/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19290581]

What philosophers would have been against the vaccine?

[Anonymous No.19290588]

>>19290581
How about ones that wouldn't be against it: FT Marinetti

[Anonymous No.19290591]

>>19290581
Would he be against it for NPCs? Or just himself

[Anonymous No.19290593]

>>19290581
I can at least imagine Nietzsche providing an interesting reason for being against the vaccine (assuming for the moment that he even would be against it). With everyone today it’s all some banal crap about personal rights or Jewish holograms

[Anonymous No.19290603]

this is all intuitive hunch, tear me to shreds

>against
Socrates
Plato
Plotinus
Augustine
Nietzsche
Hegel
Heidegger
>not against
Aristotle
Marcus Aurelius
Aquinas
Spinoza
Hobbes
Kant
Kierkegaard

[Anonymous No.19290620]

Cioran would've took it like a bitch.

[Anonymous No.19290649]

>>19290603
Hegel wouldn't be against. He is literally the "trust the science" philosopher

[Anonymous No.19290660]

>>19290581
none worth a dang, two dangs, a hoot OR a holler.

[Anonymous No.19290796]

>>19290603
>Nietzsche the atheist, lover of science
>against vaccines
No

[Anonymous No.19290801]

>>19290796
OP said "the vaccine" not "vaccines"

[Anonymous No.19290837]

not a philosopher, but definitely Orwell

[Anonymous No.19290855]

>>19290837
lol no

[Anonymous No.19290861]

[Anonymous No.19290870]

Foucault

[Anonymous No.19290930]

>>19290796
Nietzsche would see all of the vaccine campaigns as using dishonest moralizing ("get the vaccine or you're a bad person" type stuff) to cull a disease that does nothing to the truly capable and only kills the ultra-ultra old or the ultra-ultra fat, who Nietzsche sees no value in anyway. There's a lot going on in the presentation and aims of the vaccine that is directly against N's core beliefs.
>atheism automatically means pro-science(tm)
must be 18 years old to post on 4channel

[Anonymous No.19290989]

>>19290930
He was a pussy though and would have gotten it himself

[Anonymous No.19290998]

>>19290581
not a philosopher but he only used natural medicine, at least while being in Cairo

[Anonymous No.19291050]

>>19290603
Put Plato and Hegel into the "not against" category and put Kierkegaard into the "against". Also you could definitely add guys like Foucault or Deleuze in the "against"

[Anonymous No.19291053]

>>19290930
>Nietzsche would see all of the vaccine campaigns as using dishonest moralizing
No, he would mock the vaccine because it would be saving the lives of lesser men, like yourself, while taking it. The problem with the vaccine is that it stems from the liberal obessesion that all life is "equal" or "matters" when that clearly isn't the case. Some people are better of being dead, like yourself, because you're wasting oxygen other insects could use for their existance.

[Anonymous No.19291302]

>>19290603
>Marcus Aurelius
>live according to nature
>inject experimental chemicals in your blood
Kek

[Anonymous No.19291307]

>>19291302
nature is experimental chemicals

[Anonymous No.19291322]

>>19291302
>RNA isn't natural
We got a massive retard here

[Anonymous No.19291348]

>>19291307
>>19291322
vaxcattle programmed responses

[Anonymous No.19291430]

I'm guessing Ellul.

[Anonymous No.19291432]

>>19290581
Teddy K

[Anonymous No.19291438]

ummm Agamben

[Anonymous No.19291510]

>>19290603
Have you not read Crito?
Socrates/Plato would get any jab the state will mandate by muh sacred laws.

[Anonymous No.19291549]

Philosophers can’t exist in a world with vaccine mandates.

[Anonymous No.19291562]

Nietzsche wasn't against medicine lol

[Anonymous No.19291568]

>>19290603
>Kant
>using people as a mean stop ''contamination''

[Anonymous No.19291593]

>>19290581
More or less absolutely all of them. Every single one in the serious 'canon' given the right info sources would have been smart enough to see that it's largely pushed by tyrants for the sake of control and their justifications actively go against basic standards of scientific evidence and reason. Each of them would have their own reasons to oppose it.

