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/lit/ - Literature

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19927226 No.19927226 [Reply] [Original]

Anybody else let down by this? It wasn't bad and I learned some neat words, but I found the whole narrative kind of dull. I get that there's deeper layers to it, but i don't see the point in rereading it and combing through every page for obscurities and riddles.

>> No.19927262

>>19927226
Yes. I wouldn't have felt so let down if so much of the books marketing consisted of lies or exaggerations. Also some parts felt very rushed.

>> No.19927271

Not at all. Severian is the most charming protagonist in all genre fiction, I loved having him as the narrator in a way that I've never experienced outside of high literature.

>> No.19927297

>Expecting some grand theological-metaphysical high adventure
>"DUDE! MY SWORD LOOKS LIKE A DICK!"

>> No.19927307

Isn't there a female character with big titties in it? Wolfe was a man of culture in my book.

>> No.19927359

>>19927226
up to the third book now. I'm kind of baffled by how much emphasis everyone puts on Gene Wolfe's Catholic Conservative background. Sure there are moments, such as Vodalus' whole motivation and the monologue in book one about symbols defining us, but all in all the story doesn't strike me as sending a deeply catholic or conservative message It just strikes me as more a story about the nature of subjectivity and perspective. The story of Severian is just one perspective out of the many characters he encounters over the course of the story, which is itself a different perspective, being a quote unquote "translation" by Wolfe himself. It seems to me at this stage, a really in depth character study with some top tier prose, set dressing and mystery. Am I retarded? Does it all come together later in the third or fourth book? Nonetheless, I'm still enjoying myself with it.

>> No.19927366
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19927366

>>19927307
yes

>> No.19927368

For all the talk about Wolfe's prose I find him more gimmicky than anything. Nigga loved to show off and sometimes it flows well but not often enough to justify his reputation.

>> No.19927373

>>19927226
>let down
this is what gene wolf is best at

>> No.19927452

>>19927366
is that supposed to be Jolenta?

>> No.19927531

>>19927366
Ah, yes, the busty redhead. Basically the only element of this masterwork I recall after 10 years. Does Wolfe mention her nipples or areolas in any detail? Seems like some emphatic paps would suit the character.

>> No.19927838
File: 31 KB, 800x532, clawing the concilliator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19927838

>>19927366
I always preferred Agia.

>> No.19928599

>>19927226
I was a bit disappointed after all that hype. I enjoyed reading the books, but sometimes it felt there was no real "meat" or weight in the storytelling. The plot moves along in a very predictable and traditional way, notching plot points one-by-one. Other characters than Severian are pretty hollow, just fulfilling their plot purposes and then discarded.

>> No.19929003

>>19927359
The end of citadel and the entirety of urth really goes into religious stuff

>> No.19929045
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19929045

>>19927359
In the third there's more and in the fourth too but you already had the part with the Noctules and Severian healing the guy through forgiveness. The whole character of Severian trying to overcome his sinfulness and his upbringing as a torturer is something I'd suggest is worthy of mention. Then there's The whole Alzabo soup thing which is practically a false Eucharist. Catholic Culture did a decent podcast about it and the guests are very good but the podcaster himself didn't fully read the series which is why he mistakes the Conciliator for Christ and such. Still would highly encourage you to listen.

https://youtu.be/8ZxArCnJDRk

>> No.19929083

>>19928599
It's a young man's story trying to become worthy beyond the standards of the terrible age he's been born into. I thought BotNS was extremely meaty in the sense that Wolfe captured masculinity so well l. I found Severian to be extremely relatable. In Urth it's less so but Urth has other qualities. Wolfe also has a good understanding of hierarchy, i.e. the rebel leader being a really nasty guy and the Autarch being a good but flawed man. And beyond that with the Cosmic stuff.

>> No.19929090

>>19927838
Worst girl.

>> No.19930316

>>19927226
I love it but it is pretty overrated on /lit/

>> No.19930555

>>19930316
I don't think I agree. It's the best work of fantasy literature right after Tolkien. There's nothing that comes close.

>> No.19931158

>>19927226
doesn't anyone have the chart of best fantasy?
it has this book on it

>> No.19931192

>>19931158
How does that matter? It does appear on /lit/ best of all time lists every year or so.

>> No.19931200
File: 279 KB, 1000x1500, 118292f2882780a708983e5e0f87c494.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19931200

>filtered

>> No.19931204

>>19931192
I want to see the whole chart :3

>> No.19931220

>>19930555
Le Guin?

>> No.19931224

I don't know but I'm uniroincally going to read one of the following next:

BotNS
Tolkien
The Bible

I guess just go straight with The Bible? Any "books" I should skip?

