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/lit/ - Literature

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19646382 No.19646382[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is Plato the greatest genius ever?

>> No.19646386

>>19646382
After Homer

>> No.19646402

No, not even close.

>> No.19646410

>>19646382
No.

InB4 the Goon

>> No.19646417

>>19646382
Yes. Only soibois and bugmen will disagree.

>> No.19646472

>>19646382
The real redpill is that Plato never gave up his dream of being a poet, and his dialogues surpass even the works of the tragedians in literary depth. They are only comparable to Homer. If Quandt could translate them all I would quit my job and do nothing else but read Plato

>> No.19646479

>>19646382
no, it's me

>> No.19646565

>>19646472
>The real redpill is that Plato never gave up his dream of being a poet,
His love-hate relationship with poetry definitely seeps into his philosophy a bit too much

>> No.19646652

Biggest genius in history is probably Newton followed by some of the mathematic gigabrains like Euler, Gauss etc.
I think even amongst the greeks Aristoteles beats plato in the raw genius, the guy pretty much set the foundation of philosophy and every latter system builder pretty much started with his foundation.

>> No.19646666

>>19646382
looks like a midwit
wrote like a midwit

i'm thinking he was a midwit

>> No.19647423

>>19646565
Hah yes he has a similar relationship to Homer as Tolstoy had to Shakespeare: obvious influence, nearest intellectual equal, and therefore most dire target of their criticisms

>> No.19647437

>>19646472
This.

>>19646565
That was only the Republic. Late-Plato fully reabsorbs the importance of poetry.

>> No.19647447
File: 2.74 MB, 1286x2823, philosophy iceberg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19647447

>>19646382

>> No.19647459

>>19646652
>genius is a technical term and has nothing to do with the importance of the achievement

>>19647423
Not really, he praises Homer to degrees beyond Anglos praising Shakespeare. The Republic must be treated as an entity unto itself in his oeuvre.

>> No.19647460
File: 50 KB, 500x484, youve-been-visited-by-the-good-sleep-greek-you-will-1144995.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19647460

yes

>> No.19647465

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19647499

>>19647437
>>19647459
It's not just the republic it's all his life

>> No.19647833

>>19646382
Within philosophy it is, without a doubt it is. Both Socrates and Aristotle are his creations, as soon as you discover this you realize what kind of person Plato was. Even leaving philosophy and entering other areas Plato is still incredible; for example in poetry the representative of Platonism was Dante and many literary critics consider Dante as the best poet in history, even better than other incredible poets such as Shakespeare, Goethe and Homer. In science too, you just have to see the representatives of Platonism within modern science like Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo.

>> No.19647836

>>19646666
filtered devil

>> No.19648107

>>19646382
Plato was surpassed and completed by Ibn Arabi, aka Ibn Aflatun.

>> No.19648226

>>19647460
sleep tight plato

>> No.19648242

>>19648107
Explain?

>> No.19648254

It's kinda funny how he writes Socrates taking time to ramble about fucking odd and even numbers and shit in the final seconds before he dies, did that actually happen or did Plato invent it

>> No.19648265

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19648268

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19648288

>>19647460
Sleep tight Plato

>> No.19648296

>>19647460
Sleep tight Plato

>> No.19648325

>>19646472
What nice things has he said bout poetics? I know, in Republic, he’s okay with certain subject matters in poetry but not others. Is he more forgiving towards those subject matters in other works?

>> No.19648419

>>19646382
Aurelius is the greatest person ever lived.

This guy literally created the most based religion on earth.

Aurelius pretty much says
>there is god
>there is karma
>there is some kind of ying-yang
BUT
and that's the most amazing part. Not only has he created a religion that is pretty much all three Semite religions, Buddhism, Hinduism (good day sirs), and Shintoism combined, he change one important element, that makes Aurelius' religion unattackable.
Of course he never called his "Meditations" a religion, but it is a real religion with one important difference to all other religion (and no, Aurelius even said it isn't stoicism)
>Find happiness inside you and not outside

While Aurelius said a lot, his genius was that your whole world is centered inside you and no one can tough it.

The best part about Aurelius is that he never says you shouldn't defend yourself or forgive your enemy. Aurelius simply says that no matter what you do, you have to find peace on the inside and not the outside.
If someone attacks you, you can kill him. You can kill your enemy. The only difference Aurelius mad to any other religion or philosopher is how your inside is the only important part. While most philosophers and religions try to cope with the world or deal with suffering, Aurelius has the BASED "Not my problem" worldview before it was a meme.

>> No.19648487

>>19648419
Now imagine if we had Hadrian's diary

>> No.19648710

>>19646382
ive never read plato. where should i start? is there an order to read the dialogues?

>> No.19648759

>>19646382
I've never read it, but if it looks like that pic, then Plato was sexy af and the most attractive of the greeks

>> No.19648833

Everybody reverts back to forms eventually. It's impossible to hold convictions without them

>> No.19648962

>>19648710
>>19648759
The republic

>> No.19649214

>>19646382
Kant was an even bigger genius, but Plato was iconic

>>19647460
Sleep tight Plato

>> No.19649224

>>19648254
Well by his own account, Plato wasn't at Socrates suicide

>> No.19649255

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19649277

>>19646382
Yes, if you consider how he convinced you to get carried away by words and ignore the real world around you.
He was a plant. A tool of the oligarchy at the time.

>> No.19650023

>>19647499
No it's not, if you'd actually read more than the Republic like the Cratylus and Phaedrus you'd know this.

>> No.19650040

>>19646382
No, Leo Strauss was.

>> No.19650138

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19650158

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19650159

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19650166

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19650173

>>19647460
Sleep tight Plato

Hoping this works for my chronic insomnia.

