/wg/ Write General

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/wg/ Write General Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:08:46 2021 No.19603424 [Reply] [Original]

Weeb Waterfall edition
Previous thread >>19588596

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction -- Gardner
>The Anatomy of Story -- Truby
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges
>Links: https://pastebin.com/i4RLYJEx

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-form

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:11:54 2021 No.19603441 File: 23 KB, 512x388, 11EDF339-AFFB-4BAF-9430-82366F0FA4DA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What is the most NPC literary technique?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:15:11 2021 No.19603459 >>19603441 Outlining

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:17:06 2021 No.19603473 >>19603424 Steering the Craft paled in comparison to The Art of Fiction. The author repeats herself over and over again instead of rising up new points. A book this short is not worth getting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:18:43 2021 No.19603481 Someone post their writing so we can say its bad and watch them have a literal mental breakdown

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:20:29 2021 No.19603493 >>19603481 I'd love to but my language barrier prevents me from doing so. I'll write something original just for you guys though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:20:52 2021 No.19603495 >>19603493 looking forward to it

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:22:42 2021 No.19603503 >>19601650 >Did 2500 words today >Good god man what did you eat to shit out that much alphabet soup? If you got off 4chan and actually wrote, you, too, could break 2k a day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:24:13 2021 No.19603515 >>19603503 I did 1k a day. Stephen King does 2k a day and SK is an obnoxious twitter lefty and also on cocaine so i figured 1k would be a good compromise.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:24:40 2021 No.19603520 >>19603503 It's a matter of personal preference, Hemingway only did like 500

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:30:12 2021 No.19603556

Focusing on word count has to be a big mistake for writers. "Just write 2k a day and you'll make it!"

No: you need to establish a structure for how you write. Turn writing into a habit. As you master this you'll see your word count rise in an organic fashion alongside your craft's rise in complexity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:32:28 2021 No.19603566 >>19603556 shut up, idiot

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:32:38 2021 No.19603567 >>19603441 Not outlining. Your plotless story isnt good.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:32:44 2021 No.19603569 >>19603556 In other words, your word count is a benchmark for your progress. Congratulations you figured it out, anon you fuckin genius you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:33:39 2021 No.19603576 >>19603481 You going to actually read it this time?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:34:55 2021 No.19603587 >>19603576 It should easy to figure out which one's yours by counting how many sentences start with he or she.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:35:30 2021 No.19603592

>>19603520
>>19603515
Idk, for me it's either all or nothing. Some periods I write nothing at all. then for a few months I put out 2k+ words a day. there was one day I did 5k. If I'm in a writing period, I want to do nothing except write. I get 3 hours less sleep a night than normal the entire time and can't be removed from my keyboard. I'll even dream about the draft. Then when I finish something I have a rest period until I figure out the next story I want to write.

By rest period, I mean mostly reading, or editing. Editing periods are more healthy. Only maybe 2-3 hours a day. I feel like strictly doing the same thing every day is treating it like a dayjob where you clock hours.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:37:39 2021 No.19603603 >>19603566 Then stop screeching about word count and discuss something worthwhile.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:37:53 2021 No.19603606 >>19603592 It doesn't matter anyway. We're all just silly children playing pretend. None of us are going to get tradpubbed and the only thing that we'll leave behind is a shitty vanity press printing with an MS Paint cover.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:38:59 2021 No.19603613

Jesus Freak

I remember when I heard that Jesus is always watching us. Jesus is God, he has to make sure we’re not doing bad stuff. So when you sin, Jesus is there looking at you, judging you. When you’re fucking someone, Jesus is watching you both from afar, from outside the house, looking at you from the window. He knows you’re sinning, that you’re drowning in lustful pleasure, but he can’t do anything at all. He just watches, Jesus is the greatest peeping tom of all.
From the moment these thoughts came to me, masturbation became way more fun knowing that Jesus was right there in the room beside me watching me stroking my cock. I would imagine Jesus half naked, like those old paintings of him nailed at the cross. Strangely it would turn me on, Jesus watching me, the disapproval in his face. But in my fantasies I would see the contempt of God turning into lust. “Stroke, don’t stop”. He would grow to like it, encouraging me to reach my climax.
I then began going to church. Going to Bible studies meetings. I love Jesus now, he’s always taking good care of me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:39:05 2021 No.19603615 >>19603603 we could if you'd go away. there's so much good discussion that happens when you're not here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:39:37 2021 No.19603618 People who insult the 2k-a-day master race are just losers who don't even write regularly. They sit on a half finished manuscript just so they can proclaim themselves as a writer

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:39:37 2021 No.19603619 File: 918 KB, 891x1300, 9870987098.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19603606 wagmi

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:39:39 2021 No.19603621

>>19603495
The wind blows from the east
From Siberian wastes where the gulags once had their feast
A cold wind, it chills to the bone like the chill of death
Death remembered from times past, now buried in the earth

I pop my collars, hunch my shoulders, even down to my heart I’m cold
Only part is the wind, the rest is a love so old
A one-sided affair, now remembered only to me
I guess me and her were never meant to be

There is a bench of wood, wet from sleet
I sit there to rest my feet
In a pond there are ducks
Though a hardy breed, their winter still sucks

Old ladies feed the ducks bread
Without it the poor things would be surely dead
But birds have wings, so why not fly south?
Their quacks sound like laughter, a curse leaves my mouth

I leave the ducks and follow their river
Once again the damn wind makes me shiver
I should be indoors, already hard at work
Instead outdoors I continue to lurk

I pass familiar places, places I have been
In these places many a funny thing I have seen
Friends I have known, and with them laughed in these woods and that field
Yet now they’re all parking lots, I can’t even use tree trunks for a shield

Why do I wander so, when today is a work day?
Why must I avoid people and be away?
It’s the sandman, he hates my guts
He gave me a dream that reminded me that cupid’s arrow still out from my chest juts

Oh woman, you unbearable creature!
Why must my dreams your fine figure feature?
It’s been nigh on nine years since last we met
And yet you still make my dreams wet

I was yellow, I lacked courage to speak
Indeed, the very sight of you made my knees weak
Of course, I had good cause to feel fear
You gave a black eye to the last man who dared come too near

Whenever I remember you, I’m both more and less
Though whether you ever remember me, I’d rather not guess
The snow falls on me, snot runs out my nose
With a frozen beard, I fear the wrong path I chose

I hurry on to work, to while away my time
After all, I am still a man in my prime
We all wear masks here, for we fear the flu
If I saw you again, you’d wear one too

Could I recognize you through one after so long?
I’m sure you wouldn’t know me even if I sang you a song
But of course be down meet, I’m such a clown
It’s been years since you moved out of town!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:40:07 2021 No.19603625 >>19603613 Nice

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:42:30 2021 No.19603640 >>19603621 >be down we won't *

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:46:37 2021 No.19603665 >>19603621 I mapped out the rhyme structure of this AABC AABB (x9) death and earth don't rhyme. Is that intentional or did you just fuck up? cause the rest follows the same pattern

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:47:14 2021 No.19603667 >>19603587 ok, I'll post more. Sec. https://pastebin.com/mgjPEE9w Read it before criticizing this time. Trust me, it's obvious when you don't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:48:08 2021 No.19603672 >>19603667 i think the characters are stupid and your prose is obnoxious

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:49:48 2021 No.19603679 >>19603665 I told you about the language barrier. They looked the same to me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:52:19 2021 No.19603691 >>19603679 It's really odd that you can write so comprehensively but also think that words rhyme because they kinda look the same

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:54:06 2021 No.19603695 >>19603691 In my native language that's how it works. If the words have the same letters, they read the same. I think fucking up only one rhyme is pretty good.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:55:18 2021 No.19603709 >>19603695 You gotta remember that English is that made-up future-speak where all the languages are smushed together and nothing makes sense.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:56:38 2021 No.19603714

>>19603621
too physical and literal. listen to (good) song lyrics and hear how they obfuscate what they're saying with poetic phrasing, yet there is still a clear story and theme. the approach to the subject should be with light implication of it, not directly stating it. some of the words are also too repetitive

translation though so no problem fren. i see you like gulag archipelago. are you russian?
>>19603709
pretty much. english is a mutt language, which is why the phoenetics dont correlate to spelling.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 12:57:29 2021 No.19603719 >>19603714 > i see you like gulag archipelago. are you russian? No I just read it recently

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:00:06 2021 No.19603730 >>19603714 i prefer physical and literal over emotional and metaphorical.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:02:11 2021 No.19603744

>>19603481
How about this shit poem I wrote hungover today:

Today my fish killed me –
With spinning tails and scales with razor ends
The teaming buddies, a swarming school
I felt a fool to have thought them friends
A hysteria of thrashing pulled me under
Choking I splashed and dragged and kicked

Yet just open air could have stopped the slaughter –
They were only alive in the water

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:06:07 2021 No.19603766

>>19603744
>I felt a fool to have thought them friends

I dont like this line, dont ask me to articulate why

>Choking I splashed and dragged and kicked

needs a comma after choking, and chocking, splashing and kicking are all things the narrator is doing, it's odd to have dragged in there because it's something that's happening /to/ him

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:07:09 2021 No.19603773 >>19603667 Utterly bland premise trying to make itself seem important with inane and schizophrenic imagery. The dialogue is utterly pedestrian as well. This could have been something good if only it weren't so totally dull.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:07:39 2021 No.19603776 >>19603766 oops chock-ing lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:11:48 2021 No.19603798 >>19603385 >I'm really hoping that I can find a timeslot that gets some traction. I've tried 4 am, 4 pm, 8pm and now noon. After 11am eastern time all the way to midnight is the window.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:15:14 2021 No.19603812 >>19603766 fair enough

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:16:23 2021 No.19603816 >>19603773 What was the premise? Keep in mind its only a few pages from a (currently) 36k wip second novel in a series.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:20:34 2021 No.19603839 >>19603816 magician girl boy herbs moon The Desolation music-metaphor etc., there's no point articulating further

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:22:10 2021 No.19603848 File: 11 KB, 756x73, firefox_wkdjzKS0aQ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Another thread another rejection

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:24:23 2021 No.19603855

>>19603839
Rate the prose, not your vague impressions of the plot from less than 1/20th of the novel. Its the characters setup in the second book in the series, of course you aren't going to understand the premise.

