/wg/ - Writing Genera

[Anonymous No.19540040]

Unnecessary Rape Edition

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges
>Links: https://pastebin.com/i4RLYJEx

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-form

Last Thread
>>19524302

[Anonymous No.19540050]

>>19540040
Is that a WW2 nazi banner?

[Anonymous No.19540054]

>>19540050
Propaganda poster, ya

[Anonymous No.19540117]

>>19540040
>Unnecessary Rape
What rape is necessary?

[Anonymous No.19540189]

>>19540117
The fun kind.

[Anonymous No.19540262]

>>19540117
The one in The Marquise of O.

Speaking as someone that nobody would call a feminist, I think most rape scene writers are biting off more than they can chew. It's a more serious act than they understand, and it makes them look juvenile.

[Anonymous No.19540269]

>>19540262
>>19540189
>>19540117
Most sexual violence in the books is written by female authors anyway. Makes you really think.

[Anonymous No.19540351]

>>19540269
>Makes you really think
No not really. You being an ESL faggot aside, I know what you are implying and you are not clever. Women write about sexual violence more because they are the gender that experiences sexual violence the most. Go ahead and make the conjecture. Most people within the "female" category experience at least some form of sexual violence in their life. There is a very simple logical connection between those experiences and what they then choose to write about.

[Anonymous No.19540355]

>>19540040
You couldn't have made a shittier thread OP

[Anonymous No.19540360]

>>19540351
Embarrassing bait.

[Anonymous No.19540370]

>>19540360
On your part faggot.

[Anonymous No.19540382]

>>19540040
it wasnt just the russians. my oma said the allies took "everything" when they came into austria

[Anonymous No.19540389]

>>19540370
I'm not even the ESL you responded to, I'm just embarrassed on your behalf.
>Most people within the "female" category experience at least some form of sexual violence in their life.
>"female" category
Honestly anon? You don't think that was a little too much?

[Anonymous No.19540420]

@19540262
@19540351
No (you) from me. People write about murder all the time--people who have never murdered or been murdered. Sometimes it's the focal point of a story, while other times it's a transitional device or even a joke. No one pretends to get offended or tells these people it's "not their place" to write about it.

That's all you need to know about this performative outrage from people with no morals who literally kill and genitally mutilate children.

[Anonymous No.19540493]

>>19540420
I think it's because someone who's a victim of murder can't be offended by a story because they're dead, but a victim of rape can, so it's a more sensitive subject.

[Anonymous No.19540495]

>>19540420
No one ITT said anything about it being "not their place" to write about it. You are projecting heavily.


>That's all you need to know about this performative outrage from people with no morals who literally kill and genitally mutilate children.
There has been no outrage and no mention of trannies in the entire thread. RENT FREE.

[Anonymous No.19540524]

>>19540389
>Honestly anon? You don't think that was a little too much?
No I don't. There is no woke political impication behind my words. I simply say "people within X category" and not "women" so as to semantically imply that the behavioral patterns I speak of concern all people, not women specifically. Problem, nigger?

[Anonymous No.19540537]

>>19540351
nah it's because they enjoy it. ur girlfriend never asked for rapeplay?

[Anonymous No.19540544]

>>19540537
>Fantasy is reality

[Anonymous No.19540546]

>>19540524
I'm sure you think that's a great save but even /v/ would laugh you out for something so obvious.
This is a writing general, we should have the best bait. Do better next time anon.

[Anonymous No.19540564]

A man discovers his cock is above average and this gives him the confidence boost to pursue his wildest dreams.

[Anonymous No.19540567]

>>19540546
Cocи хyй

[Anonymous No.19540580]

>>19540546
>/v/ would laugh you out
Muh social validation argument, pathetic Maslow's hammer for the niggers of rhetoric. That's a woman thing to do, by the way. Are you a woman?

[Anonymous No.19540661]

>>19540580
I don’t appreciate your presumption of the gender binary. I am a gender fluid omnisexual.

[Anonymous No.19540682]

now these are the quality OP's we need.
doing the lord's work

[Anonymous No.19540688]

>>19540661
Very good. You are valid.

[Anonymous No.19540697]

>>19540544
why would they fantasize something sooo, so bad? they like it.
I do like that too. great sex.

[Anonymous No.19540719]

>>19540546
Imagine knowing what /v/ thinks about anything

[Anonymous No.19540722]

>>19540269
rape is women's number one sexual fantasy by a country mile
ofc the idea of some viral, attractive man just taking what he wants is different than the reality of what occurs in a good number of cases
most women - not all, but most - are smart enough to realize that. but young women as a group are generally dumber than the rest

[Anonymous No.19540728]

>>19540688
I feel seen and heard.

[Anonymous No.19540736]

>>19540420
>people with no morals who literally kill and genitally mutilate children
whoa, cool it with the antisemitism

[Anonymous No.19540775]

What’s the point? Nobody here rapes.

[Anonymous No.19540833]

>>19540775
That's what you think.

[Anonymous No.19540925]

>>19540117
Evolution thinks it's a good idea, so it's necessary.

[Anonymous No.19540981]

>>19540775
The jokes is about rape scenes in books not real life

[Anonymous No.19540985]

>>19540925
Well evolution has a problem with homosexuality, so obviously evolution is bigoted and anti science so it should be ignored.

[Anonymous No.19541095]

For those who publish serially, describe your experience? Do you make anything of note off of it? Do you write every day? What's the whole kaboodle like, is it as stressful as it looks?

[Anonymous No.19541105]

terrible OP picture for a terrible general

[Anonymous No.19541267]

>>19541105
It still slightly better than any general on /ic/.

[Anonymous No.19541286]

>>19541095
When I was writing on RR, I wrote every day, but with editing, I published a chapter twice every week. I never monetized it, but if I got on front page and kept writing for longer, I'd probably get some patreons or whatever.

As for stress, it's happens when you try to force yourself and negative reinforcement happens. If you enjoy your story, you also enjoy writing it. Having a notebook/notes program to write down a scene you just though about also helps.

[Anonymous No.19541293]

>>19541267
But those general actually do something instead of larping like in /wg/

[Anonymous No.19541303]

>>19541286
I think I favor serialization after a story is fully complete and edited. That way I'm not rushing to put out a not fully tweaked story that has already been distilled several times

[Anonymous No.19541313]

>>19541303
Fair enough, but you also missing the live feedback when the story is complete before release.

[Anonymous No.19541435]

>>19541095
I drafted like 200k before I started posting mine. I'm currently at 272k drafted, 190ish edited and released. I added like 6-7 chapters so far in the middle based on expanding certain scenes or some extra stuff I added. I highly, highly recommend having a big backlog because being forced to get it out every week can be stressful, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Releasing serially allows me to edit in small enough chunks in an appropriate amount of time. Initial drafting I averaged like 1500 words a day. I wrote basically every day. Now with editing and releasing I'm not writing every day, work also gets in the way. Which sucks, I loved being in the zone drafting, I find drafting much more fun than editing, but the story really takes shape when you edit.

I'm almost done drafting the whole story, I probably have like 25-30k to go, and then I'll split my focus on editing the current story and starting the sequel. The sequel is going to have a different character as the MC so I need to get her inner voice down which will be hit or miss when starting. Which is expected. In this first one I didn't really have the MC's voice down 100% for at least 5-10 chapters, but eventually I got it, and then edited the starting chapters to reflect it.

As far as stress, I will say this: the time that I'm most looking forward to in the future is when I'm going to be drafting the sequel and my current project is fully released and I'm not worrying about editing and weekly releases.

Regarding monetizing I'm going to put the first one on kindle once I've started releasing the sequel serially for at least like a month or so. I didn't initially write the story to make money, I wrote it because I enjoyed writing it, but once its complete I don't see why I wouldn't put it on a different platform for new readers to see and also have the ability to make some income at the same time.

[Anonymous No.19541440]

>>19540722

The brutal truth is that often the woman becomes attracted to the rapist or is ambivalent after the fact. Although of course the expected response of trauma and seeking justice is also common. But women are much more fucked in the head than you think. They are attracted to sexual aggression in men they perceive as possible suitors, not being "enough of an animal" is a common problem intelligent men have when it comes to women

[Anonymous No.19541448]

>>19540722
do you mean "virile"?

[Anonymous No.19541454]

>>19540564

I have an above average cock and it doesn't motivate me at all

[Anonymous No.19541458]

>>19541293
All they do is crab and tell people not to draw.

