Lazarus

[Anonymous No.19393428]

John 11:1-44
So if this Lazarus niggha be dead and in heaven, why did Jesus bring him back. Ain’t that kind of a disservice to my niggha Lazarus for he was Baskin in glory n stuff. And if Lazarus be in hell we know no one can be gettin my niggha back from hell because of Luke 16:19-31, none can bring him back.
This Lazarus story seemin kinda sus fr fr.

[Anonymous No.19393537]

The Bible is full of contradictions like this. Don’t worry about it bro.

[Anonymous No.19393555]

>>19393428
what is a religious allegory

[Anonymous No.19393557]

>>19393555
So Jesus didn’t actually bring Lazarus back from the dead?

[Anonymous No.19393576]

>>19393557
do I really have to explain the most basic theological concepts to you?
scripture is true on multiple levels there is a superficial literal level and deeper layers of meaning, depending on your denomination and theological orientation these layers have different relations and hierachies

[Anonymous No.19393587]

>>19393576
Don’t get uppity with me faggit. All I did was ask a question. It’s yes or no.

[Anonymous No.19393592]

>>19393587
ok, faggit, the short answer is no

[Anonymous No.19393598]

>>19393587
God works in misterious ways

[Anonymous No.19393604]

>>19393592
And the mask removed, true colours being revealed. Marvelous.

[Anonymous No.19393609]

>>19393557
He did.

[Anonymous No.19393610]

>>19393598
Ahh indeed my friend, indeed.

[Anonymous No.19393620]

>>19393428
>Ain’t that kind of a disservice to my niggha Lazarus for he was Baskin in glory n stuff.
There was no glory prior to Christ's death and resurrection.

[Anonymous No.19393623]

>>19393609
I wasn’t asking you, but thanks for the response. You should focus on explaining the dilemma rather.

[Anonymous No.19393624]

>>19393623
Doesn’t matter if you don’t ask him, this is an anonymous image board hence anybody can answer any question they like.

As for the dilemma, see >>19393620

[Anonymous No.19393627]

>>19393620
What about my boys Enoch and Elijah?

[Anonymous No.19393632]

>>19393624
I kindly thanked him for his response.
See >>19393627

[Anonymous No.19393643]

>>19393627
limbus patrum

[Anonymous No.19393656]

>>19393643
>limbus patrum
This is an English speaking board. Additionally catholic mumbo jumbo need not apply. Limbo, purgatory, etc are not substantiated by scripture.
Besides it clearly says Enoch and Elijah were taken up into heaven.

[Anonymous No.19393673]

>>19393656
Heaven is simply a word for all things outside of the world and hell.

There’s a reason why Elijah appeared during the transfiguration.

[Anonymous No.19393698]

>>19393673
>Elijah appeared
That is clearly described as a vision and not being real.
>“Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.””
Matthew 17:9

[Anonymous No.19393703]

>>19393698
>>19393673
>3705 Horama
Meaning vision or sight is used to describe many non real scenes throughout the NT

[Anonymous No.19393740]

>>19393627
They went to a special place and are awaiting becoming the two witnesses of Revelation.

[Anonymous No.19393746]

>>19393740
Amazing exegesis.

[Anonymous No.19393753]

>>19393428
He was in Purgatory, of course.

[Anonymous No.19393757]

If Jesus did not do the actual miracles and if he did not actually come back from the dead and the whole thing is some.feel-good allegory then the whole thing is a sham and as Paul said then it is us who are to be pitied the.most. It is a shame that God is so anonymous and quiet throughout the entire modernity. We could certainly use some help.

[Anonymous No.19393769]

>>19393746
It's appointed unto men once to die, and those two have not done so yet. The two witnesses are killed which will fulfill them.

[Anonymous No.19393777]

>>19393753
I believe now. Thank you.
>>19393757
Ahh yes 1 Corinthians 15. We are most miserable.
I know the answer to this most frustrating question. I only seek those who know it first. In fact it’s been known for a few hundred years, but people are content on their ways, complacent. Born into it, die for it, no need to refute, go with the status quo. The great apostasy happened quite fast.

[Anonymous No.19393787]

>>19393769
Yes of course. How could I forget, yet how does Elijah write letters to kings and give words to men long after he is taken away?

