/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19426943]

Animal Farm and 1984 were good books but he seems like such a SJW faggot in his personal life. Ironically he never seemed to understand that his own milquetoast liberal, democratic socialist worldview is what paves the way for the totalitarian dystopia that he dreaded in his books.

[Anonymous No.19426970]

>>19426943
>his own milquetoast liberal, democratic socialist worldview is what paves the way for the totalitarian dystopia
how so?

[Anonymous No.19426977]

>>19426970
something something decomacry something something tyranny

[Anonymous No.19426978]

>>19426943
Tru dat

[Anonymous No.19426984]

are 1984 and animal farm the only books conservatives have read?

[Anonymous No.19426987]

>>19426984
no

[Anonymous No.19426988]

1984 is a totalitarian manifesto

[Anonymous No.19426995]

>>19426988
So is Brave New World. Wasn't Orwell in the Fabian socialist circles

[Anonymous No.19426996]

>>19426984
I once read this book by xenophon something about dogs idk I forgot. Then I was gored to death by a pig

[Anonymous No.19426997]

>>19426984
They're the only books that teenagers have read.
Understand that and everything falls into place.

[Anonymous No.19427000]

>>19426943
Wasn't he a snitch and a giant homophobe? I read somewhere he kept a list of his commie colleagues which he left for the MI5 once he died

[Anonymous No.19427002]

>>19426984
yes

[Anonymous No.19427004]

>>19427000
He hated Stalin but he supported communism and was sympathetic towards Trotsky. He also volunteered to fight for the Republicans against the Nationalists in Spain.

[Anonymous No.19427110]

>>19426943
Pretty much every form of state is wonderful pavement for a totalitarian state, which he kinda pointed out in 1984 with the different countries preaching different ideologies, which boil down to the same result for the average man.
He obviously held to his state ideology looking at a manifestation of it which did not degenerate into a totalitarian form of itself.

[Anonymous No.19427182]

>>19426943
He was a Sjw in some sense I suppose but he was a somewhat consistent one at least; he didnt like Britain, the nazis, or the Soviets because they obviously all contradicted his personal view of socialism which was opposed to giant powerful states and what he termed "nationalism"(really a sort of tribal-ideological religious fervor). He ended up kind of backing liberal democracy over the communists of his time because he clearly thought the latter were more deranged apart from the ancom or Trotsky types but all his books about totalitarianism are supposed to apply to England and the US as well. He would definitely see the current "woke" culture as another example of his "nationalism".

He had a real knack for depicting this totalitarian state of things, especially on the individual psychological level, but it's pretty clear that his own politics were completely ineffectual and unrealistic, if they were even coherent at all.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19427201]

Read a decent collection of his essays.
He was leftist socialist, and /pol/s conception is a distortion. Get your head out of their toilet. Their “red pill” is the blue

[Anonymous No.19427222]

>>19426970
We are seeing it happen in the world now.

[Anonymous No.19427231]

>>19426996
Calm down Adonis

[Anonymous No.19427243]

>>19427201
Would you tongue my asshole while stroking my dick Butterfly?:3

[Anonymous No.19427248]

>>19427243
>>19427201
Please don't be mean :33333

[Anonymous No.19427256]

this thread with its premise and replies is truly the most retarded. I do not get this place, everyone claims they've read lots of books but i see nothing but a vacuum which only contains quantum fluctuations and retardation.

[Anonymous No.19427262]

>>19427256
You dont seem capable of actually formulating a reply to anything that's been said though

[Anonymous No.19427265]

>>19427201
>orwell the original libtard
>socialist
Dumb bitch

[Anonymous No.19427270]

>>19427004
Complete jew bootlicker.

[Anonymous No.19427275]

>>19427265
He was both a libtard and a socialist.

[Anonymous No.19427284]

>>19427270
Yes, very much so. He said that antisemitism was weird nonsensical paranoia and he used the name "Goldstein" as the scapegoat in his book to criticize antisemitic fascist states.

[Anonymous No.19427293]

>>19427284
He did include Zionism within the same umbrella incidentally. I guess a lot of people think that

[Anonymous No.19427297]

>>19427004
Imagine being horrified by Stalin and not with the Jew Trotsky who literally collaborated with the Nazis

[Anonymous No.19427305]

Read The Lion and the Unicorn, /lit/ fags

[Anonymous No.19427315]

Orwell was boring materialist with no grasp of metaphysics

[Anonymous No.19427362]

>>19427297
To then side with commies in Spain who raped and tortured thousands of nuns

[Anonymous No.19427370]

>>19427297
>literally collaborated with the Nazis
Wtf I love Trotsky now

[Anonymous No.19427435]

>>19426943
His essay “Notes on Nationalism” is unironically more relevant in current year then Animal Farm and 1984 combined. And before you poltards reee about muh racism it’s not that kind of Nationalism, he explains in the first part of the essay he only uses that word because it’s the closest word he could find for the phenomenon he explores.

