/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19699856]

>start learning latin because I want to read latin books and i already know a lot of Spanish so it should be easy
>Getting better at the bare basics, think it's time to learn conjugation because Duolingo does that poorly
>Look up "latin conjugation chart"
>Pic
Jesus fucking Christ how do people learn this and use it in conversation like it's nothing?

[Anonymous No.19699871]

>>19699856
I mean you come from a language where people think niggerese aka ebonics is actual and valid English. No wonder you're filtered by Latin.

[Anonymous No.19700130]

Learning conjugations and declensions isn't that bad. Though the different tenses do sometimes blend together. What fucks with me is the word order.

[Anonymous No.19700201]

Take the Dowling pill

[Anonymous No.19700214]

>>19699856
what? if you know spanish this should be easy for you, it has the same amount of conjugations

[Anonymous No.19700255]

>gets filtered by conjugation despite knowing Spanish
I'd get if you had issues with declensions because its a pain in the ass memorizing that but the conjugations are almost entirely derivative in Spanish.
Latin vs Spanish for Present
Singular Plural
o -> o mus -> mos
s -> s tis -> is
t -> - nt -> n

[Anonymous No.19700327]

>>19699856
A useful trick the Wheelock's points out is that, generally, the future tense uses an I, as in "will", whereas as imperfect (past) tense uses an A, as in "was."

Examples:
>Present: Laudas
>Past: Laudabas
>Future: Laudabis

[Anonymous No.19701415]

>>19700201
This. I've been writing out declensions for 3 months now. I probably have arthritis by now, but at least I know the Latin declensions and verb endings.

[Anonymous No.19701900]

>>19699856
As Lithuanian, this seems pretty easy
Be born in a shit tier country next time idiot, lmao

[Anonymous No.19701987]

>>19701900
Your country will soon be annexed by the imminent Russian Empire.

[Anonymous No.19702387]

>>19701987
Independence? Easy come easy go

[Anonymous No.19702425]

>>19700255
Wrong. Spanish is precisely invertebrate Latin, i.e. Latin with the declensional spine removed. This is precisely and quite simply why to most neo-Latin speakers reading Latin for them is like asking them to read ancient Greek.

[Anonymous No.19702430]

How long did it take you to comprehend the whole of lingua latina?
Did you drill vocab on anki?

[Anonymous No.19702433]

>>19699856
like it's nothing?? anon, there are probably less than 500 people in the world today who could actually have an impromptu full conversation in Latin.

[Anonymous No.19702523]

>>19699856
You think this is hard despite studying Spanish? The Spanish verb is much more complicated than the Latin verb.

[Anonymous No.19702700]

>>19699856
ba=was
bi=will
3rd plural bi->bu
there, simplified that terrible chart for you
Learn conjugations one tense at a time, one stem vowel at a time.
Use a textbook. Wheelock's will get you started just fine.
Looking at charts without any understanding of the basics is daunting and not useful. Begin at the beginning. Charts are for reference.

[Anonymous No.19702736]

>>19702433
The conjugations aren't the problem, Latin declension system blows the typical Spanish speaker out of the water

[Anonymous No.19702759]

>>19702736
This. The conjugations are so overblown, it's not that fucking hard. It's the declensions and the weird uses of the dative and ablative.

[Anonymous No.19702889]

>>19702736
>>19702759
filtered
Wait until you learn about the subjunctive and its syntax. That is where Latin spikes in difficulty.

[Anonymous No.19702894]

normies

[Anonymous No.19702924]

>>19702425
>Latin with the declensional spine removed
Great that is entirely my point dumbass.

[Anonymous No.19703255]

>>19699856
>Jesus fucking Christ how do people learn this and use it in conversation like it's nothing?
Outside of the Vatican, who exactly? Even university level latin is slow-paced translation tedium. Nobody teaches conversational Latin.

[Anonymous No.19703471]

>>19702889
I'm not filtered, I'm enjoying Latin. I was just correcting him on what is hard at first. No shit the subjunctive is hardest and the syntax is fucking mental, but it's the declensions that filter most beginners, not conjugations.

[Anonymous No.19703482]

>>19703255
Most people who use it conversationally are part of online communities of self learners. And actually there are a few books that do teach conversational Latin. I would say there's more than 500 since there are latin vloggers with no English on their channels who have more subs than that. I would say like like two thousand globally have a b2-c2 conversational skill in Latin.

[Anonymous No.19703886]

>>19703482
i hate the "classical" pronunciation modern LARPers use. just use ecclesial

[Anonymous No.19704056]

>>19703886
I wouldn't pronounce Old English with modern English pronunciation or Sanskrit with Hindi pronunciation, so to pronounce Latin with modern Italian pronunciation isn't just lazy, it's actually unbased and retarded.