[Anonymous No.19291597]

>>19291593
meds

[Anonymous No.19291688]

>>19291597
Do your own research.

[Anonymous No.19291701]

>>19290603
>Kant
>Plato
>On different sides
KEK

[Anonymous No.19291707]

>>19291302
>Living according to nature is avoiding anything artificial

Brainlet

[Anonymous No.19291712]

>>19290796
He literally hates science and thinks it subtly brainwashes into being receptive of Liberalism and socialism lol

[Anonymous No.19291756]

>>19290581
Why would he be against the vaccine? Was he against medicine?

[Anonymous No.19291766]

>>19290796
>lover of science
lol

[Anonymous No.19291792]

>>19290620
He would have took it without giving a fuck about it probably. In fact he would have probably hoped that it actually kills you.

[Anonymous No.19291848]

>>19290591
>>19290593
>>19290796
>>19290930
>>19290989
>>19291053
>>19291562
>>19291756
From the primacy he gives to physiology, the care for the care for the body, the diet strictiness he sees as indispensable for the healthy constitution of the body and spirit, he wouldn’t take it. Plus, despite not needing to appeal to any other thing beyond the instincts, he would show how studies point to solid immunity against the virus from physical activity (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32728975/)) and how natural immunity is stronger and lasts much longer than the cattle injection (vide https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1))

[Anonymous No.19291879]

>>19291848
>studies point to SOLID immunity against the virus from physical activity
>Thus, regular practice of adequate intensity is suggested as an AUXILLARY tool in strengthening and preparing the immune system for COVID-19.

>natural immunity is stronger and lasts much longer than the cattle injection
>though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease

What were Nietzsche's thoughts on lying?

And even following these principles - wouldn't it mean that exercising AND taking the shot (and then living through a mild infection to develop a natural immunity) is the superior option?

[Anonymous No.19291911]

>>19291879
I do enjoy this tactic of taking statements out of context and trying to pretend that they mean the opposite of what they do. It's a tactic only people as desperate as you folks would need to try.

[Anonymous No.19291917]

>>19291879
Why am I lying, sheep? Did I say that he only preached movement of the body? Didn’t I also point to his dietary conclusions?

>>though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease
What even is your point here?

> wouldn't it mean that exercising AND taking the shot (and then living through a mild infection to develop a natural immunity) is the superior option?
Hypochondriac mentality triggered by mediatic fearmongering. Find me anything showing that a the flu is dangerous to a healthy immune system.
(Literally: “take this vaccine whose efficacy wanes after a few weeks to have a good immunization against the virus and don’t listen to those remembering that natural immunity is possible”).

[Anonymous No.19291928]

>>19291879
Ah also, just a little reminder:
> The sick man is a parasite of society. In certain cases it is indecent to go on living. To continue to vegetate in a state of cowardly dependence upon doctors and special treatments, once the meaning of life, the right to life, has been lost, ought to be regarded with the greatest contempt by society. The doctors, for their part, should be the agents for imparting this contempt,—they should no longer prepare prescriptions, but should every day administer a fresh dose of disgust to their patients. A new responsibility should be created, that of the doctor—the responsibility of ruthlessly suppressing and eliminating degenerate life, in all cases in which the highest interests of life itself, of ascending life, demand such a course—for instance in favour of the right of procreation, in favour of the right of being born, in favour of the right to live. One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death should be chosen freely,—death at the right time, faced clearly and joyfully and embraced while one is surrounded by one's children and other witnesses. It should be affected in such a way that a proper farewell is still possible, that he who is about to take leave of us is still himself, and really capable not only of valuing what he has achieved and willed in life, but also of summing-up the value of life itself.

[Anonymous No.19291934]

>>19291879
I'm not taking the pharmaceutical product statist bootlicker. I hope you die from covid.

[Anonymous No.19291957]

>>19290581
O. K.

