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/lit/ - Literature

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1936820 No.1936820 [Reply] [Original]

So I was reading recently about the origins of language and there is an interesting theory that certain sounds have innate visual associations, much in the same way someone with synesthesia may specific associate sounds with specific colours. For example, 'humpty dumpty' makes us think of something round and full.

Cross-sensory connections in our brain allow for these associations to be made and may have given our human ancestors a 'stepping-stone' for the creation of language. Being able to communicate the need to run fast, or if a rock is jagged or rounded, can be extremely useful.

Here are 8 Japanese words, each with two possible antonymous meanings. The answers will be in a spoiler at the bottom. Post your results out of 8 at the bottom, and please don't cheat, even a negative result is interesting.


1. Akarui - (a) Bright (b)Dark
2. Nureta - (a) Dry (b) Wet
3. Omoi - (a) Light (b) Heavy
4. ii - (a) Bad (b) Good
5. Neru - (a) Lie (b) Rise
6. Suzushii - (a) Warm (b) Cold
7. Osoi - (a) Slow (b) Fast
8. Hashiru - (a) Walk (b) Run

ANSWERS:
1a, 2b, 3b, 4b, 5a, 6b, 7a, 8b.

>> No.1936823

a
b
b
a
a
a
b

>> No.1936829

a
b
b
a
a
b
a
b

okay, how did i do? reading spoiler now
a

>> No.1936834

>>1936829

Seven out of 8? Maybe there is something to your theory, Tru.

>> No.1936835

>1. Akarui
(a) Bright
>2. Nureta
(b) Wet
>3. Omoi
(a) Light
>4. ii
(a) Bad
>5. Neru
(a) Lie
>6. Suzushii
(b) Cold
>7. Osoi
(a) Slow
>8. Hashiru
(b) Run

>> No.1936839

>>1936820

Is the experiment affected by the fact that some concepts DO need to be communicated quickly and some do not? i.e., "walk" vs "run", "lie" vs. "rise", "bad" vs. "good".

In all of those cases, one is a concept that might need to be communicated urgently and one is not.

>> No.1936842

>>1936835
6/8.

>> No.1936843

>>1936823

6/8.

>>1936834

hope so, bro. I think of course some people are more sensitive to this word/visual synesthesia than others, but most people seem to have at least a slight positive correlation.

>> No.1936861

b
b
a
a
a
b
a
b

>> No.1936862

>>1936839

Yes that's one thing I hope to discover, if people are more likely to get it right when the sound implies urgency.

>> No.1936864

>>1936820
でも私は日本語を反せま。どうしおう？

>> No.1936875 [DELETED] 

>>1936864

sorry, maybe you can get someone who speaks a language you don't and try it that way?

Try Czech:

1. Pomaly - (a) Fast (b) Slow
2. Mokry - (a) Dry (b) Wet
3. Jasny - (a) Bright (b) Dark

1b, 2a, 3a

>> No.1936882

>>1936875
I know for a fact as a speaker of a slavic language that mokry is wet.

>> No.1936886

>>1936882

yeah but the point is that you don't have any insight into the linguistic meaning of a word, only you create are given clues to the meaning through the sound it makes.

>> No.1936887

>>1936875

a
b
a

>> No.1936892

>>1936886
My point was you got it wrong in the answers.

>> No.1936893

>>1936887

2/3, sorry i wrote it down wrong. 2 is b, >>1936882 is correct.

>> No.1936895

a
b
b
b
a
b
b
a

>> No.1936904

a
a
b
a
a
b
a
b

>> No.1936908

>>1936875
b
a
a

>> No.1936917

try czech:


1. Pomaly - (a) Fast (b) Slow
2. Mokry - (a) Dry (b) Wet
3. Jasny - (a) Bright (b) Dark
4. Chuze - (a) Walk (b) Run
5. Kolo - (a) Round (b) Sharp

1b, 2b, 3a, 4a, 5a

>> No.1936949

Romanian:

1. Rapid - (a) Fast (b) Slow
2. Umed - (a) Dry (b) Wet
3. Luminos - (a) Bright (b) Dark
4. Fugi - (a) Walk (b) Run
5. Rotund - (a) Round (b) Sharp

1a, 2b, 3a, 4b, 5a

>> No.1936954

light occurs at a specific frequency
so do sounds

all waves are the same thing. particles colliding.
It's said that the music note "C" tends to make people happy (see: casino machines), so there is probably a visual equivalent.

your mind = blown

>> No.1936961

I got 6/8. Probably a case of onomatopoeia, no need for innate aural connections and all that mumbo jumbo.