[Anonymous No.19704096]

>>19701415
I'm building myself a set of quiz apps to drill declensions and conjugations. Also slowly going through some old textbooks and digitizing the composition exercises.

[Anonymous No.19704208]

>>19699856
>use it in conversation like it's nothing?
You are aware it is a dead language, right? There is no one using this in conversation unless they are so far up their own ass they can see out their mouth

[Anonymous No.19704240]

>>19703886
There's more material to learn reconstructed pronunciation than there is ecclesiastical latin
What's the point of choosing ecclesiastical?

[Anonymous No.19704258]

>>19704240
Most people who study it for reading intuitively end up doing a sort of Spanish-like pronunciation, minus possibly the "k" sound for words like Cicero.

[Anonymous No.19704264]

Are they any languages that don't use conjugation? I'd like to learn one because conjugation is hard.

[Anonymous No.19704278]

>>19704240
Catholic superstition

[Anonymous No.19704284]

>>19704258
How is Cicero actually spelled in ancient latin? I never got any satisfying answers beyond kikero.

[Anonymous No.19704297]

>>19699856
>use it in conversation
First of all, you will never use Latin in conversation unless you join a group of fanatic Latinists. Learning Latin is for reading Latin literature, not to speak.

Second, that's just the complexity of all romance languages. If you surrender in front of that you will also never learn Italian and French, which is a pity.

Pic related.

[Anonymous No.19704308]

>>19701900
Lietuvių kalba turbūt sunkiausia visoje Europoje, ar mes ne autocucked čia gimę

[Anonymous No.19704313]

>>19699856
The funny thing is that a lot of languages are very similar to this.

[Anonymous No.19704318]

>>19704284
It was pronounced Kee-kero and would have morphed to Chee-chero by the time when the overwhelming majority of spoken Latin was vulgar Latin.

[Anonymous No.19704335]

>>19704284
You'll never know.

[Anonymous No.19704576]

>>19699856
>way less conjugations than in Spanish

[Anonymous No.19706028]

>>19704308
Kaip tik atvirkščiai, gimti čia pats geriausias. Tada gauni išmokt sunkiausia kalba nuo vaikystės. Po to visos kitos kalbos babbymode

[Anonymous No.19706075]

>>19706028
kiek užsienio kalbų moki? anglų tai easy, bet dabar mokausi italų ir visi laikai veikia kitaip ir tariamoji nuosaka biškį sudėtingesnė, tai sunku vis tiek.

[Anonymous No.19706438]

>>19704096
incredibly based

[Anonymous No.19706545]

>>19704297
Learning something is for what you intend to do with it.

If you intend to learn to swim to be a lifeguard, then that's fine and if you intend to learn to swim just for pleasure that's okay too. Likewise if you intend to learn to read that's just as valid as learning to socialize in a niche community. Quite simply, if you don't want to speak Latin, then don't. Plenty of people say learn French instead of Italian because it's more practical for a career, but not everyone wants to be a businessman in Quebec. Some people just like Italian cuz they think it sounds cool.

You guys are the ones who end up looking absolutely mental trying to pick and choose what languages are legitimate uses of time to study and for what exactly randos you've never even met are allowed to use them for.

[Anonymous No.19706802]

>>19699871
t. Retard that doesn't understand linguistic change.

[Anonymous No.19706815]

>>19703886
>just use the pronunciation that's literally just italian phonology on top of latin words
Retarded cuck

[Anonymous No.19706862]

>>19706438
Working with the composition exercises will be tricky, since several variants and word orders could be considered correct (e.g., uxor et filia == uxor filiaque) . I will either have to manually include multiple solutions, or come up with a more elaborate checking algorithm. And decide how hard to be on typos.

[Anonymous No.19707043]

>>19703255
The Dharma Initiative

[Anonymous No.19707810]

>>19699856
wait till you get to ancient greek, this is nothing

[Anonymous No.19707837]

>>19706545
Fair enough. Sorry for my assumption.

[Anonymous No.19707840]

>>19702425
conjugations are not the case declensions, imbecile. work on your reading comprehension before you post.

[Anonymous No.19708098]

>>19707810
ancient greek participles make me wanna kms

[Anonymous No.19708110]

>>19707837
No problem, sorry if I sounded harsh. More people should learn more languages and I think we agree on that. Whatever happens to motivate, it's all good.

