/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19740739]

Is the dirty malnourished yogi what you get when you eliminate all regard for the material world and and does this stand in extreme contrast with the Greeks who held bodily Beauty as divine?

Is this what Schopenhauer wanted life to be and what Nietzsche harshly opposed?

[Anonymous No.19740790]

>>19740739
>the Greek mind did not indeed avoid the awful side of life, but turned this very knowledge to a matter of artistic contemplation: it saw the terrible with wholest truth, but this truth itself became the spur to a re-presentment whose very truthfulness was beautiful. In the workings of the Grecian spirit we thus are made spectators of a kind of pastime, a play in whose vicissitudes the joy of Shaping seeks to counteract the awe of Knowing. Content with this, rejoicing in the semblance, since it has banned therein its truthfulness of knowledge, it asks not after the goal of Being, and like the Parsee creed it leaves the fight of Good and Evil undecided; willing to pay for a lovely life by death, it merely strives to beautify death also.

[Anonymous No.19740819]

>>19740739
>stand in extreme contrast with the Greeks who held bodily Beauty as divine?
That's just your pol influenced view of the Greeks. Ascetism was not uncommon. See Diogenes.

[Anonymous No.19740948]

>>19740739
He looks pretty cool

[Anonymous No.19740975]

>>19740739
If Schopenhauer truly wanted this he would have lived like one.
t. former Schopenhauerian who realized Schopenhauer's teachings are a great starting point but are incomplete

[Anonymous No.19741011]

>>19740975
>incomplete
Where did you go from there?

[Anonymous No.19741152]

>>19740975
seconding >>19741011, am also curious

[Anonymous No.19741176]

>>19741011
After Schopenhauer, it's Jung, Husserl-Heidegger, and the final step that is Henry Corbin who shows how Islamic Shi'ism and its transcendent theosophy satisfactorily solves every problem of metaphysics, including the Problem of Being, and offers the most complete religious-spiritual framework there is. In retrospect it's surprising how much of it Schopenhauer got right, but as I said he is incomplete.

[Anonymous No.19741191]

>>19741176
I have Schopenhauer's complete essays but haven't read them in over ten years. Are there any you'd particularly recommend regarding this topic or should I just give up and order a copy of World as Will?

[Anonymous No.19741217]

>>19741176
>Islamic Shi'ism and its transcendent theosophy satisfactorily solves every problem of metaphysics, including the Problem of Being, and offers the most complete religious-spiritual framework there is
??? is this your personal fanfic or where can I read about anything you just said?

To my knowledge it's borderline idolatry with only subservient dogmatic teachings to control poor peasants while focusing on few big names. I'd love to be corrected because I've never read anything even close to what you wrote about any abrahamic religions.

[Anonymous No.19741221]

>>19741217
>To my knowledge
there lies the issue

[Anonymous No.19741234]

>>19741191
His essays are more like an appendix to his main work (he titled them Parerga and Paralipomena - additions and omissions). You need to read The Fourfold Root and TWWR, and you would most appreciate his work if you have done your readings on Plato and Kant.

[Anonymous No.19741248]

>>19741221
>there lies the issue
Yet you will not offer a single reference. I want to read about it because it fascinates me by how utterly ridiculous it sounds. If I knew about it I wouldn't be asking you fucking troglodyte.

[Anonymous No.19741256]

>>19741217
That's how the Sunnis--the exotericists of Islam--view Shi'ism. Corbin shows Shi'ism has the most profound esotericism and in fact Sufism is a divergent tradition of Shi'ism. He elaborates on this in En Islam Iranien. The books are unfortunately not yet translated to English. It's available in the original French as well as Arabic and Persian.

[Anonymous No.19741270]

>>19741256
>Corbin shows Shi'ism has the most profound esotericism
How exactly does he show that? What are the actual thoughts or processes that are so profound? If it's just a hundred pages of vague posting I might as well read elder scrolls lore.

