/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19561350]

> "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39)
We know that an emphasis on verses like this have led to Christianity becoming an ascetic and pacifist religion. Christianity can blame its loss of political relevance to the overemphasis by its believers on mysticism.

>"And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not." (2:154)
>"And those who believe in Allah and His messengers- they are the Sincere (lovers of Truth), and the witnesses (who testify) [martyrs], in the eyes of their Lord: They shall have their Reward and their Light. But those who reject Allah and deny Our Signs,- they are the Companions of Hell-Fire." (57:19)
We know that such verses in the Qur'an are what give Muslims their eagerness to face death, because in a metaphysical sense, martyrdom is not death. Even today, these verses define the Muslim psyche.

So what verses are there in the Hebrew Bible that have led to Jews becoming the way that they are? By this I mean that they are usurers, pornographers, and general corrupters of society. Can we trace this malevolence to any verses within the Hebrew texts?

[Anonymous No.19562317]

>>19561350
Deuteronomy 15:6
For the LORD your God will bless you as he has promised, and you will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. You will rule over many nations but none will rule over you.
Christian martyrdom is a thing too. We do it for good sacrificing ourselves for the truth of Jesus. Muslims do it to kill innocents. The kingdom of God is not of this world.

[Anonymous No.19562410]

>>19562317
And you quote from a book written by and for Jews.

[Anonymous No.19562436]

>>19561350
Christianity isn't a pacifistic religion.

[Anonymous No.19562462]

>>19561350
blessed are the meek is the most misrepresented line.
meek referred to meeked or tamed wild horses

[Anonymous No.19562597]

>>19562436
I agree it wasn't intended to be, but nobody can deny that the masses came to understand it in that way.

[Anonymous No.19562683]

>>19562317
Christian martyrdom and Islamic martyrdom are exactly the same, we worship the same God after all, but you seem to have prejudice

[Anonymous No.19562697]

>>19561350
>We know that an emphasis on verses like this have led to Christianity becoming an ascetic and pacifist religion. Christianity can blame its loss of political relevance to the overemphasis by its believers on mysticism.
No it lost its relevance because it got culturally refuted

[Anonymous No.19562708]

>>19562697
How so?

[Anonymous No.19562816]

>>19562683
Christianity: Jesus is God
Islam: Jesus isn't God

The two conceptions of God totally contradict each other, they aren't describing the same God.

[Anonymous No.19562886]

>>19562436
Christianity is a pacifist religion, but it is not because of pacifism that Christianity fell. Without this need for comfort, to consume goods, to practice hedonism, none of the absolute triumph of evil we are experiencing today would have happened. Christianity isn't just about "pacifism" (which does not exclude defending yourself and your dear ones) but also giving up on the material world. What is it in the OP that is directed toward this? Oil, media, entertainment, the resources gained from warfare are all directed toward the production of comforts, which a good Christian would shun.

[Anonymous No.19562911]

What I mean to say is that people often lament that "the media", "pornography", "the industries" are owned by evil people, but how could it possibly not be this way? Only evil men could be at the helm of a society, and an economy for this society, founded entirely on material pleasures, comforts, and so on. Of course "evil people" own the media. Do you think "good" media, maintained as healthy as it is today, given the same resources it is given today, developed to the state it is developed today, could ever have possibly happened through the efforts of good people? There is a very good reason why every single time a good person invents something with the best of intentions, that inventor will often be the last good person involved in the development of that idea.

[Anonymous No.19562933]

Listen, a noise on the mountains,
like that of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together!
The Lord Almighty is mustering
an army for war.
They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens—
the Lord and the weapons of his wrath—
to destroy the whole country.

Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.[a]
Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every heart will melt with fear.
Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.

See, the day of the Lord is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
I will make people scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.

[Anonymous No.19563005]

>>19562816
But what you call the Father, we worship as well, and only He do we worship. And unlike the Jews, we do indeed believe Jesus (peace be upon him) is the Messiah.

