Refute him.

[Anonymous No.19730648]

>this kills the exoteric retards

[Anonymous No.19730671]

>>19730648
Christianity was the reason the West didn't suck as much.

[Anonymous No.19730675]

>>19730648
>Refute him
Pic related, a Catholic Empire, why is it so easy to refute Evola and Nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.19730696]

>>19730648
>muh power!
>muh survival of the fittest!
>muh social darwinist mental retardation will surely build a better civilization than a system of morality that compels people to act as virtuously as possible in society

Also it is demonstrably not incompatible with:
>self-sufficiency
see America's foundation and its values
>knowledge
see the Catholic Church in the vanguard of scientific advancement for most of human history during its existence
>aristocracy
Every absolutist monarchy in Europe was Christian, or at least the crushing overwhelming majority
>even Fascism itself
See Hitler

Even from a Fascist point of view Evola is a short-sighted retard with one-dimensional perceptions of civilization and people's relationship with faith, and from a non-retarded perspective he's just a clear imbecile through and through.

[Anonymous No.19730720]

>>19730671
How do you know? Knowledge of pre-Christian European Traditions was mostly destroyed or twisted. You think people worshipping Gods of battle would allow their countries to be overtaken by jews and shitskinned foreign retards? Christianity spiritually castrated the West and ultimately led to it being where it is today.

>>19730675
That doesn't refute him at all.

[Anonymous No.19730730]

>>19730720
>You think people worshipping Gods of battle would allow their countries to be overtaken by jews
Yes.
>Christianity spiritually castrated the West and ultimately led to it being where it is today
It made it not suck as much. You forget that a lot of the good shit in the West right now comes directly from Christianity.

[Anonymous No.19730748]

>>19730720
>Complacency in face of invasion was caused by Christianity because... It just was, ok!
Wonder why they threw eight crusades for this exact reason, but go ahead, LARP as some worshiper of "muh odin" or some gaylord shit like that because you're an 18 year old retard who just discovered fringe internet politics.

>That doesn't refute him at all.
It does precisely that in every level, he is arguing that Christianity is incompatible with forceful systems of authoritarian power, hierarchy and power structures, and even names aristocracy itself, and there you have a Christian expansionist Empire dominating a tremendous amount of territory.

[Anonymous No.19730756]

>>19730675
And then they created Latino people. Thanks, retards. Good thing you categorized them.

[Anonymous No.19730757]

>>19730720
>That doesn't refute him at all.
How?. The Spanish Empire was literally the greatest Empire since Rome, and probably the best in history. This BTFO hard Evola thesis.

[Anonymous No.19730773]

>>19730756
You're welcome, amigo. I've never seen a latino with a diaper fetish, or a furry fetish, or dressing as a dog in a leather harness, or with a cuckold fetish, or jacking off to anime or my little pony, or watching sissy hypno...

[Anonymous No.19730777]

>>19730696
I don't think Evola was a social Darwinist. He was also pro-virtue, you are misunderstanding his aristocratic views.
>see America's foundation and its values
Fair point, but ignoring countless other examples to the contrary.
>see the Catholic Church in the vanguard of scientific advancement for most of human history during its existence
Because nobody else was allowed. That isn't even accurate btw.
>Every absolutist monarchy in Europe was Christian, or at least the crushing overwhelming majority
Only later in history, and their aristocratic values didn't come from christianity, christianity grafted itself onto them, the same way jews will change their names to be accepted. Christianity was the reason they fell, because it gave power to the plebs.
>See Hitler
Political strategy. Are you totally unaware of the Pagan beliefs of the Nazis and their disdain for "Jewish" Christianity? All of their symbols are pagan, Himmler akd other top Nazis were obsessed with Paganism.

I don't care for fascism though.

[Anonymous No.19730785]

>>19730730
>Yes
Contrary to all logic.
>It made it not suck as much. You forget that a lot of the good shit in the West right now comes directly from Christianity
What is good about the West right now?

[Anonymous No.19730798]

>>19730696
>see America's foundation and its values
Including bringing the niggers over and shacking up with them and dressing them up and breeding them like pets. Then fighting a war and killing each other over their freedom purely on principle where the side for abolition actually hated them more and didn't want to live near them.