[Anonymous No.19741273]

>>19741248
That anon wasn't me btw. You could also start reading Shi'ite hadith selections first hand to get a taste of its profoundness to see it's not just subversive idolatry. Although you should also read the great tradition of philosophic and mystical commentaries on them by Shi'i scholars (Corbin introduces them in the book I mentioned) This is a good collection of Shi'i hadith:
https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-anthology-sayyid-muhammad-husayn-tabatabai

[Anonymous No.19741281]

>>19740739
It’s just because meditation is addictive. It’s the exact same as some skinny guy who never gets up from his computer to eat because he is addicted to video games. And honestly at a certain point hunger and malnourishment and decay feel good as well

[Anonymous No.19741289]

>>19741281
Difference is the computer nerd doesn’t create a comprehensive metapshycis around his lifestyle

[Anonymous No.19741296]

>>19741273
Why would you reject Monism (Schoepnhauer) for Islamic Dualism? It sounds completely unrelated

[Anonymous No.19741308]

>>19741281
What exactly is meditation? As in, what's happening inside a meditator's mind?

[Anonymous No.19741316]

>>19740739
It's funny that in the west contortionists are just circus freaks and in the east they are religious gurus.

[Anonymous No.19741317]

>>19741289
What then would you call the physics of his computer systems?

[Anonymous No.19741319]

>>19741273
>The Imams are like a chain of light issuing forth from the "Sun of Prophecy" which is their origin, and yet they are never separated from that Sun. Whatever is said by them emanates from the same inviolable treasury of inspired wisdom. Since they are an extension of the inner reality of the Blessed Prophet, their words really go back to him.
Looks like bog standard "obey holy old farts" bullshit.

>So none changes His creation,
none alters His handiwork, 'none repels His law'
I could go on but really it's exactly what I expected it to be, so what was written about it being somehow profound is indeed just fanfic. But do go ahead and quote the wisdom from these traditions.

[Anonymous No.19741320]

>>19741316
>putting your feet together makes you a contortionist
kek amerilard detected

[Anonymous No.19741322]

>>19741308
idk when you meditate you can be like a taoist and just be in this moment without having to move or do anything or you can be like a buddhist and eliminate all thoughts. I don't meditate much but the first time I did it for more than 30 minutes I felt pure bliss for a few minutes after a certain point and I don't even know what I did, just focusing on the way my body felt and the sounds around me

[Anonymous No.19741324]

>>19741308
Mediations from my understanding is of the purpose of the rejection of the Will. They are trying to concentrate as hard as they can to reject their own Will and remove desire.

[Anonymous No.19741328]

>>19741319
You're just a hylic, bro. Go back to r*ddit and vidya.

[Anonymous No.19741332]

>>19741322
but how do you do it? just close your eyes and then what?

[Anonymous No.19741341]

>>19741328
I'm truly interested in how people interpret their existence, but that collection of traditions is utter nonsense.

[Anonymous No.19741342]

>>19741308
I've talked with some retards who treat Greek and Eastern philosophy like they're incompatible, but the idea in Platonism of the soul turning inwards towards itself and towards the things of the soul: in practice this is meditation.
The East has a very thorough exploration of the disciplines of meditation, which are applied not only towards becoming yogis detached from the material world, but towards practices like the martial arts, which would have impressed the Greeks in their precise honing of the body.

[Anonymous No.19741357]

>>19741332
close your eyes and don't move. generally the advice is to focus on your breathing or your senses in general. One goal people put out a lot is to try and maximize the time between thoughts, which you do not by actively trying not to think but by recognize when you are thinking and then to let the thoughts go. For me not moving is the most important thing because I always get uncomfortable in my joints so I can just focus on the desire to move and try to let it go. But there are many ways you can approach meditation, it has roots in many different traditions so there is no universally accepted correct way to do it.

[Anonymous No.19741361]

>>19741324
Quite a fearful and reactionary perspective, of course coming from the opposite side of the world with no understanding of meditation.
Meditation *can* be used for "elimination of the will*, but it can just as easily be used to strengthen the will and the ego incredibly.

[Anonymous No.19741362]

>>19741320
Are you mentally retarded?