[Anonymous No.19541565]

Great writing discussion going on ITT you fucking faggots

[Anonymous No.19541594]

>>19540040
is poetry nice to get into?
especially if i don't want to be one of these angsty free-versers?

[Anonymous No.19541672]

>>19541565
Writing discussion is forbidden in these threads, newfag. You’re supposed to look up answers to any questions you may have.

[Anonymous No.19541680]

>>19541594
What is one even supposed to answer to this question lmao the absolute state of /lit/. “Poetry” is a very broad term and whether it is “nice to get into” cannot be abstractly expressed as “yes” or “no” without any context whatsoever

[Anonymous No.19541683]

>>19541435
and like, patrons?

[Anonymous No.19541696]

>>19541680
is it majoritarily stuck-up authors pretending to do something deep and critics pretending to get it, or actually good, as what are considered the "masterpieces" are?

[Anonymous No.19541700]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lG1kU46xhbOtBK4cyygybXd74mo8802RZaCkntQPAqs/edit

It's big, but that's so you can tell me how far you got before you got bored.
Think it could do damage on RR? It's a first draft so this is subject to major editing, but yeah.

[Anonymous No.19541750]

>>19541313
I did some publishing on FictionPress back in the early 2010s and looking back on it, I got a lot out of interacting with an audience, building rapport with other writers, and getting reviews. I remember posting in every authors note (A/N:) that I wanted my readers to leave a review, even if it was just to say nice read or bad read. I remember being obsessed with view counts and watching carefully which of my stories were more popular than others. I do sort of miss that and maybe my current view of publishing has warped my perspective on serial publishing, especially if done solely for fun. For profit, you're going to be fighting a tough battle.

[Anonymous No.19541783]

>>19540564
My penis is above average and all it does is make me feel better about myself for about a few minutes.

[Anonymous No.19541791]

>>19540040
I’m wondering if there really are actual stories where rape was unnecessary or out of the place. If the rape is there, the author must haven’t found any other way to further the plot or characterization or backstory or whatever the reason, i guess.

[Anonymous No.19541818]

>>19541700
It will benefit from clearer sentence structure when you edit it through. I like the concept. The beginning needs to be stronger to pull my attention in. You have good imagery to start with too.

[Anonymous No.19541824]

>>19541791
There's a dark fantasy/dark urban fantasy subgenre where one of the features is following through with what makes sense for the characters instead of plot armor. It might push some of the consequences to what if routes though.

[Anonymous No.19541839]

>>19541818
Thanks. I agree with all of this. Sucks that I'm the kind to get stuck in an eternal editing phase if I start now, but too eager to get feedback that I post unedited stuff like this, but it is what it is.

[Anonymous No.19541902]

This seems like the most relevant place to put this question. Have you ever noticed that when you read one book and then another on the same subject, coming back to the first book it can feel like the author had a secret he couldn't just put in his book? I notice this a lot with art instruction books and some of the books in the /pkmg/ threads that pop up on /lit/, I bet I'd feel the same way if I read all the books in this OP. Is this just how all books work, is it a quirk that comes from working for a publisher, am I retarded and this is just what learning feels like?

[Anonymous No.19541959]

>>19540117
Female on male rape just like in my doujins

[Anonymous No.19542031]

>>19540040
Stylistically speaking, when should you NOT use a comma or semicolon before a new clause or a conjuction?

For example:
If you go there, you'll die Vs. if you go there you'll die
He was tired, and she was scared Vs. He was tired and she was scared
The brave ran away; and the braver died fighting. Vs. The brave ran away and the braver died fighting.

[Anonymous No.19542333]

>>19542031
I use commas for dramatic pause and if the two clauses aren't close enough related to each other. For instance, I'd use a comma in your first example but I would change the second one to read "and so was she" and keep the comma. The third example you should remove "and" for the semicolon choice, and both read well stylistically.

[Anonymous No.19542565]

Got a short story idea. It's essentially a hard-boiled noir set in the medieval ages in an inefficient kingdom over run by bandits. A knight realizes he can't rely on the corrupt court and cowardly citizens and has to clear out a bandit hideout solo.

[Anonymous No.19542567]

>>19542565
cool, now write it

[Anonymous No.19542595]

>>19542567
I gotta go the gym first and I'm writing something else. However, I think I'll try to write it next time I get writers block.

[Anonymous No.19542611]

>>19542565
>>19542595
It's my idea, now.

[Anonymous No.19542633]

>>19542565
>has to clear out a bandit hideout solo.
god i hate fantasy nerds

[Anonymous No.19542825]

>>19542565
>A knight realizes he can't rely on the corrupt court and cowardly citizens
>corrupt court
>cowardly citizens
why isn't he joining the bandits, is my question

[Anonymous No.19542853]

>>19542565
Anon, you should research and decide in what time period and country it takes place, instead of being in a fantastical country that's an obvious surrogate for a real place. China during any of her civil wars would be a good setting for it because of the absence of a central government.

[Anonymous No.19542856]

Have drugs helped you write?

[Anonymous No.19542858]

>>19542825
He has morals

[Anonymous No.19542862]

>>19542856
Does coffee count? on and off.

[Anonymous No.19542874]

>>19542856
weed can help me get a fresh perspective when I'm editing

[Anonymous No.19542916]

>>19540054
Is it really "propaganda" if it was 100% correct?

[Anonymous No.19542940]

Writing a story that takes place in 2038. It’s horror so I’m not looking to make some hardcore predictions of the future but I guess I should include some details to make it seem like it’s not just like right now. What do you think 2038 will be like? All electric, self driving cars? Chips for vaccine passports?

[Anonymous No.19542953]

>>19542940
How do you think mask technology might change?

[Anonymous No.19543024]

>>19542940
2038 Isn't that far away, anon. Even by generous estimates we won't be at technological singularity, but there should be plenty of projections about what technology will be out there and what the world might look like. There's a couple ways that it could go depending on if we keep current institutions or if they get replaced, or if current "predictions" continue or not.
Personally, the scifi stories I've written are dystopian, but set in ages after some kind of great awakening / new industrial revolution where business owners (not technocrats, lobbyist of today's pluralism, not bankers or managers of previous models) have more influence. So in that way I actually imagine how the things we think are coming may not happen until late this century or into the 22nd.

[Anonymous No.19543076]

>>19542858
clearly he doesn't. he props up a corrupt and cowardly regime. clearly he does it for the pay and the prestige

[Anonymous No.19543083]

God I wish that was me

[Anonymous No.19543088]

>>19542633
AKTUALLY it's historical fiction
>>19542853
Ya I'm doing that now, I'm thinking Holy Roman Empire just because I prefer knights but your probably right about China. Plus the full plate armor plays a big role in the combat. I was reading about how full plate armor made knights walking tanks.

[Anonymous No.19543409]

All of you speak about writing.
None of your speak about publishing.
You are building a social media presence before you drop your book right?
You are not just going to drop your book and HOPE someone gives it a chance, right?

[Anonymous No.19543448]

>>19542825
Lots of knights were actual bandits in late feudal and early modern germany. They lived on extortion and kidnapping when the legal developments of that age - the rebirth of roman law regarding land, growth of permanent armies - left them impoverished

[Anonymous No.19543449]

>>19543409
Last thread someone had a lot to say about social networks, so fuck you, you retarded cocksucking nigger faggot. Your mother should have aborted you. I hope a pack of feral chinks rape your mom to death.

[Anonymous No.19543458]

>>19543449
It was probably me. I'm up to 101 followers now. Once I hit 5,000-10,000 I'll open a shop.
After 20,000 I'll drop a book.
COPE
SEETHE
DILATE

[Anonymous No.19543476]

>>19543409
Don't put it so presumptuously, anon. I'm an adult and writing's not the only job I've ever had. I know how to plan ahead.

[Anonymous No.19543519]

>>19543476
What's your plan in generalities, not in great detail.

[Anonymous No.19543523]

>>19542565
Read The Knight first

[Anonymous No.19543542]

>>19543523
I have

[Anonymous No.19543556]

>>19543542
Oh okay
My implication was that you shouldn't write what you're saying you want to write because it was already written better

[Anonymous No.19543569]

>>19543556
But Sir Able is a piece of shit and the story goes off course too often

[Anonymous No.19543589]

I want to write a memoir about the Trump years and the oppression I suffered, as a black trans woman, during that time. I think it would be as important as The Diary of Anne Frank.

