Philosophy of love

[Anonymous No.19915223]

Do some people go their entire lives without ever experiencing romantic love? Is it a one and done deal, as in you’ll never love as deeply as you did the first time? Philosophy or maybe even psychology on chasing the dragon (never being as fulfilled as the first time) when it comes to love? Fuck it— philosophy of love in general

[Anonymous No.19915229]

Nah, this is my fourth time falling in love and it's the last three times a thousand. Maybe its my first time and the last three were somethin else. In any case, read Love by Stendhal. Beautiful book. You'll be crystallised soon bro. Were all gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.19915237]

>>19915223
>Is it a one and done deal, as in you’ll never love as deeply as you did the first time?
No, that's bullshit and honestly a very womanish mindset.

[Anonymous No.19915260]

"He was still too young to know that the heart's memory eliminates the bad and magnifies the good, and that thanks to this artifice we manage to endure the burden of the past.”

― Gabriel García Márquez, Love in the Time of Cholera

[Anonymous No.19915265]

>>19915260
God I love marquez. I learned spanish just to reread him and neruda.

[Anonymous No.19915276]

>>19915260
Holy shit thank you

[Anonymous No.19915288]

>>19915229
Last three times times a thousand that sounds heavenly
Thanks for the rec

[Anonymous No.19915293]

>>19915229
>>19915260
We're going to make it, frens.
Will check out Stendhal. Looks interesting.

[Anonymous No.19915313]

>>19915223
Romantic love is literally a myth. The word comes from the Romantics, who were originally called that because they were inspired by Roman myth and literature. What we now call Romantic is a commercialized representation of what we suppose the Romantics were doing when they were pretending to restore Roman mythological ideals. A third-rate pastiche of a second-hand culture. It doesn't exist and it never did.

[Anonymous No.19915327]

>>19915313
That's one way to look at it, in which case I recommend Hegel's Philosophy of Right, where there's ethical duty in love, in order to constitute civil society by creating component families.

I think I'll stick to my humanistic conception of it, but thanks anyways.

[Anonymous No.19915342]

>>19915293
An important question to ask yourself is "Am i dilluting my true self?". If the answer is yes, then you are unable to find a soulmate due to your facade.
>>19915313
Nah. It exists. The only lie is "forever". Everything ends. The only true Gid is ephemerality. And thats beautiful. Impermenance is the source of all inspiration.

[Anonymous No.19915346]

>>19915260
>tfw shitty heart that forgets any good and wakes you up at night with the worst shit that happened and how it’s your fault

[Anonymous No.19915372]

>>19915342
I guarantee you don't visit cemeteries to weep at the ephemeral beauty of it all. You're afraid of suffering.

[Anonymous No.19915375]

>>19915327
Love exists. Romantic love does not.

[Anonymous No.19915394]

>>19915260
Barthes and Fromm are hack.
read Stendhal On Love and The Natural History of Love by Morton Hunt

[Anonymous No.19915403]

>>19915313
What *is* romantic love

[Anonymous No.19915406]

>>19915372
Suffering is good. I've suffered a great amount and I take great joy in being able to express it through writing.

Suffering is a constant. You may as well accuse someone of being incapable of existence.

[Anonymous No.19915425]

>>19915394
Great recs anon.

[Anonymous No.19915436]

>>19915372
Not him but visiting an old cemetery regularly has completely changed me.

[Anonymous No.19915489]

>>19915223
>love as deeply as you did the first tim
That isn't actual love. That's infatuation. Love is being there for someone when it's no fun anymore because you care more about them than yourself.

[Anonymous No.19915494]

>>19915436
Reading at the cemetary is so relaxing.

[Anonymous No.19915497]

>>19915229
You look like a great person anon, I want to be your friend.

[Anonymous No.19915508]

>>19915497
You are my friend. Love you bro.

[Anonymous No.19915563]

>>19915342
>>An important question to ask yourself is "Am i dilluting my true self?". If the answer is yes, then you are unable to find a soulmate due to your facade
>tfw I've been diluting my true self for so long that I've forgotten who I even am

[Anonymous No.19915572]

>>19915563
Well let's figure it out anon. I've been there. It's a normal part of the human experience. Let's start with the surface level stuff.

What are some niche interests that you are or were ashamed of?

[Anonymous No.19915586]

>>19915563
No one really knows what they like desu. You may think you like X, but when Y comes along you like it too. I find myself liking almost everything after a while. Idk if that’s a good or bad thing, but when people tell me to be my “true self” I become an asshole and the I feel bad for everybody and then I leave.

