/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19579097]

Why do the alphabet people like this guy? Didn't he write a four volume book arguing that the emergence of "sexuality" as a discursive object and separate sphere of life and the notion that every individual has a sexuality is a relatively recent development in Western societies? Seems kinda contradictory.

[Anonymous No.19579389]

They want to implement what he sought to critique

[Anonymous No.19579408]

Idk but I ordered volume 1 of History Of Sexuality last week. Discipline and Punish was my first foray into nonfiction outside of autobiographies and I really liked it

[Anonymous No.19579412]

>>19579389
this

[Anonymous No.19579426]

>>19579097
>Why do the alphabet people like this guy?
He and other 68 thinkers sowed division amongst leftists, between themselves and the the more orthodox Marxists. The CIA thought his and his peers' supposedly radical ideas were completely benign.

[Anonymous No.19579429]

>>19579097
Sexualities not a recent development but recently pathologised / psychoanalysed (along with other modes / expressions of behaviour).

"Sexualities" always existed only they were never categorised into types. In a way, pre 19th century, nobody really cared much what you got up to.

Then it becomes an aspect of human behaviour that can be manipulated by institutions (medical institutions).

[Anonymous No.19579437]

>>19579097
>Why do the alphabet people like this guy? Didn't he write a four volume book arguing that the emergence of "sexuality" as a discursive object and separate sphere of life and the notion that every individual has a sexuality is a relatively recent development in Western societies? Seems kinda contradictory.
Yeah, but progressive types don't actually read

[Anonymous No.19579533]

>>19579097
>Why do the alphabet people
They're mentally ill who cares?

[Anonymous No.19579576]

Because all they cared about was the reemergence of a robust working class movement in France and Italy that emphasized highly practical forms of praxis, like general strikes and straightforward "worker solidarity good, bourgeois government fundamentally untrustworthy and bad." They saw these movements as destabilizers of regimes that were essentially vassals of the Anglo-American bloc administered by the CIA, and as potential fifth columns that would collaborate readily with Soviet spies. Sartre may have been an old hack with a muddled and derivative philosophy, but he was at least (along with the rest of his generation like Merleau-Ponty and Beauvoir) a sincere Marxist ideologue to the point of being an apologist for Soviet tyranny.

Nothing Foucault says or does matters much if the fundamental effect of his class of new intellectuals on influential French discourse was to muddle and disperse its working class praxis orientation. Look at the dismay and bitterness of Marxist intellectuals like Lefebvre as they watched leftism go from a practical movement capable of working in tandem with parties and unions to a class status symbol for bourgeois hippies in the universities. Even look at Althusser's supposedly hard-line Marxism, which was just commie orthodoxy but muddled and diluted by "theory" and narcissistic "eccentric genius" performativity typical of Parisians. The only people who can derive anything from Althusser, let alone identify with him, are faggot university students who have never worked a day in their lives.

It doesn't matter whether you think communism is plausible or not or Marxism is correct or not, the CIA didn't give a shit about that because it took it for granted that communism/Marxism were simply incorrect. What they cared about was that a praxis-oriented intelligentsia would continually redirect energy into working class solidarity movements that could then, at best, cause bad PR and legitimacy crises for (neo)liberal governments, and at worst, act as eager fifth columns for Soviet subversion, e.g. by showing naive philo-Soviet intellectuals like Sartre potemkin villages.

Look at what the CIA was doing with the Congress for Cultural Freedom, and Encounter Magazine, and probably a thousand other things. When they weren't shaping and directing cultural discourse to act as legitimising propaganda for NATO neoliberalism, they were isolating and dispersing contrary discourses as much as possible. You don't have to direct control or "plant" French paedophile intellectuals, just ENCOURAGE them to be narcissistic paedophile enablers, maybe pay for a conference or journal here or there that is heavy on the "Marx is dead, long live poststructuralism!" stuff. Most of the contributors won't even know they are working as propagandists, which is ideal because then you don't have to pay them.

[Anonymous No.19579591]

>>19579576
Meds.
Now.

[Anonymous No.19579598]

>>19579576
This

[Anonymous No.19579608]

>>19579576
holy shit i fuckin kneel

[Anonymous No.19579902]

>>19579576
Snap, yep this is going in my MKULTRA compilation.