[Anonymous No.19543695]

>>19543589
I believe in you, it's so stunning and brave, even though Drumpf was pro LGBTQIA+

[Anonymous No.19543708]

>>19543695
Yeah but my target market doesn’t know that.

[Anonymous No.19543720]

>>19543708
At this point I wouldn't even blame you. I've contemplated writing fantasy romance once or twice

[Anonymous No.19543795]

>>19543409
Check out the social media presence of successful indie authors. It's usually terrible, facebook pages that are updated once every three months and so on. The ones who do the Gary Vee try hard shit are just as pathetic. I've seen multiple authors who put out an author chat video talking about their life every week for years and almost all the videos have <10 views. Social media only works if you're already a social media success.

[Anonymous No.19543809]

>>19543795
Reminds me of this youtube channel
https://youtube.com/user/shitcasecinema
Been posting for over a decade, only 16k subscribers

[Anonymous No.19543834]

>>19543795
I have another thread going where I go into more detail, but basically if you don't have at least 10-20k followers, dropping a book on twitter will give you almost no boosts in sales. You need to be somebody before you drop a book, or else the algorithms will ignore you.
You could write the best book on earth, if no one reads it because of a shit cover, shit title, and shit marketing, it will never be appreciated or successful in your lifetime.
Anything else is cope really.
That being said, if the book is shit you'll just spread shit, but a purchase starts with what catches someone's eyes and is properly advertised.

[Anonymous No.19544039]

https://twitter.com/SineCogitare
This guy posted his twitter a couple threads back saying he was going to make it by farming up twitter followers before dropping his book.
This is who you are taking advice from.

[Anonymous No.19544051]

I got 200 followers today (mostly bots and onlyfans whores sadly)

[Anonymous No.19544053]

>>19544039
Ok, stop advertising yourself.

[Anonymous No.19544078]

>>19540040
16 people are trapped in the biggest mall. They're forced to play sadistic death games as their numbers dwindle.

How would you write a book with this premise?

[Anonymous No.19544080]

>>19544053
Actually not me, he went and fished that up himself.

[Anonymous No.19544091]

>>19544080
Sure faggot. This is the most pathetic advertising campaign I've ever seen. Get help.

[Anonymous No.19544095]

Anyone here read Bronze Age Mindset by Bronze Age Pervert?

[Anonymous No.19544100]

>>19544091
Why would I advertise here? I did it once, got one follower, then his account got suspended.
It's literally not me.

[Anonymous No.19544101]

>>19544078
I'm writing something with this exact premise, but I have trouble trying to fill in all the 16 character slots. I have 14 named characters, but I need to figure out the remaining 2 characters

I'm also trying to figure out how the death game goes. If I want to make it a mini death game for each chapter like in squid game, a last man standing like in battle royale/hunger games, or just an old fashioned murder mystery where the killer is executed if found out, like in Danganronpa.

[Anonymous No.19544109]

>>19544051
What's your @?

[Anonymous No.19544113]

>>19544100
>Why would I advertise here?
>I did it once
Kek. What the fuck are you doing retard?
Nice evidence btw.

[Anonymous No.19544121]

>>19544113
Meh, I have nothing to gain from this. I'll let you guys advert for me months after I dropped my twitter @ once.

[Anonymous No.19544131]

>>19544121
Literally NGMI. Stopping giving advice when you clearly know fucking nothing about advertising.
Stop embarrassing yourself with that desperate twitter account and focus on your writing.

[Anonymous No.19544132]

>>19544113
Wtf? Both >>19544101 and >>19544078 are me. How did you get those (you)s?

[Anonymous No.19544155]

>>19544131
You know ive been coming here for a while. this entire interaction was cringe anon. your really butthurt by this twitter anon let it go lel

[Anonymous No.19544162]

>>19544121
>>19544131
>>19544132
>>19544113
N E W F A G S
E
W
F
A
G
S

[Anonymous No.19544179]

Wait I've been writing a death game in a mall story, too. Did one of you fuckers hack my computer and steal my story?
get out get out get out get out get out get out get out of my head. Get. Out.
Also join my twitter I need 20,000 followers and if you don't repond to this post your mother will die in her sleep. That's my death game mall story. Do not steal! You fucks.

[Anonymous No.19544194]

so you anons are trying the same twitter + book strat too? What are some others ways I can seed the field so to speak?

[Anonymous No.19544205]

>>19544194
It doesn't work. Not a single person is going to follow some new author who may or may not be dropping a book sometime in the next 18 months. Anyone who does is some Instagram zoomie doing a follow for follow scam who probably can't even read. Don't focus on advertising until you have something to advertise.

[Anonymous No.19544222]

>>19544205
Basically this. If you want to do this whole instagram/twitter thing what you need to do is:
1. Be female
2. Start a writer youtube channel
3. Show some skin. Not too much, but a tasteful amount. Slather that makeup on, you want your audience to literally taste the chemicals through the screen.
4. Rehash common sense advice.
5. Start a patreon* This may actually be step 3
6. Tell people you're writing a book in like every video. At least twice per video. Bookend it.
8. Start up your twitter handle. You can be more risque on twitter, show a little more skin.
9. Release your book at some point. Be sure to milk preorders and signed author copies. What your book is about it doesn't matter it can be any genre including liberally lifting exact paragraphs from other books.
10. Don't forget your discord shilling.

There you go, you are a successful author.

[Anonymous No.19544224]

>>19544205
Why the fuck would you advertise after youve released a book? Amazon only boosts a book or ebook for 100 days. That'd be like advertising a movie only AFTER its in theatres. Justify your reasoning.

[Anonymous No.19544280]

>>19544224
When you are introducing yourself into a market you want to be able to profit off of the first impression, not pay for hype when you've done nothing to earn the hype.
When you're a brand new band you don't spend 8 grand marketing your first show at a dingy bar. You get on the stage and sell yourself and you keep doing that until you have something worth advertising.
Marketing is a powerful tool but it's also an easy trap to fall into if you have no clue what you are doing. Best thing you can do as a new author is paid advertising in niche circles (4chan for example) and allowing a community to grow around you. You can get about 8 months of advertising on /lit/ for about $200. It worked for Gardner.
>That'd be like advertising a movie only AFTER its in theatres.
Terrible example.

[Anonymous No.19544292]

>>19544280
>It worked for Gardner
Uh

[Anonymous No.19544299]

>>19544280
>twitter
>8 grand marketing
LEL, entire analogy fell apart there buddy.

[Anonymous No.19544336]

>>19544292
Gardner spent $80 on ads and has 22 times the number of reviews as anyone has in this thread other than Jason Byran who has an entire amazon page of people calling him an incel.
Son of the Son author is another good example. Spent like $40 and earned half a dozen fake reviews from anons who appreciated that he spent money on the site.

>>19544299
yeah m8, just spend 6 months posting shit like this on twitter so you can farm up 12 cents worth of paid Twitter followers. That's clearly the road to success.
Honestly though, working at McDonalds so you can afford to spend 8k on marketing for a 24 month advertising campaign to lead up to your books release might be a better use of your time.

[Anonymous No.19544361]

>>19544336
I know who gardner is, who is jason and whats his book

[Anonymous No.19544372]

>>19544336
> fake reviews
They weren't fake anon, I bought the ebook and it was worth it. You can't be so cheap not to afford $5

[Anonymous No.19544385]

>>19544372
He thinks everything is fake anon. Let the boy stew in his own

[Anonymous No.19544397]

>>19544372
Obviously people bought it, I just mean that most people would have given it a 5* either way because it was advertised here. I know that's what I did with Gardner.

[Anonymous No.19544412]

>>19544397
Stop projecting your behavior on others!

[Anonymous No.19544437]

>>19540040
For everyone here talking about advertising and building a fanbase for their books, you DO know that you can cultivate a fanbase by writing a webnovel, various short stories, or a fanfic, right? Put out a solid story, update it weekly or monthly, and shill it on reddit and you'll cultivate a decent following.
I've seen ALOT of writers pull in dedicated readers this way, either through a patreon or a userbase that instantly purchases their book when it comes out

[Anonymous No.19544445]

>>19544412
No.

>>19544361
https://www.amazon.com/City-Singles-Jason-Bryan-ebook/dp/B00BDYI9D2
This is his older book. He refused to put Shitkickers on Amazon because of the reviews he got here.