[Anonymous No.19563033]

>>19562886
I think you've described Christianity well, and that is why I see it as flawed, because it is over otherworldly in inclination. For example, Hinduism has a path for people to be monks and leave this world, but it also has Karma Yoga, which is the way of action, and it is totally equal to the path of those who retreat from this world. It is not materialistic, but it forces you to live in this world justly, never becoming attached to this world, but not retreating from it either. Islam can also be described this way, as it has both exoteric and esoteric aspects.

You can compare it to Plato's cave. Christian mysticism is very beautiful, but to live like a hermit would be to leave the cave and stay in the outside world, but the most just thing is to open your heart to God and keep your heart inclined towards him, while serving him in this world, ie going back into the cave. We should never have used the excuse of mysticism to allow the wicked to take control of this world.

[Anonymous No.19563039]

Boy, those sure are some words, huh?

[Anonymous No.19563051]

>>19563005
You don't believe Jesus is the Messiah Muhammadean scum, if you did you would believe his words rather than the childish drawl of your faithless prophet.

[Anonymous No.19563084]

>>19563033
>that is why I see it as flawed, because it is over otherworldly in inclination.
You might pose this criticism against Buddhism, where salvation is 100% unattainable in one's life (yes, you have other reincarnations to accomplish Nirvana, but they're beyond your control). Beyond the purely doctrinal reasoning, Buddhism is just not practiceable. Letting go of every and all attachment, even to Buddhahood itself, only results in nihilism. On the other hand Christianity does not tell you to mortify yourself for the sake of mortification, but the mortification of the passions is in function of loving one another, giving to others, and so on. You have to very much desire to do good upon others, to love one another. In Buddhism this love for Christ and mankind would be a "passion" that you need to get rid of. Christianity is a very practical religion, just one that does not - in theory - value material comforts, which are the foundation of our modern society that today we love to complain about for being headed by evil men. It couldn't be any other way.

[Anonymous No.19563089]

>>19561350
Hate is an ugly color on you friend

[Anonymous No.19563108]

>>19563084
Oh and one might say,
>But aren't today's comforts just a product of Christian good-will?
They are not. Everything we have built to this day, from glorious art, to our medical advancements, to our technological achievements, every single thing is founded on torture, slavery, destruction, exortion, cruelty, and on top of all deceit. Every single ugly un-Christian aspect of our glorious achiement has been dutifully hidden under the carpet, and people have become so detached and desensitized to this hidden ugliness that they refuse to recognize it. There is no possible way that a truly Christian world can also have the same technology and level of production as we have today, and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.19563125]

>>19563084
Yes I see that Christianity is several degrees above Buddhism. But my criticism still stands. In Karma Yoga for instance, everything is about work. Doing work, doing your duties, behaving justly, and most importantly, sacrificing the fruits of your labour to God is how you burn your Karma and serve the Lord. Nobody gets to say, let me leave economic production to the unscrupulous. A godly man may not profit as much as those who are immoral, but it his duty to strive nonetheless. To do so is not to value material comforts, so long as he sacrifices the fruits of his labour.

[Anonymous No.19563229]

>>19563125
I'm not versed in Hinduism but this idea of works is pretty much the same as Christianity professes, unless you're talking about Sola Fide Protestantism, by which you can act pretty much however you fancy and shape Christianity to your opinions, which of course you will believe in very much.
There are clear directives on Christian conduct in the Bible. You could say that the aspect of penance of Christianity (as in, God is merciful and forgives sinners) condones evildoers and erases the need to actively do good works (after all, you will be saved), on the contrary it is not open to interpretation that good will and a change of focus in one's life is essential to salvation. Jesus states that you have to give up your worldly attachments in order to follow him,
>"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
>He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
>Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
>The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
>Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
>But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
>Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
>And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
>When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
>But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Mat 19:17-26
The reason why everyone was "astonished" here is that being rich was for the Jews a sign of God's good favor (pretty much like the "Prosperity Gospel" of Americans). Many of these episodes in Jesus' preaching are focused on removing people from being concerned on their standing - even religious according to ritual and law - and caring instead about fulfilling other people's needs. He calls over and over to something that even in Jewish canon it is essential: that you have to do God's will beyond the letter of the Law. This is why he clashed so often with the Pharisees.