[v_v !!+e0M0fBMYzt No.19579907]

>>19579097
how do you not see that as anything but a critique of bourgeois heteronormativity lol

[v_v !!+e0M0fBMYzt No.19579921]

>>19579097
how do you see that as anything but a critique of bourgeois heteronormativity lol

[Anonymous No.19579941]

>bourgeois heteronormativity

[v_v !!+e0M0fBMYzt No.19579972]

>>19579437
>>19579533
mindwarping levels of projection

[Anonymous No.19580037]

>>19579576
I think "alphabet people" meant LGBTQIAWASD not alphabet agencies

[Anonymous No.19580040]

>>19580000
Hmmmmm

[Anonymous No.19580049]

>>19579097
>why does lgbtp like foucault?
He was a pedophile, like many great french thinkers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws

[Anonymous No.19580057]

>>19579533
>mental illnesses
Yikes. Have you even read The Birth of the Clinic?

[Anonymous No.19580063]

>>19580049
That's based though. You're a simp if you disagree.

[Anonymous No.19580072]

>>19580063
It's only based if you're not a fag like Foucault

[Anonymous No.19580073]

>>19580072
Socrates was a pederast.

[Anonymous No.19580080]

>>19579576
Based.

>>19580037
Those are the same.

[Anonymous No.19580112]

>>19580073
He wasn't a fag though

[Anonymous No.19580120]

>>19580112
Define 'fag'.

[Anonymous No.19580124]

>>19580120
Someone like Foucault

[Anonymous No.19580127]

>>19579389
Fpbp
Biopolitics are getting implemented harder than anytime before right at this moment. .

[Anonymous No.19580287]

>>19579429
T. Hasnt read foucault

[Anonymous No.19581036]

>>19579097
It doesn't seem contradictory to me in any way? Why would you think declaring something as a recent development invalidates it?

[Anonymous No.19581048]

>>19581036
It goes against some key LGBT talking points (we were born this way, we can't choose our orientation/gender, etc).

[Anonymous No.19581051]

>>19579576
Based.

[Anonymous No.19581054]

>>19581048
But Foucault talks about sexuality as discursive subject, not sexuality per se

[Anonymous No.19581068]

What is his best work to read on the biopolitical?

[Anonymous No.19581098]

>>19581068
Society Must Be Defended
Security, Territory, Population
The Birth of Biopolitics

[Anonymous No.19581103]

>>19581098
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.19581136]

his other major thesis was that the victorians weren't repressed sexually, but instead used a sort of scientific sexuality to infuse sex into everything. so while people may have behaved prudishly in public, the rise of science exploded the power of sex over our lives in a way never seen before

[Anonymous No.19581144]

foucault underrated art critic too

[Anonymous No.19581146]

>>19579097
Because he raped children

[Anonymous No.19581148]

>>19581146
we don't stand for this kind of anti-catholicism here

[Anonymous No.19581211]

>>19579576
>written during american hours
I... the.... what? basé

[Anonymous No.19581215]

>>19580037

[Anonymous No.19581246]

>>19579576
Midcenturyfrenchmarxismbot strikes again. It's been a couple weeks.

[Anonymous No.19582393]

>>19579097
They like him because he raped children.

[Anonymous No.19582457]

>>19579576
based indeed. though it doesn't even need to be CIA/glowie memery, it's literally just a structural consequence of economic complexification and post-industrialism

[Anonymous No.19582502]

>>19580127
Commie foucault fans get very upset when you point out what he would have said about the coof passports and restrictions

[Anonymous No.19582529]

>>19582393
Not uncommon

[Anonymous No.19582951]

>>19580127
Biopolitics AND Deleuze’s society of control with vax passports and so on. All of that postmodern shit is starting to look uncomfortably prescient

[Anonymous No.19583477]

>>19581054
There is no "sexuality" apart from discursive practices which consitute it

[Anonymous No.19583958]

>>19579097
Anon... have you noticed that the people running this circus read his description of the panopticon and went
>That sounds like a great idea

[Anonymous No.19583994]

>>19580073
Gay propaganda

[Anonymous No.19584039]

>>19583994
>I saw inside his cloak and caught fire, and could possess myself no longer; and I thought none was so wise in love-matters as Cydias, who in speaking of a beautiful boy recommends someone to "beware of coming as a fawn before the lion, and being seized as his portion of flesh"; for I too felt I had fallen a prey to some such creature.
Why did Socrates say this then?

[Anonymous No.19584042]

>>19579097
This dude went to bdsm parties where guys got their anuses turned inside out, he'd find the current discourse completely sexless.

[Anonymous No.19584052]

>>19584039
I'm not the guy you're talking to but it's pretty clear that Socrates is talking about the danger of allowing a young man (whom you're instructing) to develop excessive feelings for you just because he's good looking, because you might end up getting mating pressed by the younger guy

[Anonymous No.19584068]

>>19584052
>I saw inside his cloak and caught fire
Is this not a description of homoerotic lust?