[Anonymous No.19427443]

>>19427435
Explores in the essay*

[Anonymous No.19427448]

>>19427435
That essay is just "tribalism but tribes can also be ideologies". What hes saying makes sense of course but it's not exactly groundbreaking

[Anonymous No.19427458]

>>19427448
I understand that but at least it’s more relevant to people living in modern times than an entire novella on why the USSR is bad which is why I find it odd that it’s not discussed more often.

[Anonymous No.19427477]

>>19427458
Nobody likes a "both sides"er I guess. Doesnt rile the people up.

[Anonymous No.19427510]

>>19427458
it’s more like an entire novella whining about stalin than the ussr itself

[Anonymous No.19428182]

>>19427201
You are a pissbag who stole the original Butterflyms tripcode. Fuck you TRANNY

[Anonymous No.19428236]

[Anonymous No.19428263]

>>19426943
If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which one is a leftist and which is not...

[Anonymous No.19428277]

>>19426997
He walked and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it

[Anonymous No.19429388]

>>19428277
who

[Anonymous No.19429437]

Certain concepts in 1984 are absolutely prophetic. His analysis of language is outstanding, he predicted all the lottle assaults to vocabulary and meaning in order to establish acronyms like "BIPOC" and shit like plus-sized or neuroatypical in the vernacular. That alone makes 1984 outstanding.

[Anonymous No.19429455]

>>19426977
literally 1984

[Anonymous No.19429575]

>>19429437
>being inclusive to people is LITERALLY 1984
I wish retards like you never stop making these comparisons so I can easily dismiss whatever else you have to say

[Anonymous No.19429592]

>>19429575
>inclusive
Literally another one lol

[Anonymous No.19429623]

Orwell fucking blows. apart from being a demcuck he tried to diddle his sister, he is the epitome of degeneracy. can't write for shit the only people who hold him in high regards are pseudo-intellectuals like Jordan Peterson and his 15 year old army.

[Anonymous No.19429655]

>>19429575
You're literally a programed drone.

[Anonymous No.19429686]

>>19427222
>oh my God dude this popular book is akshually happening right now
>I know dude, it was the only book I have read since high school and my entire line of thinking is relative to 1984
Fr fr no cap big thinking on your end bro

[Anonymous No.19429697]

>>19429575
I think you are being ironic but the sickening truth is that redditors genuinely think like this whether you are joking or not.

[Anonymous No.19429709]

>>19426984
They also read Brave New World and Liberal Fascism, anon.

[Anonymous No.19429710]

>>19429686
>my entire line of thinking is relative to 1984
No not really. I am OP and I have made some strong criticisms of Orwell and his worldview throughout this thread. But nonetheless, the overall point of 1984 is basically correct and we are seeing it happen right now.

[Anonymous No.19429989]

>>19426984
I've actually never came across a leftist who started talking about Orwell despite the guy being a socialist, kind of weird that he was co-opted by the right out of all writers out there

[Anonymous No.19430006]

>>19429989
>kind of weird that he was co-opted by the right out of all writers out there
not weird at all, 1984 is not only an easy entry level read, you can also read its summaries in under 10 minutes and never bother to read it considering how little it has to say, and there is also the way it lends itself perfectly to the average retard who believes in conspiracy theories over scientific consensus, you can project any sort of right-wing conspiracies into your reading of 1984, be it anti-vaxx or flat earth or Qanon, you name it.

[Anonymous No.19430023]

>>19430006
It has to do simply with your attitude towards censorship, Orwellian is for normies just a byword for censorship and the press and government lying.

[Anonymous No.19430056]

>>19430006
It's mostly because it lacks any political nuance, compare 1984 to say, the society of spectacle, both might appeal to nutjob wackos with a fetish for conspiracies, but the latter take a lot of effort to understand its implications and is explicitly rooted in Marxist theory, 1984 on the other hand is just a story about censorship, it doesn't pretend to be some deep social commentary, I'd even say that it takes itself so seriously that it backfires and you're only left with a "so bad it's good" dystopian setting.
Not being explicitly tied to Orwell's socialist ideology makes it easier to project on anything compared to Debord's work which has a very precise aspect it seeks to comment on.

[Anonymous No.19430065]

>>19430056
Orwell's brand of socialism was compatible with projecting 1984 on everything though. I mean he did it himself, he shit on every large state of his day.

