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/lit/ - Literature

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19814084 No.19814084 [Reply] [Original]

>Be me
>Aspiring screenwriter
>In film school
>This film school I'm in sucks, but got no other choice
>Learn things on my own in the afternoon after school, read books on my own, write on my own
>Parents want me to get a part time job
>Apply to various jobs, one sticks in: video editor and community manager. It's very likely I'll get it. The pay is not bad.
>mfw I'll have much less free time now bc of managing school, a job, and going to the gym in the early morning

Do any of you can give advice for practicing writing when you have very little free time or no free time at all? I'm very young so I guess it's part of life and many of you have gone through this, but some advice wouldn't hurt, in fact, I really need it.
I always try to read literature and philosophy books, not only film stuff, but ever since I entered this school I've read so little other than homework readings.
My school really really sucks and I'm not learning much when it comes to my aspirations. I'm not leaving it (yet) because I'm just about 3 years from graduating and leaving college isn't really an option now (the degree comes in handy).

>> No.19814096

I usually do all my writing at work whenever I have some downtime. You might be able to do it if you have a boss that doesn't really know what you do all day or what goes into your job

>> No.19814158

>>19814096
Isn't it hard to focus? I'm slow when writing because I need to think a lot before I start to word things out. If I don't then I feel like I'm treating myself like a bot writing nonsense out of spite.
Thanks for the advice man.

>> No.19814190

>>19814158
Oh, desu we have completely different writing styles. I just start typing, it's very nearly freewriting. I go on and on then give it a week, come back, and edit.
Then again I'm trying to write genre fiction and you're writing a screenplay, maybe it's a different process idk.

>> No.19814272

>>19814190
Maybe I should try that, but yeah perhaps the processes are very different. When writing a script you have to structure a lot of elements and planting before actually writing, and also think in terms of drama. Sometimes you realize that there are many contradictions or mistakes since the beginning of the story and have to start over again.

>> No.19814319

>>19814084
i'm 38 and my advice is to not rush things. You've got dreams, goals and ambition. You'll get there eventually, and the sooner you get there the faster you'll realise you want something else and something more. Take your time. Collect ideas and write them down. Don't focus on productivity but stick with your creativity. Your studies are in a creative field aswell so like it or not you're gonna have to be creative. Just enjoy what life has to offer right now and don't ruin it all by feeling pressured to do even more. Like you stated, you're doing plenty right now. 3 years is a very short time, once they've passed.

>> No.19814321

>>19814190
I'm like this anon. I have a notebook with me all the time. And the process is just the same - write regardless if it makes sense or if it's good and move on to the next part. When it's ALL finished I try to fix the plot holes and better the prose. All the best things I've written have come from an unconscious state, as if I don't even think about it. On the other hand when I dwell too much on it from the get go I either lose drive or it becomes soulless.

>> No.19814331

>>19814319
Sometimes I wake up and the first thought in my mind is "you should have been writing and not wasting your time, you're never going to make it". Kek.

>> No.19814363

>>19814084
It's hard to get good advice on this sort of thing as we all work differently and think differently. Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt.
That being said, I managed to write quite a bit while in a reasonably intensive professional school program (which was not related to writing). Two things that helped: 1) Rigid schedule. I wrote 2 hrs a day in the morning 6 days a week. I went to bed at a certain time 6 days a week. Any schoolwork had to be done by a certain time of night and I had to live with the quality of it. Which brings me to 2) Every term I assessed my courses and decided which ones I would intentionally not work hard on. Which freed up a lot of time. Depending on what your aims are, doing well in some elective (or even attending) might not matter at all.

That being said: you are in film school, after all. Shouldn't you be able to shoehorn your interests into the coursework? If it's anything like my degree, the grades don't matter. So you just make sure you're doing work you care about of a reasonable quality for them to pass you.

>> No.19814384

>>19814158
YMMV but I find it useful to learn how to work at, say, 60% quality in small bursts throughout an imperfect day, rather than having only one "100% mode" that can only be accessed once in a blue moon.

>> No.19814439
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19814439

>>19814084
Anon I worked a full time finance job over the summer (still in school) and found that my free time was more productive and fulfilling than when I'm in school. Just schedule your time well and don't lapse into mindless shit when you get off work and you'll be fine. Creative types struggle with the idea of traditional work (for some reason I feel myself but do not understand) but it isn't a deathwish to you nor your creative spirits. Best of luck.