>>19603848
This is a form rejection.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:25:28 2021 No.19603864 >>19603855 >This is a form rejection. i... never said it wasn't anon...

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:26:09 2021 No.19603868 >>19603864 You were a little uppity in the last threads about getting feedback from your queries when other anon's don't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:26:53 2021 No.19603871 >>19603868 lmao that wasn't me. no one likes an uppity negro

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:27:30 2021 No.19603875 >>19603798 I'm convinced that hour marks are a fool's play, and will publish only at quarter hour marks from now on. I've gotten literally 3 views from this update

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:28:52 2021 No.19603884 >>19603875 Your problem is not that you are fishing at the wrong times, but that you are doing so with a straight, unbarbed hook.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:29:32 2021 No.19603888 How do you turn writing into a habit

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:30:53 2021 No.19603894 >>19603884 We have to work under the assumption that anon's novel is good and it simply isn't reaching the right people. Straying from that mindset will impede finding a solution to their issue.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:31:37 2021 No.19603896 >>19603888 Cocaine hardwires your brain towards enjoying the actions that lead you into consuming cocaine. Write while you snort. Or you could save money and just write.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:31:48 2021 No.19603898 >>19603855 I did rate the prose. I said it was mostly inane but it could've been good if it were applied to some more interesting and focused subject matter.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:32:45 2021 No.19603904

>>19603875
You only put it out an hour and a half ago. Also, you only have 4 chapters with like 10k words. A lot of people on that site will not look at anything with less than a certain number of chapters or words. A large backlog to slog through is a huge plus for the vast majority of them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:34:08 2021 No.19603913 >>19603888 You just do it. Then by doing it you become invested in your story and just doing it will turn into I need to do this because I have this really cool idea I need to put on paper.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:35:31 2021 No.19603919

>>19603855

Any time anyone gives you any feedback you start coping with
"well ur writing is shit anyway!" or
"you didn't even read it" and most recently
"the sample that I shared isn't representative of the entire project!"

your writing is the best ever ur gonna be the next whoever and make billions.
There, pls go away.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:36:15 2021 No.19603922

>>19603888
I've had this habit for as long as I remember, where sometimes my hand will slide into my pants. It's not doing anything in there, it's just gets in my pants. I have to be aware of where my hand is at all times when I'm out in public because I got in trouble a lot when I was a kid. Maybe if they had been honest with me and said I looked like a sex pervert, the trauma would've convinced me to break the habit.
But they didn't do that, so I still have the habit.
Now in recent years I've taken to hiding a minijournal between my shaft and sack. Now when I stick my hand in my pants, I get a reminder to work on my writing. Take one habit and turn it into different one.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:36:36 2021 No.19603926

>>19603898
>mostly inane
Backhanded compliment, thanks anon.

>interesting and focused subject matter.
It's genre. Specifically pastoral horror. Are you too good for genre or something? If you arent the target audience for the work, be an adult and move on.

I'll take your backhanded compliment and keep writing.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:36:39 2021 No.19603927

>>19603904
Yes, but I'm already halfway down page 3 of the Latest Updates, which means of all the people who might click on it, I've pretty much had my shot at it for this update, because as far as I know, the only means of discovery on the site is through latest updates, until I have enough traction to hit trending/best rated, which I'll never do at this point.

Most of my views come from my personal shilling

Sure, every chapter will be more alluring that the last for RR bingers, but that doesn't change the fact that releasing at noon today was a complete dud

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:39:45 2021 No.19603946 >>19603922 Inspiring

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:42:30 2021 No.19603960 >>19603927 I couldn't find specifically what hours the site has the most traffic but there's a lot of interesting data on here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:44:12 2021 No.19603966 >>19603927 >>19603960 oops https://www.similarweb.com/website/royalroad.com/

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:45:46 2021 No.19603972

>>19603919
Bringing up that people aren't actually reading the writing before trolling is cope? I think your definition of coping needs a bit of work. I cant "cope" with their feedback if it isn't actually feedback.

>"well ur writing is shit anyway!"
Never said that. I only asked him to post his writing, as I don't like getting "critiques" from non-creatives looking to crab-in-the-bucket anyone they deem a target.

>the sample that I shared isn't representative of the entire project!
Fair. But it's true. He tried to pass judgment on plot that isn't even developed within the pages.

>your writing is the best ever ur gonna be the next whoever and make billions.
IDGAF about this. I only want legitimate criticism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:49:18 2021 No.19603994 >>19603972 telling you you overuse pronouns during dialogue intensive sections isn't trolling

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:49:19 2021 No.19603995 >>19603972 You call yourself a “creative”? Pshhh ahah HAHAHHAHHAA are you the comic book faggot too?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:50:31 2021 No.19604002

>>19603848
tfw
t. collected about 20 rejections so far on my last ms's query.
when i get a rejection in i like to send out 2 more queries. i try to take it in stride since an agent gets maybe 50-100 queries a day but can only work on maybe 10 projects a year. half of the competition are literal trash from schizos and another quarter are things/genres that particular agent doesn't even take, apparently, but you still have a lot of competition. to some degree you can thank mass-querying assholes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:51:26 2021 No.19604005 >>19603613 Can someone criticize my writing?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:54:46 2021 No.19604020

>>19603994
>dialogue intensive sections
Wow, thanks for finally fucking articulating what you actually mean. This is moving somewhere. Maybe you should have used these words in the first place instead of pretending you read past the first 20 lines, when the dialogue intensive section ends.

Frame your posts constructively and people won't call you out for trolling.

>>19603995
Yes. Are you not one? Do you not put words to page? Why are you in the writing general if you aren't creatively writing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:59:15 2021 No.19604044 >>19604005 Consider fleshing it out into a bizarro story/novel. You'd need a plot, but this is a great cold open.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 13:59:39 2021 No.19604049
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>>19604002
>20 rejections

mass querying asshole here

try 110 rejections.

Though I've been at it for around as many days so it's not like I don't at least make sure they take my genre.

I went through cycles where at first I'd only query people that 100% matched what I was querying, when those ran out my net became wider and wider. Eventually I had to include identity politics shit in my queries to because some agents are really into that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:00:42 2021 No.19604056 >>19604005 I thought it was a shitpost lmao

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:03:00 2021 No.19604065

>>19604020
>Maybe you should have used these words in the first place

I feel like if someone critiques something only applicable the first 20 lines, then you should be able to infer that they stopped reading at that point without having to have it spelled out for you.

Are you a touch acoustic?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:07:38 2021 No.19604083 >>19604065 They made broad-painted statements about the work as if their perceived problems of the first few lines plagued throughout. They never once mentioned dialogue. >Are you a touch acoustic? More piano than guitar. Harpischord, maybe.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:09:15 2021 No.19604093 >>19604083 >broad-painted statements No one is gonna take the time to make sure their critiques are nuanced on fucking 4chan lmao.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:10:22 2021 No.19604097 >>19604005 you should include the fact that the guy is intact. and he derives secret pleasure from jesus - who was circumcised - watching a sinner experience more fleshly pleasure than the incarnation of the jew god ever could.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:12:20 2021 No.19604103 >>19604093 Why not? I specifically asked for critique, not trolling. Does he lack in reading comprehension? Damage to wernicke's maybe? Next time I'll type it in all caps so the drooler can understand.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:13:48 2021 No.19604107 >>19604103 >I specifically asked for critique, not trolling. Trolls are known to not troll people without explicit permission

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:19:42 2021 No.19604135 This is the fastest I've ever seen /wg/

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:20:36 2021 No.19604140

starting 2022 I want to keep a journal and want to write non fiction "journalist style": just picking up a random topic (like why modern medicine is wrong or why an ethnostate might be a good idea) and write something about it.
can you share your best tips about writing essays/non fiction?
>inb4 sticky
I'm yuropoor, English is not my main language and besides I want to hear tips from my /lit/ bros.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:21:36 2021 No.19604146 Is there any reason you guys use Royal Road instead of something like Wattpad where which is like in the double digits in terms of site traffic ranks while RR is in 2kth place?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:23:09 2021 No.19604151 >>19604140 I don't have any tips, but I do wanna say that this sounds like the start of a schizolog

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:24:20 2021 No.19604157 >>19604146 My plan was to get like, 10 chapters up on RR, then go to weekly releaes there, and mass release onto Wattpad to catch up, get it on weekly releases as well, and then look for a third site, and so on

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:25:17 2021 No.19604159 ghostbin.com/lYjLH short story at about 3800 words, want to submit to that passage prize contest or whatever it’s called. Any reads/crits welcome

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:26:08 2021 No.19604164 >>19604146 >Wattpad has terrible discoverability. unfortunately

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:27:09 2021 No.19604168 >>19604049 Jesus dude. What are you querying with and why isn't anyone taking you on?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:28:33 2021 No.19604174
File: 57 KB, 499x750, tango male.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19604020
Here, have all my prose and poesy, from my head to my toes. Let's see why I'm here.
>'That damned cur, that un-creative wretch,' spat Anon with an embittered tone. 'He sues for grace and calls me *sir*, but it only makes me retch.'
He tapped away at his keyboard, infuriated by the presence of shitposting in /wg/, his local watering hole, where he was bound to get all the constructive feedback afforded to all those who post on anime websites, started by men named Christopher "moot" Poole.
>'How dare he! Does he also shit where he eats and pisses where he farts? Alas, it is all so tiresome,' Anon fell back into his chair, sighing. 'Where can an unfound gem such as me, a real unrequited genius, get some fellow maestros and virtuosos to peer into the eddying water of my perfection? It's all I deserve, isn't it?'
Weary, the stalwart 4chan poster reclined further in his ergonomic writing chair, something that only the real serious creatives would have. He opened up pastebin, eyed the number of viewers and then harrumphed:
>'There's so many of them but they don't even read past the thirtieth line. Where's the engagement? Where's the constructive feedback? It takes two to tango, but tonight there's no tango music...'
But that was when lightning was caught in a bottle, as a spark of genius grew into a roaring flame within the many inner sanctums of his labyrinthine mind.
>'Aha! Music!' he yelped and clapped. 'Lights, guitar, drums, violins, flute, piano, bandoneons!'
Suddenly, the room lit up with a stage light and Anon pranced across his writing room, as part of a real tasteful studio apartment near the seaside. Some Uruguayans jumped out of the shadows with musical instruments and began to play; it was electrifying and the static was felt in the air. Anon ripped off his clothing to reveal sable Latin ballroom attire, then jumped from here to there with his antelope-like bounds, clapping all the while.
>'Dance, dance, dance, you untamed spirit!' Anon belted in tenor voice. 'Tango, tango, tango, you are going to kill it!'
The ensemble walked around him, continuing to play, and Anon slid towards the computer (that writing station) once more and tapped on the keyboard with sweating fingertips.
>'I'm Creative. C is for Confident. R is for Regal. E is for Effective. A is for Anon. T is for Torrential. I is for Imaginative. V is for Vexing. E is for Empathetic!' he said. 'Ah no! The CAPTCHA, my worst enemy. We meet again, your letters are so uncomely and I find it hard to make out your horrid shape, O terrible script. But I will make it out now, a-ha! Look! It says CREATE. What a coincidence...'
With that, Anon was readied to compose finally, the final act of his second book, the much awaited and anticipated tome that should send his name into the proverbial stars. But first, he needed something a bit more on the *edge*. Unzipping to the music, he pulled out his cock and came onto the keyboard. That showed the trolls, who died of AIDS.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:30:47 2021 No.19604186

>>19604168

My query has evolved a bunch since I started, the last time I updated it was yesterday. Not to mention the slight changes I make to better appeal to that specific agent.