>> No.1936962

>>1936961
The japanese are exceedingly fond of onomatopoeia.

>> No.1936967

>>1936961

onomatopoeia is when a word attributed to a noun sounds like the noise that noun makes.

Another experiment you can make is show someone a spiky object and ask them whether it should be called 'bouba' or 'kiki'.

95% say kiki.

>> No.1936969

1. Akarui - (a) Bright
2. Nureta - (a) Dry
3. Omoi - (b) Heavy
4. ii - (a) Bad
5. Neru - (b) Rise
6. Suzushii - (b) Cold
7. Osoi - (a) Slow
8. Hashiru - (b) Run

>> No.1936970

b
a
a
a
b
b
b
a

>> No.1936976

>>1936967
>onomatopoeia is when a word attributed to a noun sounds like the noise that noun makes.

Thanks a lot tripfaggot, I didn't know that. That's why I was using the word.

Fucking retard.

>> No.1936991

1. Akarui - (a) Bright
2. Nureta - (b) Wet
3. Omoi - (b) Heavy
4. ii - (b) Good
5. Neru - (a) Lie
6. Suzushii - (b) Cold
7. Osoi - (a) Slow
8. Hashiru - (a) Walk

>> No.1936993
File: 50 KB, 750x600, SYNESTHESIA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1936993

Maybe for once someone besides me will chuckle at this image

>> No.1936994

>>1936976

this is different, the sound of the word is attributed to the objects physical and visual properties, not the sound it makes. I didn't think i'd have to elaborate the difference so clearly.

>> No.1936996

>>1936991

7/8.

Very positive result.

>> No.1937001

Op should use real Japanese words like Katana, Waifu and JRPG instead of those made up NON-WORDS

>> No.1937007

>>1937001

don't forget desu and kotaku~

>> No.1937010

b
b
b
b
a
a
a
b

6/8

>> No.1937012

>>1936993
I chuckled, nice pic Learned about Kiki and Bouba a few years ago. Great visual/textual fun, especially when you take into account the shapes of the letters used to make the word associated with the shape.

>> No.1937016

1 a
2 b
3 b
4 b
5 b
6 b
7 a
8 b

wtf

>> No.1937032

>>1936820
b, a, b, b, b, b, a, b

>>1936917
b, a, a, b, a

>> No.1937036

a
b
b
a
a
b
a
b

>> No.1937044

>>1937036
OH SHI-

>>1936993
That's from a TED talk ain't it? I saw that, very interesting.

>> No.1937049

1. a
2. b
3. a
4. b
5. a
6. b
7. a
8. b

7/8 - interesting

>> No.1937052

>>1936949

a
b
a
a
a

4/5.

>> No.1937062

a
b
b
b
b
b
a
b

>> No.1937070

I only got 2 correct. Obviously, there are sounds that can be considered "round" or "airy" or whatever, but they don't necessarily have any bearing on what the word actually means.

>> No.1937109

>>1937044
The motivational? if it is, i'll shit my pants, 'cause i made it a few years ago

if you just mean bouba/kiki/synesthesia, i learned about that in a neurology book when I was in high school. But yes, it's all very interesting!

>>1937012
>especially when you take into account the shapes of the letters used to make the word associated with the shape.

yeah!

>> No.1937112

a, b, b, b, b, b, a, b

7/8. Shit.

>> No.1937117

a
a
b
b
b
a
a
b

>> No.1937121

>>1936917
b
b
a
b
b

>> No.1937125

>>1936949
a b a b a

>> No.1937128

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_articulation

>> No.1937153

>that certain sounds have innate visual associations
How do we know if they are innate or not?
We are familiar with language because of our age, so of course our familiarity with language lends itself to the sensation that the sound of words are associated with images.
How do you know that this hasn't been "innate" capacity has been bred into us by our education in language?
You'd have to test a child.

>> No.1937168

OP; you read New Scientist don't you? Good magazine, that.

>> No.1937174

1. a
2. b
3. b
4. a
5. a
6. b
7.a
8. b

>> No.1937177

1. b
2. b
3. b
4. a
5. a
6. b
7. a
8. b

>> No.1937186

Try Portuguese.
1. Escuro - (a) Bright (b)Dark
2. Molhado - (a) Dry (b) Wet
3. Leve - (a) Light (b) Heavy
4. Mal - (a) Bad (b) Good
5. Deitar - (a) Lie (b) Rise
6. Frio - (a) Warm (b) Cold
7. Lento - (a) Slow (b) Fast
8. Correr - (a) Walk (b) Run
1b, 2b, 3a, 4a, 5a, 6b, 7a, 8b

>> No.1937188

>>1937153

That's why I've tried to use a language which is very culturally and linguistically isolated from others (japanese), with a completely distinct origin from, say, slavic languages to test it.