>> No.19814494
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19814494

>>19814084
Aspiring professional writer with one novel and several short stories published here. I will be honest: for me it was all about as stealing as much time as possible from literally any other activity beside the ones which I needed to keep my body working (minimum exercise). You simply cannot write well and be competent at something else at the same time. I need to spend about 2/3 hours a day reading and 2/3 hours a day writing, every day, weekend included, to just keep being decent and have my mind working properly. It is borderline impossible to do it while working an actual job, or studying seriously. So steal as much time as you can: work little, pretend to be sick, study little and in generall stress-test literally any necessity you are bound to face to see what's the lowest possible amount of energy and time you can dedicate to it without giving it up - unless you want to just give it up. I'd suggest giving up work, btw, because it's often the most demanding and less flexible of the things you have to do. All the rest is likely not going to be as demanding, but work usually requires you to be in a certain place for a specific number of hours, which is totally unacceptable for anyone wanting to have a creative output of some sort, because it literally burns away your freedom to think about stuff and imagine it. Study is more flexible, you meet people, you're not forced to listen to your professor and you can meander about, you can skip lessons, etc.
In any case, anon, don't give up. It's a very hard way, and mostly not rewarding, but you are free. Sometimes it will look like the most meaningless form of freedom. Some other times, like the most beautiful thing in the world.

>> No.19814532

>>19814084
Getting some job experience under your belt is probably more valuable professionally than what you'll be able to gain by practicing writing in your downtime. You have a lifetime to hone your craft, anon, don't stress too much about it.

>> No.19814546

>>19814319
Thanks man. I suppose this is the ultimate truth. It's just hard to live day by day thinking that one day I'll start the process of achieving my aspirations or one day I'll write as I want to write. One day, someday. Instead of taking action today. But then again it's tormenting to live frustrated when life is not assured, so yeah.

>>19814363
When I tell you that my college sucks I mean it haha. It's ridiculous because attendance is graded and during classes we only have lectures and practice nothing. Most of our teachers are actual filmmakers or professors in other more prestigious universities so they kinda don't care a lot about us, then in order to have things to grade they end up with just a lot of homework for us. Since we don't practice during class and there's not even a library or anything to sit on inside the building, we do all graded work at home. (I had a lot of more free time during online classes). But yeah I can try intenionally only passing on selected classes.

Thank you for your advice. I'm not very disciplined when it comes to schedules or routines, so maybe I should work on that.

>>19814439
>>19814532
Thanks.

>> No.19814574

>>19814546
>But yeah I can try intenionally only passing on selected classes.
Don't misunderstand OP, you want to pass every class, but D's get degrees as they say.

>> No.19814583

>>19814574
That's what I meant, my bad. Poor syntax.

>> No.19814584

>>19814084
With screenwriting it's actually quite easy. Simply work on individual scenes.

>> No.19814651

>>19814584
how do you write good scenes? I want to plan in detail the scene first.

>> No.19814665

>>19814532
I agree with this, and such job experience doesn't have to be related to your career aspirations, if it does that's a bonus but not essential.

I know someone who did art at university and afterwards had a job as a support worker in a school. Some years later they had managed to build a list of clients on the side and eventually they went full time freelancing, doing art displays for shops amongst other things.

Things don't always go how you'd like them to, so it's a good idea to have other options that allow you to making a living while still pursuing your own goals.

>> No.19814668

>>19814494
Thank you for your reply, very profound.
While I agree with many of your points and your post is almost exactly like what my internal monologues sound like, I still think that it's better to try the job first instead of giving up before taking it (they haven't even hired me yet). Maybe I should try having proof that I can't write while managing school and work than quitting the job before getting it. >>19814532
makes a very good point. There's still more to life than being the best writer, and getting experience on a real company outside film stuff can open doors to a more calm life in the future. Also the money could come very useful if I want to make one of my scripts into a short film.

>> No.19814706

Based on what you say about your program I would take a year off and just write scripts and work part time, while still maintaining whatever social connections you have from school (keep going to the parties, etc).

>> No.19814754

>>19814651
Hopefully one day I know how.

>> No.19814976

>>19814494
>work usually requires you to be in a certain place for a specific number of hours, which is totally unacceptable for anyone wanting to have a creative output of some sort
I am not a writer but it's so difficult to explain what you said to other people when you want to get into the arts. They think you can just do this thing you're insanely passionate about as a hobby, because since it's "fun" you don't need to dedicate a lot of time into it. Or maybe they think it's something that you can produce at a good level as a byproduct of talent and not obsession. It's a hard pill to swallow but yeah you have to sacrifice everything else and it's still not guaranteed you'll make it because you have to traverse a whole ocean of unbearable bullshit.
I lost in the end. I gave up against all the bullshit and I feel really terrible about it sometimes, especially since I went all in and gave everything up. It's tough as hell and it's impossible to go on forever in chronic defeat. I imagine that you're actually trying to write instead of pandering. If that's so I hope you'll make it. Good luck anon.

