/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19873423]

women are funny whether your incel mind admits it or not

[Anonymous No.19873439]

>>19873423
>she breasted boobily to the stairs, and titted downwards
lmao JAMES JOYCE?! IS THAT YOU?!

[Anonymous No.19873444]

>>19873423
>scott
>woman

[Anonymous No.19873460]

>>19873423
show me comedy by a woman that doesn't involve sex or relationships. you can't

[Anonymous No.19873589]

>>19873423
women writing male characters
>he wall a tall dreamy billionaire werewolf with dark past who loved the heroine who totally isn't me at first sight because she was intelligent and funny.

[Anonymous No.19873611]

>>19873423
If you’re right, pic related must not be a very good example.

[Anonymous No.19873622]

How do I get better at writing female characters? What are some defining traits that they must have?

[Anonymous No.19873627]

>>19873622
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8

[Anonymous No.19873640]

>>19873423
why yes i have read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series

[Anonymous No.19873648]

>>19873423
I haven't read it but I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's an actual excerpt from 50 Shades

[Anonymous No.19873662]

I deadass never met a funny woman in my life. I have never heard a woman say anything funny.

[Anonymous No.19873670]

>>19873622
I make them tormented souls. Sad isn't enough, they must be miserable, but in a way that lets them emerge with a clean soul. It's hard to explain. I like them as an enduring character

[Anonymous No.19873671]

>>19873589
KEK

[Anonymous No.19873688]

>>19873423
That's literally how women wake up though?

[Anonymous No.19873709]

>>19873662
My first and third gfs were funny. I met funny girls in college, but it was in another era. But women have a different humor than guys, it's not the same.

[Anonymous No.19873714]

>>19873662
>deadass
please leave

[Anonymous No.19874837]

>>19873423
https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill

[Anonymous No.19874855]

>>19873589
Just copy such a paragraph onto the sub, change all male references to female and vice versa before name dropping the book at the end of the post

[Anonymous No.19874872]

>>19874837
>/incels.wiki/
kek embarrassing

[Anonymous No.19874875]

>>19873423
This is enjoyable to read

[Anonymous No.19874912]

>>19873589
/thread

[Anonymous No.19875822]

>>19873622
>>19873670
This guy is right and this extends beyond writing women into the realm of developing relationships with women. Women desire affirmations that they have suffered well. That is that they have suffered misfortune through no fault of their own (kek) but weathered the unjust storm with grace and magnanimity.

They measure their self worth by the injustice involuntarily (kek) thrust upon their innocence. It's a childlike passive focused value system. The highest saint of the female soul is the sacrificial lamb: a blameless girl declared a witch and burned at the stake by a mad (many eyed, much attention!) society.

Or course this value system requires a gaping hole in the holder's awareness and understanding of their contributions to manifesting their own suffering. But, that's not what they want to hear. They just want to be the innocent victim and be pitied/praised for enduring.

As you can tell this solipsistic yearning is not very interesting from a literary standpoint. Why? Because innocence doesn't take a hardline stance of expressing a strong belief, it is the state of a lack of strongly expressed belief. To be innocent is to be blameless and the closest state to blamelessness is inactivity. Conflict is the fuel of any great story and an mc without a strongly held belief to clash against other characters with strongly held beliefs is severely hamstrung by comparison.

[Anonymous No.19875888]

>>19873670
Dude, you're watching way too many Bergman movies

[Anonymous No.19875979]

>>19875888
Name a female character in popular media beloved by females that does not meet one of these two qualities:
1. Innocence wronged by society
2. Revenge motivation

Women do not resonate with characters that develop a belief and struggle to manifest their desire. Their focus is reactive, not active. Greatness must first touch the woman before she responds to its encounter, she is incapable of activity ex nihilo. Men are capable of bearing the crushing weight of total obscurity, meaninglessness, and ignorance and emerging from the depths of the abyss with discovered meaning.

[Anonymous No.19875995]

>>19873423
Women realizing the only reason anybody cares about them is because of sex

[Anonymous No.19876302]

>>19875822
Great explanation!

I saw this first hand this from my experience with a BPD woman. The point about the gaping hole in their awareness is truly mind-bending to witness. It's not even that they lack awareness, but that they gaslight themselves into believing they are the victims and blameless. They put great effort into concealing reality and rewriting history.

