/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19505111]

So according to this man the West will fully collapse by the year 2200, yet if you take a look around today Western people are quickly becoming minorities in their own countries

My question is this - how in the HELL are Western countries supposed to last another 179 years?

[Anonymous No.19505113]

Westerners will disappear within 70 years, max

[Anonymous No.19505123]

>>19505111
When Spengler talks about the West he does not mean Western Europe and North America but rather a specific mode of being within the world. To Spengler something is ‘west’ if it has the Faustian spirit. So when Spengler says Western countries will collapse by 2200, he doesn’t mean that white people will be a demographic minority or the USA will not exist anymore but the Faustian mode of existence in the world and it’s manifestations (concepts of boundless space I.e desire for exploration of outer space or generation of infinite space in the digital sphere) will no longer exist because the Western (Faustian) civilisation is currently in its Winter stage and by the year 2200 will have completed its lifestyle and been replaced by the roots of a completely new zeitgeist.

Literally everything is ‘Western’ in the Spenglerian sense, even places like Indian slums or African villages, so the collapse of western civilisation will spell the emergence of a completely new world zeitgeist.

[Anonymous No.19505201]

>>19505123
I wouldn't say an african village or indian slum is western in Spengler's sense

[Anonymous No.19505214]

>>19505111
They aren't. He was wrong. The era of civilization as a whole is threatened by globalization. Countries like China and India are trying to maintain their civilizational continuity but the West is more than willing to erase their history and embrace global cosmopolitan entropy. The West doesn't function like a civilization and it hasn't for over a century. The entire modern world is built upon the West; in that sense it can't collapse as a spirit but it certainly will (if not already) collapse geopolitically.

[Anonymous No.19505225]

>>19505113
I hope so.

[Anonymous No.19505321]

>>19505123
and how exactly are african refugees (doctors and engineers, of course) supposed to uphold the faustian spirit?
when western white people go, their civilisation goes with them
just like rome

[Anonymous No.19505322]

>>19505123
Does Spengler go into detail about the Faustian spirit, and the other spirits of times that he may have recognised? That sounds interesting.

[Anonymous No.19505334]

>>19505111
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

[Anonymous No.19505340]

>>19505111
there is no need to take his word as gospel
he could not have foreseen the accleration that would occur because of technologies he had no way of comprehending

[Anonymous No.19505366]

>>19505214
The "West" (or more specifically, what we, or at least normies / mainstream authors, think of when one says "The West") is globalization, or more specifically what we think of when we say "globalism" is a capitalistic world economy (see Immanuel Wallerstein's work) populated by liberal "democratic" (oligarchical in practice) states that are intricately connected to the world economy. This is the version of the European experience that we inherited after ww2 and the cold war, i.e., this is "western civilization" as we live it today. To say that the "era of civilization is threatened by globalism" is retarded because it misses this point entirely. The "global cosmopolitan entropy" is inextricably linked to this.

[Anonymous No.19505550]

>>19505123
Based actual Spengler-reader

[Anonymous No.19505578]

>>19505123
wtf i love chinks now

[Anonymous No.19505778]

>>19505111
You might not believe this but we are going to take it all back. Join your local Patriot Front group.

[Anonymous No.19505788]

>>19505778
0/10 bait

[Anonymous No.19505817]

>>19505322
yeah it is literally the whole aim of the book. pick it up and stick with it. it isn't as simple as the wikipedia synopsis readers on 4chan make it seem, but try reading it and don't pussy out when it gets hard. he was a good thinker.

[Anonymous No.19505884]

>>19505123
>>19505550
He doesn’t say this you idiots. You totally misunderstood all his writing on race and nation of this is what you got out of it. He also cited exactly which countries he refers to in an essay for HL Mencken’s magazine. Indian slums and African villages are not Faustian. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous No.19505902]

You want the short answer I guess. In short, such changes are not uncommon in the course of a civilization, especially in the twilight days of a civilization as it transitions to its final form of Caesarism and empire. In fact, there’s a degree to which it’s necessarily part of the process. The conditions which give rise to Caesarism are those which make the democratic system unworkable. In that context, it is both a cause and consequence of the transition period.

But to be clear, Spengler never says that a culture nor a civilization are explicitly racial. While the other poster who suggested African slums are Faustian is totally and completely wrong, a black man in the West, for example, is capable of being Faustian in both a civilizational and cultural sense. Culture and civilization are inexplicably tied to race but it’s not a one and the same sort of thing.

[Anonymous No.19505963]

>>19505322
According to Spengler there were 8 cultures,
Magian (early christians,jew, muslims):
Faustian (western, from 10. century):
Apollonian (Rome and Greek)
Egyptian
Babylonian
Indian
Chinese
Mesoamerican (native Americans)
Each culture is defined by specific perception of the world which is manifested in their art, architecture , science and pihlosophy.
Spengler thought that Russia is proto-culture that will came after West. According to him in Dostoyevsky there are manifested foundations of this new culture.

[Anonymous No.19505985]

>>19505902
And to add to this, Spengler advocated for what he called “Prussian socialism”, which he saw as necessary for the West on the march towards Caesarism and imperium, and he thought that would have to be provided by Germany. Whether that meant only Germany could dominate the age of Caesarism or whether Germany had some other important historical role to play actually isn’t clear, but it does appear that Germany had largely ignored his advice leading up to and through the Second World War. Among the many reasons that Spengler advocated for this was something he called the “coloured peril”. Spengler didn’t live to see the end of the war so we don’t actually know if he thought Germany lived up to its historical destiny in regard to his “Prussian socialism” or what he would’ve thought about Germany’s defeat. We do know that prior to the wars, he did consider America Faustian so if that wouldn’t have changed, we can consider that an aberration has not occurred and current world order we have is indeed Faustian.

Spengler equivocated Prussian socialism with Hellenism of the classical world and the world wars with the Punic wars of Rome and Carthage. Even though Germany might not have lived up to his Prussian ideal, one could see clearly in the analogy in this context that Germany was Carthage and the Allies (led by Britain-America) were Rome. He contrasted Prussian socialism especially with British Marxism and this might suggest that in the end it was British Marxism which one the battle of Roman stoicism vs Carthaginian Hellenism but at times, he suggested that Marxism isn’t even real socialism. He saw it as failing to break the bond of money over blood. We might think then that worst case scenario from Spengler is that British Marxism won, and our Caesarism will necessarily imply a sort of multicultural, multiethnic Marxism but if we’re to believe that Marxism isn’t real socialism then that doesn’t seem to fit either.

Demographic change totally fits with Spengler’s ideas. The question though is what happens next? It’s not clear. He never identified the Allied Powers equivalent to Roman stoicism, which he thought must necessarily be socialist, and he didn’t clearly indicate whether or not Germany’s failure to live up to the Prussian model, defeat, and subsequent British-American world hegemony was an aberration. I think if we could clearly identify the socialism that supplanted German socialism after 1945, we’d have a clearer picture.

Regardless, Spengler also suggested that maybe it doesn’t even matter precisely because of the technology question. But that’s not what you asked.

[Anonymous No.19506011]

Was Spengler right about Russian culture?

[Anonymous No.19506028]

>>19506011
It’s not clear if he was right about Faustian civilization. If he was right about Russian culture, that wouldn’t be clear for many more generations. Spengler said that the Russian was inherently opposed to the machine. So I think it’s safe to assume that if he was right, the Russian culture wouldn’t be able to come into its own until after the machine had lost its grip on Russia at least. As far as I know, Russia is still a fairly highly industrialized nation.