Even though I don't plan it, it does change over time, which is why I limit myself to just 1 query a day. Shotgunning a bunch in a short time frame will fuck me up since I'll end up sending a hypothetical agent an inferior version of my query letter than if I had waited.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:33:31 2021 No.19604203 >>19604174 bro...

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:37:47 2021 No.19604222 >>19604164 If you're already publishing chapter by chapter on RR, it can't hurt to also update on Wattpad at the same time. The only thing wasted is time and effort.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:38:55 2021 No.19604227

>>19604049
on the bright side, at least you're receiving the rejections. a few years ago it was vogue for agents to never reply unless interested. have you tried stepping back and re-writing your query and/or draft? A previous manuscript I send queries for and stopped after 30, then took 2 years off from it. Now I'm rewriting the draft and it's much improved. Is your story honestly saleable? Is it written to the best standard you're able? you can also try something like queryshark for feedback.
>>19604186
are you the guy with the emo homosexual story?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:42:52 2021 No.19604255

>>19604174
I'll give a good critique, since one wasn't afforded my work.

>Here, have all my prose and poesy, from my head to my toes.

Missed a playful opportunity here. Toesies would have been more flippant and thus more offensive.

The rest is actually superb. Was a joy to read. Some details are a little off, as I don't write on a computer, but hey, creative liberties are cool, especially when presented stylishly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:47:12 2021 No.19604279 >>19604168 This is a normal amount of queries. 80-150 rejections is par for unpublished authors.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:48:17 2021 No.19604287

>>19604227
>have you tried stepping back and re-writing your query and/or draft?

I finished the first draft sometime in February this year and have been editing daily since. To be honest, I feel like editing is something that I can do indefinitely. Every time I go over something I find something I don't like as much as I did when I wrote it or think of an interesting addition.
Although the amount of total words only seems to shift +-2k, there's a massive amount of tiny changes overall.
Did you know that if you make too many edits on a google doc it'll eventually tell you that you can't make any more and have to create a new copy of the document without edit history? I didn't.

And ye the gay Carrie story is mine, I was like YA is gonna be an ezpz genre to break into and it turns out the one thing you can't have in YA right now is a male protagonist. Unfortunately there's a grand total of 2 female characters in my novel and only 1 of them is named (no last name, tho)

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:52:23 2021 No.19604302

>>19604287
>I feel like editing is something that I can do indefinitely
Stop editing and move on to another project if you haven't already.
Take the things you learned and apply them elsewhere to another market if you feel your aim was off with gay YA.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:54:48 2021 No.19604317

>>19604302

I recently finished going over the entire thing and I haven't edited the story in about a week specifically to take a break from editing. I've been putting the time I usually spent on that on writing fake academic articles about government-created telekinetic trannies

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:56:52 2021 No.19604326 >>19604317 That sounds like a good premise for a Bizarro novel/story.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 14:56:58 2021 No.19604327 File: 12 KB, 744x62, firefox_VdMpDKvUOW.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19604279 Speaking of, I just got another one

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:01:04 2021 No.19604340 >>19604327 Was this your first querying MS? I stopped querying with my first after like 50 rejections without feedback. Just move on if querying is killing your love for the hobby of writing.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:01:16 2021 No.19604342
File: 78 KB, 720x480, 1638617797774.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Bros I think I have good ideas for a Burgerpunk novella. But the problem is that I am an ESL with fucked grammar. What should I do? Should I share the idea on /lit/ or force myself to write it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:02:22 2021 No.19604350 >>19604326 https://pastebin.com/E85tsNgu The first 2 lines are from Carrie, the rest I just made up.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:06:25 2021 No.19604368

>>19604340

I feel like it's a game of perseverance at this point. I'm just gonna keep doing 1 query a day until I literally run out of agents to query.
New agents open up to query and old ones close all the time, too.
I know it's kinda fucked but collecting these rejections feels kinda good, like watching numbers increase in an idle game. It's probably maladaptive coping, but whatever keeps the monsters in the closet, you know?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:09:54 2021 No.19604390 >>19604287 there's a difference between line editing and a comprehensive edit. honestly the first novel or two any author writes will be trash. at some point it's best to move on and write something else. >>19604279 christ

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:11:55 2021 No.19604398
File: 57 KB, 714x536, dying.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How often does /wg/ read, and what have you been reading? This month I'm reading one Eudora Welty short story and one Thomas Wolfe poem a day. I take care of both of those when I wake up. Reading Crime & Punishment for my lunchtime novel.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:15:41 2021 No.19604414 File: 137 KB, 1012x658, firefox_Z4zbZt2gy2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19604159 Sorry it took like an entire hour.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:19:09 2021 No.19604437 >list of /wg/ authors pastebin https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ If you want to be on this list then reply to this post with the site you posted your novel on and your pen name.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:22:49 2021 No.19604449 >>19604414 no sweat, I appreciate the edits

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:27:22 2021 No.19604466
File: 485 KB, 720x543, 1549498575844.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19604398
Every day I read about 50 pages of research material and 20 pages of leisure reading if I have time. I read more if I'm not actively writing though.
Wrote 1k words so far this morning.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:27:43 2021 No.19604467

>>19604449

A lot of them are pedantic af, but you used the word "that" 4 times in the first paragraph and "have" 3 times in the third. People usually don't notice the repetition of those type of words, but going unchecked they can bloat your writing unless you make conscious effort to minimize their usage.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:31:27 2021 No.19604484 >>19603812 This guy deserves a medal for being the first one on this board to receive /crit/ without sperging Thanks anon, and may others follow your example

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:36:29 2021 No.19604505 >>19604135 Yeah, it’s all just pronoun-anon…

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:53:42 2021 No.19604550 >>19604398 I've been snaking my way through From the Two Rivers slowly, and some present-tense crime mystery novel lying around. I read chapters of some webnovels I've following there and there as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 15:57:34 2021 No.19604570 >>19604398 Once in a while I'll pick up a book if I think it's worth my time reading and learning from. Otherwise, I'll only read on occasion. Mostly because it's less involved to watch TV shows

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:01:15 2021 No.19604587

Billy DeLoach sat alone in his room and thought about sex. Sex. He had a beautiful girl named Linda who lived next door. Her father owned the hardware store. She wore short skirts and lots of makeup. She looked very pretty. He wondered how far he could push her. He wished he were older. He hoped he wouldn't screw it up. He didn't know anything about girls. What did girls do? How did you start? Did you kiss? He remembered kissing his cousin Sherry last summer. Kissing lips. He hadn't kissed anyone since. He liked the idea of it. He imagined his mouth against hers, moving gently. Then he realized that he was getting hard. He pulled down his pants and stared at himself in the mirror. There wasn't much to look at. Not really. He ran a finger along his cheekbone and touched the pimple below it. It hurt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:06:12 2021 No.19604604 >>19604505 And the three or four people trying to troll me. I'm trying to goad sincerity from a wall of ironic mirth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:09:51 2021 No.19604623 >>19604587 Too many pronouns for /wg/.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:12:19 2021 No.19604630 >>19604623 theres more wrong with that post than just starting every sentence with "he"

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:15:44 2021 No.19604637 >>19604630 Yeah, takes too much brainpower to actually formulate a coherent critique though. So I'll just use the ol' standby.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:16:35 2021 No.19604643 What kind of book sells well in today's market?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:16:40 2021 No.19604645 >>19604630 Oh yeah? Name five other words you can start a sentence with.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:17:15 2021 No.19604647 >>19604643 books with kinky haired black bitches as protags

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:27:38 2021 No.19604686 I can't believe this retard is so buttmad about pronouns. It's been like 5 hours.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:28:10 2021 No.19604687 >>19603922 if true, based but also wear jeans that are the correct size and then you won't be able to?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:33:37 2021 No.19604700 >>19604686 And yet here you are, still replying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:33:52 2021 No.19604702 Okay so now I'm looking at a story, and I used so many pronouns. There's a lot of "Her attention" or "Her attention" or " She pressed" How do I avoid this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:35:30 2021 No.19604712 >>19604702 Attention drifting away from x, she... Pressing... (her breasts on the glass window)

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:35:35 2021 No.19604713 >>19604702 You dont worry about it. It's only a problem for autists thinking they are the next Faulkner without an ounce of proof to back it up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:36:36 2021 No.19604717 >>19604712 That's literally the same number of pronouns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:37:09 2021 No.19604724 >>19604702 Fuck you. Give my story a real critique. So funny with your basic bitch critiques you got a from a YouTube video. I didn't put days into this work to hear this shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:37:19 2021 No.19604729 >>19604717 The point is not to get rid of the pronouns it's to shake up sentence structure so they don't all begin with pronouns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:38:30 2021 No.19604737 >>19604724 what did that anon do to deserve such vitriol?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:39:15 2021 No.19604744

