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19526790 No.19526790 [Reply] [Original]

*Doesn't know what free will is*

>> No.19526795

>>19526790
He’s just what christcucks run to when they can’t read Aquino instead
t. studied in the Augustinian order

>> No.19526802

Free will is not an actual thing. That’s not to side with determinists, that’s to say there is no logical difference between what people call “free will” and it’s alternative, because the entire concept is created in the mind on false pretenses.

>> No.19526850

How much bad theology has been the result of the naive but well-intentioned desire to glorify God's theoretical omnipotence at the expense of everything else about Him and His creation?

>My God is SOOOO strong he couldn't even CREATE a being free from His eternal gaze because He would already know what that being was going to do before it did it!!!

>> No.19527103

>>19526795
What turned who away from Catholicism?

>> No.19527127

>>19526802
I hate these types of mental gymnastics.

>> No.19527169

>>19526790
His definition of Free Will is cribbed from Plotinus, like most of his philosophy

>> No.19527181

>>19526802
What is even the other option than determinism, "stuff happens randomly"?

>> No.19527184

>>19527127
No gymnastics, monsieur. Create a logical pathway in decision-making that would qualify as your mental concept of “free will”

>> No.19528671

>>19527181
Even if "stuff happens randomly" it doesn't give any creedence to the idea of free will.

Is the dice "free" to roll to any side? A determinist would say: "No, the roller of the dice was predetermined to roll the dice that way". Let's say we don't sign up to that idea of predetermined stuff and say things happen "randomly" or "qUaNtOm tUnnElIng" etc it still wouldn't give the dice, or the roller (a human) the "free choice" many talk about when talking about free will. If the event didn't have any precursor, any fair "reason" for it to happen it can be said to have happened at random, but if a person would do something truly out of character that would be a sign of mental illness. We can't stand neither case of those.

Thing is that precursors exist, and is the reason we believe that our childhood affects our present. But out of character actions, that spring out of "nothing" also has a precursor of things that happened for a "reason". Either way free will is kinda cringe and ice melts if it gets too hot.

>> No.19528695

just free will your way out of a drug addiction bro. Schizophrenia? Just literally stop thinking of your delusions. Emotions? No problemo, just free will them away.

>> No.19528713

>>19528695
>t. drugged up schizo without emotions
the reason you're stuck is that you believe you're stuck. fatalism is a self fullfilling prophecy.

>> No.19528871

Of course he does, he simply understands God's infinite power and the confusing nature of time. Augustine's argument goes as follows for the brainlets who haven't read The Confessions

>God is outside time
>time happens all at once, the beginning is happening at the same time as the end to him
>if this is the case then God knows the choices we make
>if god knows the choices we make then we are not making choices and everything is predetermined
also, this is where Augustine gets weird
>God KNOWS what will happen yet he does not interact with this material world
>even through he is the maker and his fingerprints are all over the place we still have choice, to be good or evil, to please God or anger him

This is very much like Augustine's trinity argument, he can believe two contradictory things at once. Anyway, he's one of the greatest thinkers to ever live so who are we question him?

>> No.19529046

>>19526802
>because the entire concept is created in the mind
who experiences the mind?

>> No.19529064

>>19529046
me

>> No.19529108

>>19529064
who or what are you?

>> No.19529120

>>19529108
i'm the experiencer of the mind

>> No.19529178

>>19529120
how are you part of or connected to the physical world you perceive?

>> No.19529197

>>19528871
t. Augustine, who stepped out of time to defend his horseshit from future readers

>> No.19529217

>>19529178
I'm experiencing the physical, "real" world, through my senses. my eyes build _my_ visual world, my skin and internal organs build _my_ internal world, nose/mouth build the taste world etc.

All these senses build up and gets filtered (much like you when reading) through the mind. my mind builds the total experience in a similiar way my eyes build the visual.

The "I" or "me" who experiences this is literally just a figment of my own imagination. The stories (thoughts) i tell myself daily about "i need to eat" "i want to sex" "i should clean my room" are as real as a glass of water is. A glass of water in the real world can be seen (as a visual experience), drunk (as a sense, taste, nourishment etc) or spread out onto the floor (then experienced by the floor and sucked up by the wood etc). This is the same way thoughts work, atleast when expressed in language. they are as maluable as a glass of water.

>> No.19529222

>>19526790
What is it?

>> No.19529552

>>19528871
>he's one of the greatest thinkers to ever live so who are we question him?
>he can believe two contradictory things at once.
some thinker

>> No.19530371

>>19528871
In City of God he makes the point that just because God KNOWS that you will make a certain choice, it does not prevent you from CHOOSING said action. While this still is in a sense predestination, it leaves the door open for people to convert for their entire lives. It is never the end, and just because you have chosen a path against God's will, you could still end up choosing him at a later time. Which of course God still knows about. But again, it doesn't stop your free will from acting out.

>> No.19530445

>>19528871
I kneel

>> No.19530721

>>19528713
Nah, believing in free will would be the exact way to be stuck in these situations. By realizing free will isnt real, one foolishly stops trying to simply will these problems away. This foolishness produces the worst kind of stuckness, a cycle of guilt for just not trying hard enough. Instead, by letting go, one can get help.

>> No.19531626

>>19529552
Unironically yes. Only brainlets think a contradiction refutes a position.

>> No.19532421

>>19528871
This. Thanks, Augustini-anon.

>> No.19532641

>>19528871
Augustine is so smart that he doesn't even have to make sense, he's still right

>> No.19532822

>>19531626
Two contradictory things cannot simultaneously be true. The truth can be a mixture of the two or a middleground, but insisting that a room is both "painted entirely black" and "painted entirely white" is just retarded.

>> No.19533999

>>19530721
I believe there is misinterpretation between us. I agree with your post and it's not against my post so i don't understand your "nah" at the start.

What i meant with "the reason you're stuck is the belief you're stuck" is that a letting go of the victim persona is the way to get help, if help is wanted. if help is unwanted and maybe even unwarranted then the only way is to keep at it (whatever it is) and eventually quit of fatigue

>> No.19534001

>>19526850
Bro did you have friends when you were 4 or 5? Remember playing pretend and pretending to have super powers?

The game literally always ends with one kid claiming to have the best powers.

>> No.19534325
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19534325

>ahhh im coooming better coooonvert but let me coooom first