But you're right, for this test to be truly objective you would need to test a child.

>> No.1937195

>>1937186

b
b
a
b
a
b
a
b

7/8.

>> No.1937197

1. Akarui - (a) Bright (b)Dark
>b

2. Nureta - (a) Dry (b) Wet
>a

3. Omoi - (a) Light (b) Heavy
>b

4. ii - (a) Bad (b) Good
>b

5. Neru - (a) Lie (b) Rise
>a

6. Suzushii - (a) Warm (b) Cold
>b

7. Osoi - (a) Slow (b) Fast
>a

8. Hashiru - (a) Walk (b) Run
>b

>> No.1937207

I got most of them, aside from the fourth because I associated the word ii with iie which basically means 'no' in japanese and thus something negative or 'bad'. Also, it's kind of sounds like the word 'eww' or 'eek' which are usually negative reactions to something

>> No.1937210

>>1937197
6/8

Very interesting.

>> No.1937212

so a skilled bunch of cavemen synaesthetes developed language (or a less sensorious multitude groped their way to it).

The consensus on language is that it was an arbitrary imposition, with little grounding, logical or otherwise. This inchoate origination is reflected in the 'language games' Wittgenstein discusses, performativity being the closest you can get to rationalizing idiom, and the failure of the Frege, Whitehead, Russell project.

>> No.1937218

Could we perhaps use this to communicate with species from other planets? Is this another step towards procedurally generated poetry?

>> No.1937226

Have some Polish:

1. Ciemny - (a) Bright (b)Dark
2. Suchy - (a) Dry (b) Wet
3. Lekki - (a) Light (b) Heavy
4. Dobry - (a) Bad (b) Good
5. Wstawać - (a) Lie (b) Rise
6. Zimny - (a) Warm (b) Cold
7. Wolny - (a) Slow (b) Fast
8. Biegać - (a) Walk (b) Run

The 'ć' sounds like 'chi', basically.
Also answers:
1b, 2a, 3a, 4b, 5b, 6b, 7a, 8b

>> No.1937241

>>1936820
1. b
2. b
3. b
4. b
5. b
6. b
7. b
8. b

Why did I get b on everything? Am I doing it wrong?

>> No.1937256

Thinking words have intuitive meaning beyond the arbitrary meanings given to them is equal to saying that seeing Jesus in a piece of toast is legitimate. The human mind is a fickle thing.

>> No.1937258

>>1936917
1. b
2. b
3. b
4. b
5. a

(same guy with all b's last time) I think something's fucking wrong with me. I'm good at language but wtf with all my b's. Probably because I'm an uber aspie.

>> No.1937260

>>1937256
I really don't think that's a good comparison.

>> No.1937262

>>1937258
>calls himself an aspie
summer, summer everywhere

>> No.1937264

>>1937260
It's literally the same thing. A sensory perception is altered to be familiar despite lacking any facts towards a legitimate connection.

Happens every day.

>> No.1937268

>>1937264

but why should it be familiar? these languages had completely different origins.

>> No.1937271

1. a
2. a
3. a
4. b
5. a
6. a
7. a
8. b

>> No.1937283

>>1937268
>these languages had completely different origins.

Despite their geographical differences, languages have a common origin in the human brain, which is roughly the same organ wherever you find it.

>> No.1937301

for 5 and 6 both answers are wrong

neru is more accurately to go to sleep (nekurobu is to lie down without sleeping), and suzushii is cool not cold (samui)

>> No.1937302

>>1937283

Precisely.

The brain innately associates certain sounds with certain visual and spatial properties, which provided a catalyst for the development of language.

This is why I don't believe we could communicate with an alien species in this way as the phonaesthemes we observe may be unique to human brains.

However, if certain visual properties are naturally reflected in certain waves or sounds, then we would expect to see similar associations being made throughout the animal kingdom.

I would like to perform these experiments on other apes.

>> No.1937311

>>1937301

Well they are correct enough for the purposes of this experiment anyway, but thank you for pointing this out to me.

>> No.1937320

8 out of 8 correct.

Very interesting, OP.

>> No.1937490

a
a
b
b
b
b
a
b

i'm skeptical.

