/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19568206]

Now that the dust has settled, was Borges the greatest writer of the 20th century?

[Anonymous No.19568217]

Also how did he know so fucking much. I read a lot of philosophy as well as a lot on esotericism, but his references are fucking wild. It's like he has an encyclopedic on these topics, but also so many others. And without the internet for just adding a veneer of reference; his have actual depth.

[Anonymous No.19568224]

>>19568217
A lot of them are made-up.

[Anonymous No.19568311]

>>19568206
Kitty wants to play :3

[Anonymous No.19568315]

>>19568217
>>19568224
For those that aren't made-up, the secret is actually pretty simple: go and read things that nobody reads anymore. Who, for example, reads the letters of Richard Watson (this excerpt c.1776) anymore, though there are fine things in them:
>though a philosopher may now and then have stepped beyond the paltry prescript of civil jurisprudence, in his pursuit of virtue; yet the bulk of mankind have ever been contented with that scanty pittance of morality, which enabled them to escape the lash of civil punishment: I call it a scanty pittance; because a man may be intemperate, iniquitous, impious, a thousand ways profligate and a villain, and yet elude the cognizance, and avoid the punishment of civil laws.
Or Edward Young, from his Night-Thoughts (c.1742-1745):
>Who can take Death's portrait true? The tyrant never sat. Our sketch all random strokes, Conjecture all; Close shuts the grave, nor tells one single tale.
Or from William Cullen Bryant's A Forest Hymn (c.1824):
>And from the gray old trunks that high in heaven
>Mingled their mossy boughs, and from the sound
>Of the invisible breath that swayed at once
>All their green tops, stole over him, and bowed
>His spirit...
People here, and people generally, are much too concerned with reading the same shit everyone else has read since forever. Go find a hundred unknown Buddhas on the road, and kill them.

[Anonymous No.19568400]

>>19568206
No, he was.

[Anonymous No.19568407]

Favorite story, bros?

For me it's either "The Double" or "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius."

Actually, I also like "The Two Kings and their two Labyrinths."

[Anonymous No.19568428]

>>19568407
Funes, el memorioso, and El Zahir

[Anonymous No.19568447]

>>19568206
Yes

>>19568407
Lottery of Babylon or The Immortal but it's hard to pick a favorite

[Anonymous No.19568474]

Was in New York recently. Stopped by the Strand and found this while poking through their basement. Pretty excited, I need to get around to reading it.

[Anonymous No.19568485]

>>19568400
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DCYwj4ul1c

[Anonymous No.19568489]

>>19568407
Pierre Menard or the Approach to al'Mutasim

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDY/Ar.iI No.19568561]

LAS DE BOBORGES

FICCIONES, NO FICCIONES:

AMBAS CEROTES.


« 零 »

[Anonymous No.19568601]

>>19568217
His knowledge was Wikipedia tier.

[Anonymous No.19568615]

>>19568601
So shitty, opinionated, and politically charged?

[Anonymous No.19569047]

>>19568206
Not even close. Celine, Musil, Platonov etc. Many better writers.

[Anonymous No.19569054]

>>19569047
>Celine
>better than Borges
"No!"

[Anonymous No.19569109]

>>19569054
He is and it's not even close.

[Anonymous No.19569116]

>>19569109
He's not. Borges is better. Céline is not even in the top 10 French authors of the 20th century, let alone all authors.

[Anonymous No.19569126]

>>19568217
WOWIE THIS BOOK'S GOT A LOT OF REFERENCES... IT REFERS TO THINGS... JUST LIKE FAMILY GUY

[Anonymous No.19569136]

>>19568206
I pronounce it Boar-Jes

[Anonymous No.19569140]

>>19569136
Bohr-hehs.

[Anonymous No.19569155]

>>19569140
Bowr-Gis

[Anonymous No.19569159]

>>19569116
Filtered. Celine is so much better than Borges it's not even funny. Exile trilogy btfos entire Borges catalog. Borges is not even that good to be in top 10 of the century lol. Walser, Broch, Mann, Schulz, Gracq, Hasek etc. all better. Borges is ovrapraised fraud.