[Anonymous No.19506203]

>>19506028
>>19505963
His view on Russia really interests me, did he make any shorter books about this, or is this thought contained only in Decline of the West?

[Anonymous No.19506217]

>>19506203
I actually do not remember, but I think they were mostly in Decline. Here I should probably state that there is really not that much. There’s been plenty of secondary authorship on this topic though, including some written by Russian academics. For a long time, he was written off as basically Russophobic and obviously there were issues with Russians reading his books prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Anonymous No.19506223]

>>19506217
The Two Faces of Russia

[Anonymous No.19506228]

>>19506223
It was meant for
>>19506203

[Anonymous No.19506327]

>>19505111
>help the white cause
>breed cute asians
I just don't know anymore

[Anonymous No.19506337]

>>19505985
Can we be friends?

[Anonymous No.19506348]

>>19505111
spengler was wrong. there are three predominant cosmovisions that cycle throughtout history. material, spiritual and mixture of both. this was well stablished by pitirim sorokin

in the macro scale the 4 ages also apply (gold, silver, bronze, iron). and within each we can also divide by another 4: i.e. gold of gold, silver of gold, bronze of gold and again more 4 (gold of gold of iron etc). if we consider that entire human cycle corresponding to 4 platonic years (4 x 12960) we well have the length of 5184 years for the iron age, which is assumed to have begun in 3102 B.C.

pic is from robert bolton.

while the iron of iron began in 1564, it is 2030 that marks the beginning ot he last phase ending in 2082. just take the full cycle and divide as the tetraktys. i.e. the last period of the last period will be 1:10 of 1:10

[Anonymous No.19506385]

>>19506348
So what you’re saying is this prediction aligns almost exactly with Spengler’s…?

[Anonymous No.19506430]

>>19506348
And somehow the 31st century BC is what? Iron-or-Iron? The 31 century BC is equivocated to this epoch? How does that make sense?

[Anonymous No.19506494]

>>19506348
We're truly living in the Irony-of-Irony age

[Anonymous No.19506653]

>>19506337
Why?

[Anonymous No.19506671]

>>19506430
3102 BC is gold of iron age. the first phase of the iron age is a mini gold age but not as great as the gold age of the bronze, silver and gold of course. the gold age of the gold age will be above the gold age of the previous ages like the silver age of the gold age will be above the gold age of the silver age

>>19506348
so considering the iron age began in 3102 B.C., we have the last age in it to last 1:10, 518 years, and the 518 years can be further divided by another 4 mini cycles:

‘Golden age’ 1564 – 1770 206 years
‘Silver age’ 1770 – 1926 156 years
‘Bronze age’ 1926 – 2030 104 years
‘Iron age’ 2030 – 2082 52 years

The first internal date here, 1770, is appropriate for the onset of the Industrial Revolution, and however localized it was at the time, its later impact on the rest of the world makes it a significant point in the historical process.

The second date, 1926, is at least near the beginning of the new era following the First World War, the aftermath of which saw the end of Europe’s thousand-year order of its imperial monarchies. (In early Christianity, prayers for the Emperor were justified on the grounds that the end of the Empire was believed to herald the reign of the Antichrist, and tradition maintained this view.) This new order was completed by the political East-West polarization owing to Russian communism which prevailed for over seventy years. The date at which this period ends, 2030, is a realistic date for the completion of the transition from one Platonic month to another, that is, from the Piscean to the Aquarian ages. This would give a date of 130 bc (i.e., 2,160–2,030 = 130), for the beginning of the Piscean Age, though these dates cannot be precise because the 30-degree arcs assigned to each sign of the zodiac cannot be positioned definitively, owing to the shapes of the constellations.

[Anonymous No.19506697]

about the mini cycles see pic

[Anonymous No.19506705]

>>19505225
How could anyone ever want that? Look around you, wherever in the world you are, everything is a product of the ingenuity of Western man. The gooks and the pajeets could maybe uphold the technological infrastructure for some time, but everything eventually goes down with us when we disappear.

[Anonymous No.19506710]

>>19506223
>>19506223
thanks

[Anonymous No.19506718]

>>19506705
>Look around you, wherever in the world you are, everything is a product of the ingenuity of Western man
that would be all to convenient to explain why the world is rapidly degenerating

[Anonymous No.19506723]

There are no good or bad ideas. There is only right and wrong and ideas need to be tested against the laws of reality. We shouldn't be afraid to test unorthodox theories out if they may be able to address the problems of our age.

[Anonymous No.19506728]

>>19506705
we live in the last times, bro, it is only natural that we ask: Lord please come and end this miserable degenerate world.

the fact the world begins at the best state and degenerates is biblical

[Anonymous No.19506731]

>>19506671
And that means the 31st century BC was an Iron of Bronze Age I guess. So you’re suggesting to me that the next Gold of Gold age, the greatest of all the ages, is supposed to start around 2082 and we just happen to have been born and fated to die in the worst possible age of what? Several tens or hundreds of thousands of years at least?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19506742]

>>19505111
>Western countries
>Western countries
>Western countries
>Western countries
Artificial categorizations and this thread is pol bait about butthurt white supremacy.
The man was just as accurate as an astrologer. So what? We don’t need threads like this here.

[Anonymous No.19506747]

>>19506731
>And that means the 31st century BC was an Iron of Bronze Age I guess
yes.

>So you’re suggesting to me that the next Gold of Gold age, the greatest of all the ages, is supposed to start around 2082
i'm not convinced of the cycle's recurrence. to begin and end makes it a cycle already so in that sense the cyclic theory can be applied, but i'm not convinced it goes on ad aeternum. for that we should consider the world to be ab aeterno which i do not believe

[Anonymous No.19506750]

>>19506705
Spengler himself predicted Western man himself will want that. The irony is the same Western technics that allowed Western man to dominate the world created systems which enslave Western man, and he suggested Western man would come to despise the civilization he built for himself for that reason. If you ask me, we see exactly that. The system of the machine neared it’s completion in the internet age since the 1990s-2010s (conveniently exactly one of the bookmark periods that Spengler laid out for Westerb civilization) and along the way we’ve seen early signs in characters like Ted K. and thus transformation into pervasive internet memes such as “return to monke”, which are shrouded in irony and humor but nonetheless herald a certain sentiment about civilization at large. Western civilization was always fated to enslave itself (and everyone else actually) because of Western technology. What will come of that is anyone’s guess but my point is to answer your question, Who would want that?” Spengler seems to think that eventually, almost everyone will want it.

[Anonymous No.19506759]

>>19506747
The conclusion is the same regardless. You would have me believe that I happened to be born and fated to die in the worst possible time to be born and fated to die in, either relatively speaking or in an absolute sense.

[Anonymous No.19506790]

>>19506718
Not him, but that isn't the only reason, you simpleton.
What he was saying is that the actual infrastructure and all the other wonders of the western world won't be maintained to the degree they could be with us alone. Don't believe me? Go live in Detroit, or Philly, Baltimore, Compton, Newark, Camden, Chicago, etc. Take your pick.

[Anonymous No.19506792]

>>19506742
If you’re not interested, don’t enter, don’t reply. You seemingly cannot help yourself. What does your astrology chart say about it? Spengler characterized you well.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19506819]

>>19506792
I don’t believe you or anyone ITT understands me or my perspective on such matters.