I was cumming some green liquid. This was going on since last week and it really disturbed me. I tried searching on the internet what kind of reason and illness was behind that strange fact, but unfortunately I had no luck. There was simply no explanation for that green slimy cum going out of my penis.
It was maybe on the eight day, when I woke up in the middle of the night covered in sweat. Inside my room there were three small beings, no taller than 3 feet, all looking at me with those puzzled expressions. They told me to follow them, and inside the bathroom they all explained how I wasn't my old self anymore. They had abducted me, messed with my dna and turned me into some kind of hybrid between us humans and their species. The oldest one then suddenly touched my balls and gave the instruction to breed as many human females as possible. Their plan to conquer the Earth was clear. I was the one responsible to bring the end of our civilization by spreading their dna, and when the number of hybrids was high enough we would dominate the pure humans and rule over them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:39:26 2021 No.19604745 >>19604702 Find other subjects. You can describe what is going on by looking at the setting or some other idea. Connect two sentences when appropriate also reduces the need for pronouns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:39:37 2021 No.19604747 >>19604729 But the specific passages posted we are actually referring to didn't all start with pronouns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:40:31 2021 No.19604752 >>19604737 Yeah he was clearly asking for real advice and not just making fun of my story I posted that apparently had "too many pronouns". Fucking retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:40:41 2021 No.19604754 >>19604744 I, me, I, I. Anon... too many.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:40:45 2021 No.19604755 >>19604747 i wouldn't know, i didn't read pronoun-anon's pastebin. I just liked poking fun at him and watching him freak out

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:41:43 2021 No.19604761 Respect my pronouns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:42:41 2021 No.19604764 >>19604755 You should switch up your sentence structure, far too many pronouns. I couldn't make it through your inane post.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:43:31 2021 No.19604769 >>19604764 See?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:43:55 2021 No.19604771 >>19604769 That's better. Thanks, much more readable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:44:09 2021 No.19604772 If you assholes worked on your draft as much as you shitpost on 4chan you might have a finished manuscript by now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:44:34 2021 No.19604777 >>19604752 Dude, the point isn't about the pronouns. The point being made is that the sentence structure is repetitive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:46:11 2021 No.19604784 >>19604772 But I have 3 finished MS already, all this year. Is that not enough for you, anon?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:46:31 2021 No.19604786 >>19604784 It's never enough until you get pubbed

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:46:37 2021 No.19604788 >>19604777 Sure it is asshole. If it was about that you would have said that instead of not reading my excerpt and just saying "lolpronouns" like I didn't spend days writing it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:46:51 2021 No.19604790 >>19604342 Well, do you even want to write it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:47:42 2021 No.19604797 >>19604786 That involves querying. Which is hella gay. No thanks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:48:00 2021 No.19604800 >>19604797 fair enough

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:53:42 2021 No.19604822 When did you realize that you’re never going to be a successful writer, that you don’t have any creativity and that you simply can’t write?

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:54:14 2021 No.19604823

>>19604737
I’m neither the poster or the anon who providing /crit/. Here’s what’s happening:

Pronoun-anon posted this: https://pastebin.com/pQNnS2vu

The reply was the sentence structures were too similar (in particular,
Too many started with a pronoun)

Pronoun-anon got buttmad, defended his usage, called people trolls and jealous.

Imho, the work would read stronger if the author broke up the repetition by scattering proper names throughout the dialog. Just because a character has been introduced once by name doesn’t mean they forever go by he/she.

Im sure I’ll now get a bunch of hate for posting this…

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:54:39 2021 No.19604825 >>19604822 When someone showed me I used too many pronouns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:58:20 2021 No.19604838 >>19604823 I'm the original poster of that pastebin. I've watched about 3 or 4 different anons pretending to be me arguing with each other. It's been entertainingly surreal.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:59:22 2021 No.19604843

Alright, ready for this shit? /lit/ original, off the dome:

No haircut was worth listening to such drivel.
I left the "barber" in a self-righteous stew, examining the cut in windswept car windows and grimacing when the details came out after a few seconds of looking. Thirteen bucks and a tip for this? I looked like one of those hispanic baseball players with the shaved sides and back and muffin-top crowning all, a style sure to repel any upper-tier tail around town. Gray skies weighed upon the streets as I walked home, dismayed and in a haze of misanthropic rage.
The bitch barber and her clientele were all a bunch of fucking degenerates; they mentioned titles like Think and Grow Rich and The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck as though high art began and ended with self-improvement books, and spoke of current events from the viewpoint of provincial morons with weak opinions and sad, sad lives. I pitied them tremendously.
But hate them could I never. They were not bad people; they merely had the natural symptoms of mediocrity, these being weakness, stupidity, and lack of originality. Walking up the drive I could do naught but pity their consecrated souls--for sacred they were. If any in the shop were damned it was I, and I alone; I, with the power to make, to do, to dream, to save, to teach, to soar...and yet powerless for certain, dead in the water and floating there, listless, decaying on the streets like a penniless poet or a wino in the gutter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 16:59:53 2021 No.19604846 >>19604788 I haven't even replied to you until now. I did read your excerpt, and it does suffer from repetitive sentence structure. You're getting trolled.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:02:16 2021 No.19604859 >>19604838 If only you could write a plot twist as engaging

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:02:41 2021 No.19604862 >>19604838 God, I wish this were true…

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:03:16 2021 No.19604864 >>19604859 I highly doubt you can actually plot. You haven't posted any proof to the contrary.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:04:13 2021 No.19604872 >>19604838 This is the most cliché thing you could have done after your freakout backfired.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:04:45 2021 No.19604877 >>19604862 Maybe we're the ones getting trolled after all

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:04:56 2021 No.19604878 >>19604872 ? I'm counting 2 others saying the same things I'm saying. That's 3 of us.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:05:12 2021 No.19604881 >>19604859 Fuck you, untalented piece of trash jive ass fucker. You like putting others down because deep inside you know you’re a talentless son of a whore.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:06:02 2021 No.19604884 >>19604843 >But hate them could I never. But hate them I could never

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:06:10 2021 No.19604885 >>19604881 See. Just needs a little nuance. An attempt at sincerity would go a long way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:07:15 2021 No.19604891 >>19604881 jive?!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:09:16 2021 No.19604904 >>19604872 Backfiring implies that the freakout was to accomplish something beside being ridiculed

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:10:03 2021 No.19604912 >>19604885 I bet you look so terrible and ugly. Did you ever punch someone in the face or are you a weak nerd that can’t even fight?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:10:52 2021 No.19604915 >>19604904 I'm still not understanding how asking for sincere critique instead of bad-faith trolling is being considered a "freakout". Is It the sincerity? Is that offputting or something?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:14:02 2021 No.19604938 >>19604915 They’re so deep inside their own shit and starved for some dopamine induced lolcow freakout that, yes, stuff like asking for legit criticism is seem as funny to their fried brains.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:14:26 2021 No.19604941 >>19604915 You got sincere critique, though.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:19:30 2021 No.19604979

>>19604941
Reading the first few lines and dismissing the rest is not sincere.

I've since metabolized their "critique" and I'm on my way remedying the more egregious pronoun abuse.

Most of my continued posting is railing against trolling. /wg/ could use a wholesome dose of integrity. I DGAF about anonymity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:20:27 2021 No.19604985 >>19604979 >I'm on my way remedying the more egregious pronoun abuse You could have done that without making a fool of yourself

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:24:47 2021 No.19605000

>>19604985
A fool? I got you to clarify what you meant from your initial retarded shitflinging. You can claim whatever you want, but your posts were vague and intentionally hurtful. It wasn't until you said something about dialogue heavy sections that your meaning actually came through.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:26:19 2021 No.19605005 >>19605000 I didnt read ur shitty pastebin

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:26:55 2021 No.19605008 >>19605005 Cool. Then I'm not talking to you. Go away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:27:26 2021 No.19605010 >>19605008 I'm here forever

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:28:32 2021 No.19605018 File: 32 KB, 494x488, 9h12nwk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >this thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:32:43 2021 No.19605031 >>19604838 Fuck you Tewi

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:38:16 2021 No.19605056

How do you actually outline a short story? I started writing a story, and stopped. A few days past and I convinced myself that I should outline it, and then start a new draft of it. Do you guys just define your characters, setting, etc. or do you write like the basic beats of the plot. Any help/tips would be appreciated

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:39:54 2021 No.19605060 >>19605056 I start with a pronoun. Some people have an issue with that.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:46:21 2021 No.19605085

>>19605060
Nigga you still trolling? You killed a thread and a half already, go have fun somewhere else.
>>19605056
I start with an idea or scene I want to write, loosely develop characters in my head, and let it create itself as I write. Then I start drafting and cleaning it up, defining themes and etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:50:36 2021 No.19605100 >>19605056 I deleted my post because I misread yours. Short stories need to be felt more than intellectualized. Outline at your peril.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:51:29 2021 No.19605105 >>19605056 Could you rewrite this question with more pronouns? I'm having difficulty reading it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 17:54:50 2021 No.19605120 >>19605056 Also, I'm a firm believer in the one-sitting short story. (1k-3k range). Purity of vision is key.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:06:00 2021 No.19605162 I wonder what /wg/ would be like with board IDs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:07:30 2021 No.19605170 >>19605162 Better. Is there a way to petition for IDs? Trips are really fucking gay, but almost necessary in generals like these.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:14:18 2021 No.19605206

>>19605170
You should only use trips in places like /qst/. We had them in the Legacy format Magic the Gathering generals that used to be regular on /tg/ and it didn't take long for people to get extremely obnoxious. The good news was if a certain deck "guy" was being particularly bad, he was easy to filter. The rest of us just kept our dicks in our pants.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:17:31 2021 No.19605225 >>19605206 Its a self regulating system. As you say, filtering trips is easy, so normal people have incentive to not be a sperg. I'm aware of the irony in this, but most people don't have the same tendencies as the Ur-tripfag we are all used to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:18:07 2021 No.19605229 >>19605162 But arguing with myself is my favorite pastime

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:31:31 2021 No.19605270 >>19605162 Do mods get to see IPs? This shit must be hilarious for them to read…

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:32:35 2021 No.19605278 >>19605270 jannies aren't allowed to have fun

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:44:24 2021 No.19605326 >>19605162 I actually think /wg/ isn't that bad on a usual night.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 18:47:36 2021 No.19605336

Waiting the mandatory 5 weeks to start editing muh novel, trying out new styles in the meantime. Here's another for anyone bothering.

