Cautionary tales for kids are stupid

[Anonymous No.19922492]

These stories are still seen as something inherently distant and detached from reality. You can read a bunch of Brothers Grimm tales about people getting maimed and mutilated, and then still get upset and angry when some kid on the playground calls you a faggot.
The full context of why these things happen is hard for a kid to comprehend, yes. You can have a vague understanding of "some people have so much big sad they don't want to live anymore" but you won't truly understand how it feels if you never experience depression yourself.
Even if you acknowledge this concept as a kid, that doesn't mean you won't grow up into yet another NPC who fundamentally misunderstands depression and preaches about how "it's all in your head bro". If a teenage girl reads a hundred YA dystopias about the evil government killing and torturing its helpless citizens in cruel ways, she's not gonna get a comprehensive understanding of how governments like this are actually formed, how they realistically rise to power, or how governments work in general. Works like this are not going to make her a better, smarter person, they're not going to make her more prepared to become a politician and change the society in productive ways herself. All they are going to do is pander to the feeling of rebellious youthful maximalism. It's retarded, and unnecessary. Kids will find out about this stuff one way or another. No matter how overly dark and edgy they are, they are worthless in actually preparing one for the complexities of the real world. My argument is that reading simplified tales is not enough, because they provide the highly simplified version of the world that only focuses on the exciting and thrilling elements, instead of the technicalities of the more boring mundane stuff that is actually likely to make up the vast majority of your everyday life. I dare anyone to try and refute that.

[Anonymous No.19922583]

Realistically, a person should only need a single book to understand that. Why would they need 99 more? And besides, if they are actually gonna do any work to change the society for the better in the future instead of being just another worthless helpless mourner, they should do quite a lot more than read power fantasy schlock.

[Anonymous No.19922588]

>>19922492
Hans' The Little Mermaid is an excellent book for kids and adults alike though.

[Anonymous No.19922597]

>>19922588
Reading the little mermaid or any other cautionary or edgy tales won't prepare them for the real world or help them grow up adjusted and mature. And if you concede that you can still be mature and be a failure in life, than being emotionally mature isn't an inherent good.

[Anonymous No.19922607]

>>19922588
It can teach people the most basic things. It's not going to teach them the boring logistical details that are, surprise, the most important fucking thing when actually getting any real life applicable job done?

[Anonymous No.19922610]

>wall of text OP
>ctrl+f "Aesop"
>no result
Only idiots don't start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.19922640]

>>19922597
You've said a lot and decorated it with irrelevant nonsense.
I will focus on your last 3 points, namely: simplified cautionary tales don't prepare children for the adult world, teach children the mundane but important tasks that make up everyday life and that being emotionally mature isn't necessarily good.
Here are my counter-arguments:
1. Good luck trying to get your 10 year old kid to understand the complexities and nuances of politics and everything else you've mentioned. Simplification also serves another purpose. It ensures the underlying message is conveyed correctly, which even adults get confused.
2. A child will eventually become 12-13 years old and will be exposed to the full brunt of mundane boring but important tasks till they die. They are already being taught how to deal with professional life, accounting, hierarchy, etc. indirectly through their labor and punishment. Why not grant them a fantastic respite in the form of fairy tales that can also possibly teach them some important life lessons? If, on the other hand, your argument is to directly teach kids how to do their taxes because the quadratic formula is useless in adult life, then my response is that the parents can provide that education. The parents can fill in the gaps.
3. Nothing can be deemed as "inherently" good or bad because we are making a metaphysical statement that is impossible to verify. As far as effects of being emotionally mature are concerned, emotional maturity usually leads to effectiveness in whatever little way possible, unlike the haphazard attempts at success of the emotionally infantile person. Plenty of adults and even old people behave in this infantile manner now. And people like yourself use this as the baseline for human behavior and psychology. And conclude that emotional maturity is unnecessary. But look around you. Everyone is losing their minds over some irrelevant thing, fixating on irrelevant things, compulsively pursuing even harmful activities. So no, emotional maturity is very much important.
I do concede that cautionary tales don't guarantee future success. But then even teaching a child details of mundane tasks don't guarantee success. So your point is lost.