If you are kind to them, they will covertly abuse you and trigger you into abusing them, just so that they can live out their fantasy of being supposedly blameless. You start out as the rescuer and end up being the victim yourself. They are unable to see life outside the karpman drama triangle.

Any attempt to shed light on this behaviour pattern will cause them to self destruct and go berserk. Women really cannot handle reality.

[Anonymous No.19876318]

>>19876302
> trigger you into abusing them
Only people on the psychopath spectrum think like this.

[Anonymous No.19876325]

>>19873622
Just copy Shakespeare, Thackeray, or Defoe. Women aren't that interesting.

[Anonymous No.19876327]

>>19873662
Get a Scottish or Irish gf

[Anonymous No.19876340]

>>19876318
Yes, that's why I said my experience with a BPD woman.

[Anonymous No.19876366]

>>19875822
I don't know, honestly. I've met plenty of women that are this way, just as much as I've met plenty of men who are lazy vice filled degenerates, but the normal mass of the public is always short sighted and disappointed. Exceptional women who are driven do exist, so why not just write about them instead?

[Anonymous No.19876368]

>>19873423
female humour
>vulgar sex joke
>vulgar poop joke
>insult people's appearance
>talk about their vaginas
>talk about race
nope

[Anonymous No.19876379]

>>19876366
Because then you get accused of writing a male character with tits. No joke.

[Anonymous No.19876388]

>>19876340
No, I mean thinking that other people can “trigger” you into abusing them is a psychopath spectrum trait. You are likely on the psychopath spectrum, which is why you attracted and retained contact with another cluster B. Note how even in this threat you are playing digital triangulation games with some random lady no one here knows or cares about.
You are everything that you claim to hate.

[Anonymous No.19876509]

>>19873662
Why would you tell everyone you've never interacted with women beyond your mother?

[Anonymous No.19876519]

>>19873622
Be gay (seriously)
Ever read Breakfast at Tiffany's?

[Anonymous No.19876536]

>>19876388
>dude it's actually you da whole time!!!
The power of psychology

[Anonymous No.19876582]

>>19873423
All women should start taking testosterone

[Anonymous No.19876601]

>>19873662
Women are often Unintentionally funny in my experience, Intentionally funny woman are extremely rare.

[Anonymous No.19876839]

>>19876388
>No, I mean thinking that other people can “trigger” you into abusing them is a psychopath spectrum trait.

What are you a woman? bpd chicks will try to make you do things that they can hold against you. When they thrive it is because they have a lot of naive people like you in their support system who could never conceive of what they do.

[Anonymous No.19876855]

>>19873662
>deadass
the americanization of western culture and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Anonymous No.19876862]

>>19873423
Can we be sure they wouldn't have aped him if he had escorted her to her residence, or broken-bottled his skull then aped the damsel?

[Anonymous No.19876867]

>>19876855
Fr fr

[Anonymous No.19876879]

>>19873423
I don't even understand the point you are trying to make with this. Please explain things so my uncle mind can even begin to understand. I need so much help. Save me

[Anonymous No.19876890]

>>19873622
Just write a male and take away all ratio and accountability.

[Anonymous No.19876979]

>>19876890
Take this ratio instead

[Anonymous No.19876998]

>>19873423
why i am i so hard

[Anonymous No.19877065]

>>19873589
Spot on

[Anonymous No.19877107]

>>19873589
>because she was intelligent and funny
You're giving those authors too much credit, usually they don't even try to come up with a pretext.

[Anonymous No.19877116]

The only people who don't like drawn out descriptions of breasts are titlets and scrawny manlets looking for good boy points by expressing scorn toward this week's socially approved hate-object.

[Anonymous No.19877117]

>>19873622
You can write whatever you want. The key is balance. You want to write about a sex worker that loves her pimp and ultimately just wants to be a housewife? Do it. But at least have her self reflect on her decision or try to a different way of life or at least observe another way of life and reflect on that. All the other women in your book can't be hoes. There are good books with a small roster of characters but make one or two of them antithetical to the sex worker house wife or have her get into a tense or reflective conversation about what she wants with another sex worker. Also passing the Bechdel test is actually a good measure of fair representation and even now a lot of our media fails it. People always praise GRRM for his women characters and his kind of exasperated and slightly confused response is always funny to see because he just simply writes them like he writes men. There are a lot of them, all with different personalities and positions in society, and he gives them options as to how they should or could act and have them make the best, or worse, decision with what information they have, and if they are a point of view character we get to see the internal dialogue or decision making.