[Anonymous No.19544586]

>>19544437
>shill it on reddit
which board? not the writing one, I assume. that board is like concentrated cancer.
>yeah, I know, reddit

[Anonymous No.19544633]

https://ghostbin.com/hKJBp/raw

First draft. Is it worth rewriting or not?

[Anonymous No.19544661]

>>19544586
Depends on the genre. Horror writers for instance tend to shill their prose and style on nosleep and shortstories.

[Anonymous No.19544664]

>>19540040
how do you lads organize and order all the pieces of your narrative and world

[Anonymous No.19544704]

is 1k a day enough

[Anonymous No.19544720]

50 is enough.

[Anonymous No.19544723]

>>19544664
mempad64

[Anonymous No.19544743]

>>19544723
thank you

[Anonymous No.19544801]

>>19542856
Salvia helped me meet the demiurge. Not joking AMA.

[Anonymous No.19544808]

>>19540697
you've never had sex. obviously.

why exorcise fear of violence through sexual roleplay?

>bro they like it
fucking retard

[Anonymous No.19544830]

>>19541696
I love you, little anon. but that's another retarded question.

it's like asking "is music worth listening to?", or "should I look at paintings?"

>stuck-up authors pretending to do something deep and critics pretending to get it

Sometimes. But you aren't seriously asking if poetry (A METHOD) is worth getting into? Well of course it is, sweet anon.

[Anonymous No.19544938]

>>19544720
>30,000 / 50 = 600
Spending two years on a mediocre children's book is not very impressive

[Anonymous No.19544954]

seriously is 1k a day enough or am I cringe

[Anonymous No.19544983]

>>19540040
How do you give 10 characters equal amounts of screentime?

[Anonymous No.19545241]

>>19544954
It's fine.

[Anonymous No.19545419]

>>19542565
Expecting justice and being bitterly disappointed when it doesn't turn up is a 20th century American phenomenon, anon. Hard-boiled means disappointed boyscout with a bottle of bourbon.

[Anonymous No.19545435]

>>19544095
Yes. It feels like the start of a new cultural movement.

[Anonymous No.19545436]

>>19540040
Does anyone know how to pitch or query? I tend to not really know what I’m doing and haven’t done well with it (but I have gotten lucky just letting my work speak for itself in submissions).

[Anonymous No.19545525]

>>19544938
I remember reading it over a decade ago and dropping it somewhere in the first fantasy town she was in. Don't know why it bored me to death.

[Anonymous No.19545658]

>>19544983
Write multiple perspectives separated by chapter breaks. Once I started writing like this I've never been able to go back to one perspective for an entire book.

[Anonymous No.19545693]

>>19545658
>multiple perspectives
I seriously hope it's not first person too

[Anonymous No.19545761]

>>19544633
I’m editing and revising it now. I’ll have this published before you retard.

[Anonymous No.19545785]

I think my dick is taking control of my writing. I'm outlining a YA series about fighting demons and not letting your life be defined by the fate you were born with

And then I get to describing the main character and...
>Short but still wtih C cups
>Normally wears a big winter parka but just a tank top underneath
>She takes it off to fight
>Benches 3 plate (she's super human)
>People look down on her performance because she runs around saving people before fighting
>Red head, bob cut
>Tomboy hero personality
>Regularly hooks up with the other girls she fights with but is looking for a guy for a relationship

[Anonymous No.19545837]

>>19545693
First person is way too restrictive for me, so it's all third person.

[Anonymous No.19545926]

>>19545785
Literally me except I'm not short

[Anonymous No.19545999]

In a setting where you’re not dealing with humans, how do you present racism in a way so that faggots can’t immediately interpret the racist ones as representing white people?

[Anonymous No.19546040]

>>19545999
The Sneetches manages to do this.

[Anonymous No.19546046]

Describe this

[Anonymous No.19546056]

>>19546046
Niggers and trannies.

[Anonymous No.19546095]

>>19545926
Sure it is bucko

[Anonymous No.19546103]

>>19546046
The path went along an embankment, separating the paddy fields from the river and from each other, leading finally to a house in a copse of red-leaved trees. Fog rolled down the hills behind it, and I looked forward to taking shelter inside: the upper floors were covered by a steep thatch, like the skin of a brown bear.

[Anonymous No.19546115]

>>19546046
Who is describing it?

[Anonymous No.19546126]

>>19546046
The summer was ending. Harvests were proceeding. Some leaves were already turning red. Among the hilly woodlands there was a farmhouse, steep of roof and well-worn by the years, but much cared for in good repair. A river ran by the fields, with reeds and loose strands of hay carried off by the slow current, the water level high from recent rain.
All the woods were quiet still, as if birdsong was still on hold, the birds uncertain as to whether the weather had turned fair yet or no. These rains had awakened the greenery itself to a lush life, the greens appearing to the human eye a deeper green than at other times. The scent of the wet soil filled the nostrils of anyone who cared to take a stroll outside at such a time.

[Anonymous No.19546132]

>>19546126
much cared for and in good repair *

[Anonymous No.19546143]

>>19545999
Hint at events in the past that are morally gray to someone that doesn't know the fictional history. Come up with a reason for both parties why they don't trust each other. Then establish their place in society and think about what readers might interpret that as. Are their myths and customs in harmony with culture at large or is it rejected? What's the demographic breakdown? What have they been accused of? What is their stereotype? If I were bitter about whites I'd see the following as evoking the "white devil":
>social mores, symbols, myths and speech mainly originates from them
>majority of population
>holds undeserved positions of power, money and law
>too nice: shallow, suspicious, callous and cruel
>willfully ignorant of ongoing controversy or historic tragedy that benefits them

So say you present a racist character, with a high-paying job they're not so good at, condescending and ignorant, etc etc a reader may go "IS DIS WHITE MAN?"

If you were to make this a minority group, make them more likeable (higher of 2/3: how sympathetic they behave, pro-activity and competence), and give a logical reason for them to fear other groups, perhaps readers would be less inclined to see them as le ebil white empire.
Personally, my next project is on historical fiction about post-exile Jews and Samaritans ~550 BC. There is pretty good reason for both of them to hate each other, but for outsiders it can be confusing because the Persian Empire of their time was tolerant as long as nations paid taxes. We like to think of empires as inevitably the intolerant ones, but that isn't always the case. Read into that history because I think it's a good example of tribalism without evoking the "white" side of things.

[Anonymous No.19546198]

>>19546143
Thank you, anon.

[Anonymous No.19546274]

>>19540567
Зaтpaлeнo

[Anonymous No.19546284]

>>19542916
Wow. A girls among all those disgusting men and nobody rapes her. Btw anyone who would complain about “allied rapes” during ww2 should shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.19546292]

>>19546284
>anyone who would complain about “allied rapes” during ww2 should shut the fuck up
enjoy being haunted by the ghost of my dead raped grandma you insensitive fuck

[Anonymous No.19546546]

My attempt to make a book cover with Bannerlord

[Anonymous No.19546718]

>>19546046
I see a three-storey straw-roofed house next to a field in middle of a mountainous valley, in the middle of a forest. Curtains are closed and even when not said aloud, everyone knows what is happening inside.

[Anonymous No.19546920]

>>19546046
The difference between writing and say, martial arts or sailing, is that there are no discrete aspects of composition. Meaning you cannot drill yourself in description or characterization and expect these skills to materialize by instinct when they are needed.

So, in terms of describing this farmhouse: see pic related. Because there is a picture of it. The ability to accurately relate the details of this image does not translate into the ability to effectively deploy a description in a narrative. If anything, it would only subconsciously prime you to halt your narrative to unload tedious descriptions of the scenery.

Even if this sort of thing could help, doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose to give us the answer sheet before we take the test? A better idea would be like "describe a farmhouse" and then have other anons try to find a picture that fits that description.

[Anonymous No.19546955]

>>19546920
Naturally, you would never include something as trite as a house in your works of fiction.

[Anonymous No.19547075]

Do you write differently in summer and in winter?

[Anonymous No.19547161]

>>19546143
>We like to think of empires as inevitably the intolerant ones, but that isn't always the case.
Empires are almost always excessively tolerant. That's how you create an empire, different groups all get folded in.
le empire bad memes paint them as intolerant so that people don't look around at the current american empire and think to themselves, hey, are we actually the bad guys?