[Anonymous No.19915592]

>>19915342
>An important question to ask yourself is "Am i dilluting my true self?"
How do I find the answer to this question? What is my true self?

[Anonymous No.19915595]

>>19915586
Are you really an "asshole", or simply surrounded by people that cannot understand you?

[Anonymous No.19915601]

>>19915592
Well let's start here >>19915572
And we can fugure it out together, or at least make some headway.

[Anonymous No.19915618]

>>19915595
I’m pretty sure I’m an asshole, because for a moment being haughty, cynical and straight shooting feels very very nice. When I realize that the consequences of tearing down peoples facades is very traumatic and causes net harm, I feel pretty bad. But the fleeting pleasure of shocking somebody by telling them the truth is addicting.

[Anonymous No.19915620]

>>19915223
>Do some people go their entire lives without ever experiencing romantic love
Yes. I'm one of them

[Anonymous No.19915668]

>>19915618
Anon those all sound like great qualities to me. It's nice that you care about hurting other peoples feelings but at the same time realise that your cynicism and bluntness would be admirable traits around others. I find those traits admirable. It saves time, and politeness detracts from interesting discussion.

Find your crowd then let loose. You've got this

[Anonymous No.19915683]

>>19915668
kinda cringe

[Anonymous No.19915688]

>>19915668
Thanks for being supportive. I imagine you liked Bazarov from Fathers and Sons?

[Anonymous No.19915690]

>>19915683
Hey, maybe you're right.

[Anonymous No.19915705]

>>19915688
Tbh I haven't read any Tuganov (is that how you spell it) yet, but my friends keeps pushing them on me so I will soon.

I'm only talking from my own life experience of being around people I can be blunt with, argue for hours and then leave better friends afterwards. Arguing is great when you're around people that aren't fragile.

[Anonymous No.19915721]

>>19915572
>What are some niche interests that you are or were ashamed of?
The earliest I remember actively hiding my interests was when I was like 10. I never wanted to show my friends the youtubers I was a fan of out of fear that they wouldn't find them funny, which I guess would have meant to me that I was lame.
It evolved from there into me freezing up whenever people would ask what music I was listening to or what book I was reading because I was afraid of sounding autistic trying to explain it, so I eventually started dodging those questions altogether. Doesn't help that I got into 4chan at like 13, which immediately made me feel set apart from everyone else back then.
Now, I'm pretty extroverted, but I feel like that's because I learned to mold my mannerisms and personality in a way that lets me carry conversations with other people well. If they actually tried to learn about me I wouldn't know what to say to them.

To actually answer the question, I listen to a lot of music, mainly punk and indie rock, and I enjoy going on random internet rabbit holes to find obscure books / films / whatever. I don't know if I'd consider those personality traits though.

[Anonymous No.19915747]

>>19915721
I really relate to your early experience. I started browsing 4chan when I was 11. I really feel that fear of worrying about a video/song that really resonates with you being the fulcrum point for losing social credit.

>and I enjoy going on random internet rabbit holes to find obscure books / films / whatever.

What are your latest finds anon?

>I don't know if I'd consider those personality traits though.

They're not. This is just a reference point.

[Anonymous No.19915748]

>>19915572
>>19915601
that's a funny question. honestly I have no interest that I am ashamed of, and in fact I probably take pride into being interested in a lot of things, from programming to philosophy, insects, drawing, ect.
There are certainly part of myself that I am ashamed of and/or would never admit to anyone except a therapist, but I wouldn't call those interest (e.g. not being at ease socially, oscillating between thinking "people" at large are morons and thinking that I am a freak and a failure for feeling so estranged from people).

[Anonymous No.19915755]

>>19915690
maybe I am. thanks.

[Anonymous No.19915757]

>>19915748
I'm also very into insects. I was actually just listening to an entymology lecture on iridescence.

>not being at ease socially

How would you descrube this feeling? Or to be less vague, what are you thinking about during these social interractions and has that anxiety ever manifested in tangible consequence?

[Anonymous No.19915760]

>>19915755
All good, have an incredible day.

[Anonymous No.19915808]

>>19915757
>I was actually just listening to an entymology lecture on iridescence.
sounds cool. do you have a link?

>How would you descrube this feeling?
I feel self-conscious and awkward. My body/posture feels out of place, like i'm wearing something that just doesn't fit. Same for my facial expressions. Basically I feel like I'm performing every "natural" process of socializing manually, instead of effortlessly and semi-consciously like breathing.
I always feels like this even with my family, even my mom and sister. It feel weird and awkward to hug, like i'm a tree stump. Most of the time I find talking with people pretty boring and formulaic, and I blame myself for not being a better conversationalist.