[Anonymous No.19291977]

>>19291911
I love when retards like you don't read your studies, and then get debunked by people who do.
>>19291934
Nobody is going to force you to take it because you don't have a job, and nobody cares if you die anyway.

[Anonymous No.19292001]

>>19291848
>>19291879
He would probably be in support of mandated vaccines for people working in offices and retail and in support of people outside those environments rejecting it. There's no one suitable path for everyone.

[Anonymous No.19292023]

>>19291977
I think the poison in the vaccine is working…
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

> At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days (Fig. 1). In fact, the trend line suggests a marginally positive association such that countries with higher percentage of population fully vaccinated have higher COVID-19 cases per 1 million people. Notably, Israel with over 60% of their population fully vaccinated had the highest COVID-19 cases per 1 million people in the last 7 days. The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated.

> For instance, in a report released from the Ministry of Health in Israel, the effectiveness of 2 doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vaccine against preventing COVID-19 infection was reported to be 39% [6], substantially lower than the trial efficacy of 96% [7]. It is also emerging that immunity derived from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine may not be as strong as immunity acquired through recovery from the COVID-19 virus [8]. A substantial decline in immunity from mRNA vaccines 6-months post immunization has also been reported [9]

[Anonymous No.19292032]

>>19292001
No, he wouldn’t care. Read the Geneogy of Morals where he says the healthy should’t take care of the sick. Plus: >>19291928

[Anonymous No.19292048]

>>19292032
>the healthy should’t take care of the sick
Masters have to tow the line with their slaves, otherwise there'll be a revolt. There'd be bigger problems if the government wasn't pushing a vaccine to "essential" workers (read: slaves).

[Anonymous No.19292049]

>>19292032
I don't see the part where he said that doctors should be abolished - only that he was against palliative care. Vaccination is not palliative care - it's a prophylactic. The whole point is not ending up dangerously sick and bedridden.

[Anonymous No.19292082]

>>19290581
A thread died for this

[Anonymous No.19292118]

>>19292049
His prophylaxis is what I told you here: >>19291848. Vaccination is dependence, now imagine what semestral vaccination is.

>>19292048
Read the Genealogy. The masters don’t take care of the sick.

[Anonymous No.19292128]

>>19290998
Yeah, Guenon literally died of a treatable respiratory disease because he refused western medicine.

[Anonymous No.19292240]

>>19292118
>The masters don’t take care of the sick.
What do you think would happen if the government wasn't mandating vaccines to essential workers? The economy would likely come to a screeching halt, because workers would stop going to work, since it would become quickly apparent that the government isn't interested in taking care of them.

[Anonymous No.19292248]

>>19292118
>His prophylaxis is what I told you here
No, that's just your conjecture. You need to make a case for it.

>Vaccination is dependence
By this logic, so is drinking water. Based Fred was against drinking water.

[Anonymous No.19292251]

>>19292128
based (pbuh)

[Anonymous No.19292258]

>>19291593
This

[Anonymous No.19292263]

>>19292128
(PBUH)

[Anonymous No.19292268]

>>19292023
Trust the science. Take the jab. Subscribe to Blacked.com.

[Anonymous No.19292294]

>>19291593
So this is the power of söy…
You’re as bad, if not worse than this guy >>19291302

From the top of my head a strong case could be made for the following to have been against it: Socrates, Nietzsche and Foucault.
Stop projecting your bias towards dead white males

[Anonymous No.19292303]

>>19292240
I already told you twice to read his book, lol. You are taking into consideration a society and government that is built on the very things Nietzsche was against. Nietzsche does not support this system.

> Preventing the sick making the healthy sick—for that is what such a soddenness comes to—this ought to be our supreme object in the world—but for this it is above all essential that the healthy should remain separated from the sick, that they should even guard themselves from the look of the sick, that they should not even associate with the sick.

>>19292248
Read his books, everything I said is there.