This isn’t a sob, I ain’t asking for sympathy. Breathing with a stacked bankroll or nothing but the lint in my pockets don’t matter one bit to me. That’s I mind you, the narrator. But we’re more than I in this lovely little dome we’ve forged for ourselves, and its fellow occupants are so dear to me that I’d rip my eyes out and serve them if doing so held some higher purpose benefiting their being here, in this life. Lint provides nothing for them—it does not silent their growling bellies, lull them off to the droomland, construct a springboard for catapulting into whatever life they fancy. They were simply put here, on Earth, through chance or divine will, under the care of me and their mothers, one of which is still the light of my world. One, two, three. These are the mouths I feed. Ilya, Louie, Lone. And theirs are particularly lovely, composing little words and phrases that fill my head with the purest ecstasy. The energy richiest fuel there is. I can soar for days on Ilya’s squeaky lunch box spitting out a waddayamean, forehead wrinkled, eyes burning with that wild questioning fury once mine, before I ran out of questions. He started talking just after turning one, was fluent six months later and everything beyond that has been a mystery. An early talker is a marvel of the universe—a psychedelic mind whose wires are crossed and re-crossed daily holding within it the power to express in real-time its efforts to make sense of all the happenings and makenings exploding all around it like fireworks or mortar shells, depending on its mood. He’s turning three next month. Louie was the same, early walker early talker. Now, having advanced up the ranks to six, she keeps me in check – prods my arguments for logical fallacies, bargain for every inch she can get to further her goals that are yet to be revealed, like a master tactician moving miniature troops along the theater of war. She asks for seven marbles, and I accept—then she asks for three more adding what’s it to you. I’d pin their early linguistic advancements to my own list of accolades if their mothers weren’t both equally rapid yappers, equally fierce, each in their own way. Lone, Ilya’s mother, has this sort of God voice for lack of a better parable. When she hits a certain frequency, you know it’s over and all there is left to do is to bow your head in servitude, accepting the scolding or correction about to be delivered, pass praise and admonition for a sermon benevolently handed down to a lesser man, thanking the invisible hand that guides the lost.

It wasn’t their fault that the translation market crashed overnight. Wasn’t mine either, but that which I had built upon its foundation, the ivory tower in which I’d harbored these people, was of my making.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 19:02:27 2021 No.19605389 >>19605056 >outlining a short story nigger its a short story you should have your premise and just go its just a short story bro

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 20:34:22 2021 No.19605667
File: 13 KB, 480x480, d390d97cfce469e6c550858475374cdb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Back in February, I self-published a Science-Fiction novel. It hasn't sold very well, despite trying to do a lot of marketing stuff for it. Honestly, I don't really understand that part of the industry. But I got feedback from some people at Writer's digest when I submitted it for their self publish book awards. The short version is that it was too depressing and, without even a bittersweet ending, it all feels pointless. What's the purpose of reading it?
I knew I was writing something that wasn't a happy read. I'm still questioning whether I wrote something that was needlessly nihilistic or whether I wrote something that has value amidst its tragedy. But that's not really what I'm wondering. The judges at Writer's Digest contest were authors, agents, people in the publishing industry. Are novels that are inherently bleak, just not commercially viable in the slightest? Did I get rejected by agents because they knew they couldn't sell the premise?

I mean, they rejected it because I suck. But ya know, I like to think there are other factors at play.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 20:34:46 2021 No.19605668 File: 1012 KB, 1170x2167, BF0D46E8-C762-4933-83B8-42054EECDC95.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 21:36:55 2021 No.19605891 >>19605667 >Did I get rejected by agents because they knew they couldn't sell the premise? What was the premise?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 21:44:29 2021 No.19605923 >>19605336 metaphors are too cringe,

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 21:47:59 2021 No.19605929 File: 150 KB, 1200x1200, 1551652803826.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 4200 words for today.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 22:31:18 2021 No.19606051

Be honest... (greentext denotes italics)

Chapter 1 – The Forgotten Man
2140/09/03

Elliot trudged onward, in a world lit by advertisements and cigarettes. He descended rattling stairs and trudged through splashes of mud with one eye on his WPS map. It was updating and buffering and apologizing for its failure to function, while he skirted neon pools and tripped over drip buckets.

>‘Shouldn’t have listened. Should have trusted my gut.’

His lips snarled and his nose wrinkled when he passed underneath the train station he wanted to get off on, rather than the WPS map’s destination. He could hear the pounding of rain on the glass awnings overhead, the drizzle of static like a dying speaker. Rain never fell on the ground in Bastion. Whether it was bridges, signs, power cables or train lines, something hung overhead, covering the ground with unchecked growth.

He jabbed his thumb on the map to no avail. The program apologized for low bandwidth. “EVE, come on. First you can’t talk to me, now you can’t even navigate me?” He glanced up, to the strata of city above where air could still flow. A trickle of data flowed down, alongside the rain. Water gushed from cracks and gutters between the skyscrapers, carrying the echoes of the city.

While he was staring in the direction of his own apartment, his phone chimed and glowed blue. It had triangulated with all the wireless routers. The light colored his face with the triumphant order, “Turn left.”

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 22:44:09 2021 No.19606092

>>19606051
Cyberpunk? I'll give it a go.
First paragraph, trudge is used twice. I'd recommend changing one of those verbs.
>His lips snarled and his nose wrinkled when he passed underneath the train station he wanted to get off on, rather than the WPS map’s destination.
This is an awkward sentence. Two immediate actions followed by a transition word to action left me a little out of breath. Try a few different arrangements of that.
The arrangement of landscape and character action leads to a lot of confusing imagery. I have to either constantly revise the image in my head or skip making an image altogether. The content is there, but it's a jigsaw puzzle that hasn't been assembled. Just needs some rearranging.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 22:53:45 2021 No.19606123 >>19606092 Yeah, it's cyberpunk, and I'm ashamed I missed the trudge repeat. My brain is fried.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 22:57:21 2021 No.19606134

>>19606051
Comma splice in the first sentence. You shouldn't expect anyone to read beyond that.
Three other commas are misused later. Google that shit.
Bastion is an incredibly tryhard name.
Characters speaking to themselves out loud only happens in movies.
Overall, this is a lot of you feeling your way around the mood and atmosphere. Let me know when the story actually starts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:11:09 2021 No.19606190 >>19606134 Well you had one good point, so thank you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:14:39 2021 No.19606209 >>19606134 First is maybe a good catch. Everything after is just pseud garbage that comes off as though you're trying to fit in.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:17:50 2021 No.19606219 >>19606209 No argument detected.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:22:07 2021 No.19606248 >>19604049 Robert M. Pirsig got rejected by 120 publishers before getting Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance out there, so this is fine, everything is fine!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:41:03 2021 No.19606327 File: 71 KB, 1024x768, switch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] In your best prose, describe this image.

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:49:29 2021 No.19606373
File: 244 KB, 540x222, 8090EE5D-D1FE-40B8-860B-CBC0C4DFF317.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19606051
Not bad anon. I have a hard time finishing most garbage posted to /wg/, but this one actually makes me want to read more.

The atmosphere feels a bit too similar to bladerunner to me (cyberpunk meets noir), nothing bad but also nothing original.

In 2140 will they use the terms ‘phone’, ‘cigarette’, ‘neon’, ‘static/speaker’, ‘wireless router’? This is where you can start to show how this world differs from ours, easier to do it in a film in a couple seconds…but you’ve got to be subtler and weave it all in.

All said, though, good hook. I’m interested in seeing more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:53:18 2021 No.19606389 >>19606327 President George Washington, general and father of the country, reconsiders this whole ‘freedom’ thing. Perhaps King George had the right of it after all…

Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:53:51 2021 No.19606396

>>19606327
The rot of decaying teeth and bacterial mats erupted a foul smell into the surroundings as the corpulent gamer opened wide his maw, a mindless, imbecile-like yowling escaping that rancid hole.
The foul smell from his mouth went unnoticed, though, for to smell it one would have to be immediately in his presence, and none could stand the far more pungent odor of his sweaty, unwashed head or body. Of course even these smells went unnoticed by all, on account of the slab of hairy meat being alone in his grotto, his body clothed only in a moist shirt, his lower body naked and leaving stains of sweat mixed with feces wherever he sat or lay, the ingrown, fungus-infected toenails making walking an unpleasant exercise, his weight making his knees creak.
There was a prisoner in this fleshy gaol, this oubilette of despair and decay. One could see it, if not in the despairing eyes behind the black-rimmed glasses (+3), then at l east in the chose form of entertainment this blob idled its time away with.
Children's video games, Crash Bandicoot and Super Mario, were what appealed to him. Yes, in this body of a man, or what could with an educated guess, based mostly on the thin beard covering the jowls to be guessed was a man (primary sexual characteristics hidden away by rolls of fat, secondary sexual characters inconclusive owing to said fat), in this body, yes, there was trapped a child.
What cruel fate had imprisoned a mere child in such a hell? Upon the wall hung an enlarged dollar bill, an ambivalent George Washington looking down on the misery that had been born of the grand dream he once shed blood for. Not like this, George seemed to be thinking. Not like this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 20 23:56:46 2021 No.19606403 >>19606396 >There was a prisoner in this fleshy gaol, this oubilette of despair and decay. I really like this part, well done.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 00:04:29 2021 No.19606440

>>19606373
Thanks

You know, there's some interesting speculation about what the future will be like in the subtler ways, but it's difficult to change everything in the world, even if it's accurate.

I do actually believe that many things will retain an identity through continuity of function. Wireless routers for instance, I don't care if it's a thousand years in the future, you'll still need a machine that handles data packet transmission between devices. Yes, you can technically daisy chain it through the internet of things, but that's only a technicality and will never be better than design built hubs.

My main focus is virtual reality though.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 00:12:34 2021 No.19606465

>>19606327
Paul did not take this photo for himself. He posed like this for his friends, friends who understand his humor and get the joke. Some see Paul as an overweight neckbeard - he’d be the last to deny it - but he’s moved past his insecurities, and has learned to take joy in his eccentricities.