[Anonymous No.19730822]

>>19730748
>Wonder why they threw eight crusades for this exact reason
The concept of Holy War is totally foreign to Christianity, it comes from pre-Christian Aryan beliefs (Valhalla, the Celtic beliefs on death in battle leading o immortality, others). The crusades are as christian as a tree chopped down an erected for the winter solstice or eggs and bunnies during the equinox.

Evola was a huge fan of the Holy Roman Empire, nothing about it comes from Christian dogma. He isn't arguing these things are incompatible with christianity. Christianity grafts itself onto other systems, like a jew.

[Anonymous No.19730833]

>>19730777
>Because nobody else was allowed. That isn't even accurate btw.
Extremely idiotic one-dimensional perception of the Church, the kind of moronic thing someone who believes the black death was caused because "THE CHURCH HUNTED LE CATS BECAUSE THEY'RE LE DEVIL". The Church just happened to be the most resourceful organization around, and they put it to great use

I could provide an infinite list of Christian scientists but you can google it and it would be useless anyway

>Only later in history,
Depends on what you mean by "later in history", the Church had massive power over the governments of Europe as early as 900 and something and continued to have said power well into the 1500s if not further.
>their aristocratic values didn't come from christianity
They were deeply enmeshed into each other, as the King's god-given rights made him the political authority
>Christianity was the reason they fell,
after many centuries of success under Christianity, ok then

>Are you totally unaware of the Pagan beliefs of the Nazis
Irrelevant, he is arguing that the presence of Christianity doesn't allow for such government systems, but the nation of Germany was already a Christian one before Hitler and it accepted him and nazism despite these values, if the argument is for compatibility, it seems to work.

>>19730798
>the very fundamental values of a civilization being eschewed in favor of something that goes against them and financially benefits only the small percentage of the population capable of owning slaves
So much for "muh joos"

>the side for abolition actually hated them more and didn't want to live near them.
Almost as if the civil war was not about slavery

>>19730822
It doesn't take any particular tradition or custom to fight people involving your territory.
>Christian territory being invaded by sarracens
>Pope sends a letter telling everyone to go fight them
As easy as ABC

[Anonymous No.19730835]

>>19730696
>America's foundation and its values, "Christian" but mostly Masonic, that was barely lived out and was quickly subverted into federal authoritarianism that allow a few petty freedoms if even that
>literally all evidence points to the contrary, the scant scientific progress through out the middle ages happened either because it was theologically irrelevant, or there was enough Christian dressings and dick-sucking that it was permitted.
>aristocracy =/= absolutist monarchy
>Hitler the atheist and one of his top underlying being a pagan and anti-christian. there were clerical fascists but the point is moot considering evola was not a fascist
What a brainfart of a post.

[Anonymous No.19730836]

>>19730757
Where does Christianity advocate for that sort of stuff? As far as I know the idea of a sacred empire is pagan, not semitic/christian. Please let me know if the Bible advocates for this sort of thing, because I don't believe it does. I may change my position on Christianity as a religion for weaklings and plebs or jews if you can do this.

[Anonymous No.19730847]

>>19730822
>a religion can work in different political, economic, national and cultural settings
>that means it's Jewish!
the shit you /pol/tards say sometimes, I swear.

[Anonymous No.19730880]

>>19730833
>Extremely idiotic one-dimensional perception of the Church, the kind of moronic thing someone who believes the black death was caused because "THE CHURCH HUNTED LE CATS BECAUSE THEY'RE LE DEVIL". The Church just happened to be the most resourceful organization around, and they put it to great use
>I could provide an infinite list of Christian scientists but you can google it and it would be useless anyway
Prove me wrong instead of sperging out then. Did the church not monopolise education for a long time? I am of course aware there are Christian scientists, calm down, I'm not a retard athiest.
>Depends on what you mean by "later in history", the Church had massive power over the governments of Europe as early as 900 and something and continued to have said power well into the 1500s if not further.
Ya, I mean up to and even after 900. The aristocracy was obviously all pagan until christianity arrived and after a long time they converted, despite not getting rid of all pagan traditions.
>They were deeply enmeshed into each other, as the King's god-given rights made him the political authority
That doesn't refute what I said at all. Of course they were intertwined, since christianity grafted itself onto the old culture. The concept of a divine king is obviously pre-christian.
>Irrelevant, he is arguing that the presence of Christianity doesn't allow for such government systems,
No he isn't, I think that's your interpretation of what he is arguing. Obviously christianity can form itself to whatever, history proces this, he is arguing against the religion and it's principles itself.