[Anonymous No.19708128]

>>19704284
That's how it was spelled, but in Latin "c" almost always makes a hard "k" sound. So for Cicero, it would be pronounced Kicker-o

[Anonymous No.19708154]

>>19699856
you just learn it bit by bit and it's super easy

[Anonymous No.19708160]

>>19703886
There is no such thing as "Ecclesiastical Latin"; it's just mispronouncing Latin using the phonology of whatever your first language. A Spaniard and an Englishmen would mispronounce it in two different ways.

You might be thinking of Medieval Latin, which is actually based on, guess what, the actual fucking way that Latin is pronounced.

[Anonymous No.19708176]

>>19704056
There's literally nothing wrong with any of that. No native English speaker has any problem with reading Shakespeare's sonnets with present day pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.19708187]

>>19708176
Shakespeare is not Old English you fucking moron, it's not even fucking Middle English, it's Early Modern English.

Old English is like Beowulf. You're only off by 600 years retard. Never post in a linguistic/language study thread again you fucking chimp.

[Anonymous No.19708192]

>>19708187
>Shakespeare is not Old English you fucking moron
Where did I ever say that?

[Anonymous No.19708202]

>>19708192
You were responding to a post saying he wouldn't use modern English pronunciation on Old English
see>>19704056
and then here >>19708176
you said people can understand Shakespeare

[Anonymous No.19708214]

For a real chart look at wiktionary for any verb in its present active indicative first person singular form, like amo or volo.

It's not that bad. Writing in Latin is very doable. Knowing the forms is a lot less of a problem than knowing how to use them correctly, the rules for subordinate tenses and various constructions. The REAL hurdle comes after that, when you actually have to use Latin elegantly, with informal but common expressions.

Greek is worse:
https://humanities-web.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/classics/prod/2021-01/luw.pdf
https://dcc.dickinson.edu/homer-iliad/intro/paradigms-%CE%BB%CF%8D%CF%89

But it's not that bad. I could write a full wiktionary style paradigm of any ordinary Latin verb from memory, after a year or two of not doing Latin. With maybe one or two mistakes on things I was always rusty about. It just burns into your memory eventually.

Keep in mind not all conjugations are made of the same stuff. Some forms will be rarer than others. And a lot of the time you can infer from context even if you're fuzzy on the exact form. But there's a reason this is a scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lczHvB3Y9s

[Anonymous No.19708297]

Learning conjugations/declensions like this is absolutely the most misguided (and sometimes counter-productive) way you can approach the early stages of learning any inflected language.

After you have the vaguest sense of the grammar, start actually reading in Latin (Lingua Latina per se Illustrata, Latin via Ovid, etc). After a few months, when you start to have an inherent feel for the language, only then start drilling hard grammar. And simultaneous with your passive reading, use Anki to learn the most common 2-3000 words.

It helps very little to have grammar charts bouncing around in your head before you have any deep sense of how they are used, which only comes from direct exposure to the language. Your ability to read will only rarely be impacted by an incomplete knowledge of grammatical forms (but will, of course, limit your ability to produce anything in the language), and you will be learning it implicitly through exposure. Production can largely wait the first 3 months while you're feeling out a language. It tends to be a frustrating timesink that initially yields inferior results, at least for the first 6 months or so.

And the last thing is that when you start learning a language, you cannot ever skip a day. You have to do the flashcards every day, and you absolutely have to read/listen/watch something every day, especially in those early days when it's most difficult.

You just simply have to make 25 minutes a day to do this stuff, or you will make any real progress. Ideally you should devote at least an hour, but you absolutely must get that 25 minutes in every day.

t. native English speaker, have learned Russian to C1 level (confirmed via exam), and have reading fluency in ancient Greek, and a lesser knowledge of Latin.

[Anonymous No.19709322]

>>19706075
Anglų, rusų, ir nedauk ispanų.
Aš ne gimiau sovietų laiku, tai ne mokino mane rusų iš anksto. Išmokau nes buvau su rusė :^)
Dabar esu su ispanė.

Pussy is the best motivator to learn a language

[Anonymous No.19709416]

>>19699856
Same way you learn anything else in a language. It's just affixes that do grammar stuff that have at some point merged. There are enough patterns to it that native speakers effortlessly apply it to new words. Which means you can too. And enough patterns that native speakers later may level the inconsistencies to bring them in line or non-natives may do this accidentally. The reason past people couldn't level them may be conservatism, phonological restrictions that later do not apply, or simply being closer in time to the change that produced it.

[Anonymous No.19709447]

>>19708176
>From fairest creatures we desire increase,
>That thereby beauty’s rose might never die,
>But, as the riper should by time decease,
>His tender heir might bear his memory.
>die
>memory
>no problem reading Shakespeare's sonnets with a modern English pronunciation
Kys retarded burger