Oswald Spengler Decline of the West

[Anonymous No.19277879]

So I'm about to read this /lit/, what am I in for?

The reason that I want to read this book is because I have a few questions that I want answered, that are extremely relevant to the modern times and the modern new cycle, and quite honestly, it's a topic I barely know anything about.

Is the West really in decline, or is it just an illusion?
In what ways is it declining?
What is causing the decline?
Is there anything we can do about it?

Does he take the view that the decline is inevitable? I mean it might be the truth, but I don't like it. It seems defeatist. I would rather adopt the view that that we should fight to save it, tooth and nail, whatever it takes. I don't believe that with all the people in the west, with everything that we have accomplished, that we are incapable of overcoming this obstacle, like our ancestors did with all obstacles before. Our forefathers dealt with much more dire times, I do not see why there cannot be a change in our spirit in order to do so. I know I'm going to get the "well you're living in it, can't you tell?". Well no honestly, I have no frame of reference except for what I have lived through (2000's), so I have no idea. Things are getting worse (I think). But then I have to think why? Before reading the book, I think one big thing is culture, that we have become complacent and lazy, satisfied by virtual entertainment, dulled to the point where we are almost like zombies. People living for whatever material pleasures will satisfy them, never anything more. We have a short time on this Earth, and alot of it is being wasted with utterly pointless thing. (And yes, I am not missing the irony that I am currently typing a blogpost on a basketweaving forum). Alot of people caring for nothing more then just doing the bare minimum. I don't know how to explain it, but I think that people have lost a sort of fire that used to animate them, and motivate them to something greater. Though I don't know what that is, it's hard to put it into words, it's almost just something that I feel but cannot explain about the reality of the modern day. And then there's also material conditions. But do the material conditions depend on the culture of the people, or does the culture depend on the material conditions? Regardless, I am a midwit zoomer, looking for information about the topic. Recommend books, tell me more about the topic, and I guess discussion thread.

[Anonymous No.19278046]

>>19277879
>So I'm about to read this /lit/, what am I in for?
Extreme autism, going off of my limited skimming experience.
>your four questions
As far as I can tell, TDOTW is a historical and philosophical work, not a socio-political analysis of Western civilisation and its course.
>Does he take the view that the decline is inevitable?
He does, he treats civilisations like living organisms so there is youth, old age and death.
>blogpost
Honestly for some reason you sound exactly like me in 2017. I am going to take this opportunity to shill Evola to you. He's a hard thinker to dive into but he's very rewarding and he deals with the spirit behind a civilisation - something which I have now taken as the highest reference point in my worldview in place of culture which belongs on a lower plane. For me, reading Evola was like having someone articulate all the things I never could. He is even more pessimistic than Spengler, though. Be warned.

[Anonymous No.19278052]

Read this first

[Anonymous No.19278069]

>>19277879
Why don't you read it first, and tell us the answers to those questions?
Why would you ask them before even reading one single page?
I didn't read your thread btw.

[Anonymous No.19278072]

>>19277879
TDotW is the ultimate and final redpill. It's a microscopy of the Western mind. However I suggest you free your mind from the notion of decline. It is the title of the book, but it's more of an implicit conclusion to its content, rather than the subject matter. Spengler's value is in revealing why we as a civilization think the things we do. And never take ideas about decline too seriously, remember it's just some guy's opinion who probably had some personal issues (as Spengler did). Read Schiller and Goethe and take the bloomerpill.

>we have become complacent and lazy, satisfied by virtual entertainment, dulled to the point where we are almost like zombies. People living for whatever material pleasures will satisfy them, never anything more.
This is too simple and convenient an explanation. The first principle of science is impartiality. Those who condemn their own age without seriously engaging in it are blind to its true value. Do onlyfans thots mean the West is in decline? Maybe. But stop and consider the possible reasons, without passing a value judgement, why things today are the way they are. Goethe wrote a poem called Permanence in Change that illustrates the dual nature of time. What is, fades, what fades, is. Spengler himself wrote somewhere that it is beyond the power of any people to maintain greatness for very long.

[Anonymous No.19278075]

The Fate of Empires by John Glubb is similar but is essay/pamphlet length if you want a taster first.

[Anonymous No.19278231]

>>19277879
Just don't read the version in your pic. That's an abridged version. You want the unabridged one

[Anonymous No.19278304]

>>19278046
Which of his works should I start with, I know pic related is literally a guided chart, but I don't feel like following it because not all of these topics interest me. Like magic, hermeticism, eastern stuff, etc. The ones that stand out are: metaphysics of war, pagan imperialism, revolt against the modern world, and then every book after that one. Is it worth it to take the time to read every book in order on this chart? Do you have some personal recommendations?

[Anonymous No.19278310]

>>19278052
Added to my reading list

[Anonymous No.19278324]

>>19278231
Thank you for the warning, I had already downloaded it and was about to start reading it. I honestly didn't even notice

[Anonymous No.19278329]

>>19277879
Decline is subjective, living standards have improved, the biggest threat to the West is Europe becoming an Islamic shithole.

[Anonymous No.19278349]

Spengler deals in ontic bullshit and Goethean goonism. Read late Heidegger instead.