>has that anxiety ever manifested in tangible consequence?
I think people just picks it up on my general clumsiness. Some don't really care or might even find it cute/interesting, others (most, i guess) find it uncomfortable.
Once a girl I really liked at university came close to me and kinda waited for me to speak to her, I had kind of a panic attack and rushed away (I never spoke to her and still think about it).

[Anonymous No.19915840]

>>19915747
>What are your latest finds anon?
I was listening to Brian Eno's "Taking Tiger Mountain" and decided to figure out what the title referenced, which led me to both the original Chinese story that it was based on and this odd experimental film from the 80s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_Tiger_Mountain_(film).. The former also led to me finding a list of a bunch of films that were banned in China throughout the 1900s, some of which seem pretty interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_censorship_in_China
I also had a phase where I'd try to find random websites, and I came across some weird stuff by doing that http://blackhole.net/ http://www.deadman.org/

[Anonymous No.19915859]

>>19915260
Reddit feel-good.

[Anonymous No.19915881]

>>19915808
Heres the lecture
>https://youtu.be/wJa3rVYvR9c

[Anonymous No.19915888]

>>19915223
I've never felt any romantic love for anyone. Most likely never will.

[Anonymous No.19915901]

>>19915808
>I feel self-conscious and awkward. My body/posture feels out of place, like i'm wearing something that just doesn't fit. Same for my facial expressions. Basically I feel like I'm performing every "natural" process of socializing manually, instead of effortlessly and semi-consciously like breathing.
I always feels like this even with my family, even my mom and sister. It feel weird and awkward to hug, like i'm a tree stump.

That sounds really difficult anon. I'm sorry you're going through that. I can only imagine it feels like you're a strabger in your own body. I think I've similarly in a myriad of social interractions. Like everyone knows where to put their hands except for me.

>Most of the time I find talking with people pretty boring and formulaic, and I blame myself for not being a better conversationalist.

Honestly, and this is just my personal experience. But vocalising everything you've just described unabashedly, as scary as it is, taps into the deep part of peoples humour and you'll be oresebtly surprised to find a lot of people saying "same"

Like if you said:
>It feels weird and awkward to hug, like i'm a tree stump.

At a party, then everyone would admire your honesty and courage. And then it would become a whole conversation. I think that's what being a good conversationalist is. It's taking those anxieties and vocalising them and then just letting it unfold. What's the worst that could happen? That isn't rhetorical, sincerley answer that.

[Anonymous No.19915910]

>>19915840
This is all incredibly fascinating man. If someone brought this up in a social interraction it would be a breath of fresh air amongst all of the small talk and pleasantries.

Who wouldn't want to talk about banned films?

Who doesn't find strange websites intriguing?

Nobody that I would wnat to talk to. I'm going to read through these articles right now, and then go down those rabbit holes.Thank you for this.

[Anonymous No.19915931]

It's just chemicals in the brain. Break the cycle, focus on science.

[Anonymous No.19915938]

>>19915931
I hate http://www.reddit.com/#

[Anonymous No.19915948]

>>19915910
Imagine the fact that there are people out there for whom personal freedom is not a fundamental value.

[Anonymous No.19916004]

>>19915948
Sometimes that value is stunted by others, without you even noticing.

[Anonymous No.19916160]

>>19915901
>And then it would become a whole conversation. I think that's what being a good conversationalist is. It's taking those anxieties and vocalising them and then just letting it unfold. What's the worst that could happen?
I agree, I think the trouble is that I just don't know how to reveal my idiosyncrasies while following social etiquette, especially as a lot of my energy is already spent (perhaps wrongly) to seems "normal". I suspect quite a lot of people feels like that and sometimes I feel deeply melancholic at the thought that everyone would like to reach out and have more meaningful interactions, but are held back by our current social protocol, a tradition that no one support or enjoy but keep existing by sheer inertia. it's as if we are sitting in front of a plate full of food but are starving ourselves to death because we don't know what fork to pick up.

[Anonymous No.19916168]

>>19916160
The answer is fuck social etiquette. That's why it will be seen as courageous, because you've thrown a bowling ball into another lane and gotten a strike.

This
>it's as if we are sitting in front of a plate full of food but are starving ourselves to death because we don't know what fork to pick up.

Is beautiful btw. Write that shit down somewhere and save it for later.

