19967900 I'd call you a retard for not understanding me but maybe I explained poorly. I'm feeling lethargic now so I'll just ask you whether Greek women and men dressed differently.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 22:14:08 2022 No.19967927 >>19967909 They didn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 21 22:16:11 2022 No.19967934 File: 245 KB, 467x541, 1644377277132.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19967927 Retard alert!

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:01:59 2022 No.19968377 >>19966171 No. Butler has father issues

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:28:16 2022 No.19968497 >>19966185 Humanity created it's idea of biology, which is the same biology found in textbooks.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:39:50 2022 No.19968528 File: 3 KB, 125x104, cgvd7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:52:40 2022 No.19968562

>>19967630
>No. The "socially constructed" parts like women wearing dresses are still just a culture's approach to the real female biological functions.
Curious what you mean by this. Not disagreeing but what is the relation between dresses and women's biological functions?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:55:18 2022 No.19968573 >>19966171 >judith butler I'm convinced shes some cia psyop to make philosophy look stupid

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:55:45 2022 No.19968575 I can tell nobody in this thread has actually read this book because if they did they'd see that she argues against "social constructivism" in like the first chapter

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 00:56:07 2022 No.19968577 >>19967934 Don't know much about Ancient Greek fashion but my general impression was that both sexes wore togas.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:00:46 2022 No.19968594 File: 225 KB, 1890x1417, 1614144612791.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19968577 >ancient Greece >togas

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:03:06 2022 No.19968600

>>19966171
>Butler argues that feminism made a mistake in trying to make "women" a discrete, ahistorical group with common characteristics. Butler writes that this approach reinforces the binary view of gender relations. Butler believes that feminists should not try to define "women" and they also believe that feminists should "focus on providing an account of how power functions and shapes our understandings of womanhood not only in the society at large but also within the feminist movement."[29] Finally, Butler aims to break the supposed links between sex and gender so that gender and desire can be "flexible, free floating and not caused by other stable factors".
Actually delusional.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:04:28 2022 No.19968603 >>19968594 Like I said I know nothing, I'm not the anon you were talking to. If you have info to the contrary as to what ancient greek fashion looked like by all means share.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:10:29 2022 No.19968621 >>19968600 well, it's what the average zoomer today believes about sex and gender so I guess she was onto something

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:11:04 2022 No.19968623 File: 41 KB, 341x465, e631e285d759e99ac0a27efc2d99fd4e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19968603 I'm just being pendantic. Ancient Romans wore togas. Greeks wore chitons. Women always wore theirs at ankle length.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:18:25 2022 No.19968648 >>19966171 Would you like me to answer in Hungarian, or English? Hungarian: Nem English: No

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 01:41:01 2022 No.19968722

>>19968621
I can understand a naive teen believing this, but it actually blows my mind that anyone as well read as Butler could honestly believe gender is this malleable. Obviously culture shapes a lot but anyone who's read literature or history throughout the ages should be able to see that there are certain enduring patterns to masculinity and femininity.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 02:03:39 2022 No.19968788

No. We construct social trappings around innately generated physical and psychological differences which come from an essential biological sex. Gender is a nonsense term: there is biological sex, and the social expression of biological sex, all of which is on a spectrum of traits between poles of male and female, with strong dimorphism being the ideal. Its not possible to change from one sex to another, and since gender isn't real, transgenderism is pure mental illness with no basis beyond misinterpreted observations about the expression of either sex. The social sciences aren't really sciences, they're liberal arts that implement portions of the scientific method. Dumdums who aren't smart enough to be worthy of a university education, despite being given one, think that because they're called "sciences" and because they incorporate scientific methods, they are objectively scientific. They're not, they're primarily unprovable inferences drawn from raw data, with value that is only subjectively applicable.

Making the leap from "it seems like we do XYZ because of ABC" to "we do XYZ because of ABC" is the worst mistake western civilization has made. The social sciences cannot be used to draw objective conclusions, and while they are excellent methods of inquiry into the subjective inner world, being opened up to the common moron has absolutely ruined them in practice.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 02:24:38 2022 No.19968851

>>19968788
>transgenderism is pure mental illness with no basis beyond misinterpreted observations about the expression of either sex
I agree that the biological underpinnings to gender/sex can't be ignored. That said, what do you make of examples of animals in wildlife pretending to be the opposite gender? https://daily.jstor.org/transgender-proclivities-in-animals/?utm_source=pocket_mylist

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 02:38:49 2022 No.19968895 >>19966948 Golden pathly based

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 02:46:59 2022 No.19968924

>>19968851
>examples of animals in wildlife pretending to be the opposite gender
They're not pretending to be the opposite gender, though. Non-human animals have no concept of gender, because they have no society or sense of self in the way that people do. The author of that jstor article correctly identified those behavioral examples as deceptive sex signaling, but then otherwise conflates sex with gender.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 02:58:18 2022 No.19968951

>>19968924
>deceptive sex signaling
If humans are animals then why can't we read the transgender phenomenon as an example of deceptive sex signaling? I understand that human's intelligence and the complexity of culture make us different to animals, but it would be strange for there to be no parallel at all. I also wonder you say animals have no concept of gender .. how do we know this? It seems like more and more studies highlight similarities between primates and humans, even suggesting that some primates have a kind of culture. I understand that to have a gender identity you need some degree of self-awareness, but at least some primates can show some degree of self-awareness. Tbh I've never really understood the sex v.s gender distinction. If the animal is mimicking the form and behavior of the female to me that is the same as saying it is pretending to be the opposite gender.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 02:58:39 2022 No.19968952 >>19968851 i think the only way you could defend judith butler here is to call her bitch and state her case.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 03:05:03 2022 No.19968977

>>19968851
They're fake and gay.

"Smaller males are at a physical disadvantage in securing mating opportunities. However, by changing their pattern and posture to imitate a female, they can slip unnoticed beneath the gaze of larger males—and then mate with their female partners!"

>translesbians have entered that chat.

Semi joking aside, the article explains it plainly - less powerful males can pretend to be females to acquire dominant male resources without being murdered. They aren't transgender, they're literally pretending to be women to get chicks, they don't think they're women or that they should be women. So, I think it is as described and not an example of transgenderism.

