Classical languages

[Anonymous No.19281510]

Haven't seen a thread in a while discussing the Greek and Latin languages. Perhaps it is because jannies here have agreed upon a very inadequate definition of what counts as literature.
So before they delete this thread, let's discuss current readings, frustrations and accomplishments.

[Anonymous No.19281579]

I just translated the Archilochus shield poem for class. I've never translated poetry before, unless you count Hebrew/Aramaic, which is really straightforward. I still don't know how to read in meter, and I have to present this poem to a bunch of normies over the course of 5 minutes.
Here's my question: how many of you rely on dictionaries when making your translations. I have good grades in my classes, especially in Latin where I'm top of the class with a grade of 99.99%, but I'm constantly using dictionaries, those online ones that parse words for you too.

[Anonymous No.19281638]

>>19281510
Bump

[Anonymous No.19281674]

>>19281579
Unless it's a word that I know very well, I usually try to identify what type of word it is first. I usually struggle with verbs the most so I always have my grammar book with the verb tables open. When I have figured out what type of word it is I then search it in my lexicon. If I fail to identify the word I use an internet dictionary.

[Anonymous No.19281738]

>>19280358

[Anonymous No.19281859]

>>19281510
Anyone read Vitruvius? I feel like no one ever reads Vitruvius. Disclaimer: I have not read Vitruvius, yet.

Is there something funny about his Latin? He has a Loeb

[Anonymous No.19281877]

>>19281510
which is easier, Ancient Greek, or Latin?

[Anonymous No.19281940]

>>19281877
I'd say for beginners Latin is easier because there's more wind in your sails thanks to many Latin words surviving in other languages and you don't need to get adjusted to a new alphabet.
However Greek isn't nearly as difficult and some would want you to believe. You just need to stay conscious of your skill level and not just jump straight-ahead into someone like Sophocles.
I chose to learn Greek first because there was simply more material I found interesting in this language.

[Anonymous No.19281952]

>>19281877
On the surface, Latin is easier. It has simpler grammar/morphology than Greek, more cognates with English, familiar alphabet, etc. But after a while once you start making real progress with both languages, it feels like Greek is somehow easier to read and understand than Latin. Possibly due to the articles, or possibly just because Greek authors tended to use a simpler and less convoluted style than Roman ones.

[Anonymous No.19282465]

>>19281952
>>19281940
I started with Latin then stopped after a semester to pursue Greek. In Latin, I was the best in the class, was the only one to show up consistently during covid class, and got an A. In Greek, the next year, I struggled but got B's both semesters. Now, I'm taking both Latin and Greek. I have a 99.99% in Latin and an 85% in Greek. Greek feels so much harder. It's the hardest language I've taken, and I've taken a few. I don't think it gets easier. My fellow Greek students who've taken Latin agree with me, at least of the ones I've talked to. Maybe, it's the Greek prof, but he doesn't seem like a bad guy and certainly isn't inept at Greek.
In closing, Greek is hard, but the texts preserved in it make it worth learning. Take Greek, if you are considering it, and if you do take it, make sure to work hard and give it your all. Don't start out taking Greek and Latin in your very first semester of college.

[Anonymous No.19282476]

>>19281877
Latin for me, but I'm a native romance languate speaker

[Anonymous No.19282526]

>>19281510
I'm taking Ancient Greek right now, but the classical language I'm most familiar with is Classical Chinese. It's just so elegant.

[Anonymous No.19282805]

bump

[Anonymous No.19282817]

Posted this yesterday and got one joke reply so ill just post it again

How good is it

[Anonymous No.19282938]

>>19282817
It's good. Would recommend.

[Anonymous No.19283981]

How should one begin with Latin?

[Anonymous No.19284021]

>>19283981
LLPSI seems pretty good.

[Anonymous No.19284040]

anyone read Lactantius? he seems to be a forgotten gem desu. i read a few translated lines and he seems to be great

[Anonymous No.19284241]

How is Teach Yourself Ancient Greek? I downloaded both the new and old ones.

[Anonymous No.19284311]

>>19281510
looking to get accepted into a post-baccalaureate program in Classics, so I'm trying to level up my Greek with Athenaze and polish my Latin with Fabulae Syrae. Has anyone gone through Orberg's Roma Aeterna? I've read the first few chapters some months ago, and they were a noticable step up from Familia Romana, but I got busy with other stuff/lazy and didn't keep up with it. After I finish Fabulae Syrae I'm thinking of giving it another go.

[Anonymous No.19284482]

check this post >>19284472

[Anonymous No.19284837]

Is "Latin 101 - Learning a Classical Language" by Hans-Friedrich Mueller from TGC any good?
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/latin-101-learning-a-classical-language
I got a magnet for all the lectures, but I want to know if it's worth the time.

[Anonymous No.19284946]

>>19284482
good stuff though I wish someone made a Greek version of LLPSI ie. a reader that doesn't force you to look up words so often

[Anonymous No.19285271]

bump

[Anonymous No.19285505]

>>19284946
Someone's working on it. https://seumasjeltzz.github.io/LinguaeGraecaePerSeIllustrata/

[Anonymous No.19285614]

check:
>>19285596
>>19285605

[Anonymous No.19285926]

>>19285505
Very nice. Εὐχαριστέω.

[Anonymous No.19286692]

>>19285505
Blessed post

[Anonymous No.19286749]

what would be a good supplement to Athenaze? I've been reading the English version but have here and there read the Italian version as well for more content, but idk what else would be good to supplement my readings with. I'm only on chapter 6, if that helps.

[Anonymous No.19286822]

>>19286749
why do you feel like you need supplements? i’m using a different textbook but i’m probably going to finish it before i take a deeper look at other materials. actually i did use quinn & hansen at the begenning as well because the structure was cleaner than in the book i use.
maybe just fool around and download a bunch of pdf’s and see if there’s anything that you find interesting

[Anonymous No.19286989]

>>19284946
I think Italian Athenaze is close to that, though it still has a few explanatory notes in Italian.

[Anonymous No.19287139]

>>19286822
>why do you feel like you need supplements?
I don't, but I worded my post poorly. I'm open to the idea of adding supplementary reading to my current regiment, and wanted to ask anons if they had any recommendations. I may or may not add them to my current readings.

i'll look around and see if there's something that would be good to add.

[Anonymous No.19287325]

>>19284837
I did the ancient greek course. It was very good at organizing the grammar in a digestible way. It is heavily grammar focused (he's a classical philologist). There's some relevant homework (actual passage translation, write sentences in latin/english, complete word endings etc.) and he's pretty entertaining. Try and print out the book and work off of that. It would help to throw in a simple reader (probably LLPSI) to augment reading/grammar skills.

[Anonymous No.19287462]

>>19287325
cool dude. his method of teaching is very lucid but i find his stubborn unwillingness to pronounce Greek correctly frustrating

[Anonymous No.19287476]

>>19287462
By 'correctly' do you mean 'actually pronouncing the reconstruction instead of just mapping it onto the nearest English phonemes' or do you mean 'just using modern pronunciation'?

[Anonymous No.19287500]

>>19287476
Not sure if it's the same lecture, but I remember similar complaints about the Latin lectures on TGC. Something about pronouncing "v"s as "w"s and attempting to reconstruct possible old pronunciations instead of just teaching Ecclesiastical Latin which is what 99% of people who are learning Latin are learning it for.

[Anonymous No.19287509]

>>19287500
Oh, and by Ecclesiastical Latin, I also should group in how biological Latin terms are pronounced in the sciences. The Latin pronunciation he teaches goes against both of those most common uses.

[Anonymous No.19287513]

>>19287476
either. i think the erasmian pronunciation is pretty widely accepted in academia now, at least in europe. that's more or less what i was taught.

[Anonymous No.19287541]

>>19287500
Er, I'm pretty sure most students these days learn Classical pronunciation. Every textbook and lecture I've seen does.
>>19287513
Yeah, honestly I don't like the Erasmian pronunciation aesthetically either. As far as I can tell it's essentially a Renaissance-era attempt at reconstructing Classical Attic pronunciation, which we now know some details of to be wrong, but it's become conventional. I'd much prefer either modern pronunciation, or some attempt to actually follow our best reconstruction of some historical period as closely as possible.

[Anonymous No.19287567]

>>19287541
I studied Latin at a University in the US and we were taught classical pronunciation. I don't think Eclessiastical pronunciation was ever mentioned.

[Anonymous No.19288191]

bump

[Anonymous No.19288550]

>>19281859
only read a secondary text on him but i’ll have a jab at him once i’ve sharpened my latin enough. he had a massive impact on renaissance architects and classical propositions so its strange how little attention he gets nowadays.

[Anonymous No.19289346]

What about classical languages from Asia?

[Anonymous No.19289368]

>>19289346
I don't know if it's acceptable to bring it up here but I'm in a Discord server for classical languages from East Asia if anyone's interested.

[Anonymous No.19289375]

>>19289368
おめぇー!

[Anonymous No.19289397]

>>19281510
is it true that classic greek is the most "ontological" language?

[Anonymous No.19289409]

>>19289397
What would that even mean?

[Anonymous No.19289484]

>>19289409
i was struggling to elaborate further so the question was better coherent. but it seems tp me that in greek words there is a lot of meaning in just few short letters, something that doesn't seem true of English which appears to me bloated and perhaps too fulsome. for instance doesn't Greek ‘Being’ mean literally 'presentification into the unconcealed'? to me (somebody who doesn't know ancient greek) the essence of their words are captured in the word itself and don't need to explicated further.