[Anonymous No.19278433]

>>19278304
If you grow to appreciate the rest of Evola's works, eventually you'll like the more mystical stuff too IMO. But anyway, to answer your question. Personally, I would start either with Ride The Tiger, since it takes a very personal perspective, or with Metaphysics Of War because it is a fun and easy book. It is very important to understand Evola's metaphysics in order to properly enjoy this book, though. Unless you can understand the meaning of the Greater and Lesser Holy War and what their function is in various contexts, you won't be able to enjoy it, so it might be better to save the book for later. Personally, I think his collected essays are the best way to start, since they even offer you choice to read the parts you like and skip over the rest. I frequently revisit The Bow And The Club and Recognitions. Orientations is also a good essay that is not included in those collections IIRC. Revolt and Men Among The Ruins are also good books, personally I would say skim through them and read the chapters you are interested in. When you feel that will to, you will end up reading the full books.

[Anonymous No.19278492]

>>19278072
As for why things are the way that they are, I don't know honestly. I don't even know if the west is in decline, as another anon said that it's subjective and that material conditions are improving, which is true. If there even is a decline, then it's not material, but probably spiritual or cultural. I did make a value judgement there. What I said definitely does not apply to all, and virtual entertainment is not a cause, but more likely a symptom of something else.

The more I think about it the more confusing it gets. Is happiness a good indicator of decline? Are people less happy then they used to be, I think yes. But then why, is it an erosion of a sense of belonging and purpose that previous generations had? Is it increasing individualization, like we are becoming atomized as individuals? A destruction of social fabric? How do we define a decline? Is there a quantifiable way to measure decline? Is it happiness? The ability to have a family? What if people don't want to have a family, what if that isn't their goal and purpose? I believe Schopenhauer wrote about the sages that overcame the primal urge for reproduction and lived in isolation as the highest man. Is it relative to other countries in the world? Do we set the bar of success compared to what was previously the standard, or do we set it relative to other countries, especially relevant with the rise of China.

[Anonymous No.19278495]

>>19278492

Part 2 of the post since it didn't fit into one:

I think happiness is a good metric, and no I don't mean hedonism, I mean a genuine feeling of happiness and fulfillment. It was Aristotle who said that pleasure is good for cattle, but that true happiness comes from living a good life. How do we live a good life? Is it by finding a higher standard and devoting ourselves to it? Religion? If it is a cultural decline like I am describing here, what can be done? A change in system? A change in collective thought or perspective? If the East is doing better, then what are they doing better? What could we take from them? I don't want a totalitarian shithole with social credit, I'm not very political, but I know that I do not want that. Is a totalitarian government like theirs more efficient? Is it a loss, are we beginning to realize that individualist societies will inevitably lose to united ones (if this is even true)? But I find that in eastern societies, their types of systems lead the people to lack creativity. Is there anyway that we could have the unity of their systems, with the creativity and progress of ours? In fact, I think many arguments for individualism state that people will choose what is good, and they will drive us forward. But if the people are given the free choice to do as they please, what if they just choose to fuck off and do nothing? In order for an individualist society to function and prosper, they need to be unified. But rather then the unity that is given from living under a totalitarian government, it needs to be a unity that the people themselves create. A motivation to see your country like brothers, and to work for the greater good of all within it. And I know people call these spooks, but is this where nationalism comes into play?

Regardless now I just feel retarded. The big problem I have, is that I have no answers, all I have are a bunch of questions. As far as I know, all of this could be in my head, and we are actually doing excellently. Even worse, it's not even something concrete, I could only describe it as a feeling. Like something is missing, but I think that other generations had it before me, and that is has been slowly disappearing

[Anonymous No.19278506]

>>19277879
That title is the best and worst thing to happen to Spengler's legacy.

[Anonymous No.19278524]

>>19278304
That chart isn't very good. I can understand where the maker was coming from but for new readers I don't think it works.

I'd recommend starting with Revolt. It is the synthesis of all his thought and gives you context for his other writings. Then from there you can branch out to specific books of his that go deeper into the topics that interest you. Though it is a hard introduction, you must get used to the way he writes. Afterwards, most of the books won't be too difficult except the deeper esoteric ones.

[Anonymous No.19278531]

>>19278495
And I feel like I could type paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs trying to explain it, but that it would never quite get there. I feel like it is almost impossible to describe what I am trying to get at. I'm not well educated, I'm not well read (I'm barely read) and I simply lack what is required to explain it. Can I find the answers to these questions in literature? It's just endless questions. Regardless I'll leave it at that for now.

TLDR: I do not know.

[Anonymous No.19278542]

>>19278433
Orientations is included in Handbook for Right-wing Youth. Though you can find a pdf of it separately pretty easily.

[Anonymous No.19278544]

>>19278046
> Evola
Easily dismissed in Spengler as someone who just wants to return to the Classical (specifically, a fake and idealized notion of it).

[Anonymous No.19278547]

Spengler answered many questions for me.

[Anonymous No.19278637]

>>19278542
I have it as a standalone text, I think. Been some time since I last read it. Maybe I should revisit it.
>>19278544
I don't think that's applicable, Evola values clearly defined principles which can be observed at work in any traditional society in any era or geographical area.

[Anonymous No.19278801]

I just started this yesterday

Before reading
>it can’t be as good as /lit/ says
After starting
>this is incredible