[Anonymous No.19506826]

>>19506819
I don’t understand people who can’t understand, correct.

[Anonymous No.19506829]

>>19505111
There's no such thing as western civilization

[Anonymous No.19506845]

>>19506759
the fact we were born in the last times can be good if we strive for the good. that's the meaning of jesus's words: the last will be the first --- see the parable of those called in the last hour. it is more meritorious to be saint in the iron age than in the golden age, since in that everyone is already in the state of sanctity.

[Anonymous No.19506853]

>>19506845
Well, we don’t have any saints so…

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19506858]

>>19506826
>people who can’t understand
I understood OP fine.

[Anonymous No.19506869]

>>19505321
Whites are the genetic bourgeoisie. Read Marx, he describes how the bourgeoisie class was needed to move society from the feudal stage to the capitalist stage. The next transition would be where the bourgeoisie would be overthrown by the new revolutionary class, the proletariat. In the same exact way, the white race, the genetic bourgeoisie, must be overthrown by the rest of the races, the genetic proletariat. This is how the transition from capitalism to socialism will occur. So civilization will be fine without whites, and in fact the decline of the white race is a necessity for the transition to socialism to occur.

[Anonymous No.19506885]

>>19506790
There’s probably some truth to that but if we stick to Spengler’s ideas (we should unless we declare what’s our own) then he doesn’t suggest anywhere that non-Western people are incapable of using or maintaining Western technology. In fact, in Chinese man and especially in the Japanese, we almost see a refinement of Western “infrastructure” and highly maintenance. The distinction lies in the fact that while non-Western civilizations can use Western technology and in some cases even improve it and/or use it better, they don’t identify with it and inwardly find it foreign. So he doesn’t necessarily think everything will come tumbling down we’re Western man to disappear from the scene, but it certainly could happen precisely because it’s central to Western man and Western man alone.

[Anonymous No.19506926]

>>19506750
>was always fated
What if we made it to space?

[Anonymous No.19506928]

On the off chance there are any readers of Decline here, can someone point me to where in the book Spengler suggests the dynamic of a pseudomorphosis and specifically whether or not it must come from another (living or dead) culture or civilization. He states clearly that he saw Medieval Christianity and Soviet Communism as pseudomorphoses for their respective cultures but I can’t find anything to suggest clearly that the West doesn’t currently lie under a pseudomorphosis, which I think is possible.

[Anonymous No.19506930]

>>19506926
We’ve already made it to space. Western man stood on the moon in 1969.

[Anonymous No.19506945]

>>19506869
We both know who the genetic bourgeoisie actually is...and the ongoing and upcoming revolution will be fake and gay.

[Anonymous No.19506961]

>>19506858
But not the author in question, which is typically the problem for the record.

[Anonymous No.19506992]

>>19506928
In the early part of volume 1 he suggests that maybe a Gothic form of christianity will take hole of Europe similar to the Anabaptists

[Anonymous No.19506997]

>>19505111
>>19505113
Reminder that we are still on course for the Star Trek timeline.

As well as the fallout timeline.

[Anonymous No.19507005]

>>19506992
I’m aware of that, but I don’t think that’s correct nor is it what I’m scratching at really to be honest.

[Anonymous No.19507015]

>>19506869
That whole thing is honestly fucking moronic. Who makes this shit up?

[Anonymous No.19507018]

>>19505778
>Patriot Front
you are a fucking glowie

[Anonymous No.19507045]

>>19507005
Well to be honest. I'm only half way through Volume 1 at the moment. But I get the feeling he pretty much has given up on western culture as a hole. So I'm thinking he was making an educated guess, but we shouldn't take his word.

[Anonymous No.19507059]

>>19506997
There's no way we're in the Star Trek timeline with how divided we still are...

[Anonymous No.19507069]

>>19507045
I don’t think he did give up and I think you’ll get a sense of that if you keep reading, but I also think that for all his gifts he necessarily wasn’t able to get a full picture of his own time and it’s precisely his own time which we can use as a rubric. Certain instances of movement in this or that direction can, in retrospect, suggest something of the present and the future. Spengler necessarily wasn’t able to see these, but we can. That’s why I don’t think he was right about the Anabaptists, but there are other places I think we see signs of something.

[Anonymous No.19507091]

>>19505111
>Western people are quickly becoming minorities in their own countries
lol

[Anonymous No.19507139]

>>19507069
Then what do you think hes getting at? What are his proposals? He spends alot of time over analyzing certain aspects of cultural ideas and how each civilization dies in unique ways. How each civilization has it's own unique form of atheism. But he doesn't strike a very optimistic man. I assume he meant that once civilization dies. It dies for good. Like any creature

[Anonymous No.19507198]

>>19506885
Perhaps, but the Japanese aren't the ones replacing the western population.

[Anonymous No.19507203]

>>19507139
Well, I don’t think he really cares if it ultimately dies or ossifies and goes on for eternity in a terminal state and to be clear he is pessimistic, but his pessimism is a courageous pessimism. Spengler doesn’t think he can say for certain what fate awaits Western civilization. No one can. But he does think he’s correct in describing the times and general trajectory. The man himself appears as a frustrated poet and metaphysician. For all his exaltation of the man of fact, he was not clearly one, not entirely. I think Spengler wants people who would be frustrated by the state of things to accept cold reality and run with it. He says that while creative possibilities in art, for example, might be exhausted and while great art can scarcely be made without tremendous effort, creative possibilities still exist in the realms of economy, law, war, politics. So I think he’s a pessimistic because he thinks the best part is over, but the book hasn’t been finished yet. The final chapters have yet to conclude and men who would aspire to some sort of greatness would do well to write the chapters as they must necessarily be written. He says on one hand, that he prefers studying the great Roman roads and aqueducts to Roman art and so any individual Roman would’ve done a cosmic disservice by devoting themselves to art over roads and aqueducts in his view. He’s calling us to do basically the same. So on one hand, men have a certain role to play but on the other men can devote their will in one direction or another. The ideals to strive for at this point are a Caesar, a legionnaire, and ultimately the Roman soldier at Pompeii because in light of everything a dignified and noble end is the one thing that can’t be taken away. I don’t know if Spengler is right about all that, but I do think that’s what he’s getting at to some degree. That’s not a resignation, but trying to do the best with what you’ve got.

[Anonymous No.19507220]

>>19507091
Shalom

[Anonymous No.19507225]

>>19507203
And to add my personal opinion to this, I think we live in a difficult time, not because of a lack of possibilities but a lack of clarity. Was he right or wasn’t he? Is technology an aberration or isn’t it? Are we dominated by it or aren’t we? My sentiment is that in normal times creative possibilities do exist in economy, law, politics, and so on for epoch but the technology question has thrown a wrench into things. If Spengler’s right, we live in the twilight days of the Republic, where systems become increasingly unworkable and unnavigable. At the same time, we live in a time of nearby perfected technology, and there’s an air of an oppressive sort of system filled with little, meaningless rules that do nothing really but to diminish people and render them helpless, inert. So it’s a challenging time and it’s not at all clear what we should do even if we accept his diagnosis and his prognosis.

[Anonymous No.19507235]

>>19507198
And neither had the Kingdom of Pontus replaced the Romans. It was people from all over Africa and the Middle East and yet Rome didn’t fall for some time. The number of non-Romans in Rome at one time reached a very high number.