Transmaxxing is natural, who would have thought.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 03:26:28 2022 No.19969049

>>19968977
>They aren't transgender, they're literally pretending to be women to get chicks, they don't think they're women or that they should be women.
That's certainly one explanation. Notably something like 60% of trans women say they're attracted to women. However, I think you're putting too much faith in the distinction between pretend v.s real when the reality is messier. I've read studies that find that the brains of trans women resemble that of women. Now it's suggested that this might be because of hormone replacement treatment, rather than an innate difference (which is to say pre-treatment their brains might've resembled typical male ones). Even if that is true, it still suggests that they become women when they take HRT, which indicates that even if gender is malleable it can be shaped onto a different path in development.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 03:27:28 2022 No.19969052 >>19969049 *biological, not malleable

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 04:04:11 2022 No.19969173

>>19969049
>That's certainly one explanation. Notably something like 60% of trans women say they're attracted to women. However, I think you're putting too much faith in the distinction between pretend v.s real when the reality is messier. I've read studies that find that the brains of trans women resemble that of women. Now it's suggested that this might be because of hormone replacement treatment, rather than an innate difference (which is to say pre-treatment their brains might've resembled typical male ones). Even if that is true, it still suggests that they become women when they take HRT, which indicates that even if gender is malleable it can be shaped onto a different path in development.

Reality in this context is complicated, not messy. I don't mean to be a pedantic dick, but "messy" usually implies a degree of forgivable ambiguity, which doesn't work here.

The most reasonable explanations are that:
1. trans brains show similar activity patterns as female brains because, much like depressed people, brain activity reflects thought processes and emotions, not simply morphological structures.
2. Hormones alter brain activity and limbic system function.
3. Both

Why not congenital? Could be, but it doesn't make sense if gender is a social construct without an essential biological component, and it doesn't make sense for something as complicated as dimorphic archetypes to be inverted on a neurological level. Thats like saying different individuals see different colors when they call something "blue."

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 04:18:31 2022 No.19969214 >>19968951 Dogs procreate with their mothers to have new offspring, should we also imitate them ?

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 04:26:18 2022 No.19969230

>>19969173
> trans brains show similar activity patterns as female brains because, much like depressed people, brain activity reflects thought processes and emotions, not simply morphological structures
I believe the study found that specific parts which are known to be of a certain size among women were the same size when they looked at tran's brains. It didn't refer to activity patterns. I'm not a neuroscientist so I can't really properly explain it or vouch for it.
>. Hormones alter brain activity and limbic system function.
If hormones can so significantly alter your brain, to me that would suggest that gender is malleable. And I don't mean that in the sense of "you can be whatever you want to be" but rather that if you took HRT early on maybe it turns you into the other gender/sex.
>if gender is a social construct without an essential biological component
I don't think it is a social construct. That is Butler not me. My intuition is that most people fall on the binary but for a small percentage weird shit in development changes the trajectory somehow. idk no one really knows

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 04:27:58 2022 No.19969237 >>19969214 Strange strawman I never said anything about imitating non-humans, just that we are in fact animals and that we can draw comparisons between our own and animal behavior.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 04:43:53 2022 No.19969275 >>19966822 >What could possibly justify this madness? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17727356/ Self-selecting groupthink, apophenia, behavioral contagion. Why do you think there have to be a sane reason?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 04:57:48 2022 No.19969301 >>19969173 >it doesn't make sense if money, gods or capitalist corporations are a social construct without an essential biological component

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 05:10:10 2022 No.19969328 >>19967836 >everything I agree with completely is actually capitalism lol fuck off you literal incel freak

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 05:11:51 2022 No.19969334

>>19969301

>>it doesn't make sense if money, gods or capitalist corporations are a social construct without an essential biological component

This is intellectually dishonest to the nth degree. Some things are a social construct, they exist, but gender is as real as a flying unicorn - there is only biological sex, and how that biological sex expresses itself within society. I cant dent there is a spectrum of how sex manifests, socially and physiologically, but I fully deny that gender is anything more than an empty intellectual elaboration. Money is a simulacrum, its purely symbolic. God is irrational, whether or not it exists, so its beyond notions of object/subject or social construction, and corporations only exist as a social construct. My entire point is that gender doesn't exist, and people have conflated it with how sex is expressed in society. Its not a construct, its not performative for its own sake, and its not anything close to transferable. Things like color preference and styles of dress or hair have nothing to do with biological sex.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 05:19:09 2022 No.19969358 >>19966171 something being a social construct doesn't mean it isn't real. for example money is a social construct

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 05:29:08 2022 No.19969379 >>19969328 No he's saying that that everything he agrees with is NOT Capitalism, but of course evil Porky brainwashes chud into thinking it is so that he gets mad at that instead of what actually matters: the fact that Jeff Bezos exists.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 05:29:43 2022 No.19969381

>>19969230
>I believe the study found that specific parts which are known to be of a certain size among women were the same size when they looked at tran's brains. It didn't refer to activity patterns. I'm not a neuroscientist so I can't really properly explain it or vouch for it.

This is a decent summary of current findings:

https://news.usc.edu/158899/transgender-research-usc-brain-gender-identity/

"It’s not always true that your brain structure matches your gender identity, or vice versa. There is no clear consensus in the field."

My take is that the activity differences they see in peoples brains would have simply determined sexual orientation in 99% of the people studied, were it 20 years ago, which is what I meant about the expression of sex being on a spectrum. So far, I'm not finding any primary sources that reveal structural differences in pre HRT users, but, im not it matters.

>If hormones can so significantly alter your brain, to me that would suggest that gender is malleable. And I don't mean that in the sense of "you can be whatever you want to be" but rather that if you took HRT early on maybe it turns you into the other gender/sex.

Fair enough. I don't believe gender exists, only biological sex and the expression of biological sex, so I can't agree but if gender existed, it would be a reasonable thing to consider. I think lived experience from birth+biological sex+body perception are what inform is of our identity, and its not possible to trans more than two of those at a time. I'll call a man a woman when they can change someones chromosomes during infancy.

>I don't think it is a social construct. That is Butler not me. My intuition is that most people fall on the binary but for a small percentage weird shit in development changes the trajectory somehow. idk no one really knows

For sure, i wasn't saying you think that, its just a common enough perspective to address apriori. I agree that a very small number of people have developmental abnormalities that deform their biological sex, maybe some of them are best being transsexuals as a result, but transgender people are just mentally ill people or gays who have been badly enabled/groomed. Look into the history of the term gender and its modern context (start with John Money, the sadistic pedophile who had a fetish for turning little boys into little girls).

