So the moral is that religion is bullshit, right?

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Anonymous Fri Oct 29 19:21:10 2021 No.19311327 [Reply] [Original]

So the moral is that religion is bullshit, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 19:22:01 2021 No.19311335 File: 1.58 MB, 250x220, 1606358698554.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >looking for "morals" in fiction

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 19:28:50 2021 No.19311363 My takeaway was that plans always get ahead of the people that make them. The jihad gets ahead of Paul, Paul gets beyond his mother who gets beyond the Bene Gesserit and so on.

Anonymous Fri Oct 29 19:46:31 2021 No.19311451

>>19311327
Good quote from Frank Herbert someone posted several days ago that I had never seen before

I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." One of the most dangerous presidents we had in this century
was John Kennedy because people said "Yes Sir Mr. Charismatic Leader what do we do next?" and we wound up in Vietnam. And I think probably the most valuable president of this century was Richard Nixon. Because he taught us to distrust government and he did it by example.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 19:48:44 2021 No.19311461 >>19311451 God that's retarded

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:03:45 2021 No.19311536 >>19311461 You fucking coping lefty trannies KYS just talk normal

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:04:41 2021 No.19311540 >>19311451 >One of the most dangerous presidents we had in this century >was John Kennedy Nope, LBJ would have been a better answer.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:09:26 2021 No.19311567 >>19311451 what an absolutely moronic concept. So I guess that vindicates the worst president of all time Mr Donald Trump, because he teaches us to criticise government. What a clueless moron.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:15:42 2021 No.19311590 >>19311567 You realize he was calling Nixon a bad president right? Trump was useful in calling attention to the need for everyone to be knowledgeable about politics and to vote. 2020 had the highest voter turnout in 50 years

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:19:01 2021 No.19311601 >>19311327 The moral is Islam, specifically Shi'a Islam, is based.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:20:04 2021 No.19311603 yes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:25:48 2021 No.19311621 >>19311451 >And I think probably the most valuable president of this century was Richard Nixon. based

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:26:32 2021 No.19311627 >>19311601 But the old Reverend Mother of the Fremen refers to "your Sunni ancestors"

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:28:24 2021 No.19311633 >>19311327 Science fiction like Dune is the male equivalent of Harlequin romances.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:28:45 2021 No.19311635 >>19311590 >2020 had the highest voter turnout in 50 years It also had the most voted """president""" of all times, what's your point

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:30:51 2021 No.19311640 >>19311635 People turned out to vote because Trump was such a fuck up and they hated him. Him being a horrible president had a silver lining in renewed civic responsibility in the population

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:32:43 2021 No.19311652 >>19311635 Oh I see what you mean. I meant to say highest voter turnout percentage in 50 years

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:42:31 2021 No.19311692 >>19311633 What's a harlequin romannce? The literary equivalent of the romantic comedy in film?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:53:39 2021 No.19311732 >>19311640 >because Trump was such a fuck up Compared to who? Biden?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 20:56:51 2021 No.19311747 >>19311540 I was thinking Woodrow Wilson

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:01:35 2021 No.19311773 >>19311640 >Him being a horrible president Citation needed

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:03:55 2021 No.19311788 File: 314 KB, 828x728, 1609217829741.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19311773

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:35:13 2021 No.19311924 >>19311788 That just proves that the Jews hated him more than any previous president. Sounds like a positive to me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:45:58 2021 No.19311963 >>19311924 Jews are based though

Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:46:23 2021 No.19311968
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The moral was clearly the Golden Path^tm. People need to be forced to live by experiencing profound suffering. On the galactic societal scale, that means millennia of repression and stagnation imposed by an omnipotent worm deity until the pressure builds high enough for a great sowing of civilization that will ensure the immortality of the species.
On the personal scale that means suffering through the meaningless boredom of life and finally reaching the point where you can transcend the repression of your body and the external world and achieve immortality in Heaven.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:50:59 2021 No.19311981 >>19311788 >not putting obama into lost popular vote >putting trump in impeached

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:53:36 2021 No.19312001 >>19311968 Why is “the immortality of the species” even a goal worth striving for in the first place?

Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:54:04 2021 No.19312005

>>19311981
2008 United States presidential election
Obama 69,498,516
McCain 59,948,323
2012 United States presidential election
Obama 65,915,795
Romney 60,933,504

You're kind of right that Trump wasn't impeached once like the others. He was impeached twice

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 21:57:36 2021 No.19312017 >>19312005 Obama lost the popular vote in the primaries against hillary in 2008

Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:01:21 2021 No.19312034
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>>19312001
It's really more about free now that I think about it.
The golden path was necessary due to the events that are seen through prescience and not fully realized until after Chapterhouse: Dune.
Without the Golden Path, humanity stagnates: it grows ever more dependent on melange and Arrakis, on the Spacing Guild, the Bene Gesserit, and the other powers-that-be. Realize that, through the control of melange and the Kwisatz Haderach breeding program, the main powers of the Dune Universe literally control humanity's continued evolution.
Paul Muad'Dib and Leto II both foresee the final destruction of mankind by an unknown power due to its complacency. So, Leto attempts to instill such a hatred of the centralized power structure that's at the heart of humanity's stagnation so humans would do everything in their power to "scatter": to go to the farthest reaches of the known Universe to avoid being tied to one central authority. This causes the established powers to lose their hold on humanity's progress and future.
The Scattering has one major additional effect: the development of humanity's ability to avoid prescience, which allows a section of humanity to elude the unforeseen power in the universe that will ultimately destroy them. This side effect plays heavily into the unwritten final chapter of the series, later adapted into Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune.
In it, the unknown power uses a form of prescience to detect every possible move humans can make and provide the appropriate counter. That is, if I know what you're going to do before you do it, you can never defeat me. Developing the ability to avoid prescience allows humanity to have a fighting chance against the unknown power.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:01:30 2021 No.19312036 >>19311327 You obviously haven't read the whole series yet. The moral of Dune is that ruthless eugenics and totalitarian religious fascism are the only way for the human race to achieve complete transcendence and union with the godhead.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:02:16 2021 No.19312039 >>19312017 2008 Democratic Party presidential primaries Obama 17,535,458 Hillary 17,493,836 /pol/ has fried your brain. Trump was hated and Obama was loved

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:02:22 2021 No.19312041 >>19312034 free will*

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:04:29 2021 No.19312053 >>19311327 Frank Herbert said that the moral of the story is that great leaders should come with warning labels.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:06:24 2021 No.19312060 >>19311327 The moral is that predicting the future is a bad idea.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:12:41 2021 No.19312083 >>19312034 >Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune. No thanks

Anonymous Fri Oct 29 22:28:49 2021 No.19312135

>>19312039
>Obama was loved
Plenty of cranky conservatives criticized him and wrote books about him:

https://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-Bloodiest-Shameless-Cover-Up-ebook/dp/B007OVTD7E

https://www.amazon.com/Lawless-Administrations-Unprecedented-Assault-Constitution-ebook/dp/B0175P7P96

https://www.amazon.com/Scandalous-Presidency-Barack-Obama-ebook/dp/B078Z2D819

https://www.amazon.com/Unmasking-Obama-Fight-Failed-Presidency-ebook/dp/B08BT4NW2S

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 00:31:31 2021 No.19312603 >>19311627 Doubt. Did Abu Bakr tell you that lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 00:38:07 2021 No.19312626 >>19312603 In God Emperor one of the Idahos is trained in Zensunni. That is a syncretic combo of Zen and Sunni Islam

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 00:41:20 2021 No.19312637 >>19312626 Damn. Is that in the first book? That's all I audiobooked.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 00:45:59 2021 No.19312656 >>19312626 Nvm I just remembered that Shi'a consider themselves true followers of Muhammad's "Sunna" so my comment still stands

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 00:47:54 2021 No.19312661 >>19312656 All I know about it is the name. It's just throw away filler in the book.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 00:48:58 2021 No.19312667 >>19312661 All good, thanks for sharing, I didn't know, having just barely dipped into the Dune universe with the first book.

Anonymous Sat Oct 30 01:09:30 2021 No.19312716

>>19312034
>write a good book
>write a sequel
>be creative and keep the ball rolling
>write more sequels
the golden path is never defined because it would be stupid as an author to do it. so many things evolve through the sequence of the books. there's no need to go full retard like
>>19311335
but to think that the golden path was ever defined is just stupid. we hardly even get, as readers, a definitive enemy force. once again the closest we get is the suggestion of machines in the fourth book as the 'threat' leto2 was attempting to avoid, but where those machines came from that killed all of humanity is left up to us to decide. ix? survivors from the jihad? something else perhaps just simply inevitable?

>>19312083
based opinion
honestly the books should have ended after the fourth. everything after that feels like fan fiction, especially the sixth book with its inclusion of the jews and the continuation of weird shit like the sea child and the old folks-facedancers and especially the vg painting. heretics and chapterhouse just feel empty and tacked on. leto2 ended the narrative begun by the bg when they tried to create the kh, or whatever you'd call paul's story.
that said, holy fuck the books written by herbet's son stink of nepotism and stupidity. he could have avoided so much shame just by ending the dune saga on a high note with leto2's plunge. instead... well who can blame him. money and old age

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 01:32:44 2021 No.19312800 >>19311567 Go back to watching netflix, please fuck off forever.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 02:55:51 2021 No.19313066 >>19311327 The moral is the same as in C Jungs "Wotan" Charismatic leader bad but can't blame the people Also fanfic about the life of Muhammed

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 03:00:04 2021 No.19313079 >>19312039 But not as much as the yemeni children Obama fried with drones

Anonymous Sat Oct 30 03:32:46 2021 No.19313150

>>19312716
>honestly the books should have ended after the fourth.