[Anonymous No.19289546]

>>19289484
Not really, no. Many of them have specific meanings as terms of art in specific philosophical schools, but that applies to any language in which philosophy has been done.

[Anonymous No.19289617]

>>19289484
If you're looking for terseness then Classical Chinese is easily the winner.

[Anonymous No.19289680]

>>19289484
No. You're fetishising the unknown. In reality it's much less precise.

[Anonymous No.19289684]

>>19289484
>for instance doesn't Greek ‘Being’ mean literally 'presentification into the unconcealed'?
This is academic style in English. You can just say 'being' and be more accurate to the terms of the language.

[Anonymous No.19289707]

>>19289546
i was going off of Heidegger's infatuation with Greek. He asserted that Greek has a better capacity for philosophy, is a more philosophical language, than others due to its “basic structure and formation” (as he says in Intro to Metaphys.). He thought ancient greek language had at its foundation greek ontology; greek language emanated from their ontology. therefore greek was better suited than other languages besides german i suppose -- in fact he thought german was equally, if not more suited -- to investigate the question of being.

[Anonymous No.19289725]

>>19289707
That's nonsense.

[Anonymous No.19289761]

>>19289680
what is much less precise? that one word or ancient greek as a whole?

[Anonymous No.19289790]

>>19289707
Heidegger thought a lot of retarded things.

[Anonymous No.19289806]

>>19289617
You're not wrong.

[Anonymous No.19289866]

>>19289790
maybe but i buy his ideas that look at language as more than just a tool and examine. each language has a "spirit", an essence derived from a specific way of historical people thought and spoke. this spirit remains embedded in the word and the idea of "literal translation" is an absolute fallacy and is akin to the lesser form of truth where truth equals correctness. truth that Heidegger favors is truth as unconcealment which is what he thinks ancient greek is superior than others at accomplishing.

[Anonymous No.19290807]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19291337]

Are the Oxford Classical Texts worth the price if I don't speak Latin?

[Anonymous No.19292042]

>>19291337
What are they?

[Anonymous No.19293106]

>>19292042
Critical editions of ancient texts originally published in the 1900's and 1910's. The introductions and footnotes were written in Latin. Back then fluency in Latin was expected. I'm pretty sure Loebs were frowned upon by classicists up until the 90's when the standards in erudition started to crack.
I donated know about the newer editions but at least the ones printed in the 60's are very nice quality. It's hard to find them used without a ton of margin notes though.

[Anonymous No.19293453]

>>19289866
Sure, no translation is 100% precise, something will be lost in any case. But there's nothing particularly special about Greek in that respect.
>>19291337
Why would you buy a book in a language you don't speak?

[Anonymous No.19293530]

There were maybe a few dozen black people in my (large) high school

[Anonymous No.19293804]

>>19293453
>Why would you buy a book in a language you don't speak?
I'd buy it for the Greek obviously.

[Anonymous No.19293866]

>>19281510
I've been reading a lot of Juvencus, Sedulius, and Dracontius lately. Anyone else here like late epic poetry? The Latin is quite enjoyable in these texts.

[Anonymous No.19293890]

>>19282817
I'm in the middle of it and have really been enjoying it. There's also a number of supporting texts for it (perhaps someone can post the chart of them.) I would also recommend getting the notebook that goes with Lingua Latina.

[Anonymous No.19293915]

Does anyone recommend a particular series of published works in Latin? I know Loeb publishes in Greek, and that they also have English translations, but I've never seen a Loeb book in Latin. Also, does anyone have recommendations for bibles? I know there's Biblia Sacra Vulgata, but wasn't sure if there are other versions or what the advantages or disadvantages of them would be.

[Anonymous No.19293940]

>>19281510
I'm not sure why we don't constantly have Latin/Greek threads going. This board often goes for a week at a time without a classical language thread. Everyone who posts here should be learning one or the other language.

[Anonymous No.19293946]

>>19293915
>but I've never seen a Loeb book in Latin
hol up

[Anonymous No.19294028]

>>19289368
what's it like? which languages are you talking about? link?

[Anonymous No.19294117]

>>19293940
How do you learn Greek? I've heard it's very hard.

[Anonymous No.19294162]

>>19294117
3-6 months of diligent study done very well, 1 year of diligent study done well, 2 years of diligent study done merely okay, 500 years of non-diligent study with constant relapses and "I'll do it perfect later!! I'll start next week I swear! It's just so hard!!!"

The moral of the story is just start and keep doing it. Note I said diligent but not brilliant. The "done well" factor is if you have a teacher, or you're unusually smart or something. But note that diligence is the key factor and you WILL learn Greek if you have diligence but not some ideal situation.

It is a bit easier to learn Latin first so if you've interested in Latin too, and don't care which you start with, you could do that. But it's not the end of the world to just start with the Greek.

Most of the difficulty comes from memorizing morphology. There's a lot of it compared to other languages, even Latin. And a lot of the difficulty there comes from the fact that even Latin's comparatively smaller initial morpho-load is a lot for most modern students who aren't used to learning in this way. But after you get a solid (not perfect) grasp on morphology you can start reading, and as long as you just keep doing that, you WILL get where you need to go. That may involve partial restarts and review periods here and there but that's part of the fun.

It's really just that initial hurdle of "they really expect me to remember all this?" It's not even as bad as it looks, really. And yes, you can remember all that, you'd be amazed what you can remember. I always say this: when you are straining to remember something, like actively consciously thinking "I have to remember this, how can I remember this," the conscious part of that straining is giving you 1 point of memory of the thing you are trying to memorize, but what you DON'T see is that your unconscious mind is also doing 2 free points of memorizing for every 1 point of conscious. You need to suffer through the initial hump of "wtf I don't even feel like I'm learning this shit" long enough for the "wtf, I actually remember a lot more of this shit than I would have assumed" moments to start happening. Then you feel suddenly like you're on firm ground, and you can build.

[Anonymous No.19294620]

>declension and conjugation tables
SUFFO
AMOLO
RESPENDESCO

SUFRO
AMOLO
RESPLANDEZCO

STRUGGLE
GRIND
SHINE

[Anonymous No.19294629]

>>19293915
Here. You're welcome.
https://ryanfb.github.io/loebolus/

[Anonymous No.19294640]

>>19281510
going to be starting a Classics degree next year after leaving school years ago with no academic ambitions

'started with the greeks' a few years ago and now looking forward to tackling them in depth, even though I know, I know it's a worthless degree

[Anonymous No.19294702]

>>19294629
Thanks, but I don't like reading e-books unless I have to. I may just buy a few books in Latin and then harass some library staff and see if I can get some from there.

[Anonymous No.19294762]

>>19294702
Maybe you should re-state what you're looking for in a clearer way. It sounded likeyou wanted Latin Loebs (bilingual texts), but you thought Loebs only existed in Greek. That's not the case. You can find scans of them online. You can buy new printed copies online. You can buy used copies off Ebay. You can try to borrow free copies from the library.

Generally speaking if you you're interested in Latin texts (whether bilingual or not), you'll have an easier time if you don't rule out ebooks. I recommend getting a tablet and keeping your PDFs on there. Lenovo makes cheap tablets (roughly $100) that get the job done.

[Anonymous No.19295094]

>>19293940
Because of
> Perhaps it is because jannies here have agreed upon a very inadequate definition of what counts as literature.
/lang/ threads get moved to /int/ where no one gives a shit about dead languages (and only barely some shit about living ones).

[Anonymous No.19295200]

>>19295094
Classical languages are "humanities" and, as such, belong on /his/. Additionally, literature is also "humanities," so threads about literature also belong on /his/. There's a lot of troublemakers on here posting about books and suchlike that could use a global ban or two.

[Anonymous No.19295207]

>>19293804
Ah I see.
>>19294117
Athenaze seems good.
>>19295200
So what's this board for?

[Anonymous No.19295221]

>>19295207
>So what's this board for?
That sounds an awful lot like a philosophical question, which belongs on /his/. I hope the moderators give you a stern talking-to for this.

[Anonymous No.19295253]

>>19294640
>going to be starting a classics degree next year
planning on going into classics too. I studied linguistics in my undergrad, and liked a lot of it, but after studying Latin on my own and in classes I decided that I want to do something with at least Latin. I like philosophy in general though, so I've been studying ancient Greek as well, and plan to get into a post-bacc program in classics next fall.
>it's a worthless degree
is it? of course it depends on where you went to school, how you used your time, and where you are looking for a job, but I feel like there are a lot of potential jobs you could get with a degree in classics. you could do something with history, philosophy, Latin and ancient Greek themselves.

[Anonymous No.19296082]

>>19295207
Gratias tibi ago

[Anonymous No.19296349]

>>19293915
I'm not going to make fun of you for this. Check out the Latin Loebs and Oxford Classical Texts

[Anonymous No.19296408]

>>19281579
>how many of you rely on dictionaries when making your translations
You want every possible angle and etymology for reference, all the synonymous word and idea clusters, especially if you're doing an idiomatic rendering that needs justifiable departure points/vectors in imagery.

[Anonymous No.19296429]

>>19281859
Yes, he's extremely difficult. It nigh impossible to understand what he's trying to describe half the time. This was a problem in the Renaissance too, there was a huge amount of debate around the Latin in Vitruvius and a large part of our architectural inheritance from Vitruvius could be completely mistranslated.

[Anonymous No.19297539]

I’m currently in the middle of a Latin course, but became filled with remorse after watching a presentation on why the Ancient Greek language was vastly superior to Latin.