[Anonymous No.19393794]

>>19393609
>Haha, dust is stealing dust
What mad lad

[Anonymous No.19393804]

>>19393787
Through God all things are possible you ding dong.

[Anonymous No.19393809]

>>19393804
God works in “misterious” ways. The perfect answer to all questions.

[Anonymous No.19393830]

Lazarus wasn't in Heaven, he was laying dead in wormy Earth waiting for the day of the resurrection.

[Anonymous No.19393844]

>>19393830
Were does the soul go then?

[Anonymous No.19393855]

>>19393428
Didn't Jesus say Lazarus was "sleeping"?
>>19393830 sounds like the correct interpretation

[Anonymous No.19393899]

>>19393855
Lazarus was dead 4 days, so much so that his body began to stink. Yeah bro he was just sleeping it off. I’m still waiting for the anons response that you linked to.

[Anonymous No.19393922]

>>19393809
This, but unironically.

[Anonymous No.19393932]

>>19393899
I put sleeping in quotations for a reason. He meant it figuratively.

[Anonymous No.19393939]

>>19393932
Lazarus was dead, yes

[Anonymous No.19393942]

>>19393428
>be lazarus
>died a painful death already
>as a joke jesus decides you bring you back to life so you can die a painful death a second time later
why did he do it?

[Anonymous No.19393999]

>>19393942
>projecting
Lazarus wasn't a pussy, faggot.

[Anonymous No.19394025]

>>19393428
Just in case nobody has said this yet, Lazarus was neither in heaven nor hell. He was in Abraham's Bosom, a separate place mentioned several times throughout scripture, where the righteous went prior to Christ's Resurrection. 'The Harrowing of Hell' was not, in fact, Christ breaking into Gehenna, or 'actual hell', as you probably think of it, but rather retrieving those souls from Abraham's Bosom.

[Anonymous No.19394057]

>>19394025
So purgatory. Limbo. Etc.

[Anonymous No.19394072]

>>19394057
Effectively.

[Anonymous No.19394083]

>>19394072
Mmm. Yes, this also mentioned in the Old Testament no?

[Anonymous No.19394109]

>>19394083
Yes, Abraham's Bosom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham

https://www.catholic.com/qa/did-all-the-people-who-died-prior-to-jesus-go-to-hell

[Anonymous No.19394146]

>>19394025
This is your brain on Catholicism

Let me guess, you also believe in a Hell of unending punishment?

[Anonymous No.19394159]

>>19394146
>Let me guess, you also believe in a Hell of unending punishment?

I am a Christian, yes

[Anonymous No.19394175]

>>19394159
Wow, that's incredibly cruel of your God to deliberately make some people in the full knowledge that they will suffer perpetually.

You sure you love your neighbor as yourself bro?

[Anonymous No.19394211]

>>19394175
Augustine and Aquinas figured this out hundreds of years ago in a far more eloquent manner than I can possibly hope to in a 4chan post. God doesn't create anyone with the full knowledge they will suffer, because God exists outside of time. He does not 'look forward' to the future, or 'look back' to the past. For God everything effectively happens instantaneously, forever.

A single sin committed against a being of infinite goodness deserves infinite punishment, and since no being is capable of experiencing punishment infinite in point of intensity it naturally follows that such a punishment is infinitely experienced.

Look here, and at a few of the articles before and after:

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/5097.htm

But it goes without saying that a belief in an infinite hell is common to every Christian denomination, Catholic or otherwise, save the most fringe sects who really make their own rules up. In Matt 25:46, Christ Himself affirms the eternal nature of Hell's punishment, which elsewhere He describes as a place of fire ((Matt 25:41) and incredible torment (Mark 9:43).

Jesus talks more about Hell than almost any other topic in the Bible, confirms it to be a place of suffering, affirms that the suffering is eternal, and unequivocally states that people WILL go there (hence the error of universalism).

[Anonymous No.19394215]

>>19394109
It’s not mentioned in the OT. Amazing.

[Anonymous No.19394231]

>>19393428
He wasn't in heaven nor in hell. The souls of mankind will only ascent to heaven or descent to hell when the day of the judgement comes.