[Anonymous No.19917029]

>>19915881
thanks! will watch later

>>19916168
>The answer is fuck social etiquette. That's why it will be seen as courageous, because you've thrown a bowling ball into another lane and gotten a strike.
I feel that to be truly at ease with other people I would have to define some guiding principles that I can stick with to decide how to act. Right now I (I think like most people) have lazily avoided doing that and instead chosen to stick to whatever looks "normal", which results in always feeling estranged from myself and other. I don't think just dumping whatever is on my mind is desirable, but there is a fine balance to achieve between spontaneously expressing yourself (your thoughts/needs/feelings etc.) and taking into account other people need. Right now i don't know how to do that, but I should give it some thought.
I wish I could find some good, practical philosophical works on the general subject of being with others. (i've been reading Plato's dialogues and there's a couples on friendship that might be of use)

[Anonymous No.19917072]

>>19915223
Compulsively chasing the warm cuddly feeling of being in love leads you into becoming a slut if you are successful and a *cel if you aren't.

[Anonymous No.19917080]

>>19915260
Very nice but not sure if I agree with this, when I think back to my ex all I remember is the bad

[Anonymous No.19918172]

>>19915888
gonna dismiss this as bullshit but it is genuinely because you don't love yourself/consider yourself worthy of love.
Finding someone begins with the conception that you have a value to offer in a relationship and from there meeting someone and falling in love manifests out of it.

[Anonymous No.19918213]

>tfw my constant shilling of Stendhal's Love is paying off

[Anonymous No.19918318]

>>19915563
>true self
Read Jung.

[Anonymous No.19918333]

>>19918172
I've been a recluse my entire life. My family let me play on the computer all day, every day as a child. Now I still never leave the house because I still live with my parents, and they go to the store to buy things while I stay home on the computer all day, every day.

[Anonymous No.19918378]

>>19915342
>my true self
Doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.19918382]

>>19918378
Yeah you're a bundle of sticks

[Anonymous No.19918394]

>>19915859
Nigga the book is not really feel-good, it's really fucking bittersweet

[Anonymous No.19918431]

>>19915223

>Love is of such high import, because it has nothing to do with the weal or woe of the present individual, as every other matter has; it has to secure the existence and special nature of the human race in future times; hence the will of the individual appears in a higher aspect as the will of the species; and this it is that gives a pathetic and sublime import to love-affairs, and makes their raptures and troubles transcendent, emotions which poets for centuries have not tired of depicting in a variety of ways. There is no subject that can rouse the same interest as love, since it concerns both the weal and woe of the species, and is related to every other which only concerns the welfare of the individual as body to surface.

>What manifests itself in the individual consciousness as instinct of sex in general, without being concentrated on any particular individual, is very plainly in itself, in its generalised form, the will to live. On the other hand, that which appears as instinct of sex directed to a certain individual, is in itself the will to live as a definitely determined individual. In this case the instinct of sex very cleverly wears the mask of objective admiration, although in itself it is a subjective necessity, and is, thereby, deceptive. Nature needs these stratagems in order to accomplish her ends. The purpose of every man in love, however objective and sublime his admiration may appear to be, is to beget a being of a definite nature, and that this is so, is verified by the fact that it is not mutual love but possession that is the essential. Without possession it is no consolation to a man to know that his love is requited.

[Anonymous No.19918436]

>>19918431
>>The real aim of the whole of love’s romance, although the persons concerned are unconscious of the fact, is that a particular being may come into the world; and the way and manner in which it is accomplished is a secondary consideration. ... For is not the aim of definitely determining the individualities of the next generation a much higher and nobler aim than that other, with its exuberant sensations and transcendental soap-bubbles? Among all earthly aims is there one that is either more important or greater? It alone is in keeping with that deep-rooted feeling inseparable from passionate love, with that earnestness with which it appears, and the importance which it attaches to the trifles that come within its sphere. It is only in so far as we regard this end as the real one that the difficulties encountered, the endless troubles and vexations endured, in order to attain the object we love, appear to be in keeping with the matter. For it is the future generation in its entire individual determination which forces itself into existence through the medium of all this strife and trouble. Indeed, the future generation itself is already stirring in the careful, definite, and apparently capricious selection for the satisfaction of the instinct of sex which we call love. That growing affection of two lovers for each other is in reality the Will to live of the new being, of which they shall become the parents; indeed, in the meeting of their yearning glances the life of a new being is kindled, and manifests itself as a well-organised individuality of the future. The lovers have a longing to be really united and made one being, and to live as such for the rest of their lives; and this longing is fulfilled in the children born to them, in whom the qualities inherited from both, but combined and united in one being, are perpetuated.