[Anonymous No.19741398]

>>19741361
My understanding comes from Schopenhauer and he’s quite fond of the Buddhist school which I believe would agree with me that the prime purpose is to remove suffering through the rejection of the Will

Stop labeling people with dumb internet words

[Anonymous No.19741429]

>>19741361
>pic name
Massive cope, fucking off from life and telling others to fix their shit instead of lending a hand. That's not willpower, that's mental illness resulting in suicide. That man needed help, instead he got his peers ready with cameras in hand to record his meaningless death as if taking a fucking selfie.

[Anonymous No.19741431]

>>19741270
What is so profound about it could not possibly be explained in a 4chan post. I won't talk about the philosophy or the mysticism here but since you asked about the esotericism: there always needs to be a link in the world between God and man if man is to truly follow God; if such link is severed, mankind could not possibly find it's way towards God. Contrary to Christianity's tendency to reduce this link to the plane of material world, Shi'ism holds the Imam as the Theophany of God and thereby the guide who will make possible man's journey towards God. He does very interesting comparative study of Shiism and Christian apocrypha and esotericists. Chrstianity's esoteric link having been severed, Shi'ism has the the only esoteric link--inward path to God--available.
>>19741296
I take both to be nondualism.
>>19741319
So you judge a centuries long religious-mystical-philosophical tradition from a paragraph of translator's introduction? I am sorry but you missed the whole point. Read the authors I mentioned and then come back.

[Anonymous No.19741448]

>>19741431
>I take both to be nondualism.
But all Abrahamic religions hold that the creator is separate from his creation

[Anonymous No.19741453]

>>19741398
No.
Schopenhauer was a fearful reactionary with a cursory understanding.
There is that joke meme about the man in the well trying to sell the Buddha funko pops, attempting to tempt the Buddha into materialism with the observation that "the desire to overcome desire is still a desire".
Yes, exactly.
Meditation can be a honing of, and means to control, the will: which can then be unleashed with fury, compared to the undisciplined like yourself.

[Anonymous No.19741457]

>>19741429
Silence, slave.

[Anonymous No.19741460]

>>19741448
Yes, and in Schopenhauerian terms, the noumenon is not the phenomena. Your point?

[Anonymous No.19741469]

>>19741460
not him but phenomena aren't absolute reality, god and god's creation are both absolute reality in abrahamism

[Anonymous No.19741480]

>>19741460
>in lieu of anything relevant to say, I will regurgitate a meme related to my cope
You should probably meditate on what you just did.

[Anonymous No.19741484]

>>19741469
"Abrahamicism" is a very broad term anon. You need to read about Wahdat al-Wujud.

[Anonymous No.19741486]

>>19741431
>So you judge a centuries long religious-mystical-philosophical tradition from a paragraph of translator's introduction?
Yes.

Any retard can write thick books of meaningless verbiage about how God made these and these specific people in charge of what's good. There's nothing profound or even remotely reasoned to be found in the linked collection of traditions, it's all word plays and authority reinforcing drivel.

Where's the exploration of existence? "God did it"
Where's the tackling of ones own perception in relation to others? "Just obey your Imam, he is holy word"

It's crude and blunt.

[Anonymous No.19741493]

>>19741457
>Silence
Uncomfortable facts.

[Anonymous No.19741502]

>>19741480
>>19741486
You refuse to engage with the material. Nothing else is there for me to tell you.
>Where's the exploration of existence? "God did it"
Look up how Mulla Sadra uses those traditions to exactly just that.

[Anonymous No.19741503]

>>19741493
>bwah haw he needed help ;w;

[Anonymous No.19741510]

>>19741453
If Schopenhauer was a reactionary (what the fuck does that even mean?) then Buddha was that too

And to extend to you the same courtesy I’m going to call you a trannie for no apparent reason and totally unrelated tot he conversation

[Anonymous No.19741515]

>>19741510
Schopenhauer was reactionary in the sense of reacting without understanding, much like yourself.