[Anonymous No.19507293]

I suggest you all in addition to this book read a more contemporary analysis: America against America by Wang Huning... He analyzed and predicted many trends of American society from the perspective of an outsider
https://ia801806.us.archive.org/12/items/america-against-america/America%20Against%20America.pdf
> Aristotle said more than 2,000 years ago that the family is the cell of
> society. In the years since the war, the cell, the family, has
> disintegrated in the United States. On the surface, the family is still
> the cell of society, but in reality, the real cell of society in the
> United States is the individual. Family organization and the concept of
> the family are accelerating this process of disintegration. The overly
> traditional family is too tightly bound to the individual and is not
> conducive to his or her development. But is an excessively loose family
> conducive to social progress? The family could have reconciled a number
> of interpersonal conflicts and relationships. After the family is
> divided, these conflicts will have to be left to society.
> The government bears a heavy burden due to family fragmentation, from
> children's education to elderly issues. This has become a major burden
> for economic and social development. But today, with the increasing
> fragmentation of family organization, this burden is likely to get
> bigger and bigger. All the government can provide is the material
> conditions; who will regulate the emotional problems? The fragmentation
> of the family has deprived society of many human feelings, which is
> also detrimental to a harmonious society.
> Many people are also worried about the evolution of the family. One
> example of this is the neoconservative mindset. Neoconservatism
> emphasizes the role of the family, and many people want the family to
> pass on basic norms such as religion, morality, and ethics. But it is
> not easy to do so with such mechanisms in American society.
> Whether society is better off with individuals as cells or with
> families as cells, and how families should be formed, have different
> ideas in different cultures. American society to this day still has the
> family as the base unit of society. But in spirit, the family is being
> hollowed out, while society has not yet developed a complete regulatory
> mechanism with the individual as the cell. Two final questions to ask.
> Is human nature adapted to living a life with or without family emotions?

[Anonymous No.19507306]

>>19506869
Wow that's cool. Do you mind if I just nuke the planet before this happens?

[Anonymous No.19507325]

>>19507293
>https://ia801806.us.archive.org/12/items/america-against-america/America%20Against%20America.pdf
> Americans tend to demystify, but they also tend to sacralize the most. Sacralization is still not deification because it involvesrelationships between people. Americans rarely deify anything. In somesocieties, a thing is often deified when it reaches beyond thecapabilities of ordinary people. Such as the phenomena depicted by the author of "The Car of the Gods". Some people on the Pacific islands deified the accidental landing of a U.S. Army plane during World War II by making a realistic plane out of wood and worshiping it. In many societies, witch doctors have a mystical feel. American society does not have such a culture, and while there have been cases of mass suicides of hundreds of people like the People's Temple Church, these are rare. The American nation does not tend to mystify or deify, but it has a special nature that I call "sacralization.”
> What is "sacralization"? Sanctification is first and foremost a secular domain. It is of a cultic nature, but it is not a religious cult. The process of sanctification is the elevation of an earthly phenomenon to a very high status. This process is not initiated by any one person or organization, but is a process of socialization. Let's look at specific examples of what I call sacralization before we analyze the social function of this phenomenon.
> The American nation is a race that is very susceptible to emotional impulses, and a people that is very receptive to external things. Sacralization can be seen in the political arena. The National Convention of both parties is a typical manifestation of this sanctification. The enthusiasm, the excitement, the genuine emotion of the people in the room was a rare emotional resonance. The candidates of the two parties. Both candidates of the two parties will be warmly welcomed in this venue. When they come out, people can cheer for as long as ten minutes. Their speeches are constantly interrupted by applause and cheers. Throughout the campaign, candidates of both parties are greeted in this way wherever they go. As usual in such an individualistic and egalitarian culture, it is difficult for anindividual to be adored in this way. One of the reasons for this is that they are sanctified, they are just a symbol, a symbol of a culture or a goal that everyone is pursuing. People are more in pursuit of a sanctified spirit.

[Anonymous No.19507328]

>>19505123
colonialism was still full on force when he died so that comparison doesn´t make sense anymore, china and india aren´t part of western civilization

[Anonymous No.19507333]

>>19507306
it's bait obv

[Anonymous No.19507339]

>>19507225
very interesting opinion

[Anonymous No.19507346]

>>19505111
>western x
>western y

There is no fucking west.

[Anonymous No.19507362]

>>19507306
Kek

[Anonymous No.19507374]

> there is no West
Spend some time in Russia, Turkey, North Africa, and Sub-Sahara Africa followed by Germany, England, and America. Then say “there is no West”with a straight face.

[Anonymous No.19507377]

>>19506742
All language is an artificial construct, dipshit, that doesn't mean the concepts thus compartmentalized don't have merit. "Gravity" huh whuh bro that's just a language construct lmao just float like me lol

[Anonymous No.19507389]

>>19507328
during this period Chinese scholars were utilizing western ideas to criticize the traditional Chinese culture, confucianism, and social order as a whole
for example one scholar, 康有為 kang youwei wrote a book called 'the book of the great unity' 大同書 (https://ia800203.us.archive.org/12/items/ServingThePeopleWithDialectics/TaTungShuTheOne-worldPhilosophy.pdf)) which was an early precursor of more revolutionary movements such as the import of foreign marxism, representative democracy, anti-monarchism etc. marxism as a materialist philosophy was obviously used to counter the idealist philosophy of traditional confucianism as well as to point out the hypocrisy of the ruling class during the late qing dynasty. another revolutionary movement that predates marxism in china was the rise of a heretical christian kingdom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom)) which actually attempted to reorganize china on its own syncretic mixture of protestant christianity and chinese folk religion. these paroxysms made many feel that chinese culture and civilization itself were on the edge of irreversible decline during the past 2 centuries

[Anonymous No.19507397]

>>19507220
I have a forskin, try again

[Anonymous No.19507402]

>>19507389
so? chinaman can use whatever western tech they want, it doesn´t mean they themselves are western, they´re an alien culture

[Anonymous No.19507405]

>>19507389
the may fourth movement was the culmination of this impulse; intellectual currents especially amongst youth reached a peak and demanded modernization (westernization) and even such radical proposals as abandoning chinese characters altogether were stated. later the apex of self-criticism within chinese culture was reached with a new height in the cultural revolution
westernization was viewed as the trend that the rest of the world would follow during spengler's lifetime

[Anonymous No.19507408]

Spengler also predicted the soldiers of the 50 cent army who pop up in threads like this too by the way. They are equivalent to those who spread discord in Rome on behalf of the Kingdom of Pontus prior to the Mithradatic Wars. Just in case anyone was wondering.

[Anonymous No.19507489]

>>19507325
>>19507225
transhumanism is very faustian because it attempts to escape death through technology. but as spengler writes, all this technology etc is the futile attempt by the faustian man to avoid his own undoing. the west emerged from magian civilization

[Anonymous No.19507506]

>>19507489
the middle east seems shit rn. but their religion is still strong, their civilizational spirit is still intact despite their geopolitical division. they are the sleeping giant of the 21st century in that the revival of islamic civilization in the coming 200 years will shake the world just as the more contemporary rise of china

[Anonymous No.19507528]

>>19505111
Why don't you read the book and find out, since it's clear that you didn't read it. Fucking retard, you have the historical perspective of a goldfish.