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 06:01:25 2022 No.19969438 File: 74 KB, 1024x1000, 1515578557921.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966861 You will never be a woman.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 06:05:49 2022 No.19969447 >>19966185 Yes it did. Sex is a social construct. All categories are arbitrary, your preferences are arbitrary

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 06:11:59 2022 No.19969466

>>19969381
>. I don't believe gender exists, only biological sex and the expression of biological sex, so I can't agree but if gender existed, it would be a reasonable thing to consider. I think lived experience from birth+biological sex+body perception
I think we agree it's mostly just a semantic difference. Personally I've always hated both terms because no one anymore even has a consistent agreement as to what the words even mean. Part of the problem with delineating the two off as separate terms as some radical feminists do is that it gives the false impression that physiological differences are neatly separate from gender expression, the ways in which women v.s men behave or exhibit differences. I think that's wrong because it's patently clear that while there are lots of similarities, there's differences too that are not entirely culturally determinant & are rooted in sex/hormonal differences. E.g men being more aggressive on avg. seems to be universal across cultures.
>developmental abnormalities that deform their biological sex, maybe some of them are best being transsexuals as a result, but transgender people are just mentally ill people or gays who have been badly enabled/groomed.
What makes something abnormal? Humans are weird in general. Even person to person there's such an array of difference, that I wouldn't put much stock in a vague notion of something being abnormal unless it's of obvious detriment to the individual. How do you know it's a deformation of their sex v.s the sexual development just taking a different path? I'd like to know what are the standards which make one particular development a deformation and another normal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 07:58:30 2022 No.19969746 >>19966927 >Why would the left try to distract from class struggle? Western leftists have no interest in class and it has been that way for a while t. western class reductionist

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 08:20:24 2022 No.19969811 you can only pick one: jewdith butler theory of performative gender trans people are literally the sex / gender they transition to, gender roles are rigid and transition is a mental battle

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 08:24:52 2022 No.19969832 >>19969746 why are the stupidpol type of lefties acting like they're some covert underground force. if you actually believe what you stand for fix your shit

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 09:05:40 2022 No.19969956

>>19966171
If you define gender as simply how you feel in your mind and how we precieve our gender roles in society sure. But then since you have a sex which is not changable feeling different in your mind simply means you are unable to accept reality which means you are mentally ill.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 09:22:56 2022 No.19970000 >>19966396 Books on this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 09:24:04 2022 No.19970005 >>19970000 >wasting quads "how to commit suicide" by dr john sneed

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 09:36:36 2022 No.19970046 Why do so many trannies hate the idea that they were most likely socially conditioned into being a tranny when social conditioning is usually their go to answer for everything? Theres like zero proof for the "born wrong" theory

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 10:25:43 2022 No.19970168

>>19970046
Because the whole point is that they are insecure about their identity and then act like becoming a tranny makes them special and helps make them who they really are. If they would admit they were conditioned they would also admit their identity is still as absent as before and all the effort and transforming yourselg into a freak would all have been for nothing. Their fragile mental states couldn't handle that. That is why so many of the people who regret transitioning become suicidal

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 11:25:25 2022 No.19970378 >>19968562 Not that guy but I imagine changing a tampon while wearing jeans is a pain in the fucking ass

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 12:02:40 2022 No.19970505 >>19969447 Wut Im male, thats not a social construct I have an XY chromosome pairing and I naturally want to have sex with women to pass on my genetic material to the next generation no?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 13:40:20 2022 No.19970900 >>19970046 Because leftists are rhetoricians who operate through dissimulation. They always have to portray themselves as oppressed and downtrodden even if some aspects of our culture work in their favor.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 13:45:57 2022 No.19970927

>>19969466
>I think we agree it's mostly just a semantic difference.

I like agreeing.

>What makes something abnormal? Humans are weird in general. Even person to person there's such an array of difference, that I wouldn't put much stock in a vague notion of something being abnormal unless it's of obvious detriment to the individual. How do you know it's a deformation of their sex v.s the sexual development just taking a different path? I'd like to know what are the standards which make one particular development a deformation and another normal.

There's a range of whats normal - a normal xx chromosome person has internal reproductive organs consisting of a vagina, cervix, uterus, and ovaries, with vulva consisting of variably sized labia, a urethra, and a clitoris that is no larger than the smallest healthy penis. All of those standards are based on the range that the majority fall into. These ranges are based in observable, demonstrable things - not only are there functional requirements, but the components of the human body also reflect the golden mean ratio when it is healthy. Lets assign the normal sex characteristics a value of 10-20, someone whos characteristics are a 7 or a 24 may not have any major issues but it will be apparent that they have something unique going on. A person with a 2 or a 40 will have functional issues and most likely, unpleasant aesthetics when compared to the majority, due to asymmetry, such as a 4 inch long clitoris that resembles a penis, or a male urethra that is split and terminates right above the testicles, which can cause infertility, inflammation, mechanical damage, increased risk of cancer, etc., all at rates greater than a standard deviation above what the majority of the population would experience. None of that means those people are bad, i have an extra spinal vertebrae that causes me severe and intermittent back pain but im not a bad or less valuable person because of it, but just like someone with ambiguous genitals, i absolutely have a deformity. Our body evolved (or was created) to operate for its intended purposes by being formed in a certain way, because, that form (or range of forms) is the only one that can accomplish a task in a way that provides a net benefit - this is a fundamental quality of biological life. Think of a wheel. A wheel is required to accomplish certain things within certain parameters, whereas rolling a square end over end would take more effort than is possible to provide.

I think part of the issue is that western civilization is rife with the magical thinking notion "you can be/do anything and you're perfect just like you are," which is a nice thing to hear but is absolutely insane and toxic in how it impacts our ability to quantify and interact with reality; that way of thinking seems to come from postmodern continental philosophy, such as the Frankfurt school and the french existentialists (who shaped the modern discourse on sex)but thats a whole other discussion.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 14:08:43 2022 No.19971026

>>19970927
>I think part of the issue is that western civilization is rife with the magical thinking notion "you can be/do anything and you're perfect just like you are," which is a nice thing to hear but is absolutely insane and toxic in how it impacts our ability to quantify and interact with reality; that way of thinking seems to come from postmodern continental philosophy, such as the Frankfurt school and the french existentialists (who shaped the modern discourse on sex)but thats a whole other discussion.
Yeah seems like it. Ive noticed reading interviews of Butler that a lot of her concepts are just a strange mix of Marxists like althusser and pomo like Derrida. Your description of abnormal v.s normal makes sense to me. I think a lot of pushback from the Butler crowd comes from this philosophical revolt away the aristotelian concept of the ideal functional human and animal. But it seems like in revolt has gone to an opposite extreme to the point of discarding the very concept of normality. I think there was some value in pushing back at that idea when it leads to conforming individuals to a poorly defined norm to their detrimwng, but the wholesale discarding of it is disastrous. As difficult as it is to find a certain basis for our categories, we can and should still try to make some distinctions between what is typical or healthy v.s what is unhealthy or deformed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 19:48:37 2022 No.19972564 >>19970505 The idea of male, chromosomes, sex...etc are things you created. They are tapping into something real but the categories themselves are just pure fiction and can be changed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 19:54:26 2022 No.19972584 >>19966171 Its biosocial. Some species have more than two genders and can transition between them. Others cant. We arent ants or bees.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 19:55:52 2022 No.19972589 >>19970505 That's funny, I don't recall having sex with your mom last night

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 19:59:18 2022 No.19972608 >>19972584 Those are two different conceptions of gender and you know it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:05:56 2022 No.19972629 >>19966861 You will never be a woman.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:10:04 2022 No.19972643 >>19972608 And one is scientifically valid and the other isn't, the fuck is your point?