I speak a romance language plus I’m a lawyer, so choosing Latin was by far the easiest choice for me, but I’m starting to have second thoughts. Any book recommendations that talk about the importance and beauty of the Latin language to help motivate me again? Bonus points if comparable to ancient greek.
no, I don’t have enough time to learn both

[Anonymous No.19297624]

Is there a book for Greek that is similar to Familia Romana (which is for Latin)? I've been going through Familia Romana and shit, Latin is badass. I'm hoping to try and learn Greek someday in the future, and a book like that, but for Greek, would be awesome.

[Anonymous No.19297651]

learn ww2 german so u can read the filtered version of german idealism, check how it sounded --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL41xAqY2MM

[Anonymous No.19297810]

>>19297539
why did you decide to take a Latin course in the first place?

[Anonymous No.19297821]

>>19297539
What argument did they make for Greek being at all superior?

[Anonymous No.19297839]

Can anyone recommend any particular works to read in Latin? Currently reading through Caesar's Gallic Commentaries, but the prose is so plain and simple (as it was meant to be I presume). Suppose if you want flair you should read Cicero perhaps, but has anyone got any text in particular that they'd recommend to read next?

[Anonymous No.19297887]

>>19297539
Read the Latin authors chapter in A Rebours, where he's . That did it for me. Is the romance language French? That'd be ideal.

[Anonymous No.19297889]

>>19297887
Post auto sent too early. The one where he's describing all his favorites.

[Anonymous No.19297922]

>>19297624
seconding this

[Anonymous No.19298411]

>>19297624
check this out: >>19285505

[Anonymous No.19298975]

>>19298411
You can't learn greek with that.

[Anonymous No.19299131]

>>19294117
>>19294162
>>19297624
>>19297922
I've been studying about 30 mins to an hour a day at work for about a year now. I'm 2/3rds of the way done through part 1 of 2 of "Learn to Read Greek." It's a struggle every time I go to it, but it's so great when I do get a fairly complex Greek sentence right and translate it into a coherent and properly flowing English. I have nothing to compare to, but I really do like the Learn to Read Greek textbook and workbook. One of the harder parts for me was that without a teacher the answer key can sometimes make a stylistic choice of answer that doesn't necessarily explain or offer that there are correct alternatives equally as valid.

>>19297821
A lot of native Latin speakers back in the days of Rome still learned Greek as there was always a sentiment of Latin lacking tools for philosophical discourse that Greek provided. For instance Cato, while mocking Greeks and calling them effeminate, had a collection of Greek works he enjoyed to read. Quite often native Latin speakers, such as Marcus Aurelius, learned then wrote in Greek for works such as Aurelius' Meditations purposefully being in Greek and not Latin.

[Anonymous No.19299334]

>>19299131
>Aurelius' Meditations purposefully being in Greek
Never knew this and had to check. It's so strange to see his name on a green Loeb

[Anonymous No.19299506]

>>19299131
I don't think anyone will challenge Greek's supremacy in the realm of philosophical discourse, but I don't think that case alone can render it as 'vastly superior' to Latin, that anon must have been referring to something more fundamental than that, unless it was you that I replied to

[Anonymous No.19299520]

>spent several years studying latin
>realise there's no good literature in latin

[Anonymous No.19299534]

>>19299334
The red ones are Latin? I’m sort of confused because they still say “translated by” on them. Some people in this thread were sort of poking fun at me earlier for asking if Loeb publishes in Latin, but when I went into a store and looked at some the other day all I saw were English and Greek editions.

[Anonymous No.19299543]

>>19297839
Martial's Epigrams
It's basically a collection of antique shitposts.

[Anonymous No.19299559]

>>19299520
I've been dabbling with Latin in order to read the Vulgata. I know that Roman authors used to make fun of the language of it. But can you seriously claim that the works of Seneca or Cicero or the poets don't warrant an education in Latin?

[Anonymous No.19299569]

>>19299534
afaik all loebs are facing translations. green ones are greek+english, red ones are latin+english

[Anonymous No.19299614]

>>19287500
I have taken Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic courses. Obviously, my interest is Biblical, as well as Classical, but everyone here at this public university wants to learn and uses Classical pronunciation, including the Biblical studies people. I was at a Catholic university for a year, and over there, they all used Classical pronunciation too. Only retarded larpers are interested in Ecclesiastical pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.19299617]

>>19299520
Perhaps you would enjoy Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis. It's the story of a boy with magical powers who attends an academy to facilitate the cultivation of said powers. An interesting read.

[Anonymous No.19299623]

>>19281510
I'm learning latin.
what are some resources for ancient greek and ancient hebrew?
also what are some other interesting classical languages I should learn?

[Anonymous No.19299627]

>>19299520
read seneca.

[Anonymous No.19299641]

>>19299534
Yes, red ones are Latin (Latin-English bilingual) editions,
https://www.hup.harvard.edu/collection.php?cpk=1031
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeb_Classical_Library

>>19297839
What topics are you interested in? Are you looking for classical texts or anything? You could look at Arcadius Avellanus, for something different and newer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcadius_Avellanus

[Anonymous No.19299672]

>>19299623
You got to take it one step at a time. Get good at Latin, the language you first started, and then, move on to another while continuing to work on it.
For Hebrew, I recommend Weingreen's textbook, 2 Letter Lookup, STEP Bible (it's a website with interline Bible), Audio Bible in Hebrew from Torah Class, and maybe Cook's Hebrew workbook. I can't recommend for Greek because my experience has not been very positive, but I do recommend the Logeion and Perseus dictionaries, including for Latin (also Online Latin Dictionary).

[Anonymous No.19299695]

>>19299131
>I've been studying about 30 mins to an hour a day at work for about a year now. I'm 2/3rds of the way done through part 1 of 2 of "Learn to Read Greek." It's a struggle every time I go to it, but it's so great when I do get a fairly complex Greek sentence right and translate it into a coherent and properly flowing English. I have nothing to compare to, but I really do like the Learn to Read Greek textbook and workbook. One of the harder parts for me was that without a teacher the answer key can sometimes make a stylistic choice of answer that doesn't necessarily explain or offer that there are correct alternatives equally as valid.

Good for you! I'm happy for you, anon. Keep up the great work of not working while at work, and one day, you will be a Greek pro.

[Anonymous No.19299732]

>>19299641
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcadius_Avellanus

Based

[Anonymous No.19299947]

>>19297624
I think the Italian Athenaze is closer to that ideal but it still has some explanatory notes in Italian. Less than the English edition, though.
>>19298975
It's not yet at that point, no.
>>19299559
Why not just either read the Bible in your own language, or study the languages it was actually written in? Aleph with Beth for Biblical Hebrew seems nice. (>>19299623, you might like it)
>>19299614
What if I just think Ecclesiastical sounds nice and also puts the pronunciations of the words closer to the descendants I know from living languages?

[Anonymous No.19299959]

Bros...bros...help me bros. I have been studying Latin for about 7 years. Including several classes when I was at uni and then just self studying. My effort varied but usually I was always at least looking at Latin 4-5 times a week, trying to read 5-10 pages a day fairly regularly with some breaks, at a minimum. On the other hand during holidays and when I have time, I am reading three times that or more, like 50+ pages a day sometimes. I have read the Vulgate in full twice and lots of medieval Latin too.

Anyway, after all this I can read something like the Vulgate fairly easily and naturally. Julius Caesar or Cornelius Nepos or a few other authors I can also read, with a bit more difficulty and it feels like I'm "straining" when I read quickly but I still can and I understand it. But that's basically it. I open Virgil or Horace and read a few lines and I truly, unironically understand nothing. It's as if I knew no Latin at all. Even if I know some of the words, or all of the words...I have no fucking clue what it means.

Of course if I sit there and dissect the sentence and move things around in my head and maybe check a few words on Wiktionary then yes I can translate the sentence within maybe one or two minutes. But that is not fucking reading, that is solving a puzzle. I want to READ Virgil. Not mentally translate him sentence by sentence.

It's just really frustrating because I can't imagine it being like this in any other language. How can I read the Vulgate nearly normally, but I literally can't read Virgil AT ALL? It's not like an ESL reading Shakespeare where he can "read" it but it just sounds really archaic and fancy. I literally can't read it. I don't get it bros.

WTF is this? Am I being filtered? Is it too late? Started studying Latin when I was about 20 years old. Anyway, what am I supposed to do now? I'm getting older bros, they say it becomes harder to learn languages when you get older, do I have any hope?

[Anonymous No.19299986]

>>19299959
Have you heard the saying 読書百遍意自ずから通ず?

[Anonymous No.19300079]

>>19299959
Maybe the answer is just to read Virgil with whatever effort it requires on your part. Then come back and re-read it later. Take this opening of book two. Aeneas is beginning to narrate his story at the banquet in the Trojan court.

>Conticuere omnes intentique ora tenebant.
>Inde toro pater Aeneas sic orsus ab alto: Infandum, regina, iubes renovare dolorem,
>Troianas ut opes et lamentabile regnum
>eruerint Danai, quaeque ipse miserrima vidi
>et quorum pars magna fui...

What is the difficulty for you in interpreting this. Do you not the meaning of words ("'Contincuere?' What in the world is that???"), or do you know the vocabulary yet have trouble fitting the words together grammatically? If you struggle with the vocabulary, reading, looking up words, and re-reading is probably the best way to acquire the vocabulary to read Virgil, rather than reading other authors in hopes of happening to pick up the vocabulary that will be in the Aeneid.

