/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Sat Jan 29 06:31:09 2022 No.19831147 [Reply] [Original]

There is absolutely no point in trying to become a published author nowadays. It's a fool's errand through and through. The rise of the internet and the ability of pretty much anyone to become a writer has, ironically, killed any hope for rookie authors. The market is beyond oversaturated. Literature is a medium where it's much harder to stand out and be unique than in something like film. You often have be an expert in order to recognize a work's unique voice and distinguish it from hundreds of other works in the same genre. And most consumers aren't going to be experts, meaning they have zero reason to buy your stuff unless you just pander to their specific demands, and even then, there are always people already doing that for you, who have been doing it longer than you and better than you. And even from a purely creative standpoint, do you really believe you have anything unique to say that the literal HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of other people who now have access to writing have not already said? Oh, what's that? You wanna write a short story criticizing the flaws of modern society? Wow, so cool. Just like 8930247 (that number is probably not even an exaggeration) short stories satirizing the flaws of modern society. When someone like Chekhov or Hemingway wrote something like this, it was still fairly unique, still had the chance to stand out amongst mere dozens of other authors. We grow up learning from these outdated examples from dozens and hundreds of years ago as if they're still relevant, but the truth is, if they lived today, they would never become famous. They would be just another person writing short stories criticizing the flaws of modern society, lost in the endless space of other authors.

If I wanted to express myself and make some money off of it, I'd rather become an indie film director, a game developer or a webcomic creator. All those mediums provide much more opportunies to more easily stand out and get recognition. But as a literary author, in the modern day, you are NOTHING. You are a grain of sand amongst countless other grains of sand amongts countless other beaches. I have no idea why anyone would ever deliberately want to uptake this Sisyphean labor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 06:43:43 2022 No.19831180 shut the fuck up

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 06:51:47 2022 No.19831197

>>19831147
It's the same for all the arts. If you want to become an artist but you don't draw porn or fanart or at least naked women or you're not trans or at least a woman, or you don't have a pedigree like going to a top academy or school no matter how boring your output is, and that of course implies that you have to advertise your pedigree and your politics constantly to appeal to 14 year old zoomers, it's over before you even start. The standard now is converging to pretending to be a 16 year old Japanese girl who likes every popular franchise of the week and draws big titty fanart of it for maximizing the simps.
I wish I could redirect all my energy into something harmful for humanity like being an attorney who defends megacorps from lawsuits but it's too late and my ethics prevent me. The resentment I have for people is eating me alive.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 06:51:47 2022 No.19831198

>>19831147

I don't think you realize the amount of garbage that was published in the times when the greats were around.

The main difference is that there are no greats around anymore. Probably the conditions are too dire for them to emerge, but it's not because many people are writing mediocre stuff now. It's actually because so much great stuff as been written already that it's hard to compete with the past. There's the difference. Literature as a continent has been vastly explored and it takes a LOT to explore uncharted territories. It would mean, first of all, a thorough knowledge and perception of literary history and art in general and an ability to incorporate it into a vision of 21st century life. This alone is an incredible feat of work and though. Not a person out of a million can achieve this. That's the main obstacle to contemporary valuable literature in my opinion. Not simply "the market".

> a game developer or a webcomic creator. All those mediums provide much more opportunies to more easily stand out and get recognition

Yeah, you're basically thinking in terms of recognition, no in terms of making great art, which is self-sacrificial in 99% and has nothing to do with the shitty industries you're talking about

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 06:54:09 2022 No.19831205 >>19831198 Dumb faggot cumbrain with bad faith arguments KYS. Starving artists did not exist before the Industrial age, it was a trade like another.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:00:26 2022 No.19831212

>>19831147
>We grow up learning from these outdated examples from dozens and hundreds of years ago as if they're still relevant, but the truth is, if they lived today, they would never become famous. They would be just another person writing short stories criticizing the flaws of modern society, lost in the endless space of other authors.

This makes no sense since almost no short story written today can stand up to a good Tchekov story. But the writing of Tchekov's stories is grounded in certain circumstances, meaning that imagining them being written and published now is as nonsensical as imagining the Internet coming into existence in 1912. It's pure mind fantasy.

That being said, if a collection of buried, previously uncollected Tchekov manuscripts is discovered and published tomorrow, yes it will get attention because of Tchekov's name BUT it will also be better than any crap published today. None of your zillion writers "criticizing the flaws of modern society" will be as good. So it's bullshit to say that examples from the past aren't relevant. They're relevant, but in a certain way, and it takes huge work and reflection to see how to follow in their footsteps. No one today does the work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:02:00 2022 No.19831216 >>19831205 > Starving artists did not exist before the Industrial age > it was a trade like another Sure, anon, before the industrial age, anyone who had a 'trade' was safe from starvation Fucking retard

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:05:40 2022 No.19831224

>>19831147
>When someone like Chekhov or Hemingway wrote something like this, it was still fairly unique, still had the chance to stand out amongst mere dozens of other authors
Yes, because at that point the market was incredibly saturated by authors still holding onto older Romantic ideas of what literature is. Try having some actual vision. The one prevailing theme among literary greats of all eras is nonconformity. Where conformity occurs, it's due to an overlap with, as opposed to adherence-to, convention. Cultivate and develop your own voice and your own preferences without regard for what everyone else is doing.

What you're really whining about is not the difficulty of success as an artist. Your problems are overwhelmingly with the difficulty of success as a professional. I would have more sympathy if you didn't conflate these two things with one another. It is categorically impossible for the market to become saturated with genuinely great artists, because they only come along every so often. They may or may not be recognized; if they aren't, maybe even for some of the reasons you're proposing. But for artists, this has literally always been the case. It's only really gotten harder for the highly commercialized "professional" authors to break into established genres whose most successful author-products have the weight of advertising machines behind them.

Otherwise, not much is all that different. Most people still can't write. If you have talent, try doing the rest of the legwork instead of lowering yourself to the standards of commercial success.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:08:47 2022 No.19831231

>>19831212
>That being said, if a collection of buried, previously uncollected Tchekov manuscripts is discovered and published tomorrow, yes it will get attention because of Tchekov's name BUT it will also be better than any crap published today.
Okay, what if you published them without revealing that they're Chekhov's and instead pretended they're by some modern author mimicking his style? Almost no one would give a shit, and the few people that did would probably act like snobs and criticize it, loudly and proudly reaffirming their bias that "no modern copycat of today could stand up to the greats of the past".

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:21:53 2022 No.19831264

>>19831212
>yes it will get attention because of Tchekov's name
doubt it except academia maybe
>it will also be better than any crap published today
surely
Thing is, Tchekov is dead. The reason why we do not have any Tchekovs in this era is that if Tchekov were born today, he'd be working at McDonald's and his work would be so far buried in a landslide of shitty YA literature that nobody will even know it exists. This is why people worry about "recognition" lol. Unless you're factoring in the pornographers, the very best a webcomic artist, or whatever that anon wants to be, can aspire to is below minimum wage. Almost every single successful webcomic artist in the West draws porn or panders to trannies. I can name maybe two who don't and earn a livable wage (something like less than $1k). This issue of becoming homeless in order to pursue a passion has never had to be dealt with in the history of art until the institution of the artistic rat race with the post-impressionists, Van Gogh who was a literal schizo picked up posthumously because of his tragic life, all the Bohemienne, etc. whose idea of success was basically some kind of lottery. A rat race. It's impossible at this point to divorce making art from finding a way to sell it so that at least you can live in poverty, because being a wagie literally destroys your soul, it's not just work, it breaks your creative spirit. But people refuse to pay a single cent for things now unless it's porn, and unless you find a way to gain attention you may as well not exist. People who still try simply do not understand that attention cannot be earned while preserving your integrity. Everyone is a whore and if you're not a whore too it's not worth it to try. This is why nobody even tries anymore. And I will also add that nobody should, because normalfags do not deserve anybody's earnest attempt at art. They should just choke on the trash they love so much.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:23:07 2022 No.19831269

>>19831231
Obviously, since most people rightfully think that there's no point simply copying someone from the past. However, if some experts happened to read the stories with no author name they would probably be baffled at how well it replicates Tchekov's time, society and concerns. I mean, if it really was by Tchekov, you'd actually be able to tell.
Lost paintings by great artists have been recognized like that in the past. At some point the right person sees it and goes "hang on, this really looks fucking genuine"

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:24:51 2022 No.19831273

>>19831216
I didn't imply this you fucking slime, I said that people saw art as a trade like another. It was not this shit where some peasant goes "Ahhh I'll die starving for my love of art!" No, retard, it was a trade. That's what I meant you stupid fuckface.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:27:24 2022 No.19831282 >>19831269 >However, if some experts lmao you mean the academics who think dead white men are boring?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:33:22 2022 No.19831293

>>19831273
Doesn't alter the fact that a trade is full of risks and subject to supply and demand. This didn't start with the industrial revolution.