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:17:39 2022 No.19972675
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>>19972643
>scientifically valid
Do you know what scientifically valid even means? Someone came up with a theory that is compatible with other accepted theories and people ran with it because it was useful.
By this same reasoning, gender theory is also 'scientifically valid'.
You retards with no understanding of the scientific theory are doing more damage to actual science than buzzfeed writers with gender theory degrees with your "lol its in a textbook and its uncontroversial, its objectively real. Trust the Science!" sentiment.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:18:48 2022 No.19972683 What's a social construct?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:19:55 2022 No.19972688 File: 182 KB, 180x506, Screenshot 2022-02-22 at 8.26.34 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19968623 >Women always wore theirs at ankle length Then who's this fag

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:21:20 2022 No.19972698 >>19966171 Post must've gotten deleted. Anyways Jewish Butler is someone who is consumed with envy from the gender (and no its not a construct) who spent their time reaping the benefits of a civilization they did not create

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:27:57 2022 No.19972729 >>19972688 Your mom

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:29:01 2022 No.19972737 >>19966952 This passes some line where he starts to just look like a quirky humorous character instead of a freak. Probably the mustache does it.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:49:09 2022 No.19972820

>>19972683
Something constructed socially (usually through linguistics and belief), usually opposed to something constructed materially (produced by hands or directly by nature).
Since the modern definition of gender is the set of secondary (typically mutable through will) characteristics commonly associated with sex (gendered clothing, mannerisms, sets of interests, etc). Gender is seen to be socially constructed given that it is entirely dependent on culture.
Ever since the term "social construct" appeared in headlines, it has been given a negative connotation since most people can't be asked to do their own research and are insecure about the term 'subjective'. The irony is that most sciences are subjective and indeed social constructs, however most respected sciences are easier to quantify than social sciences given that social sciences are usually harder to verify and replicate without being prone to more biases. Which is why you'll also hear the terms 'soft science' and 'hard science'. Science is a network of theories reliant on trust (the more compatible your theory is with other reputable theories, the more parity is likely to be shown with the real world), yet because people's fathers touch them at night, they think science is objective and undeniable.
There's more characters at play (math autism, depth == good, popularity of Freud and association with humanities, etc.) but my autism is cooling down.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 20:55:04 2022 No.19972844

>>19972564
Yah, that's called having a euclidian 3 dimensional human mind, everything we try to understand is done so through arbitrary labels and explanations. I'm assuming you die on this hill of sex and gender in particular not because you're some big gnostic obsessed with the pitfalls of the human psyche, but because you're some coping tranny with cognitive dissonance.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:14:38 2022 No.19972919 >>19966171 I would like to remind everyone that social constructivism was invented by a Christian fundamentalist to destroy science It's taken a while but it's nice to finally see it's bearing fruit

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:21:17 2022 No.19972955

>>19972919
the ultimate conclusion of social construction is that young earth creationism is just as valid as any other set of ideas and will triumph by simply outbreeding the competition even though the actual inventor was not a yec as far as I'm aware

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:22:40 2022 No.19972964 File: 165 KB, 327x316, 1638033003441.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19966774 they're performing poorly lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:30:48 2022 No.19973018 >>19966774 They would say the idea of passing is a social construct and that the people in whose eyes the trannies don't pass need to reconstruct their own views of gender. This is why transgender teachings preschool is so important to them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:37:55 2022 No.19973049 >>19966185 Yes we did, read Kant pleb

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:37:55 2022 No.19973050

>>19972820
>Something constructed socially (usually through linguistics and belief), usually opposed to something constructed materially (produced by hands or directly by nature).
What is the social, and what is construction? So a house isn't socially constructed, but the statement "All bachelors are single men" is?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:41:01 2022 No.19973064 >>19973050 Social being interpersonal and construction being matter that is manipulated into new forms.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:46:47 2022 No.19973093

>>19973064
All human beings have had relations with at least one other human being, and there is no such thing as a private language, so every single thing a person could ever do, think, or say that involves the manipulation of matter, presumably down to the neuronal level, is socially constructed? So then what isn't socially constructed?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:50:33 2022 No.19973108 >>19966171 You faggots are the ones who will look at a gun pointed at your head and say >The pistols not real it's a social structure! As it passes through your cerebellum out the end of your skull.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 21:51:27 2022 No.19973111 >>19973093 Actions and matter are not socially constructed. Ideas of them are.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:03:23 2022 No.19973143

>>19973111
Ah, so all ideas by all persons, whether of action, matter, or neither (which must include ideas like "2+2=4," naturally) are socially constructed. Now, can you tell me what action and matter of which no one has ever or could ever have an idea is?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:10:21 2022 No.19973181 >>19973143 I do not know of matters or actions which I do not have ideas of. Are you a classical idealist or a coy materialist?

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:13:35 2022 No.19973193

>>19973181
I'm merely trying to find out what isn't socially constructed, because at this rate it doesn't seem anything isn't socially constructed. Which one are you? Action and matter not being socially constructed, and ideas being socially constructed, sounds like it has to be the veneer of either a classical idealist or a coy materialist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:18:15 2022 No.19973215 >>19973193 What is contradictory between "actions and matter are not socially constructed" and "ideas (commonly, unless in a total vacuum between object and single observer) are socially constructed"?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:21:01 2022 No.19973226 >>19973215 There is no contradiction, but there is an incoherent monism that deprives all of its own terms and all human behavior of any recognizable significance.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:23:40 2022 No.19973233

>>19973226
>deprives all of its own terms and all human behavior of any recognizable significance.
How so? Something being labelled a social construction isn't to deprive it of it's influence or proliferation, but to say that it is reliant on culture and not immutable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:34:22 2022 No.19973283 >>19972820 >Gender is seen to be socially constructed given that it is entirely dependent on culture. Do you think the nurturing nature of a mother is a product of culture?