One of Paul’s friends - though perhaps not so great a friend - posted his image to an imageboard, hoping to have some fun at his expense. There were some laughs to be had, but honestly the whole thing just rang hollow. Sad, lonely people just projecting their own insecurities. Paul’s not trolling and decyphering fucking captchas right now, he’s up late catching god damned Pokemon with his girlfriend.

Seethe, friend. Paul is the worst of us, and still he is better than you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 00:13:50 2021 No.19606470 >>19606465 Paul, Paul, round as a ball!

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 00:27:16 2021 No.19606533 >>19606465 Paul you're a fat faggot. Change your diet and stop drinking soda.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 02:43:36 2021 No.19607040 >>19606470 holy kek

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 03:04:03 2021 No.19607095 >>19605923 Could you elaborate and post examples plx, seeing how the rest of this thread has progressed I'll add a disclaimer: IM NOT SAYING YOU'RE WRONG

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 05:06:06 2021 No.19607364 File: 245 KB, 1000x643, AKMŁ_NTW_4_92_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Are there any magazines or outlets that publish short stories anymore? I'd like to try those before i publish stuff online or whatever

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 06:28:43 2021 No.19607546 Estelle is simply happy in her role as a suburban mother; but if someone asked her, I'm sure she would be able to quote chapter and verse from The American Way of Death.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 06:31:51 2021 No.19607552

>>19607546

Every evening after dinner Estelle walks the two blocks to Hillside Memorial Park Cemetery, carrying her Walkman, her purse, and her briefcase. Every night she makes the same rounds, checking her grave site, saying hello to friends, relatives, strangers, the bereaved and the lovelorn. When darkness falls, she returns to the house for tea and cookies. Then, at last, when every soul has retired for the night, she lights her cigarettes, turns on her portable radio/cassette deck, and listens to her favorite record player while she smokes and drinks her Ovaltine.

All this time her three children sleep upstairs, their bedrooms carefully darkened to avoid waking them. They do not share her enthusiasm for rock-'N'-roll or classical music, nor for current television fare. Their tastes run toward sports (mostly football and baseball); science fiction ("Invasion of the Body Snatchers" is among their favorites); westerns; and horror movies. All good things, certainly, but no match for The Beatles' "Revolution 9," Ella Fitzgerald singing Cole Porter songs, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, or John Williams conducting the NBC Symphony Orchestra. Those are what Estelle plays to keep her sanity through the long nights, alone with the dead.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 06:33:45 2021 No.19607556 >>19605929 Why?

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 06:39:54 2021 No.19607576

>>19607552

She may glance uneasily around the room before picking up her cup of tea again and drinking, her eyes darting everywhere as though fearful that a wicked prankster has somehow managed to creep in behind her back. Like many people who believe themselves secure, Estelle is somewhat paranoid, and perhaps understandably so.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 08:59:51 2021 No.19608051 1936. That's how many words I wrote while at work today. Sweet.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:04:46 2021 No.19608066

>>19607576

Outside the window, headlights flash across the glass, illuminating Stella Horan's drawn features briefly. She turns away. A silence falls. Outside, somewhere beyond the screen porch, there is a sudden howl. An eerie, inhuman cry rises above the surrounding traffic noises and fades quickly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:11:24 2021 No.19608092 >>19606396 Truly lovecraftian.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:22:14 2021 No.19608124 >>19603567 I’ll have you know most great writers, like Stephen king, are professed discovery writers. Can you point to a single author who was known for outlining who didn’t write mechanical crap?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:23:52 2021 No.19608127 File: 127 KB, 399x473, E718E5F8-7B3E-4F93-9018-BCB118AECEFA.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How do you know when a rape scene has gone from horrifying to indulging in fetish?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:36:32 2021 No.19608169 File: 98 KB, 600x470, 2nd Sq 2nd Cav 1974 b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I've shifted from working on my two novels to working on short stories and im making way more progress Any other anons do this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:40:59 2021 No.19608183 >>19608169 I wrote a novel It sucked and didn't get picked up immediately so I gave up on it I'm now writing short stories also

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:43:35 2021 No.19608194 >>19605668 Thoughts lads?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:44:40 2021 No.19608203 >>19608127 If it makes my pp hard, it's indulgence. If it makes me contemplate the horrific state of our patriarchal society that sees women as objects, then it's acceptable.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:50:11 2021 No.19608225

>>19608169
Novels are the long haul game for me. I've never liked short stories because there isn't enough room for me to completely flesh out a large cast of characters and ideas. But recently, I've been able to get over that and try my hand at it and I can see the appeal. It is more immediate pay-off, but I don't feel like I get the same feeling of familiarity and completeness like I do when I finish a novel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 09:57:35 2021 No.19608249 File: 96 KB, 500x473, 1505383285711.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >can't not write >writing is shit

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:02:28 2021 No.19608270 >>19608225 >>19608183 I write out all my half baked ideas that couldn't be fleshed out into full length stories, mostly stuff you could characterize as weird fiction

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:04:47 2021 No.19608285 >>19608127 When you focus on thighs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:05:38 2021 No.19608290 >Get self-editing software >It flags passive voice >It flags it even when it's identifying clauses >He ran to the girl [who had cried out for help] God I fucking hate programs

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:08:34 2021 No.19608298 >>19608290 Word does this to me too. The most annoying one is incorrectly flagging periods as question sentences, or vice versa. Sometimes the concise checker gets on my nerves too, like changing "have to" into "must".

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:09:58 2021 No.19608308 >>19608051 Your boss here, you're fired

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:10:46 2021 No.19608313 >>19608298 This damn program says I used "asked" as a dialogue tag too many times. Who the hell uses said for a question?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:12:09 2021 No.19608321 >>19608313 Come on anon, you should want to write the way AI insists you should write. It's just good practice. Prose is dead and you will like the new world cookie-cutter order.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:12:19 2021 No.19608323 >>19608308 Lars was playing Tetris the entire time on the computer next to me you can't do this

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:15:12 2021 No.19608333

>>19608321
I was also instructed to remove any "distancing or reporting structures like 'felt'" Not just by the algorithm, but by other writers swearing by the practice. And yet no one could rewrite these without fundamentally corrupting them

>“The therapist didn’t help anyways,” he said. When he felt water in his eyes, he knocked back the last of his whiskey and wiped his face off.

>It was a warm touch of skin to his numb fingers as he prodded between tendons and muscles like wires, digging for a beat that wasn’t there. He felt the sinking grow in his face, in his gut; the drag against his soul that made him want to vomit the more he let his mind linger on it.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 10:51:36 2021 No.19608504

I'm becoming so disillusioned with writing that I don't even want critique anymore. As in, I've just grown so used to it on my own end and so familiar with how writing is done across the board that I feel like I have nothing left to newly learn, but plenty left to choose, in terms of my own writing. I feel like I can finally just make decisions without needing to tether to a source for guidance.
I've had plenty of praise and plenty of faults pointed out to me. Now it all just feels quite pointless, and I feel like I could leave the writing community to just drift off and write daily for many days without really asking of anyone's opinion. I'd shill here only because there's a chance that you and me are interested in the same thing. But otherwise I just feel so distant from my previous needs that I'm wondering if this is a good thing. Kind of like someone who has a moment of clarity right before they drink something really strong or eat something that'll fuck them up for many hours onwards.
Should I just succumb to whatever the fuck's going on? Have you felt this too?

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 11:32:49 2021 No.19608666

>>19607556
Actually the post was a lie. After my evening engagement finished I went and wrote more. Got to 5k yesterday. Novel will have 16 chapters and I've just finished chapter 8. Started about a month ago, aiming for 100k.

I love writing. Feels good, man.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:38:20 2021 No.19608939 File: 118 KB, 1280x720, top_dawg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >main character is a depressed/deranged hacker with DID based on a historical figure >remember MR. ROBOT Scrap it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:45:35 2021 No.19608984 >>19608939 Possible solutions I've found >embrace it (mention it?) >scrap it >change the condition(it was done before) >focus on the differences and lean on those >gender swap them (risky)

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:48:29 2021 No.19608996 >>19608124 This post. mwah

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:49:50 2021 No.19609004 >>19608313 Harlan Ellison.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:55:25 2021 No.19609034 >>19608939 that's also the main character of double down, and i couldn't think of two more different stories

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:57:37 2021 No.19609041 >>19608939 Thats like cyberpunk MC #1 trope de jour. Give it a twist and run with it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 12:58:36 2021 No.19609047 File: 24 KB, 468x286, 1505373694457.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19603567 >>19608124 fight more

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:00:15 2021 No.19609053 >>19609047 There's no point. His post praising King is satire. This is coming from an early King fan. His only good books were From a Buick 8 and The Gunslinger (unabridged).