[Anonymous No.19877122]

Considering that men are also women in this day and age, writing women as men without dick (or with dick) is completely acceptable. It subtly appeals to the trans agenda, which makes your book sales without compromising your own view point on LGBT

[Anonymous No.19877280]

>>19876509
>woman humor

[Anonymous No.19877453]

>>19873460
there's manga

[Anonymous No.19877457]

>>19876366
>why not write about driven women

Women readers don’t read or women viewers don’t watch.

It’s why legbeard movies rarely get made
Women would rather stay home and watch the Bachelor.

[Anonymous No.19877487]

>>19873460

[Anonymous No.19877490]

>>19873423
I kinda wanna read what happens next with Cassandra and her tits

[Anonymous No.19877497]

>>19877487
This isn't ready you fucking faggot if you don't have anything to say don't post

[Anonymous No.19877500]

>>19873423
Kinda ruined the whole thing with that last line.

[Anonymous No.19877507]

>>19873423
>girl wakes up, stretches, and puts on a shirt
That's normal behavior. They completely missed the mark regarding men writing women. I haven't looked into the complaints at all, but I assumed it was criticism about how men create female behaviors and speech or something. If they indeed were criticizing the prose then that's an entirely different issue and has nothing to do with "men vs women".

[Anonymous No.19877514]

>>19877117
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGmctvlITtI

[Anonymous No.19877517]

>>19876509
jesus why is foid humor always the same four lines

[Anonymous No.19877590]

>>19875822
>they have suffered misfortune through no fault of their own but weathered the unjust storm with grace and magnanimity.
I'm the anon you replied to. It's exactly this. This is how I like 'em.

[Anonymous No.19877647]

Here's a good faith inquiry to the biological women (if any) who dwell in here who aren't insane hard feminists: would you roll your eyes only at the "her nipples pierced the fabric like arrow tips" stuff or do you think any description of a woman undressing that is not entirely dry is le male gaze? Like I have a scene in a fantasy where a woman strips down and changes attire with a focus on what the garnments mean. There's no attempt to be suggestive, but of course you can read it suggestively because I touch upon her bare feet and her hair and whatnot. Do you think one should go to lengths to avoid any mistakenly suggestive reading of what is written or are you only against "her breasts glistened with sweat" type shit. Like where exactly is the line? This is sort of like when there's a painting, is any portraiture of female nudity le maze gaze, does only pornography count, is it all about taste, etc.
Like I don't like this shit because it's the analogue of pantyshot fanservice in anime which I find offensive, not because I care about women's dignity but because the author thinks he can sell me on subpar work with a pair of tits. Yet where do you draw the line? Obviously since I am a male I look at women with attraction. Can I describe a character's beauty or even her sexual allure if it's relevant? On the contrary what if I embrace the avant-garde and do something ironically pornographic, why do women never really have a problem with that? Is it only for YA and fantasy because impressionable minds are involved?
At a certain point you conclude that the only way to write according to what the audience wants / isn't offended by is to go by consumer research. You make a corporate product.

[Anonymous No.19877693]

>>19877647
Not a woman but this one is easy to figure out or fix. It's about context. Why are you introducing your female characters with sexy descriptions? Women are more than walking bags of sexy flesh. Her nipples pierced the fabric like arrow tips doesn't need to be said in a non sexual scene. Is your scene set in a brothel, a strip club, at a pool party and she's in a bikini? If it is then that's fine. If she's a receptionist and sitting behind a desk, her glistening cleavage really doesn't need to be mentioned. If the scene is her getting dressed before going to work, and her boyfriend isn't in the room, and we're literally getting the story through the "male gaze", then we don't need descriptions of how the morning sunlight silhouettes her body accentuating her curves and erect nipples. Much like a man a woman would look in the mirror and lament the dark marks and bags under her eyes, realize that she's getting peach fuzz above her lips and she'll need to shave or pluck it, notices that her teeth feels fuzzy and she can still taste the beer and pizza from last night on her breath and that she's unfortunately out of mouth wash.

[Anonymous No.19877715]

>>19877693
>Women are more than walking bags of sexy flesh.