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:37:54 2022 No.19973298

>>19972564
>They are tapping into something real but the categories themselves are just pure fiction and can be changed.
You can play scrabble with the vocab if you want but it doesn't really mean anything. In an alternate universe men could be referred to as Qlorb, but that doesn't mean there isn't a masculine nature that is essentially different from women. I could also choose to call my cat a homo-sapien but that would not in fact make him a human--I would only be changing the designation not the real difference between me and my cat

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:39:02 2022 No.19973303 >>19973283 Mostly yes, part of it is instinct but a lot of it is cultural as well.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:42:50 2022 No.19973320 >>19973303 >that it is reliant on culture and not immutable. Well I'd have to disagree. I think it's mostly instinct. The way in which the nurturing aspect manifests itself differs from culture to culture.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 22:57:17 2022 No.19973372 >>19972675 >>19966396

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:12:37 2022 No.19973425

>>19966396
>>19973372
How does that make gender meaningless? Gender only deals with social and cultural distinctions such as norms. Biological male != Social male.
inb4
>"but there is the meta-biological framework"
The problem being the connotations between biological sex and social gender. While gender is influenced by sex, it is influenced by other factors. I would also argue that the biological implications are overstated in favor of psychological factors such as desire.
I have not seen any gender theorist that denies the physiological implications of the sexual binary.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:29:57 2022 No.19973484 >>19966171 Even if some part of it is, there are propensity of the sexes to behave a certain way because of biological and Psychological predisposition, this have been the case from nearly all society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:31:05 2022 No.19973486 >>19966171 Yes. And only two genders are recognized by my social network: male and female. Any questions?

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:32:10 2022 No.19973492

>>19972675
>Do you know what scientifically valid even means?
Yes.
>Someone came up with a theory that is compatible with other accepted theories and people ran with it because it was useful.
And it isn't that. That's just consistency. Science relates ultimately to Truth. The Truth in regards to human sexual biology is that it is expressed in a non-fluid bipolarity of physical functionalities that underlies a set of contextually-dependent social roles. YWNBAW actually expresses an eidetic rule in that "woman", as a living subject, is is not an object that can be transformed into. Even this transformation is a betrayal of the historico-social framework in which a gendered human emerges.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:35:10 2022 No.19973501

If gender is socially constructed then sexuality is socially constructed. Therefore, one's sexuality is no longer immutable. Social norms could change one's sexuality by changing the definition of gender. This definition is ambiguous and fosters disagreement by its very nature.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:35:54 2022 No.19973504
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>>19966171
YOU WERE NOT THROWN INTO THE WORLD. YOU ARE EMBODIED IN IT. THERE WAS NOT SOME LOTTERY GAME WHERE THE DICE GAVE YOUR SOUL YOUR CURRENT LIFE AND BODY. WHO YOU ARE IS SPECIFICALLY BIOLOGICALLY BORN FROM YOUR PARENTS AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES HANDED DOWN TO YOU FROM THEM AND THEIR ANCESTORS, OF WHICH YOU ARE AN EXTENSION OF. THERE IS NO “SELF” ONLY YOUR BODY. YOU ARE YOUR RACE. YOU ARE XY OR XX UNLESS YOU HAVE A GENETIC DEFORMITY. YOU ARE STILL A MALE EVEN IF YOU CUT YOUR DICK OFF TRANNY. RACISM, SEXISM, HOMOPHOBIA, TRANSPHOBIA, AND ANY OTHER GENERALIZATIONS YOU CAN MAKE BETTER THAN RANDOM PREDICTIONS OF A PERSON FROM ARE ALL FULLY JUSTIFIED. YOUR TRANSHUMANIST FUTURE IS AS FAKE AND GAY AS THE PUSSING GASH IN BETWEEN YOUR LEGS THAT YOU CALL A VAGINA. SEETHE AND COPE

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:43:31 2022 No.19973523

>>19973492
Problem being that woman is being redefined without the need for this "being born into a woman". The cultural connotations of Woman have overpowered bioessentialism. Trannies do not want to have femalebrain, they have AGP and want to wear dresses and use women pronouns. This is no longer a debate but just an autistic definition war.
This then illuminates the problem as merely a memetic culture war and it seems transphobes are losing just as homosexuality has claimed the west.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:48:13 2022 No.19973531 >>19966171 Just because chromosomal and hormonal accidents happen doesn't mean that humans are not a sexually dimorphic species.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:50:23 2022 No.19973540 >>19973531 Rarely if any gender theorist claims that there is no sexual dimorphism. Discussing subjects without reading shit is for faggots, anon.

Anonymous Tue Feb 22 23:55:21 2022 No.19973557
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>>19973523
Then our duty is to safeguard the Truth and the possibility of bringing others to it in the future. Society has always been full of delusions, it will come to pass.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:03:23 2022 No.19973575

>>19973531
Gender theorists are usually more slippery than that. They might pay some lip service to biological sex but they'll use the concept of gender to completely subvert what it means to be a man or a woman. As if we're a free floating, self determining consciousness that was tossed in a body that may or may not suit it's self definition. I dont think we should even use the term 'gender', it concedes too much ground to their insane worldview

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:06:42 2022 No.19973588

>>19973504
>you are your race
which races? where did you find the list of races? in a holy scripture? exactly who counts as "white", "black", etc? What are the rest of the races? It appears as though if you consult historical literature, the attempt to define races is constantly changing. How could it be that you "are" something that is always changing - one could be not-white today, and white tomorrow, yet is still the same person, this makes no sense?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:07:43 2022 No.19973595 >>19973575 >I dont think we should even use the term 'gender', it concedes too much ground to their insane worldview This. Gender is a categorical term. You can turn a tree into a chair. You cannot turn a pear into a tomato.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:08:02 2022 No.19973596
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>>19973575
Funnily enough, go enough left and you'll see people talking about how gender is shit, except they'll call it "oppression". Look up gender abolition and gender accelerationism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:09:28 2022 No.19973600 >>19973588 >you cant perfectly define where a group begins and ends therefore these groups dont exist! You tricky little turd

