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19867454 No.19867454 [Reply] [Original]

The primary fact of human nature guiding Joseph de Maistre's writing in the St. Petersburg Dialogues is man's fallenness. He asserts that all men can attest to this reality, namely, that all men suffer imperfection and experience sorrow. Man's corruption is such that, if one were truly introspective, he would blush at the sight of himself.

Despite this, something in all men stirs them to seek happiness, pointing to that man was made to be happy. Further, all men desire the good. This is evidenced that, whatever decision one makes, he does it because he believes it to be good. Even if one commits an evil act (murder, for instance), he does so because he perceives that evil act to be good.

Man desires happiness. Man desires the good. Man cannot provide these things on his own because of his obvious degradation.

Maistre is drawing the reader upward precisely to show that anything good in man must come from outside himself, from above, as it were, from God. This fallenness is nothing other than Original Sin, and man is not his own solution; Christ is, and this alone through His Catholic Church.

This is chiefly the systemic folly of modern philosophy: man is his own savior. The modern world supposes that science, moral liberality, affluence, and so on, will provide true happiness. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I wish the reader to observe this in modern literature. Personally, I take well to more depressing narratives, such as The Sun Also Rises, Winesburg Ohio, The Idiot, Notes from Underground, and others. These novels illustrate quite well man's terrible state. Consider Sherwood Anderson's work. His short stories include characters who are isolated, lonely, and unable to communicate. This speaks to the isolation, loneliness, and lack of reason in a world lived as if without the Triune God.

All that aside for now. My friend, let's call him JR, knows my nihilistic taste in literature despite my joyous Catholicism. As I tell him, the most nihilistic characters showcase the joy we are made for. Anyway, he suggested to me recently to read Houellebecq.

I am not good at answering texts, and forget watching a video someone sends me, and he thinks I will read this Frenchman!

In his defense, my friend is a duck. He is not just any mallard, either. No, his broad shoulders (wings?) signify his unwillingness to conform to modernism. He despises all that the modern world offers. I inform him that we must return to the ancient ways, for what is eternal is ever new. Yet, autist he is, he tells me he is "losing it" and descends into the depths of the pond from which he came.

Maybe I will read Michel. He smokes. I find that appealing.

>> No.19867916
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19867916

Smoking is pretty badass

>> No.19867949

Just read Baudelaire, Barbey, Bataille

>> No.19868003

>>19867949
First sign of a pseud dork is responding to a clear effort post with "durrr read x," without any elaboration let alone linking to the initial post. Please kill yourself or at least stop posting.

>> No.19868013

>>19867454
Ok, JKT.

>> No.19868070

>>19868003
They fit better with Maistre than Houllebecq idyot

>> No.19868103

>>19868070
>This is true because I say so
Have you brain damage? Explain why faggot.

>> No.19868124

>>19867454
>Further, all men desire the good
The argument compeltely crumbles from this false premise.

>> No.19868195

>>19868124
When philosophers say "all men" they mean "rational men". Your brain damage might make you want to do evil, you're mentally not human.

>> No.19868219 [DELETED] 

>>19868195
All rational men are corrupt, but not all corrupt men are rational. And yet corruption itself is irrational. So it seems that all rational men suffer from irrationality, which may cause them to desire something other than good. In any case, we're talking an extremely primitive psychological and thereby sociological framework here.

>> No.19868230

>>19868195
All rational men are corrupt, but not all corrupt men are rational. And yet corruption itself is irrational. So it seems that all rational men suffer from irrationality, which may cause them to desire something other than good. In any case, we're talking about an extremely primitive psychological and thereby sociological framework here.

>> No.19868300
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19868300

>>19868230
Maistre is making the point that men always desire what they think is good, but the "good" they desire can be bad. When the "good" is bad is when man is being irrational. When you desire evil you're not a man.

>> No.19868314

>>19867916
I need a new pack. I'm out

>> No.19868328

>>19868124
The premise is not false. Anything men do, they do because they perceive the good in the action they choose.

>> No.19868910
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19868910

>>19867454
The ancient Poets animated all sensible objects with Gods or Geniuses, calling them by the names and adorning them with the properties of woods, rivers, mountains, lakes, cities, nations, and whatever their enlarged & numerous senses could percieve. And particularly they studied the genius of each city & country placing it under its mental deity.

Till a system was formed, which some took advantage of & enslaved the vulgar by attempting to realize or abstract the mental deities from their objects; thus began Priesthood. Choosing forms of worship from poetic tales. And at length they pronouncd that the Gods had ordered such things.

Thus men forgot that all deities reside in the human breast.

>> No.19868925

>>19868124
Imagine being this arrogantly stupid that you actually implicitly claim that people desire what is undesired, by definition.

>> No.19869552

>>19868925
Imagine being such a brainled that you confuse "good" with "the good".

>> No.19869589

>>19869552
Imagine being such a cuck that you let some 14th century hedonist convince you that there's a difference between good and the good because he said so

>> No.19870618

>>19867454
>Houellebecq
I am a Catholic existentialist (or something like that) and love The Sun Also Rises and recently read Atomised. I have mixed feelings about it. I don't do well staring into the darkness too long.. yet I'll probably end up reading the rest of his work