[Anonymous No.19569164]

>>19569155
There's no G or J sound. It's like a H.

[Anonymous No.19569165]

>>19569116
>Céline is not even in the top 10 French authors of the 20th century

[Anonymous No.19569168]

>>19569165
Yes.

[Anonymous No.19569169]

>>19569159
seethe

[Anonymous No.19569173]

>>19569164
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPbdQ9znLSU

[Anonymous No.19569175]

>>19569159
Mann, maybe. All the others you listed are inferior to Georgie.

[Anonymous No.19569183]

>>19569173
This is not how's pronounced lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6f2YTvTei0

[Anonymous No.19569185]

>>19569116
Cringe

>>19569159
Based, Hasek is amazing

[Anonymous No.19569200]

George Lewis Borgz

[Anonymous No.19569216]

>>19568206
Cèline.

[Anonymous No.19569222]

>>19569216
Proust is better than Céline. Borges is better than Céline. Eliot is better than Céline. Pound is better than Céline. Jünger is better than Céline.

[Anonymous No.19569285]

>>19568400
Wasn't even the best writer in his social group

[Anonymous No.19569298]

>>19569047
>>19569159
>>19569165
>>19569216
Based Celinechads
>>19569222
Lmao. Delusional.

[Anonymous No.19569303]

>>19569298
>arguing against trips
kys

[Anonymous No.19569320]

I don't really know anything about Borges.

What is his best work? I have read the Book of Sand and the Library of Babel, and while I enjoyed them very much, they were fairly 'light' works.

[Anonymous No.19569329]

>>19569216
>Céline was a better pamphleteer than novelist. - Michel Houellebecq

[Anonymous No.19569332]

>>19568315
based post

[Anonymous No.19569333]

>>19569303
>muh trips
No wonder you revere Borges, retard.

[Anonymous No.19569338]

>>19569329
>Houellebecq
Kek, imagine using him as an argument.

[Anonymous No.19569340]

>>19569333
kekkity checked

[Anonymous No.19569345]

>>19569338
He read all his work in French as a Frenchman. Also he likes Tocqueville, so he's based. Most of the reason this board likes Céline is because his status as an edgy writer, don't lie.

[Anonymous No.19569349]

>>19568407
Far from having read all of them but thus far Deutsches Requiem, Circular Ruins and Library of Babel (duh)

[Anonymous No.19569350]

>>19569345
and they like Wellbeck because uh...

[Anonymous No.19569353]

>>19569345
Have you ever read Houellebecq you fucking idiot? His style is abysmal. Celine was greater stylist than that hack.
Indeed Celine is one of the most acclaimed writers of 20th century because he was edgy. You are braindead. Hang yourself asap.

[Anonymous No.19569358]

>>19569353
>Celine was greater stylist than that hack.
His style is only interesting in his first novel and in his pamphlets.
>Indeed Celine is one of the most acclaimed writers of 20th century because he was edgy
No, I'm talking about this board. Learn to read and maybe you get a better taste.

[Anonymous No.19569360]

>>19569345
>Céline is because his status as an edgy writer, don't lie.
borges' fans in action lol. pathetic

[Anonymous No.19569364]

>>19569358
>t. has never read beyond the first novel
>t. obviously hasn't read it in French and is talking out of his ass
>he hinks that this board's liking of an author is so radically different than why he is acclaimed elsewhere
You are braindamaged, quite literally. Get it checked and get some taste. There are many qualities as to why he is liked here. Lol dude Borges is liked here because people here don't read so they only read 1 of his stories and then say he is the best.

[Anonymous No.19569378]

>>19569364
>There are many qualities as to why he is liked here.
the main one being the fact he loathed jews so /pol/fags get a boner over him
>dude Borges is liked here because people here don't read so they only read 1 of his stories and then say he is the best.
Kind of like Célinefags who have only read Journey and have read him in the modern English translation that translates for example "oeufs à la coque" as "jerks" yet they claim him as the GOAT of the 20th century lmao

[Anonymous No.19569384]

>>19569378
Oh yes, that's what his books are all about.
>muh /pol/ boogeyman
Mental illness.
Are the Borges' translations any better? Kek, they aren't. And even in English Celine is better than both Houellehack and Borges.