[Anonymous No.19584118]

>>19584042
Current-day leftists are literally anti sex and anti freedom in general

[Anonymous No.19584176]

He was a pedophile, fucked children, and wrote essays trying to normalize pedophilia

All his other philosophy is written with an eye to making a world where he could fuck kids

This is why the left loves him, and why Frankfurt School degenerates spawned off him and are the main and animate the left

Leftism has window dressings about healthcare or whatever but most of the movement is grouped around insane losers, a disproportionate amount of whom are pedos

[Anonymous No.19584186]

>>19584176
Foucault came after the Frankfurt School, nice try though. Maybe crack open more of those infographics.

[Anonymous No.19584210]

>>19584176
>He was a pedophile, fucked children, and wrote essays trying to normalize pedophilia
So was literally every single one of the Jewish Prophets, and yet you pray to them, so what's your point?

Also the Frankfurt School predated Foucault by decades and their descendants despised Foucault.

>>19581054
If you want you can just skip Foucault entirely and just crack open the Transgender Industrial Complex. The entire point of LGBTBBQP+ is to mutilate children into being eunuchs for ZOG. It's a complete vindication of Foucault's entire life's work. You're literally using sex AND the medical industry to create a subhuman race of biopower made manifest. These people will literally die if they don't get the immunosuppresants that keep their sex-organs from leaving state control.

The simple fact is that LGTBPPQPFL? turns "Sexuality" into a tool of control. It is administered top-down. "Gay Voice" was created by Jews in a fucking board-room who wanted to see if they could make their minions talk funny.

[Anonymous No.19584239]

>>19584039
> "I mean to say, that all men are bringing to the birth in their bodies and in their souls. There is a certain age at which human nature is desirous of procreation-procreation which must be in beauty and not in deformity; and this procreation is the union of man and woman, and is a divine thing; for conception and generation are an immortal principle in the mortal creature, and in the inharmonious they can never be. But the deformed is always inharmonious with the divine, and the beautiful harmonious. Beauty, then, is the destiny or goddess of parturition who presides at birth, and therefore, when approaching beauty, the conceiving power is propitious, and diffusive, and benign, and begets and bears fruit: at the sight of ugliness she frowns and contracts and has a sense of pain, and turns away, and shrivels up, and not without a pang refrains from conception. And this is the reason why, when the hour of conception arrives, and the teeming nature is full, there is such a flutter and ecstasy about beauty whose approach is the alleviation of the pain of travail. For love, Socrates, is not, as you imagine, the love of the beautiful only." "What then?" "The love of generation and of birth in beauty." "Yes," I said. "Yes, indeed," she replied. "But why of generation?" "Because to the mortal creature, generation is a sort of eternity and immortality," she replied; "and if, as has been already admitted, love is of the everlasting possession of the good, all men will necessarily desire immortality together with good: Wherefore love is of immortality."

cope and seethe more

[Anonymous No.19584240]

>>19584176
Why don't you refute his arguments then

[Anonymous No.19584257]

>>19584210
Meds.

[Anonymous No.19584271]

>>19584239
Address this post >>19584068

[Anonymous No.19584282]

You’re 17 and and 364 days old? AAAAAAAAAA I AM GOOOOING INSAAAAAANEEEE

[Anonymous No.19584289]

>>19584271
I have never read Charmides so give me a few minutes.

[Anonymous No.19584337]

>>19584210
>don't read actual philosophers just skip straight to a flavor of the month culture war meme book
did you a lot of good

[Anonymous No.19584380]

>>19584271
I have no answer for you right now. It seems to me that Plato is explaining how a wiser man is able to control his impulses.Still I do not see a defense of pederasty or homosexuality in Plato, I see him showing how lust needs to be controlled. Certainly homosexual lust. But Im not sure what is going on in this text desu.

[Anonymous No.19584388]

I bought some post 68 French Marxist books and some frankfurt school books because if they are still mentioned now they must have some merit. What am I in for?

[Anonymous No.19584453]

We already had this exact thread in October and an anon answered it perfectly well: >>19191450

[Anonymous No.19584472]

>>19579576
Where can I read more about this? I've always been perplexed about how leftism was derailed by deviant intellectuals

[Anonymous No.19584509]

>>19584472
leftism was derailed the second lenin had to bring in the nepmen to save their economy. it was derailed because commmunism sucks and is worse than capitalism. it wasn't a conspiracy, it was real life that did it.

[Anonymous No.19584556]

>>19584472
Not specifically CIA or deviant intellectual-related, but The Strange Death of Marxism.