[Anonymous No.19507549]

>>19507489
The West did not “emerge” from Magian civilization. I’m not even sure what exactly you mean by that, but it sure seems incorrect on the face of it. Moreover, there will be no revival of Islamic civilization nor will Western civilization ever truly be Islamic. There was a time where that was a possibility when the Umayyads attempted to establish a French caliphate but that time is over and Islamic world of today is less vigorous and more monolithic.

[Anonymous No.19507765]

the west will end in 2400

[Anonymous No.19507775]

>>19507506
>they are the sleeping giant of the 21st century

not really, india could be a potential power by the next century but arab countries are spoiled shitholes, i don´t even have to mention that since climate change, they´ll have severe water crisis while at the same time overpopulation, the only potential power in the islamic world is turkey and they have a laughable economy

[Anonymous No.19507854]

>>19507203
> Courageous Pessimism

That's a very interesting choice of words. I would rather tell me that in a few pages rather than 30 pages. But then again alot metaphysians (especially German philosophy) has a habit of being too other worldly. Maybe I just dont appreciate.

So okay. Spengler just says make do whit what you have? So that means we have a start new civilization all over again?

[Anonymous No.19507942]

>>19505366
If liberal democracy and capitalism are the essence of western civilization then the entire world is the west. If anything threatens to destroy this “civilization” then its climate change, not a natural cycle of decline

[Anonymous No.19507986]

>>19507854
If he’s to be believed in his diagnosis and prognosis, then basically, he would have his readers devote themselves industry, law, politics, and the military. All of those things which are characteristic of a late civilization, Spengler would have you strive towards. He would not have you start a new civilization, which is an impossibility anyway, but would rather have you understand that the time of Western Caesarism and by way of Caesarism, imperium is approaching so all of these things he would have you devote yourself to will need to be worked out or actualized in order to make sure that in the final analysis Western civilization will have made itself one of the great civilizations of world history and yourself one of its great men.

[Anonymous No.19507995]

>>19507942
They’re not the essences of Western civilization.

[Anonymous No.19508131]

Have there been examples of civilizations which were killed by another culture or civilization before it was approaching it’s terminal phase? For the West, impending war with both or either Russia or China could spell the end long before 2200.

[Anonymous No.19508152]

>>19505111
Do not fear, anons. Caesarism has come.

[Anonymous No.19508157]

We are at a point where our civilization is dying out and it's only a matter of time before its all done. We are just not ready to accept the end. We are afraid of who we have become and what we are leaving our children and grandchildren with. If you think that your race and people will be remembered long after the rest, you're wrong. It will be ancient ruins. Dust in the wind. Just live your life and surf the kali yuga.

[Anonymous No.19508182]

>>19508157
Our people cannot die. I refuse to believe it

[Anonymous No.19508195]

>>19508182
it's strange to me seeing so many white people give up on our systems because there are a few more brown faces in them. what a bunch of useless cunts

[Anonymous No.19508206]

>>19508152
Who is this cholo? Looks like a democrat. The faustian Caesar will be a neorreactionary and he will come from the less expected place and in a few years he will amass an amount of power and wealth that will turn the world upside down.

[Anonymous No.19508208]

>>19508195
Have you considered what they’re really unhappy with is the system rather just it’s color?

[Anonymous No.19508233]

>Hear about this Spengler fellow
>Aryan
>wrote about the decline of the Western culture
>Adi supposedly thought he was alright
>sounds redpill AF

>actually read him
>doesn't speak at all about the racial conflict
>literally NOTHING on the JQ
>instead it's all like metaphysical bullshit with modes of thought and evolving approaches in cultural perception of concepts
>describes the eventual replacement of the Western as something that is inevitable and ultimately ok
Wtf guys I though he was based instead it's like a pomo eurocuck before the actual pomo eurocucks!

[Anonymous No.19508249]

>>19508157
defeatist cuck

[Anonymous No.19508265]

>>19508208
grass is greener etc, there is just no loyalty, just a bunch of soi gamers who want to restart instead of work

[Anonymous No.19508272]

>>19508233
He talks about racial conflict a bit in his other books, but yes hes not exactly right wing. It's not pomo though; there is an unambiguous central framework to his metaphysics. The relativism he describes as existing from culture to culture is underpinned by a single system.

[Anonymous No.19508324]

>>19507328
21st cen. prediction: when the U.S. collapses, Russia will be willing to accept white refugees to build up its Far East.

[Anonymous No.19508337]

>>19508131
Yes the Mesoamericans were destroyed when the Faustians completely overran them.

Below is not from Spengler it is my opinion.
I don't think China is in any position to actually destroy anyone, they were long ago ossified. Russia is just waking up as a culture, likely in its pre-culture phase right now and so I think ti could easily overthrow/overrun an exhausted Faustian civilization in the future.
Worth noting that if you take any talk of climate change seriously Russia stands to benefit the most by a massive margin, tons of untapped resources, far better agricultural output, one of the only places on the planet where its population enters are not coastal but inland.

[Anonymous No.19508345]

>>19508265
Loyalty to what? Machines and democratic politics? Science? What are you even referring to?

[Anonymous No.19508353]

>>19508233
He does write about race and mention Jews. You didn’t even read the book or you’re just upset he didn’t confirm your preconceived biases.

[Anonymous No.19508367]

>>19508345
yes

[Anonymous No.19508391]

>>19508131
Yeah. Magian Man murdered Sumerian Man and Apollonian Man, and Apollonian Man murdered Egyptian Man. Russia and China will do nothing to Faustian Man, they can't. The sort of global war that that would require is something that they're incapable of prosecuting. Russia at its height (thus far) couldn't even run a navy without the US's help, and today they can't even run an economy without the US's help. China, likewise, is utterly dependent upon the US for its economy. The death of Faustian Man will occur when Jewish International Finance moves back to Europe.

>>19507854
Spengler is a technical philosopher. He postulates CIVILZATIONE and KULTURE, both of which are two stages of a specific thing. tl;dr there's these higher-dimensional mind-funguses that live in your brain and control how you see space-time. There's some kind of form in nature that you then find some kind of material manifestation of. Faustian Man sees the cosmos as a 3D grid with a vector moving through it. Ancient forests inspired Faustian Man, and in mimicry of this fundamental conception of the world they built the Gothic Cathedral (in both cases, space is full of "Stuff" in all three spatial dimensions).

Spengler's CIVILIZATIONE is not "Western Civilization". Rather, it's actually BAD. CIVILIZATIONE is the end-state after ossification begins. KULTURE, meanwhile, is the young and fruitful stage. AFTER the full transition to CIVILIZATIONE has occurred, however, these brain-funguses can last forever. They don't "die". That's the problem with >>19507765, which implies some kind of Indo-European cyclical history rather than the progression of semi-organic ideal beings. Chinese Man and Indian Man both achieved the final ossification of CIVILIZATIONE in 200AD and 200BC, respectively. All this means is that they have a totalizing worldview concerning space-time that is able to completely absorb and repurpose anything to its own ends (see: Mao explaining Dialectical Materialism as just being the Tao, and Marxist-Leninist Thought as Ru). The problem with Faustian Man is that it is reliant upon infinite growth, and when that falls apart, so does Faustian Man. Whites revert to Fellaheen (people who aren't possessed by brain-fungus; example, the Mongols).

Spengler says that if you, YOU PERSONALLY, want to go down in history, you basically have to do what Musk, Bezos, and Gates are doing now (make increasingly bigger toys).