[Anonymous No.19569392]

>>19569378
Thread about Celine >>19551411. Find me all the /pol/ talk. You are running with dumb presumptions like the moron you are. It's quite funny though.

[Anonymous No.19569405]

>>19569392
Based

[Anonymous No.19569414]

>>19569136
Wrong, Bore-Hez

[Anonymous No.19569415]

>>19568217
Someone fluent in spanish said it was revealed that Borges's knowledge was mostly surface level. He would read the first bit of something, memorize some choice quotes, and it seemed like he was a bottomless repository of knowledge. I don't know if that's true but it would make him more like, what, an aesthete? It's one of the most based things I ever heard.

[Anonymous No.19569422]

>>19568407
A Weary Man's Utopia

[Anonymous No.19569479]

>>19569415
I have a similar relationship with knowledge. I read enough to feed my own thoughts. I can also quote authors (I just have a knack for remembering them, I guess—I've never purposefully memorized anything in my life) without having ever really become "educated" on them in the way academics do. I actually have a strong distaste for academia in general, since it seems full to the brim with people who conflate the accumulation of knowledge with its purpose. In my opinion, the more you stuff your head with other people's ideas, the more beholden you become—both to the person and the time you've invested in the accumulating. Knowledge, for some, takes on an almost fetishistic quality, which I find personally abhorrent. I pick up what I happen to pick up in my interactions with the written word. I'm ultimately more interested in my own thoughts than dissecting the exact, precise (and ultimately unknowable) meaning behind the words of someone else. I'd rather be creating myself, you know?

[Anonymous No.19569637]

>>19569392
>>19551411
>the wrecking of the cioran guy
holy kek

[Anonymous No.19569751]

>>19569222
>Prout

[Anonymous No.19569859]

>>19568407
Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius and The Library of Babel are my favorites. The Lottery is a contender too though.

[Anonymous No.19569865]

>>19568407
House of Asterion and the Immortal are easily his best

[Anonymous No.19569874]

>>19569415
Maybe this is true. You don't need to be an expert to use the sources the way he does. However, when he does use them he uses them in proper context for his stories, so he at least was getting the jist right, which is something plenty of people who read an author's works cover to cover fail at.

[Anonymous No.19569882]

>>19568407
I really love The Circular Ruins and The Library of Babel, but for some reason The House of Asterion is the one that stuck with me

[Anonymous No.19569894]

>>19568206
Nope, that's Stefano D'Arrigo, sorry.

[Anonymous No.19570091]

>>19569415
Borges disparaged his own erudition from time to time. I remember reading (Seven Conversations) that he considered himself a hedonistic reader first and foremost which led to many idiosyncratic opinions. We mustn't forget that by the time Borges achieved international renown he was already quite old, remarking that his failing memory only contains the remembrance of a few poets and writers, some of which happen to be of an inferior stock. Unfortunately some knowledge of Spanish is needed to truly corroborate these claims. I havent read the post in question but I'd be wary of such claims.

[Anonymous No.19570104]

>>19569159
>Gracq
>better than Borges
Gracq is a hacq only like by pseuds who think purple prose constitutes good literature. I agree with the other writers you mentioned, but I’m having serious doubts about your credibility for simply mentioning this charlatan

[Anonymous No.19570158]

>>19568315
Based.

[Anonymous No.19570168]

>>19570104
5/6 isn't bad

[Anonymous No.19570200]

>>19569136
I'm pretty sure his name is pronounced George Burgess.

[Anonymous No.19570214]

>>19570091
>I havent read the post in question but I'd be wary of such claims.
Why? Can't detach knowledge from talent?