[Anonymous No.19394238]

>>19394215
Not him, but the very link he provided shows that in OT texts the same word is translated as 'Sheol', and formulated as 'Abraham's Bosom' in the NT. The concept of a 'holding place' for souls separate to Heaven and Hell is common to both the OT and NT.

[Anonymous No.19394413]

>>19394211
Good poster

[Anonymous No.19394423]

>>19393777
You're welcome, brother. Heaven rejoices.

[Anonymous No.19394641]

>>19394238
The OT Word and NT Word are two very different words. This is catholic mental gymnastics.

[Anonymous No.19394660]

>>19394641
False, and the concept isn't a purely Catholic one. Trying to somehow explain that Sheol and Abraham's Bosom are two different things requires far greater mental gymnastics. The Wikipedia page for Abraham's Bosom explains in the very first statement that it refers to Sheol. There is a very long history in both Christianity and, prior to Christianity, in Judaism, all of which is very simpyy explained on the Wikipedia page. Also, Christ Himself refers to Abraham's Bosom, as a place other than Heaven or Hell which nonetheless is the abode of certain souls. So you cannot claim to be a Christian whilst denying the existence of such a place, and it's existence is not a solely Catholic belief, unlike Purgatory.

[Anonymous No.19394785]

>>19393592
>the short answer is no
Is this what the most sophisticated Christians believe? I thought you were supposed to have faith in the myth as historical and as a symbolic revelation?

[Anonymous No.19394791]

>>19394660
>muh Wikipedia
Great source buddy, absolutely debunked!
>Christ refers to it
In parable
>it’s in the OT
Again it’s not, Maccabees is not cannon and in any other writings all the wiki says is it’s on some papyri.
>y-your not Christian
Not an argument

[Anonymous No.19394798]

>>19393620
Does that mean everybody who ever died before the resurrection went to hell? Were they saved afterwards?

[Anonymous No.19394814]

>>19394798
No this all stems from the pagan teaching of the soul. When you die you die, you don’t have this mythological misty being inside you. It clears up all this nonsense that OP has brought up. You’re dead till the redirection, hence Paul’s teaching of death swallowed up by life. If your soul is already in heaven or hell what’s the point of adding back a body?

[Anonymous No.19394834]

>>19394211
>God doesn't create anyone with the full knowledge they will suffer, because God exists outside of time. He does not 'look forward' to the future, or 'look back' to the past. For God everything effectively happens instantaneously, forever.
Correct me if I'm wrong but how is God capable of having will if this is the case? Is it just that God simply is what he wants to be by default? Then if that's the case, the answer as to why God would want to create people for whom hell is a certainty doesn't seem to be answered.

[Anonymous No.19394835]

>>19394814
You soul is your physical being. Made of dust of the earth. You die and wait till the day of judgement when all men are tried at the SAME TIME. No ones waiting in limbo, purgatory, some bosom some where. What is the point of that special day of judgment so talked about in the New Testament if every day is the day of judgement all throughout the world.

[Anonymous No.19394855]

>>19394834
The catholic philosophical nonsense has to go to such great lengths of philosophizing that they’ll say anything to justify their cult.

[Anonymous No.19395031]

>>19394834
God creates us outside of time and puts us into a temporal universe, using the body as a means of operating within that universe and exercising our will. Will is a function of time - where time doesn't exist, an act of the will is irrevocable (see: the angels, and why they cannot change their act of rebellion).

Imagine you film someone walking up to someone else and punching them. Then you plug the footage into your computer, and all the frames are visible, there, on screen, simultaneously. Well, at the same time you can see the frames where the individual hasn't punched the other guy yet, you can see him punching the other guy, and you can see him after having punched the other guy, all in the same moment. The fact that you can see the past, present, and future of that action doesn't change the fact that it was committed in full consent of the will. Likewise, God creates us with free will, and His observance (I prefer the term observance to that of knowledge, since, as I mentioned, God exists outside of time) of how we exercise that will in no way undermines it.

>>19394855
The Catholic Church was the only Church on Earth for the vast majority of Christian history. The Orthodox were there, too, for a long time, but shared (and share) the vast majority of Catholic teachings and retain valid sacraments. 'Catholic philosophy' is by and large Christian theology, whatever the denomination. You are sorely misinformed on matters not only of Church history but also Scripture and the most basic theological concepts, and I urge you to conduct further research before continuing to embarrass yourself.