[Anonymous No.19730892]

>>19730833
>It doesn't take any particular tradition or custom to fight people involving your territory
Yes, but the concept of a Holy War is totally foreign to Christianity and derives from pre-Christian beliefs.

[Anonymous No.19730895]

>>19730892
Which pre-Christian beliefs exactly?

[Anonymous No.19730903]

>>19730847
>muh /pol/
Idiot

[Anonymous No.19730906]

>>19730648
Based. Just go in into any ortho-larper thread and you see the truth behind this

[Anonymous No.19730910]

>>19730903
>muh idiot
/pol/

[Anonymous No.19730915]

>>19730895
The idea of immortality achieved through battle (a core belief of the holy war) comes from pre-Christian indo-Aryan beliefs such as those of Valhalla for the vikings, the beliefs of the fearless celtic warriors off the top of my head. I believe the bhagavad gita and the ancient persians also held similar beliefs, as well as many others which I am forgetting. The romans as well to an extent.

[Anonymous No.19730916]

>>19730836
>Christianity
>religion for weaklings and plebs or jews
lol

[Anonymous No.19730951]

>>19730916
Start arguing any time. As far as I'm concerned the quote hasn't been disproven. Christianity is a religion that promotes weakness, passivity, egalitarianism, and blind faith. Nobody has shown me any proof to the contrary from the dogma. Some elites later on outwardly adopting it as a cover (while holding on to their pre-christian arstocratic traits) doesn't prove anything except christianity conforms to whatever it has to to spread itself, like a jew changing it's name to fit in in Europe.

[Anonymous No.19730973]

>>19730951
>Books of Job, Elijah and Abraham's story the most might makes right shit possible
>GOD THE LORD
>CHRIST THE KING
>KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
>m-m-m-muh weakness and egalitarianism
You are not worth it. You're a mental teenager, probably a literal teenager who discovered internet politics and gravitated to the most radical ideas possible because they're going to save you from the mean SJWs and trannies, too retarded to see your autistic obsession with black sun pagan neo-nazi retardation is never going to achieve jack shit in the real world, it is all a cope and comfort aesthetics of a manchild. "Muh strength!" coming from gaylords who shine the boots of authoritarian centralized power systems because they'll keep you safe from the meanies.

I recommend that you kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.19730978]

>>19730648
>God takes both his legs
Refuted.

[Anonymous No.19731009]

>>19730973
Your "argument" consists of greentexting titles, which is superficial at best. You haven't approached any philosophy or values, because there are none in support of your side. I can reference countless plebian maxims espoused by christianity with a minimal amount of research.

Then you write an entire paragraph consisting of personal attacks and assumptions (most of which are incorrect), and accuse me of being immature, as if I, not you, were the one having an emotional tantrum more characteristic of a young woman on her period than a man.

This type of behaviour is coming from the Christian. Would Jesus be proud? I rest my case.

[Anonymous No.19731017]

>>19730978
>God allows jews to take over the world and 3rd world animals to rape white women almost with impunity because his followers are too weak to do anything about it
Christianity refuted.

[Anonymous No.19731023]

>>19731009
NTA but pretty sure "Bringing the kingdom of God to earth" is a known Christian tenet and somewhere in the Bible. Might re-check if I have time tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.19731024]

the takeaway i get from these debates seems to always boil down to
>european christians did X but X is completely foreign to christian belief, so was christianity the cause of X or did they do X in spite of christianity?

what do you guys think?