[Anonymous No.19570216]

>>19570200
burgess? burges... BurGer... Burger mmmm

[Anonymous No.19570321]

>>19568561
MALDITO PLEBEYO

[Anonymous No.19570323]

>>19569894
hah, found a soiboy cukboi untranslatedpatronfag in the wild!
GET FUCKED

[Anonymous No.19570334]

>>19568217
>I read a lot of philosophy as well as a lot on esotericism
thiis makes me think you're some guenon/evola pseud, in which case: no you don't

[Anonymous No.19570339]

>>19570334
>thiis
*this

[Anonymous No.19570519]

>>19570214
No it's because the reasoning is spurious or relies on conjecture. He makes little mention of Macedonio Fernández after he finds success leaving the extent of his influence a debatable matter and since we cannot resuscitate the dead for interrogation, the matter cannot be resolved with satisfaction, no matter how true the resolution.
This isn't an indictment of him as a writer but of the manner in which he deploys what he knows.

[Anonymous No.19571671]

>>19568315
very based

[Anonymous No.19571683]

>>19569384
>Are the Borges' translations any better?
Yes
>And even in English Celine is better
lol no

[Anonymous No.19571740]

>>19568407
Death and the Compass, Circular Ruins, The South, Tlön Uqbar

[Anonymous No.19571772]

>>19568206
They say the Borg looked the way he did because he had blood of the Patagonian native tribes

[Anonymous No.19571868]

>never wrote a novel
Pseudlit

[Anonymous No.19571872]

>>19571868
Poems>Short stories>Novels>Essays

[Anonymous No.19571951]

>Pro anglo, anti populist aristocrat.
LMAO, into inspecting chickens you go.

[Anonymous No.19571989]

>>19569320
He basically wrote nothing but short stories, poems, and literary criticism. It's all really good. Just get a bunch of his collections. Start with Ficciones.

[Anonymous No.19571998]

>>19571868
>Homer never wrote a novel

[Anonymous No.19571999]

>>19571989
There's a genealogical theory going around that he was a descendent of the Borgias, who were originally surnamed Borges and were from Spain.

[Anonymous No.19572327]

>>19568407
The Aleph

[Anonymous No.19572364]

>>19568407
Tlon is probably the best from what I've read from Borges. Also the Congress. It's sad that the longer the short story, the better it tends to be. He should've written a novel.

[Anonymous No.19572400]

>>19571872
Poems>Essays>Novels>Short stories

[Anonymous No.19572494]

>>19568206
IDK about 'the best and I never read Borges,' but here's some I enjoyed.

Joseph Conrad
Ford Madox Ford
MP Shiel
Wyndham Lewis
TS Eliot
Ezra Pound
Dunsany
Lovecraft
JD Salinger
Raymond Chandler
Bram Stoker
Malcolm Lowry
Clark Ashton Smith
William Clark Russell
Swinburne
Richard Barham Middleton
Housman
Yeats
Roald Dahl
Graham Greene
Henry James

>>19568315
>go and read things that nobody reads anymore
Kek, basically me. Although it naturally appeals to me!
Check out the Scottish writer John Galt and Bysshe Vanolis.

>>19568400
He's grown on me, I used to hate him.

>>19569047
>Celine
I don't think so, I think he's singular and sort of mundane. He has endless spells of outright bad prose discussing something nobody cares about, and tries to reconcile it with a shocking joke randomly. Death on Credit sort of exposes him when he abandons narrative literature, and I didn't like Journey when I read it several years ago. He also writes ugly to match the ugliness of his content, plus his musicality is non-existant much less sustainable for 500 pages. I think people only like Celine because of his character, and Journey because it's easily interpretable as a leftist book, before he went full-nazi. Maybe he's good in French, but I doubt it, plus my French isn't good enough to try it yet. Something like his spergings in Trifles is fun to read though. I mean he's a lot of fun and I do read him when I'm bored every now and then, but I barely consider it literature.
Musil is great, yes. I read him in English though, so it's hard to give an accurate assessment.

>>19569159
>Exile trilogy
This is just entirely bullet-points in prose, and Celine basically said he only continued writing because he was poor. He is writing glorified blog-series on his life before the internet in all honesty. Have you read his play The Church?
I haven't heard of most of the writers you said, will check them out.

>>19569116
Who would be the top 10? Genet? Robbe-Grillet? I don't know much French literature other than the pillars, like Balzac, Hugo, and Flaubert.