[Anonymous No.19547309]

>>19546046
The roof was made from pulled cedar and palm fibers, applied and sealed with a sappy resin. Danson hadn't seen that much fuzzy wood since his college football days.

[Anonymous No.19547693]

Here's the first part of my Knight short story

[Anonymous No.19547803]

>>19546920
Yes, you can. Why wouldn't that be the case?

Anons ITT are giving more context than the picture implies, creating a kind of snapshot of a narrative. The point isn't to describe it in such a way that it can be reconstructed. As a prompt, what it does is provide a reference where we can judge if anons expressed their inner vision well. If you say "describe a farmhouse", you get people interested in farmhouses to respond; in a way you're limited to the initial vocabulary used. With a suggestive image, people can deviate from the script, without going so far off course that their responses can't be compared any more.

[Anonymous No.19547877]

Is for “the greater good” a valid villain justification?

[Anonymous No.19547920]

>>19547877
Well, depends on details.

[Anonymous No.19548003]

>>19547803
>Why wouldn't that be the case?
I don't know, you tell me what would happen if you practiced free-throw shots without dribbling or passing and then tried to play an active game of basketball.

>Anons ITT are giving more context than the picture implies,
Of course they are. It was a terrible prompt. Prompts in general are almost always terrible and they only appeal to the worst type of writer: the kind who has nothing to say.

[Anonymous No.19548007]

How do I write a pretentious story that far up its own ass?

[Anonymous No.19548024]

>>19547920
Rapes. The necessary kind.

[Anonymous No.19548028]

>>19548024
My MC rapes for the greater good. Get your own ideas.

[Anonymous No.19548034]

>>19547075
yes. my writing is sad in the summer and its REALLY sad in the winter

[Anonymous No.19548057]

>>19548028
I raped the idea out of you.

[Anonymous No.19548060]

>>19547877
Bear in mind that people can often misunderstand their own motivations and would sooner lie about them than admit that they aren't as clever as they seem.

Let's say I'm a climate activist. Its entirely possible that I'm concerned about the environment. Its entirely possible that I just want to meet new people. Its entirely possible that I just have a difficult time coping with ambiguity, and I would feel much more content in a more rigidly-structured society, and the climate crisis just strikes me as the ultimate form of ambiguity. It might even be all of it together, to varying degrees. These attitudes might not manifest as "evil" behavior at all.

Like I once thought it would be a smart idea to stock up on survival supplies for a hurricane. I googled "survival tips" and two months later I was mustering with a civilian militia group, dreaming of the day when the collapse of society would allow me and my fellow patriots to march forth to rebuild the real America. Sure, the liberals might hate it at first, but they'd come around when they saw the pleasure of owning an isolated homestead and banning all foreign trade.

[Anonymous No.19548077]

What is really the best way to make my characters and stories popular assuming I don't give a shit about money?

[Anonymous No.19548096]

>>19548077
Make them gay nigger trannies.

[Anonymous No.19548102]

>>19548077
Shill it on here. If it depicts racism in positive light I'll read it.

[Anonymous No.19548104]

>>19548077
Why make them popular if you don't care about money?

[Anonymous No.19548111]

>>19548007
Purple prose and overt self importance

[Anonymous No.19548144]

>>19547877
isekai
litrpg/gamelit
dungeoncore
big breasted anime girl as either heroine or love interest
lesbians raging hot for each other (but no yuribait, this is important)
MC kicked out of party because he's "useless" but basically is their logistics guy
cultivation
so on and so forth

[Anonymous No.19548153]

>>19548144
meant to quote >>19548077

[Anonymous No.19548223]

>>19547693
>he (Gottfried) ran outside... only to see him riding Gottfried's horse

I think it should be "Gottfried ran outside... only to see the brigand riding his horse" or something like that. Your writing makes it unclear whose horse is that.

Also, it might be due to it being an excerpt, but it's not always clear where characters are physically and who they are.

I'm ESL, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, but the prose seems competent enough to me.

>named sword
That's the biggest yikes.

[Anonymous No.19548231]

>>19548144
>MC kicked out of party because he's "useless" but basically is their logistics guy
That's oddly specific.

[Anonymous No.19548240]

>>19548223
Thanks for the feedback. Space is a challenge and I'll try to work on it. And it's kinda suppose to be edgy and over-the-top which is why I like the sword's name

[Anonymous No.19548253]

>>19548231
Seems to be a popular trend in I think Chink and JP stories at the moment. I see it posted every so often on the isekaigen threads on /a/

[Anonymous No.19548605]

This is a small portion of something I've been working on. I don't know, I don't really like some of it and I'm terrible at pacing. Does anything stick out as being bad or odd to read?

https://pastebin.com/qU1TEfzK

[Anonymous No.19548607]

>>19548104
I want to leave something behind when I'm gone and make my markerino. I also want people to make porn of the characters.

[Anonymous No.19548617]

Why is the publishing industry run by white women? Who let this happen?

[Anonymous No.19548629]

>>19548617
You know who.

[Anonymous No.19548682]

Have any of you read anything from the OP list that actually helped you? I don't want to read 300 pages to figure out the same 10 tips I can find from googling how to write a novel

[Anonymous No.19548693]

>>19548682
The first 5 chapters of Story Genius are pretty good.

[Anonymous No.19548704]

check it out

the one positive reply was a guy who asked for the first 50 pages snail mailed to his address and then told me he was gonna pass on it

[Anonymous No.19548721]

>>19548231
One of the many LN trends. Basically, showing the powerful start, then making protag into an underdog who then goes on his own, because a previously useless talent turns out to be very useful.

[Anonymous No.19548755]

>>19548704
How much have you edited already? Is it your first story?

[Anonymous No.19548768]

>>19548755

Been editing since February. Yeah it's my first.

[Anonymous No.19549135]

Why do I hype myself up about writing then when I open up docs to get started, I lose a whole day's worth of motivation

[Anonymous No.19549167]

>>19549135
You rack disciprine

[Anonymous No.19549594]

>>19548704
>snail mailed then rejected
What a chump. What was he gonna do. Line edit it or some shit?

[Anonymous No.19549628]

>>19549594

No idea, he specifically requested it be double spaced and single sided too

[Anonymous No.19549647]

>>19549628
Oh yeah, he was gonna line edit it and either gave up or lost interest. Either way that's fucked.

[Anonymous No.19549652]

ive been without my laptop for a few weeks now. Do you ever worry about what your characters are getting up to when you're not around to write for them?

[Anonymous No.19549757]

>>19548003
I don't know what those things are and I'm not curious to find out.

I wasn't going to do this, but you talked me into it. How about you write a description of that scene to demonstrate how easy it is? After all, any idiot can do it. I'm sure your description would be the best in this thread.

[Anonymous No.19549761]

Response times don't mean anything, right? They're just a cope? I've been trying to get a second publication for a while and every journal I've submitted to has had a three-month verdict window. One place rejected me in less than twelve hours (I assume they fucking hated it), while most others keep me on the hook for 6-9 months before saying no.

They're just backed up, right? It doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.19549834]

>>19540117
You are amongst the last 100 human beings on Earth, and a woman refuses to get pregnant because
> muh body
It literally becomes your duty to rape her.

[Anonymous No.19549923]

>>19549834
nah, i would just let the human race go extict then. its no different than my motiivation to not have children in this life here and now as well

[Anonymous No.19549969]

>>19549652
I worry my characters are changing the script to suit their own fiendish ends. When that happens, I employ the rule of funny to fix it.

[Anonymous No.19550038]

>>19540040
I need ideas to complement my story, please.

I had always wanted writing a semi-erotic drama about a problematic teenager boy (high school student) with a father workaholic and an unhappy mother, he is a gang's member and constantly fighting again other gangs. Also he starts to have sex with a older woman (probably a teacher or a richman's wife) even when he have a girlfriend, she ending pregnant but him die before to know it.

The biggest twist plot a that his girlfriend is actually fucking with his best friend and his dead was planned by his friend.

[Anonymous No.19550116]

>>19550038
It sounds like you have ideas already. What kind of complement ideas do you mean

[Anonymous No.19550148]

Why do some genre writers always send to the same places knowing they'll get rejected? I find it kinda strange.

[Anonymous No.19550163]

>>19550116
I feel that it's too predecible and I need a something to gaslighting the reader.