[Anonymous No.19508395]

>>19508337
Mesoamerican doesn’t fit because it’s not clear if the people in question were even mesoamerican or remnants from another civilization snd if they were just that, remnants and not the core civilization itself. Either way, the civilization in question had long reached its terminal phase so it doesn’t satisfy the question. The climate change thing is a good point and I agree, but I’m also thinking of a scenario where Western civilization is simply put down early by Russian, Chinese, or any other coalition. I think that’s possible but I don’t know if that’s ever happened. The thing is, in Faustian epochs these wars are largely no longer fought by their civilizations but by their machinations. The vigor and energy of a culture or civilization matters little in the face of nuclear ICBMs.

[Anonymous No.19508400]

The West collapsed with Rome.

[Anonymous No.19508401]

>>19508391
I disagree with your assessment of Russia and China entirely but to the point of the question, which of those civilizations that were murdered were murdered long before they reached their terminal phase?

[Anonymous No.19508418]

>>19508391
>Spengler says that if you, YOU PERSONALLY, want to go down in history, you basically have to do what Musk, Bezos, and Gates are doing now (make increasingly bigger toys).
He does not.

[Anonymous No.19508434]

>>19508233
“Pomo” is just leftists trying to ape Nazi philosophy.

[Anonymous No.19508517]

>>19508401
Apollonian Man murdered
>Egyptian Man, who had achieved 100% CIVILIZATIONE

Magian Man murdered
>Sumerian Man, who had not fully completed CIVILIZATIONE
>Apollonian Man, who was nearing the end but still not completely taken over by CIVILIZATIONE

Faustian Man murdred
>Mesoamerican Man, who had not yet entered CIVILIZATIONE and was still in KULTURE.

Anyways, while I agree with Spengler here for different reasons, this is his analysis. The entire idea of "global warfare" is a Faustian idea. Russians and the Chinese are incapable of it.

>>19508418
Yes he does. That's the entire point of Technics. We're in the "end of form-development" period, where "meaningless, empty, artificial, pretentious architechture and ornament" dominates. It's all "imitation of archaic and exotic motivations". The theaters, the fora, the thermae, the colonades, the arches, the colonies, the amphitheatres, the aqueducts. It's all meaningless material heaped up in increasingly complex patterns. Musk, Bezos, and Gates are doing that. That's how you go down AT THIS STAGE IN THE GAME: by making the bigger toy.

The charts are in the 1928 edition of Decline btw. You can get it on Libgen. It's the one with the bluecover, there's an .epub up.

[Anonymous No.19508522]

>>19505111

Spengler was another run-of-the-mill academic historian who has no understanding of the vital role energy resources and their costs and availability played at the heart of ANY civilisation and his two volume opus is therefore false in all its conclusions and sits as giant a paperweight now as when the day it was published.

>My question is this - how in the HELL are Western countries supposed to last another 179 years?

They won't. And those countries East, South, and North won't either. Because they are all part of a GLOBAL economy entirely reliant on, formerly cheap and abundant, fossil fuels that are diminishing in tapped reserves and are now increasingly more expensive to extract from new sources. The end of the decade will look and function very poorly in comparison to all years prior.

[Anonymous No.19508550]

>>19508152
Of all the Caesar-like figures that have appeared lately, this guy is the only one who seems like he could be the real deal. Doubt he can become our Caesar though, because he comes from a shithole, but our Caesar will be a lot like him, and not so much like Trump.

[Anonymous No.19508558]

>>19508522
>le peak oil
Haven't seen one of you in years kek

[Anonymous No.19508561]

>>19508517
No, he doesn’t. These are figures which correspond to a late phase of the Democratic stage of civilization, where money rules above all else and these 3 figures in particular we see exactly that. All 3 have enormous wealth and little else. They pale in comparison even to the early modern industrialists from a technical point of view. That stage is coming to a close as the stage of Caesarism approaches, it’s defining characteristic will be the breaking of the bond of money and it’s stranglehold over the civilization. From here on out, pretenses are dropped, the political supersedes the economic, and politics is about power. Moreover, these figures will not be bookmarks of Faustian civilization in the final analysis anyway. As I said, they are nothing more than figures which amassed massive amounts of money and refined technical processes to some degree. They haven’t fundamentally changed anything and aren’t noteworthy beyond their bank accounts. If you were to offer someone advice on what they should to do be remembered (which isn’t even what Spengler advocates for necessarily I might add) it would be push towards this breaking of the bonds of money, not to amass it yourself, which becomes increasingly untenable at this stage anyway. You have a misunderstanding.

[Anonymous No.19508569]

>>19508561
Take it up with Spengler, it's his theory, not mine.

[Anonymous No.19508574]

>>19508517
Spengler never said Russians or Chinese are incapable of waging global warfare. And to be clear, you still didn’t answer the question and actually some of what you said was just blatantly wrong, as is the case with many Spengler “readers” unfortunately. You should read your copy again, if you have it.

[Anonymous No.19508585]

>>19508522
Spengler addressed it his peak oil and finite fossil fuels argument in an essay and it matters little since he could still be right even if fossil fuels disappeared tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.19508586]

>>19508152
The BTC city guy? LMAO. Our Caesar is Musk. ALL HAIL DOGE.

[Anonymous No.19508595]

>>19508569
He doesn’t say that either in your picture or in the book. He says exactly the opposite. The period from 100 BC to 100 AD corresponds with Caesarism and our year 2000+. Your reading is simply incorrect.

[Anonymous No.19508701]

>>19508595
Right well, as I said, feel free to take it up with Spengler. The book is free, I've told you where you can get a copy, at the end of the day pointed out where Spengler says what he says and you... well, you threw a temper tantrum because I dared to imply that cringe soislurpers like Bezos and Musk will be remembered by the history books.

>>19508574
Spengler explicitly says both. The entire idea of "a navy" is itself a Faustian one, to say nothing of global warfare. inb4
>hurr durr i havent read spengler but the romans had a navy durrrr
Faustian Man and Apollonian Man aren't the same thing. Anyways, the question was answered, Mesoamerican Man was killed off while still only Kulture.

Are you Russian, by chance? I've noticed that Russians REALLY don't like Spengler. He chuffs their ethnonarcissism by implying that they aren't French, and you seem pretty butthurt about this whole "Russians can't engage in global warfare without the CIA literally giving them weapons" thing.

[Anonymous No.19508715]

>>19508701
> you’re interpretation of X is wrong
> “take it up with X then!”
Idiot.

[Anonymous No.19508723]

>>19508395
I've always seen the Mesoamerican civilization as accurate because it begins with Olmec's -> Maya -> Aztecs. Which maps with Mycenaean -> Greek -> Roman. Though this does leave the question of Inca's. The reading I have done about the mesoamerican cultures backs this up.
The Maya lived in a bunch of city states with shifting alliances and the Aztecs were a mass conquering empire uniting multiple mesoamerican ethnicities/tribes and completely obsessed with spectacle, everything they did was grand. If this is true then it had died culturally but there was likely still time on the clock for Aztec-led civilization before Faustian man showed up.
I am by no means a historian of these peoples so take it all with a grain of salt.


As far as being cut down early I still don't think any other living civilization has the capacity to do that, even a united Russia and China. For the record I do think they can win upcoming conflicts, I just think that they can't destroy Faustian man. Controversially, I think Western man is actually going to have a come-up by the end of this century as we transition from this unstable social crises period towards an Augustan age.

[Anonymous No.19508730]

>>19508715
>spengler interpreted spengler wrong
that is a hot take right there

[Anonymous No.19508732]

>>19508730
You’re Oswald Spengler, huh?