[Anonymous No.19741517]

>>19741484
>Abrahamicism" is a very broad term anon.
Obscuring and muddying semantics when you’re losing the argument, you gotta love it

[Anonymous No.19741519]

>>19741503
Dalai Lama himself said that the only difference between self immolating monks and suicide bombers is that their dogma of non-violence prevents such acts, so instead they only "blow" themselves up.

It's utter mental illness and insanity, death cultists that are preying on the weakminded.

[Anonymous No.19741534]

>>19741519
The Dalai Lama is not the Buddha, and somehow I imagine the Dalai Lama would have other things to say about both self-immolation and suicide bombing than the so typically jewish line of crying "mental illness"

[Anonymous No.19741535]

>>19741515
And you’re a mental freak just like trannies are mental freaks

[Anonymous No.19741540]

>>19741535

[Anonymous No.19741544]

>>19741176
>Islamic Shi'ism
Unhealthy obsession with a long dead man that Iranians use to justify separating themselves from the rest of the muslim

[Anonymous No.19741548]

>>19741429
actual retard here

[Anonymous No.19741554]

>>19741517
As I told you, you need to look up Wahdat al-Wujud (translated as unity of existence). While the doctrine is held to be of Sufi origin by many, it has actually originated from the teachings of Shi'i Imams. The world is held to be of different layers: there is the exterior shell that is material world, several middling realms, and the inward that is God's theophany.

[Anonymous No.19741563]

>>19741544
This, I am Iranian diaspora and the only justification for Shia is on the basis of removing most of the Arabic elements and preserving the esoteric pre Islamic persian ones. Shiaism is to Islam what Catholicism is to Christianity, incorporating the old traditions with this new invading Semitic religion

[Anonymous No.19741570]

>>19741554
But the person you’re referring to would surely be labeled a heretic Monist, it’s like what Bruno was to the catholic church

[Anonymous No.19741572]

>>19741544
That is highly reductive. The Imams in Shi'ism are not merely "dead men". Their true existence is their immaterial existence--as lights or theophanies of God--even before creation of the world, while their material existence is only a manifestation of that. Please read more about it before dismissing it without knowledge.

[Anonymous No.19741577]

>>19741563
go away zoroschizo. nobody cares about your schizophrenic rants.

[Anonymous No.19741601]

>>19741570
Which person do you have in mind? To be clear, Shi'ism has always been controversial in Islam. Shias from the beginning has been persecuted and killed from the beginning. A hint of a person being a Shia was equal to a angry mob rushing to lynch him. But Shi'ism holds that people of different spiritual aptitudes ought to follow religion in different ways: the majority should follow just exoteric Sunnism (and even there is an exoteric tendency among the masses of majority Shia countries) while a few should be initiated into Shi'ism.

[Anonymous No.19741761]

>>19741563
That's wrong though. Shi'ism was invented by Iranians to destroy the Caliphate. The fact it survived after completing its task is odd

[Anonymous No.19741766]

>>19741572
>That is highly reductive. A bunch of Philosophical buzzwords

[Anonymous No.19741774]

>tfw when the holiest figures in your religion aren't related to you

[Anonymous No.19741785]

Shia Islam is just a charismatic sect that survives due to inertia

[Anonymous No.19741800]

>>19741766
These are not buzzwords, satan. You just don't understand them because you haven't read their books.
>>19741761
What a rather strange "political tool of Iranians" that happens to be the source of all worthwhile esotericism, mysticism and philosophy in Islam.
>>19741774
The Imam's material existence is irrelevant. Do you also denounce Jesus because he was born of Jewish mother?

[Anonymous No.19741811]

>>19740739
Not all can become ascetics

[Anonymous No.19741841]

>>19741785
Why do anons here feel the need to dismiss Shi'ism as "it is just this or just that"? The truth is Shi'ism is a highly complex and many-sided religion with a great depth of spiritual, mystical, and philosophical texts.