[Anonymous No.19563785]

>>19563229
>Only evil men could be at the helm of a society
In that case, how can you ever say things like "Only evil men could be at the helm of a society"? That's literally the point I'm trying to make, that Christians have given up on achieving something in this world and look only towards the afterlife

[Anonymous No.19563921]

>>19563785
Why did you cut the quote in half? Not this society, yes.
Christians have stopped being Christian, or they would have rejected eveything on which our modern evil supremacy is built on. Industrialization is inherently evil; people accepted it out of comfort when its evil were not apparent or known, and accepted it once again later on, out of indolence.
Back to the original argument, it was not Christianity that created this situation, but the process of leaving Christianity.

[Anonymous No.19564024]

>>19562911
>There is a very good reason why every single time a good person invents something with the best of intentions, that inventor will often be the last good person involved in the development of that idea.
Tragically true.
I see the only clear path one built and maintained by its own users not something provided as a parasitic service.

[Anonymous No.19564042]

>>19563005
You worship a mass murdering child molesting warlord and liar as the ideal muslim to love and emulate?

[Anonymous No.19564061]

>>19563921
This does chime quite strongly with the message of Yuri Bezmenov on how to avoid ideological subversion.

[Anonymous No.19564096]

>>19562462
The best demonstration for this is how of all people Moses is described as being ‘meek’ in Numbers 12:3, the meekest of all men, yet Moses himself was an absolute fanatic who led the Israelites out of Egypt, demanded the deaths of 3,000+ idolators who worshiped the golden calf and approached God ontop of Mt. Sinai. This is what Biblical meekness is.

[Anonymous No.19564131]

>>19563921
My point is that the process of leaving Christianity could only commence because of people's interpretation of Christianity as something ascetic and otherworldly. Nobody will disagree that this society is built around sin and it's economy functions to finance its depravity. But whereas you seem to shun this society, I say that its the duty of a God-fearing man to wrest society out of the hands of Satan and create a virtuous world. In Islam, they would call that striving in the path of Allah. In Hinduism, that would be called Karma Yoga. I know this is present in Christianity as well, but it is not emphasized. You yourself say:
>" Christianity isn't just about "pacifism" (which does not exclude defending yourself and your dear ones) but also giving up on the material world."
It seems that apart from defending yourself and your near ones, you've decided you have no duties to this world, and that's my criticism of Christianity. By the way, I don't think that's the true Christianity, it just happens that the teachings of Christ, peace be upon him, were corrupted. After all, Christ himself, peace be upon him said "I bring not peace but a sword."

[Anonymous No.19564139]

>>19564096
Well that's the Old Testament, very different in tone to the New Testament

[Anonymous No.19564228]

>>19564139
They’re in perfect continuity.

[Anonymous No.19564231]

>>19564096
Yes, and yet the meek line has led to millions of passive christians idolising inaction and submissiveness.
I just came across another translation problem mentioned in a different thread, in Mathew 11:8 the use of fine or soft clothing referred to transvestite pagan prostitutes because they used the word malakos which means "effeminate"

yet the common translation and subsequent interpretation are way off. see here
NIV
>8 If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings' palaces
KJV at least uses raiment implying feminine clothes
>8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

How much original meaning is hidden by translation elsewhere?

[Anonymous No.19564246]

>>19564139
Is it possible Moses was called meek in reference to his Lord? Because one could easily be wholly submissive to the Lord while remaining the strongest among men

[Anonymous No.19564247]

>>19561350
"50 trilion"

So they have more PBI than the 9 largest economies in the world combined?

[Anonymous No.19564249]

>>19563051
when will you realize you have been scammed by paul the retard along with the rest of christendom? you are so easily fooled. btw i have a bridge to sell you.