Besides, no it was not always a trade like any other, so your argument is fucked from the start. A lot of great poetry was written by well-off men with private means of existence (no need to work). Some artists made a living from their art but some also made art for the pure sake of it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:35:13 2022 No.19831295 >>19831282 Sure, anon, 100% of academics in the world are just like that. Grow a fucking brain and a pair of eyes. There are literally dozens of books by academics published each year on Eliot, Joyce, Hardy, Dickens, whatever.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:38:40 2022 No.19831301

>>19831293
What I meant is that art was never seen as something that implied you'd have to starve. Yes any trade was a risk but in this, art was no different. Artists were artisans. Writing was obviously reserved to the higher rungs of society who were literate, and you say
>A lot of great poetry was written by well-off men with private means of existence (no need to work).
And those people didn't have to worry about where to get the money to live. Retard. If you want to get your art from the elites then read critical race theory and watch The Avengers.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:47:43 2022 No.19831320

>>19831301
> What I meant is that art was never seen as something that implied you'd have to starve.

It never did at any point as a general principle. The 'starving poet' situation has never been the ONLY accurate way to define what it is you're signing up for if you're going for art, even at romantic times.

Whether art is seen like that or not entirely depends on what kind of work we're talking about, the way it's done, what it's about, etc. Dickens was writing at peak of industrial revolution times, and his was very much a "trade", writing popular serials, isn't it? No starving poet, a tradesman. Yet he's indisputably a great artist. So your sweeping statements are pointless.

> If you want to get your art from the elites then read critical race theory and watch The Avengers.

This makes absolutely zero sense in the context of our argument.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 07:59:54 2022 No.19831345

>>19831320
Are you another anon and you misread my posts? My argument is that the artists who made all the great art of the past did not have to work with this idea that art would condemn them to starve, to make art "for the sake of art" and to "leave something to the world" or whatever faggotshit excuse people have for the state of art today. They made art very much as a trade. Of course when art became a competitive field there were also people who made art for the purpose of glory and money. This is covered by Tolstoy. In any case, art was made either by tradesmen who did it for a living, or people who did not have to worry about where to get money. It was never, until the recent rise of the rat race, something that you'd do in your "past-time". Now that people expect this, you have two things happening:
1) people do not make art anymore as a "past-time" because art is very time intensive, and it's fueled by a certain passion. Unless you're talking about coloring books for boomers, people are stopping to think of art as something you can do. And yes passion does die. It's not bulletproof and stress-proof. People want to think the artist is some kind of suicidal martyr. He is not, there is no thing in the human soul that can stand complete indifference for years and years and years. If you expect artists to write passionate high level work in their pasttime for you to consume for free, and on top of that also advertising themselves to you because you're obviously too lazy to look for literature yourself, all of this at their own expense, while enduring the success of whores and frauds, the abuse of cowards, theft, and so on, they will simply not fucking do it. It's a level of cucked that is beyond belief, you cannot expect people to do this.
Option 2) they just pander. Most likely, these people are not passionate about art. They have nothing to say, and they treat art as a job, sure, but not in the sense that they have to make a dignitous living with a trade. They instead know "how to market themselves" which is just pandering and sucking up to people and every indignity under the sun. The artist of today is a worker, yes, but he is a service worker, like a prostitute.
At this point people have condemned the arts to something that exceedingly wealthy people or absolutely ruthless people can pull off, and in both of these cases what you will get is cancer product-art that says nothing. Enjoy your porn, Avengers, gay hobbits, etc.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 08:19:31 2022 No.19831376

>>19831345
I'll cut the debate short because I find it rather long and pointless to address what I see as blind spots and leaps in your arguments.

Assuming you're the anon who wrote OP and >>19831264, you come across as too embittered and resentful to see beyond the problem of unattainable success. Passion does not have to die because you're not successful. If it does, it means success or recognition was the main drive. Well, it doesn't have to be. One CAN theoretically still dedicate oneself to art no matter the cost. Having to pay the cost of poverty and ungratefulness is NOT the only reason great writers are an almost extinct species in my opinion, but rather what I tried to outline here: >>19831198.

If they'd adopted the same attitude as you, people like Van Gogh, Rimbaud, Baudelaire or Keats would have not bothered creating anything. You mention Van Gogh as an example of a victim of the "rat-race", so I assume that following your own logic, you think Van Gogh was wrong to persevere at all and should have ended way earlier than he did. I don't. I bless the sky that Van Gogh carried on generously. Van Gogh is the winner, whereas shit popular panderers who "win" the rat-race by making crap are not - they're the real losers. As Jesus said, the first will be the last, etc.
It is NOT pointless to carry on trying. If you think so you're too deeply engulfed in nihilistic resentment, and too obsessed with your current immediate times and cultural surroundings (as indicated by your choking anger at avengers, gay hobbits, etc.)

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 08:45:03 2022 No.19831432

>>19831376
>Passion does not have to die because you're not successful. If it does, it means success or recognition was the main drive.
My passion died because when people give millions to pornographers and at thte same time tell me that I'm supposed to write a masterpiece in my spare time after I log off from my shitty job, then set up a social media account and advertise myself, which more often than not involves money, indignity and also making things that are specifically made to get attention, all of this so that they notice it and download it for free (because asking for $1 is "jewish") and then go radio silent whether they liked it or not because they think of me as something that comes with their internet bill, and only if I quit they say "why did you quit?!?!" - you know, when this is the attitude, I don't want to write to leave something to the world, I feel resentful. It's not just "failing to meet success" that kills passion, it's this general attitude of entitlement - "w-what you're trying to sell your ebook for $1 and not free? OH GOD YOU ARE DRIVEN BY THIRST FOR MONEY, YOU ARE NOT AN ARTIST!!! I WILL PIRATE IT JUST TO SPITE YOU, FUCK YOU, KIKE!!" you know? Do you understand how fucking infantile people are? There are only two ways one can feel inspired to serve manking in this situation: one, you're a literal cuck, someone who gets some sort of sexual relief from being abused by assholes, or two, you say "ok I'll pander as hard as I can and I'll make money lol" because as much as people refuse to pay a single dime for art, they will eaglerly shower pornographers and panderers in gold.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 08:48:56 2022 No.19831443

>>19831376
Also no I don't like Van Gogh, Baudelaire etc. I think their work is worthless and it was pretty much used by this new class of art sellers to push the novelty-based art that is in vogue today. I hate this idea that art needs to be always "new" and "exciting" or "controversial" or "shocking" which most often translates in something pornographic or pointless. Van Gogh was a random schizo who was elected as a poster child for a new grifter movement led by intellectual grifters like Gauguin.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:01:53 2022 No.19831468

>>19831376
>Having to pay the cost of poverty and ungratefulness is NOT the only reason great writers are an almost extinct species in my opinion
Your opinion is that "perhaps the situation is too dire for greats to emerge" and I explained why it's too dire. The framework of the arts only rewards the absolute worst grifters and punishes integrity and truth. The arts have become a service industry, they do not bridge a gap between man and man but exist as any other commerce, demand and offer. The public wants big titties and you give them big titties, they don't give a fuck about the bridge and in fact they'd be uncomfortable if you tried to pull it off. I think you're romanticizing money and you have the usually attitude of young leftists who never tried to produce anything but only pirated things to consume, and because artists on Twitter seem to talk this way, they think that money is the worst thing in the world and every time it's mentioned it's as if someone mentioned Satan. Asking to be paid for what you worked on does not make you a soulless capitalist shark. If you cannot write to bridge that gap, or people have disappointed you so much that you do not even want to bridge that gap anymore, it's no use to make art. And people not only are unreachable but they have built walls around themselves because they absolutely do not want any bridges to be built. What you are supposed to do is hand them a big fat dildo through a slit in the wall and then fuck off. That's your "art".
>Van Gogh was wrong to persevere at all
Van Gogh lived at the expense of his brother. His brother allowed him to do so. My brother wouldn't allow it, and I wouldn't accept to live on my brother's shoulders. I'd rather die. Van Gogh was excused from this behavior because he was a schizo, though. And the only reason why he became what he became was literally, the marketing efforts of ruthless grifters who sold him off.
>It is NOT pointless to carry on trying
What will I gain? That someone will find my manuscript on my desk after I blow my brains out because I'm jobless, and make a LGBT friendly Netflix series out of it?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:07:43 2022 No.19831480

>>19831376
>As Jesus said, the first will be the last, etc.
Lastly, don't bring Jesus into this. What he was talking about is the reign of God. He made it very clear that the realm of man works differently that this Earth works. So unless you believe in God, you should indeed believe that the last will stay last, and the first will stay first, because this is how this world works.
Sorry for the multiple posts but I'm on the phone and I hate posting on it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:09:44 2022 No.19831486 Didn't read, cool pic, return to monkey haha

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:15:24 2022 No.19831502 >>19831197 fan art is not art at all

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:16:47 2022 No.19831508 >>19831147 OP you're just butthurt that no one will reward you for your mediocrity. try being a better writer!