[Anonymous No.19922688]

>>19922640
Engaging in dark fiction is still escapism. For an average person, there are mundane things much scarier in life than the distant horrors of dark fiction. Watching someone get dismembered on-screen is easier than having to struggle with a job you hate. It does not make you a more "mature" person, you can still end up a fucking failure no matter how much dark fiction you consume.
2. Realistically, a person should only need a single book to understand that. Why would they need 99 more? And besides, if they are actually gonan do any work to change the society for the better in the future instead of being just another worthless helpless mourner, they should do quite a lot more than read power fantasy schlock.

[Anonymous No.19922700]

>>19922688
Yeah not going to bother.
You dont even have a clear coherent argument, just a mish mash of your personal feelings.
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.19922702]

>>19922640
>A child will eventually become 12-13 years old and will be exposed to the full brunt of mundane boring but important tasks till they die
Those are extremely obvious things that most people already understand. Stop trying to act like these are some unknown wisdoms. There are much more complicated things in the world to understand that that, like how to actually prevent the creation of people who seek out to mutilate other people.

[Anonymous No.19922706]

>>19922700
Lol. Seethe.

[Anonymous No.19922717]

>>19922700
Read
>My argument is that reading simplified tales is not enough, because they provide the highly simplified version of the world that only focuses on the exciting and thrilling elements, instead of the technicalities of the more boring mundane stuff that is actually likely to make up the vast majority of your everyday life. I dare anyone to try and refute that.

[Anonymous No.19922867]

>>19922700
I have provided questions that most people won't ever ask you. You're the one who keeps spouting nothing but cliches about how "dark fairy tales are crucial to a child's development" even though there dozens of much more crucial things that people just gloss over because those things are boring, mundane and don't give them a dopamine rush from experiencing strong emotion. You speak as if you have control over whether this happens or not. No amount of children's programming is going to prepare your child if that dark stuff actually happens, you do realize that, right?

[Anonymous No.19923134]

>>19922640
>Good luck trying to get your 10 year old kid to understand the complexities and nuances of politics and everything else you've mentioned.
Which is why it's pointless to try. It's better that they learn from IRL stuff.

[Anonymous No.19923175]

>>19922640
>As far as effects of being emotionally mature are concerned, emotional maturity usually leads to effectiveness in whatever little way possible, unlike the haphazard attempts at success of the emotionally infantile person. Plenty of adults and even old people behave in this infantile manner now. And people like yourself use this as the baseline for human behavior and psychology. And conclude that emotional maturity is unnecessary. But look around you. Everyone is losing their minds over some irrelevant thing, fixating on irrelevant things, compulsively pursuing even harmful activities. So no, emotional maturity is very much important.
>I do concede that cautionary tales don't guarantee future success. But then even teaching a child details of mundane tasks don't guarantee success. So your point is lost.
And reading cautionary tales to children has no affect on whether or not they become smarter, more mature, or more mentally healthy. So no.

[Anonymous No.19923185]

>>19922492
How would you teach your kid to be a well adjusted individual? Genuinely asking, personally I'd get all the heavy topics like death and crime out of the way so they don't get hung up on it

[Anonymous No.19923198]

>>19923185
No, not really. Simplified fairy tales will only teach them the basics, which, again, can be learned via other means, especially, in the age of the internet. In what way? It doesn't give you more of a solid understanding of the way the world works, just "wow there sure is some fucked up shit". That is not enough.

[Anonymous No.19923201]

>>19923185
Probably try to have a good grasp on what actually interests them in life so that they don't struggle when they inevitably have to choose a field of work and don't have to settle for something they're not passionate about like most of us NPCs do. In a way, spending a lot of time dwelling in fictional worlds and escapist fantasies is actually harmful, as the only ways in which it "prepares them for life" is by introducing a bunch of concepts to them they're not going to fully comprehend until years or decades later.

[Anonymous No.19923244]

>>19922492
If you aren't a literal NPC you'll have a realization hit you later in life that your parents were right and that metaphors hidden in amusing fairy tales are depressingly relevant to any man seeking to discover himself or leave his mark on the world. Also start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.19923262]

>>19923244
You keep making up strawmen. The darker themes are fine, it's your insistance on cult-like devotion to them that I dislike. Being obsessed with dark stories is not much different from being obsessed with power fantasies. You're engaging in escapism either way. You're wasting time by projecting your problems onto works of fiction that have nothing to do with them. People problems are highly individual things, you're not going to find solutions to those in corporate products made to entertain. If you have problems, you should seek therapy or study psychology yourself, not project yourself onto a worthless cannon fodder horror movie protagonist. Unless you're willing to give more specific, meaningful examples of dealing with your problems through fiction.