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:13:36 2022 No.19973612 >>19973588 Sounds like you don't know your roots and are projecting that unto others.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:17:36 2022 No.19973623 >>19973596 How is that funny, surprising, or interesting in the slightest? It's the exact same logic leftists always follow to the same predictable, psychotic conclusion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:17:55 2022 No.19973624 >>19973588 You are retarded for assuming that you can't be something that's changing. You are what you are in the context of the times. >>19973600 And you are retarded for thinking that anon meant those groups don't exist.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:21:57 2022 No.19973642

>>19973425
>I have not seen any gender theorist that denies the physiological implications of the sexual binary.
>Butler argues that feminism made a mistake in trying to make "women" a discrete, ahistorical group with common characteristics.
>Butler aims to break the supposed links between sex and gender so that gender and desire can be "flexible, free floating and not caused by other stable factors". The idea of identity as free and flexible and gender as a performance, not an essence,
Copy and pasted from Butler's wiki page. The whole notion of divorcing gender from sex is to suggest that physiological differences are ultimately subject to whatever the individual chooses, and that most of the differences between men and women are not based in physiology but mere convention. Sounds to me like all but denying the importance of physiological differences, or at the least choosing to ignore them because they don't fit her narrative that you can choose to be whatever you want.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:33:00 2022 No.19973676

>>19973642
>The whole notion of divorcing gender from sex is to suggest that physiological differences are ultimately subject to whatever the individual chooses
How so? Divorcing gender from sex is about reframing gender as the non-physiological differences between the sexes like clothing and etc. I fail to see where Butler aimed to have gender replace sex in terms of physiology.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:37:10 2022 No.19973686

>>19973540
I read a couple of Butler papers in college, they were clever and rigorous enough, but rooted in false premises. There's no need to engage with such arguments on their own terms. That's why conservatives always lose. If we only embraced fascism, Jews like her wouldn't even be here working their socially corrosive agenda.

>>	Coalition of Sneed Wed Feb 23 00:39:47 2022 No.19973692 >>19966861 Hang yourself

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:47:42 2022 No.19973706

>>19973676
>How so? Divorcing gender from sex is about reframing gender as the non-physiological differences between the sexes like clothing and etc. I fail to see where Butler aimed to have gender replace sex in terms of physiology.
You're dampening the truly radical claim she's making by presenting an obvious claim that everyone would agree with. Of course gendered clothing, makeup, etc. has less to do with physiology than culture. Read the quotes. She's claiming that sexual desire, and the category of womanhood have little or no relation to sex. In other words that the very idea of a "woman" is a fiction which has no common characteristics. This is far beyond simply acknowledging the role of culture in producing differences as to what is deemed a female hairstyle or dress; it's basically denying that psychological differences between the sexes have any relation to sex. Much of Butler in general is just the naive sentiment of "just be what you want to be" dressed up in elaborate pretentious academic jargon.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 00:53:03 2022 No.19973721

>>19973706
>She's claiming that sexual desire, and the category of womanhood have little or no relation to sex.
Is she claiming that they have little/no relation or SHOULD have little/no relation? I don't think she was retarded enough to not see how although they are largely shaped by culture, they were also hugely influenced by sexual physiology.
This is also getting into some quantifying-autism of "what was more influencing?" which can probably not be satisfiably determined.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:17:00 2022 No.19973801 >>19972564 >the idea of chromosomes are things you created No they are things that already existed that we observed and assigned names to We didn’t “create” fucking chromosomes

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:17:41 2022 No.19973803 >>19970900 i agree, leftists are sneaky silver tongued devils who operate on a different wavelength than us sensible people. they also scare me and i pee my pants a little.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:21:22 2022 No.19973814

>>19973721
Look, a man of similar ways of thinking visited a science laboratory once, found out that scientists have biases that affect their research and then he...
Claimed that all science is "socially constructed" and that germ theory doesn't real
The vagueness and the lack of clarity between descriptive and prescriptive claims which blend in is on purpose

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:24:37 2022 No.19973821

>>19973721
>she claiming that they have little/no relation or SHOULD have little/no relation?
Seems pretty clear she thinks both. She thinks womanhood is a fiction created by continual daily performance and social reinforcement. I disagree with the notion that gender expression is solely the result of social reinforcement (i.e getting socially rewarded for adhering to prototypical feminine behavior). This can't explain why statistics across so many different cultures reveal common differences between men and women in personality.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:28:17 2022 No.19973833 >>19973821 Also another key fact is that these personality differences are more stark in more developed, egalitarian countries. Which would suggest biological factors are more determinant.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:31:15 2022 No.19973848

>>19973801
There is no such thing as male or chromosomes in the material world. There are a collection of things we decided to call male but that's not set in stone, we can change it. It's our fabrication. You said it yourself we assign them names. That choice is completely arbitrary.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:35:09 2022 No.19973867 >>19966171 Yes, but sex isn't and gender is intrinsically attached to biological sex. If you claim that feminine gender roles aren't clearly the consequence of female biology, you're lying to me.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:35:10 2022 No.19973868

>>19973848
>There are a collection of things we decided to call male but that's not set in stone, we can change it. It's our fabrication. You said it yourself we assign them names. That choice is completely arbitrary.
That's just semantic though. As others have pointed out, you can change the linguistic designation but that doesn't mean there's no real nature to the thing being described.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:37:16 2022 No.19973877 >>19973848 >nothing exists, it's all in your head Now justify human rights. Homophobia is less justifiable than homosexuality. Nihilism doesn't disprove fascism. You can't win this one. If you can do whatever you want because god is dead, so can I.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:38:16 2022 No.19973880 >>19973877 *no less justifiable

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:39:07 2022 No.19973882 >>19973877 Actually, if God is dead then God is perfectly alive and well by that same logic which I'm pretty sure is an actual book Kastrup wrote but then again I only read the back cover

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:40:16 2022 No.19973887

>>19973848
You’re literally just describing the nature of nomenclature
Nomenclature isnt a “fabrication” its assigning words to concepts for the purpose of communicating those concepts to others
Several people have already explained to you how changing words is irrelavant to the discussion, the value behind those words is observable and provable
I am male because of the XY chromosomal pairing
If I was Qlorp because of my bleep-bloop doopty-doop pairing the meaning would still be the same even though the words were changed

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:42:28 2022 No.19973894

>>19973868
No it's a very important distinction. Once you realize categories aren't objective and only exist insofar as they serve some function then they are amenable to change. So when it comes to the gender debate we can change the definition of male to mean whatever we want it to mean.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:42:36 2022 No.19973896 >>19966171 No. /thread

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:43:09 2022 No.19973900

>>19971026
Absolutely. I am very much pro Aristotelian vritue, and we must have powerful ideals to strive for, but our integrity should be regularly tried and squared, lest we become mockeries of what we aim for - which is, now, the norm. It is as important to have standards, disparity, and hierarchy as it is to test those things. I can't help but circle back to my disdain for the social sciences, which have awarded undeserved credibility to people who are just barely smart enough to overestimate their intelligence. Putting something like Rousseau or Sartre in the hands of a mediocre 20 something, who is regularly praised by equally dim professors for parroting idealogical gobbledygook, is a recipe for disaster e.g. queer theory, disambiguated neo marxism, and so on.

