Female literature general.

[Anonymous No.19881900]

Is there something in having a second X chromosome that makes you incapable of reaching greatness in literature?

Is it all the estrogen?

[Anonymous No.19881908]

To protect our democracy, this month we can only read books by BIPOC and women.

[Anonymous No.19881917]

>>19881908
No country on the planet has a democracy. They all have a (((democracy))).

Imagine western countries had a direct referendum about immigration. Do you think the majority would vote "Yeah, sure, I'm fine with how that's been going on and I'd like to keep receiving millions of immigrants"?

There are no democracies in the world.

[Anonymous No.19881929]

Using Sally Rooney is a bit like cheating but whatever.

[Anonymous No.19881993]

>>19881929
Please post more Rooney cringe.

[Anonymous No.19882005]

>>19881900
I LOVE SALLY ROONEY
that is all

[Anonymous No.19882007]

>>19881929
I think I would beat someone if they acted like that towards me. This would be fine, as their aggressive rudeness would violate any social obligation I have towards not harming them.

[Anonymous No.19882012]

>>19881900
Wow this is like so uh philosophical like yeah

[Anonymous No.19882016]

>>19881993

[Anonymous No.19882021]

>>19882012
If you don't admire her, you're a muh-soggy-knee-ist.

[Anonymous No.19882027]

>>19882007
Das sexist mane. You can't contradict women.

[Anonymous No.19882031]

>>19882021

[Anonymous No.19882033]

>>19882027
I would transition just to do it.

[Anonymous No.19882038]

>>19881929
That was fairly interesting to read.

[Anonymous No.19882040]

This is a Rooneychads thread now!

Rooneychads, assemble!

[Anonymous No.19882042]

>>19882038
If by interesting you mean "pretentious, juvenile, ignorant and ultimately nonsensical", sure.

[Anonymous No.19882045]

Hey, I was going to start Conversations with Friends tomorrow. I loved Normal people and liked Beautiful World, Where Are You, so I'm looking forward to it quite a bit. I'm in the mood for a cute Romance.

>Female literature general
Very based. Carson McCullers has to be mentioned as one of the best. If we have any incels ITT that aren't totally irredeemable, and who maybe want to start with female literautre, I strongly recommend The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.

>>19881929
>>19882016
>>19882021
>>19882027
You know the thoughts of the characters aren't a direct representation of the authors own. She is writing fictional people. If you want to pick apart her own views, why don't you quote her interviews?

>>19882040
based!

[Anonymous No.19882055]

>>19882045
I don't think serious literature should be a series of sophomoric musings on pop academia.

[Anonymous No.19882060]

>>19882040
>Rooneychads
Rooneycunts*

[Anonymous No.19882078]

Is this the reason why I can't find a girlfriend despite having a middle income job and my own domicile? Because girls are reading books about how love is the fuel of capitalism and must be dismantled?

[Anonymous No.19882086]

>>19881929
So it is basically just Dawson's Creek: The College Years.

[Anonymous No.19882088]

>>19881900
So Rooney is basically a slightly more retarded Feuerbach... Interesting.

[Anonymous No.19882094]

>>19882045
>I loved Normal people and liked Beautiful World, Where Are You
On some level, liking some books or not is a matter of personal taste and says little about somebody as a person, despite what /lit/ would have you believe.
When you get to a certain level, though, it's not a matter of tastes anymore. If you like shit like that, you're a fucking idiot. Full stop.


>I'm in the mood for a cute Romance.
From what I remember about that shit, it's about a couple of "young females who are also genius marxist theorists" (like all Rooney's books), that meet an older married couple composed of a photographer and a failed actor, and try to break them up. So they get fucked by them while pontificating about the evil of capitalism and of monogamy (all the while enjoying the mansions and the fancy dinners that the older couple offers them, and also while getting supported by their parents).

These characters are also entirely unironical and not self aware at all. Rooney clearly believes the drivel they spout, she clearly thinks they're brilliant, deep, revolutionary observations about life and capitalism, so her books fail even at being a satyre, ending up being utter, unjustifiable shit from every possible angle.