[Anonymous No.19564250]

>>19564246
Essentially:
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/nootherfoundation/the-beatitudes-blessed-are-the-meek-for-they-shall-inherit-the-earth/

[Anonymous No.19564258]

>All we need is a single person to save us from the elites
>No one wants to be the savior
>"Why don't you be the savior?"
>"Because I'm not/can't be the savior"
Messiah dilemma in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.19564259]

>>19564247
Anything is possible with derivatives. Look at the 2008 financial crisis, the market for mortgage derivatives was several trillion times bigger than the housing market itself

[Anonymous No.19564305]

>>19564246
https://www.warriorpriest.net/blog/2018/5/2/blessed-are-the-war-horses-on-christian-meekness

[Anonymous No.19564323]

>>19564131
>leaving Christianity could only commence because of people's interpretation of Christianity as something ascetic and otherworldly
Keeping one's thoughts straight takes actual effort, both in the same individual and through the generations. People knew what Christianity meant, starting from the Americans who had a Bible in every home. That passage I quoted is very well known to Christians, and it can't be interpreted creatively. Yet it was forgotten as the comforts and the promise of industry appeared. People were weak.

[Anonymous No.19564326]

Christianity is the religion for unmoved movers.

[Anonymous No.19564336]

>>19564323
Not him. Which passage did you mean? I'm struggling to follow it back.

[Anonymous No.19564366]

>>19562436
No sorry sweetie, it is. It explicitely states to not resist evil. All of these attempts to turn Christianity into a warrior religion are little more than reactionary cope retcons

[Anonymous No.19564393]

>>19562708
None of the supposed Christians actually behave like Christians. They dn't feed the hungry, they don't clothe the naked, they don't give up their possessions and their current saint is an orange clown who is pretty much the opposite of everythibg they claim to stand for. Christianity became little more than an excuse to never take any kind of responsibility for your own beliefs (its all because of Satan/atheists/jews) and is now honestly little more than a stick to beat people with.

Christianity is dead, and Christians themselves killed it

[Anonymous No.19564397]

>>19561350
>So what verses are there in the Hebrew Bible that have led to Jews becoming the way that they are?

Wrong book/tradition. Look at the Talmud and things will become abundantly clear to you.

[Anonymous No.19564410]

>>19564397
Any verses/chapters in particular?

[Anonymous No.19564419]

>>19564397
>christian nazis
>coping

Pick two, always

[Anonymous No.19564461]

>>19564393
>American Protestants are Christians
2/10 mmr

[Anonymous No.19564477]

>>19564366
History paints a different picture of real warrior christians empowered by their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.19564621]

>>19564477
And usually overpowered by their enemies, unless they had to fight a bunch of natives with sticks

[Anonymous No.19564703]

>>19562436
It's a religion that claims non violence is ideal. Christians are supposed to overcome their enemies without harming or killing them. Judgement belongs to the Lord. We live in a fallen world, so it is not always possible to avoid violence, but it nevertheless remains inherently sinful, and Christian soldiers were originally called to repent even if they slew their enemies while fighting for a cause that was ostensibly righteous.

[Anonymous No.19564891]

>>19564131
>you've decided you have no duties to this world, and that's my criticism of Christianity. By the way, I don't think that's the true Christianity
You seem to ignore everything I have said, but you're just a LARPer it seems.

[Anonymous No.19564900]

>>19564336
>>19563229
sorry

[Anonymous No.19564914]

>>19562410
>And you quote from a book written by and for Jews.
The Bible is antisemitic. It constantly portrays the Jews as being greedy and evil, and when a rogue Jew advocates for charity and tolerance of Gentiles the Jewish elites torture him to desth.

[Anonymous No.19564929]

>>19561350
That's the issue with current Christianity.
It does not advocate for pacifism and inaction, but a superficial reading of verses like the one you quoted(along with not understanding what words like "meek" truly mean in that context) lets people be convinced of that, and the terrible preachers who want nothing but cattle also explain it so.