[Anonymous No.19877718]

>>19876509

See: >>19873460

[Anonymous No.19877722]

>>19877693
>Not a woman but
I specifically asked. I also disagree with the general idea that you need to contextualize everything. It makes sense when it's about coomer descriptions but as a general rule it doesn't work very well unless your idea of literature is a detached, linear third person narrative.

[Anonymous No.19877731]

>>19877693
>Women are more than walking bags of sexy flesh

[Anonymous No.19877733]

>>19877715
I know you're joking but if more men and women stopped thinking about others as walking bags of sexy flesh and more about the personhood of who they're looking at, then that would go a long way towards stopping a shit ton of human suffering.

[Anonymous No.19877739]

>>19875822
My favourite female character, Winnie Verloc from Secret Agent by Joseph Conrad is almost exactly like this. The only difference is she went insane and darkness enveloped her so much she killed someone and then herself.

[Anonymous No.19877742]

>>19877722
>I also disagree with the general idea that you need to contextualize everything.
Then you're just a contrarian, every thing is contextualized. You only wanted a woman to argue against.

[Anonymous No.19877745]

women who are funny are also huge sluts even by woman standards

[Anonymous No.19877754]

>>19877739
But she also killed in revenge so maybe it counts?

[Anonymous No.19877761]

>>19873423
Is this William Gibson?

[Anonymous No.19877765]

>>19877647
Not a woman either, but passages like "she arched her back and let out a little moan as the coffee touched her full red lips, squirming in her seat and pressing her breasts forward against the table to read the newspaper, biting her bottom lip" to describe a normal breakfast annoy me, so I'll ignore your instructions and rant anyway.

Imagine describing the tip of a man's penis brushing against the cotton sheets of the bed as he woke up. That penis is going to be hanging over the next few paragraphs like a phallic sword of Damocles. This is fine if it's what you intend them to be; maybe the man had sex last night, or maybe you want the reader to feel uncomfortable and you're using biological details to do it. If the author is blind to the impact of mentioning a penis and describes it unconsciously and at thematically strange times, though, then the reader will be confused. Why is this man's penis relevant to the homeless man at the bus stop? What does it have to do with the coffee: is this breakfast meant to be a sexy one? The author's need to casually depict cocks puts the reader on edge for the whole story.

[Anonymous No.19877813]

>>19877765
My question was specifically about the fine line between a standard description and one that is sensuous or pornographic. You made examples that are exaggerated, so these stand out, but I wanted to know specifically if women read what I would not look at as a sexual description as le problematic male gaze. I probably see an attractive woman differently than another woman would, like my eyes would go over different landmarks even outside of the ass and breasts, and I would notice different things, like the taper of her legs or the length and thinness of her neck, the way her hair looks and so on, even if I don't feel horny about what I see. This is literally my male gaze at work, so do women have a problem with this or is it just that kind of pornographic stuff. That was the question, pretty much.

[Anonymous No.19877830]

>>19873622
They should never ever do what they say they are going to do and never know what they are going to do.

[Anonymous No.19877833]

>>19877813
I don't know what women do, but I notice those physicalities when I want to fuck, and when I read them they prime me to assuming fucking is imminent or has recently occurred. Possibly, women are similarly primed.

Good luck getting one of the three biological women who've ever posted on /lit/ to answer you, though.

[Anonymous No.19877836]

>>19877813
In the same way when I look at a dude I do not really notice his muscles or how wide his shoulders are, unless he's some kind of athlete and these things are exceptional. I may vaguely think that he's "fit" but I don't focus on much. I notice drier details like his facial expressions or his body language. That's simply because I'm not attracted to men. I can talk with ugly men without really paying attention to how ugly they are, in fact I can find them pleasant. A woman would probably notice that the man is ugly, as well as other details. The key here is that I'm not attracted to men while a woman is, so we're going to look at the same person differently. If "male gaze" is about this then it's incurable, pretty much you need to have literature for women vs. literature for men. If it's about expressing the author's sexualty through the text, then it's a finer issue, if it's about pandering to coomers, then yeah I think it's poor writing. But I don't know where the line is at between the genders. Obviously the examples brought up are extreme but feminists literally take offense at men talking to them and we live in an era of complete relativism so I'm curious to know.

[Anonymous No.19877840]

>>19877117
>sex worker
You can just say hooker, dude.

[Anonymous No.19877844]

>>19877514
>women are driven by the same desire as men
Grotesquely wrong and repulsive - this is true misogyny.