[Anonymous No.19292306]

>>19292128
kino

[Anonymous No.19292309]

Reminder for everyone here that this >>19292294
is a typical bot response and you can learn to identify them through its features: nonsensical, buzzword-y, intending to provoke division and anger.

[Anonymous No.19292342]

>>19292309
>this is a state sponsored announcement: this meanie tore my stupid argument a new asshole, please disregard it and continue the discussion, comrades.

[Anonymous No.19292367]

>>19292303
>I already told you twice to read his book, lol.
I've read it already. I just don't agree with your application of it.

>You are taking into consideration a society and government that is built on the very things Nietzsche was against.
Nietzsche was no Marxist. In his later writings, he suggests in multiple places making use of democracy, Christianity, and corporate capitalism (referred to as "private enterprises" or something along those lines) in order to create a sphere for slave society separate from the sphere of a new elite society, the latter of which would become invisible to the slave society, as a further enhancement of the gulf between the two spheres of life. Further, he positioned the new elite away from the governments and the ultra wealthy because they are all in the same business of competing within a savage, peasant-minded treadmill for endless materialistic gratification. So, the government is part of the slave machine for him. It doesn't even really make sense to say that it's the "masters" taking care of "the sick" in this situation because both the government and essential workers would all be part of the same system for him.

[Anonymous No.19292371]

My guesses
>Against
Heidegger
Most Eastern Orthodox philosophers (Paisios said the mark of the beast would be a vaccine)
Ellul
Evola and other Traditionalists
Deleuze
Foucault
Sartre
Ted would probably disagree with the science related conspiracies but would tell you not to get it anyway
Heraclitus
Antisthenes
>For
Platonists (follow the laws even if you don't like them)
Most Catholic philosophers (Pope said it was okay)
Lacan would pretend to be skeptical but tell everyone to get it anyway because he doesn't want to lose out on cash at the end of the day
Confucius
Aristotle

[Anonymous No.19292416]

>>19292371
What would Lenin do?

[Anonymous No.19292420]

>>19292367
> he suggests in multiple places making use of democracy, Christianity, and corporate capitalism (referred to as "private enterprises" or something along those lines) in order to create a sphere for slave society separate from the sphere of a new elite society, the latter of which would become invisible to the slave society, as a further enhancement of the gulf between the two spheres of life.
Nice so you agree with me he was against this (gregarious) system.

> It doesn't even really make sense to say that it's the "masters" taking care of "the sick" in this situation because both the government and essential workers would all be part of the same system for him.
What you don’t understand is that this elite would not concern themselves with the maintenance of the banausos. Do you really think Nietzsche would think of proposing policies directed to the cattle? Like the elite would take part in the propaganda of wearint masks, social distance, lol. The only social distance would be distance from themselves. Read the excerpt above, there would be no direct order. He/the Elite wouldn’t care about weaklings among the weak (Nietzsche even says about how a thing that exists doesn’t necessarily has the right to life, how the sick should be removed). Like omg we need to help the cattle otherwise the social welfare of our society will decrease and our own strength be menaced!

[Anonymous No.19292425]

>>19292416
communists take vaccines

[Anonymous No.19292439]

>>19292425
But isn't the vaccine a tool of oppression used by the despicable ruling class to control the masses?

[Anonymous No.19292446]

Weren't the ascetic priests the ones in charge for the sick. Giving them a reason in themselves for their sickness and therefore preventing ressentiment against the healthy or something like that. So I'd understand it like, you are sick, cause you lack the stomach/are weak. It has been some time I read GoM and I read it in german, so I don't now how exactly it was translated.

[Anonymous No.19292447]

>>19292420
>Nice so you agree with me he was against this (gregarious) system.
Isn't that the system we have, though? Everyone is part of the slave machine, while the elite few are completely invisible to that machine, this elite completely defined intellectually and psychologically, pursuing its own interests and creating new values as these few create new art, start independent projects, and develop new technologies.

>What you don’t understand is that this elite would not concern themselves with the maintenance of the banausos.
The elite today aren't concerned with it. No one in government or the media is part of the elite.