-Arthur Schopenhauer, On the Metaphysics of Love

[Anonymous No.19918453]

>>19918436
Schopenhauer's take on love is novel and interesting. In basic terms it is just a trick nature plays to produce the next generation. But on a deeper level, the desires, pangs, and turbulent passions of romance is the next generation "seeking to break into" the phenomenal world and be realized as distinct individuals. So it is this commandment for the will to perpetuate itself in new forms in the phenomenal sphere which motivates lovers to seek to join themselves as one in their child.

>And, as has been said, in the meeting of their longing glances originates the first germ of a new being, which, indeed, like all germs, is generally crushed out. This new individual is to a certain extent a new (Platonic) Idea; now, as all Ideas strive with the greatest vehemence to enter the phenomenal sphere, and to do this, ardently seize upon the matter which the law of causality distributes among them all, so this particular Idea of a human individuality struggles with the greatest eagerness and vehemence for its realisation in the phenomenal. It is precisely this vehement desire which is the passion of the future parents for one another. Love has countless degrees, and its two extremes may be indicated as [Greek: Aphroditae Pandaemos] and [Greek: ourania]; nevertheless, in essentials it is the same everywhere.

[Anonymous No.19918459]

>>19915572
>What are some niche interests that you are or were ashamed of?
All my interests. I am nobody.

[Anonymous No.19918472]

>>19918172
>you don't love yourself/consider yourself worthy of love.
Unconditional self-love is a meme. When there's nothing to love, there's no use deluding yourself.

[Anonymous No.19919309]

>>19915229
Fourth timer here too anon. I echo your sentiments too. Shit has moved very fast and this woman would be considered the most damaged of my four, but also the most romantic.

I hope we make it.

[Anonymous No.19919673]

>>19915223
That's the field of psychoanalysis anon. What do you mean by romantic love? The oedipal solution where you see your partner as a separate person, you don't depend your happiness on her and you only take phallic pleasure by fucking her body or enjoying her tits dressed in sundresses?
Or is it the pre oedipal shit, common in this site, where you maintain the delusion of a perfect union, a best friend that you do everything together, your other half that you merge with etc etc?

[Anonymous No.19919750]

>>19915601
There is no recreation without destruction

"Build back better" is a very important motto that has been subverted by the elite

Keep it up, youre doing Gods work

[Anonymous No.19919766]

>>19919673
Both. You see them as a seperate person, enjoy fucking them but never stifle their independence

[Anonymous No.19919781]

>>19918472
There is always something to love.

[Anonymous No.19920692]

>>19915223
I think this site has changed me, particularly /pol/. While I'm not really sure if it really gets to me, I'm not sure if I really believe in it. All those times being bombarded by scientific reductionist posts about "love" really changed me as a person. Stuff like "women needs strong men for nest building, it's all instinctual, nothing conscious about it, it's all biological, blablabla". I just realized over time, I turned into a nihilist and I don't believe in love anymore nor are there any motivation to pursue it anymore. The lack of transcendence kills all motivation in me, I'm not the type to "pursue hedonism for hedonism sake" like all of these scientistic types. That's why I'm focusing on studying philosophy, which I just realized might be an escape from all these materialist meaningless conception of the world. And yes, materialism is one of my focus in studying philosophy, my focus to refute it. And also in part, I sort of believe that if I were to create a monumental work that my name is remembered by many, that's just like reproducing, right? It felt more meaningful than "it's all just chemicals bro" or "it's all natural selection bro" cliche. In a way, /pol/ turned me into a nihilist and I'm seeking some way to overcome it.

[Anonymous No.19920709]

>>19920692
I would get off 4chan for at least a month. Many of the people that spend their time on /pol/ end up over here, and it really is depressing, like you’re staring at and conversing with the worst version of yourself.

[Anonymous No.19920775]

>>19915223
I have no interest in romantic love. I like my friends and stuff but 0 interest in a bf/gf.

[Anonymous No.19921876]

>>19915260
>Love by Stendhal
I've had the closing paragraphs stuck in my head for months. So damn good

[Anonymous No.19922209]

I have never experienced romantic love and think it must be a female spook.

[Anonymous No.19922457]

>>19921876
Isnt it just the best. And also how the last chapter circles right back to the first?

[Anonymous No.19922953]

>>19915229
I havent read, but the first goodreads review makes it seem very interesting even though the reviewer seems to have some critiques of its analitical and how it focuses on Ones love rather than twos love for each other. rather than an “Ambiance”

What are your thoughts on the review?
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/14679.Love