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/lit/ - Literature

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19412693 No.19412693 [Reply] [Original]

ironybro le niggerman memes aside, why isn't lovecraft appreciated as one of the greatest writers of the 20th century, a modern day shaman who was cursed to be born in world that forgot the old ways?

>> No.19412705

Is it that good? Dunno, I'm honestly not curious about horror /lit/ that deals with weird stuff. I get more spooky feelings from regular shit like Flannery O'Connor or that Chuck Palahniuk's Guts type of thing.

>> No.19412722

>>19412693
Lovecraft combined a greater than literary aesthetic and a sub literary style. It's not a surprise that literary people don't have as much time for him as they should. It's like if Kant wrote Bazooka Joe comics.

>> No.19412739

>>19412693
His early work is really bad and dry, and arguably who only wrote a handful of good stories.

>> No.19412751

Just read 'the street' in Eldritch Tales, and it's really hopeful?

Like even in a society drowned out in biological warfare, the very soul of a place strikes back

>> No.19412875

>>19412739
You should learn how to read

>> No.19412934

It’s because him and his fellow weird fiction writers use the decadent/ornate prose style which is completely out of favor. Now, lovecraft does have a ton of cultural influence and he’s one of the handful of writers who kids will pick up out of their own will and read, and this will make him (along with Robert e Howard) become studied in future generations and force him to be respected, but in general the more literary inclined will either desire a fully intellectual piece with no pulpy Elements (which are in there by design to give the piece an enjoyable aspect.) and they will either want simplistic prose (which lovecraft was against) or a maximalist prose which goes far beyond the well mannered and nice sounding work of lovecraft. But I think the power of his imagination (which yes wasn’t all his, most of his work is recombining his contemporaries and influences, hodgson for the sea-terror, Blackwood for the cosmic horror and so on, but he admits to this, read his essay on supernatural horror.) and the enjoyable aspects of his dreamy prose (based on poe and dunsany) will cement his place in literary history, as it is already cemented. The only major problem is that when someone really studies him they find his major influences are all superior to him in every angle he does, so this is why joshi whose the biggest lover and scholar on lovecraft probably in the world, would probably tell you himself dunsany and smith are his equal if not superior.

So to summarize, the problem is the prose style is an extremely uncommon in the contemporary day middle ground which is redeemed by its pulpy and highly imaginative aspects.

>> No.19412946

>>19412693
Is he? He has a Library of America volume and people can't stop talking about him. Both pulpy authors and literary critics admit him as a presence and he's objectively influential on his genre. I feel like the fact that so many people steal from him and then feel the need to justify said stealing as being despite/because of his personal life/beliefs means his work is greatly appreciated.

>> No.19412947

>>19412722
Lol

>> No.19412971

>>19412934
>decadent/ornate prose style which is completely out of favor
I'm a horror fan and an admirer of Lovecraft, but it's this. His works are fantastic to dwell upon afterwards but getting into them feels like homework. Once you're in the thick of it, it flies by, but most people don't have that kind of patience and he really demands it of you.

>> No.19412973

>>19412971
>getting into them feels like homework
>an adult talking about reading

>> No.19412986

>>19412971
Personally I’m a lover of it, it’s not the puzzle book style of Joyce or the conceptual-puzzle style of Nabokov and it’s not the simplistic Hemingway/attic mode, but it’s the content and form being unified basically prose poem form. I think how mannered and dreamy his style is, is the best part. Here’s a very short story of lovecraft’s which I can’t see working without his decadent prose style.

When the last days were upon me, and the ugly trifles of existence began to drive me to madness like the small drops of water that torturers let fall ceaselessly upon one spot of their victim’s body, I loved the irradiate refuge of sleep. In my dreams I found a little of the beauty I had vainly sought in life, and wandered through old gardens and enchanted woods.
Once when the wind was soft and scented I heard the south calling, and sailed endlessly and languorously under strange stars. Once when the gentle rain fell I glided in a barge down a sunless stream under the earth till I reached another world of purple twilight, iridescent arbours, and undying roses. And once I walked through a golden valley that led to shadowy groves and ruins, and ended in a mighty wall green with antique vines, and pierced by a little gate of bronze. Many times I walked through that valley, and longer and longer would I pause in the spectral half-light where the giant trees squirmed and twisted grotesquely, and the grey ground stretched damply from trunk to trunk, sometimes disclosing the mould-stained stones of buried temples. And always the goal of my fancies was the mighty vine-grown wall with the little gate of bronze therein. After a while, as the days of waking became less and less bearable from their greyness and sameness, I would often drift in opiate peace through the valley and the shadowy groves, and wonder how I might seize them for my eternal dwelling-place, so that I need no more crawl back to a dull world stript of interest and new colours. And as I looked upon the little gate in the mighty wall, I felt that beyond it lay a dream-country from which, once it was entered, there would be no return. So each night in sleep I strove to find the hidden latch of the gate in the ivied antique wall, though it was exceedingly well hidden. And I would tell myself that the realm beyond the wall was not more lasting merely, but more lovely and radiant as well. Then one night in the dream-city of Zakarion I found a yellowed papyrus filled with the thoughts of dream-sages who dwelt of old in that city, and who were too wise ever to be born in the waking world.