>> No.19815149

>>19814084
As an other anon has said, fuck your work, fuck your boss and fuck whoever is trying to make you waste your time on mediocrity. Do the BARE minimum at whatever isn’t practicing your craft. Consider getting a job as a security guard or as a gas station attendant where the work is slow and work as little as possible. Just read and write. I’ve worked so many different jobs and man they are all so fucking gay. School can be massively gay as well but at least, in theory, you get to practice.

>> No.19815200

>>19814532
>>19814668
OP, I guarantee you this guy is a failure at whatever he does. You won’t always have the energy and the naivety to try to make it as a writer. Give it absolutely everything you have and make no compromises. Either you become mediocre and compromise with this bullshit world right now or you give it your all for a shot at success. If you fail you will end up a gay mediocre failure anyways so might as well try.

>> No.19815212

>>19815200
He should know that you very likely don't get to succeed unless you cave in to bullshit, only that this time it's a different flavor of bullshit instead of normal, day job bullshit.

>> No.19815364

>>19815212
A good writer who doesn’t get anything published is a success.

>> No.19815944

>>19815364
Do I have to actually leave a manuscript in my closet or can I jump off a bridge directly?

>> No.19817122

>>19814084
Wtf are you literally me? Anon I'm about to make it as a screenwriter and was exactly like you! Keep going and try to find a insider writing job in a script competition so you can break in. Cannot say any more.

>> No.19817131

>>19814084
What country are you from? My film school sucked badly as well. In fact I need one class to graduate that hell hole.

>> No.19817153

>>19814084
>>Be me
>>Aspiring screenwriter
>>In film school
Same, brotha, but I'm thinking about dropping out. I just can't stand the social environment anymore. It's as if my country is going through a social revolution right now, and unless you're constantly showing your allegiance to wokeness you get treated like a pariah. And if you want the teachers to green light your projects, it better be about women, gays, immigrants and so on.

>> No.19817188

>>19814084
get your shit together, career-wise, financially. then you can write in your free time. ideally you could find work that facilitates your writing. maybe you could write books about film.
you'll never be a famous screenwriter of film-maker. think more realistically what you could do. film critic? film journalist? work at a local cinema? teach? video editing? freelance video work? youtuber? you have to be realistic OP. your writing probably isn't very good and will probably get you exactly nowhere.

>> No.19817232

>>19817122
Thanks man.

>>19817131
Mexico. It's a bad situation overall.

>>19817153
I guess you have to leave there if you feel unwelcomed but just ask yourself wether you're making that decision as a tantrum or rather bc you're actually not learning.

>> No.19817375

>>19817153
Where are you from?
Hit me up.

>> No.19817514

>>19814084
Are you the gang weed guy?

>> No.19817780

how did you land the video editing job?
I struggle to get some gigs on upwork but I'm crippled by the fact that I don't have a lot of experience and my portfolio is trash
also it's extremely competitive since pajeets are willing to do the exact same things I do for 3usd and hour instead of 9

>> No.19817970

>>19817780
It's a small, beginning start-up in my city that actually already had a community manager but she needs someone to assist her regarding their YouTube channel bc it's too much work for a single person. I approached them because my father used to work many years ago with the person who's now ceo of the start-up, so my dad told me about it and applied for a job.
Here in my country we don't struggle with the pajeet thing but there's indeed a lot of competitivity. I advice you to search for local businesses or reach out to small companies that aren't really looking for an editor but you'll convince them that having one is very useful.

>> No.19817974

>>19814084
>Do any of you can give advice for practicing writing when you have very little free time or no free time at all?
Set yourself small assignments like a journalist. Try to write a 500 word story. Every day. That should take you less than an hour. Even if it's only three a week. That will still be extremely good practice, not only that you'll learn to be concise and economical. You'll start to think about paragraph structure, narrative structure, how to create a good lede etc. etc.
Then after you've done that for a while, set yourself the task of something longer form like a Novella or even a Novel where you outline each chapter. Maybe very short chapters, then try and write one chapter a sitting. Just production line it
>but muhhh quality and artistic integrity
It's about the practice, and you can always edit it later when you have time.