>the thoughts of the characters aren't a direct representation of the authors own
In this case, yes, they are. Rooney has said in interviews that she herself is a marxist, and that she uses her books to explain her views and theories. This "but it's fiction" cope doesn't work here. She's really this dense, ignorant and pretentious.

[Anonymous No.19882100]

>>19882045
>She is writing fictional people. If you want to pick apart her own views, why don't you quote her interviews?
ok sure
>Establishing some kind of winking, nudging relationship with the reader, saying, “Look at these idiots. They’re not like us. They do such silly things, whereas we’re such sophisticated people.” Because I want to avoid at all costs finding myself doing that, it means I have to stay close to these characters all the time, which means that I can only write about people who share certain key aspects of my outlook on life.

[Anonymous No.19882105]

>>19882045
Dude, at a certain point you just have to step back and ask yourself if you're the shithead instead of everyone else. But you won't. You'll go on thinking you're right and everyone else is wrong until you're dead. Whatever.

[Anonymous No.19882128]

>>19882055
What is 'serious literature' to you, and what boundaries are you setting for it? I have't read the book, so I don't know the full context of that extract, but similar conversations happened in Normal People so I sort of get the idea. Rooney is writing typical young and immature characters, and in order to show these characters in a sincere light, sophomoric musings on pop academia are necessary. Whether you like it or not that is what young people today are like. To me reading that extract it seems you are supposed to cringe at the characters, they are supposed to come off as arrogant and misinformed, and in that sense Rooney has done her job well. When you read a novel you need a certain amount of self-awareness to separate the author from the characters, and you can't dismiss a writer because one her characters did cringe.

>>19882094
I've read plenty and I have an English degree to show for it, thank you very much.

>In this case, yes, they are.
Yes, but in this case they are written through the words of other people. I just looked up Conversations with Friends on Goodreads and apparently the main characters are early twenties. That means the views of the 30 year old woman, Sally Rooney, are being translated into the words of an early twenties girl. Do you see what I mean when I say it isn't a direct representation?

>>19882105
Sorry, do I know you?

[Anonymous No.19882145]

Women are perfectly capable of reaching the same heights as men, they just never do, because it's always easier to be ultra-famous for being a WOMAN! (YOWZA!) doing something slightly adequate.

[Anonymous No.19882159]

>>19882027
That last block of text is fucking hilarious.
>As a white woman I can't do anything without the approval of the savag-... er BIPOC because only their opinions are valid and mine are worthless
>But what if they are too retarded to produce a solution? What if I'm waiting for instructions that aren't coming?
>All the while I've pinpointed that I am personally very concerned about the environment
>WHY WON'T A MINORITY TELL ME IT IS OK TO CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. >I need someone else's approval to act
>But not a man, that would be mansplaining
>...I guess I could always kms and that would help the environment

Pure fucking insanity. These people have all the means to adt on their beliefs and they are hamstrung by their fetishization of identity over ideas. It sounds insanely cucked and frustrating. No wonder they are seething.

[Anonymous No.19882163]

>>19882016
Xe's right though. Nature is patriarchal.

[Anonymous No.19882165]

>>19881900
Lack of testosterone

[Anonymous No.19882173]

>>19882027
>Oppressed/oppressor dialectic is theological, not historical
Xe's also right here.

[Anonymous No.19882174]

>>19882100
I don't feel like wasting time for that moron, but in another interview she WINKS at the interviewer and says, feeling very sharp and sly, "If you write novels, you can put a lot of your opinions in the mouths of your characters". As if it's something she just discovered.

[Anonymous No.19882178]

>>19882060
She mogs them apart from the Irish goblin nose(sorry Irishbros)

[Anonymous No.19882201]

>>19882128
>Rooney is writing typical young and immature characters
>they are supposed to come off as arrogant and misinformed
No, she's writing the kind of characters she wishes she could be: 21 years old, pretty and considered a genius marxist theorist by the people around her (who also really want to fuck her because did I mention she's very pretty?).

Her characters look young and immature TO US, not to her. And that transpires from her writing and it makes it cringeworthy instead of just mediocre.

Also
>degree-dropping to show your competence
Don't you realize that you made the situation worse? Now you're somebody who wasted years and lots of money to get a degree in a field that you clearly don't understand shit about.