>>19299986
How could you hear that? It's just a bunch of squiggles.

[Anonymous No.19300094]

>>19300079
Oh, ha ha. They're no more "squiggles" than the letters I'm writing this post in. Both have an arbitrary, culturally-determined relationship to sounds and words.

[Anonymous No.19300119]

>>19299959
it's much more difficult for an ESL to understand Shakespeare than what you say it is
vocabmaxx before grammarmaxxing
say the verse out loud
language learning is done mostly unconciously

[Anonymous No.19300152]

>>19300119
Honestly, even for a native speaker it's difficult, because there are some words that are either completely obsolete, or are never used in that sense anymore. So once every few lines we either have no clue or worse we think we understand but we've actually misunderstood.

[Anonymous No.19300237]

I've heard that Biblical Hebrew is easier if you're at least somewhat familiar with modern Hebrew beforehand. Is Greek similar?

[Anonymous No.19300296]

>>19300237
Any language is easier if you know a related one, though you have to be more careful of false friends.

[Anonymous No.19300829]

I've studied Latin for a couple years now, and have been studying ancient Greek for some months, but I am considering also learning Sanskrit at some point. I used/still use LLPSI for Latin, am using Athenaze for ancient Greek, but is there anything similar for Sanskrit?

Also, if you know Sanskrit, how easy is it to learn Pali? What about the other way around? I've heard Pali is in a sense a simplification of Sanskrit (even though it's thought that Pali doesn't descent directly from Sanskrit).

[Anonymous No.19301034]

>>19300829
I've heard of a 'direct method' video series for Sanskrit but it seems to be mainly targeted at native speakers of Indian languages, as in it assumes you'll recognize certain Sanskrit-derived words that are present in nearly all Indian languages.

[Anonymous No.19301063]

>>19300829
I saw some anon here talking about how you really need to just tackle devanagri. If you have studied Greek and mastered Latin to be honest nigga you're probably fine, I hear Sanskrit is a bit more difficult than Greek in some abstract way (more morphology, plus the initial devanagri problem), but that probably only makes sense if you're talking about "which is easier to start with." If you're already someone who knows how to roll up his sleeves and take Greek apart undaunted while doing Latin paradigms with his feet, you're sort of in the guild of guys who can just hack their way through anything other than fully logographic languages.

I know a couple people who know Sanskrit and to be frank they're morons.

[Anonymous No.19301159]

>>19286749
>>19286989
Does anyone have a pdf of Athenaze?

[Anonymous No.19301178]

>>19301159
look up 'Athenaze' on b-ok: they have both English and Italian versions.

[Anonymous No.19301189]

>>19301063
The main logographic languages in the modern world are Japanese and Chinese and frankly I don't think they're harder than Greek.
>>19301159
Libgen should.

[Anonymous No.19301312]

>>19301178
>>19301189
Thanks, I found it

[Anonymous No.19301339]

>>19289725
>That's nonsense.
>>19289790
>Heidegger thought a lot of retarded things.
Look at this NPC's and laugh.

All Languages are the windows to the Meaning and Sense-making of the Peoples that speak it through which they know themselves and others may know of them.

>>19289866
>>19289707
>>19289484
For you Anon.
https://www.europaeditions.com/book/9781609455453/the-ingenious-language

[Anonymous No.19302001]

If I am interested in working for a dictionary company, what would you guys recommend as being more useful to learn, old English or Greek? I am already learning Latin (as this seems the most useful for this purpose, aside from knowing contemporary English). Greek seems much more useful for reading, but if I am interested in dictionary work, I can't help but think that a better understanding of earlier English would be more useful than Greek.

[Anonymous No.19302016]

>>19302001
>dictionary work
what exactly did you have in mind? defining affixes? describing etymologies? you asked whether you should learn (presumably ancient) Greek or old English, so I assume you're looking to work with modern English dictionaries.

[Anonymous No.19302036]

>>19302016
>what exactly did you have in mind? defining affixes? describing etymologies?

It would depend on what I can get hired for, since it's not a large employment market. I can't help but think that at this point most dictionaries would focus on expanding etymologies, since that's where many of them are lacking compared to expanding upon affixes. (Companies such as Meriam-Webster and Dictionary.com don't do a great job with etymologies, in my opinion—though whether they're actually interested in fixing this is another matter.)

[Anonymous No.19302050]

>>19301189
They aren't harder to speak (much easier in fact) but they are harder to read. Anybody can learn Attic with a little time, Classical Chinese is a lifetime investment and the equivalent of a PhD or two.

[Anonymous No.19302515]

>>19299947
>What if I just think Ecclesiastical sounds nice and also puts the pronunciations of the words closer to the descendants I know from living languages?
Then pronounce it that way. Most people who learn Latin for realsies prefer the Classical pronunciation, and that's all that it is. Plus, the Renaissance guys preferred Classical. Pronunciation is only a small part of the language.

P.S. I aced my pronunciation examination today. I have a 99.99% in Latin now and am feeling good.

[Anonymous No.19302635]

I have an assignment for a class on Lucretius coming up where I have to comment on a translation of my choice, what it conveys effectively, what I would have changed, etc. What are the most kino translations of Lucretius? The modern poetic translations "roughly containing six stresses in a line" may be very true to the syntax, but they're so soulless and sterile. Are Dryden's or Creech's translations good? Or what other good ones are there? Beauty is okay even if it takes liberties.

[Anonymous No.19303266]

>>19302635
don't pick the "most kino" one. pick the translation that gives you the most to write about.

[Anonymous No.19303416]

>>19302515
>pronunciation examination
what kind of/level Latin course are you taking and where? I never had to take a pronunciation exam throughout my college Latin studies

[Anonymous No.19303488]

>>19303416
I did, it was a side thing but it did count toward the grade. Also I noticed it did help the people who took it seriously. I think because it helped to regularise visualisation of the words/inflections.

[Anonymous No.19303526]

>>19303488
>I did
I skipped a semester of Latin through studying on my own, so maybe I skipped a potential pronunciation exam. idk how normal it is. what was the structure of the exam like? the only pronunciation-graded things I had to do were in 4th semester Latin where we were studying Latin poetry. we had a project where we had to recite a poem from one of the poets we studied up to that point.

[Anonymous No.19303662]

>>19302515
I prefer the classical pronunciation, but habits are hard to break. (Try as I might, I find it difficult to think of—of pronounce—familiar words such as "civitas" with the hard C. Also, I feel as though if you pronounce words that people are familiar with—such as "veritas" or "Cicero" or "Caesar," most people would look at you like you're insane or don't know what you're talking about.)

[Anonymous No.19303699]

>>19303266
No matter what I'm going to have enough material to do the assignment. The thought that goes into translation is dense and multifaceted. So you might as well pick the one that's most beautiful.

[Anonymous No.19303892]

Started learning french recently, opens up the Belles Lettres, which seems a great publisher.
Anyway, for the germanons here, Vox Latina (http://www.voxlatina.uni-saarland.de/)) is a magazine published quarterly entirely in latin, which might be fun. It's something along 35€ a year.

[Anonymous No.19303918]

>>19303526
Sounds like we had pretty much the same exam actually, it wasn't a huge deal but it was 10% of the grade or something like that. But we just had to pick a medium-sized passage of poetry and pronounce it properly. The hard part was getting the scansion right, I still don't understand the rules.

[Anonymous No.19303999]

>>19303918
>but it was 10% of the grade or something like that
I don't even think we were graded on pronunciation. I think the important part was that we try to express meaning with our recitation and sound like how we imagine the original poet might've recited it. obviously if you gave 0 fucks on trying to pronounce the words accurately I'm sure our professor would've docked points.
>the hard part was getting the scansion right, I still don't understand the rules
how much practice did you do in class with scansion? I didn't really understand it at first either, and couldn't tell you the exact rules from memory now, but I think if you practice it a fair bit it gets pretty easy. we worked on it a fair bit each week in my class, and I practiced it on my own too. (still had the occasional mistake though.)

[Anonymous No.19304390]

>>19302050
Partly because it's an extremely broad umbrella. I suspect that any literature that stretches over millennia and thousands of miles is going to have a lot of breadth and depth to it.
>>19302515
They did? I didn't think reconstructed pronunciation was really much of a thing until the 19th century.
>>19303662
I don't think there's any contradiction in using the classical pronunciation when reading Latin text, but using the traditional Latin pronunciation of the language you're speaking when citing Latin words or phrases in a modern-language conversation.

[Anonymous No.19304414]

>>19303662
I feel ya. You've got to have two separate modes, Latin and English (or whatever language you mainly use). I know a little German from high school. I say Bur-lin for Berlin, instead of the German Bear-lean, when speaking English. When speaking German, I change. I find Americans who work really hard to pronounce Spanish words when speaking English sickening. If you learn Greek, you will also find this issue immediately apparent. In the word logos, the o's are short, making it law-gawss, not low-gowss. I saw this particular issue illustrated just before I started learning Greek when I heard a troubled autist debate on which pronunciation to use for a substantial amount of time when making a video about a very impressive and also very expensive Bible software. This one video being the first time I heard that pronunciation is a testament to people's ability to use the pronunciation of the language they are speaking at a particular moment.

[Anonymous No.19304439]

>>19304414
Eh? It's pronounced /ˈloɣos/, or /lóɡos/ in reconstructed Classical Attic (but gamma had probably already shifted to /ɣ/ by the time the New Testament was written.) "Law-gawss" seems to suggest /ˈlɔɡɔs/ which to an Ancient Greek speaker would probably sound more like /lɔ́ːɡɔːs/ i.e. λώγως

[Anonymous No.19304446]

Does anyone know where I could obtain copies of Aristotle's and Plato's complete works in the original greek? I've been looking for a while and I can't find it anywhere. I'm out of ideas.