[Anonymous No.19550686]

>>19550148
Pride and denial

[Anonymous No.19550823]

Hundreds upon hundreds of fens; Ezekiel looks youthful this morning.

He opens a strange door, exiting the hut with withdrawal symptoms emerging right away, under the sordid sun when everyone in the crowd was watching carefully not to stir the baboon, this nigger-skinned fellow.

How queer he is, one thought. I can’t shake this odd feeling about him. What a strange figure he is, trying to encapsulate even the most miniscule movements inside his urine-bottle. That is what he carried with him. A nasty object; with many straws and tubes and other similar receptors that entered his under-gut, probing the least sever-joyful, Christian-like approach one might have to what was going on down there.

Regardless of which, there was no telling just what other part of his body would fall next. Him, the Leper, mentally divine; the peaceful Cockatrice, a legend in his own right; a count, a duke, a guitar-playing no longer able to feel the succor of ashes that surrounded him, the man of no crowd, the lonesome one.

Again, the radio started shuffling displays of some vapid operas that appeared to have been lost somewhere in the last century or so. It was a cruel crudity that could serve no means of accommodation. It was a cruel bastion that ripped away skin, tarnishing at itself, engulfing him with no more and no less than what the man begged for, a clean cut, a fine shot, death following him around.


‘Set him upstairs, we’ll carry him if he makes too much noise. Don’t worry your fine-throat Jackal, you Panther, you Cock, I shall lead my men while taking him for his weight bedraggled, left behind!’


So they did, after five fine kilometers, they suddenly dropped him down, wheels cajoling left and right.


‘Think he’ll survive for long if we leave him sitting over there?’

‘Couldn’t care less, plus it’s neither yours nor mine, to have a say in, this decision couldn’t have been more blessed.’

‘If so, tell me, advocate, for what reason is he still tied down?’

‘For pity’s sake and no less, no wont for ardor.’

‘Hence I suppose we’ll have him starved by noon.’

‘Naught else will satisfy the wild life as they mourn for their loss.’

[Anonymous No.19551301]

Does anyone get a million ideas at once? I was trying to buckle down on one novel but began sketching out an idea for another setting that took up like 3-4 days of my time. It's really unfortunate.

[Anonymous No.19551441]

How do you get to the phase where characters have a life and logic of their own?

Is this actually a good goal to have? It would mean some explanation for the characters actions remains unwritten, because you're only transcribing a part of your daydreams.

[Anonymous No.19551460]

>>19551441
>How do you get to the phase where characters have a life and logic of their own?
Observe people and write what you know. Naturally, there will be a soul to your characters if you write about your experiences and private observations about people.
>Is this actually a good goal to have?
Definitely. It will mean that your characters need little exposition and explanation; the reader will naturally know what this character is about.
>It would mean some explanation for the characters actions remains unwritten, because you're only transcribing a part of your daydreams.
If you can imply the unwritten, you are a god-tier writer, in my eyes.

[Anonymous No.19551493]

>>19551441
Yes, characters that act based on their own circumstances and goals usually work better than characters that voice the author's circumstances and wishes.

[Anonymous No.19551547]

>>19549923
If you watch porn instead you essentially watch other men rape women

[Anonymous No.19551762]

Does this sentence clearly convey who went home?

The knight left Sir Gottfried to stupor until he waddled home and rested.

[Anonymous No.19552187]

>have idea for a character
>not sure if they should be an antagonist or a protagonist

How do I pick? I know I want the story to be about them, but I also know that you can have the story be about the antagonist as much as it's about the protagonist.

[Anonymous No.19552203]

>>19552187
Do you mean villain or hero instead of protagonist and antagonist? Because your protagonist will always be your protagonist whether they're the hero or the villain.

[Anonymous No.19552219]

>>19552203
No, I mean what I wrote

[Anonymous No.19552221]

>>19551547
i dont watch porn. come on try harder

[Anonymous No.19552223]

>>19552219
But what you wrote is nonsensical. Do you know what these words mean?

[Anonymous No.19552243]

>>19552223
I mean should I write about a guy on a journey or the guy who antagonizes him?

[Anonymous No.19552251]

>>19552243
If you have an idea for a character, shouldn't you already know whether they're going on a journey or opposing it?

[Anonymous No.19552258]

>>19552251
The idea is mostly visual. I'm still working on motivations and that stuff. Hence my question.

[Anonymous No.19552265]

>>19552258
So you don't have a character yet? Perhaps you should figure them out first and the answer shall flow naturally from this. Visuals are meaningless here, what are this character's internal mechanics?

[Anonymous No.19552266]

>>19552243
You're not me but you're right.

>>19552251
No
Both characters might go on a "journey" together, for example

[Anonymous No.19552271]

>>19552258
Draw it?

[Anonymous No.19552274]

>>19552265
Look I'm going to be honest I'm pretty sure my question got hijacked by some ESL and you're not interesting enough for me to have a useful discussion with so I'm just going to leave it to the other guy

[Anonymous No.19552342]

>>19551301
I often get little drabbles that I store in a notepad and then retool to fit stories I know will have a longer lifetime. For example, I had an idea for a story about an uncaught dissociative identity disorder serial killer who liked to eat strawberry yogurt, and then I retooled him to be a jailed killer with the same yogurt obsession who consults on murder cases for other stories. That's a small peanuts case, but you get the idea.
>>19551441
I start my characters off pretty loosely written and slowly build them up as I write. I try to think of how I'd respond in a situation, then I think about how someone else might respond. If I'd lash out in anger, I try to think of who wouldn't lash out. If I would try to calm down a situation, I try to think of who would escalate it. Eventually I get to a balance where I intuitively understand what a character thinks and feels and how they react to things, and the rest follows.
I have tried character maps and setups and charts before and those can help get broad ideas on the page. But because they're time consuming and feel like a crutch I have to keep referring to over and over, I usually don't employ them. But they may be helpful for preventing you from running off a cliff in character design.
>>19551762
It reads half fine and half not. I think the issue is the first pronoun usually refers to the subject of the sentence. Try something like
>Sir Gottfried was left to stupor until he waddled home and rested

[Anonymous No.19552376]

>>19540985
It does not in nature gays help raise the kids of their extended family, especially important when people are dying left and right. A certain percentage of gays is a nice stabilizing safety net for a population.

[Anonymous No.19552389]

>>19546292
>>19542916
cope, human scum

[Anonymous No.19552401]

>>19552271
He looks like this

[Anonymous No.19552407]

>>19552401
Does he wear shoes?

[Anonymous No.19552433]

>>19552401

[Anonymous No.19552439]

>>19552407
Boots, but I haven't designed them yet

[Anonymous No.19552536]

I found a neat little trick to overcome writer's block. The trick is to set a timer for 15 minutes and write about anything, grabbing the first ideas that come into my head, no matter how derivative,
unoriginal or off-the-wall they are. The result is never that good, but it forces me to turn off the criticism and gets my brain to start thinking more quickly about what should come next. Now I do this every morning and sometimes several times a day. I also use it whenever I can't come up with a plot.

[Anonymous No.19552610]

>Story Genius because anon said it's comfy
>Stories feel good for the same reason food tastes good and sex feels good: because without them we couldn't survive

[Anonymous No.19552645]

>>19552610
>without them we couldn't survive
Without them I would have become an incel, or maybe gone insane. When I don't write for a while I feel like I'm wasting away spiritually.

[Anonymous No.19552655]

>>19549757
I made it perfectly clear that I see no value in doing that. It's like telling an atheist to pray if he wants proof of God. We're become quite hostile to one another and I don't expect you're prepared to give me the benefit of the doubt.

How about we try the thing I was talking about? I'll post an excerpt of what I would describe as pure description, the limestone springs I used to visit when I lived in Florida. Obviously there's a bit of action involved, but on the whole, this scene does not fit into the narrative and is just something I thought was interesting:

Carson Whicher slowly tipped over on his side and, gradually, the air began to thin out in the upper rows of the bleachers. He propped himself up on one arm and remembered that he was in the gym. The other kids were gone. He must have fallen asleep and had probably missed his bus. He would need to call his dad and wait for a ride. But first he needed water. He needed an entire limestone spring to himself. If he was at a limestone spring right now, he wouldn’t jump in. He would just stagger to the dock and walk right off the edge. Crystal clear, the water came piping out of the reservoirs, enormous black holding tanks submerged beneath miles of cool soil and wet rock. It was frigid, as cold as the refrigerator, and he always regretted jumping in immediately afterwards. There were kelp forests at the bottom, long snaking foxtails of green algae, where the minnows darted around and the black shadows of alligators drifted along the sandy basin amongst the sunbeams slashing through from the surface. When you looked down from the dock, it was easy to imagine that you would plunge down into them the moment you broke the surface. And then you worked up the nerve to heave yourself off the edge. Sometimes you grabbed the biggest rock you could find and clutched it tight to your chest.