Subversion for the sake of subversion works out to be degeneracy disguised as virtue.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:43:33 2022 No.19973901 >>19973894 What if I define racism as good? What if I selectively define words to benefit myself at your expense?

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:44:31 2022 No.19973904

>>19973887
I don't think you understand what he's saying which is not that smart
What he's saying is that there's a theoretical universe in which a different set of phenomena of experience than an X and a Y chromosome were the categories
What if we thought, observing the same natural phenomena, we conceived of 5 categories rather than 2
This is what's claimed to be arbitrary
The problem is that you can only even begin to observe chromosomes in a scientific worldview so that would necessitate these exact categories

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:44:33 2022 No.19973905 >>19973882 How is your god better than mine?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:46:23 2022 No.19973912 >>19973905 By social constructing the social destruction of the people socially constructing your God

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:47:43 2022 No.19973918 >>19973912 What if I socially deconstruct your rights then physically deconstruct your body?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:49:15 2022 No.19973922 >>19973918 I will socially construct an impossible to enter in group that uses nepotism and money lending to socially construct your fiscal enslavement

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:50:13 2022 No.19973924 >>19973922 I will socially deconstruct the "State" of Isr*el and socially construct the State of Palestine in its place.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:51:02 2022 No.19973926 >>19973894 Man you are dense. Imagine theres a dog sitting in front of you. If I change the term, the signifier, and call it human does the dog turn into a human?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:52:34 2022 No.19973937 >>19973924 If social construction real then why don't these fucks socially deconstruct Israel out of existence

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:54:30 2022 No.19973944 >>19973937 Social deconstruction must be followed by physical deconstruction in most cases. Physically deconstruct all whose social constructions conflict with your own.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:55:33 2022 No.19973948

>>19973904
Science doesn't tell you which categories ought to exist. We make the normative choice to say people with an xy chromosome are male because there is some utility in having these categories. There are people that you would consider women in your own arbitrary definition, they have a vagina, tits, whatever, but that otherwise have an xy chromosome. You do that cause again you get some utility out of it. It's not because there is something in nature that tells you, you have to call them women.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:56:59 2022 No.19973953 >>19973948 Explain the evolution of sexual dimorphism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:58:00 2022 No.19973957 >>19973848 Can you arrive at ANY truth if you believe this? Are we all just uttering random sounds that signify nothing?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 01:58:19 2022 No.19973958 >>19973901 That's your prerogative, but i would say it's in your best interest to negotiate with the rest of society.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:03:18 2022 No.19973973 >>19973948 >there are people you would consider women that have vagina, tits, but otherwise have an xy chromosome Um are you sure?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:05:16 2022 No.19973979 >>19973973 Hermaphrodites are real. Trannies aren't. Have you ever heard a deaf and mute tranny?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:05:59 2022 No.19973981 >>19973958 Personally I choose to call best interest "Mouse cum incorporated". Having said that you must now acknowledge that interest is in fact actually mouse cum incorporated. It's in your best mouse cum incorporated to agree with me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:09:37 2022 No.19973990 >>19973981 As the CEO of Mouse Cum Inc., I demand you pay me royalties every time you use the term. Otherwise I will socially contruct your belongings into my belongings.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:09:47 2022 No.19973991

>>19973926
We already do that. We call both dogs and humans animals. Both of them are included in the same category and we can decide to drop the words dog and human.
I think this is actually exactly what happened with the concept of race. We used to split humans into different racial groups but now the accepted conception of race is that it doesn't exist and we are all just humans.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:10:13 2022 No.19973994 >>19973979 Hermaphrodites arent women theyre hermaphrodites lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:10:37 2022 No.19973996 >>19973991 Who decides what is acceptable?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:11:03 2022 No.19973997 >>19973996 Me

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:12:50 2022 No.19974005 >>19973997 No, it's me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:13:09 2022 No.19974006 >>19973991 >We call both dogs and humans animals. Both of them are included in the same category and we can decide to drop the words dog and human. A human is not a dog. Agree or disagree?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:16:29 2022 No.19974016 >>19974005 I am you. . It was decided by decree that all (yous) should be defined out of existence.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:23:45 2022 No.19974035 >>19974016 This, but I am (you) and (you) are me.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:28:20 2022 No.19974044

>>19966183
>>19969447

I hope these anons are trolling but the worrying thing is that there are truly intellectually inferior people that squat in academia who think this makes sense

>Sex is a social construct
>All categories are arbitrary

Kek, then categorizing sex as a social construct is arbitrary. Why should I take you seriously? etc.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:30:43 2022 No.19974049 >>19973991 You just made an incredibly solid argument for racial categorization, kek

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:32:50 2022 No.19974053

>>19973991
>We used to split humans into different racial groups but now the accepted conception of race is that it doesn't exist and we are all just humans.
Who is this "we" and when can I meet them? Joking aside imagine another country invaded your country, stole its resources while imposing their own way of life. Would the invaded country be justified in viewing the invading force as "not them" as a different group? At the end of the day race is just that; another way people describe their feeling of difference to other social and cultural groups. The expression that we are all just human betrays a serious lack of knowledge about history. To give another hypothetical suppose a cult moves in next door to you. They perform, from your perspective, odd rituals and wear clothing different from your own. The cult quickly grows in influence it's compound swelling in size and you begin to feel threatened. In such a situation one could assert that both are "just human" but that ignores the real difference between the two and provides no guide to settle whose norms ought to take precedence in the clash between rival groups.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:34:32 2022 No.19974060 >>19972737 How can anyone hate the hatless monopoly man?