[Anonymous No.19304739]

>>19304446
the texts can be found on Perseus. copy all of them by hand and bind them yourself. it's worth it, trust me.

[Anonymous No.19305424]

>>19304739
Have you done that? What's it like?

[Anonymous No.19305447]

Bilinguiality (or more) is the best possible gift you can give your children. Sure you can get left with some speech impediments, but having another latent language inside you is so based

[Anonymous No.19305563]

>>19305447
>Sure you can get left with some speech impediments
No you can't, what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.19305617]

Any Latinfags into Renaissance and modern Latin? Petrarca, Erasmus, Pontanus. What are some good reads?

[Anonymous No.19305626]

Any Latinfags into Renaissance and modern Latin? Petrarca, Erasmus, Pontanus. What are some good reads?

[Anonymous No.19305640]

Is there a chart like this for classical greek?

[Anonymous No.19305642]

>>19303416
This is Latin II. It is the only time we are being judged on it this semester, and it wasn't very many points. Next semester is poetry, and I am told pronunciation and meter will matter in that class.

[Anonymous No.19305663]

>>19281579
there's no shame in using a dictionary especially for translation, keep your head up anon

[Anonymous No.19305729]

>>19305640
any for this but with english?

[Anonymous No.19305789]

>>19305663
Thanks, fren.

[Anonymous No.19305890]

>>19305642
The most important thing is syllable quanitity and knowing rules of elision. On quantity, it wouldn't hurt to get in the habit of always spelling with macrons.

[Anonymous No.19305914]

>>19305640

[Anonymous No.19305972]

This has been one of the best threads of the past month.

[Anonymous No.19306067]

>>19305640
Is The Gallic War really so easy that you can read it after finishing one elementary text book?

[Anonymous No.19306187]

>>19306067
no. I mean, even in the chart it implies you've gone through at least one of the grammar books, familia romana, colloquia personarum and sermones romani. and even then, if you look at the bottom of de bello gallico on the chart, it says that it has notes and vocab. relatively speaking the way Caesar wrote it is pretty straightforward, but you won't be able to understand a great deal of it just by going through an elementary book - especially one that's mainly grammar-based (i.e., has little input).

[Anonymous No.19306456]

>>19305640
I am right at the beginning of this journey (started about a month ago). I am very excited for my future of reading and writing in Latin. My future in other regards, not so much. I've never had much of a felicity with foreign languages before, but now that I am studying Latin I know it's because I simply hadn't found a language until now (besides English) that I found fascinating. I am finding the reading to not be too difficult, but the writing is harder, and so I am taking great pains to go slowly and make sure that I am learning the language properly.

[Anonymous No.19306473]

>>19306456
>but the writing is harder
what do you mean? being able to use your internal and/or conscious understanding of the language and make coherent sentences/utterances?
>learning the language properly
how are you learning it?

[Anonymous No.19306607]

i'd pulsare it, if you know what I mean
https://youtu.be/0tGK8ASovek

[Anonymous No.19306634]

>>19306473
>what do you mean?

It's a lot easier to see words and understand them than to remember the correct declensions, etc., while writing.

>how are you learning it?

I'm going through each section in Lingua Latina multiple times and using the accompany workbook. I'm going to start using the accompanying volumes—Colloquia Personarum, et ceteri—once I'm far enough along.

[Anonymous No.19306728]

>>19306634
>It's a lot easier to see words and understand them than to remember the correct declensions, etc., while writing.
your recognition is necessarily going to be better than your recall in a language - regardless of whether it's a first or second language. for instance, think about your own native language(s): can you recall at this moment every word you know? no, but you can sure as hell recognize them if you were to read/hear them spoken. have you ever tried recalling all the declensions of a noun and seeing which ones you properly recalled and which ones you didn't? that could help. also just trying to notice the declensions and conjugations of nouns and verbs (to the extent possible in a specific sentence) might help too. (maybe you already do that, but I thought I'd suggest it anyways)
>I'm going through each section in Lingua Latina multiple times and using the accompany workbook. I'm going to start using the accompanying volumes—Colloquia Personarum, et ceteri—once I'm far enough along.
nice. I never went through the workbook personally, but the regular and side LL books are great. are you using the companion book for the grammar?

[Anonymous No.19307380]

>>19306728
>are you using the companion book for the grammar?

I’m mainly just assuming that the more exposure to the language I get the better, and since Colloquia Personarum is recommended as an elementary text to be completed alongside Familia Romana I figured I’d check it out. I’m doing the Familia Romana workbook so I can really drill in the lessons and get comfortable writing. I’m following this schedule here >>19305914

After completing Familia Romana, I am planning on going through Wheelock’s textbook. My strategy here (which is what I do with most things I attempt to get good at) is to really hammer the basics over and over. I know that if I leave gaps in my knowledge at the beginning it will hurt me down the line once I get to the advanced stuff, so I’m trying to be very methodical here at the outset, but that also makes it rather slow going.

[Anonymous No.19307393]

>>19282817
Literally the big book of reddit

[Anonymous No.19307395]

>>19307393
Explain.

[Anonymous No.19307488]

>>19304446
The Oxford Classical texts are the best I have been able to find. A bit pricey though.

[Anonymous No.19308895]

>πτυχὴ Ι
φεῦ φεῦ

[Anonymous No.19310136]

bump

[Anonymous No.19310600]

>>19282465
I'm doing Koine Greek but I don't find it that hard and I'm on my third semester. I have the paradigms memorized which helps a lot. Hebrew is what kills me, but I also was raised with Spanish so Greek is my third.

[Anonymous No.19310831]

>>19281510
can someone recommend any easy texts in greek? i'm nearing the end of my textbook and unsure what i should read next.

[Anonymous No.19310838]

>>19310600
Hebrew and Aramaic are ezpz for me. However, Latin is also quite easy for me.

[Anonymous No.19310850]

>>19310831
After my class finishes the textbook in a couple weeks, we'll start Xenophon. I've heard him cited quite often as an easy author.

[Anonymous No.19310875]

>>19307380
I think I've seen you post this before, and myself and some others suggested that was the opposite of what you should be doing, based on how most students learn. Now that it has been a month or two since that exchange, how's it going? How far are you? How much work have you done? Also, Wheelock might be too simple of a textbook for your approach, although it is my all-time favorite.

[Anonymous No.19310904]

>>19300296
>you have to be more careful of false friends
Ain't that the fuckin truth, man.

[Anonymous No.19310932]

>>19310875
>based on how most students learn
not them, and not trying to come off as a dick, but why would that be a valid reason to learn a certain way? could it not, at least potentially, be the case that most people learn Latin using non-optimal methods? I would actually say imo that most people do, focusing way too much on grammar. I guess it depends on your goal, though, at least to an extent.

[Anonymous No.19311657]

Blessed bread

[Anonymous No.19311997]

>>19310875
That may have been another person, though who knows. I've only been studying Latin seriously for about a month now. It has been slow going (only about 50 pages into Familia Romana so far) because I've been doing each section multiple times and also the workbook. (I study 30-60 minutes on work days, and 30 minutes to 3 hours on days off work, with some missed days here and there.)

[Anonymous No.19312028]

>>19281510
ALERT ALERT ALERT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krNKKZa6VP4

FRESH KINO HAS ARRIVED

[Anonymous No.19312042]

>>19310875
>>19310932

To add to my post here (>>19311997), one advantage of my slow and methodical approach is that I often find myself knowing the answers to questions of declension without even having to think very deeply about it. It just sort of comes automatically. And when I go back and read previous sections, I can sight read easily without looking anything up for the most part. It's my goal to be able to continue like this, because aside from looking up new words, I don't want my experience of reading more advanced Latin to be like constantly solving a puzzle. On one hand this is aggravating because I want to leap forward and know more of the language immediately, but I also understand that this could be detrimental in the long run. I am committed to spending multiple years familiarizing myself with the language. I want to be reading and writing it without having to consciously translate it in my head.

[Anonymous No.19312075]

>>19312042
just INPOOT bro. check out the ad usum Delphinum series which has the original Latin, a paraphrase of the original in easier Latin and a bunch of footnotes in Latin.

[Anonymous No.19312085]

>>19312042
>>19311997
>only about 50 pages into Familia Romana so far
>only been studying Latin seriously for about a month now
I think that's a fine pace. I mainly studied Latin by myself with Familia Romana - though I did do a little bit of conscious grammar study early on - before I took 3rd and 4th semester classes, and I was top of my class. I would take about a week per chapter, going through a section or so each day, go through the chapter's sections again (one each day), and then move on to the next chapter.

I think the main thing is consistency, but also to an extent volume - you don't only wanna be reading 5 lines a day.

[Anonymous No.19312478]

>>19281579
Everyone does. Eventually you'll find your niche that you study (For me it's homeric and anglo-saxon epic) and you'll memorize big ass vocab lists for that. And otherwise absorption through reading helps.

[Anonymous No.19312487]

>>19281877
Yeah Latin is definitely easier, but like this poster >>19281952 was saying I swear on my life I've been doing Greek for 5 years and Latin for 4 and Greek just feels kinda simpler - unless you're reading some asshole like Thucydides, lol.

