Screw translations

[Anonymous No.19572475]

I've decided to embark on the study of French, Spanish, German, Italian and Latin all at once for the purposes of reading. For the past few months, I've given about an hour to each language. I know my chances of success are slim, but at least there are people currently alive who can read all of these fluently. Maybe I'll make a thread about my progress in a few years if the feds haven't shut down 4channel by then. See you on the other side, anons.

[Anonymous No.19572496]

>>19572475
That's dumb anon. Just learn french first. It takes a couple months w ritalin and speaking 30 minutes every day.

[Anonymous No.19572516]

>>19572496
I've already been studying French for about 2 years.

[Anonymous No.19572563]

You will find pretty quickly that Spanish/French/Italian start to gel and you can guess shit in one from instincts you gained by studying another, and vice versa. Once you know 2+ romance languages, any subsequent one you learn is like 70% already learned, feels more like learning a dialect after a while.

Learning Latin is a good idea because it will teach you how to learn languages and parse syntax using grammar.

You can definitely learn all these to a decent degree within a year if you are dedicated and have at least a minor talent for languages, however it may be slightly more strategic to start with just one of the romance languages first, ideally the one you are most motivated to learn (Spanish or Italian would be slightly better than French because French is a little more idiosyncratic as far as the romance family goes but still not that big of a difference). This could be helpful in getting you that initial stock of romance constructions and idioms which you will then be able to map onto the second and third romance language you learn, rather than learning them all at once and only later making the mental connections between their similarities. But you should ultimately do whatever keeps you motivated.

Just don't stop even when you think you've hit a wall. That's the exact point when you have to keep doing that hour a day. Keep saturating yourself in vocabulary and context. If you are sick to death of the textbook then just give yourself a break and read something easier for a while, but do not stop the daily exposure no matter what. Even with a language you have to learn more technically like Latin, exposure is still king. Dickinson college commentaries is good for Latin, also there are some good graded readers
https://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?t=68696

[Anonymous No.19572592]

>>19572475
Not trying to burst your bubble, but consider how much time, discipline, and effort will be required to learn another language (never mind five) with the ostensible purpose of better understanding and appreciating their literature. In the literal thousands of hours lost, you could read much more (including annotations, translator's notes/introductions, supplementary texts on the art of translation) and cover way more literary ground.
>but muh reading the author's own words in their native language
Yeah. Reading translations means you don't get the absolute genuine experience, but being a non-native speaker ALREADY condemns you to this fate, no matter how well you learn the language in adulthood. There is some very profound programming done when you first learn to verbalize and speak in your native language that, arguably, is never fully undone.

[Anonymous No.19572621]

>>19572496
Anon I am unironically on ritilan and just started studying French. This is prophetic.

[Anonymous No.19572641]

>>19572563
Thank you for the advice and the Latin resources, Anon. And I definitely experience what you're talking about with the Romance languages because I knew French and Spanish to a decent degree before starting Italian.
>>19572592
>In the literal thousands of hours lost, you could read much more
I've definitely considered this, but once you get to the advance stages the only thing that your learning consists in is reading. So only a small portion of these hours are actually lost in textbooks.
>>19572592
>but being a non-native speaker ALREADY condemns you to this fate, no matter how well you learn the language in adulthood. There is some very profound programming done when you first learn to verbalize and speak in your native language that, arguably, is never fully undone.
Obviously one can't grasp every nuance, but one can get pretty close and arguably a richer experience because the multilingual reader knows the etymologies of many words and expressions and how they relate to other languages.

[Anonymous No.19572651]

>>19572592
this, you simply can't learn a new language, you can live in a country and speak the language for 30 years and something can still feel "off" about what you say.
The language you learn as a very young child is basically stored in a different part of the brain compared to languages learned later in life.

[Anonymous No.19572652]

>>19572475
Started learning Danish with a similar attitude to the one you displayed on this post. Best of luck to you OP.

[Anonymous No.19572667]

>>19572516
God you blow try ritalin

>>19572621
The synergy of latin languages is amazing. I tried a lot of vocab and it helped but speaking 30 minutes every day is way better.
Disney+ lets you change language and subtitles. God speed anon.

[Anonymous No.19572688]

It takes years to learn a language to a high level and even then you are missing out. It's not just about language, it's also about culture and time. You are not going to get a rich experience in reading something old in a foreign language. Something 100 years old written in a foreign language? Even after thousands of hours you'll struggle to understand it, let alone get any significant nuance.

