/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19609743]

What are the best books on Psychoanalysis? Who are the recommended authors? I'm interested in the subject of Psychoanalysis yet know little

[Anonymous No.19609752]

>>19609743
>Psychoanalysis
Bourgeois pseudoscience

[Anonymous No.19609786]

Good question. I've read Jung essays and started the archetype and the collective unconscious, but those are concepts, ideas. I want to know how a session is dealt in real life.

[Anonymous No.19609804]

>>19609743
Please read chapter 4 of "Culture of Critique" as an introduction first before you study psychoanalysis.

[Anonymous No.19609813]

>>19609804
I may end up to MacDonald's critique in the end but I would like to make up my own mind beforehand

[Anonymous No.19609848]

>>19609752
This. It's essentially an advanced form of cold reading - commonly employed in fortune-teller scams, that establishes authority via professionalism and then gaslights you into believing that inherent jewish degeneracy is somehow part of your psyche. What an absolute joke!

>Trust me bro, I'm a profeshuuuANAL
>Bro you totally want to fuck your mom bro
>Bro don't hide it, why are you hiding it bro, I already told you that you instinctively fear death and want to fuck a lot bro, therefore I must be right about everything else too bro
>Bro I'm totally like not emotionally invested into this sex thing bro, it's not even coming from me bro, it's like totally coming for your psyche bro

[Anonymous No.19610124]

>>19609743

[Anonymous No.19611265]

>>19609743
Psychoanalysis has been debunked.

[Anonymous No.19612276]

>>19611265
>>19609848
This is dumb. It's like saying you've "debunked" gravity because its a kind of theory that can't be definitely proven. Freud said, very simply, that animals are reproductive machines running off a little code that constantly repeats itself and is attempting to reproduce itself, and this pattern of repetition can be tracked through the typical reproductive cycle that an animal goes through including time spent nurturing (if applicable). Since Humans spend many, many years being nurtured they have developed extraordinarily unique social circumstances, and have complex mating rituals and vast social structures associated with them. At even a more basic level, Humans are encoded with later behaviors in the nurturing stage, so a baby feeds on breastmilk as a youth--as an adult, he finds women's breasts attractive and enjoys sucking on nipples. Likewise, Humans feel sexual arousal from cuddling, the same kind of cuddling that their parents did for them as babies. So Freud's basic theory, that our sexual behaviors are grounded in--and simple repetitions of--behaviors performed as youths is demonstrably true given a variety of examples, and the fact that people are searching for partners who give them the same kinds of comforts their parents did equally so. It's not that you want to "fuck your mom"; or even that you consciously desire a mate who would be good at raising children. Unconsciously, you desire such characteristics because you are attached to those behaviors that you yourself were raised on, and when you reproduce those behaviors likewise reproduce--the so-called "oedipal complex" just represents a successful reproductive strategy.

[Anonymous No.19612308]

>>19609743
Unironically Freud because he is the easiest to read and is legitimately the most "scientific" of all the psychoanalysts (he was, after all, a neurologist). The Interpretation of Dreams is good since it's an earlier work and you can follow his logic as he develops it, but it's also his longest work. Zizek's lectures, especially The Pervert's Guide to Ideology, is probably the second best place to start; its far more accessible, but you'll be put all the way on the other side of things, that is, a place where psychoanalytic theory has developed to.

[Anonymous No.19612870]

>>19612276
My main problem with this is the presupposition that I have an unconscious at all, not to mention that it is the expert that will give me access to it.

[Anonymous No.19613892]

>>19612870
its not really something you "have"; but besides its the strongest part of his theory scientifically speaking, which is the only thing Freudians care about since Freud's is an entirely physical theory of consciousness. The "Unconscious" is just the part of your brain/mental operation you can't consciously access, which includes the vast majority of memories, the production of dreams (remember, there's no spiritual valence in Freud, so dreams for him are explicable entirely physically). I mean you can assert you don't have an unconscious, but it would be the same as asserting you can control which dreams you have at night with precision, or that you can access every lived experience you've ever had in any waking state. And things like instincts are included as well, like sexual arousal. If people could consciously control their sexual arousal then boner pills and lube wouldn't exist lol.

And the expert doesn't give you access to it; like on a Rorschach test, the thing the analyst is looking for is not whether you make the "correct" interpretation, they are reading the interpretation you yourself are making on your own and seeing the connections you draw.

[Anonymous No.19613941]

>>19612276
>>19613892

Human nature is not mono or.bimorphic and our minds emerged out of natural selection with a statistically liable "route" towards reproducing (as well as surviving). In the same way hunger doesnt coextend with and shape the personality sexuality does not either. It is possible that it can, or does to some degree, but Freudian ideas are generally cringe and ridiculous and overstate the power of sex over the personality. There is no "sex-soul" or "sex/violence soul". Not the mention the childishness of global American culture and its emphasis on sensual hedonism and never growing up. Which is why psychoanalysis even exists today.

Just read Nietzsche and Schope, and read real biology and the small amount of real evo psychology if you want the same thing as Freud but better and more accurate.