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:17:20 2022 No.19831511

>>19831198
>The main difference is that there are no greats around anymore. Probably the conditions are too dire for them to emerge, but it's not because many people are writing mediocre stuff now. It's actually because so much great stuff as been written already that it's hard to compete with the past.
It will be much easier to determine who were the greats of our era a century from now. I see no reason why humans should suddenly have stopped producing them

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:19:06 2022 No.19831516 >>19831432 wow, can a human being be more cucked than this? the world wonders

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:23:11 2022 No.19831525

>>19831502
And yet, ironically, it's much easier to get validation, recognition and self-realization from doing fanart and fanfiction. It places you into the boundaries of a relatively small established community, which is far easier to study to see what is in high demand and what is lacking in supply. It also usually gives you a solid base in the form of the original creation to work with and expand into your own themes and ideas.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:29:40 2022 No.19831540

>>19831525
>validation, recognition and self-realization
None of these things have even the most passing, tangential relationship with art. No combination of these elements will imply art. A piece of art does not imply the existence of any one of these elements nor any combination thereof. There exists, I'm sure, somewhere on this planet, a person or group of persons who would validate, encourage, and promote a watery shit you expelled into a dirty toilet bowl. They might jerk off and fantasize what it'd be like to be your toilet and beg you for more pictures of your feces. You, among this small group of shit enthusiasts, might be recognized as a celebrity shit taker. You might feel actualized and fulfilled and validated and recognized based on the shits you take. Unfortunately, this doesn't make you an artist. Your shit isn't art. And neither is your fucking fan fiction.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:31:03 2022 No.19831542 >>19831540 What is art?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:34:24 2022 No.19831550 >>19831542 I don't know. I do, however, know that it has no relationship with validation, recognition, or self-realization.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:53:42 2022 No.19831589

>>19831550
Art is communication, a bridge between people. If you do it as a trade or a hobby it doesn't matter, except that art takes time so the latter is almost impossible. What art is not is a service.
>>19831502
"Fan" art is just parasitic marketing. Again this has superseded art. Tolstoy laments this.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 09:56:13 2022 No.19831596

>>19831525
>It also usually gives you a solid base in the form of the original creation
whatever you think is art that is born from what you describe is just a service industry for the senses. Nobody who starts off with fanart makes "art" afterwards. Because of this reframing, art as communication is dead forever, just like love has been reframed into sexual lust.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 10:25:56 2022 No.19831646 >>19831502 Why not?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 10:39:58 2022 No.19831677

>>19831646
Not him but it always acts as franchise worship when it's well-intentioned, e.g. nobody ever makes "fanart" of, say, Dostoevsky's work unless an adaptation is coming out. It's something inherent to "fandoms". Then it never handles the subject matter respectfully. It's on the contrary always an enforcement of "death of the author". Whenever it's not just about parodying or looking at a character with lust, and it actually tries to "create" new material, it always does this not to edify the original work but on the contrary satisfy the wants of the "fandom" e.g. having two straight male characters bugger each other. In the worst case which is what happens 99% of the time it's straight up parasitism. You see something trending and you just parasitize it by drawing porn or whatever. Whenever someone dies these "artists" try to evaluate if it's worth it to draw a "tribute" or just draw another fanart of the whore of the week instead. These are the people who are supposed to speak to the heart of mankind.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:02:35 2022 No.19831745 You ever feel like devaluing and dismissing everything the modern world has to offer all while romanticizing the eras you never lived in doesn't make you a happier person?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:04:18 2022 No.19831751 >>19831745 It has nothing to do with being happy. I don't want ways to cope, I only want truth and I really wish anyone had an argument to offer except lies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:09:55 2022 No.19831772 >>19831677 >e.g. nobody ever makes "fanart" of, say, Dostoevsky's work unless an adaptation is coming out. https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Prestuplenie%20i%20nakazanie%20%7C%20Crime%20and%20Punishment%20-%20Fyodor%20Dostoyevsky/works

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:12:24 2022 No.19831783 >>19831677 What if I really like a character from some work, not just her appearance but also what she represents, and I like drawing her in various scenarios?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:17:00 2022 No.19831795

>>19831751
The truth is that if you think Van Gogh or Baudelaire are worthless you probably know jackshit about art. How about actually getting initiated into art before you rant against the market and porn (the latter of which you clearly have a problem with)

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:17:07 2022 No.19831796

>>19831772
>>19831783
Don't care about your cherrypicked shit and I don't click on links. I assume whatever images are there are taken from illustrated editions of the book, of which there are hundreds, or it's "ironic" deconstructivist garbage. I'm covering 99.999% of cases.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:17:59 2022 No.19831801 >>19831796 I just linked a page with 68 fanfictions based on Crime and Punishment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:18:19 2022 No.19831803 >>19831795 Tolstoy knows shit about art then, because he thinks the same about Baudelaire.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:18:34 2022 No.19831805 >>19831511 People in the 1920s already knew that Proust or D.H. Lawrence were important just as we do now. The "wait a century" argument is shit

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:19:42 2022 No.19831810 >>19831801 68 fanfictions exist, ok. And?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:20:18 2022 No.19831813

>>19831803
> Tolstoy knows shit about art then

Well, yes. See what he says about Shakespeare too.
Tolstoy is the like the worst authority you can go to for that matter. A genius writer and thinker but reflections on art were not his forte, as he had a problem with the notion of art itself and therefore was a poor judge of it from the inside.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:20:25 2022 No.19831814 File: 6 KB, 204x63, rule 34.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:23:08 2022 No.19831828 >>19831813 He's entirely correct. It was hard to accept for me too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:23:30 2022 No.19831829 >>19831803 Anon I advise to read a bit of George Steiner. See 'Grammars of Creation' or 'Real Presences'. It would probably do you good. Check out his essay on Tolstoy in "No Passion Spent" as well.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:25:31 2022 No.19831835
File: 611 KB, 601x567, 7FF3C103-A000-4BFA-96B9-19EA85AEB36F.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19831432
Holy fucking kek
It’s precisely because people ask for money for heir art that art died.
The commercialization of art is what causes grifters to flock to it and put out low effort trash, whatever nets them the most money for he least amount of effort.
Information wants to be free, if art was free we would see a substantial increase in quality since all the grifters would bail when they realize they can’t make a quick buck on it anymore.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:28:50 2022 No.19831848 >>19831805 Rachel Cusk is a greater and more important writer than DH Lawrence. Happy now?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:30:01 2022 No.19831855 >>19831835 Bullshit commie perspective refuted by facts, kys.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:34:01 2022 No.19831865 >>19831829 No thanks I don't read Jewish propagandists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:36:07 2022 No.19831873 >>19831810 That means there is a fandom for Dostoevsky's work. And it's no different from any other fandom.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:42:55 2022 No.19831899

>>19831805
>>19831511
The only modern literary writer I can tell you I know of is Houellebecq and I don't see him lasting a century. I haven't seen any notable literary author rise up since at least the 80s. I would think a name that is bound to become famous would have emerged in the literary consciousness by now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:49:23 2022 No.19831928 >>19831873 68 fanfictions in the whole fucking world please tell me how many undertale fanfictions you see, so we have a comparison with a mildly popular summer hit?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 11:52:19 2022 No.19831939

>>19831928
If it needs to be literary let me think of something popular but not too popular: the name of the wind. How many? Just to compare the fandom of a timeless classic with internet memes that will be forgotten in 5 years. You brought this up as proof, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:31:56 2022 No.19832130 >>19831939 Literature is inherently less popular than other media, do you really expect a book released 15 years ago to have a massive following?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:33:56 2022 No.19832141 >>19831147 become a youtuber and use the channel to shill your writing

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:34:06 2022 No.19832143

>>19831899
Well, there are a couple of other names, but none that can match the importance that the greats had even in their own time.

Krasznahorkai is often brought up too, but I don't find what I've read by him very significant.
Pynchon? I guess Bleeding Edge is about the turn of the century, but how good is it actually? He'll probably mostly become (and already is) a meme.

In England, you've got McEwan, Ishiguro. Normie harmless stuff.

In France you sometimes hear of Pierre Michon, but he's boring as fuck, and not particularly 21st century. Nabe is very good and writes about current times but unknown outside France and big chunks of his work are potentially untranslatable/uninteresting to anglos.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:38:40 2022 No.19832161 >>19832143 Are Pelevin and Sorokin known in the Western world?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:40:01 2022 No.19832165 >>19832143 just stop talking about authors you’ve clearly never read & go pick up a book for once

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:54:54 2022 No.19832233 >>19832130 Crime and Punishment? I'm willing to bet that TNOTW dwarfs it in terms of fandom.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 12:59:33 2022 No.19832248 >>19831147 Nice book. You should get it published asap

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:05:16 2022 No.19832270 >>19832165 I've read at least one book by every author I've mentioned. Why don't you give us your 21st pantheon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:19:22 2022 No.19832330 >>19831677 Tolkien's work has had a whole lot of "fanart". It doesn't detract from the art at all. Seems rather arbitrary that a painting should be inherently worse just because it was based on existing work

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:20:44 2022 No.19832336 >>19831197 >being an attorney who defends megacorps from lawsuits Nothing wrong with that

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:23:20 2022 No.19832343

>>19831805
Why do you think your statement is incompatible with mine? Both can be true at the same time. Plenty of people have been deemed great some time after their death. It's always easier to know who falls into that category when you have historical context and a more focused overview. Hell, the definition itself is dubious as hell, don't you think?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:32:25 2022 No.19832387

>>19832343
Granted, but in previous times you had great writers that were recognized quickly AND the greats that were to be recognized later.