>> No.1937504

I got 4 of 8. I may as well flip a coin.

I don't buy it, OP.

>> No.1937515

1. b
2. b
3. b
4. b
5. a
6. a
7. a
8. b

I already knew the fourth, seventh, and last ones.

>> No.1937741

where did you hear about this?

>> No.1937743 [DELETED] 

mfw i speak enough japanese to know all this, so I'm automatically cheating
;_;

>> No.1937762

a
b
b
a
b
b
a
b

I would also like to congratulate you (OP) on creating such a interesting, and original thread.

>> No.1937769

b a b a b b b b

Apparently not in my case. Guess I'm dumb.

>> No.1937771

1 B
2 A
3 B
4 A
5 B
6 A
7 B
8 B

>> No.1937781

>>1937743

try the other languages others have posted, bro.

>> No.1937807

1. Akarui - (a) Bright (b)Dark
dark

2. Nureta - (a) Dry (b) Wet
wet

3. Omoi - (a) Light (b) Heavy
heavy

4. ii - (a) Bad (b) Good
bad

5. Neru - (a) Lie (b) Rise
rise

6. Suzushii - (a) Warm (b) Cold
warm

7. Osoi - (a) Slow (b) Fast
slow

8. Hashiru - (a) Walk (b) Run
run

>> No.1937808

A.
B.
B.
A.
B.
A.
B.
B.

>> No.1937814

A
B
B
A
A
B
A
B


Got one wrong.

Pododododo.

>> No.1937817

>>1937743

ur such a kewl guy

>> No.1937839

a
b
b
b
a
a
b
b

>> No.1937852

a
b
b
b
a
a
b
b

6/8, neat

>> No.1937862

1. A
2. B
3. B
4. A
5. B
6. B
7. B
8 A

>> No.1937913

1. a
2. a
3. b
4. b
5. a
6. a
7. b
8. b

>> No.1937994

a
b
b
b
a
b
a
b

8/8 HOLY SHIT

>> No.1938051

a
b
b
a
a
b
a
b
7/8

>> No.1938082

1. a
2. b
3. b
4. a
5. a
6. b
7. a
8. b

>> No.1938088

1a
2b
3b
4b
5a
6b
7a
8b.

>> No.1938092

1. B
2. B
3. B
4. A
5. A
6. A
7. A
8. B

>> No.1938103

>>1936820
A B B A A B A B
7/8
Interesting. I don't know any Japanese at all. I was trying to associate letters and sounds with feelings. I'm surprised it worked for the most part.

>> No.1938112

1b
2b
3b
4b
5a
6a
7a
8b

Didn't check answers before posting, sounds interesting.

>> No.1938356

Fucking awesome idea. Have heard of this theory and some powerful arguments against it. Here we go...

1. Akarui - (a) Bright
2. Nureta - (b) Wet
3. Omoi - (b) Heavy
4. ii - (b) Good
5. Neru - (a) Lie
6. Suzushii - (b) Cold
7. Osoi - (a) Slow
8. Hashiru - (a) Walk

>> No.1938388

>>1938356
HOLY FUCKING SHIT I got 7/8. Five minutes ago I thought this theory was a load of shit. Thanks OP for challenging my beliefs..

>> No.1938389

a
b
b
a
a
b
a
b

>> No.1938409

Isn't it true that Japanese contains an unusually large number of onomatopoeic words, and so probably isn't typical as regards sound symbolism.

I notice that something similar happens in Fantasy literature. I don't know anyone called ZAGOROTH, but if a character of that name appeared in a novel, I'd have a pretty good idea about what side they were on.

>> No.1938410

>>1936820
Are you gonna whip up a spreadsheet/graph for this OP?

Good experiment but some problems:
>It's 4chan. Even on this board you'd have to factor in a 10% troll response.
>How does I pronounce Japans? eg,
>NU-re-ta?
>nu-RE-ta?
>nu-re-TA?

Still a great idea, sadly I'll have to go before this is resolved.

>> No.1938425

1a
2a
3b
4b
5a
6a
7a
8b

>> No.1938432

>>1938410
nah-rue-toe

>> No.1938438

abbbaaab

One wrong. Very interesting.

>> No.1938443

>>1938410
noo-reh-tah
There is no stress accent in Japanese. Which is to say, dessert and desert sound the same to them.

>> No.1938465

>>1938443
that is incorrect
source: ordering salmon, receiving booze

>> No.1938639

A
B
A
A
A
B
A
B