>>19569222
How could you compare Eliot and Pound to Celine kek? I guess Eliot wrote some French poems, but I've only heard they are terrible from those who know French.

>>19569285
Who was? I honestly think Wyndham Lewis and Eliot were better desu. I guess Ford was kind of connected.

>>19569329
I saw that interview, he also praised Camus which is enough of a reason to completely ignore him.

>>19569345
Houllubecq is terrible in all honesty, even if he's sort of right.

>>19569358
>His style is only interesting in his first novel and in his pamphlets.
That's not true desu, even though I shit on him above.

[Anonymous No.19572524]

>>19572494
Why would you even think about judging musicality in a translated work?

[Anonymous No.19572534]

Célinebros… we won…

[Anonymous No.19572564]

>>19572524
I can mostly understand French when written, obviously Celine is a different story, but show me a passage in French that has musicality, it just seems incomprehensible that that book could possibly have that from its English translation. I mean you could see musicality in say Rimbaud through translation.

[Anonymous No.19572579]

>>19572400
No. Short stories are harder to write than novels or essays. Ask Faulkner.

[Anonymous No.19572588]

>>19572494
No, bookum. You can't speak French. You fat American pig. Now shut up.

[Anonymous No.19572602]

>>19571683
Borges' translations are horrible you uneducated subhuman.

[Anonymous No.19572606]

>>19572588
Houellebecq doesn't think too highly of Céline beyond Journey and much prefers Proust. Said Céline wrote better pamphlets than novels. That's the opinion of a writer/poet who's a native French speaker and French himself. Now what?

[Anonymous No.19572614]

>>19572606
He is also a miserable stylist and obviously likes plain stylists e.g. Camus.

[Anonymous No.19572615]

@19572588
I see the creature has come out of his muck to haunt /lit/. Why do you even like Celine?

[Anonymous No.19572632]

>>19572615
Shut up fatso

[Anonymous No.19572642]

@19572632
I'm almost positive you are in a wheel chair or something. I, on the other-hand, do daily exercise and have no apprehensions regarding my physique. You? Well, the less of the truth hinted at the better.

[Anonymous No.19572654]

>>19572614
No, he doesn't just like plain stylists. Quite the contrary, he argues that Céline's writing after Journey became too formalistic, and even shallow in the later years.

[Anonymous No.19572663]

>>19572654
He is a plain stylist himself and bad one at that. Celine is well known for his specific musicality. That's why Journey was revolutionary. I don't what he means by the rest but anything he says is almost irrelevant considering the quality of his output.

[Anonymous No.19572668]

>>19572654
It's two vulgar realists bickering like children, who gives a fuck. Read real literature.

[Anonymous No.19572679]

>>19572642
You said you are fat and the whole thread laughed at you. Look at the American fatso and laugh HAHHAA.

[Anonymous No.19572684]

@19572679
Maybe in your mind this happened, nevertheless I'm through responding to you.

[Anonymous No.19572689]

>>19572684
Fatso fatso run run run if you are capable if not then roll roll roll, jewish american fatso die die die

[Anonymous No.19572702]

(you)

[Anonymous No.19572705]

>>19572663
>I don't what he means by the rest but anything he says is almost irrelevant considering the quality of his output.
He means Céline has only one good book in his view, before falling into shallow formalism. Personally, I think Houellebecq's poetry is far more interesting than any fiction Céline ever wrote, except Journey, perhaps. I must admit the pamphlet where he says Sartre lives in his anus is quite funny. Fuck Sartre. But Céline was at his best when he was seething and writing pamphlets.

[Anonymous No.19572713]

>>19572705
>I think Houellebecq's poetry
post some

[Anonymous No.19572719]

>>19572705
Nah, his later novels are pure hallucinatory greatness, it's like being in a brain of somebody in which a bomb just went off. I haven't read the poetry. He is a bad writer from the novels imo. The writing is very poor. Mostly salvaged by his content.

[Anonymous No.19572968]

>>19572494
you have abhorrent taste. the amount of replies you gave isn't proportional to the quality of content in your post, which is extremely stupid and pathetic

[Anonymous No.19572983]

@19572968
What writers do you like?