>it... it isn't a d-direct r-representation!
She says the same shit in her interviews. This 30 year old woman is just very juvenile and pretentious, that's all. Since she was always pretty damn ugly, she convinced herself that it return she must be really smart, and tried to make intelligence the center of her identity, so she would have SOMETHING to feel good about. Some self confidence.
Pic related. She's the female equivalent of the virgin dune poster.

[Anonymous No.19882213]

>>19882159
Replying to myself. Fuck it.
It's literally a religion of inaction. And she fucking understands it! She even tries to glorify it by comparing "righteous inactivity" to being a sacrificial lamb. This is blowing my mind that someone could have this level of insight into their situation, not act, and instead double down on the cope of inaction with such incredibly pathetic defenses as "I'm tired". Truly mind boggling stuff.

[Anonymous No.19882226]

i want donna tartt
to donna fart on my face

[Anonymous No.19882233]

>>19881900
Women aren't supposed to be authors, they are supposed to be mothers. I don't mean this in a condescending way at all. I just wish they weren't judged by the same standards as men.

[Anonymous No.19882234]

>>19882128
I'm neither of those anons but please allow me to mansplain.
>What is 'serious literature' to you, and what boundaries are you setting for it?
Not Sally Rooney.
>I have't read the book, so I don't know the full context of that extract
Then shut the fuck up you stupid cunt. (Also, you made a type-o there, like the other anon, but I'm not a cunt so I won't dwell on it).
>To me reading that extract it seems
Muh characterization. The point is the characters are pseuds that are marketable to midwits. The writing is like something from The WB network if all the writers had taken a few 200 level humanities courses and wanted the audience to think they're smart. Talk to the majority of Rooney fans and they'll tell you how cool Bobbi is (wow, what a hip name) and how Sally helps them to pretend at being introspective.
>I have an English degree
No one asked and no one cares. Get me a beer.
>Sorry, do I know you?
Sorry sweetheart but that line probably only works in person. Besides, unless you have a firm set of Ds and a cute face to make up for your bullshit, I don't want to know you. You're arguing on 4chan over Sally Rooney for fucks sake. (Female arrogance).

Ok hun, time for you to go to bed and let the men have a discussion.

[Anonymous No.19882241]

>>19882226
Another shit writer. Insanely pretentious and just as insignificant. This bitch takes 10 years (ten years) to write a novel, and all she can produce is a bloated tumblr post that tries really hard to appear le deep and le sophisticated, and fails miserably.

She's the literary equivalent of people who drink $1 wine with their pinky raised because they think it makes them look classy. High brow literature for low brow people.

[Anonymous No.19882250]

>>19882213
>mind boggling stuff
And that's not all. Millions of people pay actual money to read this shit.
Multiple times, because she writes the same shit in every book.
And they praise her afterwards!

Truly, the only solution is mass death.

[Anonymous No.19882257]

>>19882233
Feminism told them that being a third rate man is preferable to being a first rate woman, and that being feminine is reprehensible and inferior to being masculine.
And they believed it.
Because they're fucking idiots.

[Anonymous No.19882265]

>>19882128
>I've read plenty and I have an English degree to show for it, thank you very much.
Lmao. Imagine boasting about your English degree on 4channel's literature board. How did you end up here anyway?

[Anonymous No.19882272]

>>19882213
Replying again, again

This is why no amount of women empowerment will ever work out. They fundamentally do not possess the drive to seek out outlandish risky solutions.
>I'm tired and I don't have good ideas
Put forth some goddamn effort to generate a good idea then!

They don't know how to believe in something with zero support because their entire existence is an omnipresent support system. They do not experience isolation and loneliness and therefore cannot separate themselves from peer approval. You can put them at the head of any endeavor and watch the rot from consensus paralysis happen in real time.

[Anonymous No.19882275]

>>19882265
She got lost on her way to buy tampons and cat food.

[Anonymous No.19882276]

>>19882174
Hey I have't been mean to anyone. I even made an actual effort to be polite. Please stop, And anyway I said in a previous response:

>Yes, but in this case they are written through the words of other people. I just looked up Conversations with Friends on Goodreads and apparently the main characters are early twenties. That means the views of the 30 year old woman, Sally Rooney, are being translated into the words of an early twenties girl. Do you see what I mean when I say it isn't a direct representation?