[Anonymous No.19292471]

>>19290649
Not a very good take

[Anonymous No.19292527]

Hey.....

I'm sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But basically I'm just not gonna take it (the vaccine!!)

I know........... UGH I know....

But the thing is I'm just not gonna take it!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHA

[Anonymous No.19292542]

>>19292447
What values is this elite creating? What is their intellectual definition? Their purpose? All they do is precisely directed to the “lower”, their own values are nothing but occupation with the lower. Also they reach their position because of money, influence through the appeal to the masses.

> The elite today aren't concerned with it. No one in government or the media is part of the elite.
Just what I said above. But the media and governments are their very instruments.

All of this however supposing that there is indeed a hidden elite, which I would also suggest the possibility of a non-defined influence from not a certain group but corporations.

[Anonymous No.19292549]

>>19292527
Uhhhhhhhh based

[Anonymous No.19292565]

>>19291302
Aurelius was a statist bootlicker though. Most of the roman cannon is dicksucking the empire.

[Anonymous No.19292586]

>>19291593
This. Anyone who doesn't see it is literally on drugs like antidepressants and mood stabilizers. Everything since Truman has been horrible.

[Anonymous No.19292587]

>>19292542
>What values is this elite creating? What is their intellectual definition? Their purpose?
They're creating values out of their own interests through their creative work (the art, projects, and technologies mentioned before). Their purpose is self-fulfillment, and they're defined by their intellectual ability to navigate through all the different areas of society and become compatible with any of them while remaining independent from all of them and this independence going completely undetected by those around them.

>All they do is precisely directed to the “lower”, their own values are nothing but occupation with the lower.
You're not referring to the elite here. You're referring to members of the slave machine. Note that, if you don't personally share this intellectual capacity with the elite, then you won't be able to tell the difference between a member of this elite and someone who is a figurehead within the slave machine. The two will look identical to you. This elite is completely invisible to the eye that lacks genius.

>Also they reach their position because of money, influence through the appeal to the masses.
It has nothing to do with money. This elite can live modestly, it can be rich, it can even go through times of extreme poverty. What makes someone elite is their extraordinary genius that allows them to maintain their focus towards self-fulfillment, which is not overtly concerned with material gain, regardless of their circumstances at the moment.

[Anonymous No.19292591]

>>19291597
>be a drug addict like me to cope with how bad things are

[Anonymous No.19292599]

>>19292587
Well you’re obviously talking about something that doesn’t exist. No reason to engage with this.

[Anonymous No.19292629]

>>19292599
If such an elite existed, you would think that it doesn't exist, unless you were part of it. Kind of like how a dog has no hope of even imagining what's going on in the head of his/her owner. But the real point here is that you didn't really grasp the deeper political strategy that Nietzsche had in mind in his later years.

[Anonymous No.19292639]

>>19292587
But even taking all of this nonsense into consideration of an assumed reality, most of what you said have no connection with anything Nietzsche praised as high.

>they are creating art
What art?

>technology
With utilitarian and materialist (comfort) purposes, which Nietzsche criticized and denounced as something that produced weaklings, pessimists, sickness?

>projects
What projects?

>self-fulfillment
Absolutely anti-nietzschean.

>intellectual ability
Just a fiction of underlying pathos.
The rest is too nonsensical to even address.

>members of the slave machine
These members follow a strict program.
>intellectual capacity
There is no value in intellectual ability by Nietzsche.

>the elite can be rich and poor
I have no idea what you even meam by this. You mean the ideal or the actual? You seem completely confused

[Anonymous No.19292647]

>>19292629
Yeah we are living the true Nietzschean ideal, you really got his political strategy!

[Anonymous No.19292696]

>>19292639
>What art?
Whatever art they wish to create.

>With utilitarian and materialist (comfort) purposes
That's MOST technology, but not all of it. Some technology is created for the purpose of furthering the individual goals of this elite, for example, while they are creating their art. However, the elite would also obviously be in support of technology for those purposes as well, since the two spheres of life (the slave machine and the independent elite) must remain separated.