Cont

>> No.19412991

>>19412693
because hes not that good

>> No.19412997

>>19412986
Therein were written many things concerning the world of dream, and among them was lore of a golden valley and a sacred grove with temples, and a high wall pierced by a little bronze gate. When I saw this lore, I knew that it touched on the scenes I had haunted, and I therefore read long in the yellowed papyrus. Some of the dream-sages wrote gorgeously of the wonders beyond the irrepassable gate, but others told of horror and disappointment. I knew not which to believe, yet longed more and more to cross forever into the unknown land; for doubt and secrecy are the lure of lures, and no new horror can be more terrible than the daily torture of the commonplace. So when I learned of the drug which would unlock the gate and drive me through, I resolved to take it when next I awaked. Last night I swallowed the drug and floated dreamily into the golden valley and the shadowy groves; and when I came this time to the antique wall, I saw that the small gate of bronze was ajar. From beyond came a glow that weirdly lit the giant twisted trees and the tops of the buried temples, and I drifted on songfully, expectant of the glories of the land from whence I should never return. But as the gate swung wider and the sorcery of drug and dream pushed me through, I knew that all sights and glories were at an end; for in that new realm was neither land nor sea, but only the white void of unpeopled and illimitable space. So, happier than I had ever dared hoped to be, I dissolved again into that native infinity of crystal oblivion from which the daemon Life had called me for one brief and desolate hour.

>> No.19413018

>>19412693
>Why isn't lovecraft appreciated
What makes you think that he isn't? Just because some idiots on the internet keep saying that he should be cancelled because he was xenophobic doesn't mean that he isn't respected by the vast majority of readers.

>> No.19413795

>>19412971
I felt exactly the same about Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness.

>> No.19413813

>>19412693
Because he wrote pulpy angsty horror tales. Mind you, I do live it, but that kind of stuff does never ever make the cut for great literature

>> No.19413966

his writing style is really fucking boring

>> No.19414048

>>19412693
Because Clark Ashton Smith was better.

>> No.19414093

>>19412693
>why isn't lovecraft appreciated as one of the greatest writers of the 20th century
Because he isn't.

HPL is appreciated correctly, I would say. Like many people with a very distinct and peculiar sensibility, he bends all his efforts obsessively in one direction, which gives him focus and intensity. He was reasonably intelligent. To some extent his obsessions (with race, for example) were not a consquence of madness but of being saner than people around him. As Ezra Pound said:

Artists and poets undoubtedly get excited and 'over-excited ' about things long before the general public. Before deciding whether a man is a fool or a good artist, it would he well to ask, not only: 'is he excited unduly?', but: 'does he see something we don't?'
Is his curious behaviour due to his feeling an oncoming earthquake, or smelling a forest fire which we do not yet feel or smell?
— The ABC of Reading

But that's not enough to be a great writer. He was terribly limited (the price of obsessiveness). He had little sense of character; little interest in crafting a decent plot (don't waste my time saying plot doesn't matter); little interest in the details of real interaction between real people in the real world.

He's worth reading, and he'll probably survive, which already puts him ahead of 99.9% of authors. But once you're past the age of 14 he's never going to be more than a funny little guy in the corner, doing his thing.

>> No.19414267

>>19412693
His ideas are interesting, his style is repetitive to the point that I sometimes think I've already read something of his just because he uses the same cyclopean words over and over.

>> No.19415869

>>19412693
>>19412705
>>19412722
>>19412739
>>19412751
>>19412934
>>19412971
>>19412986
>>19412997
>>19414048
>>19413813
>>19413018
>>19414093
>>19414267
>>19414267
Both lovecraft and robert e howard (and ashton smith) were shamanic aryan visionaries.

>> No.19415901

>>19415869
I am a big fan of lovecraft, Howard and smith, I think smith has the best prose styles of them, I would also say and I’ve said this many times, dunsany is their superior in all ways imo.