>> No.19650182

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19650187

>>19648419
>entire post about Epicurus
>"no! it's actually Aurelius"
stoic fags miss the point entirely, suffering willingly is a self-flaggelating masculine whim

>> No.19650234

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19650243

>>19646382
No, he was a creepy Fascist anyway. I kind of regret propping him up so much as my ideal.

>> No.19650244

>>19648419
he wrote his diary as a cope for his dying empire, just take a look at how his son ended up

>> No.19650371

>>19647460
sleep tight plato

>> No.19650385

>>19646382
As a philosopher, I may agree although I've read more Aristotle as of now. I'd argue that the greatest genius ever was Isaac Newton in a scientific context since he invented integral calculus.

>> No.19650445

Plato is the most correct, smartest and most important person of the 4th century BC. There was no smarter, deeper, clearer, absolute Plato and probably could not be. It is no coincidence that a Athenian philosopher in one collection dedicated to Plato compared Plato with Protagoras. It would seem that there are completely different, opposite figures. Plato is a conservative hyper-traditionalist. Protagoras is a revolutionary innovator, a radical overthrower of traditions. But Aristoteles rightly guessed the revolutionary message of each of Plato's statements, the extreme, cruel noncomformity of his position, which turns everything and everything upside down, the radical nature of his thought.

The fact is that Plato is the only author, the only thinker of the 4th century, and maybe many, many centuries before that, who not only identified and confronted with each other secondary language paradigms, but also put into question the very essence of language. The language of sophism was methodologically very interesting, subtly reducing the historical existence of mankind to a clear and convincing formula for confronting opinion and belief. Being a great paradigmatic success, sophism was so popular and won the minds of the best intellectuals of the 4th century. But Plato is an even more fundamental generalization, an even more radical removal of masks, an even broader worldview contestation, putting everything into question.

- Plotinus

Plato undermined and then; with uncompromising intellectual rigour, demolished all the assumptions taken for granted by Hellenic man, that is to say Western or westernised man. Many others had been critical of the direction taken by European civilization since the so-called 'bronze age', but none had dared to be as radical as he was or to re-assert with such force the principles and values which Hellenic culture had consigned to the rubbish tip of history. His theme was the 'primordial tradition' or Philo Sophia, expressed-so he maintained-both in ancient mythologies and in the metaphysical doctrine at the root of the great religions. The language of this Philosophy was the language of symbolism, and he had no equal in his interpretation of this symbolism. Moreover he turned the idea of human progress upside down, replacing it with the belief almost universal before Athenian democracy, that humanity declines in spiritual excellence with the passage of time and that we are now in the democratic age which precedes the tyrannical age, an age in which all the possibilities rejected by earlier cultures have been spewed out into the world, quantity replaces quality and decadence approaches its final limit. No one who read him and understood him could ever be quite the same again.

- Gai Eaton

>> No.19650453

>>19647460
sleep tight plato

>> No.19650488

>>19650023
>t. read 5 dialogues

>> No.19650532

>>19650244
Empire wasn’t dying during his reign, things were mostly stable and really that was the goal. Commodus did fuck everything up though and it’s seriously unfortunate how badly his son has tarnished his legacy

>> No.19651125

>>19650445
kek

>> No.19651243

>>19646666
realism is literally the opposite of midwittery.
it's coming full circle, having explored the depth of philosophy, and embracing the same obvious truths any shitwit or child would instinctively know. it's a nice example of the horseshoe theorem. it's a huge fuck off to all midwits, from the eleatics to the moderns.
Midwit is Parmenides, midwit is Hume. All these faggots who would have us believe life is a differential equations, good and evil are constructions and such. Teenage tier philosophy. Pathetic.

>> No.19651264

>>19650488
What the fuck are you talking about the Phaedrus and Cratylus aren't in the Five Dialogues?

>> No.19651283

>>19647460
Sleep tight Plato

>> No.19651286

The theory of forms signifies a major jump in human development. the Egyptians, Babylonians, etc. were closer to cavemen than they were to him.

>> No.19651300

>>19651243
What about Kant?

>> No.19651304

>>19651286
too bad SCIENCE disproved that then :-)

>> No.19651311

>>19646565
I dont remember him being against poetry in of itself, just some themes which could potentionally impact the citizens in a negative way, as all art can

>> No.19651331

>>19651300
midwit as well
basically you're either a realist of some sort, or a midwit. your realism may be self conscious or not. on the other hand your midwittery may go by different names- idealism, nominalism, conceptualism, they all lead to the one true form of midwittery, eliminativism

>> No.19651338

wrote self conscious, meant self aware, sorry
I'm something of a shitwit myself, but thank God I'm no middie

>> No.19651554

>>19651304
Science disproved the existence of universals?

>> No.19651601

>>19651311
He did in Ion and also before dying he tried to write poetry

>> No.19651611

>>19651331
>midwit as well
Kant was against idealism retard

>> No.19651618

>>19647460
sleep tight plato

>> No.19651783

>>19651331
>midwit means things I don't like
the true midwit take

>> No.19652045

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19652155
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19652155

>>19647460
sleep tight Plato

>> No.19652570

>>19651304
>SCIENCE bro!!!!1!1!1
Bad b8 m8

>> No.19652676

>>19648254
It's as historical as, say, the Gorgias, which takes place around 430 b.c.e. when Gorgias made his big trip to Athens, and then proceeds to bring up events from 430 to Socrates' trial in chronological order.

So probably not at all.

>> No.19652793

>>19648325
He says nice things about poetry and Homer IN the Republic. Poetry never gets banned wholesale, just certain forms, and only under certain conditions, and the banned forms are still paid heavy compliments. The argument of the Republic isn't "poetry is bad", but that the requirement to seek a perfectly just city necessitates concern over what promotes justice and injustice.