>which Nietzsche criticized and denounced as something that produced weaklings, pessimists, sickness
He criticized and denounced those things in regards to his elite. He did not, however, claim that those things should be banned from all areas of society. Nietzsche did not agree that everyone could get on board with the same values, and he did not think that exceptional individuals should strive to become the rule.

>What projects?
See above regarding art.

>Absolutely anti-nietzschean.
Fulfillment of the other is for slaves. Fulfillment of the self is for the independent. Genius is independent, but it's more than that, otherwise Nietzsche's overman would just be a very wealthy individual, which is clearly not what he thought.

>Just a fiction of underlying pathos.
t. does not possess this intellectual ability, so it must be a fiction.

>There is no value in intellectual ability by Nietzsche.
Unbelievably retarded. Now I suspect you haven't even read GM like you were recommending before.

>I have no idea what you even mean by this.
That's because you haven't read anything. Fuck off.

>>19292647
Who's "we"?

[Anonymous No.19292723]

>>19292696
Dude you are talking about things actual and ideal at the same time.

>they are creating art
>what art?
>whatever they wish

I can't even. I think you should leave the computer a bit. Try reading the guy in your free time too. What a waste.

[Anonymous No.19292732]

>>19292723
>actual and ideal
Not a distinction that occurs in Nietzsche's work. Idealism for him meant something else; "the actual" for him would be part of the idealism that he rejected.

>I can't even.
What art do you think the overman is in the business of creating

[Anonymous No.19292785]

>>19292023
Comparing covid data between countries is insanely difficult given how differently restrictions and data collection has been handled by each country. Deaths in the UK and Israel have fallen substantially despite higher amounts of cases in recent months compared to their previous peaks. Unless you believe that the reason deaths have dropped so much is because the vulnerable populations have all died off already, it seems that vaccines have done a pretty good job at preventing death.

[Anonymous No.19292844]

>>19292785
>Deaths in the UK and Israel have fallen substantially
Fake news. Fact check: peak of deaths /day in Israel in 2020: august, number: ~45; no vaccine.
peak of deaths /day in 2021: february, number: ~90; many people vaccinated.
peak of deaths /day after +80% of population being doubly injected: august and semptember, number: ~60

We conclude that the post reviewed is: FAKE.

also try not ignoring this:
>he effectiveness of 2 doses of the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) vaccine against preventing COVID-19 infection was reported to be 39%

[Anonymous No.19292852]

>>19292844
>peak of deaths /day after +80% of population being doubly injected
peak of deaths /day after +80% of adult population being doubly injected

[Anonymous No.19293112]

>>19292696
>>19292723
>>19292732
I realize I was mixing two separate ideas together when talking about the art / projects so my explanation was a bit vague and confusing. The elite, who are distinct from the overman (these would be his "hyperboreans") are creating art and starting projects in the service of the overman. Their purpose is not material gain, like the masses, but to serve the overman. The masses are incapable of such servitude, and must be entertained with a carrot on a stick, a materialistic treadmill that dangles money, fame, and other luxuries in front of them, because this is all they are capable of appreciating (not that the elite or the overman is incapable of that, but they are not primarily concerned with it). The overman, meanwhile, is the one who is pursuing his own interests, for no purpose other than his own self-fulfillment.

Still waiting for your reply on what you think the overman should be concerned with other than his own interests, considering you called this "anti-nietzschean" for whatever reason.

[Anonymous No.19293351]

>>19292128
Fucking based

[Anonymous No.19293538]

>>19290603
add all cynics to the against pile

[Anonymous No.19293748]

>>19290603
worthy bait

[Anonymous No.19293889]

>>19291756
he wrote gay science dude. a book entirely about ripping apart "trust the science"

[Anonymous No.19293944]

Stirner would have called the virus a spook

[Anonymous No.19293953]

>>19292416
The far left listens to whatever biden tells them