Does the Soul exist?.

[Anonymous No.19515677]

In which dialogue and how did Plato prove the existence of the Soul and its immortality?.

[Anonymous No.19515685]

>>19515677
In scientific terms, there is no soul, simple as that. Also, a theoretical pure human would probably not have a soul, and instead rely on cooperation and logic with no emotions needed to motivate it. I have no idea why I felt the need to add that last part but whatever.

[Anonymous No.19515716]

>>19515685
>In scientific terms, there is no soul
Then what is the cause of life?. What brings life?.

[Anonymous No.19515736]

>>19515685
But in metaphysical terms, there is a soul.

[Anonymous No.19515760]

>>19515736
Explain...

[Anonymous No.19515791]

>>19515760
The soul is not something that can be measured, because it is the measurer. Just as a ruler cannot measure itself.

[Anonymous No.19515878]

>>19515791
If the measurer can't be measured, than soul is indeterminate such that no rational account can be made of it, and so whether it were capable of death or deathless would unknowable and left to likelihoods at best. Therefore it "isn't" in "metaphysical terms" since metaphysics is a rational account.

[Anonymous No.19515888]

>>19515685
Soul in the Greek sense doesn't always resemble the Christian notion of soul. Sometimes in Aristotle it seems like he thinks the soul dies with the body.

[Anonymous No.19515890]

>>19515878
No, it just means it can't be measured.

[Anonymous No.19515893]

>>19515677
some shit about rationality and shit idk man fuck

[Anonymous No.19515895]

>>19515791
you can measure a ruler just use another ruler hahaha

[Anonymous No.19515902]

>>19515685

[Anonymous No.19515962]

>>19515890
Lol you really think there's no other implication? A measure is a standard against which to compare or determine, right? Obviously the soul can't be measured in the sense of having a length or a width, since it's not an extended body. But being unmeasurable in this sense doesn't mean being indeterminate, for if the soul were indeterminate, it couldn't be known whether it can die or not, mortality and immortality being kinds of determinations. Ergo, for the soul to be known to be either deathless or susceptible to death, it must be determinate, that is, is must be measurable in some way.

[Anonymous No.19515994]

>>19515677
Meno, Phaedo, Pheadrus, Timaeus.

[Anonymous No.19515999]

>>19515677
>In which dialogue and how
Look it up faggot

[Anonymous No.19516019]

>In scientific terms, there is no soul, simple as that. Also, a theoretical pure human would probably not have a soul, and instead rely on cooperation and logic with no emotions needed to motivate it. I have no idea why I felt the need to add that last part but whatever.

[Anonymous No.19516039]

>In scientific terms, there is no soul, simple as that. Also, a theoretical pure human would probably not have a soul, and instead rely on cooperation and logic with no emotions needed to motivate it. I have no idea why I felt the need to add that last part but whatever.

[Anonymous No.19516048]

>In scientific terms, there is no soul, simple as that. Also, a theoretical pure human would probably not have a soul, and instead rely on cooperation and logic with no emotions needed to motivate it. I have no idea why I felt the need to add that last part but whatever.

[Anonymous No.19516052]

>>19515685
You are completely wrong and retarded.

The soul is the psyche/mind and we obviously have one and it is obviously temporal and subject to death.

We also have a spirit and this part is eternal, is the I am, the experiencer, the will-er.

[Anonymous No.19516054]

>>19515878
>If the measurer can't be measured, than soul is indeterminate such that no rational account can be made of it
This is obviously false. You can't measure my consciousness or empirically determine I have an internal mind of my own but you're pretty sure I do right? To deny the soul is what leads one into irrational positions. The souls existence can be confirmed simply by the fact that denying it leads one to absurd positions. To deny the soul I must accept a fundamentally irrational view of the world and myself, therefore the soul exists.

[Anonymous No.19516056]

>>19515878
You have rational and empirical confused. The soul is not empirical but it sure is rational.

[Anonymous No.19516061]

>>19515878
Cogito Ergo Sum, faggot.

[Anonymous No.19516074]

>>19515677
Adulthood is realizing everything is physical, spirituality and the soul do not exist, while also realizing that the physical is so strange and bizarre that it approximates the spiritual and is nonetheless beautiful and magical. To live spiritually, or to cultivate the soul, is the same as to live in natural harmony with your physical body. The soul is really just an artistic catchword for all the intricate details of a human, his personality, subconscious, vitality. Otherwise the word is either meaningless or without definition. That’s why Plato never proved its existence in the first place. He only tried to show that it’s immortal.

[Anonymous No.19516079]

Eastern philosophy mogs this shit

[Anonymous No.19516095]

>>19516074
Stfu Epicurus, read Bernardo Kastrup and Plato.

"Everything is physical" is a retarded materialist notion. Most people today ascribe to some variant of Realism "mind and matter" or Idealism "all is mind".

The materialist position "all is matter" means even our thoughts are matter. This what materialists actually believe.

Btw if you transition to Realism because of my post you then have to deal with the issue of dualism vs nondualism. How can you believe in two absolutes, two ultimates, etc.? How can they interact with one another without a unifying principle?

Ultimately you will have to accept Metaphysical Idealism.

https://www.amazon.com/Idea-World-Multi-Disciplinary-Argument-Reality/dp/1785357395

This will help you.

[Anonymous No.19516111]

>>19515962
>
The crux of the point I was making is that a thing cannot be defined by the things it conditions or determines or any other sub-conditions (of which the empirical in general is constituted). This obviously doesn't mean it cannot be defined / determined at all. In the highest sense my understanding is that the soul is fundamentally unconditioned (and therefore contingently mortal and immortal), but that is a discussion for another day.