[Anonymous No.19877845]

>>19877813
>so do women have a problem with this
Yes
"Child baring hips" is one of those phrases to me. Sure it's accurate and not necessarily sexy, but it's still reducing a woman to just a bodily object.

[Anonymous No.19877848]

>>19877840
A woman wrote that - it's clear because they cite the bechdel test unironically

[Anonymous No.19877849]

>>19877840
here's your (You)

[Anonymous No.19877855]

>>19876979
I mean reason you imbecile.

[Anonymous No.19877865]

>>19877848
Bechdel test is backed up by data. Aren't we supposed to be all about facts and logic?

[Anonymous No.19877894]

>>19877845
>>19877849
>>19877865
I'm sensing a strange, feminine aura...

[Anonymous No.19877902]

>>19873662
Congrats. You’re fucking gay kek

[Anonymous No.19877919]

>>19873662
women are can be funny in the amusing way, like ¨how can a person think like this lol¨, sometimes they say things that make me laugh but not because they are trying to be funny

[Anonymous No.19877925]

>>19877845
"Child bearing hips" isn't an expression you use when you're not making sexual comments. It's something you say to your friend about a hot chick you want to bang.

[Anonymous No.19877931]

women will be big and men will be small in the (near) future

[Anonymous No.19877938]

>>19877925
it's kind of weird that no woman in the history of man kind has ever uttered the words "child making dick" to describe a man they're attracted to.

[Anonymous No.19877942]

>>19877931
Good. Men will finally be free of heartaches. There's no loving a woman who isn't petite and graceful. If every woman was some kind of cavemanish monstrosity everything would be so easy.

[Anonymous No.19877954]

>>19877931
Degenerate. No one wants to hear about your sick trample fetish

[Anonymous No.19877994]

>>19877942
I disagree
>>19877954
It's evolution not degenerate, it makes much more sense for women to be big and men small in the modern world. And all this boys vs girls stuff will end as well because women won't be straddling this weird line of cognitive dissonance where they feel equal but at the same time unsafe.

[Anonymous No.19877999]

>>19875822
>gaping hole

I see what you did there

[Anonymous No.19878001]

>>19877931
You post this faggot shit on fit too, get out of here or at least adopt a trip. Your stupid eugenics fetish larp will never be real.

[Anonymous No.19878016]

>>19877994
Evolution isn't real

[Anonymous No.19878019]

>>19873662
This. The only measure of sense humor in women I have left is whether they laugh at funny things.

[Anonymous No.19878020]

>>19877647
One way to make it work is to establish it not as "male gaze" but rather the "aesthetic eye" by also portraying male (or other) characters in a similar fashion.
Another way is to make the beholder (or abstract view point) of that particular scene part of the narrative fabric.

[Anonymous No.19878023]

>>19877938
it's not because that doesn't make sense

[Anonymous No.19878042]

>>19878023
The concept of a man being well hung, and therefore virile and fertile, doesn't make sense?

[Anonymous No.19878056]

>>19878042
no not really because the size of your penis has virtually nothing to do with fertility, as opposed to the size of a womans hips being a decently high factor for the very life of the child and woman

[Anonymous No.19878068]

>>19878001
It is real.

[Anonymous No.19878078]

>>19877865
>Bechdel test is backed up by data. Aren't we supposed to be all about facts and logic?
Man would write: Bechdel is empirically verified.
It's clear you're a woman - no harm meant, but yeah.

[Anonymous No.19878079]

>>19878056
I wanted to say the same thing about hips but I would imagine that penis size matters very much when it comes to delivering seed into a woman, but I might be wrong.

[Anonymous No.19878080]

>>19878056
>as opposed to the size of a womans hips being a decently high factor for the very life of the child and woman

That's not completely true, there are a lot of factors that go into how child birth plays out. A woman having narrow hips can have an easy birth, and a woman with wider hips could have a difficult birth. Even with modern medicine, there's no way to accurately predict how it will go.

[Anonymous No.19878083]

>>19877938
>>19878042
Hips and children are what women bring to the evolutionary table. Strong arms and advantageous social position are what men bring to the evolutionary table. Strong arms are definitely on the table for praise.

[Anonymous No.19878085]

>>19877938
Because women cannot reduce men but men can reduce women. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but on 4chan we do it to one another. Keep in mind, men objectify two things: Women's bodies and other men's minds. Porn is the former and 4chan is the latter.