The first category is clearly absent today. So the old argument of "we'll have a clearer view later" is rather suspicious to me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:35:04 2022 No.19832396 >>19832330 Literally none of that "fan"art would have existed had LOTR not been turned into a franchise, and Tolkien is rolling in his grave for what his "fandom" has brought upon his work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:43:10 2022 No.19832434 >>19832396 I find Tolkien slow and boring. Am I just doomed? Are you supposed to force yourself to read?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:47:50 2022 No.19832454 >>19832434 No, you are allowed to dislike Tolkien.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:49:44 2022 No.19832466

>>19832387
It might in part be due to the sheer amount of information and authors available. Great people could have acted more as lightning rods compared to today. The opportunity for people to get their work out into the world was far more limited than it is now. If Nietzsche had lived today, his work might have been lost in the sea of content we have available to us. That's not to say your point is without merit. Rome has a reputation for being a society that created a disproportional amount of great men. But there are still geniuses of all kinds being born. Physiologically humans haven't really changed that much in the timespan between now and all of history's greatest thinkers

You might be familiar with someone like Jordan Peterson, since he's very popular these days. Many of his fans proclaim him a great man of the modern age. Time will tell if that has merit, but then that also depends on what defines being a great man. Do you consider some scientists great men, btw?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:52:20 2022 No.19832481 >>19832434 I think it's a question of being in a certain mindset or loving the same sort of things that Tolkien did. You largely shouldn't read LOTR if you're looking for dialogue spoken between actual people, for example

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 13:55:33 2022 No.19832492

>>19832434
Also you might already be familiar with his stories. If you watched the movies first then the excitement of uncovering the LOTR story is gone. And if you don't like history books, or at least not about fictional worlds, then you probably won't like the Silmarillion

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 14:15:46 2022 No.19832601 >>19832466 Jordan Peterson is selling custom rugs on the internet. He's inches away from managing his daughter's onlyfans

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 14:19:17 2022 No.19832619 >>19832601 Okay

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 14:21:03 2022 No.19832627 >>19831147 >do you really believe you have anything unique to say that the literal HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of other people who now have access to writing have not already said Yes

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 14:26:48 2022 No.19832654 >>19832627 you forgot the part where 7 bil people are not interested anyway

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 14:28:33 2022 No.19832659 >>19832654 Didn't ask, don't care.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 14:34:14 2022 No.19832682 >>19831677 This happens so much in the Pathologic community. I feel bad for the developers.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 15:18:55 2022 No.19832879

Why obsess over creating masterpieces and getting fame and fortune? It's not for you to decide anyways. Just write stories that are meaningful to (you) and draw upon your personal experiences. Maybe you'll find yourself part of contemporary history in your local community at least one day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 15:20:02 2022 No.19832882 >>19832879 >below min wage so you can live >FAME AND FORTUNE

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 15:22:47 2022 No.19832896 >>19831147 Why do you think I just chose it?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 15:36:14 2022 No.19832964

>>19832882
Writing litterature simply isn't a day job. It's a hobby that can grow into a career, not something you can slap 5 bucks an hour on. Even if you get a big break and can live off your books, it's uncomparable to wage slaving where you NEVER get anywhere.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 15:41:04 2022 No.19832987

>>19832964
>Writing litterature simply isn't a day job.
Then OP is right. Why should I waste my time on it? If I want to spend time and effort volunteering I'll do it for an animal shelter. I can allocate that money, time and effort and commitment to a single dog and I'll know that I will have done tangible good. What's the fucking point of writing stories when the internet will never give a fuck. Why sink all that precious life of mine into a literal black hole?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 15:55:33 2022 No.19833055 >>19832987 Write if you want to write. Obviously

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 16:21:33 2022 No.19833205

>>19833055
What kind of stupid thing this is? I also want to punch people in the face sometimes. Will it make my life better? Not likely, so I don't do it. It's against my interests. I might feel momentary satisfaction but ultimately, I will either get stabbed or arrested and things will be worse for me. You know what would make me actually punch someone in the face? The idea that this will change something, that I might save someone, or myself, or improve the situation around me. Then I would do it, but obviously this is not a factor. Same with writing, if it's ultimately pointless, if nobody is there on the other end, if it's pretty much a waste of energy, all to say "yeah I've published a story" or even just finished it, and it's now in a stupid drawer for nobody to see or give a fuck about, then what is the point? What a stupid, stupid way to answer.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 16:36:26 2022 No.19833278

>>19833205
If you care enough to write, then write. If you want to write to make money, then accept the high risk that it is. If you just want someone to read it, then post a free link to it on /lit/. If the amount of enjoyment you get out of writing is dependent on how many eyes see it, then it may be less about any passion of writing, and more about recognition. It's not a stupid answer, because why would you want to be an author if you don't want to write regardless of external circumstance?

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:07:29 2022 No.19833425
File: 51 KB, 1002x843, 1633111439679.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19831147
This. I've wasted years on a novel I can't get published because it has sexism, racism and sexual sadism. Ellis was right when he said he couldn't get American Psycho published today.

>>	Kant Goblino Sat Jan 29 17:11:28 2022 No.19833439 >>19831197 >the resentment I have for people is eating me alive Oh how fucking relatable

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:15:57 2022 No.19833458

>>19831147
That's pretty much all art. I wanted to be an artist but somewhere into my 20's I quickly realized that art doesn't mean shit, and most people don't take it seriously anyways. It's all empty screaming into the void. A meaningless gesture. You should do it if you really need validation from pretentious fart sniffers that make you weant to cave their face in after talking to them for 2 minutes. Just do something else with your life. Make money nad find yourself a good woman if you can, so you can at least die comfortably.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:22:49 2022 No.19833484

Every single thing that isn't written by a white male is garbage.
And as long as we keep pretending that random negro Mtumbo N'gechembe from Ivory Coast's new novel of the week about colonialism and "the struggle" is even remotely on the same level as Milton or Wordsworth, then we will keep living in a stagnant degenerating niggerfied society with no art and no beauty.
And the fact that this comment will get me banned for saying the truth proves that the change won't happen for a while.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:27:52 2022 No.19833510

>>19833484
You don't need to fall over the other side of the horse, chinks, poos, rezas, ayyrabs, and so on all wrote interesting and worthwhile works over the course of history.

Hell I bet even nig literature has its gems, only that you're probably going to find it in ethiopian christian works written in ge'ez that are extremely rarely translated, and not in the 1000 mile vicinity of the United States.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:33:06 2022 No.19833533 >>19833510 Chinks might actually be not human. Like literally and unironically. The fact that you would even suggest they can create something beautiful is laughable to me. But I'll still for someone from the East to write something above a 6/10.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:34:13 2022 No.19833540
File: 29 KB, 650x635, 5a8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I visit /lit/ and /ic/ and I'm absolutely flabbergasted by people who want to make a quick buck. The two boards are unironically dumber than /v/ when it comes down to how you should live your life, no one there is obsessed about becoming a streamer or plays vidya for money.

Get a real skill and work for the sake of it

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:36:29 2022 No.19833557 >>19833540 >I visit /lit/ and /ic/ and I'm absolutely flabbergasted by people who want to make a quick buck. writing good books takes insane time and discipline. god forbid anyone would want any sort of reward for it, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:39:52 2022 No.19833575 >>19833557 That's just not how value is calculated

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:40:59 2022 No.19833581 >>19833575 shut the fuck up, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:45:48 2022 No.19833604 >>19833557 Nobody cares about your yaoi fanfic shit, I don't care how long you worked at it. People in this thread are plebs. There are so many grants and residences if you are actually talented

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:47:39 2022 No.19833610 >>19833604 I'm a white guy that writes transgressive antiestablishment shit, so I might as well be a nazi.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:47:41 2022 No.19833611 >>19833581 Hey anon, I don't like it either but "creators" shouldn't get handouts just because. Average person in general deserves more than they're getting

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:48:50 2022 No.19833618 You don't know what you're talking about. You should do some research before spouting complete nonsense like this.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:49:18 2022 No.19833623

>>19833278
>If you want to write to make money
stop it, retard. god fucking damnit
>if you want to be a doctor to save people, you should do it for free! In fact, you should buy the syringes and the gauzes and the scalpel and the equipment all out of your own pocket without ever asking for any kind of retribution. When the patient wakes up after you replaced his fucking heart flawlessly, he will not even look at you in the face or say "thanks fag" but belch loudly in your face, then walk away still in his green coat and immediately pay the whore down the street for a blowjob and the crack dealer for a fix. If you are not happy with this you are a disgusting mercenary!!!
And I say: die on the sidewalk while frothing and vomiting, I don't want to be a doctor if you are my patient.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:49:32 2022 No.19833624 >>19833610 >transgressive antiestablishment shit Your lack of success is down to your lack of talent, not your subject matter.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:50:43 2022 No.19833630 >>19833624 whatever you say.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:50:46 2022 No.19833632 >>19833624 this is bait, it's impossible to believe this and be intelligent enough to solve a captcha

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:51:50 2022 No.19833638 >>19833624 ask yourself which establishment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:52:03 2022 No.19833641 >>19833623 Aha. Regardless, those are your choices

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 17:59:26 2022 No.19833679 >>19833604 >There are so many grants and residences not for white devils.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:05:15 2022 No.19833712 >>19831147 Didn't read.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:18:11 2022 No.19833791 >>19833712 You're kinda proving my point