[Anonymous No.19584558]

>>19584509
if it sucks so much why was the CIA created?

[Anonymous No.19584563]

>>19584556
what if marxism died because it's wrong? marxists cannot fathom this very real possibility.

[Anonymous No.19584569]

>>19584558
to slow down the spread of russian imperialism

[Anonymous No.19584573]

>>19584337
>t. liberal
lol

[Anonymous No.19584592]

>>19584569
ah yeah those damn imperialist commies

[Anonymous No.19584601]

>>19584592
They took over half of Europe lmao. Commies are ridiculous

[Anonymous No.19584611]

>>19584592
dude i know the history of communism, countries in the eastern bloc weren't choosing to become communist because it's so great they became communist because they were being occupied by the fucking red army.

[Anonymous No.19584627]

>>19584052
>>19584289
>>19584380
>COMPANION: Where do you come from, Socrates? And yet I need hardly ask the question, for I know that you have been in chase of the fair Alcibiades. I saw him the day before yesterday; and he had got a beard like a man,–and he is a man, as I may tell you in your ear. But I thought that he was still very charming.
>SOCRATES: What of his beard? Are you not of Homer’s opinion, who says ’Youth is most charming when the beard first appears’? And that is now the charm of Alcibiades.

Socrates bros..

[Anonymous No.19584629]

>>19584601
>>19584611
taken and occupied from whom? lol come on

[Anonymous No.19584639]

>>19584629
What kind of idiotic question is this? Thry conquered and ruled over the countries, that's imperialism

[Anonymous No.19584649]

>>19584240
Fucking children is bad nibba

[Anonymous No.19584653]

What did Socrates mean by this?

[Anonymous No.19584663]

What did Socrates mean by this?

[Anonymous No.19584673]

>>19584210

>So was literally every single one of the Jewish Prophets

tell me you don't understand Christianity or religious history without telling me etc etc

[Anonymous No.19584675]

>>19579097
>alphabet people
.....who?

[Anonymous No.19584684]

Because he was a gay pedophile who based his entire career on the resentment he had for "le Société" because they didn't let him have gay sex with little boys. THAT'S WHY, AND YES LGBT ARE ALL PEDOS.

[Anonymous No.19584701]

Socrates he was a gay pedophile who based his entire career on the resentment he had for "ó dêmos" because they didn't let him have gay sex with little boys. THAT'S WHY, AND YES PHILOSOPHERS ARE ALL PEDOS.

[Anonymous No.19584710]

>>19584558

Weird how capital supported Mandela and the ANC

Weird how capital supported Mugabe

Weird how a bunch of rich western intellectuals showed up to help Mao in person

Weird how every corporation shoveled cash at BLM and the founders were "trained Marxists," some of whom bought multiple luxury homes

the CIA employed Marcuse, who thanked the Rockefeller Foundation in the acknowledgments of One Dimensional Man

Weird how aspects of leftism enjoy institutional support in academia and the corporate world and tech and maintain a social media panopticon and can burn urban cores every few years and yet never mount any real challenge to actual power or even articulate who or what it is

[Anonymous No.19584814]

>>19584710
zzzz

[Anonymous No.19584822]

>>19584675
It's a term Dave Chapelle used to refer to LGBTQ+ people

[Anonymous No.19584840]

>>19584710
The entire concept of capital as some agent or force in society is incoherent memes meant for academics to pat themselves on the back for making abstract theories about.

[Anonymous No.19584851]

>>19584710
t. 14 years old
Capitalism is speculation, every movement that seems in anyway successful will eventually receive funding.

[Anonymous No.19584971]

>>19584176
Illiterate retard

[Anonymous No.19585049]

>>19584627
Yeah but in that dialogue Socrates laughs at Alcibiades for trying to seduce him.

[Anonymous No.19585056]

>>19584851
Absolute smooth brain take

The point isn't that capital will follow any profit, the point is that capital frequently supports leftist actions, despite leftist threats that the bourgeoisie will be eliminated and capital seized by the masses or whatever

And gosh, big shock, China has free trade zones, western leftists can't be bothered to cancel Prime, and cancel culture/CRT/ modern leftist social discourse etc has completely undermined any kind of working class solidarity or meaningful challenges to financial interests in favor of screenshot struggle sessions

[Anonymous No.19585060]

>>19584840
>t. Hasn't outgrown libertarianism

[Anonymous No.19585061]

>>19579097
>"alphabet people"
How about you KYS you bigoted piece of shit? Jesus.