Here's one to keep you busy, since the most rabid anti-Catholics tend also to be Sola Scriptura (though how you work that around Christ's explicit mention of Abraham's Bosom, in a parable where he explicitly also mentions hell as a place of suffering, is beyond me): are Catholics going to hell?

Is John 3:16 is correct, and Catholics truly believe in Christ, then we are saved regardless.

If Catholics are not saved, however, because something else is required, then that would mean John 3:16 is incorrect, and we are not saved by faith alone, but also by works (which is itself a Catholic position).

So are Catholics who believe in Christ saved? If so, what matter? If not, then the Bible is incorrect, and you have to look for another source of Christian authority. (thankfully, we have one - sacred tradition).

[Anonymous No.19395050]

>>19395031
/lit/ what mental illness is this?

[Anonymous No.19395057]

>>19395050
Not an argument. 'To learn history is to cease to be Protestant'.

[Anonymous No.19395106]

>>19395031
>appeal to authority
>appeal to the masses
>straw manning
>ad hominem
>changing the subject
Amazing bro you got me.
>>19395050
It’s called being apart of a cult. He doesn’t even try to refute back. It’s “bro just look it up yourself bro, it’s settled science bro!” Very shameful display. I have aimed to refute very simply, and he has blown a gasket trying to work out the answer in his mess of “theological work” thats also continually to change by papal decree.

[Anonymous No.19395112]

>>19395057
You can’t even respond to the right poster. Sad.

[Anonymous No.19395128]

>>19395050
>>19395106
Not him, but I'll pray for you both to come to the light of the one true Church.

[Anonymous No.19395141]

>>19395128
You mean the church that’s fallen to apostasy from day one? There is only one church and that is those that are Baptized in the name of Jesus, that he died and was resurrected. The church is the body of Christ, not some Roman Cathedral.

[Anonymous No.19395149]

>>19395141
Strawman. I never claimed it was a Roman cathedral. If the only Christian church that existed for about 1500 years had fallen to apostasy since day one, wouldn't that mean the gates of hell had prevailed against it? So Jesus was wrong?

[Anonymous No.19395151]

>>19395057
>history of men have understood is the same as how God sees it
Atheist opinions discarded.

[Anonymous No.19395174]

>>19395151
To learn history is to cease to be Protestant because you understand how utterly baseless and ridiculous the Protestant position is. It's the ultimate sin of pride to be a Protestant, picking and choosing which books you think are canon, picking and choosing which Bible versus apply to you and explaining away the ones you don't like. There are literally hundreds of Protestant sects teaching different things. ONE Catholic Church. ONE teaching, unchanged for thousands of years. Who started your church? Jesus Christ Himself started ours.

[Anonymous No.19395176]

>>19395149
Well you need to clarify. No the gates of hell have not won, Christ will always have a remnant, even if it is just one man. You’re assuming that there needs to be some large multitude. The gates of hell will never avail because Christ is King.

[Anonymous No.19395185]

>>19395174
>unchanged
Maximum coping. Lmao.

[Anonymous No.19395198]

>>19395176
Riiiiiight. So while Catholicism and Orthodoxy were the only two Christian groups for 1500 years, they were wrong, yet the gates of hell hadn't succeeded? Jesus meant to build His Church on Peter, but there was an unwritten caveat that we'd actually get it completely wrong until some dude Martin Luther came along (who, I might add, had a strong personal devotion to Mary and was viciously anti-semitic), to sort the whole mess out?

Every single Catholic teaching is justified by Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Protestantism is just a mess, and the whole lot of you are heretics. Please go ahead and tell yourself the Holy Spirit is moving within you next time rock music designed to elicit an emotional response gives you feelings.

[Anonymous No.19395207]

>>19395185
Doctrine has not been changed in a single instance over the past 2021 years. Which is itself a miracle, given the number of heretical Popes we've had, and the lows the Church reached in the Middle Ages. Unchanged. How about your Church?

[Anonymous No.19395210]

>>19395174
>casting judgment
>association fallacy
>who started your church
Which church is yours again?