I know what you mean. I like them all unequally but sometimes I do wonder what made him write one more. and one more. and one more.
His ideas and how he writes are compelling, it's just I can't even imagine how you get to the point of writing god emperor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 06:53:11 2021 No.19313683 >>19311327 >>but who was The Sabres of Paradise by Lesley Blanch?

Anonymous Sat Oct 30 07:15:34 2021 No.19313751
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>>19311601
Based, but I didnt get that from the books, and the Encylopedia sections about the Fremen and the Zensunni make it clear that their inspirations are Sunni in nature (with some Sufi tendancies as well)

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 07:17:39 2021 No.19313757 >>19311363 not leto though

Anonymous Sat Oct 30 07:37:44 2021 No.19313812

>>19311327
I took away a similar idea from this as LoTR, that being that the simple morality of smaller people can have a bigger impact in the grander scheme of things than those in power. In LoTR, Frodo's decision to pity Gollum and Gollum's simple minded desire for the ring are the two most significant causes of Sauron's demise, rather than traditional heroics. In Dune, the toppling of an empire and a universe wide jihad can be traced back to Jessicas simple desire to protect her son

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 09:23:04 2021 No.19314137 >>19313079 Well it's a damn shame that yemeni war orphans don't vote in the US elections, but still my point stands

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 09:25:16 2021 No.19314145 >>19311567 You realize he's literally saying "don't judge a book by it's cover", right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 09:38:15 2021 No.19314180 religion is a tool, when in an incestuous relationship with politics, it becomes a tragedy

Anonymous Sat Oct 30 10:10:19 2021 No.19314263

>>19313751
Actually looking again at the Encylopedia there is some aspects of Twelver Shiism in the Freman, particularly in the earlier concepts of the Madhi. Its interesting because I always thought that the the Freman's Islamic inspirations were soley Sunni:

>The ilm and figh (aspects of Zensunni religion) underpinnings of their culture had included latent suggestions of a Mahdi for millennia. The Fremen knew that someday a "Twelfth Imam" would emerge from hiding (or be "reborn") to unite The People, the Community of All Believers, and lead them against "the infidel" to realization of the "ideal religio-political community, the 'umma,' " the "brotherhood of prophets." Thus the Fremen would avenge their persecution and achieve their water-rich Paradise.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 12:55:30 2021 No.19314847 >>19311601 >>19313751 If Islam gets you to kill your friends over petty squabbles, maybe it isn't that based.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 16:52:59 2021 No.19315823 >>19311327 felt like he was pro religion desu but warlord/messiah (aka mohammad) sceptic i guess

Anonymous Sat Oct 30 18:25:44 2021 No.19316302

Not religion, but myth. Paul incited the jihad because he started to believe in the myth of himself. He embraced his status as the Lisan al Gaib, and as the Quisatz Haderach, even though that was the path that lead to the jihad and tens of billions of deaths. It’s hard to say whether he really could have stopped it, but it’s possible that he just didn’t want to. He became part of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also politicians are bad, oil is bad

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 18:43:04 2021 No.19316371 >>19311451 Objectively correct, Nixon was the last American Statesman

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 19:07:25 2021 No.19316474 Close but it's the opposite, the moral is that christianity is right and you will be judged.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 19:15:55 2021 No.19316504 >>19314263 based

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 19:37:47 2021 No.19316628 >>19311590 >>19311640 >>19311652 >actually believing this The CIA stole the election.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 22:12:48 2021 No.19317321 >>19311451 Unimaginably based

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 22:37:42 2021 No.19317440 >>19311451 What a terrible quote, so simplistic. Plus he refers to some american presidents in a tier-list fashion as if that was the ultimate pulse of society

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 22:40:16 2021 No.19317457 >>19311335 Christians do it

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 22:40:33 2021 No.19317458 >>19311968 Weird Hegelian, cringey vibe but that interpretation reminds me of Asimov's Foundation

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 30 23:57:51 2021 No.19317835 File: 25 KB, 943x156, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19312039 Thanks to DNC fuckery Obama was a two-faced mulatto and if Trump had any balls he would have staged a proper coup. too bad

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 31 00:02:44 2021 No.19317853 >>19311640 >People turned out to vote even the dead ones amazingly

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 31 00:05:47 2021 No.19317860 >>19317853 Even the imaginary dead ones. It's been nearly a year and the only voter fraud I know of that has been prosecuted from 2020 was Republican voters. Guy voted for his dead mother to own the libs

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/lit/ - Literature