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:01:57 2021 No.19609063 >>19608984 Anything except >mention it? Just make sure the plot is original (even if the characters aren’t) and you’ll be fine.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:03:41 2021 No.19609070

>>19608504
>I'm becoming so disillusioned with writing that I don't even want critique anymore. As in, I've just grown so used to it on my own end and so familiar with how writing is done across the board that I feel like I have nothing left to newly learn, but plenty left to choose, in terms of my own writing. I feel like I can finally just make decisions without needing to tether to a source for guidance.
I half get this. I've only ever read one "self guide" for writing in my life, though, and I'm always trying to see if I really know how to write or if I'm missing something major, especially in idea presentation and prose (I suffer heavily from a negative bias toward description and explanation, for example).
>I've had plenty of praise and plenty of faults pointed out to me. Now it all just feels quite pointless, and I feel like I could leave the writing community to just drift off and write daily for many days without really asking of anyone's opinion. I'd shill here only because there's a chance that you and me are interested in the same thing. But otherwise I just feel so distant from my previous needs that I'm wondering if this is a good thing. Kind of like someone who has a moment of clarity right before they drink something really strong or eat something that'll fuck them up for many hours onwards.
Self confidence in your own work is important. Often I get doubts about whether what I wrote is good enough, and sometimes I remember I am my own standard of what good enough entails. Provided I can scientifically prove that what I've written follows generally accepted good writing practice.
>Should I just succumb to whatever the fuck's going on? Have you felt this too?
I do feel this sometimes. Ultimately I've always gone with my gut for writing. Sometimes it steers me completely wrong, especially in prose, and I think if I just tried to actually write explanation and description again I'd find there's a lot more to writing than I have been doing recently. But to your original point, I don't need a book or guide to tell me that. I know what needs to be fixed and how.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:08:55 2021 No.19609094
File: 59 KB, 365x441, inanna2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19604159
https://ghostbin.com/QWx3x
I've applied some edits, still looking for someone to do me a huge solid and read the whole thing to give me crit on the overall vibe and pace (~3800 words)

>>19605668
overall it's got too many clauses and commas hindering the build/flow. I enjoy the projector metaphor, the twist and then twist again of the operator waking up but then still falling to his death, but the pynchonian all-over-the-place, flashes of descriptors kind of thing is unnecessary.
tl;dr trim the fat and the flare and let your ideas/motifs shine

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:25:35 2021 No.19609169 File: 12 KB, 487x287, 1378790760671.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Had a dream an anon dedicated their novel to mine and it had like over 20 mentions of it and some of my illustrations as a showcase. Then I woke up.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:31:39 2021 No.19609197

On an early day in December, I find myself on a walk along the Manayunk canal, officially dubbed the towpath, in the northwestern reaches of Philadelphia. The towpath is a 2 mile riverside walkway stretching from Main Street up to the flat rock dam, just outside of Conshohocken. Sometime, a long time ago (the kind of “long time ago” that could either be 50 or 100 years, probably no longer, but most definitely no nearer) the canal was flanked on the far side by a set of active train tracks, now, long abandoned. The tracks still remain, covered in rocks and weeds, used fishing lines, crushed yellowed Miller Lite cans, steel rusting to nothing. About a mile from town, the tracks lead through a not-quite abandoned paper mill, surely finding that business, too, is rusting away in an increasingly digital existence. First the tracks go, then the trucks, then the infrastructure, until there’s nothing left to rot away, and the oaks and pines that once inhabited this stretch of southeastern Pennsylvania begin to reclaim what was once theirs.

Somewhere in the distance I hear the friendly gunshots of the renovation of the St. John the Baptist Catholic church. The echoed shots occur in succession, equidistant from each other, creating a perfect 1-2-3-4 count off for the hushed city ambience that returned immediately after. This neighborhood provides a sense of isolation from the crumbling infrastructure and daily crime just a few miles down Route 76. If one had heard those roofers in any other part of the city, they would think twice, gazing around nervously, unassumingly for the culprit, before giving themselves over to the realities of living in the modern American city.

But here, in the city’s farthest reaches northwest, where the row homes up the hill begin to give way to standalones, retirement plans, Audis, it’s easy to forget how close you are to decay. A few months ago a man was gunned down by an AK-47 in Roxborough, where all the college kids from Manayunk go once they find a high paying job, family, two kids, probably 30 years down, if ever. The isolated instance of senseless violence still hangs in my head. I can’t tell you the last Kensington shooting, the most run down of north Philadelphia neighborhoods, but if you asked a resident there I don’t think they would be able to either. It is the same sort of willful ignorance that proves helpful when living in the corrupted chaos of urbanation, whether in the thick of the madness or just a bystander. I don’t think anyone who lives in a city is happy, until they live in the parts of it when they can pretend they’re not part of the city anymore. The best views of this place are reserved for two men - the extremely rich, and the extremely poor. For the rest of us, we’re stuck with walks through the places that remind us of better ones, if such places still exist

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:35:47 2021 No.19609221 >Do not send: >Plots/themes centering around unresolved trauma why are agents like this? that's like 20% of literature.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:38:37 2021 No.19609229 >>19609221 You answered your own question.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:52:51 2021 No.19609291

>I'd love more LGBTQ+ storylines in all genres and ages (especially bi, ace, and trans voices!).
>I DEFF want feminists who find inclusive, non violent ways of pushing back the patriarchy (all genders/identities).
>I absolutely love darker voices in YA if tackling mental health issues and I'd love to see MG take on some deeper themes (homelessness, foster homes, autism, racism, feminism, etc.).

and you know if you actually sent her something about someone who was mentally ill she would say it's too "depressing" or "unrealistic" or "she couldnt connect with the character." why are agents like this.
any anons want to send her their autism diaries go ahead and post what she replies with. i have a hunch she won't "be able to connect with the narrator". it's all just shallow words and virtue signalling with these people.

querying has left me in despair!

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:53:21 2021 No.19609293

I'm going balls deep on writing a fantasy novel of an idea I've had since I was a stupid teen. I'm 30 now and I've got the plot outline and themes all set up, most of the characters finished and the first chapter's nearly done.
What are some basic baby warnings or tips for drooling retards such as me who's experience writing has been mostly online roleplay for 20 years?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 13:54:41 2021 No.19609299 how do I know my story is nearing its end? I don't know how to stop a journey really. I could just keep inventing shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:00:44 2021 No.19609325 >>19609293 Said bookisms. Dont mistake world-building for plot. Reveal the magic of your setting drips only when plot-relevant. Keep things mysterious. Congrats, if you follow these rules you are better than 99% of all post-Tolkien fantasy writers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:01:04 2021 No.19609328 >>19609291 Standard 'not the agent for this project' rejection

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:03:12 2021 No.19609340

>>19609291
Id throw her a query about my horror ms regarding a small town literal schizo girl getting "Mean-Girls'ed" by a woods witch, but she probably doesn't read horror. Plus, the themes are far too anti-globo establishment, leaning innawoods for her to connect to.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:04:36 2021 No.19609346 >>19609299 You plan the arcs before you start, lmao. Are you Stephen King bychance?

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:09:57 2021 No.19609373

>>19609328
exactly.
just looked at 2 different agencies and won't send to either. all they publish is trash. if i look at your list and there isn't even one single decent title there your entire agency is trash and i'd rather be broke and dead than work with you, the people who are befouling the industry with mass market GARBAGE. endless bodice rippers, chick lit, feminist YA, stories about women who think they are witches, books about wammenz whinging about how oppressed they are and being QUIRKY and WITTY and SMART, etc. Give it a fucking rest already. Am I crazy or is there just NOTHING decent being published anymore? Nothing. Nothing good is published now. It's just endless reiterative trash that could have been written by AI.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:11:42 2021 No.19609382

>>19609221
I was thinking about the hook to my story and I don't think I've boiled down how to pitch it. How do I hook before the inciting incident?
>address protagonist's yearning for self
>hint at super-intelligence tied to protag's seemingly inevitable death
>hint at southern gothic setting which develops more after the inciting incident
>themes of justification, envy and alienation
>isnt sick-lit and major conflict is not an unresolved trauma, but one subplot does involve a mildly crippling injury that coincides with the guilt of manslaughter
Would agents get irritated?

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:16:32 2021 No.19609411

>>19609382
>asking me to read the minds of irascible cunts
they're looking for the wine aunt equivalent of a self insert isekai harem. preferably set in scotland or victorian england about a woman who thinks she's a witch and is just too GOOD for her backwater small town setting full of dumb patriarchy men who aren't as smart as she is.

there you go, instant taker for these pathetic mop-muff hags. the absolute STATE. i think i'm just going to shoot myself in the head.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:19:43 2021 No.19609418

>>19609094
Didn’t have anything better to do, figured it’s worth a go.

>First person/unreliable narrator/very academic voice
Not disqualifying, but it makes it a bit harder for a reader to stay engaged. Best when the plot itself is fast paced.

>patient in a mental hospital, introducing the other residents
Not the sort of engaging plot I was hoping for.

>Not long ago I was apprehended by the authorities…
Honestly, I think the story reads better without the first para. Just jump in with ‘captivity is not so bad’ and fill in blanks later.

>the plot
Overall, I was not very drawn into the plot (if there was one) it was hard to tell fact from imagining. Though that may be the point, it did not make for a very engaging read, and i found myself going back b/c it seems things were being repeated.

>The characters
For such a short story, you have a lot of characters to introduce, so all get only a superficial treatment (name, peculiar mental state, anecdote). May be easier to limit to two characters, perhaps frame as a session b/w MC and Glenn (or a one-way conversation with Bob)

>writing style
Neither the beat nor worst I’ve read. Could def be tightened up. Suggest fine-tuning your characters voice, perhaps keep the smarts but make it more casual/conversational (think MC from The Martian) to make it easier for reader to sympathize.

>Fricatives and affricates, voiced alveolars
Really like the last para, and the whole lingual angle (what’s the backstory here, was this person a linguist? Vocal coach?) Suggest moving that scene forward, perhaps putting the rest in past tense.

>Summary
Overall, it was…okay. I think it has the seed of being an interesting story, but it was a bit of a chore to get through.

Just my opinion, though…keep it up, and i look forward to the next version.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:21:48 2021 No.19609425
File: 92 KB, 936x442, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

New opening for the novel I'm preparing for Querying. Would you consider this an effective 'hook'?

Pain is the catalyst for all morphosis. The transition from ease into suffering always signals a sideways shifting of theme towards tragedy. For the Hale household, tragedy was a distant thing, like a quasar of abstract impossibility burning at the heart of some unknown galaxy. Being an Architect, Timothy Hale made his life one of terrestrial things, concrete forms and steel, structural integrity, and the computations required to span distances between. Without a mind for the inevitability of that distant heartbreak, he failed to note the curling heat born into the center of him, a little star stretching its limbs. A little pain, yearning towards tragedy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:25:17 2021 No.19609440 >>19609418 Thanks my guy, I appreciate the feedback

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:33:56 2021 No.19609472 >british agencies are so polite, professional, and understanding >american agencies are entitled, rude, and dismissive what the fuck

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:34:18 2021 No.19609474 >>19609425 no; way too much fluff.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:36:43 2021 No.19609485 >>19609474 I'll delete, trim it and repost. Sec.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:44:14 2021 No.19609513 >>19609425 absolutely no. you're throwing word salad at them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:45:29 2021 No.19609519 File: 470 KB, 500x500, 1604768615364.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19609472 What British agency can I submit to as an American?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 14:46:44 2021 No.19609526 >>19609519 All of them. Which ones will accept you is a different question.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:00:04 2021 No.19609586 Quickly, in ten words: what is your magnum opus’s Big Idea? I’ll give mine. Man travels back in time to rape his ex-girfriends.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:00:42 2021 No.19609593 >>19609586 If he travels back into the right timelines it wont even be rape.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:04:13 2021 No.19609606
File: 80 KB, 936x388, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19609513
>>19609474
If it changes anything, it's a gothic.