[Anonymous No.19312501]

>>19282465
I teach Greek as a T.A., and honestly you sound like someone who thought they could coast through Greek because you found Latin easy. And then you hit a wall. Just get over the wall the old fashioned way: memorize vocab, review grammatical concepts, practice translation and composition. Memorizing vocab doesn't just mean making a fucking flashcard btw, it mean actually writing down the full forms and definitions. That means, for nouns, the nom. and gen. sg. forms, with their gender, and their full definition; for adjectives, their nom. sg. form in all terminations; for verbs, ALL of their principal parts and definitions (don't you bitch out on me with those principal parts either son). It gets easier if you do all that.

[Anonymous No.19312509]

>>19282817
Horrible for the absolute beginner; passable for someone with a strong foundational knowledge (i.e. 1-2 years of instruction). Don't think that just because you can read the first couple pages you can read Latin. Every white bitch that thinks she's a "witch" and is gonna use it to "cast spells" gets about that far and gives up. Work your way through Wheelock's first.

[Anonymous No.19312516]

>>19284021
Garbage opinion
>>19283981
Start with Wheelock's intro to Latin

[Anonymous No.19312525]

>>19284311
Stop using fake Greek and fake Latin to prepare yourself for the real thing. If you want easy Greek with good vocabulary to memorize, read Xenophon. If you want the same for Latin, read Caesar. I swear to God every single one of you is like Reddit tier level Greek and Latin learners

[Anonymous No.19312531]

>>19284241
Just get a copy of Mastronarde's Intro to Attic Greek, or Greek an Intensive Study by Hansen and Quinn

[Anonymous No.19312540]

>>19284946
>>19285505
>>19286989
Just read Xenophon faggots

[Anonymous No.19312543]

>>19284837
Use Wheelock's Intro to Latin or Latin an Intensive Study by Moreland and Fleischer

[Anonymous No.19312553]

I can't even read or respond to any more of you absolute faggots. If you want to read easy Greek, read Xenophon on perseus so you can look up the vocab. Same for Caesar. Stop trying to use fucking Athenazde of llpsi to learn these complex ancient languages; get some real fucking textbooks. You're all losers and make the discipline look bad. For the rest who actually know the languages, what up y'all be chill as fuck

[Anonymous No.19312592]

>>19312525
>fake Greek, fake Latin
I mainly used familia romana and aced the final year of Latin in college, transitioning to Cicero, Vergil, Catullus, etc., with not much difficulty. most of my classmates on the other hand, who knew little if anything outside of Wheelock, had to have their hands held for the majority of the assignments and readings.

[Anonymous No.19313004]

>>19312553
are you really gatekeeping language learning?

[Anonymous No.19313279]

>>19312501
I first did Hebrew, then Hebrew + Latin. The next year, I did Aramaic and Greek for both semesters. I got to graduate level Aramaic and was reading manuscripts. Now, I'm doing Latin and Greek. Greek is the only language I've struggled with, granted I have an 85% atm. I did not think I'd coast right through, certainly not this semester, which has been my best semester, compared to two B-'s. I didn't think I'd be able to ever manage Latin after a year off, but with the help of pre-semester tutoring from the instructor, who is also a friend, I am now at over 100% for my grade.
As for how I study Greek, I write all the vocabulary out, verbs once, nouns and adjectives twice, definitions, articles, and all principle parts. Then, I do the Quizlet Learn function. Then, I play Match for a little while. For paradigms, I write them out and chant them. I also chant vocabulary before the tests and quizzes. I spend as much time as I can muster with this soul-crushing language.
I'm doing everything you suggest and more, but it's not enough. I suspect know that it might be the book/professor, since I've had a better time with different instructors, both PhD's and grad students.

[Anonymous No.19313307]

>>19310932
I bring up the fact that anon is going contrary to the common path because if most people are going one way, that way probably works the best. Since people are different from each other, that way isn't going to work for all. It's fine to break rules, but you should know that you are breaking them, when to break them, and why you're breaking them. I'm just stressing the importance of this to the anon. I totally wish him the best. I hope he becomes an excellent Latinist and exceeds his goals, and regardless of how he does that, I think he's going to need a good sense of purpose.

[Anonymous No.19313813]

>>19313279
Are you in a biblical studies program?

[Anonymous No.19314704]

what poet would give me the most pseudpoints from reading?

[Anonymous No.19315216]

What got you into Classical languages? My ambition is to be able to read The Iliad

[Anonymous No.19315226]

>>19301339
thanks for the read

[Anonymous No.19315243]

>>19312509
Dude you're so cringe. Obviously anyone serious isn't going to rely on one book, like anyone serious about learning Spanish ever just uses one book. No. He assembles resources from everwhere. Collects from multiple grammar book. Encounters Latin constantly. Reads speaks prays thinks in latin. The book isn't very important. You just need a skeleton to base your own personal development on and pace you. ESPECIALLY a book with exercises that force you to WRITE. Don't confine yourself to a single method and stop comparing our noble anons to wh*te w*men

[Anonymous No.19315310]

Latin: lingua latine per se illustrata
Ancient greek: Athenaze
Irish: duolinguo ?
Old celtic languages: ?

[Anonymous No.19315434]

>>19315216
romanticizing schizophrenia and getting in to classical metaphysics and neoplatonism

[Anonymous No.19315453]

>>19315434
based and templarpilled

[Anonymous No.19316040]

How is Teach Yourself Ancient Greek?

[Anonymous No.19316100]

>>19313813
I am in a pretty straight classics department that seems to be trying to be more biblical studies. Two of the biblical guys are actually quite famous. I would call myself a classics and biblical studies student.

[Anonymous No.19316266]

>>19316040
I can't speak for Ancient Greek but for Hungarian really elementary. Enough for read basic information in the street and ask for a beer (but as like you seem tourist they will answer you in English). When I completed the book i couldn't understand the hungarian tv or read a book.
When you complete Athenaze or Reading Greek you can.

[Anonymous No.19316523]

>>19315434
>romanticizing scizophrenia
how exactly would that make you interested in classical languages?

>>19315216
I think some part of me (idk how best to describe it, but I think that'll make sense) likes the idea of being an intellectual. not in the sense of Chomsky or something, but being well-verse in some amount of "intellectual" topics. (I realize that's vain, but it's not like I can change my thoughts/feelings in the blink of an eye.) also, though, I do and have for a long time enjoyed ancient Greek and Roman mythology. then later I grew an interest in philosophy and literature, and wanted to understand these philosophers and writers (Plato, Aristotle, Seneca, Descartes, etc.) in the original languages in which they wrote.

[Anonymous No.19316689]

>>19315216
For myself, it's a couple of things. First, I feel that learning Latin and Greek is something that would have been part of a normal education for an educated man a century and more ago, and that this has largely been stripped from us as the quality of education has deteriorated. I have three college degrees. Why was I never required to learn Latin or Greek during the course of my education? There are schools like Columbia University and Brown that still issue diplomas to students that are written in Latin. Why are universities issuing degrees to students in a language that they never taught them? Doesn't this suggest a lapse in educational quality?

Secondly, Latin—perhaps due to its being intertwined with English—is the only language besides English that I've ever found truly fascinating, and learning it has helped me gain a better understanding of English, which is my native language. (Contemporary English is sort of a bizarre hodge-podge of a language, and though I'm captivated by English etymologies, I've started to get a bit bored with the language.)

Finally, I feel that to be ignorant of Latin and Greek means that—as an English speaker, and beneficiary of the western canon—one is only ever semi-literate.

[Anonymous No.19316711]

Found the presentious pseud thread

[Anonymous No.19316722]

>>19316711
>presentious
Shut the fuck up retard and kys.

[Anonymous No.19316747]

>>19316722
Thought so incel

[Anonymous No.19316768]

>>19316711
>Haha look at this nigga learning Latin
>Only at Miller Grove

[Anonymous No.19316841]

>>19316266
Is the Italian Athenaze better? I can read Italian somewhat.

[Anonymous No.19316878]

>>19316841
idk how it compares to the latest English edition, but certainly compared to the 2nd edition it's much better: it has margins like LLPSI which helps with understanding the stories, and there is extra reading that doesn't exist in the English version

[Anonymous No.19316890]

>>19312553
>read all of llpsi (familia romana +supplements +roma aeterna). one of the last supplements is the aneid, unadapted.
>End up with a working vocabulary of 8000 thousands and the ability to use a monolingual dictionary (forcellini).
>Collect latin texts in chronolical order, read only latin for month without ever using cuckglish.
>In three month of arround three hours of daily reading, i've read the whole latin canon in chronolical order, you haven't even finished caesar.
>but llpsi is useless, should have used a grammar so that i could have spend a few hours reading 10 pages of caesar.
kek

[Anonymous No.19316970]

>>19316878
Is it available online with whatever booklets it comes with?

[Anonymous No.19316994]

>>19316970
I'm not sure what you mean. are you asking if you can buy and/or download it online? or are you asking if it has online resources that you can access through the book(s)?

[Anonymous No.19317064]

>>19316994
The former.

[Anonymous No.19317075]

>>19312516
I'm speaking from experience.
>>19312525
'Fake'? Is any instance of a language not written by a native speaker 'fake'? Are half the anons here writing in 'fake' English?
>>19312553
Learning to painstakingly decipher a language into your native language is not the same as actually acquiring it. The way to actually acquire a language is comprehensible input, and those books are good for that.
>>19315216
I started with Classical Chinese, to which I was first exposed via the Japanese kanbun tradition.
>>19315310
Duolingo sucks for several reasons.
>>19316523
>I think some part of me ... likes the idea of being an intellectual ... in the sense of ... being well-verse in some amount of "intellectual" topics.
Honestly you remind me a bit of myself. It's been my ambition to be sort of a Renaissance woman, but I guess hopefully I'll get there if I just keep learning things that interest me.