[Anonymous No.19508745]

>>19508723
>Controversially, I think Western man is actually going to have a come-up by the end of this century as we transition from this unstable social crises period towards an Augustan age.
I agree with that. I still personally think the technology question is a big one.

[Anonymous No.19508755]

>>19508723
In terms of culture and civilization in non-Spenglerian terms the Aztec and Maya are two poles of a multi-polar Mesoamerican world, with there being many more poles that don't get much time in the sun. Ignoring everything north of Mexico (because this gets into "What are culture and civilization" and that leads to dumb dumbs saying that the Inuit don't have a culture because they lived in igloos and they weren't civilized because they didn't farm), it's pretty clear though that there are at least two other major civilizations in South America, the Inca and the Amazon Basin civilization (who got absolutely WRECKT by the Spanish, more so than any other group).

We should remember that "Mesoamerican" does not just mean "Aztec", and as you point out there was a porous border between "Maya" and "Aztec". As with "the West" being composed of Frenchmen, Germans, Danes, Scots, Italians, etc, we can and should then see that "Mesoamerica" means "Aztecs, Mayans, Zapotecs, Otomi, etc".

[Anonymous No.19508759]

>>19508723
>As far as being cut down early I still don't think any other living civilization has the capacity to do that, even a united Russia and China.
Actually, in the essay which was mentioned earlier in the thread on the two faces of Russia, he seems to suggest that such a thing was possible at the time of writing.

[Anonymous No.19508766]

>>19508522
>run-of-the-mill academic historian

He is literally the opposite of this and makes it clear as day. Why bother psychoanalyzing him in a thread if you haven't read him and don't know the first thing about his theories.

[Anonymous No.19508770]

>>19508561
Good post

[Anonymous No.19508779]

>>19508732
well the dude that you are getting butthurt about was quoting spenglers timeline and literally posted a table quoting spenglers timeline

[Anonymous No.19508793]

>>19508745
100%
this video addresses his later work where he begins to comment on this (but dies before he finishes) fairly well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt_rnVA7AlM
Definitely check out his later work. It seems like he believes the destiny of Western man and his Technics is to build the gun that will shoot himself (and maybe the whole world with it).

[Anonymous No.19508797]

>>19508779
First of all, I’m not butthurt. He answered the question incorrectly and I’m simply pointing out that he’s wrong. Second, he didn’t quote or cite anything. He provided a picture which actually affirms exactly what I said. Almost everything he’s suggested is wrong. He’s taken a basic understanding of the book, it’s ideas, and terms and run away with incorrect assumptions. He can go on thinking he’s correct if he wants to and in the end he might be, but the point stands that it’s not what the book says or suggests anywhere.

[Anonymous No.19508809]

>>19508779
Bad post. Some random sperg who has never read Spengler and thinks "Faustian Man" means "crusaders retaking Constantinople for racism" knows more about Oswald Spengler's thought than Oswald Spengler did.

[Anonymous No.19508815]

>>19505334
Shit we are in final the month of one of them. Guess its any day now bros.

[Anonymous No.19508816]

>>19508793
I’ve seen this. Actually, there’s an essay written by him and a paper published by a researcher at some American university recently on this topic which I found I thought was quite good and yeah, gun to shoot oneself with is a good way of putting it. I personally think we’re seeing early signs but I often can’t tell if that’s really there or if it’s me projecting my own sentiment on our broader civilization.

[Anonymous No.19508817]

>>19508561
people are having a good go at breaking the bond money has over society without the help of a caesar bro and in spite of those 3. btw how have personal computing and global shipment not changed anything lmao

>>19508517
the suspicion of ornament has its own metaphysical history and commonly means "shit i don't like" rather than being symptomatic of any stage in cultural development. none of this "see! see!" nonsense, in fact i think the criticism of the present age is more meaningless than the age itself

[Anonymous No.19508821]

>>19507235
lol
Lmao

[Anonymous No.19508840]

>>19508759
Alright interesting, I'll go check it out.

[Anonymous No.19508842]

>>19508817
Spengler literally uses aqueducts, theaters, and roads as examples in Decline, comparing them to railroads and engines as examples of Technics.

>>19508797
Correct, almost everything that you suggested is wrong. You've taken a basic understanding of the book, it’s ideas, and terms and run away with incorrect assumptions. The rule of money is the 18th century until the end of the 19th century. Which, as anon pointed out, is the era before Caesarism, and Caesarism is the period where brute military power cuts through money rule. And what does brute military power do to portray its grandeur?

Build big machines. Like aqueducts, and theaters.

[Anonymous No.19508869]

>>19508816
I mean things like VR, cryptocurrency and the metaverse point to it not just being our imagination. I think the interest in Cyberpunk is not accidental either. How things actually shake out is wayyy beyond my powers of speculation let alone reasonable prediction.

>one day we will live to see it burn brother

[Anonymous No.19508900]

read sorokin he dabs on spengler and calls him out

[Anonymous No.19509204]

European Macro-Civilization= Classical, Western, Russian

Asiatic Civilizations: Islamic, Hinduist, Chinese

African Civilizations: ???????

[Anonymous No.19509206]

>>19508842
>The rule of money is the 18th century until the end of the 19th century. Which, as anon pointed out, is the era before Caesarism, and Caesarism is the period where brute military power cuts through money rule. And what does brute military power do to portray its grandeur?
>Build big machines. Like aqueducts, and theaters.
You’re incorrect. I don’t even know what to tell you at this beyond suggesting you read the book and look at the timelines again.

[Anonymous No.19509211]

>>19507059
Star Trek timeline has a nuclear war happening in the next century.

[Anonymous No.19509453]

>>19508793
This is sounding like the dudes who worship the nuke in Planet of the Apes 2

[Anonymous No.19509609]

>>19506348
>>19508900
>Sorokin argues that American and Russian culture have so much in common that these two nations, destined to be the leading postwar power centers, will have a secure basis for friendship. Both nations exemplify unity in diversity.
Could he possibly have been any more off the mark?

[Anonymous No.19509791]

It’s hard to imagine a Caesar figure coming of age today.

[Anonymous No.19509935]

>>19509609
Is this true lmao? If so I'm preemptively dropping Basedrokin

[Anonymous No.19510074]

Western is not a race you stupid motherfuckers. The Western way of life can indeed last to 2200.

[Anonymous No.19510081]

>>19510074
Western means European which means white so it is a race. Only other race who was really involved is Jews.

[Anonymous No.19510122]

>>19505340
With the climate change, the west surely is fucked while Russia would become the new Rome.

[Anonymous No.19510130]

>>19510122
Canada and russia have the same upper climate

[Anonymous No.19510285]

>>19506885
That doesn't make any sense. The principles of Ancient Greek philosophy, mathematics, art, and scientific inquiry stayed with the Western man even when the Greeks are Apollonian instead of Faustian. There might be a shift in zeitgeist but that doesn't mean civilization will abandon everything and build everything by zero. The most possible speculation would be the abandonment of enlightenment ideals and the halt of "Western chase of progress". What would happen when that age comes? We will never know. But to simplify, the Faustian era could be divided into Medieval, Renaissance, Enlightenment, Colonialism, and Modern era we live in today. Each segment could be assigned the type of discipline practiced in each:
>Medieval: Law and Politics, Theology
>Renaissance: Theology, Natural Sciences
>Enlightenment: Natural Sciences, Philosophy
>Colonialism: Philosophy, Engineering
>Modern Era: Engineering, Sociology
This is "progress" in the most Western sense, in hindsight.