And you cracked the surface and the cold water raced up your skin in tickling jets of trapped bubbles. You kept your eyes closed and let the rock carry you down, counting the beats of your pulse in your ears, feeling the last trace of the sun’s warmth peel off your shoulders as the back of your eyelids began to darken in the richening cold of the water’s depth. You imagined at every second that the kelp had begun caressing your feet with its slimy tickles and realized constantly that you would never have the courage to let your feet touch bottom. And finally your lungs began to burn and you dropped the rock and opened your eyes.

Not even halfway. The rock fell away beneath you in a slow, lazy spiral, the dim outline bleeding away into the shadows long before it came close to parting the kelp. You could not maintain this depth even if you wanted to; the pressure is forcing you upwards towards the light. And soon it equalizes, you find yourself suspended six feet from the surface. Scratching, clawing, fighting upwards.

[Anonymous No.19552661]

>>19552610
I'm in my 30s, yet I survived somehow.

[Anonymous No.19552715]

My writing is cliche and forgettable but feels kino when I'm writing

[Anonymous No.19552746]

>>19552715
just keep writing

[Anonymous No.19552757]

>>19552610
Story Genius is for people who can filter out the good advice from the random womanbrain filler. The good advice is great, though. Got me to finish a novel, at least. The only thing it doesn't really cover in-depth is antagonist characters, so put some original thought into that at least.

[Anonymous No.19552778]

>>19552757
The only thing I got out of it (before dropping it) is to focus on internal conflict. It's a repetitive woman book, the writer isn't even published and she has some Reddit talk Im not going to watch. The brain science thing seems to be a clickbait.

[Anonymous No.19552790]

>>19544437
I'm making the pivot toward short fiction so I can do this very thing. However, I have an aversion to social media, so, not too sure what I'll do to self promote once i have a nice batch of shorts to offer. Website, maybe?
I can't stand twitter, etc., so should I just buy a small printing press and distribute zines at the local coffee shop and inevitably bring an angry mob of java-zooted, horn rimmed spectacle wearing, limp wristed social warriors at my door because I didn't pass the Bechdel test?

[Anonymous No.19552794]

>>19552778
>the writer isn't even published
Pen names
>It's a repetitive woman book
Instructional books on subjective subjects should be repetitive, you say the same thing in different ways so that one of them is properly internalized by the individual reading it
>The brain science thing seems to be a clickbait
Correct, but if you ever thought anything else that's your own fault

[Anonymous No.19552807]

>>19552794
>>19552778
Also
>focus on internal conflict
That's not really the point I took from it
What I got out of it was "know why you want to write what you're trying to write and make sure it comes across to the reader in every scene"
That's what she means with all the shit about "third rails"
The rest of the book is just good advice (or filler) about how to figure out what makes your story interesting and how to infuse it into your characters (with their internal conflicts)
I do think the back third or so of the book is completely skippable since it just devolves into some notecard shit, though

[Anonymous No.19552834]

>>19546046
Brown but maybe red and also green.

[Anonymous No.19552953]

>>19551301
give me some that you don't want. I'm devoid of ideas and only have like three.

[Anonymous No.19552976]

If I were to do the weekly/bi-monthly webnovel thing what platform should I use? I have a few shortish (30-50k) things written up, but they're unedited because no publisher would ever take them. An Internet audience would like them though, I think.
Also I am aware of some fanfiction platforms and when I heard about My Little Pony getting a new season or whatever I briefly considered that bronies are just furries with a theme and that they'd probably pay me fat stacks for some rank horse smut, but that's fucking gay.
Is they gayness worth the furry porn pay grade?

[Anonymous No.19553054]

>>19552715
Is it action-dialogue-action for 180,000 words? No? Then keep writing

[Anonymous No.19553216]

>>19542856
Yes, if I hadn't smoked weed for a year and seen what it did to my mind, I would've never realized how much of my life I was wasting and would probably still be watching TV shows and playing games in my free time.

[Anonymous No.19553260]

>>19547075
Yes, I write once every 2-3 weeks in winter, whereas I write daily or bi-daily in summer. Something about the cold weather makes me want to work out and pace constantly. Something about the heat makes me motivated to write.

[Anonymous No.19553305]

>>19553216
Some TV shows are great study material

[Anonymous No.19553411]

>>19553054
No its action dialogue prose,

[Anonymous No.19553457]

>>19542856
as much as reading

[Anonymous No.19553482]

>>19552976
Royalroad, Scribblehub, even Spacbattles are the ones to look into: doesn't hurt to cross-post on all of them simultaneously. Under no circumstances should you ever bother with Wattpad

[Anonymous No.19553506]

>>19553216
Tell me, how is a life not wasted?

[Anonymous No.19553589]

>>19553305
For some people, I'm sure. Everyone finds inspiration in different places. For me, books and music have always been the things which get me inspired and motivated.

>>19553506
For me, creating things and talking to other people about them feels more fulfilling than watching TV. That answer is different for everyone, though, I'm not trying to speak for anyone but myself.

[Anonymous No.19553596]

>>19553482
why not wattpad??

[Anonymous No.19553611]

>>19553596
just pointless. There's literally no way in the way of discoverability unless you figuratively and literally viciously rimjob ssholes to get noticed on there, or sleep around to get some connections so that you too can be the next 50 shades of gray, but the same thing really. By all means, you're more than welcome to crosspost your story/stories there anyway, but it's probably going to end up as a doomed effort.

[Anonymous No.19553976]

Here's the pitch and query letter I've been sending to agents. Any feedback?

https://pastebin.com/wN7U7u4S

[Anonymous No.19554172]

>>19552655
I don't really know what we're doing at this point, but since you've posted something, it's only fair that I also post something. I put this together today. Water was on my mind, having read your post.


So. I went down to the river to see about the stepping stones. They’d been clogged and the water couldn’t flow between them; pooling up in the back, the river flooded its banks and was creeping across my yard. The dog had taken shelter on the back step and was eyeing the water with unease. Would the chain rust? What a pity that would be.

I leaned on a wall and looked at the river. It was brown with mud from the mountains, where it had been raining all night, and almost boiling with new currents.

I’d brought a billhook for the occasion, a staff with a slightly curved blade at the top. It’s not unlike a scythe, and that gives me great pleasure. With this on my shoulder, I went down to the stones to dislodge whatever was between them.

The stones had been rough once, but were now smoothed by being trodden on, almost polished. They stood at the top of a sharp slope, evenly spaced, and now the stones were covered by a fast and strong flow, brown glass at the top and white froth below. I went along the river rocks on the lower side, where the footing was better, and by now I could hear nothing but water.

I worked my way across. I dragged out some black branches and plastic bags spread between them like a sail. Fresh green matter, cardboard, and straw. Everything was pinned by water pressure; I had to hack at the branches to clear them. Water gushed through the new openings. My muscles ached by the time I got to the middle, where I could see a great log pinned. On its own it had practically dammed the river. There would be no breaking this; I’d have to go on top of the stones and knock it until it turned and shot through a gap. I can do whatever I want to this river.

I approached the log from above. I was ankle deep in fast flowing water. I struck the log with the blunt side of the billhook; it bobbed and a white corpse rose from under it.

Scholars have noted the blackness of the sun, and one can readily observe the whiteness of the sky. Laughter is the only remedy for love. I turned the corpse so that it went downriver, and didn’t tell anyone about what I had seen.

[Anonymous No.19554192]

>>19553976
This is a blurb, not a query letter at least to my knowledge of both. But it is a decent blurb, a little repetitive in some sections. Have you been getting any feedback from the agents?

[Anonymous No.19554210]

>>19554192

Getting these people to tell me anything besides "it's just not right for me" is impossible. I asked the one (1) guy who wanted to read more if he could offer feedback on the query letter and he said it was fine.