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:20:00 2022 No.19833798 >>19833611 What a sociopathic worldview.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:25:19 2022 No.19833823 >>19833791 Go write a screenplay and huff your own farts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:35:42 2022 No.19833874 File: 323 KB, 526x455, 1643159001989.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19833798 All lives matter

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:38:51 2022 No.19833887 >>19833484 >>19833533 Cringe imbecile child

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:41:14 2022 No.19833904 File: 43 KB, 331x500, 51-KH9CL1SL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >I'M TOO WEAK TO COMPETE AAAAAAARRGHGH yes you are

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:56:02 2022 No.19833988

>>19831147
Sounds to me you're aiming too high. The greats were exceptional writers who had and still have lots of fans because they were just that good. You're pretending to be like them. Not gonna happen, but so long as you will get even a few hundreds or even a thousand people to follow you for your stuff then it'll have been worth the time to write it.
But really you should do this for yourself. I draw and have long stopped posting anything online, and guess what I don't mind, in fact I don't even have to worry about whether people are gonna like my shit or not, I just draw whatever the fuck I want, now THAT is TRUE art, i.e. the act of expressing your true self AND an acceptable degree of technical prowess. No, making three cuts on a canvas is not art fuck off. Doing drawings makes me feel good, that's the only thing that should really matter to you, the act of creating itself. It gives a special kind of pride knowing that which you just created didn't exist before, but now it does by your hand. It's satisfying to see yourself improve too, become better at your craft. Besides, the greats didn't become great overnight, they were shit too when they started make no mistake, and they used the same time we wasted posting this drivel to hone their craft, grinding.
Lastly, have you had a job before in your life? I'm asking because you sound like you want to live off your craft. Would be possible only if you were THAT good, but otherwise your art will flourish only as a hobby, otherwise you'll just get needlessly frustrated that art isn't earning you anything money wise. It's not meant to and it shouldn't be your focus

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 18:58:59 2022 No.19834007 >>19833988 I've drawn today but it's something I do as a reflex. I'm still extremely sad that I no longer believe I can make art that will touch other people. Telling yourself that you're making art for art's sake is a coping mechanism.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:00:12 2022 No.19834013
File: 8 KB, 225x225, 1643181807760.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19834007
>I'm still extremely sad that I no longer believe I can make art that will touch other people. Telling yourself that you're making art for art's sake is a coping mechanism.
It's like listening to myself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:08:09 2022 No.19834070 >>19833540 Biggest truth pill of all. Everyone just wants to be famous today.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:11:48 2022 No.19834089 File: 363 KB, 1080x835, 1ef.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19831147 >There is absolutely no point ah dang it what should we do now?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:12:36 2022 No.19834090 >>19834070 not famous. just know that your work is actually seen and making people respond to it. what else is the point? might as well not bother and leave it in my head.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:13:29 2022 No.19834095 >>19834089 fucking kek that pic

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:18:03 2022 No.19834114 >>19831147 I reject your findings and impose my own delusions on reality.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:28:53 2022 No.19834184
File: 431 KB, 640x791, 1643463845303.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19834090
That's only because you don't know how to grade your writing and therefore see any progress. Seeing how your work has evolved can be a great motivator.

Just look at pic related. I'm sure the guy who drew it was shit for long time and had to sustain his hobby purely by seeing his skills grow. Yes, you can enjoy drawing and writing but you need something to motivate you to get better.

What you're lacking is sense of accomplishment that can come from inward, depending on the craft. And even though I can think up vivid images, imagine different stories and even create short segments of music doesn't mean they're any good. Everything you imagine feels perfect because it's in your head

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:29:20 2022 No.19834195

>>19834090
There's no reasoning with them. If you want to at least get the money for paper and ink back, you're greedy. If you want anybody to actually know that your shit exists, you're an attention whore. We're in the consumer era, people cannot think as people anymore, just as consumers vs producers of goods and when they're talking to a no-name producer they just spew all their fetishistic consumer fantasies. They want everything free and now and no strings attached and fuck you. You literally exist as a service that comes with the internet bill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:30:41 2022 No.19834204 >>19834184 do you realize that people don't read anime avatar faggots? >I'm sure the guy who drew it was shit for long time he's still shit and he probably draws some kind of porn for money fuck off with your garbage pedo cartoons

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:37:24 2022 No.19834250 [DELETED]

>>19834195
Thank God! Nice to see someone with common sense itt. You always just know that that these faggots that tell you to "just do it for free" don't actually make anything for themselves. They just try to shame you with these pretentious "artistic values" that were started by coping failed artists in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:38:39 2022 No.19834262 >>19834204 Why the fuck would I give a shit about if you read my message or not? You could kill yourself and I wouldn't care. I reply to posts because I like writing posts and correct people online

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:39:51 2022 No.19834273 >>19834262 you don't get to correct people. fix your brain damage then talk

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:41:44 2022 No.19834285 File: 92 KB, 1200x1200, 5e91f9da77ea7f3d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19834273 Already did, you're a faggot and should gitgud before complaining

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:45:06 2022 No.19834299 >>19831147 The post that debunked /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:48:18 2022 No.19834314 >>19834285 lmao a furfag and a weeb

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:49:06 2022 No.19834318 >>19834299 In what way?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:49:41 2022 No.19834323 >>19834250 You're hopeless and completely beyond help. I've worked in publishing, give me your name so I can blacklist you

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:54:27 2022 No.19834349

>>19831198
1 - Many "Greats" were not realized in their time, meaning the greatest literature of NOW might not be realized for another 20 years, at which time, someone will make your same comment again.

2 - if someone were an amazing, fantastic genius writer today, they would probably be discovered quickly and paid tons of money to write for television, hence the quality of TV shows rising rapidly as Film and Literature decline.

3 - Boo Hoo crybaby mentality. Some worthless patent clerk doing crossword puzzles on the bus home from work might come up with the theory of general relativity tomorrow and break the whole world. There was a day which existed before your favorite book of all time was published. Maybe that's next week for someone. Chill your tits, my mans.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:56:00 2022 No.19834363 >just do it for nothing bro. why do you need people to see your shit? that's selfish and means that you just want validation. all reak art should just be created and locked away in a vault, never to be seen.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:56:21 2022 No.19834365

>>19834349
>Many "Greats" were not realized in their time
none were 100% obscure to say the least
>if someone were an amazing, fantastic genius writer today, they would probably be discovered quickly
not if they're not compliant with the publishing industry or the wishes of the public
>hence the quality of TV shows rising rapidly
YWNBAW

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 19:58:38 2022 No.19834374

>>19834363
>all reak art should just be created and locked away in a vault, never to be seen.
you know what they say when you tell them that you're not going to show anything to anybody?
>Why don't you publish it?? If you don't want to publish it, it's probably shit
I love it so much, sour grapes AND entitlement

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:02:32 2022 No.19834390

>>19834349
>Identity politics don't exist.
>Anything that doesn't fit the narrative can still get published, as long as it's high in quality. Quality is still the number one priority these days.
>TV and film aren't declining in quality due to incompetent diversity hires. It's actually going up!
Is this bait?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:08:10 2022 No.19834420 >>19834390 more likely a marxist discord tranny

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:10:27 2022 No.19834435

>>19834420
it seems like trannies have every flavor of retardation, there are hardcore marxist trannies, but also weirdly pro status quo pro neoliberalism trannies who border on transhumanists except it's about how network television and tiktok are making everything better

what is it with trannies and going out of their way to take the most wrong thing they can find AND be an extremist about it? why not be an extremist about something good, or at least not be an extremist about something retarded

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:11:05 2022 No.19834438

I think the internet in its current advanced form has pretty much de-localised many if not most people. Before now a writer would only really have intimate knowledge of his immediate surroundings (or places he traveled to; travel being still quite rare) and his book would often find an immediate readership in that region before being considered for wider national / international attention by those at the top of the literary food chain. Today many people live much of their lives online, where something happening in Wisconsin is presented to them as being about as relevant to them as something happening a few miles away.

Additionally, pretty much everybody writes in a public forum now to a theoretically unlimited audience (tweets, facebook posts, etc) so the idea of one person wanting to write a "post" that is one hundred times as long as somebody else comes across to many as selfish not to mention a waste of time. Before people had no real ability to represent themselves or see themselves represented, and so looked to and promoted those from their ethnic / national / regional community who did that. Now, everybody is doing that to some degree while the bonds to this ethnic / regional group are weakening due to the ability to just find one's tiny online niche (e.g., roleplaying games, crypto) and spend time with others from that niche.