>> No.19931231

>>19931220
>Le Guin
I spit on her. Guess this confirms that it's Godless leftists thinking Wolfe is overrated.

>>19931224
>The Bible
Livelong journey, bud. Start with Tolkien.

>> No.19931237

>>19931231
thanks but wouldn't it make sense to finally read the Bible since so much fiction builds upon / references / nods back to it? and fuck.. I like Le Guin, at least that capatalist - anarchist sci-fi book she did.

>> No.19931258

>>19931237
You can't just straight read the Bible and expect to make sense of it. Tried it myself. You need secondary literature. If you wanna postpone that then atleast something like the Bible in a Year podcast Father Mike Schmitz does. Bible is tough to read, mate. Especially so the first couple of books. Genesis isn't easy but Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are probably gonna make you feel really lost.

>> No.19931259

>>19931237
Le Guin is widely considered one of the few "literary" fantasy authors alongside Wolfe and Tolkien, that anon is just a dumb conservative.

>> No.19931264

>>19931259
>dumb conservative
Thanks for confirming it once more.

>> No.19931265

>>19931224
Make sure the bible you get has Tobit, it's one of the best books

>> No.19931273

>>19931264
Wolfe respected her you know. Get over your politics.

>> No.19931276

>>19931265
He should just get Douay Rheims. KJV won't do.

>> No.19931288

>>19931273
Wolfe was a nice guy than I am and known for being able to befriend almost anyone. I disrespect her and more so you.

>> No.19931327

Gene Wolfe is a chud and his fans are polcels who will never have sex

>> No.19931336

>>19931327
>Gene Wolfe was a chad and his fans are handsome lads who will have beautiful wives and lots of children
ftfy

>> No.19931350

>>19931258
>secondary literature
my buddy gave me a copy of the Oxford Study Bible and I am hoping / assuming that this has enough "external" "academic" context for me.

>> No.19931363

>>19931350
From what I've seen it's not bad but I'd still recommend you to atleast take a look at the Bible in a Year podcast in addition.

>> No.19931368

>>19931288
What do you think of Harold Bloom?

>> No.19931389

>>19931368
No real opinion beyond him seemingly having been a heretic.

>> No.19931398

>>19931389
Cut the seemingly. He pretty obviously was. I try to be careful with such accusations and since I don't know much about him but from all I've seen he clearly was a heretic.

>> No.19931399

But have you read John C. Wright?

>> No.19931404

>>19931399
If you're asking me I haven't. Doesn't look entirely uninteresting.

>> No.19931418

>>19931404
Start with Awake in the Nightland. I bring this up because I consider him the spiritual successor to Wolfe, and he's a fantastic sci/fantasy writer. They were actually good friends irl if I remember correctly.

>> No.19931439

>>19931418
Thanks. Put it on the list.

>> No.19932196

Haven't read this but The wizard knight is probably the worst book I've ever read

>> No.19932233

>>19932196
>filtered

>> No.19932299

>>19932233
Filtered by what? The prose is simplistic and boring, there is no coherent structure to the story, he keeps jumping from one point to another. If the point is to write a dream, that's fine but that doesn't make it interesting or worth reading. The characters have no depth, the main character is literally 12 and a little shit. There are two women with their titties out who act like women from a hentai. Absolutely no payoff. It's just A happened, then B happened, then C happened... there is not even an attempt to describe the environment so it is not even slightly evocative. 70% of the book is bad dialogue.

>> No.19932616

I just finished Shadow of the Torturer, and I have conflicting feelings about it. I enjoyed the prose and the story overall, but I didn’t like how a majority of the book was focused around the duel which ended up being mostly pointless.

>> No.19932726

botns and blood meridian are the /v/ of literature

>> No.19932731
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19932731

itt

>> No.19932732

>>19929045
Thanks, I'll check it out when I finish BotNS, and you have put it in a light that makes sense. I could see the portrayal of Severian as a holy man through his capacity to use the claw to resurrect and tame animals and stuff, but I never even thought about him healing the guy from the noctules through forgiveness. I think I realise now that I'm gonna need to reread this one to truly "get it".

>> No.19933917

>>19932732
Just keep going with the series.

>> No.19934062

i enjoyed it due to some of the most genuinely alien feeling of the world building. it's like Morrowind in that sense. There is also a lot more straight up comedy in shadow than you would imagine, some of the scenes coming off straight out of ren and stimpy or looney toons.

>> No.19934319

It’s as good as high fantasy can get. It’s just that high fantasy is fairly shit as a genre

>> No.19934649

>>19934319
It's not high fantasy. Why can't idiots just keep their dumb takes to themselves?