[Anonymous No.19731026]

>>19731017
The world is cursed. We are not in the Garden. Stay obsessed with decaying material filth.
And by the way, you would find most people opposed to immigration are Christians. Whereas it is the atheists and pagan larpers who welcome them with open arms :^)
America is responsible for the downfall of the west. And its all because they chose to separate Church and state.

[Anonymous No.19731030]

>>19731023
So?

[Anonymous No.19731033]

>>19731009
Not that guy, but you are only proving him right. Everyday I’m grateful I moved on from Godless atheism. I left that pit 8 years ago and never looked back. I suggest you do the same if you want to change the world.

[Anonymous No.19731043]

>>19731026
>pagan larpers
True pagans like me are extremely against it. The offenders would be butchered mercilessly and fought off in pre-Christian Europe. The pope and Jesuits are massive globohomo shills, Catholics invented the concept of social justice. It isn't so black and white.

[Anonymous No.19731052]

>>19731033
Atheism is far more retarded than Christianity. My problem with Christianity as a religion is already explained itt. Pagan philosophies and esoteric knowledge are superior.
>Not that guy, but you are only proving him right
How?

[Anonymous No.19731053]

>>19730880
>Did the church not monopolise education for a long time?
Not him, but,
Not at all, given that most education happened through apprenticeships. Guilds took care of it early on. Later, it was mostly because governments divested their responsibilities to the Church, as they also did with healthcare.

[Anonymous No.19731063]

>>19731009
You have been given a wealth of arguments already, plenty of which touching in the very philosophical essence of Christian dogma, and if you are incapable of understanding you've been proved wrong multiple times it's because your own emotional assertions about Christianity, fueled by childish mental 10 year old fantasies of power fed by schizo philosophers with zero influence even over philosophy itself, got in the way of basic reading comprehension. You have been proved wrong, and that's that. An immature child taking off their diapers and shitting up the place, needs to get a good slap upside the head from the grown-ups to get a grip with their little eyes all teary, even resorting to "I-I-I'm not that thing you said!"

Put your diapers on and next time act like a grown man and you're not going to be told off like a child.

[Anonymous No.19731083]

>>19731024
>did they do X in spite of christianity?
Yes, since nowhere in christianity are things like a holy war or sacred empire on earth (from somebody who isn't Jesus) advocated.

I am open to discussion and would change my opinion if someone could show me aristocratic virtues espoused in christianity, but I haven't seen that, and many Christians seem to be manbabies who breakdown in rage when confronted with potential flaws in their religion. I therefor prefer pre-Christian religions/philosophies or esoteric Traditions which by their nature promote aristocratic traits. If Christianity was more in the vein of pelagianism it would be better, but that is a heresy because it is at odds with christian dogma, further proving mine/Evola's point.

[Anonymous No.19731091]

>>19731083
2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

- there must be serious prospects of success;

- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

[Anonymous No.19731094]

>>19731083
>I therefor prefer pre-Christian religions/philosophies or esoteric Traditions
any in particular?

[Anonymous No.19731096]

>>19731026
>The world is cursed
sickly christer hands typed this post

[Anonymous No.19731103]

>>19731096
He isn't wrong, Arcadia is our right and our destiny.

[Anonymous No.19731105]

>>19731091
resist not evil?

[Anonymous No.19731111]

>>19731083
You need to be mentally retarded to ask what is aristocratic about Christianity. A mental child who doesn't know shit about what they're talking about and just wants to larp as odinist with their internet friends. Everything from the organization of the holy trinity, to the ranks of angels, to God being described as an all-caps LORD to Romans 13 to the general "God does whatever he wants" nature of it, are purely authoritarian aristocratic, but the average manchild doesn't even know the most surface level concepts of Christianity, so what the fuck do they know?

[Anonymous No.19731116]

>>19731063
>You have been given a wealth of arguments already, plenty of which touching in the very philosophical essence of Christian dogma,
Such as? There has been little talk of Christian dogma itt, prove me wrong.

You yourself are not able to respond in any depth, nearly all of your post is butthurt drivel once again. Call me a child all you like, people can read your angry rambling posts and see the truth.

[Anonymous No.19731118]

what is the definition of an aristocrat?