[Anonymous No.19573601]

From the 20th century, and from the few writers I know, I think only Musil, Grossman and Proust are close to Borges.
Borges was so innovative. The way he touches every aspect of the world he created in just a few pages is so unique, now put this together with his erudition and good writing to get the whole thing.
I saw some people above praising Céline, and he's really good, but maybe he works better in french.

[Anonymous No.19573639]

>>19572968
Kek

[Anonymous No.19573647]

>>19569415
literally what i do to appear smart

[Anonymous No.19573670]

>It seems like my superiority has led to some controversy

[Anonymous No.19574268]

>>19572494
What a retard....

[Anonymous No.19574546]

>>19568407
the congress for sure

[Anonymous No.19574560]

>>19569333
holy based trips of the holy based

[Anonymous No.19574601]

Borges is the dumbest retard of all time, and it's most apparent when you read his nonfiction. He obfuscates his weak to nonexistent arguments with overwrought prose and gratuitous references. Just read "When Fiction Lives in Fiction" as an example: reference after reference for like two pages, then a two sentence paragraph tacked on at the end which serves as a "thesis." Or his essay "I a Jew" with its laughable reference to Mendelssohn. Total hack. Ought to be forgotten.

[Anonymous No.19574636]

>>19574601
>Borges is the dumbest retard of all time
Really? Post some of your work.

[Anonymous No.19574665]

>>19574636
Ah, the intellect of the Borges fan at full force
Let me spell it out for you
Critique != supposition of superiority
Nor does it mean we operate on the same plane for comparison to be made
Borges is the dumbest retard of letters, but I'm no writer, so, in short, we aren't running the same race

[Anonymous No.19574705]

>>19574665
Surely, if he's the dumbest retard of all time, it should require next to no effort for you to produce something better. Go on, prove it to us.

[Anonymous No.19574716]

>>19574705
Fine
I admit it
I exaggerated
He's the second dumbest retard of all time. And you're the first
Given that you're the dumbest, I see no need to prove a thing to you. You simply don't have the mental faculties to provide fair judgement

[Anonymous No.19574718]

>>19574665
who is this ?

[Anonymous No.19574733]

>>19574716
Well, if your intention was to make me feel a mélange of mild disgust and pity for you, you succeeded.
Hope you get over your childhood trauma or whatever.

[Anonymous No.19574736]

>>19574718
Agatha
ThreemilkT
My lucid dream wife

[Anonymous No.19574743]

>>19574736
good taste anon just seems a little autistic

[Anonymous No.19574750]

>>19574743
Her and I both

[Anonymous No.19574841]

>>19574601
>filtered by one of the most accessible writers of the 20th century
ngmi

[Anonymous No.19575270]

>>19574841
Accessible doesn't mean good.

[Anonymous No.19575511]

>>19574601
Oh no, a blind man made a bibliographical mistake! The horror!

[Anonymous No.19575668]

>>19570104
Always a gracq-hater here. Amazing.

[Anonymous No.19575675]

>>19574601
He pretty much is just a purveyor of references, I think you've expressed why I don't like him better than I could.

[Anonymous No.19576367]

>>19575270
no, but it means you're ngmi at all

[Anonymous No.19576412]

>>19568206
What dust to you tards refer to? Lmao. Learn new phrases.

[Anonymous No.19576516]

>>19568407
I'm a basic bitch, so I love Menard, Funes and the Library. My favourite essay is the one on Kafka

[Anonymous No.19576946]

https://mubi.com/lists/films-discussed-by-jorge-luis-borges

kino taste

[Anonymous No.19577701]

>>19575511
>bibliographical mistake
??
When did I complain about that?

[Anonymous No.19579125]

>>19569126
Kek this

[Anonymous No.19579250]

A Itália declarou estado de emergência no início da pandemia e deveria acabar esse mês, mas eles resolveram manter o negócio até março de 2022 por causa do aumento de casos.
Isso vai continuar para sempre?

[Anonymous No.19580716]

>>19568407
The one about the fountain of youth with the troglodytes.