[Anonymous No.19430087]

>>19430065
He didn't shit on those states just for being large states though, the level of totalitarian control the USSR and Nazi Germany had over their citizens was deranged to say the least, the problem is every modern retard comparing their country to those and 1984 because they are being told to take a fucking vaccine.

[Anonymous No.19430098]

>>19430087
He compared it to England and the US as well, hed undoubtedly compare it to their modern incarnations. Perhaps you need a bit of distance from the issue?

[Anonymous No.19430108]

>>19430065
>>19429989
Wasnt he a self hating socialist though?
Like he really developed a revulsion for a lot of the currents of socialism, even commented on how distanced it often became from actual workers and it itself often being a "white collar" sort of thing. that and reactions to actual structual inactions of more firm line communism during Spain and the soviets.

Also, I dont think its necissarilly right wing. Its just that you seem to see a lot more active efforts of things you could almost call censoring by "leftists" these days.

[Anonymous No.19430126]

>>19430087
>>19430006
>to take a fucking vaccine
I 100% think the anti-vaccine thing in large part is a reactionary thing to dumb fuck liberal media polemicizing and coopting it. Same as flat earth in a sense (though thats not necessarily a liberal coopt there). I really dont think That those hysterias INCREASE the amount of people thinking the "right way" I bet it almost completely entrenches the opposition in a stance and in fact maybe brings more borderline people to that position too since there is such a hubbub about it.

I think the basic psychology of it is completely obvious but people still play into it making it an us and them thing (thus in effect actually edifying that group) rather then it just being a thing you do.

Like tell me, who even knew about flat earthers until people started to gape at them as a social phenomenon?

[Anonymous No.19430131]

>>19430126
It's not really like that.

Germany recently advised agaisnt under 30s taking Modena
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-recommends-only-biontechpfizer-vaccine-people-under-30-2021-11-10/
But in the US its still fine

You can see why people get confused about this..

[Anonymous No.19430135]

>>19426943
>Orwell thread
His politics aside, I appreciate Orwell's advice on writing and how to write clearly and avoid obfuscation.

[Anonymous No.19430141]

[Anonymous No.19430176]

>>19430131
Yes, but I am talking about it as a social phenomenon. Like, with how its presented, I feel like its antithesis is a forgone conclusion the second it drops from jimmy kimmels mouth or whatever.

I could also see it from a sense as a constitutional matter, but regardless, I think the basic conceptualization of the whole dynamic is built to sustain polemicism rather than actually solve anything.

[Anonymous No.19430186]

>>19430176
I know you see it that way but have you ever considered there might be something not quite on the level about all this? I mean just basic distrust of the ruling class, does it not register lately with this stuff?

[Anonymous No.19430187]

>>19430141
kinda problematic dude. you know how many liberal children might die because of this?

[Anonymous No.19430199]

>>19430186
No I agree to some degree, But I think its part of a zeitgest, and I am more talking in reference to the climate of society rather than any actual concrete reality. The vaccine might be delayed reaction anthrax or completely fine and it still doesnt matter in regards to my particular point on "presentation".

[Anonymous No.19430208]

>>19430199
I get you then, yeah, you're entirely right. Good point actually lol

[Anonymous No.19430531]

>>19426995
>Fabian socialist circles
Woah, cool it there goy. You know a little too much, I'm going to have to ask you to delete your posts and apologize for your hatespeech against the Anti-Christ. Now, say it with me
>I, Anon, do solemnly praise the 13 Divine Families and the Monarch that Heads them
>I, Anon, am a firm believer in the New World Order and the Anti-Christ
>I, Anon, do solemnly swear to keep all information related to the 13 Lord-Gods unknown to goyim and speak on this as little as possible.
There you go. But be warned - if you break our code, your underage female family members may end up on a certain bankers island.

[Anonymous No.19430804]

>>19429575
Dilate

[Anonymous No.19430841]

>>19426943
>reading anything political
cringe.
>>19426984
Yeah I am a conservative and if I could read I'd read only read Animal farm and 1984 on an endless loop
Also I am black, hope that doesnt matter :)

[Anonymous No.19430856]

>>19426984
No, they haven't even read them.

[Anonymous No.19431337]

>>19429710
Hmm. Perhaps.

[Anonymous No.19431350]

>>19429575
I wish you'd stop being yikes.

[Anonymous No.19431417]

>>19430087
I am not getting the "vaccine". Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.19431620]

>>19426943
Have you read DOWN AND OUT and WIGAN PIER? His socialism was based on solid experience

[Anonymous No.19431640]

>>19430199
I think you might be a bit of a conspiracy theorisst if you think the media is intentionally trying to turn people into anti-vaxxers when they basically just mostly parrott what the medical experts are saying and ask them their opinion on it. You might also just not understand that us-them is basic to any form of politics from fascism to human rights activism.