[Anonymous No.19510316]

>>19506819
Based on youre image you mean the most basic, Baby-Boomer-tier, leftist, mainstream view imaginable?
>but you don't understand me

[Anonymous No.19510332]

>>19506869
>Whites are the genetic bourgeoisie
True, but we're also the apex warriors, the most economically productive and the most influential on this planet so an overthrow of Whites isn't likely.
>he doesn’t suggest anywhere that non-Western people are incapable of using or maintaining Western technology
They are; note how apathetically incompetent you have to be for a nation to be poor with 2021 tech and information at your figure tips; then look at the third world. Yup. They already fail to follow in our footsteps in any dignified manner, this will simply continue to not happen in the future.
>The distinction lies in the fact that while non-Western civilizations can use Western technology and in some cases even improve it and/or use it better
Some yes, but the nations who can is a pretty short list. Mainly just the East Asian Tiger Nations and, I'll admit begrudgingly (and to a lesser extent); Israel. Outside of the West and those nations there's very little innovation to be had.
>>19506930
Huh......... Who want's to tell him?

[Anonymous No.19510333]

>>19505111
i haven't read it, but i imagine it's just gonna be slowly chipped away after a few resistances on the level of ww2

[Anonymous No.19510816]

>>19506203
He gave a lecture called "On the Soul of Russia", you can find the transcription of it online.

[Anonymous No.19510834]

>>19505111
>Western people are quickly becoming minorities in their own countries
there is a world outside of america anon

[Anonymous No.19511090]

>>19508815
the 2021 one speaks of the rapture and that's false biblical interpretation born last century so its automatically discarded.
Also the bible says that only the Father knows so good luck trying to guess.

[Anonymous No.19511105]

>>19506869
Had never heard that one before, lefties are great and making up stupid explanations for the world.

[Anonymous No.19511153]

>>19506705
>Look around you, wherever in the world you are, everything is a product of the ingenuity of Western man.
That's why he wants it. He's mad at his own inferiority.

[Anonymous No.19511363]

>>19511090
The Bible also says that it will happen within the lifetimes of the original followers. Average Mizrahi Jewish lifetime is 80 years, Jesus died 33AD, so according to Jesus it should have happened sometime before 123AD.

>>19511153
This speaks to Spengler's point about global war, and what anon was talking about with Russia and China not really being able to do it. It's not so much a point about an individual great man of some culture-civilization not being able to get it (implying that the Greeks and Chinese today don't get calculus), but rather that at a mass scale, where stochastic dynamics come into effect, the vast majority just don't want to do what is necessary to do it. You see this with the Russians, for example, who totally get
>send planes from X, have them circle to globe to Y, and drop bombs
but rather they just don't want, and the vast majority of Russians just don't really get, geopolitics as anything but a blob expanding outwards in two-dimensions. Russian geopolitics are always, and have always, been based on the idea of Russia interacting with its immediate neighbors and that's it. They can only ever think in 2D. The world beyond Russia's immediate neighbors is scary, hideous, and unknowable. Russians would much rather blow up a truck depot in Khazakstan than go nuke some country on the opposite end of the globe.

[Anonymous No.19511530]

>>19510285
Read the book and you’ll realize why what you said doesn’t fit. It’s too long and drawn out for me to explain here.

[Anonymous No.19511539]

>>19510333
At least you can admit that you haven’t read it. These threads are always filled with people who haven’t read any of the book, then try to refute this or that with something that is addressed clearly in the book.

[Anonymous No.19511559]

>>19505111
After Roman Empire has failed the administration in some provinces just operated under new management. Here it will look the same - the western mode of living will survive western peoples for a while. Think of places like Argentina - the country is already in as shitheap, but it will sustain itself for at least few more decades until it collapses - and old western countries are far more robust than Argentina.

[Anonymous No.19511587]

>>19511559
What you mean is that after the fall, people hung on in some places, but the great works of Rome itself came to a grinding halt, which is exactly what’s already been said.

[Anonymous No.19511624]

>>19511587
They kept the tax system running among others. It's easy to see how let's say France would keep taxes and welfare in places for a while after the country effectively isn't anymore. Maybe in 100 years from that point it will decline to the level where even the tax system isn't there anymore but they will carry on and have their nobles take on titles like "Minister of Finance" which will grant their holder some land estates and some specific role during some ceremony, but it won't have any connotations with the past functions of such.

[Anonymous No.19512670]

>>19509791
Keep in mind that Julius Caesar was regarded by many Romans as an effeminate faggot just like all the s*yboys of today

[Anonymous No.19512697]

>>19512670
Was he? I remember him sounding as a bit of a punk and popular with the girls but I don’t remember any lack of toughness or immaturity.

[Anonymous No.19512700]

>>19512697

[Anonymous No.19512702]

>>19511624
But these are parts, not the sum. When we talk about Rome, we talk about the great public works of either the republic or the empire, not the individual provinces that managed to stay operating. You know, that’s like Texas managing to keep their highways running, but America is still over and pretending somehow it’s alive because Texas is.

[Anonymous No.19512714]

>>19509791
A Caesar like figure is already here.

[Anonymous No.19512715]

>>19512700
Still, this was a man who grew up in the senate and later, on military campaign. He wasn’t a zoomer who wastes his days after class watching TikTok memes. You know what I mean? One could be dainty or dandy and be nonetheless a man, doing manly things, with the seriousness and concern of a leader but one can’t be if they live at home and waste their time.

[Anonymous No.19513664]

>>19508816
He posted here about how he had lost faith in his own knowledge, "All I know is that I know nothing". Mentioned a mistake about the core of one of his videos. He claimed a part of Spengler's philosophy grew out of Kant, now saying that Spengler didn't associate any ideas and was in fact disproving them in his writings.
Do you have the paper by him. He mentioned he wouldn't be uploading to his channel in a while during his crisis of faith.

[Anonymous No.19513682]

>>19512715
>Faustian Man's caesar will be someone like jared kushner
Yeah, this isn't really a new idea.

>>19512702
That IS what happened, though. In the periphery "Rome" lasted well into the 600sAD in the mind of the Gallo-Romans. Byzantium is an even more extreme example of this.

[Anonymous No.19514424]

>>19509609
In a way he was correct. Neither nation has ever been willing to directly confront the other, despite propaganda and political buster, because the two nations are on opposite sides of the world and are bizarro versions of each other. Russia is old world, America new, but both expanded from their capital into wasteland, both were primarily agrarian and then industrial powerhouses, both have a dominant European majority and many ethnic minorities, including at least one very butthurt one, etc. As a result, the two countries' elites have gotten along strangely well and there has never been a sense between them that war was inevitable. If you consider how many Russian political figures and businessmen have homes in the US, or how many Soviet and Russiaboos work in the state department (there are a lot), it is reasonable to assume that there is quite a lot of good blood between the two nations. Having worked in diplomacy in both countries, I think that all of the tension is mere spectacle and a hot war simply couldn't exist on purely philosophical, let alone geopolitical grounds. Contrast the relationship with both countries vs. China, where China is very foreign and is culturally alien in every way

[Anonymous No.19515553]

>>19512714
Trump?

[Anonymous No.19515732]

What about the second religiousness in faustian civilization? How or in what form do you think it could manifest?