[Anonymous No.19554274]

>>19554210
Typical of agents to be unhelpful. I will say I can see from a publisher's perspective on the pitch why I would turn it down. Pitching a story as a "rehash" of any other story would put me off. Maybe you could change that. Everyone has their tastes though. What kind of feedback are you looking for? Content? Structure? Presentation?

[Anonymous No.19554288]

>>19554274

I only did that after seeing how many agents literally just want the same thing as something that's already successful. Go on manuscript wishlist and most of them will say "I want the next X"

The first like 90 queries I sent didn't include that.

They hold pitch contests on twitter and most of them are like that as well. "It's X but Y" and they start gushing like OMG YES YES YES

[Anonymous No.19554307]

>>19554288
Sounds like an overglorified prompt contest. Further proof that fanboys ruin everything.
>bro cock AND balls? Not the crossover I knew I needed!

[Anonymous No.19554322]

>>19554172
I failed to clarify in my post, my idea of a worthy writing exercise would be to post a sample of setting description and then have other anons try to find an image that matches it. In my opinion, it feels pointless to try and describe something that you can easily look at, somewhat like having a cheatsheet for the test.

Your submission is well written and although it did not hook me, it flowed nicely and as you claim this is a rough draft, it demonstrates obvious talent. The only time I was unable to form a solid image was when the narrator was dislodging the material in between the stepping stones. I turned the words over in my head a couple times and could form no idea of what it looked like. Describing the corpse would have been more effective than the metaphors IMHO, like a "burned into the mind" sort of effect before it goes bobbing along. It would make an interesting set-up for a short story, this guy creating problems for himself by wanting to avoid the trouble of reporting a corpse.

Reading your excerpt made me realize that my idea was also dumb, but pic related is the image that popped into my head after reading the story.

[Anonymous No.19554335]

>>19554307

You have no idea the amount of contempt I've garnered for these people since I've started querying.
They ask for personalized query letters that give them ass pats and then either don't reply at all or use the same form reply rejection they give everyone else.
They ask for muh PoC LGBTQP2S+ voices and only hire their white woman friends or kinky haired black bitches. "We want marginalized voices!" but only if they write what I, a white woman, want them to write. It's a fucking nightmare

[Anonymous No.19554360]

>>19554335
I was looking for literary agents in my state and it's been the same here. Even in the deep South we're getting fucked by marginalization. I can't seem to find a plain Jane literary fiction or comedy publisher anywhere.

[Anonymous No.19554389]

>>19554360

The practice is self-defeating as well, if you're a black dude you're only allowed to write about being a black dude and the struggles of a black dude. God forbid some of these minorities have imagination.

[Anonymous No.19554914]

Just signed up for Submittable. What am I in for?

[Anonymous No.19554920]

>>19554335
I'm in the same boat. It's honestly making me reconsider going with self-publishing because I'm struggling to find agents to query who want things beyond whatever their vapid MSWL states. Might be better to accept my stories are not wanted in the current market and skip that whole struggle.

[Anonymous No.19555076]

>>19553976
>https://pastebin.com/wN7U7u4S
Is that your entire letter? Where's the word-count, title, genre, comps, and all that shit?

[Anonymous No.19555085]

>>19555076

I left that out of the pastebin cause that doesn't change, so there's not a lot of room for feedback.

[Anonymous No.19555100]

That's the sort of thing they ask you put in the subject line of the e-mail like

Query: TITLE | Genre Subgenre | X words

[Anonymous No.19555104]

>>19545436
Go read QueryShark, that'll learn you the basics at least.

[Anonymous No.19555130]

>>19555100
That's true, but agents still like it in the body of the text as well.

>>19555085
That's true, but asinine as it is, how it's placed in the letter might help or hurt. Speaking as someone who tried the shotgun approach, you'd better have at least a sentence tacked on relating to something about the agent to show you took the time to read their site. I shot myself in the foot by trying a mass-production approach. Doesn't have to be huge, just a sentence near the beginning like, "I saw you were looking for X, and my book might fit the bill because Y."

Most people will read on for at least a little bit if there's something vaguely pertaining to them in the letter.

[Anonymous No.19555182]

>>19555130

I've been sending out 1 query a day for around 100 days now. Specifically because I figure i'd change/improve the query over time.
My queries were highly personalized when I started but after getting the first 50 or so form rejections or flat out ignored I started getting really salty.

[Anonymous No.19555218]

>>19555182
That's about when I did the same thing, lol. Adding one sentence shouldn't be too hard, and it could make the difference.

How long is your novel? Length matters far, far more than people say. If it's outside the sweet spot for your genre they could just be tossing it out of hand.

[Anonymous No.19555226]

>>19555218

75k words, with editing it fluctuates between 75-76k, first draft was 86k. Should be the right length for the genre; YA Horror.

[Anonymous No.19555377]

>>19555226
Yeah, you should be good for length then.

[Anonymous No.19555691]

>>19554914
>Submittable
what the fuck is that?

[Anonymous No.19555975]

>Never gets around to writing
>It's literally as easy as using google docs on your phone.
No excuses

[Anonymous No.19556032]

>>19553976
Not an agent but I can tell you why I think this sucks
First, for the pitch, you ideally want "[X] meets [Y] {and [Z]}" or "for fans of X, Y, and Z" where at least one of X Y or Z is something recent and award-winning and the others are classics
Second, the query, throw it in the trash and start over
You want to tell the agent what will happen to the protagonist in the first act of your book
I'd do something like
>Brandon's new [friend/lover (relationship unclear)], Billy, comes with some heavy baggage. Billy's childhood enemy is acting like he's possessed by something dark, and after Brandon meets him, he has to wonder if something supernatural really is at work. With strange voices and hallucinations haunting him, Brandon will have to get to the bottom of Billy's past if he wants peace. But greater forces are at play than Brandon knows, and it might be too much for one boy to handle...
It's not perfect (and I'm only going off your blurb) but it's better than what you have from the perspective of an agent because it shows that you know how to hone your focus in on the protagonist

Finally, it could just be that the sample you're sending with it sucks
I can't help you there

[Anonymous No.19556119]

>>19556032

Thanks

[Anonymous No.19556124]

>>19541565
>writing posts
>not an exorcise in writing
>*BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELTCH*
>*crunch munch* *crunch munch munch crunch*

[Anonymous No.19556161]

>>19556032
You can try what this guy said, or you can just submit your work as a black female author, or just tell them you cut your penis off and see what they say.

[Anonymous No.19556558]

>>19546284
>>19552389
Sweaty Ashkenazi moment

[Anonymous No.19556564]

>>19541959
Unfathomably based

[Anonymous No.19557418]

>>19555691
It's a platform you can submit stuff to. I'm looking for publishers.

[Anonymous No.19557680]

>>19556161
The goalposts always shift with shit like this
I can tell an agent I'm gay and they don't give a fuck, if me being gay doesn't grant the sample I've given them some promise of authenticity. Everyone's gay these days, so who cares?
If I lie and tell them I'm trans, oh that's too common now, too
Black woman? Millions of those, sorry, they're too "busy" "reading" their "slush pile" to reply

The actual thing is just that they hold white guys to a slightly higher standard
It's because they can't sell your book as anything but a good book, so it had better be a really fucking good book
So if you're getting rejected, they think you didn't write a really good book, and personally I'd be more concerned with fixing that than trying to target an easier demographic

[Anonymous No.19558608]

>>19554335
>"We want marginalized voices!"
>mfw the setting is a utopia where marginalization by race and sex does not exist
>the only marginalization is by beliefs
>do not hint at all the race of the characters though the background is clearly rural to middle-class Southern US
>try to leave it a bit open ended so if some want to believe the protag is delusional, they can
>if they want to believe racism has really been defeated and nothing evil in man remains, they can
I bet it still won't be enough.

[Anonymous No.19558784]

>>19540040
Anyone else here get so many writing ideas during bedtime and so literally cannot sleep without listening to a podcast?

[Anonymous No.19558853]

>>19558784
no, that would be when I'd write.

[Anonymous No.19559035]

>Write protagonist who thinks he's hypercompetent at a given skill
>He succeeds repeatedly and has a history of success, justifying his overconfidence
>Turns out he's not nearly as good as he thinks he is and the conditions that let him succeed no longer exist
>Gets absolutely bodied by someone who is a true expert
>Eventually wins against the expert, but only by cheating to do so
I call this the "anti-anime progression arc"