And Freud was just kidding. Paintings his hated Germans as pic related just for laughs

[Anonymous No.19613981]

Gravity's Rainbow

[Anonymous No.19613995]

>>19609743
That would be Brentano's Psychology from an Empirical Standpoint, Freud's teacher, who tried to get him to see why Freud' entire theory was contradictory by principle.

[Anonymous No.19614000]

>>19609743
Read Civilization and its Discontents to get a summary of his thinking.

>>19613941
It's funny because a lot of the time Freud reads like Nietzsche or Schopenhauer

[Anonymous No.19614011]

>>19613941
>in the same way hunger doesnt coextend with and shape the personality sexuality does not either
I'd like to agree with you, except that since Freud's was an entirely physical theory, Freud saw that (and this is demonstrated with Modern genetics) the most basic aspect of life was a code that operated principally on its own reproduction, with other behaviors being side effects of that--even behaviors like autoimmune disorders and cancer (which are very similar conceptually to mental disorders in the Freudian model). Hunger and Sexuality are both drives but they are also both drives to reproduce--the first, simply the cells in the body, the second the entire organism itself. You could even argue that there is essentially no difference between the body constantly regenerating itself and generating a new body, given how its nearly the same process sans mixing of the chromosomes.

>overstate the power of sex over the personality
see above, "sex" is entirely scientific for Freud, it is not invested with the cultural power that you are giving it ("...global American culture and its emphasis on sensual hedonism...") and he tried to view it with as detached a view as possible; which was obviously difficult given how emotionally invested people are in sex and relationships; but again, see above.

[Anonymous No.19614037]

>>19612276
Freud is pretty consistently proven wrong by anthropology, his idea of the primordial family being a complete fabrication and it’s hard to trust someone who seems to consistently make up their theories with little or no empirical grounding

[Anonymous No.19614052]

>>19609743
The Elephant in the Brain. Most human behavior can be boiled down to signaling.

[Anonymous No.19614103]

how do you deny
>libido
>unconscious
>id-ego-superego

anyone who thinks Freud was refuted because of some petty >>19614037 arguments like this just hasn't read Freud.

[Anonymous No.19614133]

>>19613941
>Freudian ideas are generally cringe and ridiculous
It's puzzling to me how zoomzooms can fail to understand that arguing like this undermines their entire point...

[Anonymous No.19614171]

>>19614052
signalling and self-interest

[Anonymous No.19614240]

>>19614011
What Freud brought to the discussion is essentially epigenetics. I'm going to use language very carefully to express the intent behind it, autists beware. He supposed what are essentially predispositions towards generational curses, personalities susceptible to the symptoms of deeply ingrained maladaptive family dynamics. An explicit expression of neuroticism is not only a predisposition towards anxiety and perseverance, but also the script which it follows. Later treatments frame such as life scripts or any modality through which one describes the mechanisms of disorders of the self. It also supposes that your genetic predisposition mentioned is in part a result of this. Stress causes cancer, or rather fucks with the immune response. That which contributes towards a lack of sleep is the cause of physical ailments pertaining to sleep. He was in fact a doctor and essentially laid the groundwork for psychophysiology that has been ignored until very recently.

[Anonymous No.19614272]

>>19614052
The elephant in Robin Hanson's brain is that he wants to fuck children

[Anonymous No.19614402]

Completely worthless thread so far, as always.
OP, read Freud's Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis for an overview of his views.
Also read Freud and Beyond by Mitchell for an overview of post-Freudian psychoanalysis.
If you're interested in Jung, who isn't a psychoanalyst, you'll have to ask elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.19614471]

>>19614103
>>unconscious
What is the value of an unrepresented representation?

[Anonymous No.19614560]

The analyst never interprets himself, he does not hold any more knowledge about yourself than you do, he simply guides you through verbalization, like a mirror would do, that's the point of it, at least on clinical practice

[Anonymous No.19614714]

>>19609804

Well, I'm definitely reading it now.

[Anonymous No.19614722]

>>19614037
>>19613995
>>19613941

What you retards fail to understand ist that at the end of the day Psychoanalysis works just as well as modern scientific therapeutic approaches in treating mental disorders, so nobody gives a fuck whether Freuds ideas are scientific by todays standard or not.

[Anonymous No.19614946]

>>19614560
>The analyst never interprets himself
Undergoing a full 4x/week analysis is required to graduate from all psychoanalytic training institutions. Most analysts stay in analysis for further periods of time and all conduct self-analysis. All analysts internally interpret their counter-transference reactions throughout a treatment and some occasionally interpret them directly to the patient if indicated.

[Anonymous No.19616004]

>>19614037
Freud was arguing that the "primordial family" is an example of a successful reproductive strategy that repeats over time because it manages to constantly re-adapt to new circumstances, but neither ultimate nor all encompassing, as there are many, many variations on family relations and incest taboos throughout world cultures (which Freud was keenly aware of, given how his whole practice was centered around understanding the unique family history of every individual under his treatment).

[Anonymous No.19616026]

>>19614722
Even if it's a critique of Freud I would still recommend Brentano for someone interested in the foundations of Psychoanalysis...

[Anonymous No.19616473]

>>19609752
dumb
>>19609743
Check out Glen. O. Gabbard books, they are available on libgen and taught me some basic concepts.