She might be inserting her own views into the characters, but it would be in the words and manners of the characters she has created, ie immature early 20's students.

>>19882201
I'm actually very proud of my degree, and I think did pretty good with it too.

Anyway, I will ignore the first half of your post since is was mean spirited, but I don't think you understand my point as a whole, so I'll try again.

When you write young characters they need to speak and behave like young people, hence the cringe arrogance. It would be bad literature if they were fully erudite and politically conservative. And also, I don't agree with Rooney's politics myself. I don't keep up with it all, so I'd prefer not to have an opinion, but I would say I'm right leaning if anything, and that doesn't stop me enjoying her books. I mostly ignore it when it comes up because I like Rooney for her intimate characters that I can relate to. If you can't relate, then that's fine, I just think you point of criticism is wrong.

>>19882234
I can't really keep up with all the (You)'s I'm getting here lmao and I can't be bothered to reply to you properly, but you should know that I have a history with one of those anons. He hates me and attacks me every time he see's me. I'm also not a woman and I have more sex than you. Post body faggot.

>>19882265
>How did you end up here anyway?
Can't get a job :\

[Anonymous No.19882277]

>>19882128
>What is 'serious literature'
Literature that aims at greatness, and that actually manages to graze it, even if just for a sentence.
Literature that deals with universal, fundamental matters, instead of the petty, shallow, transient issues of the here-and-now.
Literature that aims at achieving beauty, instead of regurgitating the same tropes just to sell, or trying to show the reader how many big boy words the author knows, or that she supports the correct political ideology, or that she's very smart and deep.
Any one of those.

[Anonymous No.19882284]

>>19882257
Yes, but to be frank, men believed it too. If not they would have forced their women and daughters out of this idiocy.

[Anonymous No.19882286]

>>19882027
It's weird how pessimistic and life denying she is, yet she still considers the possibility of political action an "open question." I really have no understanding of the female mind. I think what she must really be saying is that she is too indecisive and submissive to do anything personally, but if a strong, motivated man comes along with calculated, testosterone fueled ideas she would back him with the ferocity of an Athena.

[Anonymous No.19882294]

>>19881900
Rooney isn't anything special, but she hit the jackpot with Bobbi as a character. I can't think of any other character from the past few years that represents the zeitgeist so well. She's everything that it's cool about millennials, but she carry all our burdens as well.

[Anonymous No.19882296]

>>19882276
>I'm also not a woman
Lol.

[Anonymous No.19882299]

>>19882272
>This is why no amount of women empowerment will ever work out.
There are several reasons:
- They're risk averse (cowards), like you said.
- They prefer to LOOK like they're trying to find a solution, instead of actually find a solution. They always prefer to APPEAR rather than to be.
- Their intellect tend to be mediocre compared to men, which have more extremes (more morons but also more geniuses).
- They don't really care about empowerment or politics or economics or any of that shit. All they want is to find a good man who loves them and have cute children with him in a nice house, all their systems SCREAM at them to do so, but they've been told that that's bad and so they feel guilty about their own impulses and desires. Always an awful and sterile situation.

[Anonymous No.19882305]

>>19882272
>They don't know how to believe in something with zero support
Women are chickens. Since they're devoid of an internal morality or of any particular intelligence, they always let the people around them tell them what is right and proper.

If a woman was put in a group of child-eaters, she would quickly come to consider eating kids perfectly fine.

[Anonymous No.19882306]

>>19882286
It's dumber than that. She's waiting for an anointed identity figure to produce the correct idea. If an idea she resonates with surfaces but the vessel looks wrong she cannot back the idea. She also refuses to make any attempt to generate the idea herself because she is an unworthy vessel. It's a religion.

[Anonymous No.19882307]

>>19882276
>you should know that I have a history with one of those anons
>I'm also not a woman
>Post body
Schizo tier achieved.

[Anonymous No.19882308]

>>19882276
>She might be inserting her own views into the characters, but it would be in the words and manners of the characters she has created
This is the most hilarious rooneycope I've ever encountered.
Her "insights" are shit regardless of the words you use to express them. You might express them like an octuagenarian, and they'd still be juvenile, pretentious shit. Because that's the level at which rooney thinks.