[Anonymous No.19741906]

>>19741800
>These are not buzzwords, satan. You just don't understand them because you haven't read their books.
they're buzzwords meant to sound deep that's about it
>What a rather strange "political tool of Iranians" that happens to be the source of all worthwhile esotericism, mysticism and philosophy in Islam.
according to you. Most Sufis were Sunnis.
>The Imam's material existence is irrelevant. Do you also denounce Jesus because he was born of Jewish mother?
With the exception of one your first 6 imams were arabs and your last six were nafris. Just find that amusing.
>>19741841
That's what it is. Anyone who actually knows about early Islamic history knows that Shia movements were political in nature. Mukhtar included the mawali in his rebellion and after he was crushed the mawali (mainly Ajam i.e Iranian) took over the movement and became a thorn at the side of the caliphate culminating with the vile Buyids coming to power. But that didn't last long barely a century before they were crushed by the Turks which causes immense seething from Iranians even now. Adud al Dawla the most famous buyid ruler larped as a Sassanid monarch and performed tons of old Iranian rituals some of which were led by Zoroastrian priests and somehow you're going to deny that Shi'ism wasn't a vehicle for Iranians but an organic movement?

[Anonymous No.19741930]

>>19741841
>The truth is Sunni Islam is a highly complex and many-sided religion with a great depth of spiritual, mystical, and philosophical texts.
ftfy

[Anonymous No.19741962]

>>19741906
>Most Sufis were Sunnis
Go look up genealogies of Sufi orders: all of them except Naqshbandi trace their origin to the first 6 Shia Imams. This itself is enough to prove Sufism as such is a divergent tradition from Shi'ism.
>Anyone who actually knows about early Islamic history knows that Shia movements were political in nature.
It has always been a spiritual movement first, politics as a second. After the death of Husayn the Imams refused and shunned absolutely any involvement in politics and focused exclusively on spiritual and religious teachings. The Caliph al-Ma'mun literally offered the 8th Imam Ali ibn Musa al-Ridha to make him the heir to the Caliphate, but the Imam sternly refused until Ma'mun threatened to kill him if he didn't accept, at which point he reluctantly accepted. I do not see how Buyid rulers larping as Sassanids have anything to do with Shia Imams whose narrations are mostly either fiqhi or spiritual.

[Anonymous No.19741979]

>>19741930
Wrong, Sunnism is an exoteric practice. Philosophy in Sunnism stopped after Ghazalli's critique of it in the Incoherence. Shias continued doing philosophy; up until the present day, they have an uninterrupted rich tradition of philosophy. Look up Suhrawardi, Illuminationism and the School of Isfahan. As for mysticism and spirituality, as I said above Sufism by the admission of the Sufis starts from the teachings of Shia Imams. You need to do more research anon.

[Anonymous No.19742002]

>>19741962
>Go look up genealogies of Sufi orders: all of them except Naqshbandi trace their origin to the first 6 Shia Imams. This itself is enough to prove Sufism as such is a divergent tradition from Shi'ism.
They also venerate Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman which no Shia would ever do. Nice try
> I do not see how Buyid rulers larping as Sassanids have anything to do with Shia Imams whose narrations are mostly either fiqhi or spiritual.
Buyids were shi'ites and "Shia Islam" was created during their rule. Most of your famous scholars lived during this time. Also love how you just ignored the shittons of shia rebellions. It doesn't matter if your imam wasn't involved tons of the laity were
>Suhrawardi
Was literally a Sunni

[Anonymous No.19742028]

>>19742002
>They also venerate Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman which no Shia would ever do. Nice try
These caliphs are not in their spiritual genealogy. Their spiritual genealogy starts with Ali and continues to Ja'far al-Sadiq until which it diverges from Shi'ism.
>"Shia Islam" was created during their rule.
You have no evidence for this. Most important persons in Shi'ism after Muhammad are the Imams, and the Imams shunned all political involvements for their followers. Political activities of Persians are irrelevant to their teachings. If Shi'ism was political, then we wouldn't have loads of narrations from the Imams ordering their Shias not get involved in any political movement.
>Was literally a Sunni
Yes, a "sunni" who thinks there is always a spiritual leader appointed by God who is different from the political leaders the majority follow (basically Shi'ism). You need to familiarize yourself with the Shi'i' practice of taqyiah. Even though he was practicing taqyiah Saladdin still had him killed. He wouldn't have made a day alive if he admitted openly to being a Shia.