[Anonymous No.19585064]

>>19585060
They're right about more things than they're wrong about. They dont have a clue how power works though. Neither do marxists

[Anonymous No.19585071]

>>19584971
>t. philosophy sophomore

[Anonymous No.19585083]

>>19585056
That is all unrelated to your original point, try to think more clearly.

[Anonymous No.19585087]

>>19585064
Hey Bro what if we were completely atomized consumers and were being demographically replaced and are subject to constant propaganda and mistreatment and exploitation and environmental destruction but it's ok because we're participating in a free market even though this somehow works out perfectly for the people who already had power

This is totally a useful ideology and not a deliberate way to undermine resistance by muddying the waters by equating freedom to limitless capital accumulation without any orientation to social good or nation or community bro trust me John Galt

[Anonymous No.19585092]

>>19585061
nice bait

[Anonymous No.19585099]

>>19585087
I didnt say they were right about everything, I said they were right about more things than they're wrong about. Libertarianism properly implemented would for example get rid of the federal reserve and the income tax, scrap most of the federal government and welfare, restore freedom of association etc.

Now if you want to also close the borders and force women to have babies that's fine and you're right that libertarianism cannot account for those things although even what I said above I bet would raise the birth rate.

[Anonymous No.19585114]

A) Foucault attempted to describe history and power, not to make prescriptive judgments. So if he is right that this is true about sexuality, there's no reason the queers wouldn't use his work: it doesn't preclude investing further into "sexuality" and if anything makes it easier to expand the range of sexuality and gender because it would be fundamentally just a product of power and history.
B) The bedrock of Foucault's Histoire when you get down to it is that beneath all the discourse, history, and power, there is still a universal essence of sensual, fleshly pleasure. He doesn't talk about it openly too often because he knows there is no justification for such an obsession, almost metaphysical, with pleasure and flesh. That pleasure is fundamentally polymorphous and perverse for him. So even if you play language games about what is or isn't "sexuality" and "gender" with a Foucauldian gender activist, they will die on the hill that it is good and nice and okay to get fucked in the ass. Why? Because they say so.

[Anonymous No.19585126]

>>19585099
>muh gold and muh free market
you guys are stuck in the 19th century
and an idealized 19th century for that matter

[Anonymous No.19585137]

>>19585126
You don't necessarily need to use gold, but it would be better than the blatant fraud which our current system is composed of. As for the "free market", do you want to prevent people from working, hiring, buying and selling? Why? I can understand fixing prices for international commerce but within the country why would you want to fuck with the engine of the economy beyond absolute necessity.

[Anonymous No.19585211]

>>19583958
Many such cases.

[Anonymous No.19585224]

>>19584210
>"Gay Voice" was created by Jews in a fucking board-room who wanted to see if they could make their minions talk funny.
Proof?

[Anonymous No.19585230]

>>19580037
They are the fucking same. Who do you think exports LGBT to the rest of the world?

[Anonymous No.19585281]

>>19579097
Surely you’ve read this kino?
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP86S00588R000300380001-5.pdf

[Anonymous No.19585841]

>>19584176
Foucault is literally a philosopher of the Right now.

[Anonymous No.19585845]

>>19584840
Capital is a literal biblical demon with 2 wings - right wing via the invisible hand of the market and the recently opened left-wing of Capital via SJWs and identity onthology individualism.

Marx almost got it, but he coped with describing it via a materialist method.

[Anonymous No.19585955]

>>19580080
>Those are the same.

At this point this is absolutely true. It also conveniently covers the name of the most important shell company they collaborate with, so everything fits.

[Anonymous No.19585964]

>>19579097
He set the mood for the great transgender psyop that would in ensuing decades come.

[Anonymous No.19585965]

>>19584210
>>19585224
>"Gay Voice" was created by Jews
Yes, redpill me on this if you have any evidence.

[Anonymous No.19585991]

>>19584563
marxism is pretty varied and like any other ism not dependent on being right or even working. can you engage with the thread and stop repeating this gotcha nonsense?

[Anonymous No.19585998]

>>19585845
If you a describe an actual demon you get in trouble. Notice how absolutely nothing happens to you when you attack "capital".

[Anonymous No.19587107]

>>19584627
Chad appreciator of the male form.

[Anonymous No.19587117]

>>19584851
Complete nonsense. No hardcore right-wing party ever gets funding, any attention in media and all of them are vilified at every turn. The same cannot be said of the "radical" left.

[Anonymous No.19587267]

>>19579097
I can never tell when people say “alphabet people” if they’re talking about lgbt or the feds. It’s even worse when in reference to Foucault.