[Anonymous No.19431649]

>>19430087
>He didn't shit on those states just for being large states though
The guy was a fucking Anarchist anon, have you even read his other works?

[Anonymous No.19431654]

>>19431640
this. Leftists, like conservatives, have this weird notion that information is created by the media for some reason. idk. Maybe they got hit in the head or something.

[Anonymous No.19431673]

>>19429989
>I've actually never came across a leftist who started talking about Orwell
Because you never get out much. He's immensely popular on the left here.

[Anonymous No.19431674]

>>19426943
Is that a Norman phenotype? He doesn't look Anglo Saxon.

[Anonymous No.19431675]

>>19426943
Fahrenheit 451 was much better anyway.

[Anonymous No.19431849]

>>19431640
>I think you might be a bit of a conspiracy theorisst if you think the media is intentionally trying to turn people into anti-vaxxers when they basically just mostly parrott what the medical experts are saying and ask them their opinion on it.
Have you seen the average fox news take on the vaccine?

[Anonymous No.19431888]

>>19427222
>We are seeing it happen in the world now.
9/10 bait

[Anonymous No.19431899]

>>19431888
But it's true

[Anonymous No.19431903]

>>19431888
Well look at what the EU is doing.
One leads to another, and back and forth it goes.

[Anonymous No.19431909]

>>19431849
blah blah blah fox news
Is that all leftoids can talk about?
Literally no one here gives a shit about fox news except for you people.

[Anonymous No.19431915]

>>19431909
???
It's the primary news source for almost half the fucking country, literally the most watched cable news outlet in the US

[Anonymous No.19431916]

>>19431888
What kind of retard clown is still denying it at this point? They aren't even trying to hide it anymore. They throw it in your face and you still pretend it's not happening.

[Anonymous No.19431919]

>>19431903
>Well look at what the EU is doing.
What is it doing anon?

[Anonymous No.19431936]

The people in charge literally say
>you will get the vaccine
>you will get the booster shots
>you will eat the bugs
>you will live in a pod in the grocery store
>you will own nothing
>your children will belong to the new world order
etc.
and meanwhile fox news obsessed retard anons still say that 1984 isn't happening

[Anonymous No.19431946]

>>19431936
Get vaccinated you filthy animal

[Anonymous No.19431956]

>>19431946
simply shan't

[Anonymous No.19432120]

>>19431919
Importing niggers

[Anonymous No.19432168]

>>19431919
Not him but does anyone here know how the EU parliament works? Aren't policies pushed through even though most vote no in the referendums as they just get changed into executive commands?

[Anonymous No.19432176]

>>19432168
There are no referendums in the eu, only beuracracy.

[Anonymous No.19432194]

>>19431849
Ok, so then it's not the media complex but a single news station, which is a known outlier compared to the rest? And are their reasons simply polemical? I don't fucking get it. What's your point?

[Anonymous No.19432203]

>>19432176
There is a parliament but from what I know it's purely for show. No wonder the building looks like the fucking colloseum

[Anonymous No.19432605]

>>19426984
The ethics of liberty
Man economy and state
Egalitarianism as a revolt against nature
Anthem
Harrison Bergeron
The most dangerous superstition
*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.19434142]

>>19426995
Rich liberals LOVE brave new world. They all think they're Alphas and love the idea of rampant materialism devoid of family obligations. They particularly (unironacally) love the idea of unearned respect and power derived by lineage.

[Anonymous No.19434279]

>>19429437
>acronyms like "BIPOC" and shit like plus-sized or neuroatypical
Terms like woke ipdol cultural CRT Marxist SJW is also a kind of Newspeak.

>>19430056
I think 1984 is very paranoid which appeals more to the InfoWars crowd. Orwell wrote it at the end of his life when he wasn't in good health.

>>19430108
Well, Orwell didn't come from a working-class background. He went to Eton College! There are some accounts from communists in Spain who knew him and didn't like him much.

[Anonymous No.19434297]

>>19434279
Idpol is not newspeak. You need a word for the assortment of race, gender, sexuality etc politics. "Cultural marxist" is pretty newspeaky though.

[Anonymous No.19434310]

>>19430841
We don't want niggers amongst our cause

[Anonymous No.19434333]

>>19429623
>he tried to diddle his sister
yeah, I’m thinking based

[Anonymous No.19434334]

>>19431909
Btfo by
>>19431915
Ditto for
>>19432194
If half the country's main news source is an outlier, then such an outlier in the publishing world is stephen king.