Language learning for literature is a grandiose fantasy

[Anonymous No.19572746]

>>19572651
This is doomer cope. Most research on second language learning comes off as fake. Not to be trusted.
>>19572688
>It takes years to learn a language to a high level
No one said it didn't.
Learning languages gives you access to the culture and time. You get infinitely more access to texts about the culture and time. Unless you think this is also invalid, in which case there's no reason to set your sights on language learning in particular but rather reading historical texts with the "delusion" of understanding as a whole.

[Anonymous No.19572816]

>>19572746
The midwit rage. You are going to give up and uninstall duolingo next week anyway

[Anonymous No.19572838]

good luck brother. the naysayers are fools, it won't be so hard. many people have learned all of those languages. whenever a language thread comes up on here people give angry, resentful answers

[Anonymous No.19572974]

>>19572838
Thank you, anon.

[Anonymous No.19573183]

>>19572592
>t being a non-native speaker ALREADY condemns you to this fate, no matter how well you learn the language in adulthood.
What about someone like Nabokov? Can native English speakers not get the genuine experience with his books?

[Anonymous No.19573237]

is there something like this for italian/?

[Anonymous No.19573250]

i've been noticing that there's a comic discrepancy in attitude towards language learning between native english speakers - who are the ones going YOU JUST CAN'T, IT'S A PIPE DREAM, GIVE UP AND READ TRANSLATIONS - and the ESLs who raise their eyebrows like "huh? just learn it bro," presumably because what to an american is this near-insurmountable challenge of penetrating another's language and culture to them simply happened without much conscious effort, by osmosis, due to english-language pop culture covering the entire earth like a noxious vapor you cannot help but inhale

[Anonymous No.19573387]

>>19573237
Here's manga
https://www.mangaworld.in/

[Anonymous No.19573964]

>>19573387
A way I practiced my French was to read Manga in English and then translate it to French. I also would just read manga in French too. While this isn't very useful for reading manga, maybe you guys might find this practice helpful.

[Anonymous No.19573988]

>>19573964
Very based

[Anonymous No.19574783]

>>19573988
thanks, I try

[Anonymous No.19574919]

>>19572688
100 years old is piss easy. You mean more like 400 years old.

[Anonymous No.19574989]

LingQ is the Mecca of language learning, memerising vocabulary might be more effective so try both.

[Anonymous No.19575980]

>>19572641
>the only thing that your learning consists in is reading
Yes, much slower, with much more ambiguity due to being intrinsically less familiar with idioms, phrases that subtly modify tone, etc. What I'm suggesting is that in exchange for the relatively small increase in enjoyment of the nuances of the native language, you will forfeit the time to have a much broader and more various reading experience from all world literatures.
>but one can get pretty close and arguably a richer experience
Yes, richer and closer to the author's intentions, but so much more than is captured by a good translation? Seems like you're overstating how much more joy and understanding can be grasped if the work is already worthy of being widely translated in the first place. I could see this being a worthy venture only if you have a passion for obscure, esoteric, or hard-to-find (that is, untranslated) works in a specific language.
But besides that, learning a second or third language is a very good thing to do, so I don't want to discourage it. Start with a second language and report back I guess.
>>19572651
>>19572746
Who's talking about research on second language learning? We're talking about the face that even unilingual people can tell there's just something not quite natural with ESLs and translations and things like that. There's no way to move from one side to the other with 100% success.
>>19573183
English speakers can get the genuine experience of his books because, if I'm not mistaken, his English books were ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN ENGLISH, meaning our understanding is of his ESL composition of the novel, which is its own beast altogether. He happens to be a multilingual master, like Joseph Conrad, so having a master compose in another language is a bit different from having some academic translate the artist into another language.

[Anonymous No.19576010]

>>19572475
Sounds like a great idea, OP

The first language you learn is the most difficult; the second language is about half that, and it continues to drop, according to the people I know who are fluent in 6+ languages

[Anonymous No.19576058]

>>19572475
>>19572563
It may sound idiotic, but this thread and a lot of good advice being given here fills me with motivation to start learning a new language. Thanks anons, retarded ESL appreciates the inspiration

[Anonymous No.19576268]

>>19574989
How much LingQ content is actually available for free? Is it worth a try if you are broke?

[Anonymous No.19576284]

>>19572475
>all at once
You’ll learn none of them. Start with one at a time
>no Russian
NGMI