[Anonymous No.19923287]

>>19923244
What if I told you I experienced these works as a kid but that (somehow!) didn't help me with the many flaws I discovered in my personality as I was growing up?

[Anonymous No.19923543]

>>19923244
How exciting emotional-driven things in life that give you a dopamine rush like "epic dark fiction" are not as important as figuring out your place, personality and interests in life and becoming an actual functioning person.

[Anonymous No.19923967]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19924127]

>>19922700
Japanese children kill themselves all the time and their culture is embedded with edgy shit. Why aren't they better prepared for life? The concepts you're talking about are so ingrained in culture that they're going to find out one way or another?

[Anonymous No.19924712]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19925153]

>>19923244
Cope

[Anonymous No.19925165]

>>19922492
T. Kid whose parents didn't read to them

[Anonymous No.19925205]

>>19922583
>reading simplified tales is not enough
True, but it as never intended to be enough. That's why education is supposed to consist of more than just fairy tales.
Also, you said earlier, "Works like this are not going to make her a better, smarter person," which is, first of all, a different argument than the one you declare a few sentences later, and second is not even remotely true. Mythology (when it's successful) teaches you to interact with the world in a profitable way. If the mythology in question is functional, and so is the mind absorbing it, then it works; that's why it exists in the first place, because it works.

You basically argue that fairy tales are useless because a stupid person might not get anything from it, then you move goalposts to something equally retarded.

0/10

[Anonymous No.19925210]

>>19925205
Meant for Original Phaggot (op)
>>19922492

[Anonymous No.19925304]

>>19925205
>True, but it as never intended to be enough.
Then why do it to begin with?

[Anonymous No.19925309]

>>19922492
>>19922717
>>19923262
>>19923543
What are you trying to get at then? Let kids grow up coddled westoid NPCs completely unprepared to deal with reality? Or some other way to teach them about shit ahead of time?

>>19922688
>Engaging in dark fiction is still escapism. For an average person, there are mundane things much scarier in life than the distant horrors of dark fiction. Watching someone get dismembered on-screen is easier than having to struggle with a job you hate.
You're too hung up on shitty dark fiction like horror movies. A good dark story has characters with depth and realism, who you can see parts of yourself in, and focuses on both mundane and exceptional problems and not just out-there action shit like characters dying every 5 seconds or monsters or whatever

>but it doesn't guarantee success
Nothing does. Might as well max out your odds

[Anonymous No.19925424]

>>19925309
Again, not necessarily. I said it already: you can grow up with a love for dark fiction and still end up a fucking failure with no life goals. How do you refute that?
The stuff you're talking about is extremely niche stuff that only has value for a very limited amount of people who can relate to what it expresses. If this is the kind of stuff you were talking about then you're stupid for not being able to understand why most people aren't fans of it

[Anonymous No.19925667]

>>19925309
Because not a single piece of fiction has ever made me feel the kind of dread some real life things has made me feel. I imagine it's the same for the majority of people

[Anonymous No.19926069]

>>19922492
You should go back to that thread from the other day and look at that one anon's response to you. He gave you a great response but it was ignored.

[Anonymous No.19926291]

>>19926069
>Muh gift for a good life
Is all that post amounted to.

[Anonymous No.19927808]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19927815]

>>19925309
it's about forming a comprehensive understanding of real world concepts that is impossible to do through the realm of simplified emotion-driven fiction alone.

[Anonymous No.19927823]

>>19922492
>reading simplified tales is not enough, because they provide the highly simplified version of the world
Most people interpret stories as literal fact rather than metaphorical. Especially in religion and mythology.

What do you suppose we do? Seems like a problem with humanity

[Anonymous No.19927874]

>>19927823
>He's now having to dodge
I also noticed that nobody actually gave a response to these.
>>19922607
>>19923198
>>19923201

[Anonymous No.19928505]

Bump