[Anonymous No.19564939]

>>19564914
>being antisemitic
>while consider a book that contains the whole Torah as the core text of your life

There will never be a bigger cope than Christian antisemitism. Imagine hating the jews while worshipping a rabbi as a literal god. They should just refer to Christianity as cognitive dissonance: the religion

[Anonymous No.19565092]

>>19561350
>So what verses are there in the Hebrew Bible that have led to Jews becoming the way that they are? By this I mean that they are usurers, pornographers, and general corrupters of society. Can we trace this malevolence to any verses within the Hebrew texts?
Read the "Song of Moses" in Deut 31. God prophesies that Hebrews will abandon him. Then read the book of Ezra, which took place post-exile of Babylon. Ezra had a breakdown because he had to accept that all the evil came upon them not as a trial but because they were in sin as they had always been. It was incredibly painful for him to accept Jerusalem collapsed the century before for reason of evil and corruption. Note that he also compiled the histories Kings and Chronicles, which is rife with examples of corruption, blackmail and devilworship spreading outside their cities.

[Anonymous No.19565360]

>>19564703
Reminds me a little of jains.

[Anonymous No.19565886]

>>19564939
The Old Testament is an anti-Semitic document. Anyone who has read it without the /pol/ goggles on realizes this

[Anonymous No.19565946]

>>19565886
This. So many anons dont even know the context of the OT according to the NT. Which verse was it about the "scriptures" being a kind of teacher, and the ultimate lesson is humans are fallen and following the Law cannot save them? What about how Paul withstood Peter to the face yelling at him, insisting that Gentiles didnt need the Law including circumcision? It's like people dont even read what they are rejecting and act like they understand it.

[Anonymous No.19566004]

>>19563005
But you don't think he was divine and you don't think he died on the cross (???) What gives Mohammad?

[Anonymous No.19566097]

>>19565946
>>19565886
Alright I guess I ought to finally read the bible, which translation whould I get?

[Anonymous No.19566306]

>>19566097
KJV authorized. Get one WITHOUT interpretation. You read it enough and you will get it. Start with John, then read the rest of the New Testament and then the other gospels sprinkled between. I encourage to read the OT later for context, but if you reread it lean toward the NT which is less stories and more big picture.

[Anonymous No.19566948]

>>19562683
They are antithetical. Christian martyrs die for the Truth of self sacrificial love. Muslim suicide bombers kill innocents amd themselves for the honor of power hungry warlords driven by Satan.
We do not worship the same God. Our God is almighty and became man, the muslim God is Satan dressed up as Gabriel.

[Anonymous No.19567020]

>>19566948
I listened to a psychotherapist called Jerry Marzinsky.
He described paranoid schizophrenia and its causes demonic voices and possession, some of what he describes seems remarkably similar to what I've heard about Mohammed.

[Anonymous No.19567890]

>>19564891
Your words contradict eachother. One the one hand you say that Christians have their duty, on the other hand, you are quoted as saying "Christianity is about giving up on the material world."

[Anonymous No.19568003]

>>19564621
>And usually overpowered by their enemies,
Lol what a fucking retard, how little do you know about history?

[Anonymous No.19568012]

>>19564703
>but it nevertheless remains inherently sinful,
Heresy, no where in the Bible is this stated and at no point in time have Christians believed this.

[Anonymous No.19569690]

[Anonymous No.19569767]

>>19564326
what saint is this? can someone send the original pic?

[Anonymous No.19571428]

>>19565946
>>19565886
Keep coping, it's all right. I'm sure someday you'll be able to reconcile your hatred for the exact group of people your saviour came from, it will totally happen

[Anonymous No.19571595]

>>19561350
this quote is about having higher consciousness. modern pagans and pseudo masculine men like to subject it as a proof of christian weakness and lameness. while in fact its the opposite. if somebody smites you on a cheek, thats because they cant help themselves. they are angry, unfulfilled, with whole set of complexes eating them. they are in low spirit, in a fallen state you could say, but still capable of salvation, they just cant help themselves. by turning the other cheek you will provoke them, break the spell of dogma for a moment and maybe open their eyes to the being of something else higher. By that you also show that you are whole and you cant get angry, you are in an elevated spirit, not giving up to emotions like a woman, not engulfed in shallowness like pride. If he strikes another cheek, he is a fool and a christian will feel sorry for him for he wont be saved. he recognizes people as souls, just like him. anyways im not christian, thats just how i understand this.