[Anonymous No.19742034]

>>19742002
Also, even if we take Suhrawardi to be Sunni, the fact remains Sunnis never took his work seriously. He was only read in Shia circles and even today only Shias read him.

[Anonymous No.19742054]

>>19742028
>These caliphs are not in their spiritual genealogy. Their spiritual genealogy starts with Ali and continues to Ja'far al-Sadiq until which it diverges from Shi'ism.
There are tons of Sufi orders that start their lineage from Abu Bakr
>ordering their Shias not get involved in any political movement
looks they just ignored this order
>Even though he was practicing taqyiah
slimy practice.
>>19742034
>Also, even if we take Suhrawardi to be Sunni, the fact remains Sunnis never took his work seriously. He was only read in Shia circles and even today only Shias read him.
By that logic Aristotle was a muslim

[Anonymous No.19742091]

>>19742054
>There are tons of Sufi orders that start their lineage from Abu Bakr
No, only Naqshbandi starts with Abu Bakr. Every other order starts with the first six Imams.
>looks they just ignored this order
True Shias didn't.
>slimy practice.
Yeah, Shias should just let Sunnis massacre them, right? That's would be a commendable practice.
>By that logic Aristotle was a muslim
The point is: after Ghazali only Shias cared about philosophy.

I don't care to have these petty debates anon. If you are Sunni and you think it's spiritually sufficient for you, then good for you. But you might benefit from setting aside your prejudice and getting a correct understanding of Shi'ism, if only to arrive at a better understanding of Islam in general.

[Anonymous No.19742104]

One day, there will be a world without abrahamics.

[Anonymous No.19742111]

>>19742091
>Yeah, Shias should just let Sunnis massacre them, right
Maybe there's a reason for this. Perhaps being a fifth column?

[Anonymous No.19742127]

>>19741176
>>19741217
>>19741256

can you elabortae on esoteric shi'ism? i'm also intrigued by corbin body of work

[Anonymous No.19742155]

>>19741308
>What exactly is meditation?
nothing really, there's all kinds of meditation techniques(samatha, vipassana, tonglen, upaya etc) with completly different goals
the only thing all have in common is that all o fthem use the inherent quality of awarness to achieve their desired results
but those resutl can go from, achieve some kind of inner peace, to understand mental concepts, to develop willpower, to understand certains spiritual texts etc
so asking what's meditation is like asking what's excercise

[Anonymous No.19742156]

>>19742091
>I don't care to have these petty debates anon
I also don't neither of us will change our minds so it's a waste of time

[Anonymous No.19742168]

>>19742155
>asking what's meditation is like asking what's excercise
Well put.

[Anonymous No.19742170]

>>19741398
He wasn't aware of the biological mechanics of meditation. Most people don't seem to know the observable benefits it has on the brain. An excellent tool

[Anonymous No.19742475]

>>19741176
Utterly based

[Anonymous No.19742577]

>>19741332
https://www.themathesontrust.org/library/yasutani-lectures

[Anonymous No.19742950]

>>19741176
Where can I read about this?

[Anonymous No.19743555]

>>19742127
Seconded

[Anonymous No.19744347]

>>19742950
You can't, Anon sucked it out of his ass farts.

[Anonymous No.19744541]

>>19741761
> Shi'ism was invented by Iranians to destroy the Caliphate.
the earliest centers of Shi’ism was Arabic Iraq

[Anonymous No.19744977]

>>19742127
>>19743555
Shi'ism is characterized by the belief that everything in the world we see is the exterior of some other interior, or the appearance of some higher truth not accessible to the senses. These include the Qur'an, and Muhammad's Prophethood itself. That means: The Prophecy is the exterior, Imamate is the interior. Muhammad is tasked with conveying the sacred law, but the task of esoteric guidance falls to his heirs, his Progeny, that is the Twelve Imams. It is said that the world has a cyclical nature: it starts with the first and the innermost creation, reaches the outermost, and then ends by returning to where it all started. The first creation, the innermost, is the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the Face of Allah, the Mind, the Light of Muhammad, or the Light of Lights, by which everything in the world is created. The world reaches its outermost when the Cycle of Prophecy ends--that is, when Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets, conveys the final Message, the last religion and its sacred law. After this, the world descends again until reaches where it started. This is why Muhammad himself is the Prophet of the End Times; his arrival means the last stage of history has begun, and it will end by the arrival of the Mahdi, the 12th Imam, who will complete the return of the world to its innermost kernel.