Pain is the catalyst for all morphosis. But Tim Hale was a young man yet, and pain a distant thing, like a quasar or other potential cosmic catastrophe burning, ignored in the deep of space. Being an Architect, he focused instead on terrestrial things, concrete forms and steel, structural integrity and the computations required to span distances between. Without a thought on the inevitability of distant heartbreak, he failed to note the curling heat born into the center of him, a little star stretching its limbs. A little pain, pupated, ready for its emergence as tragedy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:14:19 2021 No.19609643 >>19609606 Again, this isn't a novel opening, it reads like a description of a novel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:18:26 2021 No.19609655 Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone. Other times, though, it pays to poke around in people's wounds.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:22:05 2021 No.19609678 >>19609586 In time, everything turns to shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:25:32 2021 No.19609692 >writing a summary of characters' backstories >enough ideas for, at least, twenty spinoffs is it normal?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:29:15 2021 No.19609709 >>19609692 Absolutely. The hardest part of writing is not coming up with ideas, but having the strength to pick the good ones and leave the rest aside

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:33:11 2021 No.19609727 >>19609692 >genrefiction writers

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:40:01 2021 No.19609759 >>19609727 >unpubbed elitists You are an uppity nigger.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:44:15 2021 No.19609782
File: 475 KB, 500x500, 1636210880569.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19609586
>Kierkegaardesque dark fantasy, magic based on existential motivations, not skill.
I'm not writing it yet and outline is barebones, doing other stories first. Guess that's not really a big idea, I'm still trying to figure it all out as I read and live. I look forward to writing scenes with the first act's antagonist, who is based on an ambitious, industrious woman that helped convince me to start writing instead of going to gradschool.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:45:26 2021 No.19609791 >>19609782 You could have just said will to power fantasy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:47:06 2021 No.19609797 File: 636 KB, 679x665, 1569787613071.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19609791 oh

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:49:22 2021 No.19609809 >>19609782 I'm just not falling in love with this, so it's a pass from me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:55:28 2021 No.19609836 Could you guys imagine going to an agent's MSWL and writing a novel that features every single element they ask for and then getting rejected? lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 15:59:13 2021 No.19609852 >>19609053 Are there writers known for pantsing or outlining so one can compare the quality of output of those methods?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 16:37:58 2021 No.19610016 >>19609643 I HATE THE COLD OPEN I HATE THE COLD OPEN I HATE THE COLD OPEN FUCK. Deleting it all. Cold open it is.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 16:40:20 2021 No.19610032

>>19610016
It’s doesn’t have to be a cold open, but you can’t talk like that and expect people to listen.
For starters: morphosis is change. Don’t say morphosis. There is no need. Say change, people will understand your point, which isn’t ultimately a hard one to understand. Apply this reasoning the rest of your sentences and you’ll be improving a lot

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 16:47:07 2021 No.19610062 >>19610032 The passages are gone, but morphosis was intentional to carry the butterfly metaphor through to the end of the chapter. The book is literally about a person mutating into horrific things.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 16:51:46 2021 No.19610077

>>19610062
It can literally be about whatever you want but if the person who picks up your books can’t get through the first sentence it won’t matter.
Keep what you want, but don’t say you weren’t warned

Also, butterflys “change”, it’s totally find to say they change, evolve, grow, etc. even that they undergo morphosis, uncertain sentences

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:00:43 2021 No.19610114 >>19610077 What makes for a good first sentence? How long should I wait before bringing in rape?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:01:14 2021 No.19610118 >>19610077 It's gone. You are right. I'm just getting some ESL vibes from your posts. Morphosis is a scientific process that isn't directly analogous to plain-jane change.

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:04:54 2021 No.19610136

>>19610114
A good first sentence is direct, or at least pithy and tone setting, imo
>>19610118
I know what morphosis is. What I’m ultimately getting at is you should start plain-jane and develop your ideas and then bring in those big eerie mysterious words. A hook is for hooking, just get the fish on the line, feel me?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:08:18 2021 No.19610151 I wrote one word today.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:08:54 2021 No.19610152 >>19610151 Six.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:11:48 2021 No.19610166 >>19610152 1,230

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:12:07 2021 No.19610169

>>19610114
A good first sentence makes the reader want to know more. It has to ask a question or make a promise.

My first sentence, posted above "Elliot trudged onward, in a world lit by advertisements and cigarettes" isn't the best I've ever written, but it introduces the character and sets the tone. It doesn't ask a question, it doesn't give the plot, that's why I had to go in and add "Navigation to the stiff had failed, again." as the third sentence, because that's where the question is.

The best first line I've ever written was
>It all started when I sucker punched the wizard.
Because there's like a dozen ways that could play out, and not a single one of them is boring. It plays on the reader's preconceptions and makes them want to know the context. It also implies an underdog aspect, because it's a main character getting the better of an elite (wizard)

But enough about my writing
>The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
>I always get the shakes before a drop.
>In the week before their departure to Arrakis, when all the final scurrying abouthad reached a nearly unbearable frenzy, an old crone came to visit the mother of the boy, Paul.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:14:14 2021 No.19610176 >>19608127 Post it and I'll tell you if it is or not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:17:06 2021 No.19610183 >>19610169 For every remarkable, published opening, there are thousands upon untold thousands of unremarkable published openings, especially these days.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:24:19 2021 No.19610207 >>19610183 What's your point? That normies will throw money at things for bad reasons? Doesn't change what a good opening is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:26:21 2021 No.19610214 >>19610207 My point is obsessing over the "perfect" opening isn't what gets a writer published. Even comparing the examples he posted, Herbert's is meandering garbage. As this guy >>19610136 Would say. Just say old woman, or grandma. Same thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 17:41:47 2021 No.19610289 Fresh bread >>19610284 >>19609836 tfw

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 21 18:22:00 2021 No.19610447 >>19610151 I ripped off Goon today

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 20:03:04 2021 No.19610828

>>19609197
>On an early day in December

This doesn't make sense. Is it early in the day, or is the day early in December?

"On a day early in December"
"Early in the morning in December"

>walk along the Manayunk Canal, officially dubbed

No sense.

1. To dub is to give something an unofficial name. An unoffical official name?

"Manayunk canal, dubbed the towpath"
", known as the towpath"

2. Is the Manayunk Canal called "the towpath," or is the route beside it called
that? This is the ambiguity caused by your bad construction. (Yes, the reader
finds out later, but there is no need for this ambiguity)

>northwestern reaches

"northwest reaches" is better.

>Sometime, a long time ago (the kind of “long time ago” that could either be 50 or
100 years, probably no longer, but most definitely no nearer)

1. "A long time ago." Remove "sometime"

2. "(the kind of long time that could either be 50 or
100 years, probably no longer, but certainly no sooner)" does that not sound better, anon?

>flanked on the far side

just say "on the far side were a set of long abandoned tracks" (11 words vs 18), or something.
Everything in the name of CONCISION!

>The tracks still remain

still and remain mean the same thing: remove "still"

>used fishing lines

"used" adds nothing to this clause. of course the fishing line is used.

>crushed yellowed Miller Lite cans

"crushed and yellowed" sounds better.

>steel rusting to nothing

No. steel corrodes to rust, not nothing. Something never becomes nothing, anon, it
only changes. "old steel, eaten by the years, rusting into red and brown" or something...

>a not-quite abandoned paper mill, surely finding that business, too, is rusting away in an increasingly digital existence

I get what you're going for, but the rust metaphor doesn't make sense when applied to paper or business.
The proper metaphor is broader: decay. Think about how paper decays. Then it will fit with the previous
image of forgotten railways.

don't say "not abandoned." That is a negative phrase. Use a positive one such as "grasping for custom" or something..."on the edge of foreclosure"
Say what it is, not what it isn't.

>First the tracks go, then the trucks, then the infrastructure

Tracks are infrastructure.

>rot away.

Cliché. Find a metaphor for decay which is more suitable to these man-made things.

>Somewhere in the distance I hear the friendly gunshots of the renovation of the St. John the Baptist Catholic church

the the the the the

Anonymous Tue Dec 21 20:04:06 2021 No.19610829

>>19610828
"In the distance I hear the gunshots of renovators working on St. John the Baptist."

>The echoed shots occur in succession, equidistant from each other, creating a perfect 1-2-3-4 count off for the hushed city ambience that returned immediately after.

This idea is not bad, anon, well done. You still executed it sloppily, though.

"The shots echoed in equidistant succession, creating a sarcastic 4/4 lead in to the full silence of the city (morning?) that followed immediately after." Is this the image you were getting at? I like it anyhow.

Are you implying nailguns? Seems unlikely for an apparently historic church.

>This neighborhood provides a sense of isolation from the crumbling infrastructure and daily crime just a few miles down Route 76.

Surely you can put this neater?

"This neighborhood is a haven away from the crime and corruption just a few miles down Route 76."

>gazing nervously, unassumingly

?? what does that mean lol

>giving themselves over to the reality of living in..."

No. You would say "resigning to the reality of life in..."

this is painful

>But here, in the city’s farthest reaches northwest

Wrong again, anon. You should say "But here, in the city's Northwestern reaches"

"farthest reaches" is unnecessary.

use your ear, anon. it is the opposite phrase to the one you used at the start.

>row homes up the hill begin to give way to standalones, retirement plans e.t.c

"row homes give away to standalones"*

sounds better, right anon?

>probably 30 years down, if ever

"30 years down the line" I think you mean

> I can’t tell you the last Kensington shooting, the most run down of north Philadelphia neighborhoods

WRONG!!! "I can’t tell you the last shooting in Kensington, the most run down of north Philadelphia neighborhoods"*

>lives in a city is happy

"live in this city"*

sounds better

>For the rest of us, we’re stuck with walks through the places that remind us of better ones

Nice. Lose the last clause though "if such places still exist" - a bit on the nose

retard

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/lit/ - Literature