[Anonymous No.19516146]

>>19516052
>The soul is the psyche/mind and we obviously have one
Yes

>and it is obviously temporal and subject to death.
No, read Plato, the Soul is immortal

[Anonymous No.19516164]

>>19516146
>No, read Plato, the Soul is immortal

Plato talks about the spirit there not the soul, unless he explicitly distinguishes between spirit and soul, and still says the soul is immortal.

[Anonymous No.19516201]

>>19516164
How does this fit in with the World Soul being ψυχὴ κόσμου?

[Anonymous No.19516210]

>>19516201
I'm just going to have to re-read Plato desu I get my distinctions of Spirit and Soul from montalk.net and William Walker Atkinson and certain of the Christian traditions that believe in this trichotomy of spirit, soul, and body.

[Anonymous No.19516241]

>>19515685
Define your terms before you write anything about philosophy, lest you just babble on. The Greek psyche and the Christian soul are NOT the same, less so the dozen modern interpretations of the term. Especially since different Greeks had a bit different notions of soul and its qualities.

[Anonymous No.19516246]

>>19515878
Holy shit you're completely retarded

[Anonymous No.19516408]

>>19516056
You're confusing the capacity of the soul for practicing rationality with whether it's rational object. If a rational account can't be given of it, it's not a rational object by definition; its practice of rationality would be accounted for irrationally.

[Anonymous No.19516435]

>>19515716
The christian god, obviously.

[Anonymous No.19517175]

>>19515677
soul is what animates the body by giving it life, and life is not death (but the opposite), therefore it cannot die, so when a body dies its soul go somewhere else and when someone is born the soul of a dead person reincarnates

[Anonymous No.19517214]

>>19517175
actually life is not the opposite of death
life just doesn't support death as number 3 cannot be a pair
I read Phaedo like 4 years ago so

[Anonymous No.19517263]

>>19515791
Explain how is it a measurer? Because I think I have similar idea, my own original thought.

[Anonymous No.19517857]

>>19515677
Read Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.19517887]

>>19517857

[Anonymous No.19517957]

>>19516201
>How does this fit in with the World Soul being ψυχὴ κόσμου?
The World Soul can still be the anima mundi which comprises the minds of all living beings and which links them all together, while at the same there is also an immortal Spirit dwelling in all these beings, transcending even the anima mundi. This distinction is found in Advaita Vedanta in the form of a recognition of the difference between Hiraṇyagarbha and Brahman. The immortal Spirit of the Atman/Brahman is unconditioned, fearless, infinite and immutable and only can be said to be localized or "within" individual beings (the bodies and minds of which are comprised of Hiraṇyagarbha) in an incidental sense, like how space exists both inside and outside pots but was never really "placed" or "entered" into that pot; whereas the World Soul or Hiranyagarbha on the other hand forms the psycho-physical aggregate that is subject to modification and experiences fear, hunger etc.

In this sense, the Spirit is truly immortal and free from any connection with or modification by death, contingencies etc; whereas the World Soul in its individual instantiations as "individual 1" and "individual 2" is non-immortal because these specific instantiations arise in time and pass away, even though the World Soul itself may persist in time sempiternally in the midst of itself being constantly modified. In Timaeus, the anima mundi is created by the Demiurge, in the Vedas and Upanishads, Prajapati (conditioned Brahman) sacrifices himself and becomes Hiraṇyagarbha, allowing the cosmos and creatures to emerge into manifestation.

[Anonymous No.19517996]

>>19516079
How so

[Anonymous No.19518000]

>>19515685
>In scientific terms, there is no soul,
things do not need to be proved scientifically to exist

[Anonymous No.19518008]

>>19515685
>, a theoretical pure human would probably not have a soul, and instead rely on cooperation and logic with no emotions needed to motivate it.
>pure human= literal bugman
ok bro

[Anonymous No.19518088]

>>19517857
What's the point? :^)

[Anonymous No.19518092]

phaedo

[Anonymous No.19518158]

>>19515685
>instead rely on cooperation and logic with no emotions needed to motivate it.
Emotion and motivation are the same thing. You can't derive an ought from an is.

[Anonymous No.19518217]

>>19518158
Also,
>there is no soul
is an unscientific claim. The soul cannot be directly measured which places it outside the domain of scientific inquiry but to assume that reality and scientific applicability share identical boundaries is an ideological misstep that is logically unsound.

[Anonymous No.19519765]

>>19518217
Exactly

[Anonymous No.19520099]

>>19518217

>Materialism, then, is a metaphysics of the rejection of metaphysics. It is an of faith-assumption that nature is a closed system whose every feature is caused by and explainable by matter alone, and that nothing exists beyond the physical order. Naturalism is a picture of the whole of reality that cannot, according to its own intrinsic premises, address the being of the whole; it is a transcendental certainty of the impossibility of transcendental truth, and so requires an act of pure credence logically immune to any verification… Naturalism’s claim that, by confining itself to purely material explanations for all things, it adheres to the only sure path of verifiable knowledge is nothing but a feat of sublimely circular thinking: physics explains everything, which we know because anything physics cannot explain does not exist, which we know because whatever exists must be explicable by physics, which we know because physics explains everything."

[Anonymous No.19520473]

>>19520099
Who is the fat guy?

[Anonymous No.19520486]

>>19520473
David Bentley Hart

[Anonymous No.19520545]

Solve the binding problem, find the soul.
That is what we're talking about after all; Why we feel that bound "me" in all this chatter.

That's my soul, whether its meat games or something outside.