One realizes that the Imams, Muhammad, Jesus, all the past Prophets, are not merely their material existence--they are the emanations of the Light of Lights, they are the Theophanies of Allah. One realizes that the world could not ever be without a manifestation of this Light, a divine leader, though not known by the majority, he alone is the guide towards God. The Imam of our time, Hujjat al-Mahdi, disappeared from the eyes centuries ago as the world did not merit his presence--in the same fashion as Jesus did according the Qur'an--but he is still the divine leader, the master of the times. Salvation is only possible through initation to his circle. He is said to return with Jesus at the height corruption and injustice to end this stage of time and establish a just kingdom. In a sense, his return will be the unveiling of all secrets. But man is a microcosm of the world. One could anticipate his return by bringing it about in his own self.

[Anonymous No.19745014]

>>19742950
The best source available to western readers is the work of Henry Corbin, the great Islamologist who was an amazing philosopher in his own right. His magnum opus on Shi'ism is "En Islam Iranien" but for some reason it has not been translated into English (although his other less important works are).

[Anonymous No.19745060]

>>19744977
The Muslim conception of God is morally deficient though. Allah does not love the prodigal, for example. Why subscribe to a religion that worships a being that is fickle towards its creation? There are other conceptions of God in which God is actually all loving while still maintaining ultimate justice.

[Anonymous No.19745135]

>>19745060
Wouldn't you think that if He loved everything equally then the love would become meaningless? At any rate you seem to be referring to this verse of the Qur'an (7:31): "Children of Adam! Take your adornment at every place of worship; and eat and drink, but be you not prodigal; He loves not the prodigal." This seems to me more of a moral admonition and guidance rather than a literal statement of what God does and doesn't love.

[Anonymous No.19745176]

>>19741176

[Anonymous No.19745221]

>>19744541
>Arabic Iraq
Formerly a Sassanid province with tons of Ajam

[Anonymous No.19745248]

>>19741289
but he does... have you never visited 4chan?

[Anonymous No.19745253]

>>19745176
I think your Sufi friend is understandable. Philosophy as started by the Greeks has degenerated a lot from the original Greek sense. It used to be a means of spiritual purification and a vehicle towards God, but now it is practiced as empty words and meaningless game of language. I think philosophy in the original sense is of great value. The Qur'an repeatedly encourages you to use your intellect to know God, and Shia Imams sometimes gave arguments that are not dissimilar to the Greek sense of philosophy. But I wouldn't read Sartre or Foucault or most of the analytics even if you forced me to.

[Anonymous No.19745579]

>>19744977
what is your opinion on Sadr Al-Din Al Shirazi (Mulla Sadra)?

[martineoconnor No.19745592]

>>19740739
denial... right down to the very ruth.
>ib4cocaine

[Anonymous No.19745604]

>>19740739
>Schopenhauer
he didn't believe for 1 second to his philosophy. schopenhauer was a
> poet
> prose writer (the greatest in german)
> keen observer of nature
> genius
but not a systematic metaphysician.

also nietzsche was an incel who praised life , schopenhauer was a life enjoyer who praised asceticism. their respective personalities emerge from the background of their ideas.

[Anonymous No.19746261]

>>19745604
True. However, if you ask Nietzsche, your last point is reversed (i.e. the personality of the philosopher makes the ideas)

[Anonymous No.19746285]

>>19746261
i phrased it badly. when is said "emerge from" i meant "emerge in spite of"

[Anonymous No.19746708]

>>19740819
HAHAHAHA filtered by The Will to Power. Unfathomably filtered

[Anonymous No.19746733]

>>19741217
The Sufi mystics were there long before Christianity and Islam but their ideas were later contextualised by Islam (due to the convert or die mantra). The Sufi are generally hated and hunted by the aristocracy who use Islam to control the masses.