>> No.19817992

>>19817970
Also, gigs and freelancing may be great but if you're not the best video editor in town (I'm also not) it's difficult that people who need editors will consider you. Looking for a job where you're hired and is not proyect-based works better for me.

>> No.19818000

>>19817974
This is an interesting exercise, I think I'll also look forward to practicing like this.

>> No.19818501

>>19814546
>One day, someday. Instead of taking action today
You have taken action. You’re acting like a farmer that has sown who’s doing push ups to make things grow faster. This is why patience is a virtue. YGMI

>> No.19818511

>>19814084
>screenwriting
>writing
I shiggy diggy.

>> No.19818524

>>19814084
I graduated from a film school better than yours in 2020 and have struggled to get any employment/money that isn't bottom of the barrel shit since. It's a bad time. Get whatever ins you can get anywhere that's not beneath you.

Since graduating I also wrote a book that got picked up somewhere but the pay was kinda shit. I have no advice that isn't just look at your field and who you know and where you want to be at in 5 years time. "5 years time" will also not make you fucking Spielberg, so don't expect that either, bucko.

>> No.19818531

Since there are so many filmmakers/film students in /lit/ why don't we join forces and start a production company? There must be a billionaire-fag among us willing to finance it, right? No leftists allowed though. They have an entire industry for themselves.

>> No.19818605

All the stuff I wrote in film school was complete unsaveable garbage except for my thesis because it was the only thing I wrote that wasn't about my life, which at that point was just a boring college student.

After graduating I worked in film/TV development in LA after graduating and if you went to a b level school like I did, you'll lose out to UCLA USC NYU grads. If you're not a type a personality then you're in for a tough ride.

Chances are slim to be a film screenplay writer unless you have that type a personality and a great network. You'll have to find a director partner to work together to try to make it, or just be wealthy af. Better chances for TV writers but it's also extremely competitive.

You're only chance on making it in film like most others is working as an assistant until you get your chance. Contests are a scam btw.

>> No.19818623

>>19818605
>Contests are a scam btw.
What if I get lucky and win Cannes with an amazing short though?

>> No.19818641

>>19818605
Nigger, don't be such a fag. Ceylan made his first movie with an amateur crew and now he's the best living filmmaker alive in a country with a broken currency. Just pick a camera, a mic and a few lights and go make a movie. Have you seen the kind of trash that gets accepted in most festivals? You're bound to win something. Just put some faggots in it so they don't overlook it though.

>> No.19818648

>>19818623
You have to pay a shitload of money to make an amazing short and pay a shitload of money to enter a contest (even a shitty one) and compete against hundreds of other shorts just as competent as yours.

I don't say this to doompill you but "contests" are kind of a scam unless you're trying to get easy shit to impress out of touch boomers.

>> No.19818690

>>19818524
are you literally me 6 year's ago?
I'm currently figuring out how to become a factual TV-style program producer, giving up on the dream of being Werner Herzog or Eisenstein and looking for a way of just getting paid for the thing I studied. Not sure what my distro strategy would be, probably try online first and use that as a PoC to get sales agents to pimp it to broadcasters, that way even if I don't get much territory sales it still makes money online since it will be like a 3 man at most documentary style crew.
How to make money? Fucked if I know. Paid Promotion?
>>19818531
Legit answer:
The biggest problem is distribution. Even if you did have an exciting slate of screenplays and productions, such that you could find a pool of semi-rich dudes to pool together their money into Asset Backed Securities to be paid out of the future revenues of all productions or even to buy Equity in the company that is totally precipitant on having a source of revenue going forward, and that means distribution. "Let's sell to netflix" is not a plan they don't take unsolicited ideas, you need to grind hard to produce your own following.
You know what would suck, you get your first feature film made, you slap each other on the back and say "well done team", oh right, team... I'll get to that... you try to market it and sell it, and the Sales Agents aren't interested or say "there isn't a market for this right now, but come back to us with your next film because we can see you have talent." Now that Billionaire is asking - where's my money? You better pray that you sold Equity or created a limited liability company, other wise the entire team is personally liable to pay him back the 'negative cost' of the production.
So teams....you need to figure out how you assemble the teams. You can have multiple directors, sort of like they did at MGM Animation or Leon Schlesinger in the 30's-40's where each director headed their own 'unit' and you made synergies in sharing post-production resources and distribution.
but in actuality there's probably far too many directors and screenwriters and composers, not enough DoPs, Line Producers, Production Designers etc.

>> No.19818698

>>19818690
>giving up on the dream of being Werner Herzog or Eisenstein
You never had it, commie.