[Anonymous No.19882312]

>>19882045
>quote her interviews
sally rooney writes blatant autofiction

[Anonymous No.19882316]

>>19882307
I actually do though. I am going to regret saying this, but I unironically do take meds and he likes to bring it up all the time to discredit me. I tried to apologise but he won't accept it.

[Anonymous No.19882325]

>>19882276
Who is the cute girl? That's very close how I picture Bobbi.

[Anonymous No.19882328]

>>19882276
>I'm actually very proud of my degree
>Anyway, I will ignore the first half of your post since is was mean spirited
Come on, now you're just playing the role of the stupid woman. To the point where I start to suspect you're actually a tranny. Post hands or neck. Let's see that Adam's apple.

>When you write young characters they need to speak and behave like young people, hence the cringe arrogance.
The cringe arrogance comes from the ideas themselves (which rooney shares), not from the way they're expressed. They don't talk with emoticons and by saying "lol capitalism bad am I right?". They talk like 30 or 40 years old. The problem is that the CONCEPTS they explain are retarded, pretentious and hilariously wrong.

>I would say I'm right leaning if anything
Stop trying to fit in with le epic 4channers. You're a stupid cunt and that's all you'll ever be.

>her intimate characters that I can relate to
You yourself admit that they're arrogant and cringe. What do you think it means that you can relate to them so well?

>I'm also not a woman
Tranny confirmed.

>I have more sex than you
Nothing to brag about receiving infected loads in your ass from grindr.

[Anonymous No.19882329]

>>19882308
This.
>Lolita light of my life...
>DAMN GIRL! WOOOO! WHAT THAT BOOTY DO?! SHIEEET!

I want to stick my dick in the female. Ideas can be expressed with varying levels of eloquence, and that in and of itself has value, but the content of the idea does not change. These are both expressions of the idea of lust. Rooney's ideas are not better or worse for their level of lucidity mediated through the age of her characters. The content does not change.

[Anonymous No.19882334]

>>19882284
Absolutely. Women's state is men's fault, in the same way a misbehaved child is the parents' fault, and for the same reason.

[Anonymous No.19882335]

>>19882178
>apart from the Irish goblin nose
and the oily skin, and the greasy hair, and the asymmetrical eye line, and her droopy eyes, and the skin tag on her neck, and the inconsistent complexion, and the prematurely forming jowls, and the big floppy ears, and...

[Anonymous No.19882338]

>>19882329
They already made black Lolita

[Anonymous No.19882349]

>>19882286
>I really have no understanding of the female mind
Well to be fair, rooney is an extreme case. 99% of women simply want to be pretty, get a handsome man who loves them, live in a nice house, do an easy, safe job that makes a good impression on others, and have cute kids to raise. They're as focused on small mundane joys as a child.

[Anonymous No.19882352]

>>19882328
Not everyone is perfect and I'm a bit of a mentally ill narcissist myself so I can relate. I like that her characters are flawed.

>Post hands
Picture is related.

[Anonymous No.19882354]

>>19882294
>She's everything that it's cool about millennials
That bitch doesn't have a single redeeming quality apart from her hotness.

[Anonymous No.19882360]

>>19882325
Dasha Nekrasova

[Anonymous No.19882371]

>>19882360
Now that you say it, Dasha is a lot like a real life Bobbi, but a bit more edgy. I had never made the connection before.

[Anonymous No.19882372]

>>19882316
>I am going to regret saying this
Don't worry, tranny, nobody gives enough of a shit about you to care.

[Anonymous No.19882387]

>>19882349
You're not factoring in guilt into the equation. Everything you just mentioned is a benefit of capitalism, the patriarchy, and racism. To pursue those goals while the blameless minorities suffer is evil. You must sacrifice those goals to the minorities who rule over your soul. Otherwise you are a sinner. Therefore flee the images of prosperity. A husband, children, and security are markers of wickedness. Absolve yourself of your fallen white nature by being single, childless, subservient to minorities, and owning nothing.

[Anonymous No.19882388]

>>19882352
Effeminate but definitely masculine hands.
Now post neck.