The pre-internet could be said to represent an era of Mandatory Community whereas the internet is a period of Voluntary Community, meaning that one's style of clothes, vocabulary, frame of reference etc is now global (or perhaps, Americanised) in essence and is not solidly rooted in any kind of meatspace context.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:14:12 2022 No.19834452 >>19834438 >whereas the internet is a period of Voluntary Community That's urbanized industrial life. The internet is No Community.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:16:26 2022 No.19834459 hey nerds, imageboards are for images not essays

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:17:46 2022 No.19834468 File: 51 KB, 245x290, 1642883950208.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19831147 Let's get the psychobillies out

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:19:45 2022 No.19834475

>>19834374
you have no fucking idea. I know a moron (that I only still see here and there because our families have been close for a long time) thst keeps saying shit to me like:
>why are you so stressed about this book? why do you need publishing? just write it for yourself and your bro's, bro! you some poser or some shit? no I don't feel like giving feedback on what you've got I'll read it when it's finished.
and then turns around and pesters me with his shitty love ballads that all go something like:
>oh my baby, miss my baby, love my baby
while trying to sucker me into starting a band with him, si he can rent a studio and split the costs. fuck that piece of shit.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:25:08 2022 No.19834489

>>19834435
During my own transition, I really sought validation and so I befriended many self-proclaimed "trans people" online. I think this desperation is something pretty much every person nowadays on the internet. Most trannies as opposed to real transsexuals are insanely autistic autogyne-/autoändrophilic perverts; this is why so many male trannies are "lesbians" and why so many female trannies are "gay for cock". The type of autist who would transition to, either intentionally or not, satisfy their own sexual desires due to the internet is also the type of autist to adopt extreme leftist views due to the internet. They conform to what they see the other trannies doing. We who are actually medically gender dysphoric and transition to ease the burden of an insanely potent mental nagging about your body and place in society since a young age have a much higher success rate of not falling into this trap. If you know an actual transsexual, they usually fall across the political spectrum at random, with a slight correlation to liberalism. Trannies, much like anyone else faking an awful mental disorder, are always lefists, because a) the left is what allows their motivations to prosper, and b) the left is where every other tranny is. They must conform.

It's a very cliché wish, but I would vastly prefer to have been a transsexual during the late 20th-century as opposed to now. Quality of life and treatments for gender dysphoria were significantly worse, but people got by, and there wasn't a freakishly disproportionate amount of Reddit-level autists around either.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:25:59 2022 No.19834492

>>19834475
in the end everyone just wants a piece of something
everyone in these discussions is simply acting in his own interest, and since the consumer to maker or what you want to call it ratio is a hundred to one you'll hear this childish bullshit every time. In the end you do things if you have the means to do them and sustain. People will never accept this at this point, they just want art as pornography and other prostitution. Better to focus on other endeavors.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:26:53 2022 No.19834498 >>19834475 The chad love ballad writing retard vs the virgin angry writer anon It was always already over.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:27:01 2022 No.19834500 >>19834489 >During my own transition, nobody cares. you play victim while you love to power trip on innocent people. your whole kind is rotten to the bone

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:32:34 2022 No.19834520

>>19831468
wow man, you are, at the same time, brilliant in your critiques but too resentful, in the end that ideas sounds just like a big rationalization of your own failure. its like you have to shit van gogh because you want to be van gogh and you cant. your forced realism™ eats allive all your idealization and spirit and that is bad.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:37:40 2022 No.19834539

>>19834498
Nah. He's a joke, and everyone that I know thinks he's a joke as well. He constantly talk sbout his shitty music and thinks that taking months to write a shitty pop song is sonething to brag about. We almost got into a drunken fist fight after he argued that him writing a song is equivalent to me writing a novel at a friend's bbq.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:42:18 2022 No.19834560

>>19834520
>its like you have to shit van gogh because you want to be van gogh
False, I wanted to be a modest tradesman. I don't dream of glory and posterity. I just wanted a chance to do a good job at something I loved, but people's attitude has beaten this will out of me. I never failed, it was people who failed me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:45:49 2022 No.19834578 >>19834539 I just wanted to make a Chad and virgin joke tbqh. Good luck with your writing anon

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:54:48 2022 No.19834627

>>19834578
>convoluted story that nobody understands
>writes daily, did not publish
>thinks more words are better
>not going to be a summer hit
>gets violent

>simple lyrics understandable by all
>takes his time, published several songs
>just as good as a novel
>definitely going to be a summer hit
>gets all the girls

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 20:58:30 2022 No.19834645

>>19834560
>at something I loved
the others fail at themselves not at you. and you fail to yourself to let them get inside you. anyway im not saying you have to be this art martyr you more or less effectively criticized. i dont know what you should do. but your vision of literature or art should be one your own. i know the others fuck around and can sink you but in the end you let them sink you too
i hate fucking self-help shit and this sounds a little like that, but i genuinely believe in human communication through art even if is shit most of the time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 21:07:09 2022 No.19834704 >>19834627 Kek.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 21:08:52 2022 No.19834718

>>19834645
>i genuinely believe in human communication through art
I do no longer. I agree with you that you shouldn't let others' failures toward you influence your decisions about your own life, but in the case of things that imply another human at the other end, like art, or love, or things like that, it's impossible to continue when you've given up believing in the other or when there is no other at all. All that is left is using this bridge to express negativity and fire a gun into the void, but I do not believe in that. It's not what I wanted to do.

Anonymous Sat Jan 29 21:55:10 2022 No.19834914

>>19834718
>it's impossible to continue when you've given up believing in the other or when there is no other at all. All that is left is using this bridge to express negativity and fire a gun into the void, but I do not believe in that. It's not what I wanted to do.
Beautifully said. In the exact same boat. I wanted to create for others, not just myself. What's the point of trying when you're surounded by cynical consoomers that don't care or repond to nuance and sincerity in any way? They just want to be spoonfed the most cookie cutter and digestible slop so they can move on without the inconvenience of having to think about it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 29 22:07:32 2022 No.19834959 >>19831147 I would tell myself this too if I either too much of a coward to put my stuff out there or too much of a conceited dick brain that I couldn’t tell that all those rejections might mean my stuff needs some work. I hope you get well soon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 01:25:47 2022 No.19835849 blackpilled thread.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 02:57:42 2022 No.19836054 >>19834959 >that I couldn’t tell that all those rejections might mean my stuff needs some work oh yeah because the people getting published are masters of the craft. reminder that 50 shades is the best selling book of all time in the UK.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 03:05:24 2022 No.19836075 File: 99 KB, 319x319, 23.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19834349 this is literally (you) my friend

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 03:12:22 2022 No.19836096 >>19836075 is there really a link to someone's social media on a fucking soijak is it possible to mass report these parasites so twitter takes them down?

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 03:12:34 2022 No.19836097

>>19831147
correct me if im wrong

writing is a vocation. you write with maybe FANTSIES of impacting larger society. but the possibility of failure does not hinder you from writing. because it's the daemon pouring from you. it's the same compulsion of self-expression as a child screaming.

that being said, i'm surprised writers are so hung up on publishers. underground musicians nowadays don't even bother w/ record labels. it's all about hooking up w/ a PR firm if they're interested in you. writers should do the same.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 03:15:43 2022 No.19836114 >>19836097 >it's the same compulsion of self-expression as a child screaming eventually a child gets tired, too

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 03:24:25 2022 No.19836150

>>19836114
i get what you're saying. when a child is not heard by their parents, they turn to other interests. but many writers who we canonize now, (kafka, lowry, melville, fitzgerald, etc. etc.) were either relatively ignored or divisive in their time

to put it in more crass terms, writing is for you and your intended audience. money and pussy can be obtained much more easily though other means.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 03:58:29 2022 No.19836244

>>19836150
>money and pussy can be obtained much more easily though other means
Some people (like myself) are such slaves to their ego that we want to achieve succes on our own terms. I don't want to be a well regarded writer for money and pussy, btw. It's more if a self validation thing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:10:50 2022 No.19836282 >>19836150 >relatively ignored or divisive in their time None of them faced absolute radio silence. This parallel is either misinformed or done in bad faith because in no way this is comparable to what you'll get today on the internet.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:22:32 2022 No.19836324
File: 79 KB, 738x787, aj army.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19834007
>Telling yourself that you're making art for art's sake is a coping mechanism
And? It's a "coping mechanism" whatever you wanna call it I ravel in. I grind in my own isolation so that when my craft will be good enough I may share it with the world, not sooner.
You know you sound like a massive weak bitch, so much so that you're right in saying you don't have anything worthwhile to express to the world. Harden the fuck up or fuck off pussy, nobody likes a whiny spineless eunuch, not that I wanna imply I'm some sort of chad, but compared to you? By leaps and bounds. STOP BEING WEAK AND GET WRITING. Bitch.

>>19834363
NGMI. Not all art is worth sharing. Nobody gives a fuck about that quick shitty sketch you made, those are the drawings you do keep stashed in the vault. Even so, those sketches are important in their own way because they are practice. You're a dumb fuck who gets upset he isn't being recognized when he hasn't put near enough work into it. KEEP GRINDING YOU STUPID FUCK, THE AUDIENCE IS OUT OF YOUR REACH FOR NOW DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. Fag.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:23:34 2022 No.19836327 >>19836324 tl;dr: git gud

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:32:19 2022 No.19836354 >>19836324 lol shut up retard. you haven't written anything.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:36:57 2022 No.19836371 >>19836354 300 page manuscript for my comic. Bitch. Plus a whole bunch of worldbuilding documents. What have YOU written?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:38:36 2022 No.19836376 >>19831147 defeatist faggot or pseudo-cleverfag trying to disuade us actually motivated niggas from achieving the greatness you have given up on

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:39:42 2022 No.19836379 >>19836371 if you dont get published you mght as well not write at all niggerbrains

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:39:54 2022 No.19836381

>>19836324
>Not all art is worth sharing. Nobody gives a fuck about that quick shitty sketch you made, those are the drawings you do keep stashed in the vault. Even so, those sketches are important in their own way because they are practice. You're a dumb fuck who gets upset he isn't being recognized when he hasn't put near enough work into it. KEEP GRINDING YOU STUPID FUCK, THE AUDIENCE IS OUT OF YOUR REACH FOR NOW DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. Fag.
How about you stop drawing (ayyy lmao) assumptions out of your ass? That'd be great.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:40:55 2022 No.19836385

>>19836371
>300 page manuscript for my comic
>"worldbuilding documents"
lmao a first draft for a comic, "ideas" and no comic, so fucking nothing as with every comics "writer". I hope it's not capeshit at least.
>What have YOU written?
4 short stories and 2 novellas

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:40:59 2022 No.19836386 >>19836371 >comic Cringe.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:46:12 2022 No.19836403

>>19836381
Every single time they do this.
>You're not putting in the work hurrr!!
See >>19834374 I know this bullshit conversation like the back of my hands, and on the other side there's always either someone who has never produced anything at all, or a complete neophyte who thinks "at least I'm trying unlike this guy!"