[Anonymous No.19395218]

>>19395207
>>19395198
Lmao. Maximum seething.
>WHICH CHURCH BRO, HUH HUH, WHICH CHURCH
you sound like children. You don’t make your case and are assuming so many things. Catholics just can’t stand to be losers so they decide to be liars instead. Whore of Babylon.

[Anonymous No.19395224]

>>19395210
To judge whether something is correct or incorrect is an intrinsically vital part of human experience and one that is encouraged in Scripture — 'in righteousness shall you judge your neighbour'. You are judging Catholicism to be incorrect, for example, and using far more hostile language to do so.

Jesus Christ started the Catholic Church, and no other. And this isn't an association fallacy, because you aren't associated with Protestantism, you are Protestantism, which is many-pronged and backwards in every instance. Read the Bible, learn Christian history. Educate yourself.

[Anonymous No.19395245]

>>19395224
Thanks dude, you’ve completely derailed my thread with your catholic shit flinging. And at last you tell me, to just read. No shit Sherlock.

[Anonymous No.19395275]

>>19395245
I was the first person in your thread to give you the answer to your question:
>>19394025

I will cast no more pearls before heretics who are so rabidly anti-Catholic because they shrink from the idea that the Faith may require something difficult of them. It is Satan speaking through them. I cast my lot with Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died for our sins and rose again, and whom I will love and worship until my dying day. Vade Retro Satanas.

[Anonymous No.19395288]

>>19395275
boo hoo nigga ion care

[Anonymous No.19395323]

>>19395275
Your answer wasn’t correct, I clearly showed what you were proposing wasn’t sola scriptura, you then proceeded to cry and bemoan heretic. 1 Peter 3:15 be always ready with an answer.
You couldn’t come up with a lie quick enough to refute. So you gave up, you whore of Babylon.

[Anonymous No.19395380]

>>19395031
I'm the person you replied to here>>19394834
Your analogy had me until I noticed that its limited by the fact that the video has to be recorded before it becomes a file on the computer, therefore the act of will has to occur in time before you are able to observe the time before, during and after it.

[Anonymous No.19395387]

>>19394211
>A single sin committed against a being of infinite goodness deserves infinite punishment, and since no being is capable of experiencing punishment infinite in point of intensity it naturally follows that such a punishment is infinitely experienced.

kek, you can't seriously believe this

[Anonymous No.19395406]

>>19395224
>>19395174
I'm new to Christianity. Isn't Orthodox Christianity the original interpretation? And didn't Christ say you should only worship in private, something Catholics don't seem to believe especially as they view the pope as infallible?

[Anonymous No.19395412]

>>19395275
Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.19395429]

>>19394791
>Maccabees is not cannon

Yes, it is.

[Anonymous No.19395474]

>>19395412
>>19395429
No thoughts on the Reverend Father James Jackson, FSSP, author of books on the traditional Latin mass?

[Anonymous No.19395490]

>>19395474
Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft, the author of a report on sexual offenses in schools, said sexual violence is much more prevalent in schools than in the Church.[276] According to the report, up to 422,000 students from California will be victims of sexual violence in the future.[276]

Some critics have stated that the oversaturation of Church sex abuse stories has led to the perception that the Catholic Church is more rife with pedophilia than in reality. A The Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests "frequently" abused children; however, there is no data that indicates that priests commit abuse more often than the general population of males.[444]

Anglican writer Philip Jenkins supported many of these arguments stating that media coverage of the abuse story had become "..a gross efflorescence of anti-catholic rhetoric."[445]

Commentator Tom Hoopes wrote that during the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran four stories about the federal government's discovery of the much larger – and ongoing – abuse scandal in public schools.[446]

[Anonymous No.19396010]

>>19394791
>Maccabees is not cannon
Hi, Shlomo.

[Anonymous No.19396427]

>>19395429
Do you have a link to the full set of these infographics? Asking for a friend.

[Anonymous No.19396441]

>>19395490

Public schools don't claim to have the exclusive franchise on divine revelation from the omnipotent creator of the Universe. Public school teachers don't spend their time preaching on how we're all going to hell from porn and fornication either.

[Anonymous No.19396462]

>>19396441
>Public schools don't claim to have the exclusive franchise on divine revelation from the omnipotent creator of the Universe.
Don't tell them that.