[Anonymous No.19731122]

>>19730648

Constantine uplifted Christianity to placate the Jews and instead if placated everyone else.

[Anonymous No.19731124]

>>19731116
See that you are a larping manchild, but everyone can see through you already, they don't need any posts but your own, even those who agree with you do too, and feel the sting in their spirits, but a lifetime of larping makes you a convincing self-deceiver.

[Anonymous No.19731142]

>>19731111
and how does that translate to real life aristocracy

[Anonymous No.19731148]

I have a question: Can a being choose its nature? If it can, why did it choose to be such and such, and how could this choice occur in a state of complete indifference? If a certain nature seemed desirable, from whence came the desire? How can a completely indifferent(free) substrate be drawn to choose, if it is not compelled by foreign interference and thus necessitated?

[Anonymous No.19731153]

>>19730951
>>19730951
>Christianity is a religion that promotes weakness, passivity
Christianity promotes perfectionism (Matt 5:48) and universal compassionate love (Matt 25:31-46).

>egalitarianism
There are literally kings in the Bible, like David and Solomon

>and blind faith.
Faith and reason. Fideism is rejected by the Catholic Church https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fides_et_ratio

>Some elites later on outwardly adopting it as a cover
"Some" or literally almost every single aristocracy in Europe since its foundation?.

>while holding on to their pre-christian arstocratic traits
Like the ones of Constantine? Or Justinian?.

[Anonymous No.19731159]

>>19731111
You are so mad, please calm down, Jesus would not be impressed. Your point is very weak. Yes, God and the angels in heaven, the divine, external to man, could be seen as displaying aristocratic traits (although you haven't actually named any, we will take you at your word). But the teachings of Christianity to man completely externalises these things and doesn't profess them directly. God has these things, man doesn't. Man is a pleb who can only partake in these things theough devotion and penance.

You seem to think that because Christianity has translated words as Lord or King (for God) that this is the same as promoting aristocratic traits through dogma, which it doesn't do, and which you haven't shown. So one could be excused for ignoring your accusations towards one's intellectual abilities.

[Anonymous No.19731161]

>>19731111
>the only real aristocrats are the ones I made up with superpowers and we must ALL bow to them, that means you mister Roman magistrate or I will smash and burn more temples and refuse to serve in the army
Well when you put it that way, yes very aristocratic of them to impose heavenly bureaucracy on all mankind as equals in slavery to the astral despot

[Anonymous No.19731163]

>>19731124
>seething retard who can't make an argument to save his faith is calling other people manbabies
Please take some time to reflect on your life and know thyself.

[Anonymous No.19731185]

>>19731159
>>19731161
>What do you mean religious aristocratic values represent power to God and not my State daddy?

Retards all the way down who don't even care about their gaylord pagan larp, they just want some State daddy to dickride.

>>19731163
The self-deceiver fails to deceive any more, upon facing reality, his butt is hurt.

[Anonymous No.19731189]

>>19731094
Plotinus in particular, Plato, initiatic teachings as set forth by Traditionalists (Guenon and Evola), asceticism and associated philosophies set forth in Hermeticism and Buddhism, some esoteric authors in the same category.

[Anonymous No.19731196]

>>19731185
Very profound, thank you for contributing. I will however not judge all Christians nor Christ himself based off of the example you set, and henceforth will ignore you.

[Anonymous No.19731199]

>>19731185
>State daddy
That got a kek from me, but alas, you will not be evading charges of skydaddy. The Romans asked rather nicely for christers to burn some incense but the latter insisted on suicide by cop time and time again, and since blood sanctifies any cause the Romans, like the British putting bounties on Indian cobras, were soon infested with what they had tried to suppress, because the offer of martyrdom and paradise at the hands of a resented false lord was too good

[Anonymous No.19731200]

>>19731148
can someone answer my question?

[Anonymous No.19731212]

>>19731200
It is too deep for me and I don't have the answer. They are interesting questions though, worth contemplating.

[Anonymous No.19731220]

>>19730822
>Evola was a huge fan of the Holy Roman Empire, nothing about it comes from Christian dogma.
historylets