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 04:56:17 2022 No.19836433

>>19836403
Nah bro, you don't get it. Anon has an unpublished 300 page manuscript for a comic and some "world building" notes just hanging out in his desk. Guy has pretty much made it. Don't know why he hasn't published it though. Must not be putting in enough of work.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:19:26 2022 No.19836663 >>19836385 >4 short stories and 2 novellas published or just collecting dust in your mom's basement along with the rest of your stuff and yourself

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:27:34 2022 No.19836677 incel loser not willing to put in the hard work and effort to get recognized in this day and age.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:38:07 2022 No.19836699 >>19836663 What difference does it make if they're published or not? Your comic is at the first draft stage for being 300 pages. You haven't finished a thing and you bitch at me for not throwing my work to the pigs. Get the fuck out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:44:58 2022 No.19836722 >>19831432 >tfw both my pornography and my serious stuff without any sex scenes are hailed as heartbreaking works of staggering genius You're probably just not very good at writing yet. Keep at it

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:48:08 2022 No.19836726 >>19836722 >braindead cumbrains praise me so I give them more virtual blowjobs, this means my work has merit!!!!! every single smutfag I've known was bottom of the barrel shit but thought he was the second coming of Christ. KYS imbecile.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:56:07 2022 No.19836756

>>19831677
A good example of fan art being parasitical is that giant bitch in RE8, all I know is that there is shitloads of fan art with big titties and being a dom. I have never played Resident Evil and I have no context of this character or what I am supposed to see other than the cumbrains of cuckolds because the parasitical nature isn't even representative of what that character is supposed to be. Another good example is 2B from Nier Automata where this android woman is drawn abnormally large tits and ass compared to what it is like in the actual game, they also show her without the skirt while in game, she usually has a skirt unless you decide to blow it off as a joke. And yes I used video game examples because this shit is far more prevalent in that sort of medium.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 06:57:12 2022 No.19836760

>>19836726
>implying they're published under the same identity
In all seriousness if you're incapable of channeling your own sadism for the reader into your work because you think you're "too good" to stoop to writing erotica, I question your commitment to the craft. You clearly have plenty of resentment. If I were in your shoes I'd be going out of my way to write porn that punishes the reader for enjoying it. Your rage may be potent but you aren't doing anything creatively interesting with it

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:03:00 2022 No.19836777 >>19836760 Dude you're writing pandering garbage for cumbrains in both cases, your alt account reeks like porn. You're not doing anything of worth on your barely SFW account you fucking LARPing imbecile.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:11:26 2022 No.19836800

>>19836756
Video games do it on purpose at this point because the porn "fan"art is force fed to you everywhere you go on social media. I'm sure they companies themselves are the ones who start spreading the porn until it catches on. Anime is shit for porn addicts in the first place with all the fucking fanservice and waifushit. And the proof is that you always get seething retards to come out of the woodwork when you attack it. Most likely smut peddlers themselves like 19836760. The internet has made everyone into such a slimy lying parasite because this behavior is impossible to punish now. Then braindeas consumer cattle jerkoffs wonder why someone would refuse to put anything online.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:13:28 2022 No.19836806

>>19836777
Nice trips. A single kiss is as lewd as it gets for my "serious" work.
Instead of all this autistic screeching on a tibetan stamp collecting bulletin board, you should be designing and structuring a narrative whose purpose and aesthetic goal is to force the reader to agree with your point of view. You're wasting your disgust here instead of using it as fuel. I can respect the urge to freestyle to pin down a convincing narrative voice but that assumption would be far too charitable to extend to you.

Cheer up. You won't write anything of value until you're at least thirty because you have only just barely arrived in the world and have nothing particularly interesting to say about it, so use this time to work on technique. Force yourself to write an epistolary, for example, or write something in an unorthodox verb tense, or fuck around with something you find structurally interesting.
You also appear to be laboring under the misapprehension that I agree with my readers. The first eight million words I wrote went right in the trash. My last hundred thousand had a few good bits among the flotsam and detritus. Those are the actual quality standards I apply to my own work.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:21:17 2022 No.19836825 File: 102 KB, 640x644, 1642891919483.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] > believing that merit matters over connections You got caught in a peasant trap. Absolutely proletariat. Get some connections and you'll get noticed.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:25:14 2022 No.19836837

>>19836385
>lmao a first draft for a comic
Actually it's fully revised and finished, I'm gitting gud at Blender so I can use that to speed up the comic creation process. The worldbuilding documents were the very foundation for my script, I take a world first story after kind of approach since I'm obsessed with muh immuhrshon
Also you missed the point of my post completely: it's not about publishing itself, it's about practicing until you get good enough for that instead of whining like a bitch that your level 1 tier shit isn't getting the same recognition as a level 99 boss. You are a spoiled child expecting everything to be handed to you on a silver platter. You are weak.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:31:32 2022 No.19836852

>>19836806
Samefagging with an addendum. In case you're curious, that output represents roughly two million words every four to five years. I have very little patience for the sort of public temper tantrum you're indulging in right now for two reasons:
1. I have been writing for longer than you've been alive
2. A decade ago I suffered a stroke and had to relearn how to think from scratch
You are genuinely incapable of imagining the depth of my resentment

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:58:29 2022 No.19836922

>>19836852
You should understand that if you peddle smut your opinions are of no worth to me. You're a whore LARPing as something else. You people are always immoral and always lie and argue in bad faith. I know you types well enough to know better than to believe a single word of what you say. You're on the same level of viscid as SJWs when they try to argue that the culture war doesn't exist. Fuck you again, retard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 07:59:31 2022 No.19836927 >>19836837 >your level 1 tier shit isn't getting the same recognition as a level 99 boss lmao you must be 18 to post here

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 08:04:01 2022 No.19836940 >>19836927 Said the entitled brat. Git gud son, or keep wallowing in self pity and blaming your failures on others, guess which path is going to take you farther

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 08:10:44 2022 No.19836959 >>19836379 What a strange thing to say on a literature board. You might consider that writing itself is actually a reward for him

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 08:29:16 2022 No.19836996 >>19836940 Yeah lvl 99 senpai I should "git gud" like you lol good luck with your DAZ 3D comic, I'm sure it will come out great and not like 2004 deviantart But enough arguing with CWC wannabes, I've said what I wanted to say.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 08:45:40 2022 No.19837042

>>19836922
>calling other people whores
>while complaining that no one will give him attention
All art is prostitution. The only reason "starving artists weren't even a thing" prior to the Industrial Revolution is because they had to secure wealthy patrons to survive, or were already independently wealthy. It was only ever a "trade" at the whims of the aristocracy. Those who were not independently wealthy and did not cater to the elite could not afford either the materials necessary to produce physical artwork or the time away from more "productive" labor necessary to achieve mastery. It's fine to resent the peculiar degeneracy of the era you live in, of course, but the arts as a whole can only exist when a society creates enough surplus value to sustain them. You're essentially a whore complaining that the other whores are willing to do anal & cherishing yourself excessively for only being willing to take bubble baths with your customers
I understand that this entire thread is a LARP for you but I genuinely hope that you take my advice and work on your craftsmanship. If you have the stamina to shitpost for this long about the same topic then you have the stamina to put that energy toward writing and completing at least another short story, if not a novella.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 08:56:03 2022 No.19837075 >>19831432 >it's this general attitude of entitlement >Do you understand how fucking infantile people are? You've got some balls typing this out while qualifying for both

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:02:48 2022 No.19837097

>>19837075
>if you think something is not worth it because it gives you zero reward whatsoever you are entitled
>people who want you to sacrifice your energy, time and money so they have another free product to consoom are not entitled
I already explained why you should commit neckrope earlier in the thread. I'm not even going to reply the whore above who thinks all art is prostitution but I covered that too, art has become a dopamine fast food industry now and so it's full of clueless whores who have never felt a thing in their life except whatever their lizard brain was secreting while watching uwuu pantsu senpai monogatari. It's like talking to retarded monkeys.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:03:31 2022 No.19837098 >>19837097 LMAOing at ur life

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:07:54 2022 No.19837111

>>19837098
LMAO on these nuts idiot. You will only get vitriol from me. I swear to God I won't leave a single shred of anything valuable behind me when I die. Even if my contribution is but a speck of sand in an ocean of shit you still don't deserve it. Choke on committee made shit made by grifters, porn and parasitism. The only sad thing is that you actually enjoy it you fucking subhuman.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:10:28 2022 No.19837116