[Anonymous No.19317102]

>>19317064
you can download pdf versions nullā pecuniā on b-ok or libgen, and you can buy a physical copy on amazon (dot) it. it's actually pretty easy to set up an Italian amazon account, as you don't need an Italian address

[Anonymous No.19317165]

>>19317075
>It's been my ambition to be sort of a Renaissance woman
was that your impetus to learn classical languages, or was there something else about classical languages that attracted you?

[Anonymous No.19317337]

>>19317165
I'm not sure specifically. Probably part of it was just the aesthetic appeal of Classical Chinese.

[Anonymous No.19317374]

>>19317075
YWNBAW. Renaissance man, maybe, but not a Renaissance woman.

[Anonymous No.19317403]

Athenaze / my Greek intro classes are the worst classes I've dealt with. I don't believe in reincarnation, and as such, it's not something that I often think about. But when I think about how painful it has been to learn Greek, I cringe at the thought of having to do it all over, learn it once again in another life. It's quite an unpleasant recurring thought that I've had lately.

[Anonymous No.19317419]

>>19317374
God, you people really do see the transgender bogeyman lurking behind every rock and tree huh? Even on 4chan, there's going to be more cis women than trans women, because even if 4chan is majority AMAB it's not a 300 to 1 majority.

[Anonymous No.19317427]

>>19317337
do you find any writings particularly compelling? I studied Japanese for a few years, and I was mainly interested in the act of learning a language, not Japanese as a tool to understand someone or something, and there were often days - weeks even - when I just wasn't interested in learning.

[Anonymous No.19317431]

>>19317403
Why is that?

[Anonymous No.19317433]

>>19317403
>Athenaze / my Greek intro classes are the worst classes I've dealt with
why?

[Anonymous No.19317442]

>>19317427
Hmm... well, there's a lot of good poetry and philosophy, though I know that's a cliche answer. Even if you don't agree with it all- which I don't- there's plenty of wisdom in the Confucian canon.

[Anonymous No.19317532]

>>19317442
>though I know that's a cliche answer
genuinely not trying to be rude, just genuinely curious, but why did you qualify your answer with that? I'm not judging you, as I sometimes qualify or preface what I say with similar statements (though I do it less than I used to, and wish I didn't feel the need/desire to do so). for me, I think that by acknowledging that what I said/am about to say is a cliche/a commonplace statement or answer, I am lessening or canceling the potential negative view from the person(s) I'm talking to. but part of me thinks "who gives a fuck if what I've said is a cliche/commonplace?" for instance, as I said earlier in this thread, I took up classical languages in part because of the literature. most other people say that too, but why does that make it bad? what else is there that the languages offer? idk, I know I'm rambling, but this has been on my mind for some time.
>there's plenty of wisdom in the Confucian canon
I typically see Confucius shat on in favor of Daoism, so it's interesting to see a (at least somewhat) Confucius supporter. I do want to check out his writings at some point.

[Anonymous No.19317543]

>>19317532
Oh, there's plenty good in Daoism too. I should properly read through the Dao De Jing... probably it'll take a few readings to start to grasp it.

[Anonymous No.19317808]

>>19317419
I was only joking. I thought it was a particularly amusing g opportunity considering the comment on being a Renaissance woman. With my motive in mind, perhaps, that should sway your interpretation of other YWNBAW posters.

[Anonymous No.19317896]

>>19317431
>>19317433
It's very stressful and time consuming. Homework is not fun or fulfilling. In Latin or Hebrew, getting through a sentence or homework assignment feels like an accomplishment, but when it comes to Athenaze, I am just a little further in this shitty story about Dicaeopolis and his family. I didn't translate a simplified version of a real Greek sentence; I translated a shitty sentence made up by mother fucking Maurice. My experience of learning Greek has been completely isolated from the reasons for learning Greek, the Bible and the Classics. To get to where I have gotten, 3.5 semesters, I have needed to maintain an extraordinary constitution. Many students have dropped, but I have kept the faith, as hard as it has been. This is not a matter of me learning a dead language in college for the first time, taking a language class without sombreros and sushi. I also didn't find a hot new girlfriend and get distracted. Therefore, I think the problem is with the way I am being taught.

[Anonymous No.19318035]

>>19317896
>Therefore, I think the problem is with the way I am being taught
what is different about the way you're being taugh ancient Greek from the way you are/were being taught Latin and Hebrew? is it just that it doesn't involve the bible or the classics?

[Anonymous No.19318806]

>>19317896
learn to enjoy the process. the fault is in your head not in you professor.

[Anonymous No.19318966]

>>19316711
t: monolingual

[Anonymous No.19319004]

>>19315243
Your English grammar is atrocious, I can't even muster the will to imagine what your Latin must be like

[Anonymous No.19319008]

>>19316100
Yeah, Aramaic seems out of the place for a classics student but very naturally for somebody studying the Bible.

[Anonymous No.19319031]

>>19317419
Actual women do not care about becoming "Renaissance Women" (whatever that means) lmao

[Anonymous No.19319619]

Good bread

[Anonymous No.19320137]

>>19293890
Notebook? First I’ve heard of it, can anyone elaborate?

[Anonymous No.19320154]

poetry aside, is it true that while more complex for other reasons, ancient/Attic/Koine Greek texts are less syntactically demanding compared to at least a good part of the Latin corpus?
I already know Latin relatively ok enough to slowly read some Tacitus or Livy with the help of a dictionary, and I'm also at part two of Athenaze. I can see why people consider Greek an overall more complex language but what I still find demanding of actual Latin texts is the often hermetic style even in annalistic writing.

[Anonymous No.19320752]

>>19317808
So... what exactly is the intent? Just to project a maximally unwelcoming environment to any trans people who do happen to be present?
>>19319031
Not knowing what the word 'renaissance (wo)man' means says more about you than anything. It's not a rare word.

[Anonymous No.19320767]

>>19320752
The intent is rustle your very real jimmies because your hair trigger sensitivity on 4chan of all places demands it.

[Anonymous No.19320869]

Are there any Latin grammar books that are suitable for learning grammar alongside something like LLPSI? When I learned French I found it useful to approach it like studying English grammar at school, ie clarifying and explaining the grammar I'm already using.

[Anonymous No.19320878]

>>19320869
http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=CB3E667411C897AB3A3D5F7ECD03D7DF
This is a companion book that goes over the grammar used in each chapter in English.

[Anonymous No.19321071]

>>19320752
Nah, I know what the word means, you just failed to properly communicate what that means in your personal context

[Anonymous No.19321244]

>>19321071
It means the same thing it means in ordinary English usage, a woman with broad-based general knowledge and skills.

[Anonymous No.19321269]

>>19320878
Sweet. Not that guy but thanks. I’ve been getting along mostly fine with the textbook and workbook but sometimes have trouble telling what declension is happening if it’s the same as another (ex. Ablative and dative but spelled the same).

[Anonymous No.19321278]

>>19317896
>shitty story about Dicaeopolis and his family
Why you lying? There are intervals between chapters of simplified passages of Herodotus. And if you want to learn faster, why not pick up a graded reader of something and jump ahead? Your attitude towards Greek sucks. It's no wonder you're finding it a pain.

[Anonymous No.19321507]

>>19321278
Yes, there are those passages, but my professor does not permit us to focus on them. Homework consists of a Quizlet, a worksheet, and then the Dicaeopolis story, spread out over days, of course. My spare time is not spent reading such stories. No one in my class does them. Instead, my spare time is spent doing vocabulary, doing paradigms, or relaxing.

[Anonymous No.19321613]

>>19321244
Nietzsche was right, there are no female scholars

[Anonymous No.19321732]

>>19321613
How do you figure?

[Anonymous No.19323167]

.

[Anonymous No.19323439]

>>19320878
Is anyone able to download a workable version of this from here? I've used libgen before but all the ones here are either broken or look sketchy.

[Anonymous No.19324144]

>>19281859
>Anyone read Vitruvius? I feel like no one ever reads Vitruvius. Disclaimer: I have not read Vitruvius, yet.
>Is there something funny about his Latin? He has a Loeb
One issue with Vitruvius is he’s writing on a specialty subject/trade/art, and specialty subjects routinely have their own words, as well as common grammar and words with specialty meanings, making proper translation difficult if not impossible to do at a remove from the era of writing and original trade skills.
A dusl language translation like Loeb is likely best for this reason, since you can view the original latin to try to figure out the meaning if something doesn’t make sense.

[Anonymous No.19324169]

>>19293915
>Also, does anyone have recommendations for bibles? I know there's Biblia Sacra Vulgata, but wasn't sure if there are other versions or what the advantages or disadvantages of them would be.
It’s the bible.
If there is one particular field were you can find a modern edition of practically any text and version of a text, it’s the bible.

[Anonymous No.19324214]

>>19299534
>The red ones are Latin? I’m sort of confused because they still say “translated by” on them. Some people in this thread were sort of poking fun at me earlier for asking if Loeb publishes in Latin, but when I went into a store and looked at some the other day all I saw were English and Greek editions.
The Loeb green covers are Greek/English.
The Loeb red covers are Latin/English.
Harvard also has a few other similar dual language imprints.
I Tatti Renaissance Library, which is made up of Italian Renaissance Latin literature.
Dumbarton Oaks Medieval Library, which has editions of texts originally written in medieval Latin, Byzantine Greek, and Old English, with facing-page translations into modern English. One of the editions is the ‘Appendix Ovidiana’

[Anonymous No.19325210]

>>19320752
>So... what exactly is the intent? Just to project a maximally unwelcoming environment to any trans people who do happen to be present?