[Anonymous No.19746749]

>>19740739
No, it is just braindamaged poos who just disregard themselves. It is only in India where such retarded practice can fluorish, in fact for whatever reason India always attracts those most disgusting people and practises, it seems their culture literally allowes and promotes everything that is dirty and related to excrement

[Anonymous No.19746757]

>>19741431
>Shi'ism has the the only esoteric link--inward path to God--available
This simply isn't true, it's just easier to see from the outside. With all tradition, it's about meeting the right people who have continue the practice down generations. The most accessible spiritual teaching are Yoga/Tantra as the teachers are very open to western students (there are a lot of scammers too though). But you still have genuine Taoists, Shinto, Sufis, even gnostic Christians who speak the language of Christ (Aramaic) and others that consider Christ the usurper.

The problem with Sufis is that I doubt you would find many that are willing to teach a white man even if you had the Arabic skills but even if you did getting to them and your general safety with them would not be ideal.

[Anonymous No.19746784]

>>19741563
Considering that most of what we consider “Arabic” developments in science, philosophy, etc. are actually Persian this is more of an argument for the pointlessness of the Sunni branch.

[Anonymous No.19746931]

>>19745579
I haven't delved into his work yet but he is known as the pinnacle of philosophy among Shias. What I've read of him in secondary sources is highly based.
>>19746757
I suppose this is the "Guenonian" view. Corbin doesn't believe it's all good as long as it's a tradition. He has specific criteria for a religion to have esoteric link. He thinks early Christianity had the link but the Church's insistence on incarnationism led to its downfall.
>The problem with Sufis is that I doubt you would find many that are willing to teach a white man
I don't think so, at least not among the Shia. If you learn Persian and find a decent Shaykh in Iran, he would gladly teach you. In fact Corbin did the same with Allamah Tabatabai, and the latter took very kindly to him.

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.19747106]

>>19740739

Beauty is rooted in the ideal, and realized in the optimal, not extremized in the notional; the realistic ideal consists in optimality, which entails integral engagement with matter; the optimal human body is vegan, healthy, fit, mobile, strong.

The body should integrate within itself the physical strength & mobility of the animal, just as the mind should attain to the noetic clarity & lucidity of the angel.

[Anonymous No.19747855]

bump

[Anonymous No.19749122]

>>19741273
Thank you I have been looking for a collection of Shia hadith

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.19749814]

>>19747106

Better, in this context:

>...the optimal human body is vegan, healthy, fit, [agile], strong.

[Anonyman No.19749822]

>>19747106
>the optimal human body is vegan, healthy, fit, mobile, strong.
But that is nutritionally impossible for a human being.

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.19749848]

>>19749822

You are ignorant.

[Anonymous No.19750025]

>>19749822
No it’s not, you can get B12 from Nori and certain strains of fermented tofu, 100% of everything your body needs can be obtained from non-animal sources

[Anonymous No.19750033]

>>19740819
>See Diogenes.
"How much pride you expose to view, Diogenes, by seeming not to be proud." -- Chad Plato
Also works for fakirs, Zen twats, and others.

[Anonymous No.19750036]

>>19741176
>Henry Corbin
Unequivocally based
t. Have been reading myself

[Anonymous No.19750047]

>>19740739
Sadhus like that used to haunt me as a teen (in a good way, if that makes sense). Then I ultimately realized that Eastern mystics rely on the same "shout and pout" marketing antics that Western occultists do: make a lot of noise about supernatural powers (siddhis for yogis) and then pout when people "immaturely" seek those powers or confirmation of them. It's a grand old razzle-dazzle.

[Anonymous No.19750059]

>>19740819
Pure gaslighting

[Anonymous No.19750063]

>>19740948
???? Guess we have different dictionary