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:34:54 2022 No.19974061

>>19973991
>>19974049
Well no taxonomic categorization has to do with reproductive compatibility
Each species can only reproduce within itself
Dogs of different breeds can reproduce with eachother
And humans of different races can reproduce with eachother
But animals of different species cannot reproduce with one another and produce sexually viable offspring

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:41:22 2022 No.19974073 [DELETED]

>>19974061
Irrelevant, he made a solid argument for racial categorization by making an analogy with dogs and humans and claiming we already chose vagueness in defining groups over recognizing differences. It's not a perfect analogy

>Each species can only reproduce within itself

False

>But animals of different species cannot reproduce with one another and produce sexually viable offspring

Also false, but usually true

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:41:58 2022 No.19974076

>>19974061
>each species...
Species doesn't actually have anything to do with viable offspring. Biologists just tell normalfags that when they need to give an answer. In truth, taxonomy is completely arbitrary. All that matters is that organisms that are more related that others are classified as such. Even that was basically bullshit until the birth of modern genetics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:42:26 2022 No.19974078 >>19974073 Give me an example of interspecies reproduction that produces sexually viable offspring

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:42:45 2022 No.19974080

>>19974061
Irrelevant, he made a solid argument for racial categorization by making an analogy with dogs and humans and claiming we already chose vagueness in defining groups over recognizing differences. It's not a perfect analogy

>Each species can only reproduce within itself

False

>But animals of different species cannot reproduce with one another and produce sexually viable offspring

Also false, it can happen. It is rare though

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:43:19 2022 No.19974084

>>19966171
What a fuckin tard Butler is. Yes gender is decided to some degree by ones environment and to some degree chosen by the will, but those are not the only factors. Nature also has a say, in the sex we are born into and the particular chemistry of our hormones our DNA has blessed or cursed us with. Talking about it is stupid however because men and women have particular roles and obediences not only to society in general but also to their families and to the good. Being a degenerate lust-filled turbobottom/top and spreading disease is objectively bad behavior for society and large and the individuals who participate in those acts and they should not be defended by anyone. Now please stand against the wall.

>>19966179
fpbp

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:43:46 2022 No.19974085 >>19974078 Mules

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:45:05 2022 No.19974091 >>19974085 That's basically the one example that doesn't work.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:45:27 2022 No.19974092 >>19974076 >taxonomy is completely arbitrary What does it even mean?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:46:02 2022 No.19974096 >>19974085 All male mules are sterile So yeah that is a perfect example of what he is saying

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:46:28 2022 No.19974100 >>19974092 Like I said, it's a convenient way of illustrating that two organisms share a common ancestor and are closer related to each other than to other organisms. Everything else is pragmatism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:46:29 2022 No.19974101 >>19974091 Should I refrain from using examples that prove you wrong? Want me to hold your hand too?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:47:29 2022 No.19974103 >>19974101 MULES CANNOT PRODUCE VIABLE OFFSPRING. YOU ARE PROVING HIS POINT. CHOOSE ANY OTHER EXAMPLE.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:47:35 2022 No.19974104 >>19974100 >it's a convenient way of illustrating that two organisms share a common ancestor and are closer related to each other than to other organisms This doesn't sound very arbitrary. It seems there is an objective criteria behind it

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:48:36 2022 No.19974106 >>19974103 >MULES CANNOT PRODUCE VIABLE OFFSPRING. They can. It is just very rare

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:49:13 2022 No.19974111

>>19974104
Ok, I immediately regretted phrasing it that way, but the rule you stated isn't actually true. The only criteria that are set in stone are the ones I stated. "Species", "Genus", etc. are arbitrary and subject to whatever the biologist thinks is most useful.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:52:51 2022 No.19974121

>>19974106
There are other species that might as well be subspecies because they can produce perfectly viable offspring every single time. Ligers for example. It's hard to get examples because it is difficulty in reproducing between groups that creates greater genetic variation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:54:01 2022 No.19974125 >>19974121 Again ligers and tigons are sterile the vast majority of the time

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:56:26 2022 No.19974127

>>19974111
>but the rule you stated isn't actually true.

I am not that anon. I don't know if it applies here but I often encourage people to distinguish beetween something being imprecise and something being made up by human beings(arbitrary). Are you sure you are not confusing the two things? I am not arguing you are confusing them, I genuinely don't know

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:56:53 2022 No.19974130

>>19974125
Not true. The only time it's been tried, it's worked. There's just not a lot of ligers and no real desire to mate them. In nature, there's no reason for tigers and lions to mate. There's one reserve in India that has lions on it and they don't encounter tigers really at all. And of course there are no tigers in Africa.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 02:59:03 2022 No.19974135 >>19974130 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_versus_lion#Coexistence_in_the_Eurasian_wilderness The only times lions and tigers meet in the wild, they tend to fight, so no sex really occurs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 03:00:17 2022 No.19974138 Relativism is self-defeating. Denying the underlying truth below our idea of sex (and "gender") is literal wishful thinking in order to help people in physic pain. Dishonest humanism at its best. >verification not required.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 03:01:26 2022 No.19974139 >>19974130 That is false The vast majority of them do not develop functional sex cells Look up postzygotic reproductive isolating mechanism

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 03:11:27 2022 No.19974155 >>19974125 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liliger

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 03:37:29 2022 No.19974217 >>19974155 >vast majority of the time Even in the extremely rare cases where interspecies reproduction occurs, it inevitably produces a genetic dead end

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 05:30:47 2022 No.19974400

>>19974049
It's totally possible. We can divide people into groups by the number of moles we have on our bodies. The onus is on you to show why we should bother with that, the utility we get out of that.
>>19974061
You fell into the same trap i just untangled you from. Just read Foucault.

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 09:36:52 2022 No.19974992

>>19974400
>no youre wrong but i refuse to explain how, instead you go read 30 books and come back after
No you fucking idiot either refute the point or shut the fuck up
There is socioeconomic purpose to categorizing humans by race, but taxonomy is irrelevant to the discussion

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 10:44:40 2022 No.19975250 >>19974400 Apparently White people have benefited immensely from privileges stemming from the social construct of race. Do you dispute this? If you don't, why shouldn't I perpetuate self-supremacy?

Anonymous Wed Feb 23 11:39:30 2022 No.19975464

>>19974400
>We can divide

You would merely be recognizing the groups that objectively already exists. Same thing with race.

>The onus is on you to show why we should bother with that

What's "that"? Recognizing different groups of phenotyipic traits? Well, first of all, recognizing reality is something most human beings do spontaneously, imho you are the one who should explain why we shouldn't use our minds to recognize obviously different groups of phenotipic traits. It sounds absurd to me. Aside from that, I mean, do you really have to ask why it can be useful to distinguish different phenotipic groups? Do you think there are no differences in, say, intelligence, immune system, etc.? Don't be silly, race is extremely useful

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 23 11:45:18 2022 No.19975494 >>19975464 >race is extremely useful Race as an information, at least

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/lit/ - Literature