Yes. Trans "people" are scheming madmen that, when presented with the opportunity, will conspire together to subjugate the entire community under the yoke of their trans agenda. The trans mafia is an ever-present danger in any online community.

[Anonymous No.19326244]

>learning Latin because that's what you're supposed to do
>far more interested in Greek lit

[Anonymous No.19326325]

>>19326244
>because that's what you're supposed to do
says who?

[Anonymous No.19326658]

>>19326325
because it's the done thing

[Anonymous No.19327232]

>>19282817
I think my HS used this

[Anonymous No.19327420]

>>19325210
Nothing bad comes of merely tolerating trans people lol. I'm sure there are a few assholes just like there are in any group but most just want to live their lives and not be subjected to harassment and discrimination. I would know, I know quite a few.

[Anonymous No.19327434]

>>19327420
Idk it's a bit of a tricky situation. What if kids treat it as a fad and fuck up their hormones or genitals permanently?

[Anonymous No.19327448]

>>19327434
Is there evidence that that actually happens? My understanding is that desistance rates of kids placed on puberty blockers are quite low.

[Anonymous No.19327490]

>>19327448
I dont know if it is common, I'm just saying its inherently a pretty touchy subject.

[Anonymous No.19327529]

>>19327434
>what if kids treat it as a fad and fuck up their hormones or genitals permanently?
some already have. I've read and seen a few stories of desisters myself, and I didn't even go out of my way to find them. I can only imagine how many more are out there that I haven't seen, how many there are that didn't make it online, and how many people *want* to desist but don't (for one reason or another)

[Anonymous No.19327535]

>>19327490
The question is how many of those will there be compared to the number of actual gender dysphoric kids who would be forced to go through the puberty of their natal sex and be fucked up by it.

[Anonymous No.19327819]

>>19327529

[Anonymous No.19328610]

Is Wheelock a grammarfag or an inpootfag? I want a single volume of grammar-heavy instruction to supplement inpoot.

[Anonymous No.19328631]

>>19328610
grammarfag. there's some input in each chapter, but nothing compared to Lingua Latina Cambridge

[Anonymous No.19328637]

>>19328610
The later editions of Wheelock have more texts from the ancients iirc. I vaguely recall my edition saying that in the foreword

[Anonymous No.19328639]

>>19328631
>Lingua Latina Cambridge
*or Cambridge

[Anonymous No.19328674]

>>19328631
>>19328637
Ok, thanks. My plan is to go LLPSI + Wheelock. Then I'll do a quick victory lap over Cambridge to enjoy my hard earned skill, solidify it and check out a different approach (and a different story). Stop me if it's stupid for some reason.

[Anonymous No.19328686]

>>19328674
Sounds fine to me. Its really more about consistency than anything, just putting in work each day. Even a bad course would provide results doing so

[Anonymous No.19328703]

>>19328674
>My plan is to go LLPSI + Wheelock. Then I'll do a quick victory lap over Cambridge to enjoy my hard earned skill, solidify it and check out a different approach (and a different story).
I'm not sure how much if any you've gone through LL, but if you like Familia Romana, I suggest just continuing with the other books in the series. once done with Familia Romana, you can go through some combination of Sermones Romani, Amphitryo Comoedia, Fabulae Syrae, and De Bello Gallico, and then do Roma Aeterna (the second main book in the series). your call at the end of the day, though.

[Anonymous No.19328709]

>>19328703
to add, I'm not suggesting that you *don't* go through wheelock. I think some grammar study is important.

[Anonymous No.19328929]

Who else is studying tonight?

[Anonymous No.19328935]

>>19328674
>>19328703
This is not to dissuade you from also doing Wheelock if you want, but I think you could probably get what you want, just sticking to LLPSI. The "College Companion" has detailed grammatical overviews in English, like Wheelock. (For less drawn-out descriptions, use the Latine Disco book instead.) LLPSI also has quite a lot of exercises besides the ones in the main text in the supplemental workbook (Exercitia). You can get everything Wheelock offers in the LLPSI, and it is enough material to keep you busy. The only reason to do Wheelock in addition, I think, is just that you want to see what Wheelock is like for the sake of experiencing Wheelock. You don't want to stretch yourself too thin.

Regarding the supplemental readers, one correction (or difference of opinion) is that the Colloquia Personarum and Fabulae Syrae are meant to be read concurrently with Familia Romana, not afterward. There is also another supplement called (I think) Fabellae Latinae, which, like Colloquia Personarum, accompanies the beginning chapters of Familia Romana, though Fabellae Latinae is only downloadable, not a published book.

[Anonymous No.19329129]

>>19328929
nah, I usually wake up early and go to the library as soon as it opens

[Anonymous No.19329344]

>>19328929
I study every night in bed with a comfy orange reading light

[Anonymous No.19329481]

>>19281510

How many of you guys are in classics or linguistics? Are you putting all your eggs in one basket for law school or networking with friends for a job? I took ancient Greek while pursuing a CS degree (with a minor in ling), am starting my personal study in Latin. Seems much easier than Greek desu.

[Anonymous No.19330148]

>>19329129
based

[Anonymous No.19330243]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a quick grammar reference book/guide for ancient greek? Is there even such a thing, classics friends?

[Anonymous No.19330668]

>>19329481
I graduated last spring with a bachelor’s in linguistics, but plan on transitioning into classics next fall. I studied Latin in the last two years of my undergrad and have always like Greek mythology and classical philosophy. I’m currently studying Ancient Greek as well, and want to get into a post-baccalaureate program before grad school. not sure if I should pursue anything on the side, though.

[Anonymous No.19330842]

Please help
What does the abbreviations on the left mean?
I'm struggling with this the plural, is it peccatis or peccata?

[Anonymous No.19330905]

>>19330842
Welcome to inflected languages. All the forms on the left are singular, all the forms on the right are plural, they are just grammatically different. Hope that helped. :^)

[Anonymous No.19330932]

>>19330905
Thank you
I know its a pain in the ass to ask but what is the difference between them?
I suppose is the region but is every single form correct?
Thank you

[Anonymous No.19330958]

>>19330932
Nominative is used for the subject of the sentence, dative, accusative and ablative are for objects (you have to learn which one goes with which verb or preposition), genitive marks ppossession or dependence.

[Anonymous No.19330959]

>>19330932
The endings show both the number (singular or plural) and the grammatical role of the word (nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, or ablative).

[Anonymous No.19330981]

>>19330932
Look at the sentences "he attacks the dog", vs "the dog attacks him". He and him are the same word in different cases, he is nominative, the subject, him is accusative, the object.

[Anonymous No.19331033]

>>19330932
they're all correct. as other anons have said, their specific meaning depends on which form is used, and with what words they're used. for instance

>Gen.41-9: ...Confiteor meum peccatum
here 'peccatum' agrees with 'meum', they are in the accusative case; they're the direct object of 'confiteor'. the sentence means "I confess my sin"
>II Mach.6-14:...Dominus patienter exspectat, ut eas cum judicii dies advenerit, in plenitudine peccatorum puniat
here 'peccatorum' is in the genitive plural form. it goes with 'plentitudine'. 'in plenitudine peccatorum' literally means "in an abundance OF SINS"

[Anonymous No.19331125]

>>19330958
>>19330959
>>19330981
>>19331033
Thanks for the help, it was really useful

[Anonymous No.19331980]

for anyone who actually has a high understanding of Greek, is it actually possible to read texts in dead languages at a level where you're able to read close to native ability?

I wanna know if it's possible to reach a point where you can just pick up a text and read without constantly having to pause to look up obscure words you've never encountered before because it's not a language you can converse in or passively listen to and build an expansive vocabulary that way

[Anonymous No.19332005]

>>19331980
I think it's quite possible. I can follow some easy texts in Classical Chinese without much issue.

[Anonymous No.19332016]

>>19331980
I mean, just like reading in your native language, you will always have to seek the aid of a dictionary from time to time. It isn't worth your time trying to memorize words that are only used once by Plato.
For example, and I may not recall this correctly, but if you wanted to understand 95% of Plato, you would only have to need 5k words. If you want to understand 100% of the words he uses, increase that to 35k. It isn't worth your time to commit every obscure word you come across, just the most common. Use this website to extract the most frequent words from any given major author.
https://bridge.haverford.edu/

[Anonymous No.19332247]

>>19331980
This got me thinking. Is it possible to have an inner monologue in Ancient Greek? I'm ESL but thinking in English feels very natural at this point. Is it possible to reach that level by just reading old books?

[Anonymous No.19332327]

>>19332247
Probably, I can't have a coherent inner monologue in Classical Chinese yet but I've occasionally had thoughts spontaneously occur to me in it without another language being involved.

[Anonymous No.19332363]

>>19332247
You can't have inner monologue only knowing to read, you have to be able to speak it.

[Anonymous No.19333970]

.

[Anonymous No.19334170]

>>19333970
this thread is like 5 posts away from the bump limit just let it die and make a new one later

[Anonymous No.19334178]

What are some good books for learning classical Chinese? I want to learn that after I learn Mandarin to study Chinese history.

[Anonymous No.19334205]

>>19334178
https://old.reddit.com/r/classicalchinese/wiki/index