>> No.19818711

>>19817992
>>19817970
thank for your insight
I saw an add a few days ago from a volunteer team
maybe I'll send them an email

>> No.19818747

>>19814084
Bros, why rich people always get all the happiness? I just want to write and direct million dollars movies, but my family is so poor.

>> No.19818749

>>19818698
What do you mean by that? What is "it" in this case?

>> No.19818758

>>19818747
>Bros, why rich people always get all the happiness?
Money offers you greater buffer from the maladies and vicissitudes of life: struggling at school? Mummy and daddy can hire a tutor, in fact they can cycle through many tutors until they find the best/right one. Having a rare medical condition, why let that stop your quality of life, we'll just pay the exorbitant fees for the therapy/medication that allows you to live a normal life.
Didn't realize the hot piece of ass you were tapping was married to someone rich and powerful and need to get out of town for a while, why should that stop you career, Daddy will just use his connections to get you a well paying job in another city.
Now of course, some rich people aren't happy, they suffer maladies too... but the people who overcome them are more likley to be those who could pay their way out of trouble so it's a Sponsorship Bias thing. Being rich doesn't make you happy, but being rich makes it less likley to be sad.

>> No.19818908

>>19818641
If it were that easy everyone would be Ceylan. How many Ceylans are there? Now how many retards out there are like you?

>> No.19818930

>>19818690
The only shit I have going for me in this immediate moment is the fact that I have a job getting paid about $85/week writing blogs/newsletters for a rich furniture brand. I can't even get a fucking return email for a job running around getting coffee on a film set; it's fucking ridiculous.

>how to get money for a TV documentary
okay here's how I'd do this. Try and get a team together. File an LLC or something for the project to look legitimate then get a few freelancers. Then do what you can to approach people big in/relevant to the subject you're trying to make the documentary on. Get a few soundbites from them and write up a really good description for a Kickstarter to get some degree of funding. Then make and send it to high-level festivals (don't bother with fly-by-night meme festivals, go for the high-tier ones. If you do well there you might be able to get in contact with networks/streamers that might want to buy it.

>> No.19818941

>>19818908
>How many Ceylans are there?
Bela Tarr comes to my mind. He was hated by everyone in the industry as well and his first films are pure guerrilla stuff.
>Now how many retards out there are like you?
What if I were Ceylan, nigga?

>> No.19818962

It's a tough industry - I used to work with a friend producing our own films. We made one feature and one feature length documentary. We were only able to get them screened at bumfuck nowhere festivals, which isn't too surprising as: 1) the big festivals aren't actually open entry, even if they say they are - you still need connections & 2) our films weren't particularly good, just by virtue of us being amateurs and no-budget. I got out of that game but my friend is still at it. He's been at it for over 5 years now and is ready to give up.

I don't say that to discourage you at all, just thought that I might as well share my experience. There are an unfathomable amount of people trying to do the same thing as you, the numbers are against you so as with everything, it is about knowing the right people.

>> No.19818988

>>19818930
See my plan is to create a TV series or a format. That way rather than husttling to get money up to produce one production, the idea is it becomes a kind of money treadmill - episodes produce income which gets used to produce more episodes.
Obviously there is a backdoor idea here: if it becomes profitable enough I can then use that to make my arthouse shit. But that's not really the goal, the idea is to just put these skills to use rather than work a normie job which I can't find anyway.
So the question is; how does a serial produce income?
Yes there's paid promotion in every episode, that could be one source, but you still need to have enough eyeballs (the whole big name people with soundbites could help generate some traffic in that regard). I think Caspar Matresses and some CBD oil companies who throw money at streamers might be interested. But is it enough? At what point can you interest them?

>> No.19819090

>>19814084
Statistically, there must be at least a successful filmmaker who posts in /lit/, right? Or are they all cringe redittors?

>> No.19819258

>>19818641
But I don't want to be some middle eastern nobody. I want to be the next Speilberg and I can't do that if I'm broke and without contacts.

>> No.19819323

>>19818941
>Assuming everyone wants to be a nonce shoebudget director pigeonholed to making absurd cringe bullshit that plays at a flyover state's third tier city film festival to audience of 23 people.

>What if I were Ceylan, nigga?
Post tits or gfto then.

>> No.19819450

>>19818747
>I want to be a celebrity
It's exceedingly difficult to live in monk tier poverty as an artist, because people, pretty much, want to pay you with upvotes instead of money (and they won't even do that). On the other hand, they will eagerly pay for porn and other prostitution. This is probably the worst era for art probably. Your requests are absurd.