>>19837042
Your would make more sense if it was some female streamer complaining that no one watched her because other female streamers resort to thottery for easy views, some people don't want to stoop low or sell their soul for easy money, neither would they want to ruin their passion. The fact that you compare art to prostitution shows how little class people like you have.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:11:54 2022 No.19837119 >>19836054 Making something that sells is a skill, even if those that claim to have “good taste” say it’s crap. You may not like that fact but it is a prerequisite to being a professional in anything.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:13:25 2022 No.19837121 >>19837111 >2012+10 >being this buttblasted on 4chins

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:14:39 2022 No.19837123 >>19837119 Yeah now stop typing and go back to work, that cock ain't gonna suck itself. Bitch.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:16:21 2022 No.19837126 >>19837121 You're the one getting shit on, retard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:24:22 2022 No.19837149 >>19837126 You're the one with the problems, my man. Being unpublished is the least of them

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 09:59:51 2022 No.19837271 >>19837123 >oh no! My writing can’t be bad! It has to be le society / corporatism. Thats why no one wants to publish me. Now go back to sucking le epic funny pp. lol xD

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 10:11:19 2022 No.19837317 >>19837271 >S-sucking cock is a skill too! I am doing skilled labor here! Glk glk glk

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 10:25:13 2022 No.19837372 >>19837317 >claims to hate pornographers >writing real person fanfiction about other anons sucking cocks

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 10:34:32 2022 No.19837409 >>19837317 Oh sorry I didn’t know I was engaging with the mentally disabled. I mean, I guess I should have but better late then never

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 11:48:53 2022 No.19837777

>>19831147
>And most consumers aren't going to be experts,
Duh. Most consumers have never been experts.

Many people are literate but people read more in the old days, if anything less people read. If you're stuff is truly good it will rise. But keep in mind many great artists have struggled down throughout the years.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 12:05:55 2022 No.19837840
File: 90 KB, 724x1024, __original_drawn_by_jun_seojh1029__03d063c8bbe2428f19c00b14ae72b399.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Write if you can make a good return on your investment. That could mean writing something with total seriousness as a work of art and feeling pride in the work you completed, even if it never reaches many readers. Or it could mean writing some light novel style big titty anime harem story full of horrible tropes and cliches and making a nice wad of cash out of it.
Sounds like a lot of you just want to stroke your ego or feel "relevant" rather than achieving a concrete goal.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 12:39:20 2022 No.19837973 >>19837840 >juat write something marketable to degenerates that you don't actually care about, bro! Lol. I'll stick to my day job. Much more dignity in it.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 12:42:55 2022 No.19837988

>>19837973
My day job is working for Globohomo Inc to transfer wealth from the middle class to the rich and totally crush any resistance from the people. It pays well but if I could get paid even better for writing a big anime titty fantasy, I'd do it, and even feel good about it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 13:03:31 2022 No.19838096 >>19837988 >My day job is working for Globohomo Inc to transfer wealth from the middle class to the rich and totally crush any resistance from the people. please work harder at it, you're doing exactly what people deserve

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 14:43:39 2022 No.19838575 >>19831180 fippy bippy

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 15:55:20 2022 No.19838929 [DELETED]

>>19836806
>you should be designing and structuring a narrative whose purpose and aesthetic goal is to force the reader to agree with your point of view.
Lmao. It's your job to engage your audience and make them think outside their little box. Not provide an outlet for you to pat each other on the back. No wonder so fuvked these days, with shit eating cockroaches like you roamung around.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 15:56:21 2022 No.19838934 >>19838929 *No wonder art is so fucked

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 18:22:18 2022 No.19839774 I just write porn with my unpopular fetishes to have more content with those fetishes and hopefully encourage more people to write about those fetishes

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 19:31:16 2022 No.19840058 >>19831376 Hey, I'm not that guy. t. OP

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 19:49:31 2022 No.19840157 >>19831468 >Van Gogh was excused from this behavior because he was a schizo, though. I think you're not far behind him in this regard.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 19:53:34 2022 No.19840177

>>19831677
>it always does this not to edify the original work but on the contrary satisfy the wants of the "fandom"
These aren't mutually exclusive. You can respect the story for its themes or evecution and still fantasize about its characters screwing each other. You can even have some of the themes reflected in your fanfiction about the characters screwing each other.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 19:54:09 2022 No.19840181 >>19840157 Shutup

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 20:01:12 2022 No.19840213 >>19833425 American Psycho is shit anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 20:08:07 2022 No.19840242 >>19833874 But according to you, the life of an average person matters more than the life of a writer?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 20:18:21 2022 No.19840293 >>19834438 This anon gets it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 20:24:44 2022 No.19840323 >>19836825 Nothing in my OP post really indicates that. I just didn't want to be cliched and whine about connections, as well. But the pandering part kind of covers this aspect.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 21:42:11 2022 No.19840633 Wake up you stupid Euros.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 21:47:21 2022 No.19840655 >>19840213 no it isn't. I find the borderline autistic prose and dark humor to be very enetertaining. SO FUCK YOU FAGGOT!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 21:48:26 2022 No.19840659 >>19840633 good moring, sir.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 21:49:15 2022 No.19840661

>>19831899
>I would think a name that is bound to become famous would have emerged in the literary consciousness by now.
>the literary consciousness
the literary consciousness is bullshit. Liberate yourself from it, expand your horizon and you will see cool shit.

Anonymous Sun Jan 30 21:56:11 2022 No.19840692

>>19834007
I believe I can. 10 years ago I was a dropout and had nothing, now I have had a technical career for years and have been reading and started learning about writing. If something seems insurmountable, you gotta set your eyes on more immediate achievable goals on shorter term basis regularly. Same way I approach writing, it's all just Q&A. There's no secret knowledge or hidden bloodline or any of that bullshit. Anons just need to relax and not despair because if youre like Raskolnikov awaiting the watershed moment where society crowns you a king while brooding on your couch nothing will ever come of it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 30 23:27:02 2022 No.19841077 >>19840661 >the literary consciousness a bunch of solipsistic and oversocialized faggots.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 31 00:15:38 2022 No.19841262 >>19831345 Lmao he doesn't just make art for the joy of it. What a fucking loser.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 31 01:10:37 2022 No.19841449 Either do it because you have to or kill yourself. Everything is a waste of time, so just choose something. You just want recognition and are upset that others have found shortcuts towards obtaining it. >I just want to sell it for $1 Avaricious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 31 02:38:48 2022 No.19841667 >>19841262 Retard see >>19834007 I still do it as a "hobby" I am just dissatisfied. I only gave up on publishing. But I swear that if I could only do things if I had to publish them on the internet afterwards I'd rather chop my hands off. Eat shit.

Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:04:47 2022 No.19841734

>>19841667
Who said anything about publishing?
Do it, or die.
Just admit it, you want someone to appreciate your art so that you can feel like you have some kind of intrinsic value.
Well, you don't.
Nobody does.
Everything is a waste of time.
Choose your poison, then shut the fuck up.

Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:24:28 2022 No.19841781

>>19841734
>Everything is a waste of time.
Nihilist retards like you should lead by example and kill themselves. I don't want to be a nihilist. Yes I wanted to do something that has meaning and infect other people with that meaning. But don't worry it's all. been completely eroded out of me. Enjoy your nihilistic porn and grifting, and by all means enjoy your propaganda.

Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:27:44 2022 No.19841792

>>19831147
>I won't write unless somebody reads it

Hey retard. This is a paradox.
You can't write something without reading it.
What you really want to say is
>"I want someone that I admire to read my work"

Which in this case is literally anyone.
How fucking sad to exclude yourself from this equation.
How is anyone supposed to find merit in your "art" when you can't even find it yourself.
If you want to be adored while hating yourself, then buy a dog. Otherwise die like one.

Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:29:52 2022 No.19841797

>>19841781
The thing about nihilism is that it's true, it's just also useless. Are you going to cry about it or write about it?

>Yes I wanted to do something that has meaning and infect other people with that meaning.

If you can't do that for yourself, then why would it have that effect on someone else?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:34:05 2022 No.19841811 >>19841781 You're the grifter Why the fuck should anyone spend the limited amount of time they have alive reading a book by a sadsack like you? You're a nihilist in denial. Sad.

Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:42:01 2022 No.19841833

>>19841811
>>19841797
>You're the grifter
Choke on your porn, fantasy YA and critical race theory forever. I'd rather fucking die than give anything of mine to people like you.
>>19841792
>>19841797
>If you can't do that for yourself
Yes, nothing happens in a void. Retard! God, how can you be so fucking STUPID! You'd be able to say that if I find meaning in my family or my dogs or the fucking trees in my backyard that's not real meaning because I depend on "others". You are empty shells and you want me to become like you. Fuck you. I hate you. You are like a disease.

Anonymous Mon Jan 31 03:55:45 2022 No.19841866

>>19841833
>I'd rather fucking die than give anything of mine to people like you.

Then die

>Yes, nothing happens in a void.

Everything happens in a void.

>that's not real meaning because I depend on "others".

Yes.

>you want me to become like you.

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