[Anonymous No.19882395]

>>19882388
Stop bullying the schizo :( just let them be, man

[Anonymous No.19882397]

>>19882387
Damn, well said. That's exactly the mind fuckery that is making modern white women miserable.
Feminism is really poison for the female mind. I wonder (((who))) invented it and for what purpose.

[Anonymous No.19882398]

>>19882316
Ok. I'm the anon who wrote that and I feel badly for making fun of you now. Good work putting yourself out there, even if it is just online, and it's good that you were able to get a degree. I'm not going to backtrack and say that your Rooney take isn't shallow and generic--but at least it's a decent/logical way to go about understanding characterization. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.19882404]

>>19882038
lmao

[Anonymous No.19882405]

>>19882398
>>19882316
Kiss the mirror instead of speaking to yourself, schizo.

[Anonymous No.19882407]

>>19882352
Your index finger is so long compared to your ring finger, bro.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio#Correlation_with_traits

[Anonymous No.19882420]

>>19882388
No because I have't shaved. And also why am I not getting any pics from you big boy? I demand you post body now!

>>19882395
I'm fine thank you though. I've actually been feeling pretty good recently <3

>>19882398
Thank you. I was pretty mean too so sorry about that. I'm glad we can put it behind us :))

[Anonymous No.19882421]

>>19882407
>Increased risk for depression in males[86]
>Increased rate of schizophrenia[87]
>Increased rate of borderline personality disorder.[88]
>Increased rate of psychopathy in females and increased rate of callous affect (subscale of psychopathy) in males
Well, fuck. Hit the nail on the head.

[Anonymous No.19882428]

>>19882021
What the fuck even is this shit? How is this art? It's just someone talking about her politics as if it's a twitter thread.

[Anonymous No.19882432]

>>19882420
Begone, tranny. My body is a holy temple, not fap material for you to diddle your 3 inches clitoris.

[Anonymous No.19882437]

>>19882405
Not a samefag. This type of shit is only funny if the person is a retarded Rooney fangirl or a pretentious pseud who needs to be taken down a peg. The dude might have problems so we should be considerate and just let him/her/whatever discuss Rooney. If he finds enjoyment in her work then whatever...at least he isn't raving about how cool a particular character is or going on and on about how Rooney captures le zeitgeist of a generation.

[Anonymous No.19882447]

>>19882437
>he
Misgendering kills. Are you subtly trying to get our tranny to join the 41%?

[Anonymous No.19882468]

What /lit/'s opinions on this?

[Anonymous No.19882484]

>>19882468
It's hard to find the full 2 vol version of it (I've been meaning to check it out). I found vol 2 in a used bookstore a while back and have my eye out for the other half. I heard that it's like Les Mis though in that it's acceptable to read an abridged copy.

[Anonymous No.19882504]

>>19882447
He said: "I'm not a girl." He's been nice enough not to be disingenuous with us in this discussion and put out a halfway decent effort post to kick it off (hence the (You)s)...like I said, he isn't a pseud/fangirl and didn't sperg out, so he should get a pass. He seems like a nice enough kid who wandered into an unhealthy forum.

[Anonymous No.19882525]

>>19882371
>8
Damn. Now I want to see a tv adaption starring Dasha. Can she pull off an irish accent?

[Anonymous No.19882701]

>>19882504
Be that as it may, /lit/ is not the place to discuss Rooney, much less defend her. I imagine other websites would be more suited to him.

[Anonymous No.19882772]

Marguerite Yourcenar's Memoirs of Hadrian is at least one order of magnitude better than half of the content on the catalog. My peepee enjoys Anaïs Nin. Carson McCullers was already mentioned. What's the problem with women writers? Personally, I just dislike them because they won't lie down in bed for me without the aid of either a lot of alcohol or rope.

[Anonymous No.19882933]

>>19882504
You're right, mate, I was just taking the piss. I'm just bored and despondent towards everything, as usual.

[Anonymous No.19882939]

>>19882772
>Marguerite Yourcenar's Memoirs of Hadrian
Tried to read it after hearing it praised to hell and back, and found it insipid, uninspired and eminently mediocre. I don't often drop books, but I dropped that after 70-80 pages.